How the Sexual Side Effects of Cancer Treatment Led to Entwine Dating with Anna Leonarda | Navigating Cancer TOGETHER

Description

Intimacy after a cancer diagnosis is a topic often left out of the doctor's office, but it is a reality for millions. Host Talaya Dendy sits down with Anna Leonarda, a 9-year breast cancer survivor (as of (6/2022), to discuss the physical and emotional hurdles of intimacy after treatment.

Anna shares her personal path through painful intercourse for most of her adult life, and how the side effects of cancer treatment made it worse. After her divorce, she faced the daunting task of re-entering the dating world while managing these limitations. Her discovery that she wasn't alone led her to create a space that removes sexual expectations from dating.
In this episode, you’ll learn about: managing side effects, the scale of the issue, redefining dating, and more.

✨Episode Highlights:

1. Entwine is a free dating app for those who may not be able to, or prefer not to, fully engage in intercourse.

2. Vaginismus causes a woman’s pelvic floor muscles to contract at the attempt of vaginal penetration, making the vagina narrower and tighter. Learn more. https://www.issm.info/sexual-health-qa/what-is-vaginismus

3. There are 30 million men in the U.S. who have erectile dysfunction.

📱Connect with Anna and the Entwine dating app at:

www.EntwineDating.com

https://www.instagram.com/entwine_dating/

https://www.facebook.com/entwinedating

https://twitter.com/entwinedating

Note: As of January 2026, these platforms may be inactive, but remain a testament to Anna's mission.

About Your Host:

Talaya Dendy, BCPA, NBC-HWC, is a Cancer Doula, Board-Certified Patient Advocate, and Health & Wellness Coach. After her own Hodgkin's Lymphoma diagnosis in 2011, she dedicated her life to guiding others through the complexities of cancer.

Connect & Support:

Visit On the Other Side: https://www.ontheotherside.life
Subscribe to Our Newsletter: https://bit.ly/OTOSNewsletter
Contribute & Support Survivorship: https://givebutter.com/SurvivorSerieswithTalayaDendy

💜If you found this episode helpful, please leave a review on Apple Podcasts and share it with others to help us reach more people navigating cancer.

Hosted, Produced, Written, and Edited by: Talaya Dendy

Disclaimer: The information on this podcast is for general informational purposes only and SHOULD NOT be used as a substitute for sound professional medical advice, evaluation, or care from your physician or other qualified health care provider.

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Transcription

Talaya Dendy_Host
Welcome to the Navigating Cancer Together podcast. My name is Talaya Dindi. I am a 10-year cancer thriver, cancer doula, and owner of On the Other Side. I use my experience to help others get on the other side of cancer. This podcast is about sharing stories, resources, and information about all things related to cancer and wellness. I interview guests from all walks of life, who are living with cancer, caregivers and those who made it on the other side. Also I talk with organizations, healthcare professionals and experts in the health and wellness spaces who offer complementary and integrative care. Join me we are in this together. Hello and welcome to Navigating Cancer Together. I am your host Talaya Dindy Today we have the amazing Anna Leonardo with us today, and she's going to talk about a very taboo topic that we simply need to talk about. Anna is a nine-year breast cancer survivor who resides in Chicago, Illinois with her two children. For most of her adult life, Anna struggled with painful intercourse. The side effects from her cancer treatment only exacerbated her symptoms after she wondered how she would enter the dating world with these sexual limitations. Anna found she wasn't alone and so she decided to create a dating app that takes sexual expectations out of dating. Don't we need that? The app is called Entwine. Anna, thank you so much for joining us today.
Anna Leonarda_Guest
Thank you for having me.
Talaya Dendy_Host
My pleasure. I am so excited to talk about this topic. It's one that causes a lot of people grief and shame. That's why it's so important to just talk about it out in the open, Anna. Please tell us more about your cancer journey.
Anna Leonarda_Guest
Sure. So when in my younger years, my teenage years, I had endometriosis, and that can cause irregular periods, painful intercourse, and heavy periods, cramping, everything. So I dealt with that. And when I became sexually active, I would notice that it painful. So I would go to the gynecologist and she would say, well, just have a glass of wine and relax. You'll be okay. And I'm thinking, okay, I'm married my twenties and intercourse hurts. What am I supposed to do? So I kind of dealt with the pain. And then I went to another doctor a couple of years later and the same thing. I'm like, my libido is diminishing. It's painful intercourse all the time. And I don't know what to do. And the same thing, have a glass of wine, My friends would be like, well, you're maybe with the wrong person. And I met my ex-husband when I was in eighth grade. So I was with one person all my life. So I'm like, well, I'm not going to go cheat on him to find out if that's what the reason is. So I dealt with the pain for a while and I, I had two kids, thankfully my one's 19, one's 14 now, but, and I, over time I kept dealing with the pain and had at least three or four doctors tell me the same thing. Just relax, just relax. one day I just couldn't have intercourse anymore. And prior to that tampons hurt, like why did the tampons hurt? You know, I thought it was normal. I don't want to talk about it with my friends. It was embarrassing. So I just didn't tell anybody. And then, so I was attempting to have intercourse and nothing would go in. And I was like, what's something's wrong with me? It's like hitting a wall. And so I went to the doctor, a new doctor, and she's like, you have vaginismus. And I'm like, what is that? And she said, well, it's the... muscles in your vagina are involuntarily spasming and it's causing you not to be able to have sex anymore. So I thought, I don't know what the heck that is, but okay. What was the treatment? And she said, well, you have to go to a vaginal therapy or she called it pelvic floor therapy. I'm like, there's therapy for vaginas. You know, I was like, like what? So, and another thing was I was surprised that no one after all those years, I've been going to a doctor and no one ever suggested, why don't you go see a pelvic floor therapist? Right. It could have been, it could have been fixed before it got worse. So when I went to the doctor or to the therapist, I said, why does this happen? And she said, well, here's an example. If somebody came up to you and they punched you in the stomach and every time they saw you, they would punch you in the stomach. Eventually you would just back up tense up and just avoid that. And then the anticipation of pain. So that's what my vagina is doing. So I said, so my vagina broke. That's what I tell everybody. My vagina broke. So, and, and, Not that it's really broken. I mean, it is fixable. There is treatment for it. So there was supposed to be something where I use dilators or five different sizes. You're supposed to insert it for dilators. The size of a pinky is a size one and you leave it in there for 10 minutes a day until there's no pain. And then you take the new move up to the next size. You just keep graduating to up as far as you need to go. The one, the size five was like size. I call it Godzilla size. It was enormous. I don't even know why they create something that large, but so, so yeah, I did the therapy, but then it was just slow, slow process. I would start, you have to be consistent. I wasn't consistent. So. I, then I was in the shower. I was 36 years old and I found a breast lump. So I thought, well, it's probably nothing. I don't have any cancer history. I'm only 36. Just nobody in my family. I don't even know any friends that have cancer. So I thought, well, let me get it checked out. And that's what I did. And I found out I had breast cancer and I didn't realize it, but I had three tumors on my left breast, which was very shocking to me because again, I didn't, I felt like I, I felt healthy. Okay. I thought I looked normal, but I really had tumors inside of me and I couldn't believe it. So my breast cancer was estrogen positive. So the goal was to get rid of all the estrogen in my body. So I went through, I had one side of mastectomy, eventually had a double mastectomy and a total of six surgeries for reconstruction and seven surgery with a, for a total hysterectomy. And I also went through chemotherapy. So I lost all my hair and because estrogen got positive, the goal was to force me into menopause because we don't want any estrogen in my body. So I remember going to the oncologist and he's like, well, when you do this, when we're treating this, we're getting rid of the cancer. In order to do that, we need to get rid of all your estrogen. So you're going to have vaginal dryness. You're going to have lack of libido and it's probably going to be painful intercourse. And I just stared at him. I'm like, I don't think I could get any worse than, you know, cause I've been dealing with this. I never enjoyed sex because it was it was always painful. So I'm like, now it's going to get worse. So, and it did the pain was just like, I mean, not that I even didn't even attempt to do intercourse, but even just try and use my dilators even after the cancer was just like, it hurt too much. And I go back to size one and, and it was such a slow process in the vaginal. So I remember going to the oncologist and I told him, you know, what are the side effects of the chemo? And he's like, well, your breast cancer is estrogen positive. So the goal is to get rid of all your estrogen in your body. and it can cause painful intercourse like a libido and vaginal dryness so I thought well it can't get any worse than that and it sure did so I was pretty uh I mean intercourse was still impossible but even just to use the dilators it was something that I just didn't want to do anymore because it was just I just went back to size one and and uh it was just frustrating it was very frustrating so I'm like okay I took my breasts my uterus is gone I have no sex drive it's and then I'm married, you know, so I'm married for 20 years. And, and I thought, what am I supposed to do? You know, there's other forms of being intimate, but it's just, you know, could of course affect any relationship. But so then I did end up getting divorced after a 20 year marriage, not because of that, but there was other reasons. But so then I thought, what am I going to do? How am I going to date anybody? No one's going to want to be with me. I can't have sex. And just the thought of using the dilators just gave me anxiety. I don't want to use the dilators for somebody else. I want to use it for myself. So it is treatable. I just chose not to treat it anymore. But I thought, you know, it's easier just to stay single. And then I started thinking about like, why did I go through this? There's a reason why I got breast cancer. There's a reason why I had endometriosis broken vagina, the vaginismus and then the cancer. And what is it? And I'm like, this must be something I need to help people like myself that are alone and and wonder, or they're intimidated by traditional dating apps. And I thought, wait a minute, what do guys do that have erectile dysfunction? They have ED. Do they go on regular dates? Do they use regular dating apps? And I found that they do. And my friends would go on regular dating apps with these guys and maybe like the first, second, third date in, the guys will be like, they're in their thirties. And they said, well, I have erectile dysfunction. I'm on, I have diabetes that caused it. I have prostate cancer. I have PTSD, I'm on antidepressants. It's like all these different reasons of why they have erectile dysfunction. And I was like, did you save their number? Because that would be like a perfect mate for me is to have a guy that can't have intercourse. So I thought about that. Again, what kind of pressure those guys have? They would go on these dates and they're probably wondering, when am I going to tell the person that I'm dating that I can't have intercourse? Are they going to reject me? Are they going to embarrass? They're going to, I'm not going to get embarrassed. Are they gonna make fun of me? Who knows what it is? So are they staying single because they're scared and they don't want to be embarrassed anymore? So then I thought, you know, there was true. There was, I started doing research. There's. 30 million men in the U S to have rectal dysfunction and worldwide is approximately 320 million men. So I thought this is a huge problem, but nobody's talking about it. So, so I thought, how do I get these, connect these individuals that have these limitations? How do I connect them in a comfortable, safe environment so that they don't feel like they're going to be rejected and it could just be themselves regardless of their limitations. And so that's why I decided to create a dating app that takes sexual expectations out of, dating and it creates a safe place for individuals like myself that do have limitations to find companionship in a nonjudgmental way so that they don't have to worry about being rejected or embarrassed or having to wonder when should I tell that person that I can't have intercourse and are they going to break up with me or leave me or cheat on me, whatever it is. So I didn't realize how taboo the topic was. I mean, I guess I never talked about my sexual dysfunction until Now I walk around and I'll probably get a shirt that says my vagina is broken. Ask me what that means. But, um, but even just yesterday I was talking to this gentleman and I told him about my app and he's like, what kind of app is this? I told him, you know, explain it to him. And he admitted to me, he's like, you know, I have, I have ED, I have erectile dysfunction and, and I, I don't want to date anybody. I'm scared. And I'm like, well, this app is for you then. He's like, you know, I had, he had open heart surgery and he said he can't take it. Viagra or whatever kind of medication that would help with his ED because it can cause heart problems for him, high blood pressure. So he's, so it was just like, I love not that I wish anybody to have sexual dysfunction, but I love when, when people are like, I'm vulnerable as it is, you know, telling everybody my situation for them to come open and be like, Hey, I have this too. And it's like, Oh, you know, so it's, it's, it's definitely a needed app and, and, It just launched the end of August of 2021. And I have a whole hundred users. I was so excited two days ago, I reached 100. And of course it's not a ton, but when I didn't have any before.
Talaya Dendy_Host
Yeah.
Anna Leonarda_Guest
And since it is a taboo topic, it's very difficult to get the word out. So I'm trying to use social media, I'm trying to join podcasts and it's, but it's all worth it because I feel like, like I said before, you know, I feel like I went through this cancer journey and all the other. sexual dysfunction that I had all my life for a reason. And it's to help these individuals that are lonely and possibly depressed, and they just gave up, they can't date anymore. But there is someone out there that will love them just the way they are.
Talaya Dendy_Host
And that's so true, Anna. And I'm so happy that you created this app because there are so many people that are struggling and suffering in silence. And these are things that we need to talk about. We're all human. And at some point we're going to have some kind of, you know, issue that we'll have to work through with our health. And, um, you know, a lot of times when we are getting cancer treatment or other forms of treatment, like for diabetes, it's almost like a give and take. It's like, okay, in order to treat this problem, we have to create this problem.
Anna Leonarda_Guest
Right.
Talaya Dendy_Host
And, you know, it's unfortunate, but having something like your app in place to help people that, you know, have to go through those things and suffer from those side effects is so important. And one thing that I was thinking about is, well, you know, if you take the sex out of it, when you're meeting someone, you know, and getting to know someone, have you found that it has brought people closer together?
Anna Leonarda_Guest
I think that I haven't had any success stories in the app yet. I just got an email today of people thanking me for the app because they're saying they've been lonely for 15 years and finally they're able to date again. But I found that some people crave the emotional connection rather than the physical, and that's how I am. Like I get more emotionally attached to somebody than physically. And of course, I like the other forms of intimacy and kissing and cuddling and hugging or whatever. And I also that I actually know personally. And when I said, you're on my app, and I was surprised because they're my friends. And I'm like, why are you using my app? I didn't know you had sexual dysfunction. And they said, we don't or I don't because the reason I'm on your app is because I don't want to go on those traditional dating apps because that's all the guys want or the girls want, it's all they want. And I wanted to be with somebody for that emotional connection rather than the physical. And I was like, wow, this app is for anybody.
Talaya Dendy_Host
Yeah.
Anna Leonarda_Guest
Even if you can have intercourse and you're okay with not having it, and you want to have that emotional connection. And it might be even more intense than, you know, so it's... That was nice to see that there's people on there that just want to be with someone because of emotional rather than the intercourse physical part of it.
Talaya Dendy_Host
I think that's so important because, you know, there could be people that, you know, have STDs or something like that, that, you know, they don't want to date anymore. And they're like, well, I have to stay single for the rest of my life because I have this thing that, you know, is now... not really, it doesn't define you, but it's something that they would have to, you know, get out there and talk about if they're dating and share with someone that they choose to be intimate with. I could see your app being a great app for those people as well, because everyone that's getting on the app, I'm assuming is understanding that the focus is not on sex. It's, it's really about coming together and getting to know one another.
Anna Leonarda_Guest
Exactly. Yeah.
Talaya Dendy_Host
I love that.
Anna Leonarda_Guest
And of course, all intimacy is not off the table. It's just intercourse is something that may be possibly when it may not happen. Maybe they both have sexual dysfunction and when they meet, they might decide at the same time to treat their sexual dysfunction. So maybe there's a guy that doesn't want to use penile injections or doesn't want to put a penis penile implant. There's all these options for the guys that maybe they don't want to do the treatment, they'll decide, well, let's work on this together. I mean, we can make this, you know, do the therapy together or whatever. So it's that I can't wait to hear the stories that are going to be start coming in and just, you know, stuff like that, or just even just saying like, you know, people have been single for so long and now they finally found someone that just understands them.
Talaya Dendy_Host
Right. And I'm interested too, to hear more about that. And so you can always come back on the show, you know, cause that's, what helps people to feel like they're not alone is to say, hey, you know, this person went through the exact same thing and they were able to find love. And so sharing those kinds of things are so important. One thing that I'm very curious about, Anna, is when this idea came to you about creating the app, who did you initially share your idea with and what was their response?
Anna Leonarda_Guest
That's a good question. I don't remember who I told. I was very scared to tell anybody because I didn't want someone to be like, that's a stupid idea. You know? So I, I remember telling my ex-husband about it and because he's a, he's a CFO. So he, when I, I remember going up to him with my piece of paper cause I was a stay at home mom before. And I worked part time at a doctor's office as a medical transcriptionist. So I'm like, Oh my God, I'm crazy. What am I doing? What am I doing? I'm, um, I'm about to tell him, I was like kind of nervous. So I'm like, so I thought of this idea and he's just like, this is brilliant. He's like, why did you think about this before when we were married? I'm like, well, because I didn't think about dating, you know? So, so then, and initially I'm very, very shy and lack confidence or I did now I'm just like, watch out. I'm a badass bitch, everybody.
Talaya Dendy_Host
That's okay.
Anna Leonarda_Guest
So, Um, but that's what I needed. I needed people to say like, this is a great idea. This is genius. Cause I, I didn't know. I'm like, I don't think this is a good idea. I think this is over my head. I don't know what I'm doing. So I'm kind of winging it and learning how it does. I go, I don't have, I'm doing this all on my own. I funded this on my own. I got taken advantage of by my first app developers. I almost gave up, but what I would do is when I got discouraged and I thought, okay, you know, I'm not gonna be able to do this. I want to be able to afford it. Then I would talk to somebody about it and then it'd be like, oh my gosh, that's such a great idea.
Talaya Dendy_Host
You know?
Anna Leonarda_Guest
That's genius. And then when I keep hearing that, I'm like, you're right. It's right. You're right. You're right. This is needed. And some people are like, oh, you're going to be rich. Like, I don't care about the money. I think I'm going to feel rich with people telling me, like the emails I'm already getting, this app is amazing. I'm going to finally meet somebody that I've been single for 15 years, or this man had something called Peyronie's disease. where it's abnormal curvature of the penis. And, and he said that he's been single for so long because he says he feels like a fraud to these women because we'll go, we'll go on these dates. And then after like a third, fourth date in, he'll say, I have Peyronie's disease. I can't have sex. There was painful intercourse or whatever it is. And then he said, these women just like, you know, kind of like look at me, like I'm, you know, I have two heads and then just like, they just don't want to talk to me anymore. Now with your app, it gave me hope I could to go on just assume that maybe I can't have intercourse. And then down the road, they can tell them what their limitations are if they wanted to, but it could be even sexual trauma. There's just so many different, that demographic is just, there's a lot of people I need to reach.
Talaya Dendy_Host
That's a little overwhelming. That's true. And, you know, people that have, you know, gone through cancer treatment or, you know, had a hysterectomy for anyone really, like you just said, it offers hope that, you know, there is life after that experience that I went through. Sometimes you feel like, well, I had to give up this to be alive, or I had to do this particular thing to be alive and. You felt like you've given up so much already, but then to see an app like this that gives you hope and say, you know what? I could still get out there and potentially meet my future partner. And so it's needed. So keep going, Anna. Keep doing what you're doing.
Anna Leonarda_Guest
Thank you.
Talaya Dendy_Host
And I just want to applaud you for stepping out there and talking about something that is taboo or people... are kind of hesitant to talk about it because the way sex is portrayed today in society and on TV, but there's so much more to it. And I think that's what your app is saying that, Hey, there's way more than the physical aspect of it. And I think that's important to share as well.
Anna Leonarda_Guest
So after I got divorced, I started going out and meeting new people and, and I wanted to kind of test to see how would it be if I was going to go on a date with somebody? How would that conversation What I would do is if I would meet somebody and the guy would like, Hey, you want to go out? I'm like, let me tell you about this app. I created in this, this condition that I have. So some of them are just extremely insensitive and it just reminds me of why I need to create this app. So, so I'll tell a guy, I can't have sex. And he goes, Oh, that's okay. You have other holes. You know, I heard that three or four times already. And then, or you have, what about anal? It's like, you haven't even bought me a steak dinner yet. And you're asking me if I want to do anal, you know? So I was like, So then, you know, or you have the perfect reason why a guy wouldn't want to be with you or don't ever date anybody or be with anybody. Cause you'll never make them happy. It's like, so I thought there, I'm like, wait a minute, I can handle that. I'm not crying. And, you know, but if somebody hurt, here's that initially they may never want to date again. They're never going to tell anybody about their condition. But for me, I'm just like, this is just a reminder to me as I say, this is needed. Cause there's people out there that have heard all this horrible insensitive comments and I feel like this is their answer is that the Antoine app is that for them. So no, the cards are on a table right away. Intercourse may not be a possibility if that's a problem with you and you need that in a relationship, then don't use my app.
Talaya Dendy_Host
Well said, well said. Anna, you touched on erectile dysfunction. One thing I wanted to ask you is if someone suddenly has ED, what do you suggest they do? Like, you know, what are some of the warning signs or underlying underlying conditions that
Anna Leonarda_Guest
I was learning recently that erectile dysfunction, if somebody just thought of sudden has it, it could be a warning sign. It could be something where they're, they have clogged arteries or about to have a heart attack. They could be having a stroke soon. It just, so if you do find, if there is a guy out there listening or somebody's partner that knows that they're going through this, have them get checked out because it could just be as simple as maybe your blood pressure's off. It doesn't mean that it's cancer right away. It doesn't mean that it's inevitable that, you know, you're always going to have erectile dysfunction. It just could be a warning sign too. So just get it checked out. Don't be embarrassed. The doctors hear about it all the time. So just get it checked out and hopefully, you know, again, it's an easy fix and it's not the end of the world just because you have prostate cancer. It doesn't mean you're going to have permanent ED erectile dysfunction. You're going to, there's other, it's a bunch of treatment out there. My app, some people say it's a dead end app, but it's actually not because it's, there's treatment for men and this treatment for women, and they don't have to do the treatment. So if they don't want to do the treatment, then they use my app. So it's not, that doesn't mean that it's a dead end because I have treatment. I just don't want to, don't want to use it. I just want to do it. But it seemed with the breast cancer too. If, if I found my lump, I got checked out right away. If I waited a few more months or who knows how long I wouldn't be here anymore because it wasn't a fast growing tumor of fast going cancer aggressive and And so anybody out there that does find anything abnormal, something's not right. Just get it checked out. Don't wait. Don't procrastinate because early detection is key for a lot of different conditions or anything that any new symptoms that come up.
Talaya Dendy_Host
Great advice. Thank you. Anna, please share with us how the app works and where they can find it. Of course.
Anna Leonarda_Guest
Sure. If they go to entwinedating.com that's E N T W I N E. dating.com they can download the app for free it is a free app on broad they'll have some premium features available where you'll be able to see who liked you and so you can kind of like interact with them that way so when they go on the website and they download the app they can just put in their, their information, their basic information, their birth date and their, their location. And it will have a heart and a little X next to the picture underneath the picture. And then you can hit hard if you like the person X, if you don't. And then if they like you back, then you'll be able to message them and have a conversation to decide if you would like to meet in person or not. But right now it's like pretty basic app just because it is self-funded. So there's not too many filters in there. So there's not, you don't have to disclose what your limitations are. Even if you have any limitations, you may not even have sexual limitations, but you can put a little information as what would you do for hobbies and everything, but, but you do not have to tell anybody what your limitations are until you meet them. Then it's up to you. So there's no pressure there either.
Talaya Dendy_Host
Wonderful. I like that because everybody is coming on the app for pretty much the same reason in some form or fashion. So why make it initially something that you have to share up front, get to know people. And again, that's another example of this app kind of encourages people to get to know each other first. That's what I like about it. I like that.
Anna Leonarda_Guest
Thank you.
Talaya Dendy_Host
Because like you said, I've heard stories of how some of the other apps work and how things can go bad quickly. And it's like, because we need to get more back to human connection and emotional connection and taking the time to get to know each other because in my mind that's a form of healing too because so many people are are suffering from that it's
Anna Leonarda_Guest
true there i mean even i'm an erectile dysfunction group on support group on facebook and i saw a gentleman post on there i don't know why i'm living anymore No woman will ever want to be with me. I have, I have ED. And then there was other people commenting and saying like, you know, this is a common thing about for veterans that they're, they have PTSD, they have sexual dysfunction and they're suicidal. And they find out like weeks before they committed suicide, they found out that they were actually talking to the therapist about how they're lonely and depressed because of their sexual dysfunction. It's like, I got to reach veterans. I got to reach urologists. You got to reach cancer centers just to see that comments. It's like, oh my gosh, this is heartbreaking. Like just people that are suicidal and they just think there's no hope. And so if they have to hear about my app and it's like I said, it's free. I got to get the word out as quickly as I can. So that's why I'm grateful that you had me on your show to allow me to talk about my story and my app and increase awareness and try to end the taboo or the stigma of sexual dysfunction.
Talaya Dendy_Host
I think it's so important because it's something that unfortunately can have a huge impact on on women for sure, when they go through cancer treatment and men, other kinds of treatment, as you mentioned. And sometimes I've heard stories where people have agreed to have a certain type of cancer treatment, but their healthcare team or their doctor didn't share with them that it could potentially affect their sexual life and abilities. And then they're left wondering, well, what is going on with me? And, you know, maybe they didn't freeze their eggs so that they could have children later because they weren't told that, you know, the treatment could have an effect on them like that. There's so many different things going on. Lack of information, lack of correct information, simply not talking about things, lack of education. Could you please say it for me?
Anna Leonarda_Guest
Vaginismus.
Talaya Dendy_Host
Vaginismus. I never heard of that before.
Anna Leonarda_Guest
I didn't either. Okay. And it's like 7,000 women in Facebook support group that have it. And I just couldn't believe it. I'm like, I'm not alone. Didn't know it.
Talaya Dendy_Host
I've never heard that word before. And I'm just like, wow, we need to know about these things. You know, even if we're not going through it, maybe one of our friends are or one of our family members and just hearing from you and hearing about the psychological effects that it could have on people. It's important that we know about these things. We don't have to be well-versed on them, but we need to know that they exist.
Anna Leonarda_Guest
Right. And there's this thing when I talked to some guys about the app, they're like, they asked me, do you know any of your friends that have sexual dysfunction? No, no, we don't talk about that. I'm like, well, yeah, I know you don't. You know, that's what it is. Like, I think women kind of are a little bit more vocal about it. And I actually met a girl a couple of weeks ago. She was about to get married and I told her about my app and she goes, She goes, you know what I have, it really hurts when I have sex too. And I said, did you go to the doctor? She's like, yeah, I did. And she just told me to have a glass of wine and just to, you know, I just, just too nervous. I'm like, oh my gosh. And she's like, I'm actually bleeding when I have sex. And she told you to have a glass of wine. So I told her we exchanged information. I said, I'm not a doctor obviously, but just go to a different doctor and talk to them about it. Cause that's not, that's got to stop too. This, you know, have a glass of wine and relax. If you're... someone comes up to you and says, this hurts or tampons hurt or whatever. Don't just blow them off. You know, it's just sad that it's actually healthcare professionals that are saying to have a glass of wine. Okay. I'm just going to get drunk. And then you can have sex, Anna.
Talaya Dendy_Host
Yeah. That's, that's odd. Especially if a person is bleeding, that's major, I would assume. Right. You talked about pelvic floor therapy. Where would you recommend people start with getting more information about that?
Anna Leonarda_Guest
I know there's... there's a lot of like, if you go to your gynecologist, you should be able to ask them, who should I go to for pelvic floor therapy? I know there's even websites out there. I'm not sure if there's any specific ones, but they can go on there and type their city and state, and they can find their closest pelvic floor therapists in the area. And they can at least examine them and just find out if they have even a condition, you know, so instead of just getting blown off and getting instructed to get what kind of wine to get at the store.
Talaya Dendy_Host
Yeah, that's bizarre. and unacceptable quite there. It has to be done better than that. I just want to thank you for opening up and talking about this because like you and I, I'm sure there's other people that have never heard of that before, or they know people who have erectile dysfunction, men out there. Anna is someone that is willing to support you. She has the app to support you. I'm glad that you brought this to the show, Anna, because there's one thing that for sure. And there's a lot of men out there that don't want to ask for help. You know, they don't want to be viewed as weak or unmanly. You're a great example that there are people out there that are not judging you. And there are people out there that want to help you so that you can live your best life and be happy. On that note, Anna, is there anything else that you'd like to share?
Anna Leonarda_Guest
I would like to also say, if you are somebody that is going through this and you have have been alone just realize that you, there is someone out there that will understand your, your sexual limitations and you do deserve to be loved and nothing is ever worth ending your life over. So just get the help you need and check out my website. And I hope that you can report back to me and just give me a successful story of, of meeting somebody that that's just the love of your life. Just, I just, I just want to change so many people's worlds. I know that there's a lot out there that are silently struggling.
Talaya Dendy_Host
Thank you, Anna. That's so important. I just can't say it enough. There are people like Anna out there that have resources and her app where she can help you through this. So please don't suffer through this alone. Anna, before we end today, I'd like to ask my guests two questions. And the first one is, what is something that you've learned in life that you would like to share with the listeners?
Anna Leonarda_Guest
I would say to always seek out a second opinion because I did not get a second opinion. I was in a hurry. I trusted everybody. I trust everybody. I changed that lately, but just get a second opinion because I was supposed to have some reconstruction surgery that was going to be horrific. And I trusted my gut and just went to a different doctor and I was scared to. And I don't know what it was, but I just didn't want to get a second opinion. I want that doctor to think bad of me because, so if there is something you're going through with some kind of medical diagnosis, it doesn't hurt to get a second opinion. That's something I definitely wish I, if I went back to my first time diagnosis, I would have definitely reached out to a number of plastic surgeons instead of just sticking to the one that was super arrogant and confident. Great advice, Anna.
Talaya Dendy_Host
There's nothing wrong with. with getting a second opinion, actually it's in your best interest. And I think a lot of people, Anna, feel the way that you mentioned that, you know, Hey, I'm betraying my doctor. It's just that you are just seeking more clarification. You're, you're looking to see if there's a different perspective, a different option that's advocating for yourself and taking care of yourself.
Anna Leonarda_Guest
That's right.
Talaya Dendy_Host
And finally, Anna, what is next for you?
Anna Leonarda_Guest
Well, my... App is actually only available right now initially in the U.S. So my goal is to have it available worldwide. I hope that's soon because I already had people from Canada, UK, Australia, India, asking me, when is this app going to be available in my country? So that is one of my ultimate goals is to do that where it's available to everybody, because I don't want to tell anybody, no, it's not available in your country, but hopefully soon.
Talaya Dendy_Host
Wonderful. And besides your website, if people want to connect with you or learn more about you, would you like to mention any other? social media sites or anything like that, where they can find you? Sure. Thank you. They can reach me on Instagram at entwine underscore dating, and then also Facebook and Twitter at entwined dating. Wonderful. And I will include that information in the listen notes. Please look Anna up, especially if you or someone you know is struggling with sexual dysfunction or any of the other conditions that Anna mentioned. Just it's important to number one, know that the help and support is out there. Don't limit yourself. Don't be afraid. You can't go wrong just learning more about the app and giving it a try. And I want to thank you so much for joining me today.
Anna Leonarda_Guest
Thanks again for having me.
Talaya Dendy_Host
My pleasure. And listeners, it's so important that we have these conversations. I just can't say that enough. And I want to again applaud Anna for being vulnerable, talking about a very private and it could be a tricky subject to talk about. And so use Anna as an example that it's okay to share the things that you're going through and struggling with because it can help someone else. Anna, I just wish you the best with everything. Thank you very much. You're welcome. And before we end today, I'd like to give a shout out to the listeners. That is it for this Wednesday. Thank you so much for joining us. And until next time. Let's keep navigating cancer together. Take care. Thanks for listening to this episode of Navigating Cancer Together. I hope you enjoyed it. Please be sure to subscribe. And if you appreciate the show, drop a positive rating and review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. For notes from the show, visit ontheotherside.life and check out the podcast section. After you check out the show notes, head over to my gift shop and show yourself or someone special in your life some love with gifts of encouragement, hope, and positive affirmations. I would love it if you joined us for the next episode. Talk to you soon.

About Navigating Cancer TOGETHER

Upon receiving a cancer diagnosis, the patient typically faces many challenges, including feeling confused, overwhelmed, and alone. All of them are emotionally draining!

Join cancer thriver and cancer doula Talaya Dendy, BCPA, on Wednesday for a dose of inspiration, information, and connection on Navigating Cancer TOGETHER as she shares her cancer journey with raw vulnerability and practical advice as someone who’s been there. She also interviews guests from all walks of life who have been impacted by cancer and are passionate about sharing their patient, thriver, and caregiver experiences to help listeners navigate their unique path TOGETHER. Wellness champions and specialists promoting holistic approaches to care are also welcome to share their expertise on offsetting the pesky side effects of treatment.

Tune in to hear raw and honest conversations, true stories, and valuable perspectives on the hidden struggles no one talks about, emotional rollercoaster, and the quiet victories of a cancer journey. Each episode contains powerful information to help you navigate cancer more easily, feel hopeful, and be better informed.

Listen and subscribe now to navigate cancer TOGETHER!

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

About Navigating Cancer TOGETHER

Upon receiving a cancer diagnosis, the patient typically faces many challenges, including feeling confused, overwhelmed, and alone. All of them are emotionally draining!

Listen and subscribe now to navigate cancer TOGETHER!

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Description

✨Episode Highlights:

1. Entwine is a free dating app for those who may not be able to, or prefer not to, fully engage in intercourse.

3. There are 30 million men in the U.S. who have erectile dysfunction.

📱Connect with Anna and the Entwine dating app at:

www.EntwineDating.com

https://www.instagram.com/entwine_dating/

https://www.facebook.com/entwinedating

https://twitter.com/entwinedating

Note: As of January 2026, these platforms may be inactive, but remain a testament to Anna's mission.

About Your Host:

Connect & Support:

Visit On the Other Side: https://www.ontheotherside.life
Subscribe to Our Newsletter: https://bit.ly/OTOSNewsletter
Contribute & Support Survivorship: https://givebutter.com/SurvivorSerieswithTalayaDendy

💜If you found this episode helpful, please leave a review on Apple Podcasts and share it with others to help us reach more people navigating cancer.

Hosted, Produced, Written, and Edited by: Talaya Dendy

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Transcription

Talaya Dendy_Host
Welcome to the Navigating Cancer Together podcast. My name is Talaya Dindi. I am a 10-year cancer thriver, cancer doula, and owner of On the Other Side. I use my experience to help others get on the other side of cancer. This podcast is about sharing stories, resources, and information about all things related to cancer and wellness. I interview guests from all walks of life, who are living with cancer, caregivers and those who made it on the other side. Also I talk with organizations, healthcare professionals and experts in the health and wellness spaces who offer complementary and integrative care. Join me we are in this together. Hello and welcome to Navigating Cancer Together. I am your host Talaya Dindy Today we have the amazing Anna Leonardo with us today, and she's going to talk about a very taboo topic that we simply need to talk about. Anna is a nine-year breast cancer survivor who resides in Chicago, Illinois with her two children. For most of her adult life, Anna struggled with painful intercourse. The side effects from her cancer treatment only exacerbated her symptoms after she wondered how she would enter the dating world with these sexual limitations. Anna found she wasn't alone and so she decided to create a dating app that takes sexual expectations out of dating. Don't we need that? The app is called Entwine. Anna, thank you so much for joining us today.
Anna Leonarda_Guest
Thank you for having me.
Talaya Dendy_Host
My pleasure. I am so excited to talk about this topic. It's one that causes a lot of people grief and shame. That's why it's so important to just talk about it out in the open, Anna. Please tell us more about your cancer journey.
Anna Leonarda_Guest
Sure. So when in my younger years, my teenage years, I had endometriosis, and that can cause irregular periods, painful intercourse, and heavy periods, cramping, everything. So I dealt with that. And when I became sexually active, I would notice that it painful. So I would go to the gynecologist and she would say, well, just have a glass of wine and relax. You'll be okay. And I'm thinking, okay, I'm married my twenties and intercourse hurts. What am I supposed to do? So I kind of dealt with the pain. And then I went to another doctor a couple of years later and the same thing. I'm like, my libido is diminishing. It's painful intercourse all the time. And I don't know what to do. And the same thing, have a glass of wine, My friends would be like, well, you're maybe with the wrong person. And I met my ex-husband when I was in eighth grade. So I was with one person all my life. So I'm like, well, I'm not going to go cheat on him to find out if that's what the reason is. So I dealt with the pain for a while and I, I had two kids, thankfully my one's 19, one's 14 now, but, and I, over time I kept dealing with the pain and had at least three or four doctors tell me the same thing. Just relax, just relax. one day I just couldn't have intercourse anymore. And prior to that tampons hurt, like why did the tampons hurt? You know, I thought it was normal. I don't want to talk about it with my friends. It was embarrassing. So I just didn't tell anybody. And then, so I was attempting to have intercourse and nothing would go in. And I was like, what's something's wrong with me? It's like hitting a wall. And so I went to the doctor, a new doctor, and she's like, you have vaginismus. And I'm like, what is that? And she said, well, it's the... muscles in your vagina are involuntarily spasming and it's causing you not to be able to have sex anymore. So I thought, I don't know what the heck that is, but okay. What was the treatment? And she said, well, you have to go to a vaginal therapy or she called it pelvic floor therapy. I'm like, there's therapy for vaginas. You know, I was like, like what? So, and another thing was I was surprised that no one after all those years, I've been going to a doctor and no one ever suggested, why don't you go see a pelvic floor therapist? Right. It could have been, it could have been fixed before it got worse. So when I went to the doctor or to the therapist, I said, why does this happen? And she said, well, here's an example. If somebody came up to you and they punched you in the stomach and every time they saw you, they would punch you in the stomach. Eventually you would just back up tense up and just avoid that. And then the anticipation of pain. So that's what my vagina is doing. So I said, so my vagina broke. That's what I tell everybody. My vagina broke. So, and, and, Not that it's really broken. I mean, it is fixable. There is treatment for it. So there was supposed to be something where I use dilators or five different sizes. You're supposed to insert it for dilators. The size of a pinky is a size one and you leave it in there for 10 minutes a day until there's no pain. And then you take the new move up to the next size. You just keep graduating to up as far as you need to go. The one, the size five was like size. I call it Godzilla size. It was enormous. I don't even know why they create something that large, but so, so yeah, I did the therapy, but then it was just slow, slow process. I would start, you have to be consistent. I wasn't consistent. So. I, then I was in the shower. I was 36 years old and I found a breast lump. So I thought, well, it's probably nothing. I don't have any cancer history. I'm only 36. Just nobody in my family. I don't even know any friends that have cancer. So I thought, well, let me get it checked out. And that's what I did. And I found out I had breast cancer and I didn't realize it, but I had three tumors on my left breast, which was very shocking to me because again, I didn't, I felt like I, I felt healthy. Okay. I thought I looked normal, but I really had tumors inside of me and I couldn't believe it. So my breast cancer was estrogen positive. So the goal was to get rid of all the estrogen in my body. So I went through, I had one side of mastectomy, eventually had a double mastectomy and a total of six surgeries for reconstruction and seven surgery with a, for a total hysterectomy. And I also went through chemotherapy. So I lost all my hair and because estrogen got positive, the goal was to force me into menopause because we don't want any estrogen in my body. So I remember going to the oncologist and he's like, well, when you do this, when we're treating this, we're getting rid of the cancer. In order to do that, we need to get rid of all your estrogen. So you're going to have vaginal dryness. You're going to have lack of libido and it's probably going to be painful intercourse. And I just stared at him. I'm like, I don't think I could get any worse than, you know, cause I've been dealing with this. I never enjoyed sex because it was it was always painful. So I'm like, now it's going to get worse. So, and it did the pain was just like, I mean, not that I even didn't even attempt to do intercourse, but even just try and use my dilators even after the cancer was just like, it hurt too much. And I go back to size one and, and it was such a slow process in the vaginal. So I remember going to the oncologist and I told him, you know, what are the side effects of the chemo? And he's like, well, your breast cancer is estrogen positive. So the goal is to get rid of all your estrogen in your body. and it can cause painful intercourse like a libido and vaginal dryness so I thought well it can't get any worse than that and it sure did so I was pretty uh I mean intercourse was still impossible but even just to use the dilators it was something that I just didn't want to do anymore because it was just I just went back to size one and and uh it was just frustrating it was very frustrating so I'm like okay I took my breasts my uterus is gone I have no sex drive it's and then I'm married, you know, so I'm married for 20 years. And, and I thought, what am I supposed to do? You know, there's other forms of being intimate, but it's just, you know, could of course affect any relationship. But so then I did end up getting divorced after a 20 year marriage, not because of that, but there was other reasons. But so then I thought, what am I going to do? How am I going to date anybody? No one's going to want to be with me. I can't have sex. And just the thought of using the dilators just gave me anxiety. I don't want to use the dilators for somebody else. I want to use it for myself. So it is treatable. I just chose not to treat it anymore. But I thought, you know, it's easier just to stay single. And then I started thinking about like, why did I go through this? There's a reason why I got breast cancer. There's a reason why I had endometriosis broken vagina, the vaginismus and then the cancer. And what is it? And I'm like, this must be something I need to help people like myself that are alone and and wonder, or they're intimidated by traditional dating apps. And I thought, wait a minute, what do guys do that have erectile dysfunction? They have ED. Do they go on regular dates? Do they use regular dating apps? And I found that they do. And my friends would go on regular dating apps with these guys and maybe like the first, second, third date in, the guys will be like, they're in their thirties. And they said, well, I have erectile dysfunction. I'm on, I have diabetes that caused it. I have prostate cancer. I have PTSD, I'm on antidepressants. It's like all these different reasons of why they have erectile dysfunction. And I was like, did you save their number? Because that would be like a perfect mate for me is to have a guy that can't have intercourse. So I thought about that. Again, what kind of pressure those guys have? They would go on these dates and they're probably wondering, when am I going to tell the person that I'm dating that I can't have intercourse? Are they going to reject me? Are they going to embarrass? They're going to, I'm not going to get embarrassed. Are they gonna make fun of me? Who knows what it is? So are they staying single because they're scared and they don't want to be embarrassed anymore? So then I thought, you know, there was true. There was, I started doing research. There's. 30 million men in the U S to have rectal dysfunction and worldwide is approximately 320 million men. So I thought this is a huge problem, but nobody's talking about it. So, so I thought, how do I get these, connect these individuals that have these limitations? How do I connect them in a comfortable, safe environment so that they don't feel like they're going to be rejected and it could just be themselves regardless of their limitations. And so that's why I decided to create a dating app that takes sexual expectations out of, dating and it creates a safe place for individuals like myself that do have limitations to find companionship in a nonjudgmental way so that they don't have to worry about being rejected or embarrassed or having to wonder when should I tell that person that I can't have intercourse and are they going to break up with me or leave me or cheat on me, whatever it is. So I didn't realize how taboo the topic was. I mean, I guess I never talked about my sexual dysfunction until Now I walk around and I'll probably get a shirt that says my vagina is broken. Ask me what that means. But, um, but even just yesterday I was talking to this gentleman and I told him about my app and he's like, what kind of app is this? I told him, you know, explain it to him. And he admitted to me, he's like, you know, I have, I have ED, I have erectile dysfunction and, and I, I don't want to date anybody. I'm scared. And I'm like, well, this app is for you then. He's like, you know, I had, he had open heart surgery and he said he can't take it. Viagra or whatever kind of medication that would help with his ED because it can cause heart problems for him, high blood pressure. So he's, so it was just like, I love not that I wish anybody to have sexual dysfunction, but I love when, when people are like, I'm vulnerable as it is, you know, telling everybody my situation for them to come open and be like, Hey, I have this too. And it's like, Oh, you know, so it's, it's, it's definitely a needed app and, and, It just launched the end of August of 2021. And I have a whole hundred users. I was so excited two days ago, I reached 100. And of course it's not a ton, but when I didn't have any before.
Talaya Dendy_Host
Yeah.
Anna Leonarda_Guest
And since it is a taboo topic, it's very difficult to get the word out. So I'm trying to use social media, I'm trying to join podcasts and it's, but it's all worth it because I feel like, like I said before, you know, I feel like I went through this cancer journey and all the other. sexual dysfunction that I had all my life for a reason. And it's to help these individuals that are lonely and possibly depressed, and they just gave up, they can't date anymore. But there is someone out there that will love them just the way they are.
Talaya Dendy_Host
And that's so true, Anna. And I'm so happy that you created this app because there are so many people that are struggling and suffering in silence. And these are things that we need to talk about. We're all human. And at some point we're going to have some kind of, you know, issue that we'll have to work through with our health. And, um, you know, a lot of times when we are getting cancer treatment or other forms of treatment, like for diabetes, it's almost like a give and take. It's like, okay, in order to treat this problem, we have to create this problem.
Anna Leonarda_Guest
Right.
Talaya Dendy_Host
And, you know, it's unfortunate, but having something like your app in place to help people that, you know, have to go through those things and suffer from those side effects is so important. And one thing that I was thinking about is, well, you know, if you take the sex out of it, when you're meeting someone, you know, and getting to know someone, have you found that it has brought people closer together?
Anna Leonarda_Guest
I think that I haven't had any success stories in the app yet. I just got an email today of people thanking me for the app because they're saying they've been lonely for 15 years and finally they're able to date again. But I found that some people crave the emotional connection rather than the physical, and that's how I am. Like I get more emotionally attached to somebody than physically. And of course, I like the other forms of intimacy and kissing and cuddling and hugging or whatever. And I also that I actually know personally. And when I said, you're on my app, and I was surprised because they're my friends. And I'm like, why are you using my app? I didn't know you had sexual dysfunction. And they said, we don't or I don't because the reason I'm on your app is because I don't want to go on those traditional dating apps because that's all the guys want or the girls want, it's all they want. And I wanted to be with somebody for that emotional connection rather than the physical. And I was like, wow, this app is for anybody.
Talaya Dendy_Host
Yeah.
Anna Leonarda_Guest
Even if you can have intercourse and you're okay with not having it, and you want to have that emotional connection. And it might be even more intense than, you know, so it's... That was nice to see that there's people on there that just want to be with someone because of emotional rather than the intercourse physical part of it.
Talaya Dendy_Host
I think that's so important because, you know, there could be people that, you know, have STDs or something like that, that, you know, they don't want to date anymore. And they're like, well, I have to stay single for the rest of my life because I have this thing that, you know, is now... not really, it doesn't define you, but it's something that they would have to, you know, get out there and talk about if they're dating and share with someone that they choose to be intimate with. I could see your app being a great app for those people as well, because everyone that's getting on the app, I'm assuming is understanding that the focus is not on sex. It's, it's really about coming together and getting to know one another.
Anna Leonarda_Guest
Exactly. Yeah.
Talaya Dendy_Host
I love that.
Anna Leonarda_Guest
And of course, all intimacy is not off the table. It's just intercourse is something that may be possibly when it may not happen. Maybe they both have sexual dysfunction and when they meet, they might decide at the same time to treat their sexual dysfunction. So maybe there's a guy that doesn't want to use penile injections or doesn't want to put a penis penile implant. There's all these options for the guys that maybe they don't want to do the treatment, they'll decide, well, let's work on this together. I mean, we can make this, you know, do the therapy together or whatever. So it's that I can't wait to hear the stories that are going to be start coming in and just, you know, stuff like that, or just even just saying like, you know, people have been single for so long and now they finally found someone that just understands them.
Talaya Dendy_Host
Right. And I'm interested too, to hear more about that. And so you can always come back on the show, you know, cause that's, what helps people to feel like they're not alone is to say, hey, you know, this person went through the exact same thing and they were able to find love. And so sharing those kinds of things are so important. One thing that I'm very curious about, Anna, is when this idea came to you about creating the app, who did you initially share your idea with and what was their response?
Anna Leonarda_Guest
That's a good question. I don't remember who I told. I was very scared to tell anybody because I didn't want someone to be like, that's a stupid idea. You know? So I, I remember telling my ex-husband about it and because he's a, he's a CFO. So he, when I, I remember going up to him with my piece of paper cause I was a stay at home mom before. And I worked part time at a doctor's office as a medical transcriptionist. So I'm like, Oh my God, I'm crazy. What am I doing? What am I doing? I'm, um, I'm about to tell him, I was like kind of nervous. So I'm like, so I thought of this idea and he's just like, this is brilliant. He's like, why did you think about this before when we were married? I'm like, well, because I didn't think about dating, you know? So, so then, and initially I'm very, very shy and lack confidence or I did now I'm just like, watch out. I'm a badass bitch, everybody.
Talaya Dendy_Host
That's okay.
Anna Leonarda_Guest
So, Um, but that's what I needed. I needed people to say like, this is a great idea. This is genius. Cause I, I didn't know. I'm like, I don't think this is a good idea. I think this is over my head. I don't know what I'm doing. So I'm kind of winging it and learning how it does. I go, I don't have, I'm doing this all on my own. I funded this on my own. I got taken advantage of by my first app developers. I almost gave up, but what I would do is when I got discouraged and I thought, okay, you know, I'm not gonna be able to do this. I want to be able to afford it. Then I would talk to somebody about it and then it'd be like, oh my gosh, that's such a great idea.
Talaya Dendy_Host
You know?
Anna Leonarda_Guest
That's genius. And then when I keep hearing that, I'm like, you're right. It's right. You're right. You're right. This is needed. And some people are like, oh, you're going to be rich. Like, I don't care about the money. I think I'm going to feel rich with people telling me, like the emails I'm already getting, this app is amazing. I'm going to finally meet somebody that I've been single for 15 years, or this man had something called Peyronie's disease. where it's abnormal curvature of the penis. And, and he said that he's been single for so long because he says he feels like a fraud to these women because we'll go, we'll go on these dates. And then after like a third, fourth date in, he'll say, I have Peyronie's disease. I can't have sex. There was painful intercourse or whatever it is. And then he said, these women just like, you know, kind of like look at me, like I'm, you know, I have two heads and then just like, they just don't want to talk to me anymore. Now with your app, it gave me hope I could to go on just assume that maybe I can't have intercourse. And then down the road, they can tell them what their limitations are if they wanted to, but it could be even sexual trauma. There's just so many different, that demographic is just, there's a lot of people I need to reach.
Talaya Dendy_Host
That's a little overwhelming. That's true. And, you know, people that have, you know, gone through cancer treatment or, you know, had a hysterectomy for anyone really, like you just said, it offers hope that, you know, there is life after that experience that I went through. Sometimes you feel like, well, I had to give up this to be alive, or I had to do this particular thing to be alive and. You felt like you've given up so much already, but then to see an app like this that gives you hope and say, you know what? I could still get out there and potentially meet my future partner. And so it's needed. So keep going, Anna. Keep doing what you're doing.
Anna Leonarda_Guest
Thank you.
Talaya Dendy_Host
And I just want to applaud you for stepping out there and talking about something that is taboo or people... are kind of hesitant to talk about it because the way sex is portrayed today in society and on TV, but there's so much more to it. And I think that's what your app is saying that, Hey, there's way more than the physical aspect of it. And I think that's important to share as well.
Anna Leonarda_Guest
So after I got divorced, I started going out and meeting new people and, and I wanted to kind of test to see how would it be if I was going to go on a date with somebody? How would that conversation What I would do is if I would meet somebody and the guy would like, Hey, you want to go out? I'm like, let me tell you about this app. I created in this, this condition that I have. So some of them are just extremely insensitive and it just reminds me of why I need to create this app. So, so I'll tell a guy, I can't have sex. And he goes, Oh, that's okay. You have other holes. You know, I heard that three or four times already. And then, or you have, what about anal? It's like, you haven't even bought me a steak dinner yet. And you're asking me if I want to do anal, you know? So I was like, So then, you know, or you have the perfect reason why a guy wouldn't want to be with you or don't ever date anybody or be with anybody. Cause you'll never make them happy. It's like, so I thought there, I'm like, wait a minute, I can handle that. I'm not crying. And, you know, but if somebody hurt, here's that initially they may never want to date again. They're never going to tell anybody about their condition. But for me, I'm just like, this is just a reminder to me as I say, this is needed. Cause there's people out there that have heard all this horrible insensitive comments and I feel like this is their answer is that the Antoine app is that for them. So no, the cards are on a table right away. Intercourse may not be a possibility if that's a problem with you and you need that in a relationship, then don't use my app.
Talaya Dendy_Host
Well said, well said. Anna, you touched on erectile dysfunction. One thing I wanted to ask you is if someone suddenly has ED, what do you suggest they do? Like, you know, what are some of the warning signs or underlying underlying conditions that
Anna Leonarda_Guest
I was learning recently that erectile dysfunction, if somebody just thought of sudden has it, it could be a warning sign. It could be something where they're, they have clogged arteries or about to have a heart attack. They could be having a stroke soon. It just, so if you do find, if there is a guy out there listening or somebody's partner that knows that they're going through this, have them get checked out because it could just be as simple as maybe your blood pressure's off. It doesn't mean that it's cancer right away. It doesn't mean that it's inevitable that, you know, you're always going to have erectile dysfunction. It just could be a warning sign too. So just get it checked out. Don't be embarrassed. The doctors hear about it all the time. So just get it checked out and hopefully, you know, again, it's an easy fix and it's not the end of the world just because you have prostate cancer. It doesn't mean you're going to have permanent ED erectile dysfunction. You're going to, there's other, it's a bunch of treatment out there. My app, some people say it's a dead end app, but it's actually not because it's, there's treatment for men and this treatment for women, and they don't have to do the treatment. So if they don't want to do the treatment, then they use my app. So it's not, that doesn't mean that it's a dead end because I have treatment. I just don't want to, don't want to use it. I just want to do it. But it seemed with the breast cancer too. If, if I found my lump, I got checked out right away. If I waited a few more months or who knows how long I wouldn't be here anymore because it wasn't a fast growing tumor of fast going cancer aggressive and And so anybody out there that does find anything abnormal, something's not right. Just get it checked out. Don't wait. Don't procrastinate because early detection is key for a lot of different conditions or anything that any new symptoms that come up.
Talaya Dendy_Host
Great advice. Thank you. Anna, please share with us how the app works and where they can find it. Of course.
Anna Leonarda_Guest
Sure. If they go to entwinedating.com that's E N T W I N E. dating.com they can download the app for free it is a free app on broad they'll have some premium features available where you'll be able to see who liked you and so you can kind of like interact with them that way so when they go on the website and they download the app they can just put in their, their information, their basic information, their birth date and their, their location. And it will have a heart and a little X next to the picture underneath the picture. And then you can hit hard if you like the person X, if you don't. And then if they like you back, then you'll be able to message them and have a conversation to decide if you would like to meet in person or not. But right now it's like pretty basic app just because it is self-funded. So there's not too many filters in there. So there's not, you don't have to disclose what your limitations are. Even if you have any limitations, you may not even have sexual limitations, but you can put a little information as what would you do for hobbies and everything, but, but you do not have to tell anybody what your limitations are until you meet them. Then it's up to you. So there's no pressure there either.
Talaya Dendy_Host
Wonderful. I like that because everybody is coming on the app for pretty much the same reason in some form or fashion. So why make it initially something that you have to share up front, get to know people. And again, that's another example of this app kind of encourages people to get to know each other first. That's what I like about it. I like that.
Anna Leonarda_Guest
Thank you.
Talaya Dendy_Host
Because like you said, I've heard stories of how some of the other apps work and how things can go bad quickly. And it's like, because we need to get more back to human connection and emotional connection and taking the time to get to know each other because in my mind that's a form of healing too because so many people are are suffering from that it's
Anna Leonarda_Guest
true there i mean even i'm an erectile dysfunction group on support group on facebook and i saw a gentleman post on there i don't know why i'm living anymore No woman will ever want to be with me. I have, I have ED. And then there was other people commenting and saying like, you know, this is a common thing about for veterans that they're, they have PTSD, they have sexual dysfunction and they're suicidal. And they find out like weeks before they committed suicide, they found out that they were actually talking to the therapist about how they're lonely and depressed because of their sexual dysfunction. It's like, I got to reach veterans. I got to reach urologists. You got to reach cancer centers just to see that comments. It's like, oh my gosh, this is heartbreaking. Like just people that are suicidal and they just think there's no hope. And so if they have to hear about my app and it's like I said, it's free. I got to get the word out as quickly as I can. So that's why I'm grateful that you had me on your show to allow me to talk about my story and my app and increase awareness and try to end the taboo or the stigma of sexual dysfunction.
Talaya Dendy_Host
I think it's so important because it's something that unfortunately can have a huge impact on on women for sure, when they go through cancer treatment and men, other kinds of treatment, as you mentioned. And sometimes I've heard stories where people have agreed to have a certain type of cancer treatment, but their healthcare team or their doctor didn't share with them that it could potentially affect their sexual life and abilities. And then they're left wondering, well, what is going on with me? And, you know, maybe they didn't freeze their eggs so that they could have children later because they weren't told that, you know, the treatment could have an effect on them like that. There's so many different things going on. Lack of information, lack of correct information, simply not talking about things, lack of education. Could you please say it for me?
Anna Leonarda_Guest
Vaginismus.
Talaya Dendy_Host
Vaginismus. I never heard of that before.
Anna Leonarda_Guest
I didn't either. Okay. And it's like 7,000 women in Facebook support group that have it. And I just couldn't believe it. I'm like, I'm not alone. Didn't know it.
Talaya Dendy_Host
I've never heard that word before. And I'm just like, wow, we need to know about these things. You know, even if we're not going through it, maybe one of our friends are or one of our family members and just hearing from you and hearing about the psychological effects that it could have on people. It's important that we know about these things. We don't have to be well-versed on them, but we need to know that they exist.
Anna Leonarda_Guest
Right. And there's this thing when I talked to some guys about the app, they're like, they asked me, do you know any of your friends that have sexual dysfunction? No, no, we don't talk about that. I'm like, well, yeah, I know you don't. You know, that's what it is. Like, I think women kind of are a little bit more vocal about it. And I actually met a girl a couple of weeks ago. She was about to get married and I told her about my app and she goes, She goes, you know what I have, it really hurts when I have sex too. And I said, did you go to the doctor? She's like, yeah, I did. And she just told me to have a glass of wine and just to, you know, I just, just too nervous. I'm like, oh my gosh. And she's like, I'm actually bleeding when I have sex. And she told you to have a glass of wine. So I told her we exchanged information. I said, I'm not a doctor obviously, but just go to a different doctor and talk to them about it. Cause that's not, that's got to stop too. This, you know, have a glass of wine and relax. If you're... someone comes up to you and says, this hurts or tampons hurt or whatever. Don't just blow them off. You know, it's just sad that it's actually healthcare professionals that are saying to have a glass of wine. Okay. I'm just going to get drunk. And then you can have sex, Anna.
Talaya Dendy_Host
Yeah. That's, that's odd. Especially if a person is bleeding, that's major, I would assume. Right. You talked about pelvic floor therapy. Where would you recommend people start with getting more information about that?
Anna Leonarda_Guest
I know there's... there's a lot of like, if you go to your gynecologist, you should be able to ask them, who should I go to for pelvic floor therapy? I know there's even websites out there. I'm not sure if there's any specific ones, but they can go on there and type their city and state, and they can find their closest pelvic floor therapists in the area. And they can at least examine them and just find out if they have even a condition, you know, so instead of just getting blown off and getting instructed to get what kind of wine to get at the store.
Talaya Dendy_Host
Yeah, that's bizarre. and unacceptable quite there. It has to be done better than that. I just want to thank you for opening up and talking about this because like you and I, I'm sure there's other people that have never heard of that before, or they know people who have erectile dysfunction, men out there. Anna is someone that is willing to support you. She has the app to support you. I'm glad that you brought this to the show, Anna, because there's one thing that for sure. And there's a lot of men out there that don't want to ask for help. You know, they don't want to be viewed as weak or unmanly. You're a great example that there are people out there that are not judging you. And there are people out there that want to help you so that you can live your best life and be happy. On that note, Anna, is there anything else that you'd like to share?
Anna Leonarda_Guest
I would like to also say, if you are somebody that is going through this and you have have been alone just realize that you, there is someone out there that will understand your, your sexual limitations and you do deserve to be loved and nothing is ever worth ending your life over. So just get the help you need and check out my website. And I hope that you can report back to me and just give me a successful story of, of meeting somebody that that's just the love of your life. Just, I just, I just want to change so many people's worlds. I know that there's a lot out there that are silently struggling.
Talaya Dendy_Host
Thank you, Anna. That's so important. I just can't say it enough. There are people like Anna out there that have resources and her app where she can help you through this. So please don't suffer through this alone. Anna, before we end today, I'd like to ask my guests two questions. And the first one is, what is something that you've learned in life that you would like to share with the listeners?
Anna Leonarda_Guest
I would say to always seek out a second opinion because I did not get a second opinion. I was in a hurry. I trusted everybody. I trust everybody. I changed that lately, but just get a second opinion because I was supposed to have some reconstruction surgery that was going to be horrific. And I trusted my gut and just went to a different doctor and I was scared to. And I don't know what it was, but I just didn't want to get a second opinion. I want that doctor to think bad of me because, so if there is something you're going through with some kind of medical diagnosis, it doesn't hurt to get a second opinion. That's something I definitely wish I, if I went back to my first time diagnosis, I would have definitely reached out to a number of plastic surgeons instead of just sticking to the one that was super arrogant and confident. Great advice, Anna.
Talaya Dendy_Host
There's nothing wrong with. with getting a second opinion, actually it's in your best interest. And I think a lot of people, Anna, feel the way that you mentioned that, you know, Hey, I'm betraying my doctor. It's just that you are just seeking more clarification. You're, you're looking to see if there's a different perspective, a different option that's advocating for yourself and taking care of yourself.
Anna Leonarda_Guest
That's right.
Talaya Dendy_Host
And finally, Anna, what is next for you?
Anna Leonarda_Guest
Well, my... App is actually only available right now initially in the U.S. So my goal is to have it available worldwide. I hope that's soon because I already had people from Canada, UK, Australia, India, asking me, when is this app going to be available in my country? So that is one of my ultimate goals is to do that where it's available to everybody, because I don't want to tell anybody, no, it's not available in your country, but hopefully soon.
Talaya Dendy_Host
Wonderful. And besides your website, if people want to connect with you or learn more about you, would you like to mention any other? social media sites or anything like that, where they can find you? Sure. Thank you. They can reach me on Instagram at entwine underscore dating, and then also Facebook and Twitter at entwined dating. Wonderful. And I will include that information in the listen notes. Please look Anna up, especially if you or someone you know is struggling with sexual dysfunction or any of the other conditions that Anna mentioned. Just it's important to number one, know that the help and support is out there. Don't limit yourself. Don't be afraid. You can't go wrong just learning more about the app and giving it a try. And I want to thank you so much for joining me today.
Anna Leonarda_Guest
Thanks again for having me.
Talaya Dendy_Host
My pleasure. And listeners, it's so important that we have these conversations. I just can't say that enough. And I want to again applaud Anna for being vulnerable, talking about a very private and it could be a tricky subject to talk about. And so use Anna as an example that it's okay to share the things that you're going through and struggling with because it can help someone else. Anna, I just wish you the best with everything. Thank you very much. You're welcome. And before we end today, I'd like to give a shout out to the listeners. That is it for this Wednesday. Thank you so much for joining us. And until next time. Let's keep navigating cancer together. Take care. Thanks for listening to this episode of Navigating Cancer Together. I hope you enjoyed it. Please be sure to subscribe. And if you appreciate the show, drop a positive rating and review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. For notes from the show, visit ontheotherside.life and check out the podcast section. After you check out the show notes, head over to my gift shop and show yourself or someone special in your life some love with gifts of encouragement, hope, and positive affirmations. I would love it if you joined us for the next episode. Talk to you soon.

About Navigating Cancer TOGETHER

Upon receiving a cancer diagnosis, the patient typically faces many challenges, including feeling confused, overwhelmed, and alone. All of them are emotionally draining!

Listen and subscribe now to navigate cancer TOGETHER!

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

About Navigating Cancer TOGETHER

Upon receiving a cancer diagnosis, the patient typically faces many challenges, including feeling confused, overwhelmed, and alone. All of them are emotionally draining!

Listen and subscribe now to navigate cancer TOGETHER!

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

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✨Episode Highlights:

1. Entwine is a free dating app for those who may not be able to, or prefer not to, fully engage in intercourse.

3. There are 30 million men in the U.S. who have erectile dysfunction.

📱Connect with Anna and the Entwine dating app at:

www.EntwineDating.com

https://www.instagram.com/entwine_dating/

https://www.facebook.com/entwinedating

https://twitter.com/entwinedating

Note: As of January 2026, these platforms may be inactive, but remain a testament to Anna's mission.

About Your Host:

Connect & Support:

Visit On the Other Side: https://www.ontheotherside.life
Subscribe to Our Newsletter: https://bit.ly/OTOSNewsletter
Contribute & Support Survivorship: https://givebutter.com/SurvivorSerieswithTalayaDendy

💜If you found this episode helpful, please leave a review on Apple Podcasts and share it with others to help us reach more people navigating cancer.

Hosted, Produced, Written, and Edited by: Talaya Dendy

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Transcription

Talaya Dendy_Host
Welcome to the Navigating Cancer Together podcast. My name is Talaya Dindi. I am a 10-year cancer thriver, cancer doula, and owner of On the Other Side. I use my experience to help others get on the other side of cancer. This podcast is about sharing stories, resources, and information about all things related to cancer and wellness. I interview guests from all walks of life, who are living with cancer, caregivers and those who made it on the other side. Also I talk with organizations, healthcare professionals and experts in the health and wellness spaces who offer complementary and integrative care. Join me we are in this together. Hello and welcome to Navigating Cancer Together. I am your host Talaya Dindy Today we have the amazing Anna Leonardo with us today, and she's going to talk about a very taboo topic that we simply need to talk about. Anna is a nine-year breast cancer survivor who resides in Chicago, Illinois with her two children. For most of her adult life, Anna struggled with painful intercourse. The side effects from her cancer treatment only exacerbated her symptoms after she wondered how she would enter the dating world with these sexual limitations. Anna found she wasn't alone and so she decided to create a dating app that takes sexual expectations out of dating. Don't we need that? The app is called Entwine. Anna, thank you so much for joining us today.
Anna Leonarda_Guest
Thank you for having me.
Talaya Dendy_Host
My pleasure. I am so excited to talk about this topic. It's one that causes a lot of people grief and shame. That's why it's so important to just talk about it out in the open, Anna. Please tell us more about your cancer journey.
Anna Leonarda_Guest
Sure. So when in my younger years, my teenage years, I had endometriosis, and that can cause irregular periods, painful intercourse, and heavy periods, cramping, everything. So I dealt with that. And when I became sexually active, I would notice that it painful. So I would go to the gynecologist and she would say, well, just have a glass of wine and relax. You'll be okay. And I'm thinking, okay, I'm married my twenties and intercourse hurts. What am I supposed to do? So I kind of dealt with the pain. And then I went to another doctor a couple of years later and the same thing. I'm like, my libido is diminishing. It's painful intercourse all the time. And I don't know what to do. And the same thing, have a glass of wine, My friends would be like, well, you're maybe with the wrong person. And I met my ex-husband when I was in eighth grade. So I was with one person all my life. So I'm like, well, I'm not going to go cheat on him to find out if that's what the reason is. So I dealt with the pain for a while and I, I had two kids, thankfully my one's 19, one's 14 now, but, and I, over time I kept dealing with the pain and had at least three or four doctors tell me the same thing. Just relax, just relax. one day I just couldn't have intercourse anymore. And prior to that tampons hurt, like why did the tampons hurt? You know, I thought it was normal. I don't want to talk about it with my friends. It was embarrassing. So I just didn't tell anybody. And then, so I was attempting to have intercourse and nothing would go in. And I was like, what's something's wrong with me? It's like hitting a wall. And so I went to the doctor, a new doctor, and she's like, you have vaginismus. And I'm like, what is that? And she said, well, it's the... muscles in your vagina are involuntarily spasming and it's causing you not to be able to have sex anymore. So I thought, I don't know what the heck that is, but okay. What was the treatment? And she said, well, you have to go to a vaginal therapy or she called it pelvic floor therapy. I'm like, there's therapy for vaginas. You know, I was like, like what? So, and another thing was I was surprised that no one after all those years, I've been going to a doctor and no one ever suggested, why don't you go see a pelvic floor therapist? Right. It could have been, it could have been fixed before it got worse. So when I went to the doctor or to the therapist, I said, why does this happen? And she said, well, here's an example. If somebody came up to you and they punched you in the stomach and every time they saw you, they would punch you in the stomach. Eventually you would just back up tense up and just avoid that. And then the anticipation of pain. So that's what my vagina is doing. So I said, so my vagina broke. That's what I tell everybody. My vagina broke. So, and, and, Not that it's really broken. I mean, it is fixable. There is treatment for it. So there was supposed to be something where I use dilators or five different sizes. You're supposed to insert it for dilators. The size of a pinky is a size one and you leave it in there for 10 minutes a day until there's no pain. And then you take the new move up to the next size. You just keep graduating to up as far as you need to go. The one, the size five was like size. I call it Godzilla size. It was enormous. I don't even know why they create something that large, but so, so yeah, I did the therapy, but then it was just slow, slow process. I would start, you have to be consistent. I wasn't consistent. So. I, then I was in the shower. I was 36 years old and I found a breast lump. So I thought, well, it's probably nothing. I don't have any cancer history. I'm only 36. Just nobody in my family. I don't even know any friends that have cancer. So I thought, well, let me get it checked out. And that's what I did. And I found out I had breast cancer and I didn't realize it, but I had three tumors on my left breast, which was very shocking to me because again, I didn't, I felt like I, I felt healthy. Okay. I thought I looked normal, but I really had tumors inside of me and I couldn't believe it. So my breast cancer was estrogen positive. So the goal was to get rid of all the estrogen in my body. So I went through, I had one side of mastectomy, eventually had a double mastectomy and a total of six surgeries for reconstruction and seven surgery with a, for a total hysterectomy. And I also went through chemotherapy. So I lost all my hair and because estrogen got positive, the goal was to force me into menopause because we don't want any estrogen in my body. So I remember going to the oncologist and he's like, well, when you do this, when we're treating this, we're getting rid of the cancer. In order to do that, we need to get rid of all your estrogen. So you're going to have vaginal dryness. You're going to have lack of libido and it's probably going to be painful intercourse. And I just stared at him. I'm like, I don't think I could get any worse than, you know, cause I've been dealing with this. I never enjoyed sex because it was it was always painful. So I'm like, now it's going to get worse. So, and it did the pain was just like, I mean, not that I even didn't even attempt to do intercourse, but even just try and use my dilators even after the cancer was just like, it hurt too much. And I go back to size one and, and it was such a slow process in the vaginal. So I remember going to the oncologist and I told him, you know, what are the side effects of the chemo? And he's like, well, your breast cancer is estrogen positive. So the goal is to get rid of all your estrogen in your body. and it can cause painful intercourse like a libido and vaginal dryness so I thought well it can't get any worse than that and it sure did so I was pretty uh I mean intercourse was still impossible but even just to use the dilators it was something that I just didn't want to do anymore because it was just I just went back to size one and and uh it was just frustrating it was very frustrating so I'm like okay I took my breasts my uterus is gone I have no sex drive it's and then I'm married, you know, so I'm married for 20 years. And, and I thought, what am I supposed to do? You know, there's other forms of being intimate, but it's just, you know, could of course affect any relationship. But so then I did end up getting divorced after a 20 year marriage, not because of that, but there was other reasons. But so then I thought, what am I going to do? How am I going to date anybody? No one's going to want to be with me. I can't have sex. And just the thought of using the dilators just gave me anxiety. I don't want to use the dilators for somebody else. I want to use it for myself. So it is treatable. I just chose not to treat it anymore. But I thought, you know, it's easier just to stay single. And then I started thinking about like, why did I go through this? There's a reason why I got breast cancer. There's a reason why I had endometriosis broken vagina, the vaginismus and then the cancer. And what is it? And I'm like, this must be something I need to help people like myself that are alone and and wonder, or they're intimidated by traditional dating apps. And I thought, wait a minute, what do guys do that have erectile dysfunction? They have ED. Do they go on regular dates? Do they use regular dating apps? And I found that they do. And my friends would go on regular dating apps with these guys and maybe like the first, second, third date in, the guys will be like, they're in their thirties. And they said, well, I have erectile dysfunction. I'm on, I have diabetes that caused it. I have prostate cancer. I have PTSD, I'm on antidepressants. It's like all these different reasons of why they have erectile dysfunction. And I was like, did you save their number? Because that would be like a perfect mate for me is to have a guy that can't have intercourse. So I thought about that. Again, what kind of pressure those guys have? They would go on these dates and they're probably wondering, when am I going to tell the person that I'm dating that I can't have intercourse? Are they going to reject me? Are they going to embarrass? They're going to, I'm not going to get embarrassed. Are they gonna make fun of me? Who knows what it is? So are they staying single because they're scared and they don't want to be embarrassed anymore? So then I thought, you know, there was true. There was, I started doing research. There's. 30 million men in the U S to have rectal dysfunction and worldwide is approximately 320 million men. So I thought this is a huge problem, but nobody's talking about it. So, so I thought, how do I get these, connect these individuals that have these limitations? How do I connect them in a comfortable, safe environment so that they don't feel like they're going to be rejected and it could just be themselves regardless of their limitations. And so that's why I decided to create a dating app that takes sexual expectations out of, dating and it creates a safe place for individuals like myself that do have limitations to find companionship in a nonjudgmental way so that they don't have to worry about being rejected or embarrassed or having to wonder when should I tell that person that I can't have intercourse and are they going to break up with me or leave me or cheat on me, whatever it is. So I didn't realize how taboo the topic was. I mean, I guess I never talked about my sexual dysfunction until Now I walk around and I'll probably get a shirt that says my vagina is broken. Ask me what that means. But, um, but even just yesterday I was talking to this gentleman and I told him about my app and he's like, what kind of app is this? I told him, you know, explain it to him. And he admitted to me, he's like, you know, I have, I have ED, I have erectile dysfunction and, and I, I don't want to date anybody. I'm scared. And I'm like, well, this app is for you then. He's like, you know, I had, he had open heart surgery and he said he can't take it. Viagra or whatever kind of medication that would help with his ED because it can cause heart problems for him, high blood pressure. So he's, so it was just like, I love not that I wish anybody to have sexual dysfunction, but I love when, when people are like, I'm vulnerable as it is, you know, telling everybody my situation for them to come open and be like, Hey, I have this too. And it's like, Oh, you know, so it's, it's, it's definitely a needed app and, and, It just launched the end of August of 2021. And I have a whole hundred users. I was so excited two days ago, I reached 100. And of course it's not a ton, but when I didn't have any before.
Talaya Dendy_Host
Yeah.
Anna Leonarda_Guest
And since it is a taboo topic, it's very difficult to get the word out. So I'm trying to use social media, I'm trying to join podcasts and it's, but it's all worth it because I feel like, like I said before, you know, I feel like I went through this cancer journey and all the other. sexual dysfunction that I had all my life for a reason. And it's to help these individuals that are lonely and possibly depressed, and they just gave up, they can't date anymore. But there is someone out there that will love them just the way they are.
Talaya Dendy_Host
And that's so true, Anna. And I'm so happy that you created this app because there are so many people that are struggling and suffering in silence. And these are things that we need to talk about. We're all human. And at some point we're going to have some kind of, you know, issue that we'll have to work through with our health. And, um, you know, a lot of times when we are getting cancer treatment or other forms of treatment, like for diabetes, it's almost like a give and take. It's like, okay, in order to treat this problem, we have to create this problem.
Anna Leonarda_Guest
Right.
Talaya Dendy_Host
And, you know, it's unfortunate, but having something like your app in place to help people that, you know, have to go through those things and suffer from those side effects is so important. And one thing that I was thinking about is, well, you know, if you take the sex out of it, when you're meeting someone, you know, and getting to know someone, have you found that it has brought people closer together?
Anna Leonarda_Guest
I think that I haven't had any success stories in the app yet. I just got an email today of people thanking me for the app because they're saying they've been lonely for 15 years and finally they're able to date again. But I found that some people crave the emotional connection rather than the physical, and that's how I am. Like I get more emotionally attached to somebody than physically. And of course, I like the other forms of intimacy and kissing and cuddling and hugging or whatever. And I also that I actually know personally. And when I said, you're on my app, and I was surprised because they're my friends. And I'm like, why are you using my app? I didn't know you had sexual dysfunction. And they said, we don't or I don't because the reason I'm on your app is because I don't want to go on those traditional dating apps because that's all the guys want or the girls want, it's all they want. And I wanted to be with somebody for that emotional connection rather than the physical. And I was like, wow, this app is for anybody.
Talaya Dendy_Host
Yeah.
Anna Leonarda_Guest
Even if you can have intercourse and you're okay with not having it, and you want to have that emotional connection. And it might be even more intense than, you know, so it's... That was nice to see that there's people on there that just want to be with someone because of emotional rather than the intercourse physical part of it.
Talaya Dendy_Host
I think that's so important because, you know, there could be people that, you know, have STDs or something like that, that, you know, they don't want to date anymore. And they're like, well, I have to stay single for the rest of my life because I have this thing that, you know, is now... not really, it doesn't define you, but it's something that they would have to, you know, get out there and talk about if they're dating and share with someone that they choose to be intimate with. I could see your app being a great app for those people as well, because everyone that's getting on the app, I'm assuming is understanding that the focus is not on sex. It's, it's really about coming together and getting to know one another.
Anna Leonarda_Guest
Exactly. Yeah.
Talaya Dendy_Host
I love that.
Anna Leonarda_Guest
And of course, all intimacy is not off the table. It's just intercourse is something that may be possibly when it may not happen. Maybe they both have sexual dysfunction and when they meet, they might decide at the same time to treat their sexual dysfunction. So maybe there's a guy that doesn't want to use penile injections or doesn't want to put a penis penile implant. There's all these options for the guys that maybe they don't want to do the treatment, they'll decide, well, let's work on this together. I mean, we can make this, you know, do the therapy together or whatever. So it's that I can't wait to hear the stories that are going to be start coming in and just, you know, stuff like that, or just even just saying like, you know, people have been single for so long and now they finally found someone that just understands them.
Talaya Dendy_Host
Right. And I'm interested too, to hear more about that. And so you can always come back on the show, you know, cause that's, what helps people to feel like they're not alone is to say, hey, you know, this person went through the exact same thing and they were able to find love. And so sharing those kinds of things are so important. One thing that I'm very curious about, Anna, is when this idea came to you about creating the app, who did you initially share your idea with and what was their response?
Anna Leonarda_Guest
That's a good question. I don't remember who I told. I was very scared to tell anybody because I didn't want someone to be like, that's a stupid idea. You know? So I, I remember telling my ex-husband about it and because he's a, he's a CFO. So he, when I, I remember going up to him with my piece of paper cause I was a stay at home mom before. And I worked part time at a doctor's office as a medical transcriptionist. So I'm like, Oh my God, I'm crazy. What am I doing? What am I doing? I'm, um, I'm about to tell him, I was like kind of nervous. So I'm like, so I thought of this idea and he's just like, this is brilliant. He's like, why did you think about this before when we were married? I'm like, well, because I didn't think about dating, you know? So, so then, and initially I'm very, very shy and lack confidence or I did now I'm just like, watch out. I'm a badass bitch, everybody.
Talaya Dendy_Host
That's okay.
Anna Leonarda_Guest
So, Um, but that's what I needed. I needed people to say like, this is a great idea. This is genius. Cause I, I didn't know. I'm like, I don't think this is a good idea. I think this is over my head. I don't know what I'm doing. So I'm kind of winging it and learning how it does. I go, I don't have, I'm doing this all on my own. I funded this on my own. I got taken advantage of by my first app developers. I almost gave up, but what I would do is when I got discouraged and I thought, okay, you know, I'm not gonna be able to do this. I want to be able to afford it. Then I would talk to somebody about it and then it'd be like, oh my gosh, that's such a great idea.
Talaya Dendy_Host
You know?
Anna Leonarda_Guest
That's genius. And then when I keep hearing that, I'm like, you're right. It's right. You're right. You're right. This is needed. And some people are like, oh, you're going to be rich. Like, I don't care about the money. I think I'm going to feel rich with people telling me, like the emails I'm already getting, this app is amazing. I'm going to finally meet somebody that I've been single for 15 years, or this man had something called Peyronie's disease. where it's abnormal curvature of the penis. And, and he said that he's been single for so long because he says he feels like a fraud to these women because we'll go, we'll go on these dates. And then after like a third, fourth date in, he'll say, I have Peyronie's disease. I can't have sex. There was painful intercourse or whatever it is. And then he said, these women just like, you know, kind of like look at me, like I'm, you know, I have two heads and then just like, they just don't want to talk to me anymore. Now with your app, it gave me hope I could to go on just assume that maybe I can't have intercourse. And then down the road, they can tell them what their limitations are if they wanted to, but it could be even sexual trauma. There's just so many different, that demographic is just, there's a lot of people I need to reach.
Talaya Dendy_Host
That's a little overwhelming. That's true. And, you know, people that have, you know, gone through cancer treatment or, you know, had a hysterectomy for anyone really, like you just said, it offers hope that, you know, there is life after that experience that I went through. Sometimes you feel like, well, I had to give up this to be alive, or I had to do this particular thing to be alive and. You felt like you've given up so much already, but then to see an app like this that gives you hope and say, you know what? I could still get out there and potentially meet my future partner. And so it's needed. So keep going, Anna. Keep doing what you're doing.
Anna Leonarda_Guest
Thank you.
Talaya Dendy_Host
And I just want to applaud you for stepping out there and talking about something that is taboo or people... are kind of hesitant to talk about it because the way sex is portrayed today in society and on TV, but there's so much more to it. And I think that's what your app is saying that, Hey, there's way more than the physical aspect of it. And I think that's important to share as well.
Anna Leonarda_Guest
So after I got divorced, I started going out and meeting new people and, and I wanted to kind of test to see how would it be if I was going to go on a date with somebody? How would that conversation What I would do is if I would meet somebody and the guy would like, Hey, you want to go out? I'm like, let me tell you about this app. I created in this, this condition that I have. So some of them are just extremely insensitive and it just reminds me of why I need to create this app. So, so I'll tell a guy, I can't have sex. And he goes, Oh, that's okay. You have other holes. You know, I heard that three or four times already. And then, or you have, what about anal? It's like, you haven't even bought me a steak dinner yet. And you're asking me if I want to do anal, you know? So I was like, So then, you know, or you have the perfect reason why a guy wouldn't want to be with you or don't ever date anybody or be with anybody. Cause you'll never make them happy. It's like, so I thought there, I'm like, wait a minute, I can handle that. I'm not crying. And, you know, but if somebody hurt, here's that initially they may never want to date again. They're never going to tell anybody about their condition. But for me, I'm just like, this is just a reminder to me as I say, this is needed. Cause there's people out there that have heard all this horrible insensitive comments and I feel like this is their answer is that the Antoine app is that for them. So no, the cards are on a table right away. Intercourse may not be a possibility if that's a problem with you and you need that in a relationship, then don't use my app.
Talaya Dendy_Host
Well said, well said. Anna, you touched on erectile dysfunction. One thing I wanted to ask you is if someone suddenly has ED, what do you suggest they do? Like, you know, what are some of the warning signs or underlying underlying conditions that
Anna Leonarda_Guest
I was learning recently that erectile dysfunction, if somebody just thought of sudden has it, it could be a warning sign. It could be something where they're, they have clogged arteries or about to have a heart attack. They could be having a stroke soon. It just, so if you do find, if there is a guy out there listening or somebody's partner that knows that they're going through this, have them get checked out because it could just be as simple as maybe your blood pressure's off. It doesn't mean that it's cancer right away. It doesn't mean that it's inevitable that, you know, you're always going to have erectile dysfunction. It just could be a warning sign too. So just get it checked out. Don't be embarrassed. The doctors hear about it all the time. So just get it checked out and hopefully, you know, again, it's an easy fix and it's not the end of the world just because you have prostate cancer. It doesn't mean you're going to have permanent ED erectile dysfunction. You're going to, there's other, it's a bunch of treatment out there. My app, some people say it's a dead end app, but it's actually not because it's, there's treatment for men and this treatment for women, and they don't have to do the treatment. So if they don't want to do the treatment, then they use my app. So it's not, that doesn't mean that it's a dead end because I have treatment. I just don't want to, don't want to use it. I just want to do it. But it seemed with the breast cancer too. If, if I found my lump, I got checked out right away. If I waited a few more months or who knows how long I wouldn't be here anymore because it wasn't a fast growing tumor of fast going cancer aggressive and And so anybody out there that does find anything abnormal, something's not right. Just get it checked out. Don't wait. Don't procrastinate because early detection is key for a lot of different conditions or anything that any new symptoms that come up.
Talaya Dendy_Host
Great advice. Thank you. Anna, please share with us how the app works and where they can find it. Of course.
Anna Leonarda_Guest
Sure. If they go to entwinedating.com that's E N T W I N E. dating.com they can download the app for free it is a free app on broad they'll have some premium features available where you'll be able to see who liked you and so you can kind of like interact with them that way so when they go on the website and they download the app they can just put in their, their information, their basic information, their birth date and their, their location. And it will have a heart and a little X next to the picture underneath the picture. And then you can hit hard if you like the person X, if you don't. And then if they like you back, then you'll be able to message them and have a conversation to decide if you would like to meet in person or not. But right now it's like pretty basic app just because it is self-funded. So there's not too many filters in there. So there's not, you don't have to disclose what your limitations are. Even if you have any limitations, you may not even have sexual limitations, but you can put a little information as what would you do for hobbies and everything, but, but you do not have to tell anybody what your limitations are until you meet them. Then it's up to you. So there's no pressure there either.
Talaya Dendy_Host
Wonderful. I like that because everybody is coming on the app for pretty much the same reason in some form or fashion. So why make it initially something that you have to share up front, get to know people. And again, that's another example of this app kind of encourages people to get to know each other first. That's what I like about it. I like that.
Anna Leonarda_Guest
Thank you.
Talaya Dendy_Host
Because like you said, I've heard stories of how some of the other apps work and how things can go bad quickly. And it's like, because we need to get more back to human connection and emotional connection and taking the time to get to know each other because in my mind that's a form of healing too because so many people are are suffering from that it's
Anna Leonarda_Guest
true there i mean even i'm an erectile dysfunction group on support group on facebook and i saw a gentleman post on there i don't know why i'm living anymore No woman will ever want to be with me. I have, I have ED. And then there was other people commenting and saying like, you know, this is a common thing about for veterans that they're, they have PTSD, they have sexual dysfunction and they're suicidal. And they find out like weeks before they committed suicide, they found out that they were actually talking to the therapist about how they're lonely and depressed because of their sexual dysfunction. It's like, I got to reach veterans. I got to reach urologists. You got to reach cancer centers just to see that comments. It's like, oh my gosh, this is heartbreaking. Like just people that are suicidal and they just think there's no hope. And so if they have to hear about my app and it's like I said, it's free. I got to get the word out as quickly as I can. So that's why I'm grateful that you had me on your show to allow me to talk about my story and my app and increase awareness and try to end the taboo or the stigma of sexual dysfunction.
Talaya Dendy_Host
I think it's so important because it's something that unfortunately can have a huge impact on on women for sure, when they go through cancer treatment and men, other kinds of treatment, as you mentioned. And sometimes I've heard stories where people have agreed to have a certain type of cancer treatment, but their healthcare team or their doctor didn't share with them that it could potentially affect their sexual life and abilities. And then they're left wondering, well, what is going on with me? And, you know, maybe they didn't freeze their eggs so that they could have children later because they weren't told that, you know, the treatment could have an effect on them like that. There's so many different things going on. Lack of information, lack of correct information, simply not talking about things, lack of education. Could you please say it for me?
Anna Leonarda_Guest
Vaginismus.
Talaya Dendy_Host
Vaginismus. I never heard of that before.
Anna Leonarda_Guest
I didn't either. Okay. And it's like 7,000 women in Facebook support group that have it. And I just couldn't believe it. I'm like, I'm not alone. Didn't know it.
Talaya Dendy_Host
I've never heard that word before. And I'm just like, wow, we need to know about these things. You know, even if we're not going through it, maybe one of our friends are or one of our family members and just hearing from you and hearing about the psychological effects that it could have on people. It's important that we know about these things. We don't have to be well-versed on them, but we need to know that they exist.
Anna Leonarda_Guest
Right. And there's this thing when I talked to some guys about the app, they're like, they asked me, do you know any of your friends that have sexual dysfunction? No, no, we don't talk about that. I'm like, well, yeah, I know you don't. You know, that's what it is. Like, I think women kind of are a little bit more vocal about it. And I actually met a girl a couple of weeks ago. She was about to get married and I told her about my app and she goes, She goes, you know what I have, it really hurts when I have sex too. And I said, did you go to the doctor? She's like, yeah, I did. And she just told me to have a glass of wine and just to, you know, I just, just too nervous. I'm like, oh my gosh. And she's like, I'm actually bleeding when I have sex. And she told you to have a glass of wine. So I told her we exchanged information. I said, I'm not a doctor obviously, but just go to a different doctor and talk to them about it. Cause that's not, that's got to stop too. This, you know, have a glass of wine and relax. If you're... someone comes up to you and says, this hurts or tampons hurt or whatever. Don't just blow them off. You know, it's just sad that it's actually healthcare professionals that are saying to have a glass of wine. Okay. I'm just going to get drunk. And then you can have sex, Anna.
Talaya Dendy_Host
Yeah. That's, that's odd. Especially if a person is bleeding, that's major, I would assume. Right. You talked about pelvic floor therapy. Where would you recommend people start with getting more information about that?
Anna Leonarda_Guest
I know there's... there's a lot of like, if you go to your gynecologist, you should be able to ask them, who should I go to for pelvic floor therapy? I know there's even websites out there. I'm not sure if there's any specific ones, but they can go on there and type their city and state, and they can find their closest pelvic floor therapists in the area. And they can at least examine them and just find out if they have even a condition, you know, so instead of just getting blown off and getting instructed to get what kind of wine to get at the store.
Talaya Dendy_Host
Yeah, that's bizarre. and unacceptable quite there. It has to be done better than that. I just want to thank you for opening up and talking about this because like you and I, I'm sure there's other people that have never heard of that before, or they know people who have erectile dysfunction, men out there. Anna is someone that is willing to support you. She has the app to support you. I'm glad that you brought this to the show, Anna, because there's one thing that for sure. And there's a lot of men out there that don't want to ask for help. You know, they don't want to be viewed as weak or unmanly. You're a great example that there are people out there that are not judging you. And there are people out there that want to help you so that you can live your best life and be happy. On that note, Anna, is there anything else that you'd like to share?
Anna Leonarda_Guest
I would like to also say, if you are somebody that is going through this and you have have been alone just realize that you, there is someone out there that will understand your, your sexual limitations and you do deserve to be loved and nothing is ever worth ending your life over. So just get the help you need and check out my website. And I hope that you can report back to me and just give me a successful story of, of meeting somebody that that's just the love of your life. Just, I just, I just want to change so many people's worlds. I know that there's a lot out there that are silently struggling.
Talaya Dendy_Host
Thank you, Anna. That's so important. I just can't say it enough. There are people like Anna out there that have resources and her app where she can help you through this. So please don't suffer through this alone. Anna, before we end today, I'd like to ask my guests two questions. And the first one is, what is something that you've learned in life that you would like to share with the listeners?
Anna Leonarda_Guest
I would say to always seek out a second opinion because I did not get a second opinion. I was in a hurry. I trusted everybody. I trust everybody. I changed that lately, but just get a second opinion because I was supposed to have some reconstruction surgery that was going to be horrific. And I trusted my gut and just went to a different doctor and I was scared to. And I don't know what it was, but I just didn't want to get a second opinion. I want that doctor to think bad of me because, so if there is something you're going through with some kind of medical diagnosis, it doesn't hurt to get a second opinion. That's something I definitely wish I, if I went back to my first time diagnosis, I would have definitely reached out to a number of plastic surgeons instead of just sticking to the one that was super arrogant and confident. Great advice, Anna.
Talaya Dendy_Host
There's nothing wrong with. with getting a second opinion, actually it's in your best interest. And I think a lot of people, Anna, feel the way that you mentioned that, you know, Hey, I'm betraying my doctor. It's just that you are just seeking more clarification. You're, you're looking to see if there's a different perspective, a different option that's advocating for yourself and taking care of yourself.
Anna Leonarda_Guest
That's right.
Talaya Dendy_Host
And finally, Anna, what is next for you?
Anna Leonarda_Guest
Well, my... App is actually only available right now initially in the U.S. So my goal is to have it available worldwide. I hope that's soon because I already had people from Canada, UK, Australia, India, asking me, when is this app going to be available in my country? So that is one of my ultimate goals is to do that where it's available to everybody, because I don't want to tell anybody, no, it's not available in your country, but hopefully soon.
Talaya Dendy_Host
Wonderful. And besides your website, if people want to connect with you or learn more about you, would you like to mention any other? social media sites or anything like that, where they can find you? Sure. Thank you. They can reach me on Instagram at entwine underscore dating, and then also Facebook and Twitter at entwined dating. Wonderful. And I will include that information in the listen notes. Please look Anna up, especially if you or someone you know is struggling with sexual dysfunction or any of the other conditions that Anna mentioned. Just it's important to number one, know that the help and support is out there. Don't limit yourself. Don't be afraid. You can't go wrong just learning more about the app and giving it a try. And I want to thank you so much for joining me today.
Anna Leonarda_Guest
Thanks again for having me.
Talaya Dendy_Host
My pleasure. And listeners, it's so important that we have these conversations. I just can't say that enough. And I want to again applaud Anna for being vulnerable, talking about a very private and it could be a tricky subject to talk about. And so use Anna as an example that it's okay to share the things that you're going through and struggling with because it can help someone else. Anna, I just wish you the best with everything. Thank you very much. You're welcome. And before we end today, I'd like to give a shout out to the listeners. That is it for this Wednesday. Thank you so much for joining us. And until next time. Let's keep navigating cancer together. Take care. Thanks for listening to this episode of Navigating Cancer Together. I hope you enjoyed it. Please be sure to subscribe. And if you appreciate the show, drop a positive rating and review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. For notes from the show, visit ontheotherside.life and check out the podcast section. After you check out the show notes, head over to my gift shop and show yourself or someone special in your life some love with gifts of encouragement, hope, and positive affirmations. I would love it if you joined us for the next episode. Talk to you soon.

About Navigating Cancer TOGETHER

Upon receiving a cancer diagnosis, the patient typically faces many challenges, including feeling confused, overwhelmed, and alone. All of them are emotionally draining!

Listen and subscribe now to navigate cancer TOGETHER!

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

About Navigating Cancer TOGETHER

Upon receiving a cancer diagnosis, the patient typically faces many challenges, including feeling confused, overwhelmed, and alone. All of them are emotionally draining!

Listen and subscribe now to navigate cancer TOGETHER!

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Description

✨Episode Highlights:

1. Entwine is a free dating app for those who may not be able to, or prefer not to, fully engage in intercourse.

3. There are 30 million men in the U.S. who have erectile dysfunction.

📱Connect with Anna and the Entwine dating app at:

www.EntwineDating.com

https://www.instagram.com/entwine_dating/

https://www.facebook.com/entwinedating

https://twitter.com/entwinedating

Note: As of January 2026, these platforms may be inactive, but remain a testament to Anna's mission.

About Your Host:

Connect & Support:

Visit On the Other Side: https://www.ontheotherside.life
Subscribe to Our Newsletter: https://bit.ly/OTOSNewsletter
Contribute & Support Survivorship: https://givebutter.com/SurvivorSerieswithTalayaDendy

💜If you found this episode helpful, please leave a review on Apple Podcasts and share it with others to help us reach more people navigating cancer.

Hosted, Produced, Written, and Edited by: Talaya Dendy

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Transcription

Talaya Dendy_Host
Welcome to the Navigating Cancer Together podcast. My name is Talaya Dindi. I am a 10-year cancer thriver, cancer doula, and owner of On the Other Side. I use my experience to help others get on the other side of cancer. This podcast is about sharing stories, resources, and information about all things related to cancer and wellness. I interview guests from all walks of life, who are living with cancer, caregivers and those who made it on the other side. Also I talk with organizations, healthcare professionals and experts in the health and wellness spaces who offer complementary and integrative care. Join me we are in this together. Hello and welcome to Navigating Cancer Together. I am your host Talaya Dindy Today we have the amazing Anna Leonardo with us today, and she's going to talk about a very taboo topic that we simply need to talk about. Anna is a nine-year breast cancer survivor who resides in Chicago, Illinois with her two children. For most of her adult life, Anna struggled with painful intercourse. The side effects from her cancer treatment only exacerbated her symptoms after she wondered how she would enter the dating world with these sexual limitations. Anna found she wasn't alone and so she decided to create a dating app that takes sexual expectations out of dating. Don't we need that? The app is called Entwine. Anna, thank you so much for joining us today.
Anna Leonarda_Guest
Thank you for having me.
Talaya Dendy_Host
My pleasure. I am so excited to talk about this topic. It's one that causes a lot of people grief and shame. That's why it's so important to just talk about it out in the open, Anna. Please tell us more about your cancer journey.
Anna Leonarda_Guest
Sure. So when in my younger years, my teenage years, I had endometriosis, and that can cause irregular periods, painful intercourse, and heavy periods, cramping, everything. So I dealt with that. And when I became sexually active, I would notice that it painful. So I would go to the gynecologist and she would say, well, just have a glass of wine and relax. You'll be okay. And I'm thinking, okay, I'm married my twenties and intercourse hurts. What am I supposed to do? So I kind of dealt with the pain. And then I went to another doctor a couple of years later and the same thing. I'm like, my libido is diminishing. It's painful intercourse all the time. And I don't know what to do. And the same thing, have a glass of wine, My friends would be like, well, you're maybe with the wrong person. And I met my ex-husband when I was in eighth grade. So I was with one person all my life. So I'm like, well, I'm not going to go cheat on him to find out if that's what the reason is. So I dealt with the pain for a while and I, I had two kids, thankfully my one's 19, one's 14 now, but, and I, over time I kept dealing with the pain and had at least three or four doctors tell me the same thing. Just relax, just relax. one day I just couldn't have intercourse anymore. And prior to that tampons hurt, like why did the tampons hurt? You know, I thought it was normal. I don't want to talk about it with my friends. It was embarrassing. So I just didn't tell anybody. And then, so I was attempting to have intercourse and nothing would go in. And I was like, what's something's wrong with me? It's like hitting a wall. And so I went to the doctor, a new doctor, and she's like, you have vaginismus. And I'm like, what is that? And she said, well, it's the... muscles in your vagina are involuntarily spasming and it's causing you not to be able to have sex anymore. So I thought, I don't know what the heck that is, but okay. What was the treatment? And she said, well, you have to go to a vaginal therapy or she called it pelvic floor therapy. I'm like, there's therapy for vaginas. You know, I was like, like what? So, and another thing was I was surprised that no one after all those years, I've been going to a doctor and no one ever suggested, why don't you go see a pelvic floor therapist? Right. It could have been, it could have been fixed before it got worse. So when I went to the doctor or to the therapist, I said, why does this happen? And she said, well, here's an example. If somebody came up to you and they punched you in the stomach and every time they saw you, they would punch you in the stomach. Eventually you would just back up tense up and just avoid that. And then the anticipation of pain. So that's what my vagina is doing. So I said, so my vagina broke. That's what I tell everybody. My vagina broke. So, and, and, Not that it's really broken. I mean, it is fixable. There is treatment for it. So there was supposed to be something where I use dilators or five different sizes. You're supposed to insert it for dilators. The size of a pinky is a size one and you leave it in there for 10 minutes a day until there's no pain. And then you take the new move up to the next size. You just keep graduating to up as far as you need to go. The one, the size five was like size. I call it Godzilla size. It was enormous. I don't even know why they create something that large, but so, so yeah, I did the therapy, but then it was just slow, slow process. I would start, you have to be consistent. I wasn't consistent. So. I, then I was in the shower. I was 36 years old and I found a breast lump. So I thought, well, it's probably nothing. I don't have any cancer history. I'm only 36. Just nobody in my family. I don't even know any friends that have cancer. So I thought, well, let me get it checked out. And that's what I did. And I found out I had breast cancer and I didn't realize it, but I had three tumors on my left breast, which was very shocking to me because again, I didn't, I felt like I, I felt healthy. Okay. I thought I looked normal, but I really had tumors inside of me and I couldn't believe it. So my breast cancer was estrogen positive. So the goal was to get rid of all the estrogen in my body. So I went through, I had one side of mastectomy, eventually had a double mastectomy and a total of six surgeries for reconstruction and seven surgery with a, for a total hysterectomy. And I also went through chemotherapy. So I lost all my hair and because estrogen got positive, the goal was to force me into menopause because we don't want any estrogen in my body. So I remember going to the oncologist and he's like, well, when you do this, when we're treating this, we're getting rid of the cancer. In order to do that, we need to get rid of all your estrogen. So you're going to have vaginal dryness. You're going to have lack of libido and it's probably going to be painful intercourse. And I just stared at him. I'm like, I don't think I could get any worse than, you know, cause I've been dealing with this. I never enjoyed sex because it was it was always painful. So I'm like, now it's going to get worse. So, and it did the pain was just like, I mean, not that I even didn't even attempt to do intercourse, but even just try and use my dilators even after the cancer was just like, it hurt too much. And I go back to size one and, and it was such a slow process in the vaginal. So I remember going to the oncologist and I told him, you know, what are the side effects of the chemo? And he's like, well, your breast cancer is estrogen positive. So the goal is to get rid of all your estrogen in your body. and it can cause painful intercourse like a libido and vaginal dryness so I thought well it can't get any worse than that and it sure did so I was pretty uh I mean intercourse was still impossible but even just to use the dilators it was something that I just didn't want to do anymore because it was just I just went back to size one and and uh it was just frustrating it was very frustrating so I'm like okay I took my breasts my uterus is gone I have no sex drive it's and then I'm married, you know, so I'm married for 20 years. And, and I thought, what am I supposed to do? You know, there's other forms of being intimate, but it's just, you know, could of course affect any relationship. But so then I did end up getting divorced after a 20 year marriage, not because of that, but there was other reasons. But so then I thought, what am I going to do? How am I going to date anybody? No one's going to want to be with me. I can't have sex. And just the thought of using the dilators just gave me anxiety. I don't want to use the dilators for somebody else. I want to use it for myself. So it is treatable. I just chose not to treat it anymore. But I thought, you know, it's easier just to stay single. And then I started thinking about like, why did I go through this? There's a reason why I got breast cancer. There's a reason why I had endometriosis broken vagina, the vaginismus and then the cancer. And what is it? And I'm like, this must be something I need to help people like myself that are alone and and wonder, or they're intimidated by traditional dating apps. And I thought, wait a minute, what do guys do that have erectile dysfunction? They have ED. Do they go on regular dates? Do they use regular dating apps? And I found that they do. And my friends would go on regular dating apps with these guys and maybe like the first, second, third date in, the guys will be like, they're in their thirties. And they said, well, I have erectile dysfunction. I'm on, I have diabetes that caused it. I have prostate cancer. I have PTSD, I'm on antidepressants. It's like all these different reasons of why they have erectile dysfunction. And I was like, did you save their number? Because that would be like a perfect mate for me is to have a guy that can't have intercourse. So I thought about that. Again, what kind of pressure those guys have? They would go on these dates and they're probably wondering, when am I going to tell the person that I'm dating that I can't have intercourse? Are they going to reject me? Are they going to embarrass? They're going to, I'm not going to get embarrassed. Are they gonna make fun of me? Who knows what it is? So are they staying single because they're scared and they don't want to be embarrassed anymore? So then I thought, you know, there was true. There was, I started doing research. There's. 30 million men in the U S to have rectal dysfunction and worldwide is approximately 320 million men. So I thought this is a huge problem, but nobody's talking about it. So, so I thought, how do I get these, connect these individuals that have these limitations? How do I connect them in a comfortable, safe environment so that they don't feel like they're going to be rejected and it could just be themselves regardless of their limitations. And so that's why I decided to create a dating app that takes sexual expectations out of, dating and it creates a safe place for individuals like myself that do have limitations to find companionship in a nonjudgmental way so that they don't have to worry about being rejected or embarrassed or having to wonder when should I tell that person that I can't have intercourse and are they going to break up with me or leave me or cheat on me, whatever it is. So I didn't realize how taboo the topic was. I mean, I guess I never talked about my sexual dysfunction until Now I walk around and I'll probably get a shirt that says my vagina is broken. Ask me what that means. But, um, but even just yesterday I was talking to this gentleman and I told him about my app and he's like, what kind of app is this? I told him, you know, explain it to him. And he admitted to me, he's like, you know, I have, I have ED, I have erectile dysfunction and, and I, I don't want to date anybody. I'm scared. And I'm like, well, this app is for you then. He's like, you know, I had, he had open heart surgery and he said he can't take it. Viagra or whatever kind of medication that would help with his ED because it can cause heart problems for him, high blood pressure. So he's, so it was just like, I love not that I wish anybody to have sexual dysfunction, but I love when, when people are like, I'm vulnerable as it is, you know, telling everybody my situation for them to come open and be like, Hey, I have this too. And it's like, Oh, you know, so it's, it's, it's definitely a needed app and, and, It just launched the end of August of 2021. And I have a whole hundred users. I was so excited two days ago, I reached 100. And of course it's not a ton, but when I didn't have any before.
Talaya Dendy_Host
Yeah.
Anna Leonarda_Guest
And since it is a taboo topic, it's very difficult to get the word out. So I'm trying to use social media, I'm trying to join podcasts and it's, but it's all worth it because I feel like, like I said before, you know, I feel like I went through this cancer journey and all the other. sexual dysfunction that I had all my life for a reason. And it's to help these individuals that are lonely and possibly depressed, and they just gave up, they can't date anymore. But there is someone out there that will love them just the way they are.
Talaya Dendy_Host
And that's so true, Anna. And I'm so happy that you created this app because there are so many people that are struggling and suffering in silence. And these are things that we need to talk about. We're all human. And at some point we're going to have some kind of, you know, issue that we'll have to work through with our health. And, um, you know, a lot of times when we are getting cancer treatment or other forms of treatment, like for diabetes, it's almost like a give and take. It's like, okay, in order to treat this problem, we have to create this problem.
Anna Leonarda_Guest
Right.
Talaya Dendy_Host
And, you know, it's unfortunate, but having something like your app in place to help people that, you know, have to go through those things and suffer from those side effects is so important. And one thing that I was thinking about is, well, you know, if you take the sex out of it, when you're meeting someone, you know, and getting to know someone, have you found that it has brought people closer together?
Anna Leonarda_Guest
I think that I haven't had any success stories in the app yet. I just got an email today of people thanking me for the app because they're saying they've been lonely for 15 years and finally they're able to date again. But I found that some people crave the emotional connection rather than the physical, and that's how I am. Like I get more emotionally attached to somebody than physically. And of course, I like the other forms of intimacy and kissing and cuddling and hugging or whatever. And I also that I actually know personally. And when I said, you're on my app, and I was surprised because they're my friends. And I'm like, why are you using my app? I didn't know you had sexual dysfunction. And they said, we don't or I don't because the reason I'm on your app is because I don't want to go on those traditional dating apps because that's all the guys want or the girls want, it's all they want. And I wanted to be with somebody for that emotional connection rather than the physical. And I was like, wow, this app is for anybody.
Talaya Dendy_Host
Yeah.
Anna Leonarda_Guest
Even if you can have intercourse and you're okay with not having it, and you want to have that emotional connection. And it might be even more intense than, you know, so it's... That was nice to see that there's people on there that just want to be with someone because of emotional rather than the intercourse physical part of it.
Talaya Dendy_Host
I think that's so important because, you know, there could be people that, you know, have STDs or something like that, that, you know, they don't want to date anymore. And they're like, well, I have to stay single for the rest of my life because I have this thing that, you know, is now... not really, it doesn't define you, but it's something that they would have to, you know, get out there and talk about if they're dating and share with someone that they choose to be intimate with. I could see your app being a great app for those people as well, because everyone that's getting on the app, I'm assuming is understanding that the focus is not on sex. It's, it's really about coming together and getting to know one another.
Anna Leonarda_Guest
Exactly. Yeah.
Talaya Dendy_Host
I love that.
Anna Leonarda_Guest
And of course, all intimacy is not off the table. It's just intercourse is something that may be possibly when it may not happen. Maybe they both have sexual dysfunction and when they meet, they might decide at the same time to treat their sexual dysfunction. So maybe there's a guy that doesn't want to use penile injections or doesn't want to put a penis penile implant. There's all these options for the guys that maybe they don't want to do the treatment, they'll decide, well, let's work on this together. I mean, we can make this, you know, do the therapy together or whatever. So it's that I can't wait to hear the stories that are going to be start coming in and just, you know, stuff like that, or just even just saying like, you know, people have been single for so long and now they finally found someone that just understands them.
Talaya Dendy_Host
Right. And I'm interested too, to hear more about that. And so you can always come back on the show, you know, cause that's, what helps people to feel like they're not alone is to say, hey, you know, this person went through the exact same thing and they were able to find love. And so sharing those kinds of things are so important. One thing that I'm very curious about, Anna, is when this idea came to you about creating the app, who did you initially share your idea with and what was their response?
Anna Leonarda_Guest
That's a good question. I don't remember who I told. I was very scared to tell anybody because I didn't want someone to be like, that's a stupid idea. You know? So I, I remember telling my ex-husband about it and because he's a, he's a CFO. So he, when I, I remember going up to him with my piece of paper cause I was a stay at home mom before. And I worked part time at a doctor's office as a medical transcriptionist. So I'm like, Oh my God, I'm crazy. What am I doing? What am I doing? I'm, um, I'm about to tell him, I was like kind of nervous. So I'm like, so I thought of this idea and he's just like, this is brilliant. He's like, why did you think about this before when we were married? I'm like, well, because I didn't think about dating, you know? So, so then, and initially I'm very, very shy and lack confidence or I did now I'm just like, watch out. I'm a badass bitch, everybody.
Talaya Dendy_Host
That's okay.
Anna Leonarda_Guest
So, Um, but that's what I needed. I needed people to say like, this is a great idea. This is genius. Cause I, I didn't know. I'm like, I don't think this is a good idea. I think this is over my head. I don't know what I'm doing. So I'm kind of winging it and learning how it does. I go, I don't have, I'm doing this all on my own. I funded this on my own. I got taken advantage of by my first app developers. I almost gave up, but what I would do is when I got discouraged and I thought, okay, you know, I'm not gonna be able to do this. I want to be able to afford it. Then I would talk to somebody about it and then it'd be like, oh my gosh, that's such a great idea.
Talaya Dendy_Host
You know?
Anna Leonarda_Guest
That's genius. And then when I keep hearing that, I'm like, you're right. It's right. You're right. You're right. This is needed. And some people are like, oh, you're going to be rich. Like, I don't care about the money. I think I'm going to feel rich with people telling me, like the emails I'm already getting, this app is amazing. I'm going to finally meet somebody that I've been single for 15 years, or this man had something called Peyronie's disease. where it's abnormal curvature of the penis. And, and he said that he's been single for so long because he says he feels like a fraud to these women because we'll go, we'll go on these dates. And then after like a third, fourth date in, he'll say, I have Peyronie's disease. I can't have sex. There was painful intercourse or whatever it is. And then he said, these women just like, you know, kind of like look at me, like I'm, you know, I have two heads and then just like, they just don't want to talk to me anymore. Now with your app, it gave me hope I could to go on just assume that maybe I can't have intercourse. And then down the road, they can tell them what their limitations are if they wanted to, but it could be even sexual trauma. There's just so many different, that demographic is just, there's a lot of people I need to reach.
Talaya Dendy_Host
That's a little overwhelming. That's true. And, you know, people that have, you know, gone through cancer treatment or, you know, had a hysterectomy for anyone really, like you just said, it offers hope that, you know, there is life after that experience that I went through. Sometimes you feel like, well, I had to give up this to be alive, or I had to do this particular thing to be alive and. You felt like you've given up so much already, but then to see an app like this that gives you hope and say, you know what? I could still get out there and potentially meet my future partner. And so it's needed. So keep going, Anna. Keep doing what you're doing.
Anna Leonarda_Guest
Thank you.
Talaya Dendy_Host
And I just want to applaud you for stepping out there and talking about something that is taboo or people... are kind of hesitant to talk about it because the way sex is portrayed today in society and on TV, but there's so much more to it. And I think that's what your app is saying that, Hey, there's way more than the physical aspect of it. And I think that's important to share as well.
Anna Leonarda_Guest
So after I got divorced, I started going out and meeting new people and, and I wanted to kind of test to see how would it be if I was going to go on a date with somebody? How would that conversation What I would do is if I would meet somebody and the guy would like, Hey, you want to go out? I'm like, let me tell you about this app. I created in this, this condition that I have. So some of them are just extremely insensitive and it just reminds me of why I need to create this app. So, so I'll tell a guy, I can't have sex. And he goes, Oh, that's okay. You have other holes. You know, I heard that three or four times already. And then, or you have, what about anal? It's like, you haven't even bought me a steak dinner yet. And you're asking me if I want to do anal, you know? So I was like, So then, you know, or you have the perfect reason why a guy wouldn't want to be with you or don't ever date anybody or be with anybody. Cause you'll never make them happy. It's like, so I thought there, I'm like, wait a minute, I can handle that. I'm not crying. And, you know, but if somebody hurt, here's that initially they may never want to date again. They're never going to tell anybody about their condition. But for me, I'm just like, this is just a reminder to me as I say, this is needed. Cause there's people out there that have heard all this horrible insensitive comments and I feel like this is their answer is that the Antoine app is that for them. So no, the cards are on a table right away. Intercourse may not be a possibility if that's a problem with you and you need that in a relationship, then don't use my app.
Talaya Dendy_Host
Well said, well said. Anna, you touched on erectile dysfunction. One thing I wanted to ask you is if someone suddenly has ED, what do you suggest they do? Like, you know, what are some of the warning signs or underlying underlying conditions that
Anna Leonarda_Guest
I was learning recently that erectile dysfunction, if somebody just thought of sudden has it, it could be a warning sign. It could be something where they're, they have clogged arteries or about to have a heart attack. They could be having a stroke soon. It just, so if you do find, if there is a guy out there listening or somebody's partner that knows that they're going through this, have them get checked out because it could just be as simple as maybe your blood pressure's off. It doesn't mean that it's cancer right away. It doesn't mean that it's inevitable that, you know, you're always going to have erectile dysfunction. It just could be a warning sign too. So just get it checked out. Don't be embarrassed. The doctors hear about it all the time. So just get it checked out and hopefully, you know, again, it's an easy fix and it's not the end of the world just because you have prostate cancer. It doesn't mean you're going to have permanent ED erectile dysfunction. You're going to, there's other, it's a bunch of treatment out there. My app, some people say it's a dead end app, but it's actually not because it's, there's treatment for men and this treatment for women, and they don't have to do the treatment. So if they don't want to do the treatment, then they use my app. So it's not, that doesn't mean that it's a dead end because I have treatment. I just don't want to, don't want to use it. I just want to do it. But it seemed with the breast cancer too. If, if I found my lump, I got checked out right away. If I waited a few more months or who knows how long I wouldn't be here anymore because it wasn't a fast growing tumor of fast going cancer aggressive and And so anybody out there that does find anything abnormal, something's not right. Just get it checked out. Don't wait. Don't procrastinate because early detection is key for a lot of different conditions or anything that any new symptoms that come up.
Talaya Dendy_Host
Great advice. Thank you. Anna, please share with us how the app works and where they can find it. Of course.
Anna Leonarda_Guest
Sure. If they go to entwinedating.com that's E N T W I N E. dating.com they can download the app for free it is a free app on broad they'll have some premium features available where you'll be able to see who liked you and so you can kind of like interact with them that way so when they go on the website and they download the app they can just put in their, their information, their basic information, their birth date and their, their location. And it will have a heart and a little X next to the picture underneath the picture. And then you can hit hard if you like the person X, if you don't. And then if they like you back, then you'll be able to message them and have a conversation to decide if you would like to meet in person or not. But right now it's like pretty basic app just because it is self-funded. So there's not too many filters in there. So there's not, you don't have to disclose what your limitations are. Even if you have any limitations, you may not even have sexual limitations, but you can put a little information as what would you do for hobbies and everything, but, but you do not have to tell anybody what your limitations are until you meet them. Then it's up to you. So there's no pressure there either.
Talaya Dendy_Host
Wonderful. I like that because everybody is coming on the app for pretty much the same reason in some form or fashion. So why make it initially something that you have to share up front, get to know people. And again, that's another example of this app kind of encourages people to get to know each other first. That's what I like about it. I like that.
Anna Leonarda_Guest
Thank you.
Talaya Dendy_Host
Because like you said, I've heard stories of how some of the other apps work and how things can go bad quickly. And it's like, because we need to get more back to human connection and emotional connection and taking the time to get to know each other because in my mind that's a form of healing too because so many people are are suffering from that it's
Anna Leonarda_Guest
true there i mean even i'm an erectile dysfunction group on support group on facebook and i saw a gentleman post on there i don't know why i'm living anymore No woman will ever want to be with me. I have, I have ED. And then there was other people commenting and saying like, you know, this is a common thing about for veterans that they're, they have PTSD, they have sexual dysfunction and they're suicidal. And they find out like weeks before they committed suicide, they found out that they were actually talking to the therapist about how they're lonely and depressed because of their sexual dysfunction. It's like, I got to reach veterans. I got to reach urologists. You got to reach cancer centers just to see that comments. It's like, oh my gosh, this is heartbreaking. Like just people that are suicidal and they just think there's no hope. And so if they have to hear about my app and it's like I said, it's free. I got to get the word out as quickly as I can. So that's why I'm grateful that you had me on your show to allow me to talk about my story and my app and increase awareness and try to end the taboo or the stigma of sexual dysfunction.
Talaya Dendy_Host
I think it's so important because it's something that unfortunately can have a huge impact on on women for sure, when they go through cancer treatment and men, other kinds of treatment, as you mentioned. And sometimes I've heard stories where people have agreed to have a certain type of cancer treatment, but their healthcare team or their doctor didn't share with them that it could potentially affect their sexual life and abilities. And then they're left wondering, well, what is going on with me? And, you know, maybe they didn't freeze their eggs so that they could have children later because they weren't told that, you know, the treatment could have an effect on them like that. There's so many different things going on. Lack of information, lack of correct information, simply not talking about things, lack of education. Could you please say it for me?
Anna Leonarda_Guest
Vaginismus.
Talaya Dendy_Host
Vaginismus. I never heard of that before.
Anna Leonarda_Guest
I didn't either. Okay. And it's like 7,000 women in Facebook support group that have it. And I just couldn't believe it. I'm like, I'm not alone. Didn't know it.
Talaya Dendy_Host
I've never heard that word before. And I'm just like, wow, we need to know about these things. You know, even if we're not going through it, maybe one of our friends are or one of our family members and just hearing from you and hearing about the psychological effects that it could have on people. It's important that we know about these things. We don't have to be well-versed on them, but we need to know that they exist.
Anna Leonarda_Guest
Right. And there's this thing when I talked to some guys about the app, they're like, they asked me, do you know any of your friends that have sexual dysfunction? No, no, we don't talk about that. I'm like, well, yeah, I know you don't. You know, that's what it is. Like, I think women kind of are a little bit more vocal about it. And I actually met a girl a couple of weeks ago. She was about to get married and I told her about my app and she goes, She goes, you know what I have, it really hurts when I have sex too. And I said, did you go to the doctor? She's like, yeah, I did. And she just told me to have a glass of wine and just to, you know, I just, just too nervous. I'm like, oh my gosh. And she's like, I'm actually bleeding when I have sex. And she told you to have a glass of wine. So I told her we exchanged information. I said, I'm not a doctor obviously, but just go to a different doctor and talk to them about it. Cause that's not, that's got to stop too. This, you know, have a glass of wine and relax. If you're... someone comes up to you and says, this hurts or tampons hurt or whatever. Don't just blow them off. You know, it's just sad that it's actually healthcare professionals that are saying to have a glass of wine. Okay. I'm just going to get drunk. And then you can have sex, Anna.
Talaya Dendy_Host
Yeah. That's, that's odd. Especially if a person is bleeding, that's major, I would assume. Right. You talked about pelvic floor therapy. Where would you recommend people start with getting more information about that?
Anna Leonarda_Guest
I know there's... there's a lot of like, if you go to your gynecologist, you should be able to ask them, who should I go to for pelvic floor therapy? I know there's even websites out there. I'm not sure if there's any specific ones, but they can go on there and type their city and state, and they can find their closest pelvic floor therapists in the area. And they can at least examine them and just find out if they have even a condition, you know, so instead of just getting blown off and getting instructed to get what kind of wine to get at the store.
Talaya Dendy_Host
Yeah, that's bizarre. and unacceptable quite there. It has to be done better than that. I just want to thank you for opening up and talking about this because like you and I, I'm sure there's other people that have never heard of that before, or they know people who have erectile dysfunction, men out there. Anna is someone that is willing to support you. She has the app to support you. I'm glad that you brought this to the show, Anna, because there's one thing that for sure. And there's a lot of men out there that don't want to ask for help. You know, they don't want to be viewed as weak or unmanly. You're a great example that there are people out there that are not judging you. And there are people out there that want to help you so that you can live your best life and be happy. On that note, Anna, is there anything else that you'd like to share?
Anna Leonarda_Guest
I would like to also say, if you are somebody that is going through this and you have have been alone just realize that you, there is someone out there that will understand your, your sexual limitations and you do deserve to be loved and nothing is ever worth ending your life over. So just get the help you need and check out my website. And I hope that you can report back to me and just give me a successful story of, of meeting somebody that that's just the love of your life. Just, I just, I just want to change so many people's worlds. I know that there's a lot out there that are silently struggling.
Talaya Dendy_Host
Thank you, Anna. That's so important. I just can't say it enough. There are people like Anna out there that have resources and her app where she can help you through this. So please don't suffer through this alone. Anna, before we end today, I'd like to ask my guests two questions. And the first one is, what is something that you've learned in life that you would like to share with the listeners?
Anna Leonarda_Guest
I would say to always seek out a second opinion because I did not get a second opinion. I was in a hurry. I trusted everybody. I trust everybody. I changed that lately, but just get a second opinion because I was supposed to have some reconstruction surgery that was going to be horrific. And I trusted my gut and just went to a different doctor and I was scared to. And I don't know what it was, but I just didn't want to get a second opinion. I want that doctor to think bad of me because, so if there is something you're going through with some kind of medical diagnosis, it doesn't hurt to get a second opinion. That's something I definitely wish I, if I went back to my first time diagnosis, I would have definitely reached out to a number of plastic surgeons instead of just sticking to the one that was super arrogant and confident. Great advice, Anna.
Talaya Dendy_Host
There's nothing wrong with. with getting a second opinion, actually it's in your best interest. And I think a lot of people, Anna, feel the way that you mentioned that, you know, Hey, I'm betraying my doctor. It's just that you are just seeking more clarification. You're, you're looking to see if there's a different perspective, a different option that's advocating for yourself and taking care of yourself.
Anna Leonarda_Guest
That's right.
Talaya Dendy_Host
And finally, Anna, what is next for you?
Anna Leonarda_Guest
Well, my... App is actually only available right now initially in the U.S. So my goal is to have it available worldwide. I hope that's soon because I already had people from Canada, UK, Australia, India, asking me, when is this app going to be available in my country? So that is one of my ultimate goals is to do that where it's available to everybody, because I don't want to tell anybody, no, it's not available in your country, but hopefully soon.
Talaya Dendy_Host
Wonderful. And besides your website, if people want to connect with you or learn more about you, would you like to mention any other? social media sites or anything like that, where they can find you? Sure. Thank you. They can reach me on Instagram at entwine underscore dating, and then also Facebook and Twitter at entwined dating. Wonderful. And I will include that information in the listen notes. Please look Anna up, especially if you or someone you know is struggling with sexual dysfunction or any of the other conditions that Anna mentioned. Just it's important to number one, know that the help and support is out there. Don't limit yourself. Don't be afraid. You can't go wrong just learning more about the app and giving it a try. And I want to thank you so much for joining me today.
Anna Leonarda_Guest
Thanks again for having me.
Talaya Dendy_Host
My pleasure. And listeners, it's so important that we have these conversations. I just can't say that enough. And I want to again applaud Anna for being vulnerable, talking about a very private and it could be a tricky subject to talk about. And so use Anna as an example that it's okay to share the things that you're going through and struggling with because it can help someone else. Anna, I just wish you the best with everything. Thank you very much. You're welcome. And before we end today, I'd like to give a shout out to the listeners. That is it for this Wednesday. Thank you so much for joining us. And until next time. Let's keep navigating cancer together. Take care. Thanks for listening to this episode of Navigating Cancer Together. I hope you enjoyed it. Please be sure to subscribe. And if you appreciate the show, drop a positive rating and review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. For notes from the show, visit ontheotherside.life and check out the podcast section. After you check out the show notes, head over to my gift shop and show yourself or someone special in your life some love with gifts of encouragement, hope, and positive affirmations. I would love it if you joined us for the next episode. Talk to you soon.

About Navigating Cancer TOGETHER

Upon receiving a cancer diagnosis, the patient typically faces many challenges, including feeling confused, overwhelmed, and alone. All of them are emotionally draining!

Listen and subscribe now to navigate cancer TOGETHER!

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

About Navigating Cancer TOGETHER

Upon receiving a cancer diagnosis, the patient typically faces many challenges, including feeling confused, overwhelmed, and alone. All of them are emotionally draining!

Listen and subscribe now to navigate cancer TOGETHER!

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

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