Transcription

• Speaker #0

  That is the aspect of art that I enjoy the most, is collecting a collage in my head of ideas and thoughts and facts about a person, and then channeling that into a really specific vision, and then getting to bring that vision to life.

• Speaker #1

  Welcome to Neurodivergent Spot, the podcast where we put a spotlight on behind-the-scenes elements of the neurodiversity world. The guests bring their own experience, insight, expertise, and passion. I ask them four questions, and they will have 60 seconds to answer. After they answer all the questions, the guests will choose which question to return to for a further conversation. I'm your host, Sam Marion. My pronouns are he, him, and I am a multiply neurodivergent therapist, speaker, and creator. My work focuses on all things neurodiversity. but with particular interest in autism, ADHD, learning differences, and learning disabilities. Today's guest is Claire Jordan. Claire, please introduce yourself to the listeners.

• Speaker #0

  Hello, I'm Claire Jordan. My pronouns are she, her. So I am primarily a freelance graphic designer, but I'm also an adjunct instructor at the University of Georgia New Media Institute, where I teach web development. And I have obsessive compulsive disorder and I am on the autism spectrum.

• Speaker #1

  Quick disclaimer, information shared on this podcast should not be taken as therapy, healthcare, or legal advice. Thank you. And just to tell the listeners up front, Claire did headshots and some logos, some other stuff. I don't even know the right language for it. It's been so fun getting to know you, Claire. And that colors this whole conversation, I think, right?

• Speaker #0

  Absolutely. Yeah. I'm so glad. that we got to get connected and work on a project together and knowing that each other was neurodivergent from the beginning made it really fun.

• Speaker #1

  It was, it was really special for me getting to be open about my neurodivergence in that whole process.

• Speaker #0

  Absolutely. It was so fun.

• Speaker #1

  So let's jump in with four questions. Remember you will get 60 seconds for each question. Once I finish asking the question, your timer will start.

• Speaker #0

  I'm ready.

• Speaker #1

  All right. Question number one. Would you mind sharing your journey to becoming a late-identified neurodivergent adult?

• Speaker #0

  Absolutely. So I actually discovered what OCD was when I was in college Googling my symptoms desperately. And then pretty soon after that, I was able to find an OCD therapist. So I had been in therapy since I was a kid, but had only ever been diagnosed with anxiety. And for me, trying to treat OCD as anxiety was like thinking I was making progress, but really just making my circles and loops tighter and tighter. And then as I actually got treatment for OCD, it was like slowly unraveling those loops and cycles and relieving a lot of pressure and actually finding a lot of joy. in the process of discovering that diagnosis.

• Speaker #1

  How much of that was through Google?

• Speaker #0

  In the beginning, it was a lot of through Google. And then it probably took me another year to find the therapist that I still currently have. And I would say that is when the real sustainable work began. Whereas in the beginning, there was just an initial release of, oh, this is a real thing. I, you know, am not in danger. I can get help. And there is a way forward. I just had no idea that the intrusive thoughts that I was experiencing were as common as they were. So it was like just a huge release when I finally learned what it was.

• Speaker #1

  In today's world, you would have been on social media, not Google looking for that information.

• Speaker #0

  That's so true. I think like. Five years later, I would have found out on TikTok rather than WebMD.

• Speaker #1

  That's been a really fascinating sort of evolution in my field of just seeing where people turn. Let's keep going. Next question. Ready?

• Speaker #0

  Ready.

• Speaker #1

  How has your neurodivergence impacted your career path to a combination of teaching and entrepreneurship?

• Speaker #0

  So when everyone was transitioning from college into their careers, I was really still in the throes of figuring out my mental health. And I was just starting to get my footing with that and find some balance. So I was honestly scared to choose something other than freelance. And I was scared to move. I wanted to stay in the slower pace environment that I was in. I didn't want to move to Metro Atlanta. So I just started freelancing and then I loved it. And I found that my ability to learn about slash get obsessed with any topic really was an asset to my clients and to my work. And then along the way, I became an adjunct instructor and that was just a natural fit. And I love it a lot.

• Speaker #1

  I can resonate with some of that. I can't imagine now. Even having employees or coworkers, there's a reason why I'm here by myself. But it also means, and I wonder if this is true for you, if I decide to start a project, I can just do it.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. I worked in an office here and there during college and a little bit after, and I would come up against my creative walls so quickly, even though it was a creative job. And I really wasn't an asset to those offices in the end. So as much as people are like, you're so brave for going out on your own. I see it a little bit the opposite of like, you're so brave for going into the job that you have. So it's definitely taken a lot of explaining to some of my friends and family, but in the end, I found it necessary and then a lot of fun.

• Speaker #1

  That's awesome. For me, in the decade and a half since I graduated with my master's degree. The only job that I've stayed in more than 15 months is solo entrepreneurship. All right. Next question. How does your neurodivergence impact or influence your work as an artist?

• Speaker #0

  So I think one of the assets of OCD is thoughtfulness. And I recently heard someone describe OCD. I think it was on TikTok as you trying to outthink your life or outthink your problems. And that really resonates with me. And even though that can be distressing at times, it does make you a very thoughtful person. And so that is the aspect of art that I enjoy the most, is collecting a collage in my head of ideas and thoughts and facts about a person. And then channeling that into a really specific vision and then getting to bring that vision to life. That feeds into my branding projects, into my personal art, into my social media, into my poetry. There's a lot of winks to people's inner worlds, and that's what I love about it.

• Speaker #1

  I'm curious, do you follow a pretty standard process in that, or is every project its own process?

• Speaker #0

  I sort of cower at the word process, but there is sometimes a structure. I will say with each client, it evolves into something different and takes on a new form. So I have an idea of a process and a structure, but it very much depends on the client, which I think from some people's observation might just result in chaos. But it still makes sense to me. And again, I work for myself. So as long as I get the final product out there, we're good.

• Speaker #1

  I'm going to use that as a segue to the last question. This one I'm really putting on the spot, I think. What was it like for you to work with me as your client who is very open about my neurodivergence and I wanted to embrace my neurodivergence in the work?

• Speaker #0

  So I knew from the jump that we had common ground and mostly that emboldened me in the process. Maybe a little bit of fear in that I knew your feedback was going to be honest. So in bringing you some work, I knew you wouldn't be able to hide if you didn't like it. However, you did like it. So that's good. And so that was also an asset. But mostly I felt more brave to take risks. And I kind of abandoned my loose process and presented you with some fully fleshed ideas, like the new logo, some partial ideas, like, what if we did this for a photo shoot? And then I knew that you would kind of fill in the gaps. and either match my vision or build on it. And so it was just really fun, basically. I can bring you half ideas and see where we got.

• Speaker #1

  From my side, I thought it was awesome. When you came and took pictures in my office and I did see it evolve. Hiring an artist to be an artist, don't do it my way, do it your way. And it was fun to watch it unfold. When I decided to record this podcast, I knew I wanted you to be a guest because I thought it was such an amazing process.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, I think it was definitely mutually beneficial. And everyone I told about the project in my life. immediately was like, this is the coolest thing ever. This is perfect for you. I'm so glad you're getting to do this because I talk about neurodivergence so openly and often. So yeah, it was a really cool partnership.

• Speaker #1

  So yeah. So like I said, I'm very, very grateful. Claire, of the questions that I asked you, which one do you want to return back to? Let's talk about a little bit more.

• Speaker #0

  I want to go back to that late in life diagnosis topic and I want to talk about it in a serious way and a fun way.

• Speaker #1

  Let's do it.

• Speaker #0

  So serious way is, I think it's amazing that even though I had incredible resources growing up, my mom is an elementary school teacher. She, again, had me in therapy at a young age and was very much an advocate for mental health that it still took until my mid-20s really to get that diagnosis and get the help that I needed. And there's a lot of theories for that. It could be masking my symptoms, especially as a young girl. It could be me not being able to verbalize the intensity of the thoughts I was having and the spirals I was having. But then I think the irony being that ultimately I was the one who figured it out and advocated for myself and asking for help. And then I also wanted to talk through just some fun things that I've discovered in embracing my brain and embracing OCD and autism and how those things overlap. So of course, my whole life, I've always had special interests. That's a big part of neurodivergence. The main ones were World War II and transportation of most kinds. However, now they can take on many forms. And the most recent one was the Murdoch trial. Not only did I, of course, watch every documentary that came out and listen to every podcast, but it really takes a special turn when I started watching every minute of every deposition. I also love court cases and can get really into those. But how I've started to sort of harness these hyperfixations is I find that if there's a task I'm avoiding or especially don't want to do, if I can, in this instance, have a deposition on in the background while I'm putting my clothes away or doing a task for work that I don't want to do. I can engage that part of my brain that is saying, you're bored, you hate this, you're miserable, and do the task quickly and get it over with while having some fun and embracing my special interest. So ultimately, getting diagnosed and talking about it and getting help. has just led to a lot more compassion and joy in my life and a lot less shame around things that i thought made me weird or i thought made me lazy even because they would be so distracting oh you said a few key things that i loved uh one the experience of sitting and reading about this

• Speaker #1

  thing that exists that is common enough that somebody's written about it the you experience i had that experience when i learned about my reading disability where as a therapist had an adolescent client describe their experience reading and i never heard anybody use this language before so i was up till 2 a.m reading about a reading disability that i never heard the language for before until that day and it was just this explosion for me there's just there is something like oh my gosh i'm not the only one someone put language to it the embracing the things like the special interest and like not hiding them transportation one resonates for me. I have multiple boats tattooed on my arm. I have driven boats in multiple countries where I've been. I've worked on multiple boats. So yeah, just to embrace that and be open about interests even can be just powerful and just accepting oneself. So thank you for sharing that.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, absolutely. And yeah, inviting my friends into it with me rather than hiding those things has made for a lot of laughs, a lot of fun times. And seeing other people embrace it as well is extra healing and fun.

• Speaker #1

  I suspect that some people will hear this and that'll resonate of just how powerful it would be to be able to invite others into their experience with their special interests. So thank you for sharing that part too. Claire, I appreciate you being here to join me today. Would you mind, as we wrap up here, sharing with the listeners, how can they find you? How can they learn more about you?

• Speaker #0

  Absolutely. So you can check out all of my work at clairejoe.co. That's C-L-A-I-R-E-J-O dot C-O. And then my Instagram is the exact same. It's at clairejoe.co. And there you'll find more of my work, my digital collages, poetry, and pictures of my life.

• Speaker #1

  Thank you so much. Y'all go check Claire out, learn more about her, check out her work. Claire, again. And thank you so much for being here with us today.

• Speaker #0

  Thanks, Sam.

• Speaker #1

  Thanks for listening to NeuroDivergent Spot. I'm Sam Marion. If you enjoyed this episode, I hope you'll subscribe and share it around. And remember, if you're looking for a speaker or trainer, reach out to see how we can work together. You can find me on Instagram at NeuroDivergent Spot. And from there, you can find all my other places online.