Neurodivergence and Self-Discovery with Eva Ceja | Neurodivergent Spot

Description

Episode Summary

In this episode of Neurodivergent Spot, host Sam Marion welcomes Eva Ceja—actor, writer, producer, and late-diagnosed neurodivergent individual. Eva shares her transformative journey of self-awareness, beginning with a major life transition that led to her autism and ADHD diagnoses. Through her passion for acting, Eva explored the human condition, honing her ability to understand and portray others while masking her neurodivergence. Together, Sam and Eva dive into topics such as masking, late diagnoses, systems for thriving as a neurodivergent adult, and the power of self-compassion.

Quotes

"Acting became my way to study people because I didn’t understand how they worked. It wasn’t until my diagnosis that I realized it was my neurodivergence all along."

"I thought I was lazy, but it turns out my brain just works differently. Learning that gave me permission to be kinder to myself."

"If I hadn’t been an actor, I wouldn’t have developed the tools to connect with people. Acting was my way of creating systems to survive before I even knew I was neurodivergent."

Connect with Eva

Instagram: @evaceja

Keywords:

Neurodivergence
Late Autism Diagnosis
ADHD in Women
Masking and Acting
Neurodivergent Systems
Self-Awareness Journey
ADHD and Creativity
Autism Representation
Neurodivergent Spot Podcast

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Transcription

Speaker #0
And they're like, well, everyone's a little ADHD. And I'm like,
Speaker #1
welcome to Neurodivergent Spot, the podcast where we put a spotlight on behind the scenes elements of the neurodiversity world. The guests bring their own experience, insight, expertise, and passion. I asked them four questions and they will have 60 seconds to answer. After they answer all the questions, the guests. we'll choose which question to return to for further conversation. I'm your host, Sam Marion. My pronouns are he, him, and I'm a multiply neurodivergent therapist, speaker, and creator. My work focuses on all things neurodiversity, but with particular interest in autism, ADHD, learning differences, and learning disabilities. Today's guest is Ava Seha. Ava, please introduce yourself to the listeners.
Speaker #0
Hi, I am Ava Seha and I am hell under diversion. I am an actor and a producer and writer. I always wanted to do acting was the only thing I ever wanted to do. When I say I'm an actor, I also say that like I'm a student of people because that's essentially like what the biggest special interest for me was, was learning how people work because I don't think I. really understood how they did when I was younger as an undiagnosed neurodivergent. I wanted to understand and be able to relate and mimic them and mirror them on stage.
Speaker #1
Quick disclaimer, information shared on this podcast should not be taken as therapy, healthcare, or legal advice. All right, we have four questions. Question number one simply is, what was your journey to understanding your neurodivergence?
Speaker #0
Um, so... My journey, it was very complicated and very emotional, but I went through a really crazy breakup and moved away to a different state because of this scientific idea I had heard about these gnats that got trapped in during World War II in underground. They ended up evolving from like needing fresh water and sunlight. And now they didn't need that. they just needed the source of like darkness and would eat blood of rats. And they evolved very quickly within a matter of 50 years. So I thought, oh, I need to go do that. And through my evolution of like putting myself in that similar situation, I ended up going to therapy, EDMR therapy, neurofeedback therapy, and thinking I had something wrong with me. And lo and behold, did all these tests and found out I was like level one autistic and had severe combination ADHD.
Speaker #1
Awesome. Thank you for sharing that journey. That is a big journey.
Speaker #0
It was like when Neo is sitting in that chair and then he gasps up for air in the first time in the matrix going, oh, the reality I've been living is not real because I was not self-aware of who I was. And it was like coming up for air and realizing, oh, I'm actually this person in relation to other people. And I had no idea.
Speaker #1
I'm glad you've been able to come up for air. That's always a powerful thing. I'm curious. So you grew up, moving on to question number two, you grew up in Seattle in a multicultural and artistic environment, and then you pursued a career in the arts. How do you think acting helped you throughout your life? And I'm wondering if it had any impact or if it was an influence on almost self-accommodation or coping through acting.
Speaker #0
Yeah, so I would say, like, I, because... without knowing it, my social interests were people. It really helped me to feel more connected with people because the more I learned about different jobs or different aspects or different things that people did, or the psychology of them, I'm big on psychology, another special interest. I'm big on like chemistry and biology and sociology. I love archaeology. I love history because all that stuff is in pursuit of the knowledge of the human condition and who we are. And so I think because of my special interest of wanting to learn and be able to emote like other people and be in their shoes, I went out and pursued all of these other aspects and interests to gain that knowledge for acting. So to me, learning about new topics, new interests, new ways of doing things, everything is so curious to me because everything is man-made and it is a reflection of... of who we are and how I can present that on stage.
Speaker #1
Some people learn to mask themselves in different ways. And yours was a very literal, like, acting training. Let me learn how to do this. That is fascinating to me.
Speaker #0
And yeah, what's funny too, is that I, I would always get these roles where I'd have to do accents or I'd play the character when I was younger. And I was so mad because I was like, I can sing better than this person. I can dance better than this person. Like I could watch, I did Damn Yankees when I was younger. And I watched the original one with Frank Sinatra and I mimicked the girl that played a Sister Miller. And you know, Sister Milla, she talks like this. She's like, oh my God, like never, you never know, like things like that. And I could mimic that and mirror that. And I found, I find that really interesting now because it's my neurodivergence and the ability to mirror other people like that is a trait that not a lot of people have. And I'm, it's such a cool talent, but also kind of a curse because I've never had a really big sense of self. Because I didn't know I was neurodivergent. So I had to take on all of these other personalities, especially the personalities I'm hanging around.
Speaker #1
That makes sense. Let's keep going. Question number three. You've achieved a lot in different creative fields, acting, screenwriting, producing. How do you think being neurodivergent has influenced your approach in all these varied pursuits?
Speaker #0
I think that before I didn't know, And it was just more of like, oh, I had my special interest in acting. And now that I know that I'm neurodivergent, I think I now I know it's because my neurodivergence and my special thing is our people. I love learning about people. If I meet somebody that like is a glimmer to me, I want to know everything about them until I get to the nitty gritty of like, as I mentioned before, that Albert Einstein quote of like, if you can't explain something simply, then you don't understand it. And when I meet somebody, especially in relationships, which now I'm understanding like why I have limerence and things like that. Now I'm able to go, okay, the reason why I'm so attracted to this person is because I want to know everything about them as if they were a textbook. And I want to devour that until I understand it to its deepest core so that I can feel safe. And it would be like someone being really into like numbers and math. It's just that. They want to know everything about the aspect of that thing. And that's the same thing with a human.
Speaker #1
Got it. I'll track that. I had somebody ask me recently, have I any advice on how to connect with an autistic person? And my answer was authenticity. I was like, you've showed authentically.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
Okay. Keep going here. Question number four. Beyond just what you've done, you have training that really ranges on a wide scale from acting to martial arts. even a master's degree in business communication. How do you balance your multifaceted interests and what strategies have you developed that help you manage the unique challenges of your neurodivergence?
Speaker #0
Okay, so I didn't know this. I was had systems until recently, but basically like for like screenwriting, because I love writing stories, but sometimes it's really hard for me to sit down. I'm really good at writing an outline and getting that down. So then I hand that outline to someone to. my writing partner who will do a first rough draft, but I'm really good at editing and finding my voice through that. So then I'll go back and do that. So what I do is I, I, whatever I like and enjoy doing that aspects, I will make sure I get to do that. And then the other aspects, I kind of hand off to somebody else who's more proficient so that I can reach my goal, because if I don't, then it's, it'll never get done. So I think that's another, um, aspect I've learned as someone who's newly diagnosed is that that's an amazing system that I came up with. And our brains are so fascinating that I even came up with that idea before I knew I was neurodivergent. And same with working out all the time. Like I work out every day to get out the energy because I always felt like I had a lot of energy. And now I realized, oh, that was my body getting itself to self-regulate.
Speaker #1
When it comes to creating systems, And I do this. I create systems for everything. The problem is they're never quite right. And I have to keep working on it and trying to perfect it. And I can get stuck in the system creation phase and not ever get into the task that that system is supposed to help me accomplish.
Speaker #0
Yeah. There's some like cleaning my room. I sort of have a system and then it changes. And I don't know if that'll ever change. I have a really hard time. I can organize somebody else's house or like. when I work, I'm very clean and very like, this is my space. But at home, it's frustrating to me because I want to so bad. I always felt like, oh, it's because I'm lazy. And it's not. It's just like this wall I can't get over.
Speaker #1
Oh gosh. I always thought I was lazy or I thought it was because I was lazy. And it turns out it's because my brain works different. It's such like a common experience of neurodivergent people. It's like, it was this thing that I just couldn't quite figure out or it wasn't, it was never laziness. It was not.
Speaker #0
And it's nice to know now because it gives me permission to be kinder to myself about it because I'm such a hard critic on myself because I thought my brain worked just like everyone else. I would go, why do I have to work 10 times harder than everybody else to get this done when it's so easy for them? And I would beat myself up constantly. My mother sent me some stuff from like my childhood and I was looking through it and I saw this report card and there was one that was like, Ava's working to interact with the other girls better in school and not ask so many questions or not be so difficult. And she's... learning to be less bored in class and doodle. I was like, so I've been in this fucking way my entire life and I've created systems and had to like work with people in order to like be considered normal in class and had no idea what I was. I was reading medical books when I was like little. I can look back and go, oh, I really wish they'd studied women's brains. 50 years ago rather than just 10 years ago because then I would have known what I was sooner.
Speaker #1
I mean, we're still lagging behind on that.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
Ava, we have sort of like gone a little bit deeper with each question as we've been going along. But I am curious, is there any one of those questions that you would like to return to with some intentionality to go a little bit deeper with?
Speaker #0
I think one thing about becoming self-aware. Because I think that's not really talked about too much on the internet. There's a lot of like, oh, well, these are the symptoms of ADHD and autism. But I think as someone, I'll be 41 in December. So for me, it's like, I found out in March, after having already gone through like a really terrible breakup, and then finding this out that I was neurodivergent and everything started to make sense. All these weird things that I did that. I wanted to fix about myself or didn't understand why I did those things and, or things that I was ashamed of. I wouldn't give myself lenience was really hard on myself, which creates a terrible insecurity. And I can see why there are so many women who are my age who are getting diagnosed for going. I wish I'd known that. So I didn't end up finding, trying to find love or understanding. all of the wrong places. I really wish I'd known that. So I didn't, you know, end up hanging out with these people that would put me in terrible situations, situations that, that, that were traumatizing. I've been through a lot of abuse where I could have avoided that had I had a better sense of self. And I think that as a late diagnosed ADHD person, I'm realizing that like, I need space. and possessions to remind myself who I am so that when I go into the outside world, I don't allow it to define me and I can be comfortable in my own skin and I won't need to feel the need to always people-please. And I feel like that's a common thread of late-diagnosed women. We tend to people-please and we tend to... try to do whatever we can to make sure we're understood. And we overthink and we over talk and we over explain. And it gets exhausting. And then people think that you're lying because you're over explaining yourself. And you're like, no, I'm being very blunt and honest with you. And then it's taken the wrong way and you're still misunderstood. And I mean, I still cry every day randomly. But like when that first guy diagnosed, I was just, I was grieving for the life I could have had. But at the same time, thank God for my ADHD, because my brain was creating systems to survive without me knowing it, which is incredible. After I got diagnosed, neuroscience became my new special interest. I read like 60 textbooks and listened to lectures and I've read books and books and books. So I can tell you about how, you know, neurons work. And it helps me to actually understand my neurodivergence even more and how I can explain to other people. Because when I got diagnosed and I saw stuff on the internet, on Instagram, I would show people, well, that's me, that's me. And they're like, well, everyone's a little ADHD. And I'm like, I don't think so. And so I still, people still don't know what ADHD is. And they, they're not as forthright to make it like a real disability. They're more apt to say autism is a disability, but I don't think people are really truly aware of the dynamics of what ADHD actually is because it has already has a stereotype. attached to it, especially in women, because it presents very differently. And autism presents very differently with people. Like it's not always like trains and horses. Like, you know, for me, it was people are my special interest. Although I do love horses. I love animals.
Speaker #1
Yeah. You know, it's, it's interesting hearing you share, because my perspective is I, you know, I work in a clinical setting with a lot of autistic folks, wider age range. gender, you know, variation. And so all of this, and so some of what you're sharing of like, that was there all along, but missed, it's like, it almost feels stereotypical to me. Like you're describing to me a very stereotypical neurodivergent experience kind of for all DHD, but it was so much of it was just, it was internal for you. You know, sure, there's a stuff that note home from the teacher for an adult as you look back. you know, it is documentation to reflect on, right? Some of the things you're sharing are common experiences and particularly, you know, for people socialized female, right? In school settings, the expectations received. And then I do think about this, Ava, you're talking about this studying people, which is like, that's an autistic stereotype, studying people to know how to be and know how to interact. And you were just so good at it. You made a career out of it, right? Like that's... You're so good at autistic masking that you've made a living in this and like you're writing and helping other people know how to do this.
Speaker #0
Yeah. It's crazy. Cause there was a time when I was like, I'd be on camera and I started noticing my eyes would jet back and forth and didn't understand why I did that. And I didn't even like, I can't feel when I'm doing it. And so I worked for three years to be able to look someone in the eye when I was talking to them. Because when I was waitressing too, I wouldn't look at people in the eye and people would be like, why doesn't she do that? I don't think about it as much anymore, but working that hard to be able to look someone in the eye and not knowing that you're autistic and how exhausting that is. If I hadn't been an actor, I don't think I would have ever noticed that or worked on it. Because now I can look somebody in the eye very calmly without thinking about it too much, unless it's for like a long period of time. And then I get really tired and then I'm like, okay, you need to look away. Honestly. I think if I had not been so interested in acting, I don't think I would have been able to accomplish as much as I have because acting essentially, it's a way to put yourself in other people's shoes, to have a lot of empathy. It's also, you know, you need to learn different things about the world so that you, when you go and do a role, you understand like. how someone plays the piano or you understand, you know, if you're going to go play Albert Einstein, you understand a little bit about physics because you're going to explain that. So to me, it became almost like this really cool way to keep and stay curious.
Speaker #1
This ongoing self-learning that as a late identified person, some of it's the skills that we learned because we needed to like for our work, but now understanding the why, what's underneath it. And this, yeah, it's like coming up for air, such a common experience. So I just want to say, Ava, again, thank you. You shared in a really vulnerable way today. And I suspect that people will listen to this and really connect. And so I really appreciate your willingness to be vulnerable. But before we go, I want to ask if listeners want to learn more about you, where should people go to find you?
Speaker #0
Instagram is the best place. It's not creative at all. It's just my name, E-V-A-C-E-J-A. I would say that's the best place. That's where you can find my weird little self and all the things I post.
Speaker #1
Ava, again, thank you. I really appreciate you being here. Thank you for sharing with us.
Speaker #0
Thank you.
Speaker #1
Thanks for listening to NeuroDivergent Spot. I'm Sam Marion. If you enjoyed this episode, I hope you'll subscribe and share it around. And remember, if you're looking for a speaker or trainer, reach out to see how we could work together. You can find me on Instagram at NeuroDivergent Spot. And from there, you can find all my other places online.