Transcription

• Speaker #0

  your brain's going to have a downtime and either it's scrolling you're going to feel bad about or it's going to be a fun thing on purpose.

• Speaker #1

  Welcome to Neurodivergent Spot. I'm your host, Sam Marion. My pronouns are he, him, and I am a multiply neurodivergent therapist, speaker, and creator. My work focuses on all things neurodiversity, but my particular interests are in autism, ADHD, learning differences, and learning disabilities. Today's guest is Brittany Smith. Brittany. Will you please introduce yourself to the listeners?

• Speaker #0

  Hi, I'm Brittany Smith. I'm an ADHD productivity and technology coach. I also make content along those same lines. I like to help people work better and be happier with the brains they have. And my background is cognitive neuroscience.

• Speaker #1

  Before we continue, I've got a quick disclaimer. This podcast is for information purposes only and should not be seen as a replacement for therapy, healthcare, or legal advice. What is cognitive neuroscience? Quick definition.

• Speaker #0

  It's actually the weenie part of neuroscience because we do it the how you're thinking. We don't actually cut open brains.

• Speaker #1

  Got it. Okay. Appreciate the quick definition there. So we're going to dive in with the questions. Reminder for listeners, you're going to have 60 seconds for each question. They don't get to see it, but you get to watch a timer countdown as we do it. And I get to watch as you answer. while watching the timer. So here we go. Question number one, Brittany, what has your journey with neurodivergence looked like?

• Speaker #0

  I got diagnosed with ADHD while I was in undergrad and I used all of my studying of cognitive science to try to help me work better. And as I've gone along, I've found different ways that have helped me work better. And then as I became a coach, different ways that help other people work better. And I learn more about things as I meet more interesting people and as I get to study more.

• Speaker #1

  Was there something in undergrad that led you to understand ADHD?

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. Yeah. First, my brother was diagnosed and we're almost the same. And then I had to write a paper and I couldn't work on it the night before. And I was like, well, that's fine. Because I have to work that day. I'll work on it the day before that. And I got rid of all the distractions. And it still wasn't happening because I wasn't close enough to the deadline. I was like, oh, something's missing here. So I went in for evaluation.

• Speaker #1

  So the classic experience of classic strategy is not working for somebody the way everybody says they should. Oh, just start early. It'll be fine.

• Speaker #0

  And it started early. I was just. you know, oh, I got distracted or I was doing these other things, whatever. And it didn't occur to me that there was actually something magical about being close to the deadline.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah. My, in terms of writing my words per minute, uh, really increases the closer to the deadline that I get.

• Speaker #0

  Yep. I was like, I've written, I've written a paper in six hours before I can totally do that. I didn't know I couldn't do it three days ahead of time.

• Speaker #1

  Um, yeah. Any, any. the idea of like the false deadline. We'll just pretend it's due the day earlier. I can trick myself on lots of things, but that's not one that I can convince myself on.

• Speaker #0

  All right,

• Speaker #1

  let me keep going. Next question. This is a fun one. And clearly I've been through your website. I pulled some questions, stuff from there. You describe yourself as a Jedi brain master who helps people understand their cognitive functioning. What's one common misconception people have about productivity and the brain?

• Speaker #0

  That we can trick ourselves into working more, more, more, more, more. That we can find a way around those natural breaks that our brain needs to recuperate. That we could get around sleep. That we could get around having hobbies, having things that we love to do. Because we will not work as efficiently when we're not happy.

• Speaker #1

  I feel sort of called out by you today, Brittany. I kind of think maybe I can get around those things that my brain needs. Until I can't.

• Speaker #0

  Yep. Yep.

• Speaker #1

  How often, side question here, how often in your work do you have people say something basically just like that?

• Speaker #0

  If they're too hard into it, I actually wonder if we can work together or not. But when I'm like, hey, you know how you were scrolling and not doing the thing you wanted to? What if we did the thing you wanted to first and fed your brain? First, like teach your brain that you eat, that you get to do fun things because guess what? Your brain's going to have a downtime and either it's scrolling. You're going to feel bad about, or it's going to be a fun thing on purpose. So if we assume that breaks happening one way or the other, maybe let's plan to do the one you actually want.

• Speaker #1

  I find that if I don't give myself breaks, then my brain is going to make me take a break.

• Speaker #0

  Yep. Yep. It will. It'll find a way. Brains find a way.

• Speaker #1

  yeah i mean i i get into i find myself like in burnout and i've realized recently actually um that when my brain is in about some amount of burnout that the one of my indicators is um how much more time certain tasks take um yep early in 2025 early in the year uh i was trying to accomplish something took me like 45 minutes that normally does not take me all that long The same task about two or three weeks later, I, it was getting, I was putting together questions for podcast interviews and then sending them out to people's going to interview a few weeks later. I did three people in 20 minutes, a few weeks prior, it was one person at 45. And it was that like, Oh, okay. My brain, I really was as burned out as I thought I was as I'm getting back into this rhythm.

• Speaker #0

  One thing I realized in graduate school was, um, it wasn't that I didn't have time to exercise. I didn't have time to not exercise because I worked so much more efficiently when I was getting exercise regularly. And then that was the motivator that I actually needed to do it was like, oh, I can't afford to just stare at the page miserably.

• Speaker #1

  Yep. That makes a lot of sense to me. I'm going to keep going here. Next question. You've spoken about ADHD and technology. In what ways do you think technology is an equalizer for neurodivergent individuals? And where does it still fall short?

• Speaker #0

  Before we can make it be a helper, we first have to get rid of the extra distractions. So if I get the vibe that like, you know, your game's notifying you all the time and that's causing a problem or like, so the first thing I'll want to do is make sure we're closing off the notifications that are problematic. But then there are tools that help with accessibility. Timers. We do not have great internal clocks as ADDers. Um, if somebody is on the techier side, we may create some automations for routines because then it like turns on the timer for you. You don't have to use the willpower to do it. So like I've, because I am nerdy, I've created a lot of ways to like have the thing do it for me so that I don't have to use my own internal willpower to do it, just start the thing. But yeah, we have to get rid of the distractions first and then we can find appropriate tools that are helpful.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah. That one makes a lot of sense. Um, I. I have a really hard time understanding how people can tolerate so many notifications on their phone. As a therapist, people sit in my office and their phone will buzz. And I'm just thinking, how do you exist with that? How is it not just distracting everything?

• Speaker #0

  It's hard to wear of it, but it obviously is. Excuse me. It obviously is.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, that's, there are very few things that I allowed, like notifications to come through. on my phone because it is such a distraction. So that, that one makes a lot of sense starting there. All right. Last question here for someone who struggles with getting started on tasks. What's one simple yet effective way to break through resistance and build momentum.

• Speaker #0

  Number one advice for all ADDers is. Co-working or body doubling, getting the support you need to do the thing. Sometimes there's other forms of accountability that work, but if you're just like, I've got this problem, I don't have time to pick it apart or solve it. It just needs to be done. It's body doubling. If the person, like, and you can go up and like, is a stranger working on something else good enough? Nope. Okay. How about somebody, you know, that's not judgmental actually doing it with you and helping you write that email and like bouncing the ideas off it with you. Like. Getting somebody else involved is going to be the fastest way to get that one thing done. There's other solutions, but like somebody says, you're only allowed to give one piece of advice. That's going to be it every time. Other people.

• Speaker #1

  I want to add on to that. That is also effective for a parent to do that with a kid or adolescent who's got homework to get done.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, the dynamic between them matters a lot.

• Speaker #1

  True.

• Speaker #0

  Between whether or not it's a, this is removing my burden or this is. adding a burden, right? Because... There's so much overthinking. There's so much rejection sensitivity. A lot of those voices telling us we can't do it, they get drowned out by another person being there a little bit. But if we're concerned that person is judging us, whether they are or not, the thing may get done, but it might be a higher stress as opposed to a lower stress event.

• Speaker #1

  You know, yeah, that makes sense what you're saying. And with parents, sometimes the hard thing for me to point out to them is I'm not saying sit there and stare at your kid as they do their work or like try to help them. I'm saying get your computer or whatever you need to get done. You sit at the same table or sit nearby and do your work. Yeah. Just like be present. If they say, hey, mom, hey, dad, can you help me? Okay. Then you shift your attention that way. But just be present. They're doing your thing too. Side by side. And really big on like,

• Speaker #0

  let them know this is helping you too.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, I'm big on things that help kids. They also help us as adults. Yeah. Kids don't know it's okay to need these things unless we showed them and we demonstrate and we were open with them. Yeah. Hey, look, this is I'm doing this because this is helping me.

• Speaker #0

  Well, and let's let's help stave off that mentality. I should be able to do it on my own. I mean, that's not going to help them as they get older. What we want is I want the thing done. I'm. I'm willing to accept whatever tools make that easier or doable.

• Speaker #1

  And the earlier in life that people can learn some of these, these truths about themselves that they do better if they have somebody nearby or, you know, whatever it may be, the more effective, like they can be in these endeavors, but also, yeah, that's from the stigma and some of the negative self-talk that, that is there over time, the earlier they can embrace it. And this is just how my brain works and that's fine. Yeah, that's, it can be really powerful.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah.

• Speaker #1

  Any advice on how people can find somebody for body doubling if maybe they don't have a coworker or, you know, family member nearby to do that?

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, there's different communities. I mean, I do have a community that has a body doubling part of it, the ADHD Guild, but there's other ones too. There's Focusmate. There's, there's a lot of different options out there. Um, if you're looking for like somebody to work with, they're going to be working on their own thing. So if you need the higher level where somebody is like doing it with you, that's going to come in a different form of support. Somebody, you know, like my clients, when something's really, really hard, they'll bring it and we'll work on it together in a coaching session. Uh, it just depends on, and what's the best fit for them for that task.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah. Got it. I appreciate you sharing some of the resources. Um. This is normally when we'd go back and pick something to deep dive a little bit longer or a little bit more. So of the questions that I've asked you, is there one that you think we could return to for a little bit more discussion?

• Speaker #0

  We could talk a little bit more about the technology.

• Speaker #1

  All right. Where can we go with that? What do you want to talk about?

• Speaker #0

  So there are tools. There's tools if somebody has dyslexia. that make reading easier. My favorite tool still exists, but I don't like the developer as much, which is a voice stream reader for having like tools to read with. If somebody is nerdy and wants to get into like automation stuff, tools on, I'm Apple technology. There's shortcuts, which is on phone, iPad, Mac. And then there's Keyboard Maestro, which is on Mac. And those are ones I use a lot. because I find it easier to have the computer help me with it than to just check a checklist, if that makes sense. Like, checklist is kind of dry, whereas, oh, you just opened the app for me. Why thank you, computer. That was helpful. Getting over a cold. And then there's a lot of timers we can use, but if you're having a hard time, It's really the willpower piece. If somebody is like of a mindset that would do automation, that's so helpful. Like I should be listening to this learning podcast every day, but instead I'm listening to my true crime podcast. And so maybe you have a routine that's set up. It turns on your timers for you for your routine so you don't get lost. And it also plays the podcast you'd rather listen to while you look at your tasks in the morning. Maybe it opens the app you were going to look at. And so we don't have to like, oh, I got to remember to do that. Now I got to find it. Like those are these little pings that can be reduced when we're able to put things all together in a little automation.

• Speaker #1

  How does a person find a balance between getting too focused on automating too many things and they get so distracted away from actually accomplishing stuff with like, no, this is useful?

• Speaker #0

  Some one, if you have to take breaks in automation, for starters, like otherwise rabbit holes just happen. But also finding the fastest way to do it in the automation that still gets the result. So I could do something really complicated, say with Keyboard Maestro, that's going to like click all the right buttons. But especially on something like, you know, the YouTube backend, which is something that I'll automate because I make videos. YouTube changes that and then my button changes. And so sometimes instead of doing that complex programming, it's better to just flash up a little alert that says, click this button now. And so that would be the fastest way is like to figure out. what's the minimum automation? And then if it's still bothering me, I can fix it later. I know people who have part of their week dedicated to that and they try not to do it outside of that part of their week. Like, hey, you know, Friday afternoons, I have some, what was the word he was using? Like personal efficiency improvement time. If there's shortcuts, I tend to edit them while I'm exercising on the elliptical that I realized not everybody does that. Some people would fall down, but. that that's worked for me is that I'll try to do those or I'll try to do them on a walk because I am pretty good at not tripping on stuff, looking at a device. I realized that's not everybody. Uh, so sometimes people have like a specific, this is, this is my personal operations improvement time and to try to not let it go outside of that time. Um, but yeah, trying to keep them because, uh, one of the wonderful things with ADHD is we tend to overcomplicate things. We're really good at it. Um, But so sometimes like writing out in advance, like what's the simplest way? What's the simplest version of this? And knowing it can become more complex later.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, I guess you hit it right there at the end where I found myself, maybe even like the driver for the question is that overcomplication and overthinking and sometimes good enough is good enough or like simple less is more, things like that. can be a really helpful mindset. I find for me personally that you put some words to some of that for me.

• Speaker #0

  Never underestimate that little alert or like thing that just says, hey, this is what you do next. Because if the goal of the automation is to take the effort off your mind, all you need to do is be told the next step. It doesn't necessarily need like to bring a JSON script in to do it for you. If that's going to end up taking as long as the rest of the automation.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, you know, it's funny saying this, sort of have something to tell you what to do next. I find when I take the time, if I've got a morning in my office and I'm just going to try to get some admin stuff done, whatever. If I take time the night before and I write out, here's the order in which to do these things.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah.

• Speaker #1

  I'm so much more productive. And in some of it, it's, I can't list out answer emails. It's listing out who to respond to first, second. Third, and some of the tasks that I will write out are not that in-depth of tasks. But for me to write out that, you know, it just makes a difference because making a decision can just be so taxing.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. Now, for people who have what I like to call a very overactive inner teenager, they can't do it in that order, even if they wrote the order down. And so for them, I say, like, think of it as a menu. but still write them down in that amount of detail, like a menu you choose from, which am I going to do? But it's that keeping one of the big things with ADHD is smaller working memory. If you look at my IQ score, my working memory is well below average. Well, the rest are good. And so being aware that like, I can't track small little items well, they will not live in my head for very long. And so trying to get the willpower to... do them while also trying to remember them or decide on them. Like this is not doing ourselves a service. So the smaller it is, sometimes the more important it is to write down.

• Speaker #1

  Yep. Yeah. That a lot of that resonates. I feel pretty seen today. We'll say it like that. Instead of just called out, right? How about that? I'll try to keep it positive for me. But I think this is. I hope that people are hearing this and there is a lot of affirmation and that you're not alone, right? That some of these, again, like less is more, right? Listing out a few things or having something that says, all right, this is what's next can go a long way for people, you know, in accomplishing tasks because sometimes trying to figure out which one, and this is, some people can have that listed out and they follow ABCD and some people are going. All right, this is ABCD. So I'm going to start with C because I'm just going to do that. And that's okay. It's all valid.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. Yeah.

• Speaker #1

  So this has been a fun conversation. I really appreciate you joining me today, Brittany. For anybody listening who's like, hey, I'd like to learn more from Brittany. It sounds like she, you know, your content stuff. How can they find you? How can they, how can they learn from you?

• Speaker #0

  The most like just basic one is my website. It's conquer.consulting. That is. the top level domain. There's no.com or anything after it. Just conquer.consulting. And on a lot of the social platforms, I'm ADD liberator, ad liberator, but with the extra D.

• Speaker #1

  Got it. Brittany, thank you so much for sharing with us. Thanks for being here. And guys, I will have all of those links in the show notes, so you can go check it out there to get more information. And thank you for listening to Nerd Avergent Spot. I'm your host, Sam Arian. If you enjoyed it, today's episode, I hope that you'll subscribe, share. And if you want to find me online, you can find me on Instagram at nerdemergencespot. From there, you can find all my other places online.