Transcription

• Speaker #0

  Mark Gallardoux is the third episode of this mini-series because he's the one who speaks best about what execution requires when the context doesn't stabilize, when we can't wait for conditions to be met to act. After Vincent, who maintains a long-term plan, after Guillaume, who showed us how we constantly reinvent within a system, Mark asks us a slightly different question. What do we do when the ground is unstable, when information is constantly incomplete? And when waiting, in fact, costs more than acting. His answer is ultimately very simple. We trust the ground, we move forward, and we accept that certain departures, whether people, directions, or projects, certain stops, are necessary to execute with integrity.

• Speaker #1

  What's the biggest risk in life? The biggest risk is not to achieve your purpose. People tell me to be cautious, but I've been cautious since I was born. And I think that says it all. I think... What you will find into these markets is the appetite, the call to project in the future, because today is difficult, tomorrow is going to be better, and we build a better. And I think this is sometimes that what we may have lost is this idea that tomorrow will be better and we should do tomorrow better than today, and that maybe there is more risk in maintaining than in trying something. When you're brutal, you attack the person. When you're clear, you're focused on the task.

• Speaker #2

  Welcome to PharmaMinds, in a world where risks define progress and not taking risks also defines sometimes the enemy of progress. I'm really happy with today's guest. I am with Marc Gailhardou. Hello, Marc.

• Speaker #1

  Hi, Nathalie. Thanks for having me.

• Speaker #2

  I'm very happy to have you here because I think your leadership career and yes, the path you've taken in the pharma industry will help us understand this shift between local and global and maybe understand a bit what's moving and how we can look at this changing world. I'm really happy to have you here.

• Speaker #1

  Glad for the conversation and thanks for the nice framing.

• Speaker #2

  Mark, you're responsible for the EMEA zone for MSD today, and you are also part of the board of a startup named the Resilience in Oncology. We'll talk about, yes, local leadership and also global leadership, but perhaps we'll also find a way to define what it means to be a new leader in this world. I would like to start with your journey, how you started. Maybe you can try to explain, perhaps with a specific example, how this alternating between local and global roles actually helps your leadership.

• Speaker #1

  Okay. Thank you very much, Nathalie. And before starting, going into the weeds of my career, maybe just a few words to say that I think I'm pretty representative of your audience, meaning people driven to make an impact in making innovation accessible. So I think, and around that, I feel that pharma is clearly a good way, a career in pharma is really a good way to get there. And like I said, we'll speak a lot about me, but my first consideration is that in everything we'll be saying, this is a team sport. This is a team sport. And so I take the opportunity to really thank my colleagues, the team I've been working with, and all the ones who have been supporting my family, the close ones, the mentors. So I think this is important to say. So with regards to my career, maybe just one or two words about the region itself. EEA, so Eastern Europe, Middle East, Africa. This is something like 25% of the world population. This is hyper-diverse as a region because we have some of the poorest countries in the world to some of the wealthiest countries in the world if we take the Gulf. This is a region very heterogeneous. This is a region that is volatile, that has some challenges when we think about all the wars that are going throughout the region. And I would like to say a word for all the people who are going through that because those are real challenges. But if we take the flip side of that, it's really a region that is fascinating because this is a region that has a soul, I would say. If you consider all the great civilizations that built this region, it has some amazing values in terms of generosity and hospitality. And there is a word that I'm not a big fan of. We often speak about emerging markets. I would very much consider the region a high growth market. And if we look at it that way, I think it creates a connection with the discussion we will have about the ability to be quite bold from a strategic standpoint and to be very focused on execution. So there is a lot to be done in terms of addressing the needs. If we start with the purpose, there are many unmet needs, but also from a business standpoint. So yes, this is what my current job is all about. And I think I'm excited every day about it.

• Speaker #2

  Yes. And okay, then I will jump in. I will make the connection to your previous job. To go back to your zone, E-E-M-E-A.

• Speaker #1

  Yes. What it is to lead in a high growth market.

• Speaker #2

  Yes. And who... are the truly powerful figures, the leading pioneers of innovation in this area. Why are they so open and receptive to innovation?

• Speaker #1

  So I'll begin right from the very start regarding what it is actually like to lead such an important area. And let's not underestimate the significant geopolitical challenges, as well as the real situation of the people living there. Because, as I said, in my region, I have both Ukraine and Russia. I also cover the Middle East. So the very first thing you think about when you wake up in the morning is how to make sure that all the employees are safe and secure wherever they are in the region. Their safety is always the top priority. And second, how we deliver on the company's mission in a responsible and compliant manner. So I think it's hyper important to say it because that occupies a good part of a leader's brain. And these are sometimes things that, quite honestly, we tend to take for granted in other areas of the world where circumstances and expectations can be very different. Now, if I turn to your question about how I maximize, how I operate and how I approach these challenges, I will be a bit traditional. saying this, but it really starts with understanding the needs, truly grasping what is genuinely required. And when I say understanding the needs, I mean that the ranking of priorities, the order in which things are considered important, isn't always the same everywhere. And it can shift depending on the context, the people involved, and the specific situation at hand. And this is where you will have different approaches to prevention versus treatment, to affordable treatment versus highly innovative ones. And this is our job. on one hand, to align with the priorities of our external stakeholders, and at the same time, to be extremely creative in the solutions we provide. And I'm proud of the teams with regards to that. But I think if I go one level further, what I find really interesting and might be a difference coming back to some of your questions around Europe, US, etc. These markets are hyper volatile for sure, but the underlying trajectory is growth. And I think If you take this type of hypothesis, then it all becomes, what do I do? What should we do to capture this growth and to maximize this growth? And I think that really gives some possibilities that you wouldn't find in more established markets in being very bold in terms of what are the partnerships we could do with the authorities, how we can plan for long term. And at the same time, how are we super disciplined so that we progress on a day-to-day basis? So I think I'm coming back to your question. Probably more rooms to maneuver than in established environments.

• Speaker #2

  Yes. Even if you don't have the stability with you, even if you don't maybe have Exactly. the vision or less vision.

• Speaker #1

  And this is why I think it's super interesting, super tricky from an extent point, because it's on one side, it takes to be bold on the strategic aspect, because this is what the environment wants.

• Speaker #2

  Yes.

• Speaker #1

  Because the stakeholders want to build their infrastructure, they want to raise their standard of care. It's not marginal improvement like in some other areas. So it has to be bold. But at the same time, what are the guardrails that we put from a day-to-day basis to progress in that direction? Fascinating.

• Speaker #2

  I can imagine. But if I look maybe to more developed market, more stable market, maybe. And maybe you have something in mind about this, but maybe they can get inspiration also about maybe this kind of way of thinking we've lost or we don't need like urgently. But it would be useful maybe.

• Speaker #1

  So you bring me... in the direction of how I look about mature markets or how I look at about Europe. So let me give you a very concrete example. It was last week, I had a partner coming from Lebanon, and he was speaking about the business risk in Middle East and all of that. And he was using this quote, which is nice, but bittersweet. He was saying, you know what, people tell me to be cautious, but I've been cautious since I was born. And I think that says it all. I think what you will find into these markets is the appetite. the call to project in the future, because today is difficult. Tomorrow is going to be better, and we build a better. And I think this is sometimes that what we may have lost is this idea that tomorrow will be better, and we should do tomorrow better than today, and that maybe there is more risk in maintaining than in trying something. So I think that there might, and this is not something I take from Europe, this is more something I take from the emerging markets, where I see this continuous projection. The second element I would take you And it's probably a bit more aspirational, philosophical, but I'm coming back to this situation of war that my teams have been experiencing throughout the region. What I've been finding truly fascinating is how people still go to the office and manage to find their sense of purpose, even when everything around them seems to be going wrong. They show up for work, stay on the job and keep going despite all the challenges. And to say to themselves, to say to each other, this is truly where we can actually do something. where we can make a real difference. But like I said, Let's not underestimate the role that companies, that the enterprise can play in bringing people together in challenging times. And by the way, this is something that we've seen at the time of COVID, where everyone was isolated. And the only thing that was bringing people together was to be behind the screen and kind of, and I think what I see around that is that regardless of all the differences of perspective that you would find in a region what makes that People impact together. Work together is the purpose, but also the values and the way of working that the company said.

• Speaker #2

  I would like to talk about your career, about staying sharp in your career, because you said you have made you have truly made some bold and courageous moves. And you did not follow the I don't know, maybe the expected moves or the comfortable, the safe, the easy move or just the next logical step. You chose instead to take a different path. One that was not necessarily the obvious one, but one that required real courage and a willingness to step outside your comfort zone. You've made, like you said, like the two extremes.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah. And I think what you're trying to touch is what drives the transition, how we build a career, these type of things, and how much risk. I think this is where you're coming back to this notion of risk. So first thing to say is that a career should be looked from a long run perspective. So it's a marathon.

• Speaker #2

  Yes, yes.

• Speaker #1

  It's a marathon, not a sprint.

• Speaker #2

  Yes. And it's just, I like, yes, it's interesting. You say that risk is part of a marathon.

• Speaker #1

  Exactly.

• Speaker #2

  And can be part of a marathon.

• Speaker #1

  Exactly. So it should be looked from a long-term perspective. And if, I don't know if it works with your marathon analogy, but one should be clear about the fact that there are some times for acceleration, but there are tons of time for kind of consolidation, management, passions, resilience. So I think that's really the way I take it. With regards to the risk-taking, since we are actually going there during the transition, we should be mindful of any possible challenges that could arise. So let me quote you a podcast, a recent one, Charles Pepin. He was speaking about, should we take risk? And he was asking about, what's the biggest risk in life? And I think he was describing that basically the biggest risk is not to achieve your purpose.

• Speaker #2

  Not to lose something.

• Speaker #1

  Exactly, exactly. If you take it like that, I think there is more risk in not trying anything than trying something. And if you have this type of angle from there, it doesn't look so risky to try some new things. So I think that is probably one particular angle that I would really like to take when looking at the transition. And the other one is probably something that is more deeply embedded in an internal DNA, or perhaps not, which is really about the question of how long to stay.

• Speaker #2

  In the game?

• Speaker #1

  In the game or just somewhere. And this is something that I truly have deep within me, something that I feel very strongly. which is that at some point there is inevitably a necessary departure.

• Speaker #2

  Okay, yeah.

• Speaker #1

  And so it doesn't come from me, this one, but it does. I think it's from Delphine Orvilleur. She speaks about that. And since I've heard that, this is something that is really deeply into me, is the fact that at some point you have to push yourself.

• Speaker #2

  Nothing is forever.

• Speaker #1

  Exactly, exactly.

• Speaker #2

  You said, okay, sometimes it's not made for everyone.

• Speaker #1

  Yes.

• Speaker #2

  Yes, but nothing is forever.

• Speaker #1

  But I think this is where I'm going to this type of conclusion, which is that it's more positive to transition than not. Because if you take on one side that nothing is forever, and on top of that, that it's only by going forward that you go towards your purpose. I think there are more incentives to move.

• Speaker #2

  But if you add, okay, I'm afraid of losing, I don't know, my status or whatever, my salary, my...

• Speaker #1

  But that's the point. Is it the right thing? Is it the right thing to consider? Or is there something bigger? And I think there is something bigger. If we say my goal is to maximize my impact, to make innovation, and if I just do it there, where I could do it 10 times bigger, if I try something, then suddenly that gives an opportunity to project.

• Speaker #2

  And then what you do, you just go in the direction of your goal?

• Speaker #1

  But I think, let's be honest about that, it never happens as planned.

• Speaker #2

  Yes.

• Speaker #1

  That's yes and no. So let me elaborate on that for two seconds. So I was managing director and then the plan was, okay, Mark, you will... You've never been into the MSD headquarters. You've never been in oncology. So let's do a rotation in oncology. So I started, I did this great job in strategy, but then after that, it didn't happen as planned because there has been some management rotation. And then I had to do a second job in onco, a third job in onco. And then it really tests your resilience, your ability to go deeper, to adjust your plans. And then after that, was it planned to take this region? Not necessarily. There were some ideas. But I think the reading is pretty clear for me. If it fits with a bigger plan, if the guts feel it, I think. And I think I'm touching a super important point, which is at the end, we can give whatever advice, but this is in the guts. And if there is this click, then it's going to be good.

• Speaker #2

  Yes. And maybe like the meeting with the right person,

• Speaker #1

  the right people. Exactly. It's about connection, connecting with the right people, with the right leaders. For me, all the big connections have been associated for me with the right people that at some point you just look in the eyes and you say, OK, we go and that happens.

• Speaker #2

  Yes. But behind that, I think.

• Speaker #1

  And like I said, so there is this kind of a sort of master plan. Yes. There is this sort of master plan. And even if the option... the proposition is not exactly the same with the one that was anticipated. It's all about how close. And I think one, something I would really advise to consider is when looking at a job, how much does it create options versus how much does it close options?

• Speaker #2

  As long as it's hard to say no.

• Speaker #1

  Sorry?

• Speaker #2

  It's hard to say no.

• Speaker #1

  So something like, I'm just taking some very basic illustrations. Someone who has never done sales suddenly has the opportunity to do sales. That's a whole world of opportunities. someone who has never lived in their own country. Suddenly it's a whole world of opportunities. So that's the type of things that...

• Speaker #2

  Yes, but yes, okay, the second option can be a bit more, yes, challenging, as you say, sometimes because of the context. And okay, you feel more not comfortable, but you want to follow, I don't know, the family.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, of course.

• Speaker #2

  Or you don't want to go to the place they asked you.

• Speaker #1

  And I think I genuinely go back to that. It's not one size fits all.

• Speaker #2

  Yes.

• Speaker #1

  I think it's, I think I have colleagues who tell me, There is only one job in life. It's managing director. I have others who tell me there is only one thing that matters. This is science. And it's okay. I think it's about self exploration as well.

• Speaker #2

  Okay. And then if we look at your leadership, how has it evolved following these experiences, perhaps?

• Speaker #1

  So it really does take a certain kind of generosity to be able to learn.

• Speaker #2

  Yes.

• Speaker #1

  And I'm going in a completely different direction. But it will address your point. I feel that one of the you risks or weaknesses I was kind of experiencing, particularly when I was in the US, was being completely in a kind of in my closed pharma environment outside of a European ecosystem. And I felt the need to reconnect with the outside world. And I think that in order to really get there, it honestly takes making the effort to pick up the phone and actually reach out to people, taking the time to go to them and say, hey, is there any way I can help you out? Maybe we could have a conversation about it. How can I be of help to you? And that's what led me to this fabulous experience with Resilience, meeting Jonathan Benamou. And because I believe that if one comes genuinely with this approach of, you know what, I'm not coming to you with the intent of ticking a box, but just to say, is there something I could share? Then there is always a ton in return, even if it's not expected. And I think in our current situation, it's the same thing. You're bringing me out of my comfort zone. So I think this is a stretch. This is a learning experience. And I bet that after this conversation, I will have conversations with many, many, many more people who at some point would be interested in the industry or would be interested in doing this or doing that. So I think that's the way. Let's try at times to be a bit less short term, a bit less transactional in what we do and believe in the fact that there is just some value in exchanging and opening conversations.

• Speaker #2

  It's yes, collective intelligence, giving it a chance. Okay. Very interesting indeed. I definitely understand. And since the first day I started the podcast to understand the value of sharing freely what you really think. And what did you learn when you started your experience with this startup resilience?

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, I learned a ton. I learned a ton. So first of all, if we just talk for two seconds, because it's not about advertising, but what they do, this notion of digital health, where you can help digital health, supporting the patients, it's obvious that this is the way to go. when I think being part of this journey is really something, and I'm very excited about what they do. But then, to your point about comfort zone and these kind of things, what the pharma industry has done amazingly well is the ability to process complicated things, to set the guardrails, and to set a clear roadmap for progression. However, when I meet with some terrific leaders like Jonathan Benamou, who is the CEO, Sometimes we tend to lose. This instinctive approach to opportunities and to things, this idea of I don't think about it, I do it. And I will take a very concrete example. When someone reaches out from the outside, it's very tempting to say, OK, let me connect my admin and we're going to speak in two weeks from now. I think when you speak with someone like Jonathan, it's can we speak tonight? And I think this idea of, OK, I pick up my phone, we solve the problem in five minutes and we move to something else. This is something that is refreshing, that keeps you on your toes. And I think that everyone should have this type of opportunity of saying, okay,

• Speaker #2

  in two weeks, let's keep the pace to get it wrong 10 times.

• Speaker #1

  Exactly. And I think there is probably something more rough in this environment with the funds, the investors, same, that we are not always confronted with when we're in bigger companies. So I think I see a ton of benefits. And I think in both ways, by the way, because I think the bigger organizations have an ability to clarify, to prioritize that sometimes the smaller companies don't have.

• Speaker #2

  So there is a win-win.

• Speaker #1

  And I think it goes back to this, to your point, which is, okay, let's create the conditions. for positive connections and learn from each other.

• Speaker #2

  Yes, yes, because what you say is, okay, you go out of your comfort zone, but you also need some humility, respect on both sides to really understand what you're not good at.

• Speaker #1

  Exactly, you're right. It takes intelligence from both sides. It's important.

• Speaker #2

  Yeah, to get the best of each other. Okay, I would like to have one word maybe because I have one way maybe to define you. You have maybe a brutal honesty, but you respect others. And is it true? Is it something?

• Speaker #1

  So yeah, so this notion of being brutally honest, I've been using as words, but I prefer...

• Speaker #2

  We go back to the risks.

• Speaker #1

  No, if I go in the direction of risk, I prefer the notion of being bold. Bold is exciting. Then I prefer being bold than risk, risk of failure, whatever. So definitely, I think that's the first one. And I prefer the notion of clarity to brutal honesty. And this is probably something that is being shaped over time with experience. When one has probably less confidence... There is a tendency to mix the two, that you have to be tough to be strong. I don't believe in it. I think I'm distancing myself a little bit from that. Being clear is helpful.

• Speaker #2

  Yeah, and bold. It's also, yes, a way to use the right words to help and also, yes, to treat our audience, yes, with respect.

• Speaker #1

  No, because when you're brutal, you attack the person. When you're clear, you're focused on the task. That's the simple distinction I would make.

• Speaker #2

  Do you want to share your personal values?

• Speaker #1

  Wow. Some. Some personal values, curiosity, big time, generosity, and a certain will to do good, to have a positive impact, definitely.

• Speaker #2

  Cool. Thank you, Mark.

• Speaker #1

  Thank you. Thank you, Natalie.

• Speaker #2

  Thank you. It was, for me, very interesting and intense to hear your perspective. And I think a bold way to define a farmer leader.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, my pleasure. Thank you very much, Natalie. Thanks again for what you're doing. And I'm happy to keep supporting the journey.

• Speaker #0

  The most important thing Mark says is perhaps this.

• Speaker #2

  executing in the midst of instability isn't a matter of courage. It's a matter of clarity.

• Speaker #0

  Knowing exactly what we want to achieve, trusting the local teams to find the right way forward, and accepting that these departures, these various changes, are necessary and an integral part of the job. In the next episode, we'll stay in the reality of the field, but we go down yet another notch. We're no longer talking about zones, fields, subsidiaries, or geographical areas. We're entering the world of biotech. We're executing his first and foremost being able to survive long enough to prove that we were right all along. And I wanted to tell you about a discussion between Paul Bravetti and Marc de Garidel, which shows us what that means in practice, making choices and standing by them.