Jackie Coffey - How NOT to Flip a House: Lessons Learned from 1,000+ Deals | Real Estate Educators Podcast with Kevin Amolsch

Description

Jackie Coffey's first house flip went about as badly as a flip could go.

She hired one person to handle the entire renovation. Contractors took her money and disappeared. Materials were stolen from the property. She replaced things that didn't need replacing. And after all that work, she practically broke even.

But she didn't quit.

In this episode of the Real Estate Educators Podcast, Kevin Amolsch sits down with Jackie Coffey, "The Happy Investor," to talk about the lessons she's learned through 22 years in real estate, more than 1,000 transactions, and helping more than 1,000 students with their own deals.

Jackie shares how she got started at 21 years old while working three jobs and struggling financially, and how it took 202 phone calls to hard money lenders before someone finally said yes to her first deal. More importantly, she explains how those calls taught her to understand the numbers, speak the language of real estate, and stop treating every "no" as a failure.

Kevin and Jackie break down some of the biggest fix-and-flip mistakes new investors make, including over-improving properties, choosing contractors based solely on price, paying contractors upfront, purchasing materials too early, and failing to take accountability when things go wrong.

Jackie also shares one of the most important lessons from her career: you don't have to know everything before you start. You have to be willing to learn, take responsibility for your mistakes, and keep going.

Whether you're preparing for your first flip or already have dozens under your belt, this episode is packed with practical lessons that could save you time, money, and plenty of headaches on your next project.

TIMESTAMPS

00:00 - Starting real estate at 21 years old
05:30 - Overcoming the fear of getting started
08:15 - Finding her first fix-and-flip deal
16:20 - Learning how to talk to hard money lenders
23:20 - Why hard money can be so powerful for new investors
29:10 - Taking accountability when a flip goes wrong
34:45 - Why successful investors have to keep going
38:05 - How Not to Flip a House
40:40 - Jackie's pricing strategy for fix and flips

Connect with Jackie Coffey

Find Jackie across TikTok, Facebook, and Instagram as Jackie The Happy Investor.

Visit JackieTheHappyInvestor.com to learn more about Jackie's book, How Not to Flip a House, her real estate investing course, and additional resources for investors.

Learn more about Pine Financial Group at pinefinancialgroup.com

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Transcription

Speaker #0
On top of being in just poverty and having no money, I had three jobs. Nothing was working, so I was like, I've got to find something. I've got to do something. And while I am not smarter than the average bear, I would listen to the smarter people around me, and they were always talking about real estate. I have to stop talking. I know that sounds odd for calling, but I was like, I have to stop talking. I'm getting very excited because I am a pressure speaker. So the more excited I get, the faster I talk and the louder I get. I've gone to speech therapy for when I was little. It's just the way I am and I've accepted it. So I told myself, I have to stop talking. I need to listen to what they're saying and what they're not saying. But, you know, it's that moment. It's that moment of when you're crying and you think this is the worst thing in the world and you are ready to walk away. It's saying, I'm going to be disciplined enough to keep going. I'm going to be committed enough to myself and trust myself that I have learned this and I can do better. And it's basically just not giving up when at the moment you feel like this is the time to give up.
Speaker #1
We were in negotiations, investing in real estate. They're winning, they're making money.
Speaker #2
What's up, everyone? Welcome to the Real Estate Educators Podcast, where we provide the education you can build on. I am your host, Kevin Amos. We are back. We're having so much fun with this podcast. We're helping real estate investors and real estate educators. Are you out there building a portfolio or fixing and flipping? Or are you out there educating other investors. is the podcast for you. I am really excited about this episode, you guys. We have Jackie Coffey with us today. We're going to talk about fixing and flipping. She is the happy investor with over 1,000 transactions done. And it sounds like you've helped over 1,000 students with their transactions as well. So I'm super excited to have you. Welcome to the show.
Speaker #0
Thank you so much. And yes, yes, I've been doing it now for 22 years. It's been a hot minute. So you get a couple under your belt after doing it that long.
Speaker #2
That's amazing. So you and I have been in about the same amount of time and we got started at about the same age. So we have that in common. I could tell you I've since I've been through a couple of cycles now, I've also learned a lot. And I bet you I'm going to learn something from you here today. So take me back. Twenty one years old, Jackie.
Speaker #0
Oh, twenty twenty one year old Jackie. Let me tell you, I just had this blissfully ignorant mindset thinking, you know what? I saw someone flipping a house. I bet I could flip a house. They could do it. I can do it. Easy, right? So I thought, let's do this. You know, but the hard part was in 2004, there wasn't social media. There wasn't TikTok or YouTube. Well, there was YouTube, but it was like cats with the flying toasters situation. So I just had to march my happy little self down to the library and start researching real estate, researching real estate loans and mortgages and finding out what everything means. That's how I really got started. And that's when I found that there was something called a hard money loan. So I was like, I was reading it. It says, you don't have to have any cash and you don't have to have any credit. And I was like, oh my God, that's great. I have neither of those. So this is perfect for me. So I start looking for a house and I found one that I loved and I start calling lenders. And let me tell you, it sounds easy in theory when you're like, I've got this. But then I start calling lenders and eventually... I got a yes, but it took me 202 phone calls of calling and getting hung up on and told no. And you don't know what you're doing, kid, until I finally got a yes. But and then I thought, oh, man, I got the yes. Hard part's over. This is it. This is a cakewalk now. And then I get into my first flip having just being as green as the grass outside, not knowing what the hell I'm doing. And thought, you know, this this is this is the worst shit show that you could ever possibly have. I messed up my. first flip so badly. And I was after the first flip, which let me, let me back up a little bit. It, everything that could go wrong in this first flip went wrong. I mean, everything. I hired one guy to do the whole flip, not even one guy with a helper, one guy. And I'm talking to do the roof, the sod, the painting, the plumbing, you name it. So we're going at a snail's pace. Then I am paying contractors up front. They're running off with my money. I go to Home Depot, I get a draw, and I think, oh my gosh, I'm the coolest person in the world, right? I just got, you know, thousands of dollars. So I walk into Home Depot like the boss I think I am, which I'm so not, and I buy everything that I need. I bought all the shingles, the sod, countertops, appliances, trims, everything. Had it delivered right in the middle of the flip. Didn't even dawn on me this could be in the way of the flip. No, no, no, I just had it all set down in the living room. I go back the next Monday to see how my contractor's doing.
Speaker #2
You put the sod in the living room?
Speaker #0
No, that was on the front porch. That was outside. So I go back Monday because I want to see the progress this made. I walk in the house and I'm like, oh good, everything is gone and it's put up. And I'm looking around and I'm like, the baseboards aren't in. The appliances are not in. Everything got stolen by the one contractor that I hired. So it's just, and it's just getting worse and worse. I'm hiring guys. They're doing drugs on the job side or someone's sleeping, someone's drinking. So it was not the best flip, but it was one for the books because it's where I learned every single lesson or at least the first 10 good ones.
Speaker #2
Okay. I want to get into these lessons here. This is fantastic. So I want to take me back before that first flip, Jackie, what made you get, what excited you about real estate at that young age?
Speaker #0
Well, now there's a few factors. One, I was drawn towards it, but I didn't really know why. I had no idea. And that's something I didn't find out till, you know, I was in my late 30s. And I was like, oh, wow. But for me, I'm very competitive. I and I could see someone doing a flip and I didn't like the way they were doing it. Not that I'm just and I'm watching them for the, you know, these days that they're doing it. I'm just I'm just critiquing it terribly. I'm like, look at that ugly color. Look at that door is so ugly. Right. I have no idea what they're going through. But I'm like, I could do that. I bet I could do that better. So On top of being in just poverty and having no money, I had three jobs, nothing was working. So I was like, I've got to find something. I've got to do something. And while I am not smarter than the average bear, I would listen to the smarter people around me. And they were always talking about real estate. They were always saying, oh, if you want to retire without having to rely on the government, get into real estate, or the 1% has real estate. So even though I didn't know anything about it, I just, like I said, in that blissfully ignorant mindset, I was like, well, they they're smart. They're saying something about it. I see someone doing it. Maybe I could do it better. So that's what initially put me that way. And then, of course, just being so tired of not having money. But there was a moment because I talked myself into it. I knew I wanted to flip a house and I was driving and I had my my brand new little baby girl Bella in the backseat. She was brand new. And I stopped at a stoplight and I'll never forget this moment. This is, it sticks with me. It will always stick with me. And I, like I said, I had three jobs and I'm at the stoplight and I see the check oil light come on and my heart just sank. I was like, oh my God, I don't even have money for extra food. You know, it was such a struggle then you're 21, you're starting. I had a little girl and I just remember thinking, how am I going to ever do that? How am I going? to get enough money for that. You know, I mean, okay, I can do it if I don't eat this week, you know? And so there was a moment and I'm sitting at that stoplight and this all happens in just a matter of seconds as these thoughts come in. And I was like, okay, I just, I told myself I was going to flip a house. I'm just going to do it because I can't live like this forever. I can't. And then I start getting excited about it. I'm like, you know what? I'll flip a house and I'll, I'll pay the contractors. I'll give them one of those little rippy checks out of the checkbook and I'll be the boss. You're fantasizing about it. It'll be so cool and it'll be so fun. But then immediately, as soon as I started giving myself permission to do it, was just as fast as I took myself back down. And I was like, what are you doing? You can't do that. You don't know anything about real estate. You don't know anything about anything. You had to go to the library just to start looking up these terms. What are you doing? And then I thought, everyone's going to call me flaky if I start and I don't finish. And I was very worried about being judged by people. So I thought, you know what, I'm not going to do it. I'm not going to flip a house because I don't want to deal with that. And it was at that very next second when I had that fear kind of come over me of, you know, people looking down on me if I don't do good. I thought, oh my God, I'm so scared of that. But what if I am in the same position that I'm in right now a year from now? Same three jobs, same car, oil lights coming on, it's not working, and nothing has changed. So that fear of standing still was really the push. I was more afraid of being in the same spot with no money and not progressing than I was for people to make fun of me. So that was the turning point of saying, you know what? Screw what everybody thinks. I'm not going to know what they really think anyway. I'm going to take a chance on myself and I'm going to do it.
Speaker #2
That's amazing. I talk about this sometimes and you said it so well. Fear is crippling and people have trouble. getting started in real estate, as you know, with all the students you've helped because of fear. But it's also scary to be in the same place you are in a year or five years from now. And I ask, I ask people all the time, what's scarier? And for you, it was more scary to have three jobs in a year than to go out and do that. Yeah, it was terrifying.
Speaker #0
I just, you know, not when it's, when it's that part of your life and you're saying, okay, is it going to be the internet or is it going to be, you know, the gas bill or what is it? And I just didn't. And here's the thing. I didn't get into this thinking, oh, man, I want to be super wealthy and have some pie in the sky. I just wanted to know that I could change my oil without having to miss a meal. That that's what I wanted. I wasn't trying to, of course we all need money and we want money. There's nothing wrong with that because, but money to me is very, very different. You know, it was about the more money I make, the more time I have, the more freedom I have, the more I can live life on my terms. So that was really what it was about. It wasn't about, oh, I need to go get a purse or something. Not that there's anything wrong with any of the ladies listening that want to buy a purse. That's, Hey, that's your prerogative. My priorities were just very different and still are.
Speaker #2
So you didn't get into it to build wealth, but I suspect over the last 22 years, you have done that.
Speaker #0
Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. And it's and that's but like I said, it's the factor was I want to live a life with dignity. I want to live on my terms. I don't want a nine to five to where I have to ask permission to go to the restroom. I don't want to do that. I want to build this. And then when it got to a point that I built it, well, built it well enough. I said, you know, I didn't have anyone to help me. I take it back. I don't want to lie to you. That was part of it. But really, I got into a car wreck and I couldn't walk, which I'm totally fine now. My feet are great. But I broke one of my I got a I broke one of my feet. I broke my foot. And so I was kind of stuck, which I'm never standing still. So it was at that moment I was like, you know what? Let's go on TikTok while I'm sitting here and give some pointers and help some people and just give some advice. on what has worked for me and maybe it could work for them or maybe they can take what I've done and make it even better. So that's how I started teaching and helping other people.
Speaker #2
Okay. And I definitely want to try to get into that if we have time. But I want to go back to that first deal because there's so many lessons that our listeners can learn from you in that one deal. So if we could kind of go through the process here a little bit, I know you were motivated. You wanted to change your oil and fix your car and those things. And you decided to get into real estate and do a fix and flip. So what did you do to find that very first deal?
Speaker #0
So the first flip, my very first flip, I got with a realtor and I just said, send me everything that's under 200,000 in my area. And at that time, 200,000, 2004, that was huge. That was a huge number. You know, most of the houses I bought then were 60,000, 20,000, 40,000. I live in a small town, old area. So I got with a realtor and I just had them continue to send me properties. I would drive, I would look at them. I mean, and there's days I would look at eight, nine properties in a day. And then I found one that I thought had pretty good margins. Hold on, let me, the profit was going to be about $15,000. That's what I thought was good margins at the time. And hey, I'm not knocking 15, but we know you can easily go over budget and eat that in two seconds. So, but at the time 15 was like, wow. So I found, I just kept looking. I found the house that I thought had good numbers. And that's the one that I got.
Speaker #2
And you just started cold calling out of the newspaper, probably. Cause I don't know that. Well, I found an internet back then. Was there, I mean, where did you find hard money lenders?
Speaker #0
I got, I got the yellow pages. That was the first thing I did. And I don't, I know some people don't know what those are, but it is a book that has everyone's name, number, and address. You can just find out where people lived. It was totally fine. And, uh, So I start calling different mortgage companies. I started calling banks and I'm looking for hard money lenders. And it is a little bit more difficult to find them. So I get all of these numbers from phone books. I call and I'm about a hundred calls in. And I have talked to some hard money lenders, some normal lenders. And everyone's just like, you know, your kid, you don't know what you're talking about. You're brand new. And for me, it did get very discouraging to keep getting the nose. And there was a... point when I was about a hundred calls in that I was like, I'm so done with this. This isn't working. I'm I'm I just, I can't do it. I've got a hundred no's, you know, most people might quit after 10 or 50 here. My stubborn self is saying, no, no, no, let's keep going. So I have this complete conniption fit after about, you know, call a hundred through all my papers. I'm mad. I'm, you know, crying out of frustration. I'm like, this isn't working.
Speaker #2
I don't know why I could picture this. I could, I could picture you like throwing the phone book.
Speaker #0
Absolutely. So then I go to the internet. And while there's not a lot of internet there is, I start typing in hard money lenders. I'm getting desperate. And to my surprise, I start finding some. I start finding some in listings. And so I print all those out, not just my state. Nationwide, I printed out as many as I could. And I start calling. But there was a point in this that I stopped. And I was like, okay, I have to stop talking. I know that sounds odd for calling, but I was like, I have to stop talking. I'm getting very excited because I am a pressure speaker. So the more excited I get, the faster I talk and the louder I get. I've gone to speech therapy for when I was little. It's just the way I am and I've accepted it. So I told myself, I have to stop talking. I need to listen to what they're saying and what they're not saying. If I slow down just a little bit and I listen to these keywords because I was calling them saying, hey, I'm Jackie Brown. That was my main name. I'm Jackie Brown and I'm as green as a grass outside. I don't know what the hell I'm doing. I got a house. I think I can flip it. I promise I'm going to do, I'm going to try real hard and I'm not going to mess up your money. And I sound like, like I am just as green as a grass outside. And I start realizing I don't need to say all of that. And as I am going, I start noticing the lenders are asking me. What are the numbers? They don't even want to know about me. It's not even a factor. They're not saying, what's your credit? They're not saying, what do you have in the bank? They're not saying any of that at this point. They're saying, what are you buying it for? What's the renovation cost? And what are you selling it for? They wanted to know the numbers. And what they didn't want is me pleading and saying, oh, I promise I'm going to do a good job. What they wanted was to hear me confident. That's what they wanted. They wanted to know. I knew what I was saying. I was confident in myself. Then they would be confident in me. And then if they liked the numbers, the money was going to follow. So as I kept calling with these hundred calls, I stopped seeing it so much as a loss when they said no. Every single call just became a different learning opportunity. I didn't get mad. I stopped that. I put my pride and ego. And as anyone wants to be a real estate investor, you will learn very early that those are things you need to leave at the door. I'm good. If you screw up, you just screw up and on you go. You're not going to beat yourself up or you're going to stay in the same spot. So I put the pride aside. I put the ego and I just kept calling. And I noticed as I'm calling, as I'm getting to 150 calls, 175, I'm getting up there. And I noticed I was starting to speak the language. I noticed the calls were easier. They were just flowing better. We were having conversations. It wasn't just a hang up. And then on call 202, I finally got a yes from Anchor Loans.
Speaker #2
Wow. This is an amazing story that the phone calls practice, right? It's a rehearsal.
Speaker #0
Absolutely. Absolutely. And what's funny is that today, a lot of the lenders, they don't know. Actually, there's one lender that I work with all the time. And I'm like, you know, I called you for my first loan and you hung up on me. And, and cause we work together all the time now. And, but we laughed about that. I think I talked about that, like, gosh, like four or five years ago. And it's pretty funny, but they didn't know that. They talked to people constantly. So it's not like they're keeping a tab on who you are if you mess up the call. So, but I didn't, the first half I saw as failures. The second half I saw them as learning opportunities. And that's exactly what it was.
Speaker #2
Do you still talk to the very first lender that took a chance on you?
Speaker #0
I have, I talked to Shane. He was, he was the first lender probably 10 years ago. And we, he added me on LinkedIn And I was like, do you remember me? And I said, you get any, he didn't for a minute. And I was like, you gave me my first loan. It was on Lake shore, you know, in walks Hatchie. And he was like, I do. And so it was a nice little moment, but he's doing all commercial now. He's doing a completely different side of it. So, but it was nice to catch up and to see that. And, uh, you know, for him, not unless he's ever watched my Tik TOK and realizes the shit show that the first flip was, but he didn't know that while it was going on.
Speaker #2
So Shane changed your life.
Speaker #0
Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. And I made it a point, though, to not after I learned how to I learned the language after I learned how to speak with the lenders. I did not just keep my lender with Shane. I wanted to diversify that portfolio. I wanted to have other lenders. And once I knew how to speak and knew the numbers they were looking for and being within 70 percent, then I was starting to find other lenders and I was trying other lenders on to see who I like the best. And, you know, some are great, some are. dot every T cross every I and then you have some that are very lackadaisical where you're like, I need my draw. So, you know, I found my favorite lenders. I have a couple that now that I use regularly. And yeah, I just I absolutely I could not imagine doing this without a hard money lender because I talked to a lot of investors like, oh, hard money. And I'm like, are y'all crazy? You can't get a cell phone right now. And these people are willing if your numbers are good, they're going to hold that house as collateral, basically. And they're going to give you two Thank you. $400,000 when you don't have the ability to get a cell phone yet. That's who else is going to do that? Is your grandma, who else is going to help you? The bank's not, but you have these hard money lenders here saying, you know what? You can use my money to make your money. I mean, that's the best thing in the world.
Speaker #2
Yeah. And I don't know if you knew this, but we are hard money lenders.
Speaker #0
I do know. I do.
Speaker #2
Okay. So we like, I got a letter not that long ago, Jackie, from somebody that was probably similar position, not as young, but similar position as you were when you were getting started. where we took a chance on her and she did a flip and now she's a multimillionaire and she sent us a letter testimonial of that. And I got to tell you, going home that night after reading that letter, you just have this amazing sense of pride and like you're making a difference.
Speaker #0
Look, I don't know if you can see it. I have goosebumps.
Speaker #2
Gosh, that's amazing. But you probably get a lot of that too with your students, right? I mean, it just feels so good. And I want to talk about your book and. your students and how you're helping people. But you did mention something I can't just let go. There's 10 lessons that you learned on that first flip. So we got to fast forward here. We're not going to get through all of the details on your flip, but I do want to extract some nuggets of information if I can. So what are some of those 10 mistakes you made and what you learned from them?
Speaker #0
Oh gosh, probably more than 10. There's probably so many more than that. So first, like I said, I will tell you one of the first mistakes that I made. And I don't even know if I say this in the book, but I'll tell you. So when I got the house, the first thing I wanted to do was change the roof. It had that burnt orange color. And I did change it. The roof was maybe a year old. I changed the roof out of vanity. I was just like, don't like that color. Let's change it. Don't get so excited in the flip that you are changing things that you don't need to change. It was a brand new roof that there's, I shouldn't even touched it. So don't get overexcited. Don't try to HGTV it and be like, I got to change everything because no, don't even watch HDB. It's so not true. It's so wrong. I can't even watch it. So don't get overly excited and change things that you don't need to don't over flip the flip. So that's one, another one. Like I said, I went for the... cheaper route of my contractors, which I'll never use a GC. I GC my projects myself. But to hire all of the trades separately, I know it sounds like a hassle. It is worth it. Because if you fire a GC, guess what? Everybody that's with him is going with him. And you're not going to be able to afford a GC usually as a flipper anyway. But I hired one guy, one guy to do the whole flip, just one. He didn't have a helper. He didn't have anything. I was trying to save as much money as I could. And I went to the bottom of the barrel on pricing. And that was not a smart move. I could have spent a couple thousand dollars more and had no problems with the flip. So don't just hire one guy. Now, I'll tell you, I have a crew that has, you know, sometimes they have two, sometimes they have three and that's totally fine. But one guy, that's a problem. So don't do that. Another one, do not go to Home Depot and buy the material until it is time for the material. Because when it gets stolen, It is painful. It is extraordinarily painful because then I had to call my mom and say, mom, can I please borrow a little bit of money to get the rest of this material? Because I have screwed the pooch on this one. So then another one after the contractor ran off that stole all of my stuff, which I will tell you, I got some of it back because at 21, I was pretty gangster. Okay. I'm just letting you know, 22, I was still pretty gangster. So I did go get some of it back. Let me let you know that right now. I am not the one. I'm happy. But I am scrappy, okay? So now I should say, though, that I had my stepdad with me and my boyfriend at the time. They're both 6'2 to 6'4. So I did, you know, look pretty cool. So don't hire one guy. Next, after that happened, you start getting kind of desperate because you start meeting contractors and time is ticking and there's so much pressure. So I was meeting contractors and I was paying them a couple hundred bucks up front, you know, $500 here. And they were running off with the money. I will not give... Any contractor's money up front except one. I will give my electrician money for wire up front and he is the only one. Everyone else, they get paid on Fridays. That's it. I don't, if now, if I know them and we have a very good relationship established, that's different. But if it's a contractor I don't know, you have to prove yourself. And if the contractor is going to give you a very hard time with that, tell him, you know what, I'll pay you after your first day of work. But I need to see what you're doing and that you're not running off with my money. Like that, it's that simple. And also don't hire contractors that you think might be drinking or doing drugs, because if you think that they will be on your job site and that's not fun to deal with. And
Speaker #2
I've had that happen. They're getting drunk and then they move in.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #2
And then your project never gets done.
Speaker #0
It's a mess. And I will also say this. Don't don't be afraid to attempt to DIY a few things when you run out of money. I had to you know, scrape up some laminate hardwood or laminate vinyl flooring up myself. And, and that wasn't fun, but you have to be somewhat prepared to do some of those little things every now and then. But I would say the biggest lesson that I learned on this flip, and it is just probably one of the biggest lessons I've learned as a real estate investor, because after the first flip, I practically broke even. I didn't fully break even. I did make enough to give my brother the $600 back that I borrowed from him and the little bit that I borrowed from my mom. And after that, I really had no money. I mean, I had no money left. And I remember calling my brother, and I was just, I was so angry. And I was like, you know, you need to come and get the $600, because there wasn't Zelle or anything like that then. So he comes over, he meets me, and I'm telling him, I'm like, you know what? I could have made money if these guys wouldn't have screwed me over, if this guy wasn't drinking, if this guy hadn't stole my material, if this guy hadn't of, you know. Hired me hired one guy all of these things. It was everybody else's fault except my own and I told my brother that And my brother, Scotty, is one of the smartest entrepreneurs I've ever known. He was able to buy and pay for a car at 15. He's all hustle and only kid I know driving to junior high. So I told him, I said, you know, I'm done with this. I'm not going to flip a house again. Why would I do this? I made no money. I put everything into it and it was a mess. And he just looked me dead in the eye and he was like, Jackie, if you want to be an entrepreneur, you're going to have to learn something about accountability. You're the one that said you could flip it. You're the one that got everybody together. You said you could do it. We all tried to help you. If this ship went down, you were the captain and that was your fault. And first off, ow, I wasn't prepared to hear that. But he told me, he said, accountability is the number one thing you have to learn. And I thought about it and it really resonated with me. And I thought, you know what? If I wouldn't have hired that one guy. and I would have hired a crew, I probably could have made some money. If I wouldn't have bought all the material at one time and did it in stages, I wouldn't have lost it. If I wouldn't have paid, I started, as much as I didn't like it, I could see where it was my fault. I saw what I could have done better. And, you know, if I wouldn't have paid the guy up front, I wouldn't have lost the money. So as much as, I didn't want to admit it to my brother, but I did, I could see past the mistakes. The smoke was clearing up. I could see the path to success ahead. And because I told him, I was like, I'm not flipping a house again. But it was at that moment I said, you know what? I don't know how to flip a house yet, but I sure as hell learned how not to flip a house. So let's go ahead and try it for the second time. And then the second time I made about $15,000. And then the third flip, I made over $100,000. So it went really, really well. And but, you know, it's that moment. It's that moment of when you're crying and you think this is the worst thing in the world. and you are ready to walk away. It's saying I'm going to be disciplined enough to keep going. I'm going to be committed enough to myself and trust myself that I have learned this and I can do better. And it's basically just not giving up when at the moment you feel like this is the time to give up. Because we all have that moment. We have moments where you wake up at four in the morning and you're like, oh my God, I just bought six houses at once. Did I really check those numbers the right way? Did I, you know, and you question yourself, but It's not giving up.
Speaker #1
It's not. It is just staying committed and having the discipline to keep going forward with it. consistency, and security to your portfolio. If you like real estate but want to avoid the ups and downs and effort, a Pine Mortgage Fund could be a perfect fit for you. Accredited investors will experience an 8% preferred return and profit sharing. Diversify your portfolio out of Wall Street and into Main Street with a Pine Financial Group Fund. To get more information at pinefinancialgroup.com. That's pinefinancialgroup.com. You said something that I really, really like there, the accountability piece. So many times we don't take responsibility for our own decisions and our own actions. And I think there's a reason highly successful people, Jackie, have coaches or accountability partners or accountability groups like mastermind groups. And it's sometimes difficult to hold yourself accountable. But if you have someone else that you're going to let down, that tends to stick a little bit better. It makes it a little bit easier. to do the thing you're afraid of because you don't want to let somebody else down, right?
Speaker #0
And I think the moment you learn that, the moment that you learn accountability without having to have your hand handheld, it changes everything for you in business because now you realize, okay, I'm not in the passenger seat, right? If I say it's everybody else's fault, I have no control over it. But the moment you say, like, it gets to the point to where you're so accountable that you're taking accountability for everything when sometimes it might not in fact be you, but you're like, no, I can find a way we're going to fix all of this. So when you can learn that accountability and the biggest thing is taking, like I said before, your pride and your ego and saying, I'm just going to, I'm just going to leave that home because it just can't be here. But the best part about it is the accountability. Because once you own that accountability, you're in the driver's seat. You can change it. Everything is now up to you and it's in your control. But if you want to say, it's not my fault, you're not going to grow. You're not going to change. You're not going to. you're not going to stay successful, even if you've had some success.
Speaker #1
Yeah, I agree. That's one of my core values. So you say without a handholding, I tend to, I might disagree with you a little bit there. I think handholding is okay. And I think having some support is essential to your success. And so you've created that with your coaching. And I'm sure part of that is holding your students accountable so that they do experience the results they're going for. I don't know that,
Speaker #0
but I'm assuming that. I'm I'm I'm fairly stubborn. So, but that is one of the biggest parts of when people message me or they want me to coach them and they want me to teach them. It's the accountability. And it's saying, you know, it is, if you screwed up, you screwed up. So what? Let it go. We're just going to keep on going and we're going to fix it. You know,
Speaker #1
you go out there and make that offer. Yeah.
Speaker #0
Just keep going and keep trying. And the other thing I think is, you know, when I am coaching, the biggest thing people have a problem with is thinking they have to be just fully ready until they start. And I was like, look, you're never going to be ready. There's never a point. I've done this for 22 years and I still I still screw things up. I still learn new things all the time. I'm not, you know, you can't be as obtuse to say, no, I know it all, or I want to know it all. Just be willing and open to learn every day because I mess things up all the time. It still happens, but I try to minimize it as much as I can.
Speaker #1
All right. So quickly tell us about your book and the coaching program.
Speaker #0
Oh yeah. So the book, the book is a really fun book. It's not a novel. It's basically 26. chapters of the biggest mistakes that I made. So you can laugh at me. You can make fun of me. It's fantastic. I laugh at myself about it all the time now, but really it's ultimately, it's called how not to flip a house because who cares about the success stories, right? We don't care if someone's successful. We want to know what it took to get there. Nobody wants the pictures from the top of the mountain. We want to know what it took to get up there. So that's kind of always been my thinking. Cause when I speak with people that are successful, I'm like, good, you've made a million dollars. I don't care about that. What did it? take. I want to know what the hard things were. So that's kind of what the book is about. It's about the mistakes, the biggest, what I consider the biggest mistakes that I made. So hopefully if you're reading it, you can say, okay, I'm not going to do that. Don't let's, let's avoid that at all costs because that happened to Jackie and we're going to learn vicariously. So we don't do that. So it's a real fun book. It's some of it's, you know, mindset related, some of it's flipping related, some of it's landlord related. Um, there's some emotional, you know, sections in it. And then there's a lot of things about integrity and having a good moral compass and operating a certain way. But it's also the dumb mistakes I've made, like not changing the locks, contractors having keys and stealing all of my Viking appliances out of a million dollar house. So, and then you have to put them back in there.
Speaker #1
Made that one too. Yep. That's, it's much better to learn from your book than experience. Yeah.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
Um, is it on audible?
Speaker #0
It is not on Audible, but if you purchase a digital copy, you get a downloadable audio version of it. So you can keep it in whatever you use.
Speaker #1
So is it listed on Amazon, the paperback? No,
Speaker #0
it's just on my website. I have it directly on my website. And a lot of people have asked me why I haven't put it on Amazon yet. And I said they're going to mark it up. I don't want them to mark it up. Everything that I do, I try to do with the new investor. mindset. And I know if things are too expensive when I was starting out, I wouldn't have been able to get them. So even my course, you know, I have that at cost, even when my attorney's like, that needs to be a $5,000, $10,000 course. And I said, I'd rather die 8,000 deaths than to make it that expensive. Otherwise new people are not going to get a chance to start. So I said, nope, we're putting it down as low as we can. And I'm leaving it there and I will leave it there forever. That's, that's not the honey on my biscuit. I make my money, most of my money. buy flipping houses in my rentals. So everything else I just try to do as cost effective as possible.
Speaker #1
Okay. And another advantage for the listeners benefit here, if you sell your book off of your own website, you get to capture the email address and then you get to keep that. And then that's how you build your database. I sell all of my books that I've written on Amazon because I'm trying to get it into as many hands as possible to help market the business. But I don't get to see who's buying it. So that's the disadvantage. So there's advantage and disadvantages to both routes. Yeah.
Speaker #0
And every person that buys mine, I send, if they buy a book, I will sign it. I write them a note. I talk, you know, I give them very personalized information to them. Some days it takes a lot of time, but it is absolutely worth it. And then I give them my information so they can find me online, find me on socials. They can DM me if they get stuck. So I try to be as accessible as possible within reason.
Speaker #1
This is awesome. All right. We are up against it here, Jackie. So I'm going to go through my notes. Every episode, I like to go just read my notes back to you, what I learned from this episode. And then you could just fill in any gaps that you would like to fill in. And then I would love one final piece of advice for maybe a newer real estate investor. And then obviously, we get all your contact information. Okay. So we started talking about your story and how you were so young. But what really stuck with me, Jackie, is the story about being in that car when that light came on. Um, that was pretty moving, I will say. Um, but you did say something right before that you got into real estate because you started listening more than speaking and you started listening to smart people smarter than you and they were making money and that's how you got in. So that was, that was a great message there. Um, we talked about the fear of being in the same position in one year and how that should drive you forward to get past the fear that's stopping you from doing the action that you need to do right now. Hard money lenders want to know the numbers. So make sure you understand the numbers before you start making your calls. Pride and ego, leave them at the door. Don't change what is not broken. So you changed the roof when you didn't need to. So do not overflip your properties. HDTV is not true. Don't believe it. There is some entertainment value though, for sure. Cheap contractors don't hire them. Try to hire subcontractors that specialize in their area. I'm dealing with that on a project that I took over. right now. We had a handyman install AC units and it didn't go right. So that, I love that one too. Strategic material purchase is what I wrote down. So I wrote that down because you don't want to buy all your material upfront. Be very strategic about this. Sometimes for the listeners benefit here, sometimes you got to order stuff right out of the gate. Like your cabinets, you want to get those on order as soon as you close on the house, because it takes a little while to get those in. So be very strategic with your material purchase. Never give money upfront. And one thing I want to add to that is If the contractor is asking you for that, which will happen a hundred times out of a hundred, tell them because they want to buy material, right? That's what they tell you. Absolutely. I would say, well, why don't you let me buy the material? Go to Home Depot, get all the stuff, go to the desk. They'll call me and use my credit card. That way you're making sure the money is going in the material and you're getting the credit card points. So that would be- And you know what they're buying. You know exactly what they're buying. So that's how I would handle that. Don't hire drinkers or druggies and- Take responsibility. You are responsible for your own success. And that was, we did drive that home. So hopefully the listener heard that message, but how do I do on my notes?
Speaker #0
Oh, you did fantastic. That is right on point. And exactly what you said about Home Depot. I tell everyone I will buy the material. You do call them, call me, do a phone sale, and we've got it. So then there's no excuses because they will try. And I will also add one more thing. If they are buying material on your money, always, always, you need to have a pro account where it emails you the list of material and you can make sure no one is buying tools or buying excess material that they're going to take back and get refunded. I watch for that regularly.
Speaker #1
Oh, a hundred percent. They always buy tools. They always buy their waters and their snacks because they're right by their cash register at Home Depot.
Speaker #0
I highlight it and I deduct it from their check.
Speaker #1
Yep. That's fantastic. Good advice. All right. I don't know if that was your final piece of advice, but do you want to have one final piece of advice for a newer investor?
Speaker #0
Actually, I do. And it's something we haven't spoke about yet, but I want to talk about the holding of the property when you're going to flip it. This is something that I teach regularly. So Let's say you're doing a flip and you know right now the ARV is 300,000. Now for me personally, and there might be some difference of opinions, if I know things are a little bit slower, or not even if they're slower, but if there's a couple other houses on that street, I'm going to be lower than them. I'm going to be about 10% to 5% lower than whatever they are. That way, and I'm going to make sure my grass is as green as can be. The door looks very nice. I mean, I have even golf course painted some of my grass. to make sure my house was the nicest. But make sure it is as nice as you can and do not be so rigid to say, my house is worth $300,000, so I am selling it for $300,000 and that's it and I am not budging. You will lose so much saying it's worth $300,000. I'm selling it for $300,000. If you get an offer for $280,000 and it still works and you're still making $65,000, take it. Don't sit on it so long because Those there's holding costs involved with that. And every month it's going to add up and it's going to be on market more. And then people are going to say, why has it been on the market for so long? Do not be afraid to drop it. Know your number, be a little bit cheaper than everybody else. And do not be so set on the number that you're not willing to sell it and you're going to lose money on it.
Speaker #1
That's fantastic. We could do a whole episode on price strategy because there's a lot to unwrap there. And we've talked about it on this show before, like sometimes pricing it lower than you're going to get and having it bid up. It's scary, but sometimes it's an effective strategy.
Speaker #0
Oh, it's absolutely doable. If I can get into a bidding war, so be it.
Speaker #1
It's exactly right. I agree. Cool. How do we get ahold of you?
Speaker #0
So you can get ahold of me. My main platform is TikTok, but my, on my socials, my handle on everything. If you want to go to my website, TikTok, Facebook, Instagram, it's Jackie, the happy investor all the way around. Everything is Jackie, the happy investor. So, but my main platform is TikTok. everyone messaged me on TikTok when they get questions, I answer about three to 400 a day. That's what I do at the end of the day. I don't know what y'all do, but I answer TikTok messages. I can't take a day off because then it doubles. So, but if you want to, I get to them as fast as I can. You can also leave comments on the videos and I do, you know, comments. But my website, if you want to skip the line and hit the contact me page on my website, those get answered really, really fast because no one really ever uses that. So that's a little tip if you really want to get ahold of me. But the website's JackieTheHappyInvestor.com. You can find my book. You can find my course. I'm going to do a July 4th sale for the course if you want it. If you don't, don't get it. It won't hurt my feelings. You can come on TikTok and I'm still going to give you all the goods on there. It's just the course is in order and you get all my documents.
Speaker #1
That's awesome. Okay. So JackieTheHappyInvestor, that's J-A-C-K-I-E, The Happy Investor. Thank you so much for being on the show. I know you're super busy, especially with now that I learned how many. messages you respond to every night. I wonder if there's an AI somehow that can help you with that.
Speaker #0
But there is, but I can't do it. It's got to be me. I've got to talk to people directly. Otherwise, the moment I think something's a bot, I'm like, I'm not your friend anymore. I'm not talking to you.
Speaker #1
So just a simple, the ones that you just say, thanks. And maybe, I don't know, but anyway,
Speaker #0
I could get that one.
Speaker #1
I know you're busy. Thank you so much for joining us on the show.
Speaker #0
Yes. Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker #1
For the listener, you have other podcasts you could be listening to, and you chose the Real Estate Educators podcast. And for that, I am so incredibly grateful. If you got value like I did,
Speaker #0
please five-star review, share it with a friend, and I hope you make this day a great one.
Speaker #1
I really hope you enjoyed this episode as much as I did. If you did, please be sure to follow and leave a five-star review. Oh, yeah, and tell a friend.

Description

Jackie Coffey's first house flip went about as badly as a flip could go.

But she didn't quit.

TIMESTAMPS

Connect with Jackie Coffey

Find Jackie across TikTok, Facebook, and Instagram as Jackie The Happy Investor.

Visit JackieTheHappyInvestor.com to learn more about Jackie's book, How Not to Flip a House, her real estate investing course, and additional resources for investors.

Learn more about Pine Financial Group at pinefinancialgroup.com

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Transcription

Speaker #0
On top of being in just poverty and having no money, I had three jobs. Nothing was working, so I was like, I've got to find something. I've got to do something. And while I am not smarter than the average bear, I would listen to the smarter people around me, and they were always talking about real estate. I have to stop talking. I know that sounds odd for calling, but I was like, I have to stop talking. I'm getting very excited because I am a pressure speaker. So the more excited I get, the faster I talk and the louder I get. I've gone to speech therapy for when I was little. It's just the way I am and I've accepted it. So I told myself, I have to stop talking. I need to listen to what they're saying and what they're not saying. But, you know, it's that moment. It's that moment of when you're crying and you think this is the worst thing in the world and you are ready to walk away. It's saying, I'm going to be disciplined enough to keep going. I'm going to be committed enough to myself and trust myself that I have learned this and I can do better. And it's basically just not giving up when at the moment you feel like this is the time to give up.
Speaker #1
We were in negotiations, investing in real estate. They're winning, they're making money.
Speaker #2
What's up, everyone? Welcome to the Real Estate Educators Podcast, where we provide the education you can build on. I am your host, Kevin Amos. We are back. We're having so much fun with this podcast. We're helping real estate investors and real estate educators. Are you out there building a portfolio or fixing and flipping? Or are you out there educating other investors. is the podcast for you. I am really excited about this episode, you guys. We have Jackie Coffey with us today. We're going to talk about fixing and flipping. She is the happy investor with over 1,000 transactions done. And it sounds like you've helped over 1,000 students with their transactions as well. So I'm super excited to have you. Welcome to the show.
Speaker #0
Thank you so much. And yes, yes, I've been doing it now for 22 years. It's been a hot minute. So you get a couple under your belt after doing it that long.
Speaker #2
That's amazing. So you and I have been in about the same amount of time and we got started at about the same age. So we have that in common. I could tell you I've since I've been through a couple of cycles now, I've also learned a lot. And I bet you I'm going to learn something from you here today. So take me back. Twenty one years old, Jackie.
Speaker #0
Oh, twenty twenty one year old Jackie. Let me tell you, I just had this blissfully ignorant mindset thinking, you know what? I saw someone flipping a house. I bet I could flip a house. They could do it. I can do it. Easy, right? So I thought, let's do this. You know, but the hard part was in 2004, there wasn't social media. There wasn't TikTok or YouTube. Well, there was YouTube, but it was like cats with the flying toasters situation. So I just had to march my happy little self down to the library and start researching real estate, researching real estate loans and mortgages and finding out what everything means. That's how I really got started. And that's when I found that there was something called a hard money loan. So I was like, I was reading it. It says, you don't have to have any cash and you don't have to have any credit. And I was like, oh my God, that's great. I have neither of those. So this is perfect for me. So I start looking for a house and I found one that I loved and I start calling lenders. And let me tell you, it sounds easy in theory when you're like, I've got this. But then I start calling lenders and eventually... I got a yes, but it took me 202 phone calls of calling and getting hung up on and told no. And you don't know what you're doing, kid, until I finally got a yes. But and then I thought, oh, man, I got the yes. Hard part's over. This is it. This is a cakewalk now. And then I get into my first flip having just being as green as the grass outside, not knowing what the hell I'm doing. And thought, you know, this this is this is the worst shit show that you could ever possibly have. I messed up my. first flip so badly. And I was after the first flip, which let me, let me back up a little bit. It, everything that could go wrong in this first flip went wrong. I mean, everything. I hired one guy to do the whole flip, not even one guy with a helper, one guy. And I'm talking to do the roof, the sod, the painting, the plumbing, you name it. So we're going at a snail's pace. Then I am paying contractors up front. They're running off with my money. I go to Home Depot, I get a draw, and I think, oh my gosh, I'm the coolest person in the world, right? I just got, you know, thousands of dollars. So I walk into Home Depot like the boss I think I am, which I'm so not, and I buy everything that I need. I bought all the shingles, the sod, countertops, appliances, trims, everything. Had it delivered right in the middle of the flip. Didn't even dawn on me this could be in the way of the flip. No, no, no, I just had it all set down in the living room. I go back the next Monday to see how my contractor's doing.
Speaker #2
You put the sod in the living room?
Speaker #0
No, that was on the front porch. That was outside. So I go back Monday because I want to see the progress this made. I walk in the house and I'm like, oh good, everything is gone and it's put up. And I'm looking around and I'm like, the baseboards aren't in. The appliances are not in. Everything got stolen by the one contractor that I hired. So it's just, and it's just getting worse and worse. I'm hiring guys. They're doing drugs on the job side or someone's sleeping, someone's drinking. So it was not the best flip, but it was one for the books because it's where I learned every single lesson or at least the first 10 good ones.
Speaker #2
Okay. I want to get into these lessons here. This is fantastic. So I want to take me back before that first flip, Jackie, what made you get, what excited you about real estate at that young age?
Speaker #0
Well, now there's a few factors. One, I was drawn towards it, but I didn't really know why. I had no idea. And that's something I didn't find out till, you know, I was in my late 30s. And I was like, oh, wow. But for me, I'm very competitive. I and I could see someone doing a flip and I didn't like the way they were doing it. Not that I'm just and I'm watching them for the, you know, these days that they're doing it. I'm just I'm just critiquing it terribly. I'm like, look at that ugly color. Look at that door is so ugly. Right. I have no idea what they're going through. But I'm like, I could do that. I bet I could do that better. So On top of being in just poverty and having no money, I had three jobs, nothing was working. So I was like, I've got to find something. I've got to do something. And while I am not smarter than the average bear, I would listen to the smarter people around me. And they were always talking about real estate. They were always saying, oh, if you want to retire without having to rely on the government, get into real estate, or the 1% has real estate. So even though I didn't know anything about it, I just, like I said, in that blissfully ignorant mindset, I was like, well, they they're smart. They're saying something about it. I see someone doing it. Maybe I could do it better. So that's what initially put me that way. And then, of course, just being so tired of not having money. But there was a moment because I talked myself into it. I knew I wanted to flip a house and I was driving and I had my my brand new little baby girl Bella in the backseat. She was brand new. And I stopped at a stoplight and I'll never forget this moment. This is, it sticks with me. It will always stick with me. And I, like I said, I had three jobs and I'm at the stoplight and I see the check oil light come on and my heart just sank. I was like, oh my God, I don't even have money for extra food. You know, it was such a struggle then you're 21, you're starting. I had a little girl and I just remember thinking, how am I going to ever do that? How am I going? to get enough money for that. You know, I mean, okay, I can do it if I don't eat this week, you know? And so there was a moment and I'm sitting at that stoplight and this all happens in just a matter of seconds as these thoughts come in. And I was like, okay, I just, I told myself I was going to flip a house. I'm just going to do it because I can't live like this forever. I can't. And then I start getting excited about it. I'm like, you know what? I'll flip a house and I'll, I'll pay the contractors. I'll give them one of those little rippy checks out of the checkbook and I'll be the boss. You're fantasizing about it. It'll be so cool and it'll be so fun. But then immediately, as soon as I started giving myself permission to do it, was just as fast as I took myself back down. And I was like, what are you doing? You can't do that. You don't know anything about real estate. You don't know anything about anything. You had to go to the library just to start looking up these terms. What are you doing? And then I thought, everyone's going to call me flaky if I start and I don't finish. And I was very worried about being judged by people. So I thought, you know what, I'm not going to do it. I'm not going to flip a house because I don't want to deal with that. And it was at that very next second when I had that fear kind of come over me of, you know, people looking down on me if I don't do good. I thought, oh my God, I'm so scared of that. But what if I am in the same position that I'm in right now a year from now? Same three jobs, same car, oil lights coming on, it's not working, and nothing has changed. So that fear of standing still was really the push. I was more afraid of being in the same spot with no money and not progressing than I was for people to make fun of me. So that was the turning point of saying, you know what? Screw what everybody thinks. I'm not going to know what they really think anyway. I'm going to take a chance on myself and I'm going to do it.
Speaker #2
That's amazing. I talk about this sometimes and you said it so well. Fear is crippling and people have trouble. getting started in real estate, as you know, with all the students you've helped because of fear. But it's also scary to be in the same place you are in a year or five years from now. And I ask, I ask people all the time, what's scarier? And for you, it was more scary to have three jobs in a year than to go out and do that. Yeah, it was terrifying.
Speaker #0
I just, you know, not when it's, when it's that part of your life and you're saying, okay, is it going to be the internet or is it going to be, you know, the gas bill or what is it? And I just didn't. And here's the thing. I didn't get into this thinking, oh, man, I want to be super wealthy and have some pie in the sky. I just wanted to know that I could change my oil without having to miss a meal. That that's what I wanted. I wasn't trying to, of course we all need money and we want money. There's nothing wrong with that because, but money to me is very, very different. You know, it was about the more money I make, the more time I have, the more freedom I have, the more I can live life on my terms. So that was really what it was about. It wasn't about, oh, I need to go get a purse or something. Not that there's anything wrong with any of the ladies listening that want to buy a purse. That's, Hey, that's your prerogative. My priorities were just very different and still are.
Speaker #2
So you didn't get into it to build wealth, but I suspect over the last 22 years, you have done that.
Speaker #0
Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. And it's and that's but like I said, it's the factor was I want to live a life with dignity. I want to live on my terms. I don't want a nine to five to where I have to ask permission to go to the restroom. I don't want to do that. I want to build this. And then when it got to a point that I built it, well, built it well enough. I said, you know, I didn't have anyone to help me. I take it back. I don't want to lie to you. That was part of it. But really, I got into a car wreck and I couldn't walk, which I'm totally fine now. My feet are great. But I broke one of my I got a I broke one of my feet. I broke my foot. And so I was kind of stuck, which I'm never standing still. So it was at that moment I was like, you know what? Let's go on TikTok while I'm sitting here and give some pointers and help some people and just give some advice. on what has worked for me and maybe it could work for them or maybe they can take what I've done and make it even better. So that's how I started teaching and helping other people.
Speaker #2
Okay. And I definitely want to try to get into that if we have time. But I want to go back to that first deal because there's so many lessons that our listeners can learn from you in that one deal. So if we could kind of go through the process here a little bit, I know you were motivated. You wanted to change your oil and fix your car and those things. And you decided to get into real estate and do a fix and flip. So what did you do to find that very first deal?
Speaker #0
So the first flip, my very first flip, I got with a realtor and I just said, send me everything that's under 200,000 in my area. And at that time, 200,000, 2004, that was huge. That was a huge number. You know, most of the houses I bought then were 60,000, 20,000, 40,000. I live in a small town, old area. So I got with a realtor and I just had them continue to send me properties. I would drive, I would look at them. I mean, and there's days I would look at eight, nine properties in a day. And then I found one that I thought had pretty good margins. Hold on, let me, the profit was going to be about $15,000. That's what I thought was good margins at the time. And hey, I'm not knocking 15, but we know you can easily go over budget and eat that in two seconds. So, but at the time 15 was like, wow. So I found, I just kept looking. I found the house that I thought had good numbers. And that's the one that I got.
Speaker #2
And you just started cold calling out of the newspaper, probably. Cause I don't know that. Well, I found an internet back then. Was there, I mean, where did you find hard money lenders?
Speaker #0
I got, I got the yellow pages. That was the first thing I did. And I don't, I know some people don't know what those are, but it is a book that has everyone's name, number, and address. You can just find out where people lived. It was totally fine. And, uh, So I start calling different mortgage companies. I started calling banks and I'm looking for hard money lenders. And it is a little bit more difficult to find them. So I get all of these numbers from phone books. I call and I'm about a hundred calls in. And I have talked to some hard money lenders, some normal lenders. And everyone's just like, you know, your kid, you don't know what you're talking about. You're brand new. And for me, it did get very discouraging to keep getting the nose. And there was a... point when I was about a hundred calls in that I was like, I'm so done with this. This isn't working. I'm I'm I just, I can't do it. I've got a hundred no's, you know, most people might quit after 10 or 50 here. My stubborn self is saying, no, no, no, let's keep going. So I have this complete conniption fit after about, you know, call a hundred through all my papers. I'm mad. I'm, you know, crying out of frustration. I'm like, this isn't working.
Speaker #2
I don't know why I could picture this. I could, I could picture you like throwing the phone book.
Speaker #0
Absolutely. So then I go to the internet. And while there's not a lot of internet there is, I start typing in hard money lenders. I'm getting desperate. And to my surprise, I start finding some. I start finding some in listings. And so I print all those out, not just my state. Nationwide, I printed out as many as I could. And I start calling. But there was a point in this that I stopped. And I was like, okay, I have to stop talking. I know that sounds odd for calling, but I was like, I have to stop talking. I'm getting very excited because I am a pressure speaker. So the more excited I get, the faster I talk and the louder I get. I've gone to speech therapy for when I was little. It's just the way I am and I've accepted it. So I told myself, I have to stop talking. I need to listen to what they're saying and what they're not saying. If I slow down just a little bit and I listen to these keywords because I was calling them saying, hey, I'm Jackie Brown. That was my main name. I'm Jackie Brown and I'm as green as a grass outside. I don't know what the hell I'm doing. I got a house. I think I can flip it. I promise I'm going to do, I'm going to try real hard and I'm not going to mess up your money. And I sound like, like I am just as green as a grass outside. And I start realizing I don't need to say all of that. And as I am going, I start noticing the lenders are asking me. What are the numbers? They don't even want to know about me. It's not even a factor. They're not saying, what's your credit? They're not saying, what do you have in the bank? They're not saying any of that at this point. They're saying, what are you buying it for? What's the renovation cost? And what are you selling it for? They wanted to know the numbers. And what they didn't want is me pleading and saying, oh, I promise I'm going to do a good job. What they wanted was to hear me confident. That's what they wanted. They wanted to know. I knew what I was saying. I was confident in myself. Then they would be confident in me. And then if they liked the numbers, the money was going to follow. So as I kept calling with these hundred calls, I stopped seeing it so much as a loss when they said no. Every single call just became a different learning opportunity. I didn't get mad. I stopped that. I put my pride and ego. And as anyone wants to be a real estate investor, you will learn very early that those are things you need to leave at the door. I'm good. If you screw up, you just screw up and on you go. You're not going to beat yourself up or you're going to stay in the same spot. So I put the pride aside. I put the ego and I just kept calling. And I noticed as I'm calling, as I'm getting to 150 calls, 175, I'm getting up there. And I noticed I was starting to speak the language. I noticed the calls were easier. They were just flowing better. We were having conversations. It wasn't just a hang up. And then on call 202, I finally got a yes from Anchor Loans.
Speaker #2
Wow. This is an amazing story that the phone calls practice, right? It's a rehearsal.
Speaker #0
Absolutely. Absolutely. And what's funny is that today, a lot of the lenders, they don't know. Actually, there's one lender that I work with all the time. And I'm like, you know, I called you for my first loan and you hung up on me. And, and cause we work together all the time now. And, but we laughed about that. I think I talked about that, like, gosh, like four or five years ago. And it's pretty funny, but they didn't know that. They talked to people constantly. So it's not like they're keeping a tab on who you are if you mess up the call. So, but I didn't, the first half I saw as failures. The second half I saw them as learning opportunities. And that's exactly what it was.
Speaker #2
Do you still talk to the very first lender that took a chance on you?
Speaker #0
I have, I talked to Shane. He was, he was the first lender probably 10 years ago. And we, he added me on LinkedIn And I was like, do you remember me? And I said, you get any, he didn't for a minute. And I was like, you gave me my first loan. It was on Lake shore, you know, in walks Hatchie. And he was like, I do. And so it was a nice little moment, but he's doing all commercial now. He's doing a completely different side of it. So, but it was nice to catch up and to see that. And, uh, you know, for him, not unless he's ever watched my Tik TOK and realizes the shit show that the first flip was, but he didn't know that while it was going on.
Speaker #2
So Shane changed your life.
Speaker #0
Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. And I made it a point, though, to not after I learned how to I learned the language after I learned how to speak with the lenders. I did not just keep my lender with Shane. I wanted to diversify that portfolio. I wanted to have other lenders. And once I knew how to speak and knew the numbers they were looking for and being within 70 percent, then I was starting to find other lenders and I was trying other lenders on to see who I like the best. And, you know, some are great, some are. dot every T cross every I and then you have some that are very lackadaisical where you're like, I need my draw. So, you know, I found my favorite lenders. I have a couple that now that I use regularly. And yeah, I just I absolutely I could not imagine doing this without a hard money lender because I talked to a lot of investors like, oh, hard money. And I'm like, are y'all crazy? You can't get a cell phone right now. And these people are willing if your numbers are good, they're going to hold that house as collateral, basically. And they're going to give you two Thank you. $400,000 when you don't have the ability to get a cell phone yet. That's who else is going to do that? Is your grandma, who else is going to help you? The bank's not, but you have these hard money lenders here saying, you know what? You can use my money to make your money. I mean, that's the best thing in the world.
Speaker #2
Yeah. And I don't know if you knew this, but we are hard money lenders.
Speaker #0
I do know. I do.
Speaker #2
Okay. So we like, I got a letter not that long ago, Jackie, from somebody that was probably similar position, not as young, but similar position as you were when you were getting started. where we took a chance on her and she did a flip and now she's a multimillionaire and she sent us a letter testimonial of that. And I got to tell you, going home that night after reading that letter, you just have this amazing sense of pride and like you're making a difference.
Speaker #0
Look, I don't know if you can see it. I have goosebumps.
Speaker #2
Gosh, that's amazing. But you probably get a lot of that too with your students, right? I mean, it just feels so good. And I want to talk about your book and. your students and how you're helping people. But you did mention something I can't just let go. There's 10 lessons that you learned on that first flip. So we got to fast forward here. We're not going to get through all of the details on your flip, but I do want to extract some nuggets of information if I can. So what are some of those 10 mistakes you made and what you learned from them?
Speaker #0
Oh gosh, probably more than 10. There's probably so many more than that. So first, like I said, I will tell you one of the first mistakes that I made. And I don't even know if I say this in the book, but I'll tell you. So when I got the house, the first thing I wanted to do was change the roof. It had that burnt orange color. And I did change it. The roof was maybe a year old. I changed the roof out of vanity. I was just like, don't like that color. Let's change it. Don't get so excited in the flip that you are changing things that you don't need to change. It was a brand new roof that there's, I shouldn't even touched it. So don't get overexcited. Don't try to HGTV it and be like, I got to change everything because no, don't even watch HDB. It's so not true. It's so wrong. I can't even watch it. So don't get overly excited and change things that you don't need to don't over flip the flip. So that's one, another one. Like I said, I went for the... cheaper route of my contractors, which I'll never use a GC. I GC my projects myself. But to hire all of the trades separately, I know it sounds like a hassle. It is worth it. Because if you fire a GC, guess what? Everybody that's with him is going with him. And you're not going to be able to afford a GC usually as a flipper anyway. But I hired one guy, one guy to do the whole flip, just one. He didn't have a helper. He didn't have anything. I was trying to save as much money as I could. And I went to the bottom of the barrel on pricing. And that was not a smart move. I could have spent a couple thousand dollars more and had no problems with the flip. So don't just hire one guy. Now, I'll tell you, I have a crew that has, you know, sometimes they have two, sometimes they have three and that's totally fine. But one guy, that's a problem. So don't do that. Another one, do not go to Home Depot and buy the material until it is time for the material. Because when it gets stolen, It is painful. It is extraordinarily painful because then I had to call my mom and say, mom, can I please borrow a little bit of money to get the rest of this material? Because I have screwed the pooch on this one. So then another one after the contractor ran off that stole all of my stuff, which I will tell you, I got some of it back because at 21, I was pretty gangster. Okay. I'm just letting you know, 22, I was still pretty gangster. So I did go get some of it back. Let me let you know that right now. I am not the one. I'm happy. But I am scrappy, okay? So now I should say, though, that I had my stepdad with me and my boyfriend at the time. They're both 6'2 to 6'4. So I did, you know, look pretty cool. So don't hire one guy. Next, after that happened, you start getting kind of desperate because you start meeting contractors and time is ticking and there's so much pressure. So I was meeting contractors and I was paying them a couple hundred bucks up front, you know, $500 here. And they were running off with the money. I will not give... Any contractor's money up front except one. I will give my electrician money for wire up front and he is the only one. Everyone else, they get paid on Fridays. That's it. I don't, if now, if I know them and we have a very good relationship established, that's different. But if it's a contractor I don't know, you have to prove yourself. And if the contractor is going to give you a very hard time with that, tell him, you know what, I'll pay you after your first day of work. But I need to see what you're doing and that you're not running off with my money. Like that, it's that simple. And also don't hire contractors that you think might be drinking or doing drugs, because if you think that they will be on your job site and that's not fun to deal with. And
Speaker #2
I've had that happen. They're getting drunk and then they move in.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #2
And then your project never gets done.
Speaker #0
It's a mess. And I will also say this. Don't don't be afraid to attempt to DIY a few things when you run out of money. I had to you know, scrape up some laminate hardwood or laminate vinyl flooring up myself. And, and that wasn't fun, but you have to be somewhat prepared to do some of those little things every now and then. But I would say the biggest lesson that I learned on this flip, and it is just probably one of the biggest lessons I've learned as a real estate investor, because after the first flip, I practically broke even. I didn't fully break even. I did make enough to give my brother the $600 back that I borrowed from him and the little bit that I borrowed from my mom. And after that, I really had no money. I mean, I had no money left. And I remember calling my brother, and I was just, I was so angry. And I was like, you know, you need to come and get the $600, because there wasn't Zelle or anything like that then. So he comes over, he meets me, and I'm telling him, I'm like, you know what? I could have made money if these guys wouldn't have screwed me over, if this guy wasn't drinking, if this guy hadn't stole my material, if this guy hadn't of, you know. Hired me hired one guy all of these things. It was everybody else's fault except my own and I told my brother that And my brother, Scotty, is one of the smartest entrepreneurs I've ever known. He was able to buy and pay for a car at 15. He's all hustle and only kid I know driving to junior high. So I told him, I said, you know, I'm done with this. I'm not going to flip a house again. Why would I do this? I made no money. I put everything into it and it was a mess. And he just looked me dead in the eye and he was like, Jackie, if you want to be an entrepreneur, you're going to have to learn something about accountability. You're the one that said you could flip it. You're the one that got everybody together. You said you could do it. We all tried to help you. If this ship went down, you were the captain and that was your fault. And first off, ow, I wasn't prepared to hear that. But he told me, he said, accountability is the number one thing you have to learn. And I thought about it and it really resonated with me. And I thought, you know what? If I wouldn't have hired that one guy. and I would have hired a crew, I probably could have made some money. If I wouldn't have bought all the material at one time and did it in stages, I wouldn't have lost it. If I wouldn't have paid, I started, as much as I didn't like it, I could see where it was my fault. I saw what I could have done better. And, you know, if I wouldn't have paid the guy up front, I wouldn't have lost the money. So as much as, I didn't want to admit it to my brother, but I did, I could see past the mistakes. The smoke was clearing up. I could see the path to success ahead. And because I told him, I was like, I'm not flipping a house again. But it was at that moment I said, you know what? I don't know how to flip a house yet, but I sure as hell learned how not to flip a house. So let's go ahead and try it for the second time. And then the second time I made about $15,000. And then the third flip, I made over $100,000. So it went really, really well. And but, you know, it's that moment. It's that moment of when you're crying and you think this is the worst thing in the world. and you are ready to walk away. It's saying I'm going to be disciplined enough to keep going. I'm going to be committed enough to myself and trust myself that I have learned this and I can do better. And it's basically just not giving up when at the moment you feel like this is the time to give up. Because we all have that moment. We have moments where you wake up at four in the morning and you're like, oh my God, I just bought six houses at once. Did I really check those numbers the right way? Did I, you know, and you question yourself, but It's not giving up.
Speaker #1
It's not. It is just staying committed and having the discipline to keep going forward with it. consistency, and security to your portfolio. If you like real estate but want to avoid the ups and downs and effort, a Pine Mortgage Fund could be a perfect fit for you. Accredited investors will experience an 8% preferred return and profit sharing. Diversify your portfolio out of Wall Street and into Main Street with a Pine Financial Group Fund. To get more information at pinefinancialgroup.com. That's pinefinancialgroup.com. You said something that I really, really like there, the accountability piece. So many times we don't take responsibility for our own decisions and our own actions. And I think there's a reason highly successful people, Jackie, have coaches or accountability partners or accountability groups like mastermind groups. And it's sometimes difficult to hold yourself accountable. But if you have someone else that you're going to let down, that tends to stick a little bit better. It makes it a little bit easier. to do the thing you're afraid of because you don't want to let somebody else down, right?
Speaker #0
And I think the moment you learn that, the moment that you learn accountability without having to have your hand handheld, it changes everything for you in business because now you realize, okay, I'm not in the passenger seat, right? If I say it's everybody else's fault, I have no control over it. But the moment you say, like, it gets to the point to where you're so accountable that you're taking accountability for everything when sometimes it might not in fact be you, but you're like, no, I can find a way we're going to fix all of this. So when you can learn that accountability and the biggest thing is taking, like I said before, your pride and your ego and saying, I'm just going to, I'm just going to leave that home because it just can't be here. But the best part about it is the accountability. Because once you own that accountability, you're in the driver's seat. You can change it. Everything is now up to you and it's in your control. But if you want to say, it's not my fault, you're not going to grow. You're not going to change. You're not going to. you're not going to stay successful, even if you've had some success.
Speaker #1
Yeah, I agree. That's one of my core values. So you say without a handholding, I tend to, I might disagree with you a little bit there. I think handholding is okay. And I think having some support is essential to your success. And so you've created that with your coaching. And I'm sure part of that is holding your students accountable so that they do experience the results they're going for. I don't know that,
Speaker #0
but I'm assuming that. I'm I'm I'm fairly stubborn. So, but that is one of the biggest parts of when people message me or they want me to coach them and they want me to teach them. It's the accountability. And it's saying, you know, it is, if you screwed up, you screwed up. So what? Let it go. We're just going to keep on going and we're going to fix it. You know,
Speaker #1
you go out there and make that offer. Yeah.
Speaker #0
Just keep going and keep trying. And the other thing I think is, you know, when I am coaching, the biggest thing people have a problem with is thinking they have to be just fully ready until they start. And I was like, look, you're never going to be ready. There's never a point. I've done this for 22 years and I still I still screw things up. I still learn new things all the time. I'm not, you know, you can't be as obtuse to say, no, I know it all, or I want to know it all. Just be willing and open to learn every day because I mess things up all the time. It still happens, but I try to minimize it as much as I can.
Speaker #1
All right. So quickly tell us about your book and the coaching program.
Speaker #0
Oh yeah. So the book, the book is a really fun book. It's not a novel. It's basically 26. chapters of the biggest mistakes that I made. So you can laugh at me. You can make fun of me. It's fantastic. I laugh at myself about it all the time now, but really it's ultimately, it's called how not to flip a house because who cares about the success stories, right? We don't care if someone's successful. We want to know what it took to get there. Nobody wants the pictures from the top of the mountain. We want to know what it took to get up there. So that's kind of always been my thinking. Cause when I speak with people that are successful, I'm like, good, you've made a million dollars. I don't care about that. What did it? take. I want to know what the hard things were. So that's kind of what the book is about. It's about the mistakes, the biggest, what I consider the biggest mistakes that I made. So hopefully if you're reading it, you can say, okay, I'm not going to do that. Don't let's, let's avoid that at all costs because that happened to Jackie and we're going to learn vicariously. So we don't do that. So it's a real fun book. It's some of it's, you know, mindset related, some of it's flipping related, some of it's landlord related. Um, there's some emotional, you know, sections in it. And then there's a lot of things about integrity and having a good moral compass and operating a certain way. But it's also the dumb mistakes I've made, like not changing the locks, contractors having keys and stealing all of my Viking appliances out of a million dollar house. So, and then you have to put them back in there.
Speaker #1
Made that one too. Yep. That's, it's much better to learn from your book than experience. Yeah.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
Um, is it on audible?
Speaker #0
It is not on Audible, but if you purchase a digital copy, you get a downloadable audio version of it. So you can keep it in whatever you use.
Speaker #1
So is it listed on Amazon, the paperback? No,
Speaker #0
it's just on my website. I have it directly on my website. And a lot of people have asked me why I haven't put it on Amazon yet. And I said they're going to mark it up. I don't want them to mark it up. Everything that I do, I try to do with the new investor. mindset. And I know if things are too expensive when I was starting out, I wouldn't have been able to get them. So even my course, you know, I have that at cost, even when my attorney's like, that needs to be a $5,000, $10,000 course. And I said, I'd rather die 8,000 deaths than to make it that expensive. Otherwise new people are not going to get a chance to start. So I said, nope, we're putting it down as low as we can. And I'm leaving it there and I will leave it there forever. That's, that's not the honey on my biscuit. I make my money, most of my money. buy flipping houses in my rentals. So everything else I just try to do as cost effective as possible.
Speaker #1
Okay. And another advantage for the listeners benefit here, if you sell your book off of your own website, you get to capture the email address and then you get to keep that. And then that's how you build your database. I sell all of my books that I've written on Amazon because I'm trying to get it into as many hands as possible to help market the business. But I don't get to see who's buying it. So that's the disadvantage. So there's advantage and disadvantages to both routes. Yeah.
Speaker #0
And every person that buys mine, I send, if they buy a book, I will sign it. I write them a note. I talk, you know, I give them very personalized information to them. Some days it takes a lot of time, but it is absolutely worth it. And then I give them my information so they can find me online, find me on socials. They can DM me if they get stuck. So I try to be as accessible as possible within reason.
Speaker #1
This is awesome. All right. We are up against it here, Jackie. So I'm going to go through my notes. Every episode, I like to go just read my notes back to you, what I learned from this episode. And then you could just fill in any gaps that you would like to fill in. And then I would love one final piece of advice for maybe a newer real estate investor. And then obviously, we get all your contact information. Okay. So we started talking about your story and how you were so young. But what really stuck with me, Jackie, is the story about being in that car when that light came on. Um, that was pretty moving, I will say. Um, but you did say something right before that you got into real estate because you started listening more than speaking and you started listening to smart people smarter than you and they were making money and that's how you got in. So that was, that was a great message there. Um, we talked about the fear of being in the same position in one year and how that should drive you forward to get past the fear that's stopping you from doing the action that you need to do right now. Hard money lenders want to know the numbers. So make sure you understand the numbers before you start making your calls. Pride and ego, leave them at the door. Don't change what is not broken. So you changed the roof when you didn't need to. So do not overflip your properties. HDTV is not true. Don't believe it. There is some entertainment value though, for sure. Cheap contractors don't hire them. Try to hire subcontractors that specialize in their area. I'm dealing with that on a project that I took over. right now. We had a handyman install AC units and it didn't go right. So that, I love that one too. Strategic material purchase is what I wrote down. So I wrote that down because you don't want to buy all your material upfront. Be very strategic about this. Sometimes for the listeners benefit here, sometimes you got to order stuff right out of the gate. Like your cabinets, you want to get those on order as soon as you close on the house, because it takes a little while to get those in. So be very strategic with your material purchase. Never give money upfront. And one thing I want to add to that is If the contractor is asking you for that, which will happen a hundred times out of a hundred, tell them because they want to buy material, right? That's what they tell you. Absolutely. I would say, well, why don't you let me buy the material? Go to Home Depot, get all the stuff, go to the desk. They'll call me and use my credit card. That way you're making sure the money is going in the material and you're getting the credit card points. So that would be- And you know what they're buying. You know exactly what they're buying. So that's how I would handle that. Don't hire drinkers or druggies and- Take responsibility. You are responsible for your own success. And that was, we did drive that home. So hopefully the listener heard that message, but how do I do on my notes?
Speaker #0
Oh, you did fantastic. That is right on point. And exactly what you said about Home Depot. I tell everyone I will buy the material. You do call them, call me, do a phone sale, and we've got it. So then there's no excuses because they will try. And I will also add one more thing. If they are buying material on your money, always, always, you need to have a pro account where it emails you the list of material and you can make sure no one is buying tools or buying excess material that they're going to take back and get refunded. I watch for that regularly.
Speaker #1
Oh, a hundred percent. They always buy tools. They always buy their waters and their snacks because they're right by their cash register at Home Depot.
Speaker #0
I highlight it and I deduct it from their check.
Speaker #1
Yep. That's fantastic. Good advice. All right. I don't know if that was your final piece of advice, but do you want to have one final piece of advice for a newer investor?
Speaker #0
Actually, I do. And it's something we haven't spoke about yet, but I want to talk about the holding of the property when you're going to flip it. This is something that I teach regularly. So Let's say you're doing a flip and you know right now the ARV is 300,000. Now for me personally, and there might be some difference of opinions, if I know things are a little bit slower, or not even if they're slower, but if there's a couple other houses on that street, I'm going to be lower than them. I'm going to be about 10% to 5% lower than whatever they are. That way, and I'm going to make sure my grass is as green as can be. The door looks very nice. I mean, I have even golf course painted some of my grass. to make sure my house was the nicest. But make sure it is as nice as you can and do not be so rigid to say, my house is worth $300,000, so I am selling it for $300,000 and that's it and I am not budging. You will lose so much saying it's worth $300,000. I'm selling it for $300,000. If you get an offer for $280,000 and it still works and you're still making $65,000, take it. Don't sit on it so long because Those there's holding costs involved with that. And every month it's going to add up and it's going to be on market more. And then people are going to say, why has it been on the market for so long? Do not be afraid to drop it. Know your number, be a little bit cheaper than everybody else. And do not be so set on the number that you're not willing to sell it and you're going to lose money on it.
Speaker #1
That's fantastic. We could do a whole episode on price strategy because there's a lot to unwrap there. And we've talked about it on this show before, like sometimes pricing it lower than you're going to get and having it bid up. It's scary, but sometimes it's an effective strategy.
Speaker #0
Oh, it's absolutely doable. If I can get into a bidding war, so be it.
Speaker #1
It's exactly right. I agree. Cool. How do we get ahold of you?
Speaker #0
So you can get ahold of me. My main platform is TikTok, but my, on my socials, my handle on everything. If you want to go to my website, TikTok, Facebook, Instagram, it's Jackie, the happy investor all the way around. Everything is Jackie, the happy investor. So, but my main platform is TikTok. everyone messaged me on TikTok when they get questions, I answer about three to 400 a day. That's what I do at the end of the day. I don't know what y'all do, but I answer TikTok messages. I can't take a day off because then it doubles. So, but if you want to, I get to them as fast as I can. You can also leave comments on the videos and I do, you know, comments. But my website, if you want to skip the line and hit the contact me page on my website, those get answered really, really fast because no one really ever uses that. So that's a little tip if you really want to get ahold of me. But the website's JackieTheHappyInvestor.com. You can find my book. You can find my course. I'm going to do a July 4th sale for the course if you want it. If you don't, don't get it. It won't hurt my feelings. You can come on TikTok and I'm still going to give you all the goods on there. It's just the course is in order and you get all my documents.
Speaker #1
That's awesome. Okay. So JackieTheHappyInvestor, that's J-A-C-K-I-E, The Happy Investor. Thank you so much for being on the show. I know you're super busy, especially with now that I learned how many. messages you respond to every night. I wonder if there's an AI somehow that can help you with that.
Speaker #0
But there is, but I can't do it. It's got to be me. I've got to talk to people directly. Otherwise, the moment I think something's a bot, I'm like, I'm not your friend anymore. I'm not talking to you.
Speaker #1
So just a simple, the ones that you just say, thanks. And maybe, I don't know, but anyway,
Speaker #0
I could get that one.
Speaker #1
I know you're busy. Thank you so much for joining us on the show.
Speaker #0
Yes. Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker #1
For the listener, you have other podcasts you could be listening to, and you chose the Real Estate Educators podcast. And for that, I am so incredibly grateful. If you got value like I did,
Speaker #0
please five-star review, share it with a friend, and I hope you make this day a great one.
Speaker #1
I really hope you enjoyed this episode as much as I did. If you did, please be sure to follow and leave a five-star review. Oh, yeah, and tell a friend.

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