- Speaker #0
I also really realized the power of stepping into my own community in every way that I can.
- Speaker #1
Welcome to Nerdivergent Spot. I'm your host, Sam Marion, and I am a multiple nerdivergent therapist, speaker, and creator. My work focuses on all things nerdiversity with particular interest in autism, ADHD, learning differences, and learning disabilities. Today's guest is Aaron Alexander. Erin, will you please introduce yourself to the listeners?
- Speaker #0
Yeah. Hi, Sam. Thanks for having me. My name is Erin. I am a mother to three children, five and under, one of which has an autism diagnosis. I am neurodivergent myself, and I am also a registered nurse. I created an online space on Instagram, a platform there to advocate for awareness, acceptance, and inclusion.
- Speaker #1
Before we continue... I've got a quick disclaimer. This podcast is for information purposes only and should not be seen as a replacement for therapy, healthcare, or legal advice. Aaron, I'm really glad you're here today. I really appreciate you joining me. And just to go and put it out there, in the show notes will be links to your page because that is absolutely a wonderful page that you've created there. But let's dive in. Question number one here, same as for everybody else. What has your neurodivergent journey looked like?
- Speaker #0
Yeah, so when I was six, I was diagnosed with ADHD. And I think that, from what I understand from my parents, came about from kind of some behavioral challenges they were noticing. And so they wanted to get me some support. So I got that diagnosis at six, and my parents kind of disagreed on the diagnosis. I didn't really learn much about it. Um, and until I was really an adult and had kids of my own. And then my first child got their autism diagnosis and we navigated that. And then I had a second child who was also showing neurodivergent traits, but in a very, in a different way, in a different presentation. And so I kind of started doing some more questioning with my parents and, you know, my mom was like, oh yeah, you were also identified for gifted education. And then, you know, as I... A couple of years went by, probably two years of learning about autism, reading books, lived experience, diagnostic criteria, taking self-assessments came to the realization that I am also autistic.
- Speaker #1
What has that been like for you since you came to the realization about yourself?
- Speaker #0
Really healing in a big way. allows me to, I mean, it just gives so much clarity, not only for my own life, but generationally, the difficulties that our family dynamic has navigated makes a lot more sense now, whether that be, you know, addiction, or there's just a lot of, there are a lot of family dynamics and relationship difficulties that make so much more sense now. And in terms of for my own healing And it's been a really interesting journey to look at the way I was parented and actually to see a lot of strengths. I think my parents did a lot of things right without a lot of information. They didn't have, you know, like the internet and the lived experience that we get to learn, the benefit of learning from. And I think, turns out my mom is also, you know, late, multiply neurodivergent. And so she kind of went off her own personal experiences and thankfully, and her own gut, despite kind of what the major... you know, fields of study or thinking about parenting at the time might have been. So I'm very thankful for that. And I kind of use that as a guide now to when I'm in my own journey in parenting and kind of deviating from what might be typical parenting norms.
- Speaker #1
I love that your word was healing. You know, there's a lot of reflection, and you've described that, and that's... Thank you very much. That's a theme of the podcast. People talking about being late identified and this reflection back through life of like, oh, now that makes sense kind of thing. And these weird moments that suddenly aren't weird anymore. Now that makes sense, right? And that's a lot of the work I do clinically. It's been my own life experience of when I recognize my own autism in particular is when I found myself reflecting back like, okay, because I picked up an ADHD diagnosis. early in college. But it didn't feel like the full picture. So I kind of rejected it until I understood the autism piece. And then I was like, okay, now, now I get it.
- Speaker #0
Definitely. That was a similar experience for me too. I was like, all right, that checks off, that checks off. But I. Also feel like just in my life, I had either been around other diagnosed ADHDers or undiagnosed ADHDers. And I was like, I'm like you, but there's something that's not giving the full picture here. And yeah, once I learned about autism and bearing presentations, I was, everything made sense. Why relationships either worked or didn't work, you know, it just all became more clear.
- Speaker #1
Yep. Yep. Got it. I'm going to keep moving here. Next question. How is your neurodivergence or how has or how does it impact your experience as a registered nurse?
- Speaker #0
Yeah, so I think initially before I really felt empowered to better understand myself and my needs, I really could only see my neurodivergence affecting my work in a negative way. You know, whether that be with auditory processing or, you know, not really being able to connect the same way or share the same communication style as my coworkers, like jokes going over my head. you know, things like that, or just, you know, always being on the move or fidgeting or, you know, missing executive functioning challenges, feeling like you were impeding me. I really could only see the negative, but now that I have a better understanding of myself and my needs and how to accommodate myself, I really can see the strengths. Specifically, I think as a registered nurse, when it comes to assessment and preventing a Probably pattern recognition is the biggest strength and just preventing negative outcomes in a timely way because I have been able to, you know, take all that data, put it together, and I can see kind of what's coming before it comes and I can intervene appropriately. I think that's one of the bigger ways. And in a second way, I think would be having a deeper understanding of the different ways that people communicate, whether that be verbally, non-verbally, or... the way that someone's nervous system impacts their behavior. And so being able to co-regulate with my patients has also hugely impacted my practice and in a really positive way.
- Speaker #1
I just want to sort of put this out there right now, and I know circle back at the end, but for people listening, I just want to say like on your page on Instagram, you put out this, You share a lot of these experiences. And... And it really, I think, pretty authentic, transparent way, as far as I can tell. And so for anybody listening who's like, oh, I got to relate. I hope they will go check out your page and the content you create because and it's not just this topic. But as we go through this whole interview, this my questions came from that. Right. And so I think there's really powerful way that you you show these experiences. So I just wanted to put that out there before I forget again. Thanks. Next question, though, as a neurodivergent parent, so we're talking about your experience as a nurse, but how about as a parent of neurodivergent kids? How do you balance sort of everything? Make sure you're able to support all these people who you're in this supportive roles for, including yourself.
- Speaker #0
Yeah, this has been a journey in learning. I think at the beginning, I really, truly felt I could do it all. I should do it all. And if I couldn't do it all, you know, like, I don't care. I don't want to be human. Everyone kept saying, you're only human. You don't do so much. Well, I don't care. I want to, I don't want to be human. I want to be able to do it all perfectly, a hundred percent. And then kind of found myself in a place of burnout and quick, really quickly realized I couldn't do that. And if I was going to be the best parent for my kids and really give them the support they needed, that I was going to have to start prioritizing myself and my needs, which meant you know, setting boundaries, whether that be with social media and how much time I spent there or, you know, with people who took energy rather than giving me energy. So it's this balance. And mostly my kids, I feel like I will step over my own boundaries just to provide for my kids because I feel that they need it. But what I've realized is that's actually doing them a disservice because when I'm doing too many things and not feeding myself, I'm not in a place. to help co-regulate. I'm not in a place to be the parent that I want to be and live out my values and model my values. So I've really had to step back and model self-advocacy and say, I love that you're so excited to do that together, or I can't wait to do that with you, but I need to eat first and then we're going to do that. Let me set this timer. This is how much time, you know, whatever that might look like.
- Speaker #1
Setting boundaries with small children is tough.
- Speaker #0
Yeah, it is. It takes, it takes, they push back. I mean, a three-year-old is going to push back on something like that. That's like totally developed Melanie normal. And it's been a practice. And I feel like with repeated practice and everyone feeling the benefits of having a regulated, whether it be a communication partner or a play partner, whatever, a regulated parent, I think over time, that boundary has become easier for them because everyone is. seeing and feeling the benefits of that.
- Speaker #1
You know, in my clinical practice, I see a lot where parents, especially in the sort of grab on to some of the lower demand type approaches, and, you know, you and I are the same generation, right? So we are in a generation of people that are raising kids through like gentle parenting that seems to sometimes go too far in my view. And where, what I run into is people who didn't set boundaries with their kids when they were you know two three four five and then it became that much harder to set boundaries later on um definitely it just gets harder it does yeah and our on it those boundaries are going to look so different for each family um and
- Speaker #0
based on people's you know needs and and their own values and all that stuff but um Yeah, our boundaries have changed, too. Like, there were certain things I was okay with, and then once I had two and three kids, or once I returned back to the bedside, you know, my capacity was limited, and my boundaries had to change. And so that was an adjustment for my kids, too, but it was also a learning lesson for them. You know, it's okay for things to change, and, you know, we'll work through it.
- Speaker #1
You know, I think the part of that that's really big that you're not using this language, but I think what you're sort of implying, though. It is the predictability that when we say to a child, let's set the timer, I'm going to eat. And when the timer goes off, we're going to do the thing. And then we follow through and do the thing we said we were going to do. And so they trust us on the other side of that. We're not just going, I will do that later. And they just kick the can on the road and never actually do it. But, you know, that's the kids trust that when mom says this, this is what mom means. And that's powerful.
- Speaker #0
Definitely. There is definitely a... think a safety and security in seeing that my parent is doing what they say they're going to do and they're able to kind of the next time they hear that boundary relax a little bit and see that through because they know it is going to be followed through um
- Speaker #1
so i'm going to keep moving the last question here and everything we've talked about i could just dive into that but that's always the case my interviews here um but you you're engaged in multiple forms of advocacy Uh, and that's also part of your page. Um, and I'm just going to start my other question that I sent you before, but I have a follow up. Uh, how do you decide when and where to put your energy?
- Speaker #0
Yeah, this has been a journey in learning as well. Um, when I first started my page, I kind of just dive in. That was where all my focus was. And then, um, you know, as, as we have more children, as my life changed as my own home. needs changed. I kind of had to step back from the online space and really dive into more learning because I had to figure out how to support my own children and then further share, you know, disseminate that information, what I was learning, because I felt like that would have a great impact for other families. But not at the expense of, you know, I want to do that not at the expense of my own mental well-being, you know. So that's been a balance and it's really I find it especially challenging lately because while online advocacy can have a really big reach, I did find there was just kind of a lot of back and forth and like, are we really moving the needle here? And yes, I do think, of course, that creating awareness and sharing information online is a great way to do that. I also really realized the power of stepping into my own community. in every way that I can, even if it's the smallest way, like co-regulating with another parent at the grocery store who's having a hard time or, you know, finding local groups or being that local group that meets at a park that is a safe space for parents with autistic kids, for their kids to be around other autistic kids. So figuring out ways in person and in our communities that we can have reach as well as on the online spaces. So that's my current balance right now that I'm navigating.
- Speaker #1
I think that's wonderful. The idea of make sure investing locally, because sometimes it does seem like it's easier to invest at this wide scale, you know, online, some of that, as opposed to the local spaces. But, you know. With sort of everything happening, right? We are recording this. It's early in the morning where you are, right? Earlier in the week, CDC released the updated autism numbers. And as we're recording this, yesterday is when our health secretary went publicly to talk about autism, you know, ruins lives, tears families apart. And, you know, this is a time when it's... It is hard. Like I'm sort of dreading my day ahead of clinical practice because I know the families that are going to come in to my office. And so balancing all of that, this, I wonder, quite frankly, were we going to reschedule again because I know you protect your boundaries. And that's been a powerful thing. And it would have been fine. So as all these levels are happening, how do you. make sure you're balancing all of that? Because I know I have listeners to this podcast who wrestle with all these different levels of balance.
- Speaker #0
Well, one of the biggest things I'm trying to do lately, and people will probably notice it on my page, is I'm slowing down. I am taking more time to process the information that I've received. It's really easy, I feel like, when things happen to react. And I'm really trying to make it a practice of mine, even If it might feel good initially to react, is it going to be the most helpful? And especially as an audience grows, I want what I share to be meaningful and not do harm in any way. So I'm really taking that, even if it's unintentionally, you know, sometimes things happen. So I'm really trying to take accountability and ownership and of what I can control in my space and just try to put that out there. So that might look like, you know, slowing down posts, but that's where I'm at.
- Speaker #1
I think more creators would benefit from doing that.
- Speaker #0
Yeah, it's hard because those creators don't get elevated, you know. I've seen that with my own. The reach declines when you start talking about things that might possibly ruffle feathers or, like, get into the realm of, you know. things that people disagree on, but in a meaningful way. It seems like anything that's sensationalized or not nuanced gets, you know, what is it called? Viral, goes viral. It lacks so much nuance. And the reason it does is because it causes a lot of bickering and whatnot, but kind of stepped away from that because there is a lot of nuance, especially in the autism and neurodiversity space. And, you know, we should be listening to people who have experiences that are different than our own and thinking critically about that. before we just post.
- Speaker #1
Yeah, and maybe this is unfair for me to drag you into a whole conversation about creators, right? But it is real, you know? And the ability to sustain posting, right? My social media is a very small amount of what I do. I make a living in clinical practice. This podcast is a hobby, right? You know, and so like how to keep producing. with, it feels like a flood against the neurodivergent community, the disability community in the last three months, uh, that it's, it is a lot, right. And it's, I've seen my own Instagram page drop down to, uh, sort of one point in time, I was about 10% of activity of what are, uh, what I was seeing back like December kind of thing. It just plummeted because of, you know, um, and I I think it's a balance of... Things that I said that maybe didn't go along with certain views and the ability to sustain and what that does. And I think the people, unless you're sort of living in any amount of creator space, you don't realize that.
- Speaker #0
Yeah, no, I feel the same. And I really felt like for a while there just stopping. I can't. It was just it just felt too much. And so now I'm just kind of I'm here. For us, for parents who are walking in a similar journey, and this is like part of our community. I see it as like an extension of my community, and I'm not here to like engage with the stuff that's, you know, the stuff that's out there that's distracting. I'm here for the people who, you know, have similar values and beliefs, and we want to learn and grow together and support our kids. And we're committed to creating, you know, advocating for awareness. creating inclusive spaces and systemic change really to help better support.
- Speaker #1
autistic and other neurodivergent people that's why i say yeah and i'm glad you do i think it's like i said i think it's really powerful uh normally like i would have just stopped and said hey is there somewhere that we've talked about that you want to go back and deep dive a little bit further uh so i still want to give you that opportunity uh is there a topic we've sort of touched on that you think would benefit from going a little bit deeper in conversation um probably like the
- Speaker #0
balancing needs or or you know between parents and kids kind of stuff I think that's a big one that a lot of parents um struggle with myself included um are there are there little things I mean boundary setting is not little right as we thought about that like little things you've found go a long way yeah so sticking to a consistent meal schedule um for me because I just will either work through or won't even feel sensations of hunger until I'm like yelling at everyone. And then just, I think a lot of, I think in my mind, I had it like I was going to have these massive amounts of breaks or relief that were really going to help me kind of recover and regain, you know, what I needed as a parent to feel like regulated again. But it's really less about that and more about like just the micro moments of each day. of just like not letting your cup run dry. And so just, even if it's just a little top off here and there every couple hours, I feel like that has really, it sounds silly, but, you know, taking five minutes to read five pages of my book or whatever, 10, you know, whatever that looks like, those micro moments throughout the day have really, really helped in like sustaining regulation for me.
- Speaker #1
You know, But... I work with so many families that I find that even doing that seems like such an uphill battle for people or people who feel like, but my kid can't be okay. I need to be right there. You know, a big one, it's okay to lock the bathroom door. Yeah. It's okay to not like, you know, things like that, right? There's so many little of like, no, that is okay. Yeah. And if it means like waiting on a co-parent to be around as well and immediately pass off, yeah, that is okay.
- Speaker #0
Yeah, you know, sometimes it's not always uninterrupted like me time, you know. Sometimes our time, there is one child that is always with us. It's very, unless we have a babysitter, it's very rare that we ever get like complete alone uninterrupted time. And so sometimes that looks like us wearing noise canceling headphones. sitting next to each other on the couch and the other child, and then our child is there, you know, clapping and scripting and watching their show. And we still have found a way, that's still, we have found a way to regulate our nervous systems. Or sometimes it looks like doing something that is regulating to everyone, like going on a family walk, you know, sure, would I rather just veg out on the couch and like scroll on my phone? Like maybe that might, you know, feel really good, but we out of necessity have had to find. other ways that include our children sometimes that still regulate our nervous system and bring, you know, bring about like a better sense of well-being for the whole family. You know, and it wasn't always easy to get there. It took time again and consistency to build that routine of like what going on a walk looks like and feels like for our kids to really buy in. Initially, it was us saying, hey, we need a break. We're going on a family walk. everyone's kicking and screaming trying to get get them dressed and get out of the door. And then we do it and everyone feels better. And it took doing that repeatedly over and over for everyone to realize, hey, this is good for me. I actually like this. You know, this is going to be a part of my practice too.
- Speaker #1
You know, I think the walk is a good example just because it's... The movement can be so powerful for people. But the other part that I think about, and I say this to families all the time, when we try to be really rigid around screen time, I'm somebody who I'm a proponent of. If you need a break, that's a good time to let screens be a babysitter for a few minutes. It'd be better for your kid to get an extra 10 minutes of screen time today while you go and sit in the quiet for a few minutes. That would be better for your kids than that. Reducing the screen, you know, some of that balance. And I see so many people really like hold this standard that seems impossible.
- Speaker #0
Yeah, no. And I think it's like, okay, if I'm going to use a screen to help me meet my own needs right now, that I'm just giving them the screen and they can do whatever they want. It's like, no, we can still define boundaries within what screen time looks like. Okay. We can block certain channels. We can still use a visual timer and we can still be consistent to, I need an extra 10 minutes. And so, yeah, we're going to get extra time today, but then when it is over, it is over. We're going to go do something else we love. Um, or, you know, or we can like for us at our house, it looks like there's certain apps that they can and can't use unsupervised. So, all right, this is your time to do this and go ahead. And I'm going to, you know, help myself right now. Um, so yeah, I think there's a lot of stigma around the, the use of screen times to meet needs. And that's, that's, that's a tricky one.
- Speaker #1
And I'm going to say, use this language and I love it. And I tell people all the time, when you're going to do that, It's okay to model to your kids. We're doing this because I have this need. I'm going to let you do this because I need a few minutes. Because when we model that we have needs to our kids, then our kids grow up knowing it's okay to meet your needs. And that is, I think, such a powerful message that you talk about modeling. And so I appreciate you saying it that way. Aaron, I do want to be mindful of time. And so I'm going to sort of start wrapping up here. But before we go. Will you share with folks who've, they've heard, they've heard you share it. I've said, I'll put it in the show notes, but, but where can people find you?
- Speaker #0
Yeah. On Instagram right now. It's at spins and stomps. So yeah, that's where you can, that's where you can find me.
- Speaker #1
Awesome. Aaron, I really appreciate you joining me today. I appreciate you sharing everything. And for all the listeners again, I'm Sam Marion. Thank you for listening today. If you enjoyed today's episode, please give us a, you know, like follow. If you know anybody who could benefit from listening to Aaron share, please share the episode with them. Thank you so much
