Transcription

• Speaker #0

  Here's the cool thing as well. You do get followers, but when you don't focus on that as your primary thing, the stress goes down immensely. That is the purpose of the show, is to connect with the right kind of guests on a consistent basis and naturally turn those into conversations about how we can work together. For me, a podcast is a means to an end. It is a marketing method. doesn't replace everything else. It's just another great tool to have in the toolbox.

• Speaker #1

  We're in negotiations. We're investing in real estate. They're winning. They're making money.

• Speaker #2

  What's up, everyone? Welcome to the Real Estate Educators Podcast, where we provide the education you can build on. I am your host, Kevin Amos. We are back. I have a really, really exciting episode for you today. I've had the pleasure of being on this gentleman's podcast in the past, and I got to tell you, I am learning so much from him. 14 years of experience working with accredited investors. He is currently helping other real estate investors build their private money network through podcasting. So it's a very specific niche that we're going to be talking about today. I do know he's helped over 200 real estate investors, over $350 million raised. So Dave Dubot, welcome to the show, man.

• Speaker #0

  Kevin, an absolute pleasure. Thanks for having me. Great having you on my show a couple of weeks ago. I love that term. Private Investors Network. Yeah, that's what you do. Exactly, exactly.

• Speaker #2

  Yeah, and I appreciate you accepting the invite to come on here. We had so much fun. I think I've been on your show maybe twice now, and we had a great time. So thank you for coming on.

• Speaker #0

  My pleasure.

• Speaker #2

  Well, let's get to know you a little bit, because now the rules are reversed here. I get the pleasure of getting to know you a little bit, which I don't know that much, honestly. Take me back. I know you've been doing the raising the capital for 14 years, but you had to be in real estate or at least interested in real estate prior to that. So how did this whole thing get started?

• Speaker #0

  Oh, wow. It all got started around the turn of the century, Kevin. So, yeah, I'd been living for a decade in beautiful San Jose, Costa Rica. And I decided in 2003 to drag my Costa Rican family kicking and streaming back to the northern hinterlands of Canada. which is where I live in beautiful British Columbia, Canada. People go, Dave, especially Canadians, they go, Dave, what are you crazy? You live in a tropical paradise and you decide to come back home. Well, it's one of those things, Kevin, you don't realize how good you've got it until you leave for a while. So living overseas made me appreciate Canada as beautiful as Costa Rica is. It's a little bit more dangerous than Canada. Like I knew three different people that got kidnapped and held for ransom. In Costa Rica. And that's, it's not super common compared to some other Latin American countries. So in small town, British Columbia, Canada, that hardly ever happens. So we decided to move in, move back for, for my family's sake to raise our kids. It was a good choice, but I had to start all over again from scratch. I'd been gone for so long. I didn't have poor credit. I had zero credit. So bank wasn't going to look at me for financing for anything. I've been self-employed for 10 years with a language school in Costa Rica. That wasn't a really great transferable skill to where I moved. So I was trying to figure out, okay, what the heck am I going to do? And you're probably too young to remember this, but back in the day, Kevin, there were these things called late night infomercials.

• Speaker #2

  Oh, I remember.

• Speaker #0

  So I was up late one night watching TV, stressed out. I saw one of these ads. It was something like, hey. You too can get rich at real estate. Carlton Sheets? Or no money down. Wasn't Carlton Sheets, but it was along those lines. It was actually, I ended up taking a bunch of training from a guy named Ron Legrand.

• Speaker #2

  Oh yeah.

• Speaker #0

  Same idea. Creative, low money, no money down type deals. So I said, great, low money, no money. That's pretty much what I got. So I hadn't been able to sell my business at Costa Rica yet. So I was pretty strapped. So I sent away from this course. It was so long ago, man. I believe some of the stuff was on cassettes and, you know. Might've been a VHS cassette or two in there. Anyhow, got all this stuff, went through it and put it into use. And in the small town that I kind of live in, there's about a hundred thousand people in the whole area and took action and did 18 deals in 18 months. So that was kind of what I was doing there to keep the lights on. Well, it sounds impressive. Some of those were, a couple of those were really nice, good deals. A lot of them were crappy little trailers and mobile homes. That kind of thing. But whatever. It got me going with real estate. And then one thing led to another. And marketing is really kind of my background. That's what juices me up. I connected with an up-and-coming... real estate guru up here in Canada, kind of at that time, Canada's version of Robert Kiyosaki and Rich Dad, you know, all that kind of idea. And connected with him and helped him blow his company up. And we went from three employees to 128 employees and hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue and all this kind of stuff. So that took me away from active real estate investing for a little while. And then I got back in and out and all that kind of stuff. But the commonality has been I've been involved in in marketing all through that and i realized you know i kind of suck as an operator to be perfectly honest with kevin so you know i started working with some uh some people in the multi-family space and and was much better at the marketing and their capital raising side of things than then at the operation so that's what i've been focusing on for the last

• Speaker #2

  14 plus years marketing i love marketing dave i talk about this frequently um that's That's the most important piece in business because your sales team can't sell unless they have a lead, right? So I think marketing is huge. What attracted you to that?

• Speaker #0

  Necessity.

• Speaker #2

  That'll do it.

• Speaker #0

  That little language school I started in Costa Rica, my educational background was psychology. So I have what I call a basically asinine degree in psychology. And so I started my own business, was clueless, and quickly realized I had to figure out a way to... get customers. And so I started reading books and stumbled across Dan Kennedy and direct response marketing and all this kind of stuff, and then developed a real liking for it. I enjoyed that part of business pretty much more than anything. So that's where it all started way back in 1993.

• Speaker #2

  Oh, I love Dan Kennedy. I would just study his books.

• Speaker #0

  Oh, yeah. Actually, I was part of one of his mastermind groups for a couple of years in the early 2000s. Hanging out with much smarter guys than me. So I was in a mastermind with Ryan Dice and Russell Brunson and a bunch of these kind of guys before anybody knew who they were. So, yeah, I was hanging out with people way, way smarter than I was. It was it was a good experience.

• Speaker #2

  We should probably talk about masterminds at some point if we get around to that, because one thing that's what most guests, maybe all guests have in common, Dave, is. the power of your network and the people that you keep around you and how most people contribute their success to that.

• Speaker #0

  So that's,

• Speaker #2

  that's pretty impressive that you, you did the same thing. I want to go back to these 18 deals in 18 months. And I was very impressed with that. Now you, you downplayed it a little bit, but gosh, being able to put together one deal is hard, especially if you're doing it from a course you bought on TV. without all the information that we have now. And I get the feedback sometimes, I don't know how to get started. I don't know what to do. I don't know how to take action. And we have so much information that we didn't have back then.

• Speaker #0

  Almost too much now. Yeah. I think that might be part of the problem, Kevin. I think there's just so much information. It was a little simpler back then because, okay, I got a binder full the stuff of what to do, follow these instructions and don't. deviate so that simplifies things versus now it's so easy to get distracted with a gazillion different things so that that probably helped things that way but yeah it was it was good old direct response because again ron legrand's a dan kennedy guy in fact that's how i first heard about ron legrand was through dan kennedy and then saw the ads and all that stuff um so it was pretty basic back in those days and stuff that still works today so you I got several deals because I had a minivan that I deckled all up with. I buy houses, any price, any condition, big phone number, all that kind of stuff. So I got a few deals from that. You know, old fashioned newspaper ads back when they existed. So the infamous classified circle ad, I don't know if you ever saw any of those, but those were, so that was basically you bought an ad, put it in the classifieds. I camouflaged it to look exactly like a classified ad that somebody had circled with a pen. So it looked like somebody had grabbed that paper before the person and circled that ad. I had one lady call me up and she said, it's a message from God. I said, what do you mean? Well, I picked up the newspaper from the newspaper machine. I always pick like the third or fourth down, one down. And I grabbed the newspaper and open it up. And I've been stressed out about my house and open up the classified. And somebody had circled your ad. It was a message from God.

• Speaker #2

  Oh, gosh. Did you go buy in that house?

• Speaker #0

  No, I didn't end up buying a house, but it was a fun experience. Yeah, all sorts of fun, wonky stuff. But yeah, that's how I got started in real estate there.

• Speaker #2

  Yeah, like grassroots, like shoestring marketing, right?

• Speaker #0

  That's what I had, a shoestring budget.

• Speaker #2

  Yeah. So I didn't have the full wrap. I couldn't afford a van. So I had my pickup truck. It was an old pickup truck. And I put one of those magnets on it. Yeah,

• Speaker #0

  magnetic signs for sure.

• Speaker #2

  We buy houses, yeah. The only time I got any phone calls or anybody that approached me like at a gas station or whatever was people trying to sell me Amway.

• Speaker #0

  I had a lady chase me down. The best deal I ever did. The lady chased me down on the highway. I thought, oh, crap. I must have cut her off or something like that because she was honking and zigzagging behind me. It was like, oh, my God, what's happening? So I pulled over and she rushed up to me. She was so excited. She said, I really need help. selling this house. I ended up, yeah, that was a really nice house, really nice neighborhood, wonky layout, wonky colors, you know, kind of pretty custom built. But yeah, that little deal was an assignment. And I think I made 35 or 40 grand on that one.

• Speaker #2

  And that came from your, your band.

• Speaker #0

  From her chasing me down because she saw the side of my band.

• Speaker #2

  Because of the band. That's awesome. I was, I was telling some of my colleagues and people that I was networking with and masterminding with and. It's like, I'm not getting any leads from my car magnets. And they're like, you're driving too fast, man.

• Speaker #0

  Or you got to blow it up more. Maybe it was a different time. But I think it works. I mean, vehicle signage is good.

• Speaker #2

  I think it works too. Looking back, I know what I did wrong. I had too much information on a sign. You know, just keep it very simple and loud so they can see it and simple.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. And if it's a whole vehicle, you got a lot more space. Oh,

• Speaker #2

  yeah.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. I'll put that on.

• Speaker #2

  Oh, what a great start. So I didn't realize that you and I shared a lot of the same, I guess, process or cycle through our career because I got started very similar. I bought stuff off of the TV also.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah.

• Speaker #2

  And then just implemented it. So that's really cool. Now you got in, you got excited about marketing and you had to because you said necessity, which makes total sense. And now you've turned it into a business. Yeah. I want to get into the business side of it and how you're having so much success with this, but are you still doing real estate investing also? Is this like you're doing both?

• Speaker #0

  A little bit, Kevin. I mean, I won't claim to be a massive syndicator, fund manager, anything like that. That's my main business is and continues to be marketing. I am a passive investor with a couple of my clients and some of their deals, you know, so that's kind of how I keep my finger on it. in things real estate wise personally is more of an LP.

• Speaker #2

  Okay. What are you looking for in a GP?

• Speaker #0

  Oh, track record experience, communication, you know, doing what they say they're going to do when they say they're going to do it. That's, you know, and a little bit of longevity these days. Like I really prefer somebody that's been through the good, the bad and the ugly of real estate cycles.

• Speaker #2

  Yeah. A lot of people haven't seen a downside. I would argue a downturn now.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. Depends. In multifamily, they have definitely seen a downturn. That's for sure.

• Speaker #2

  Is that where you're seeing most of the passive capital going? If I was out there raising capital, is most of that money going into multifamily syndication like it was two or three years ago?

• Speaker #0

  Couldn't really tell you that, Kevin. What I do, who I do work with primarily are the multifamily guys and gals. That's who I'm working with. So those are the folks that were... really trying to help raise capital, which is a much more challenging environment today because their traditional LPs have either gotten stuck in deals that are going nowhere, they're stalled out, or they've lost money on deals that have gone south, or they've had capital. It's been a bloodbath for the last few years in multifamily for a lot of people. And whether or not the operator themselves had challenges, which most have, Because a lot of this is outside of their control. Even if they didn't get caught with the adjustable rate mortgages, they did get caught with increased insurance rates and increased cost of goods and labor and all that kind of stuff. So, yeah, it's been a challenging time. So our whole focus is how do we kind of find fresh fields of prospective investors, people who aren't jaded, who aren't turned off? And quite frankly, right now, in my... Not so shiny crystal ball, but right now seems to be a perfect time to be looking for opportunities in multifamily because because of, you know, the money's made when the blood's in the street kind of thing. Right.

• Speaker #2

  I agree with everything you said. Are you seeing that sponsors are underwriting deals with interest rate reductions and rent escalations? What are you seeing in the packets, in the investor packets?

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, well, I mean, most of the people that I'm talking with, they are looking for opportunities. So they're looking for discounted deals. Value-add. Big times, yes. Well, maybe not even value-add. Like. It's just the prices went stupid the last few years of the boom. So now they're looking at being able to get into those same properties for 30%, 40%, 50% less than what they were selling for at the height. So that's where the real opportunity is there. And some of them, I was just talking with one gentleman, he's not even looking for massive value add. He's just looking for getting a good price on the deal and hopefully the properties. fairly stable as is already.

• Speaker #2

  That's interesting you say that. And I, that's what I've been seeing my network of who I talk to and, and, uh, work with and investments I personally make is very small compared to what you see. Um, so I'll share through my lens and I'm curious what you think or what you're seeing, but the investors I'm talking to and me personally, the, the, the value add stuff where you're looking for high, high returns, you know, mid twenties to low thirties, that sort of thing. Those are, we don't even look at those anymore. We want something that's stable and cash flowing with maybe a small value add. If we can get in the mid-teens in an equity position, that's a great deal right now. But we're looking for cash flow, which isn't always so easy to find. What do you see?

• Speaker #0

  Oh, yeah, for sure. And to me, what you're saying just sounds like getting back to the basics.

• Speaker #2

  Basics, yeah.

• Speaker #0

  What the hell we should have been doing all the time. But. Everybody gets caught up in this frenzy where you can buy a property and flip it basically in 18 months and double your money and all that kind of stuff. People got spoiled with that for a few years. Yeah,

• Speaker #1

  for sure.

• Speaker #0

  So things are leveling out. So now, again, it's all about getting back to those basics and things that people drummed in their heads. If you followed Robert Kiyosaki from day one, like cash flow is king, It's just going back to what... makes logical sense and not relying on speculation and massive appreciation to make your money.

• Speaker #2

  So those fully vacant apartment buildings are a little tougher to raise money on right now.

• Speaker #0

  I would imagine. You could probably get a smoking deal on them though, that's for sure.

• Speaker #2

  Yeah. I mean, you're right. We would see somewhere between zero and 20% occupancy and those are the deals everyone was chasing. Which is, we've just seen a shift in the past couple of years.

• Speaker #0

  Exactly. Now, again, with those vacant buildings, I can see massive opportunity there. For sure. Right? Because you're going to be, that's, you're buying the problem, right? So you're going to buy it at a massive discount.

• Speaker #2

  It's just harder to raise capital and it takes forever. Like stabilizing an apartment building isn't as easy as you think.

• Speaker #0

  No. Especially if you're starting from zero.

• Speaker #2

  It takes a lot of capital because you got to remodel each unit, you know, and you could phase it in, but it just takes a lot to get through that.

• Speaker #0

  I hear you. Yeah, for sure.

• Speaker #2

  All right. Let's hear about your success in raising $350 million. I mean, that's huge, right? So you do it really with a niche in podcasting. So I want to hear about your podcast, but maybe more of a global view. Like why podcasting?

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. Good question, Kevin. I love talking with podcasters about this. I don't know about you, but the reason I got into podcasting was kind of following the coattails of everybody else that I saw in the space. Everybody else has got a show, I better have a show, but I didn't really have any logic behind it. So I fumbled around with my show for years, just kind of onesie, twosie episodes every once in a while whenever I got around to it. I was hoping, you know, here was my goal. I wanted to interview the Kiyosakis and the Grant Cardones of the real estate world. And then I was really hoping that those guys would be so thrilled to be on my show. They couldn't help themselves, but they would just promote the snot out of it to their gazillions of followers. And all of those gazillions of followers would become Dave's gazillions of followers and rabid fans. And a lot of them would figure out Dave was a smart guy and circle around. And hopefully they'd book in calls and I'd get business from that. So there was a hell of a lot of hoping happening for a long time, Kevin, and not much traction. Because here's the reality. It's actually not that big of a deal to get the big names on a show. They've been interviewed a gazillion times. So it actually isn't that much of a draw because they've been, they're already everywhere anyhow, right? So it's not that big of a deal. And they certainly are not going to promote their appearance on my crappy little podcast like that, that doesn't even register for them. So that didn't work. And around the time this came to be was around the time COVID hit is when, you know, I was kind of having. So up until then, I've been offering my marketing services and what I do through live events, speaking gigs, going around, speaking at real estate investment clubs and RIAs and whatnot, and then putting on three-day live events and all this kind of stuff. I was so pleased with myself because the end of 2019, I had my whole calendar for 2020 already booked out. All of these speaking engagements, all of these... follow up three-day events. Like it was, I was booked solid. First time I was so well, nicely organized. Then we all remember what happened.

• Speaker #2

  That changed.

• Speaker #0

  That changed, kapow. Okay, reinvent things, go online. And that's fine. That was working well for a while, doing the virtual events and all that kind of stuff. But I was having a challenge consistently generating quality leads for my business. It was frustrating. It was kind of like hit and miss. And then I happened to be listening to a podcast one day and a very smart young guy was on there being interviewed. And he said, you know what? I really don't give a darn about my podcast numbers, like how many listeners I have, how many downloads I have, all that stuff that most of us are really concerned about. And I don't want to go after these big wigs anymore. What I want to do or what I'm doing, what this guy said is. I have gone exclusively after interviewing the kind of people I want to work with directly. So skip to the front of the line. Instead of trying to create an audience of your ideal avatar, just interview them instead. And instead of doing one interview every two or three weeks or whatever it is, do five, 10, 15, 20 interviews a week with your ideal prospect. And that's when the light bulb went off. And I thought, wow, okay, this is cool. That makes sense. Like skip the front of the line. Cause that whole thing, trying to create an audience of my avatar and hoping they'll reach out and that wasn't working very well. So I switched my podcast over, which easier said than done. Like it, of course, this guy had a training program and a little coaching thing and whatever, whatever. So I spent a whole bunch of thousands of dollars. And then still, I still had to build the whole thing up myself. I am not super techie. So that took months to get everything kind of set up and integrations and da-da-da-da-da-da-da. But I did it. And very quickly turned things around for my own lead flow. So I did go crazy for a little while, Kevin. At one point, I was doing, I think at the peak, I did 25 interviews in one week. and just about. you know, shock myself. That's, that's too much. Dialed it back. The sweet spot for, for me and most of our clients is somewhere between, you know, five to 10 interviews a week is, is pretty ideal. And now I had a predictable funnel, a predictable pipeline of prospects. So instead of putting stuff out there and hoping people come to me, Now we go find the exact kind of people that we want to work with and invite them to be a guest on the podcast. And the nice thing is, I call it leading with a giving head. Instead of saying, hey, Kevin, love what you're up to. Hey, let's jump on a sales call. Let me pitch you my stuff. Instead, it's, hey, Kevin, love what you're up to. I'd love to have you as a featured guest on my podcast. I'd love to give you free exposure, free PR. My team will create a whole bunch of great social media content for you. We'll help you really kind of leverage your appearance on the show and get a lot more exposure. Would you like to be a featured guest? Guess which one gets more yeses? Be a featured guest. And whether or not we do business together or not, the guest does get all of that, right? But then here's what I found. When you interview somebody and you really shine the spotlight on them. Instead of trying to shine it on yourself. Like you feature your guest. You make them look good, sound good, feel good. That creates rapport. Like everybody loves talking about themselves, having people ask them questions. So when you're the person asking the questions and genuinely interested in the other person, then that creates rapport, creates relationship, kind of fast tracks a little bit of that know, like, and trust factor, which we need, you know, if we're going to do business with somebody. So I just loved the whole process. And then at the end, it's very simple because we built up a little bit of a relationship there. to create a bit of curiosity about what it is I do and get the other person booked into a follow-up discovery call where we can show them what we do. So I did that for my own business for a couple of years, worked really, really well. And then I thought, hey, you know what? This could probably work really well for syndicators and fund managers and capital raisers because I've been helping people raise capital, but I've been working with the newbies. I've been working with the brand new capital raisers. And I really wanted to be able to offer something to the more experienced folks that already had a track record, that already had experience. And already they're looking to connect with more accredited investors. I thought, bang, this could work well for that. So at this point, it was about two and a half years ago, we started this as a turnkey done for you service where we work with capital raisers and fund managers, build them a show, fill it with their ideal investor prospects and help them convert. interviews into discovery calls and discovery calls into commitments.

• Speaker #2

  Cool. And we don't have to scale the Empire State Building to get the followers.

• Speaker #0

  We don't even worry about the followers. Here's the cool thing as well. You do get followers, but when you don't focus on that as your primary thing, the stress goes down immensely. And then instead of doing all sorts of wonky things to try and kind of grow your audience any way you can. It grows organically because guess what? The guests you bring on your show aren't professional podcast guests that are being interviewed every two days, right? So these guests want to share their episode. They want to show their stuff. They want to share on social media that, hey, I was just interviewed on Kevin's show and here's the link and check it out. So your audience grows organically. From the friends and the cohort of the people that you interview. And guess who they tend to hang out with? Other people similar to them, right? So it's a natural organic growth that way.

• Speaker #2

  It makes so much sense. That sounds like a lot of work also. So I know you have a do it yourself, which we'll talk more about that. But 20, what'd you say, 25 episodes in one week? Yeah, don't do that.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, don't do that. That's too much, right?

• Speaker #2

  You're going to have a half hour show each one, right? Yeah.

• Speaker #0

  So what we recommend is in order to not drive yourself crazy, be efficient. So what we do with our clients when we're working with somebody is we have them block off two hours, two times a week. Okay. So that's a total of four hours that you're going to dedicate to talking with your ideal investor prospects. Good use of your time. I would say. All right. And in one of those two hour blocks, we divvy that up into three 40 minute blocks, three 40 minute interview blocks. Ding, ding, ding. So back to back to back. And we keep the interviews fairly short. So 20 minutes, that gives the person enough time. So you got five minutes before you start the interview to kind of break the ice, put the other person at ease because a lot of them have never been interviewed before. So kind of calm them down. 20 minutes is enough time for a good interview to really kind of spotlight them, talk about their experience. So this is the other thing, right? The show is all about your guest. It's not about you. And I can explain more about that in a minute. But it really is like talk about their personal, professional, financial success. Towards the end of the interview, we kind of want to naturally bring things towards what their thoughts are about creating income outside of work or outside of their business. aka investing right just got to open up the conversation and then at the end of the interview you're still on zoom with the other person that's in the green room we circle back and we create that curiosity get them booked into a follow-up discovery call to

• Speaker #2

  find out what we do with with our real estate deals yeah that's genius it's like it's like back in the day we would go out and have coffees or never never eat alone or something wasn't there a book yeah this and it's

• Speaker #0

  It's exactly the same way. So this is. But here's the cool thing. Instead of a free lunch somebody's getting, they're getting free exposure, free publicity, free marketing by being a guest on your podcast. And as you know, Kevin, being a host, it kind of flips the dynamic. Like they aren't seeing you as just another sales guy trying to wring money out of them. They're seeing you as the host of a media, of a platform. So they're kind of looking up to you. They're a little bit nervous about meeting you because you're going to be interviewing them. So it flips the power dynamic a bit there as well.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah. The most value I've gotten from this podcast, Dave, has been that, the guests that I've had on the show. Now, we do get leads and we do get some business from it. And I'm out at networking events or I'm speaking at something and people come up to me and say, I love the show. So I get that sort of feedback frequently. But the real value, the tangible value is the connections you make with the guests. So I could not agree more.

• Speaker #0

  Exactly. And this is just really putting that on steroids and being very logical about that, being very intentional with this whole process, right? Like that's our method of podcasting. That is the purpose of the show is to connect with the right kind of guests on a consistent basis and naturally turn those into conversations about how we can work.

• Speaker #1

  This episode is brought to you by Pine Financial Group. Pine Financial is a private lender specializing in short-term rehab lending to real estate investors. Got a property that needs some love? We can help. We are able to offer funding solutions because we raise private money from individual investors. With more than 15 years of experience, Pine offers passive investors an alternative that provides stability, consistency, and security to your portfolio. If you like real estate but want to avoid the ups and downs and effort, A Pine Mortgage Fund could be a perfect fit for you. Accredited investors will experience an 8% preferred return and profit sharing. Diversify your portfolio out of Wall Street and into Main Street with a Pine Financial Group Fund. To get more information at pinefinancialgroup.com, that's pinefinancialgroup.com. You mentioned that this is a great way to build rapport because people like to talk about themselves. I totally agree. And you probably did this when you were getting started in real estate and you're going into the living rooms. But before you go into your sales pitch, right, you need to talk about them. So just a quick nugget for the listener. What I used to use when I was going into people's living rooms was the acronym FORM, F-O-R-M. Have you heard of this, Dave?

• Speaker #0

  Maybe I did, but I've forgotten.

• Speaker #1

  Forgot about it. So before I could talk about my message, which is the M when I'm trying to do, I got to talk about their friends and their family, the F, their occupation, which is O, and what they do for fun, their recreation. So F-O-R-M. And so when I walk into a house, I'm thinking form and that's really helped me. But this is just an easier way, it sounds like, to do that.

• Speaker #0

  It's a different way. So you're talking about when you're going into seller's houses and you're trying to do a deal, right? Yeah. So this is a little bit different. In our case, we're... we're bringing on prospective investors to the show and it's slightly different thing about form but yeah it's all about personal professional financial success that's typically what the conversation is about yeah that's great so as long as you have a

• Speaker #1

  i mean some kind of a script or some kind of process to draw out what you're trying to draw out yeah i assume that really helps do you have i mean you've created that and you help people with that like how do you If I'm not a podcast host, it's kind of scary to be the host too, right? Oh,

• Speaker #0

  for sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So a lot of people are concerned about that. Dave, I've never interviewed anybody ever before kind of thing. Hey, no big deal. We work on a choreography of questions. Quite frankly, Kevin, in a 20-minute interview, you probably aren't going to get past five to seven questions anyhow with a little bit of back and forth and, you know, digging in a bit there. And the other nice thing is once you got those, you can mix them up and everything. It's really all about that opener question about the creating income outside of work. That's when I'm working one-on-one with clients, that's what we practice. That's what we role play. That's what we rehearse is that one question. The other ones are all easy. Like you can have those on a piece of paper and just kind of go through. The magic is getting somebody open up a little bit about what their thoughts are about creating income outside of their work. So I can role play that with you for a second if you want. Let's do it. Just for fun. Okay. So let's pretend we're erasing all of your real estate knowledge and you are what? A successful business owner, a successful doctor, C-suite executive. Who do you want to be today?

• Speaker #1

  I want to be an attorney for some reason.

• Speaker #0

  Oh my God.

• Speaker #1

  I don't know why that came to my mind. Here's to attorneys. I love you.

• Speaker #0

  All right. So Kevin, the successful attorney. So the first 15 minutes or so of our conversation, we'd be talking about, you know, how you got into, why did you decide to become an attorney? What sets you apart? What your secret sauce is? What are big challenges that you've overcome in your career? Yada, yada. Then I might come around. Then I want to open up the question about investing, right? Without it seeming salesy or weird, right? So it should seem natural. So I'd say something like this. Okay, hey, Kevin, congratulations on the success of your practice. Now, I know that a lot of busy attorneys like yourself, they're doing really, really well financially right now, but if they aren't doing those billable hours, the income quickly shrinks. And some of them are looking towards the future. They wanna keep that level of income high without having to work so hard for it. So some of them are looking at different ways of creating income outside of their practice. Things like. maybe investing in stocks or bonds or mutual funds or crypto, stuff like that. Kevin, what are your thoughts about creating income outside of your law practice?

• Speaker #1

  Well, I've had some friends share with me that diversification is really important. And it's been a little while before I've, it took me a while to learn what that really means because my financial advisor tells me diversification is just investing in different stocks. But I'm starting to learn that there's more investment options out there.

• Speaker #0

  outside of wall street so we're just exploring that now perfect time out i wish they're all that easy well you gave me a soft buy i mean i had to hit it out of the park right there you go well so most of them are going to say whatever it doesn't even really matter what they say right it could be oh i reinvest everything back in the business or i got a financial planner takes care all that stuff for me i got a company 401k plan let them take doesn't matter we just opened up the conversation. Then the trick is at the end of the interview, once I've stopped the recording and Kevin, the attorney and I are still on Zoom together, they were a little bit of housekeeping. Hey, Kevin, this will be coming out in the next few weeks, blah, But then what I want to do is I want to circle back to that little part of the conversation, see if I can create a hook, create some curiosity and get Kevin booked into a follow-up discovery recall. where I can show them what I do in real estate, right? So you want me to show you how that might work, Kevin?

• Speaker #1

  Yes.

• Speaker #0

  All right. All right. So back in the role play and say, hey, Kevin, great job on that interview. Can't believe that was the very first podcast interview you've ever done. You're like, you're a natural man. Now, you mentioned, we were talking a little bit about creating income outside of your practice. And you mentioned that you're starting to look at alternative investments and different things like that. Well, with your current investments, Kevin, Are you happy with the kind of returns you're getting, the security and the stability of those investments? Or is there maybe a little room for improvement there?

• Speaker #1

  I am happy with the returns right now, but I think we might be approaching some type of bubble. So I think it really is time to diversify a little bit.

• Speaker #0

  Okay, good. So time out. 99 times out of 100, people will say, that's okay, but there's always room for improvement.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah.

• Speaker #0

  It's a setup question, really. So then I'd circle back, okay, cool, Kevin. Well, we're doing something really interesting with some other busy professionals, lawyers like yourself, in alternative investing in apartment buildings. And the great thing is, not only are we able to get them very solid, steady-eddy, double-digit returns on their money, but quite often, we can even save them a big chunk on their personal income taxes. Is that something you might be interested in taking a quick look at?

• Speaker #1

  I would.

• Speaker #0

  Boom. Book them into a follow-up discovery call. Don't pitch them there. Book them into a follow-up discovery call where you can show them your stuff. Does that make sense, Kevin?

• Speaker #1

  Yes, it does. And I have to say that you just dropped some gold on us, Dave. So for the listener, this is one of those times you might want to rewind and listen to that bit several times because that's what you want to ingrain in your mind and then go and practice. So when you are in front of an investor, whether it's on a podcast or somewhere else, you know how to approach that piece of the conversation. So great job, Dave.

• Speaker #0

  Thank you.

• Speaker #1

  I would like, I know we're running up against it here. I would like to go through some of the notes, some of the things that I've learned in this last 40 minutes that we had together. And then if you're up for it, I would love for you to either fill in some gaps and or share one final piece of advice for a real estate investor that might be trying to raise some money.

• Speaker #0

  Sure.

• Speaker #1

  So we got started with your story, Ron Legrand, late night TV. You know, a lot of people go out drinking and having a good time at night and they come home and that's when they buy. I don't know if that was you or not, but something pulled you into that Ron Legrand and it changed your life.

• Speaker #0

  I don't think I've been drinking that night, but you never know. I have. I haven't bought. I'm Canadian. I do like the beer from time to time.

• Speaker #1

  I don't know why I just brought that up, but I was partying one night with my friends and that came on. We're like, dude, we got to buy this. So that's what we did. But it changed your life. So that was a fantastic decision that you made. And then you went on to do 18 and 18, 18 deals in 18 months. And we didn't even get a chance to really get into some of those transactions. But great job, man. That's really cool. We talked about sticking to a process. So once you get a process, just stick to that. And that's how you had success with the LeBron LeGrand program. Dan Kennedy, for those of you listening, that's a fantastic name to know for marketing. Go out and buy and read his books. Well, what you're looking for from sponsors is track record communication and then longevity. So how long have they been doing this? Have they gone through a downturn before? Investors are out there, guys. They're still looking for opportunities. We're going back to the basics is what I wrote down. So there's opportunities out there, but investors are going back to the basics. They don't care about your numbers on your podcasts, care about what you're trying to get in value. So what is the... end result you're looking for and attack that. Don't try to grow your audience. And specifically, you're trying to meet people. Use a podcast to meet people. Interview your ideal prospect five to 10 a week. Lead with a giving hand, you said. So add value, build rapport, and then share with what you ultimately want, which is that discovery call. It's all about them. Takes about four hours a week. How'd I do?

• Speaker #0

  You did very well. Yeah. If you're, if you got it structured properly, you can do six interviews in four hours. Um, and then you just make sure you got a team that will take that and produce the episodes and the content and all that kind of stuff for you. Otherwise it'll take a hell of a lot longer than that, but you should not be doing that stuff yourself.

• Speaker #1

  And I know we're right against it here, but can you share with me, how do you build that team? What do you do?

• Speaker #0

  Well, you can do it yourself, which is what I did back in the beginning. So it's, you know, trial and error, Fiverr, Upwork, all this kind of stuff. all of my team is virtual they're overseas most of them yeah every single one of them actually so uh do it that way there's lots of people on fiverr that do different things don't try to have one va do everything for you i see that that's a big mistake they can't do it so you need or or you can hire a podcast production service if you want or you work with somebody like me it'll do the whole thing for you do the whole thing okay well tell us about that tell us about your hand holding your all-encompassing package Yeah. So basically, well, basically, if anybody really wants to find out more about the whole process, go ahead, grab a copy of my book. It's how to get 20 accredited investor meetings every month, which is exactly what we've been talking about here, Kevin. So 20accreditedinvestorsbook.com. That's the number 20accreditedinvestorsbook.com. You can get the book. It'll walk you through the process much more in depth. But bottom line, what we do, Kevin, is we work with the client. We really define who their ideal investor is. avatar is. Then we build them a show that appeals to that avatar to be a guest on. Then we go out, we find those people and get six interviews booked in on our clients' calendars every single week. And then we help them convert those interviews into discovery calls, into warm commitments, and then into capital. And then in the back end, my team takes those interviews and Edits them, produces them, creates content from them, releases them, gets them out into the world so that the client can focus on the number one priority, which is talking with, meeting, and converting the guests into investors.

• Speaker #1

  So I suspect if I'm willing to give up four hours a week and work with your team and I'm talking to 20 or 20, well, you said 20, but six a week, which is more than 20, frankly. But if I'm talking to six investors a week, I'm probably going to have some success.

• Speaker #0

  Well, we have one client that out of 260 total interviews that they did in around a year, they added 80 investors to their VIP investor list in that timeframe. So yes, it works very, very well. Just spoke with my client, Tim, last week, he landed his biggest investor ever. And he's been doing this for 15 years through the podcast. So yeah. It's very, very effective, Kevin.

• Speaker #1

  And every one investor, maybe you know the statistics here, and every one investor really is worth one and a half to two, something in that range because. Depending on how good you are at getting referrals and that sort of thing. But once you produce, they will refer. So that one investor is worth more than one investor, right?

• Speaker #0

  Well, not only that. That one investor, yeah, between re-ups, so reinvesting with you again in future deals, and referrals, and then reviews, testimonials, yeah, worth much more than one investor.

• Speaker #1

  There's a high value in every single one of those. Do you ever go to Podcast Movement?

• Speaker #0

  I don't, no.

• Speaker #1

  I've been once and I was a little disappointed, but I know a lot of big podcasts are there and people seem to love it. But I was like, I was a little overwhelmed, frankly, but. Well, yeah,

• Speaker #0

  that's probably more of the traditional podcast, grow your audience.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, I think so.

• Speaker #0

  Everybody who wants to be the next Joe Rogan kind of thing.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, exactly.

• Speaker #0

  This, for me, a podcast is a means to an end. It is a marketing method. Doesn't replace everything else. It's just another great tool to have in the toolbox, Kevin.

• Speaker #1

  Well, I do know that you have a lot of fantastic guests on your podcast. Like you.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, like you.

• Speaker #1

  I have at least one good guest, right, Dave?

• Speaker #0

  Property

• Speaker #1

  Profits Real Estate Podcast. You get the book at, what is it? 20 Accredited Investors. I'm looking behind you. 20accreditedinvestorsbook.com. How do we get a hold of you if we want to just reach out to you? Is that possible?

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, my website's probably the best place. Resultsenterprises.com. Resultsenterprises.com. Or you can find me on LinkedIn.

• Speaker #1

  All right. Well, up to 25 in one week. You're a busy guy and you still chose to hang out with me for 40 minutes. Well,

• Speaker #0

  I ain't doing that 25 a week anymore, Matt. It's six to 10 a week for me. Yeah, that's crazy.

• Speaker #1

  I bet you had some success. You know what they say when you're feeling a little pressure or you're starting to hit a wall or like what a lot of us are experiencing right now with the downturn, like we're just feeling a little tighter. Massive actions pulls you out of that. 25 interviews in a week. will pull you out of a funk, right? So just thinking that out loud. Anyway, I know you're super busy and you still chose to hang out with me. So thank you so much.

• Speaker #0

  Absolute pleasure. Thank you very much for having me on your show. Keep up the great work, Kevin.

• Speaker #1

  You're awesome, Dave. And for the listener, you have other podcasts you could choose to listen to and you chose the Real Estate Educators podcast. This was a good one. I hope you got some value from it. If you did, help me out. Five-star review, share it with a friend, and I hope you make this day a great one. I really hope you enjoyed this episode as much as I did. If you did, please be sure to follow and leave a five-star review. Oh yeah, and tell a friend.