- Speaker #0
your audi is brent do you want to intro since this was your book this was your wreck this was your suggestion he can't say that enough technically it was uh it was highly recommended in our comments but you can take them down with you too i'm not gonna this is a great book i'm gonna stand by that you're
- Speaker #1
drinking while we talk about the girl i like that
- Speaker #0
LaCroix is LaCroix in French.
- Speaker #1
LaCroix is coming to get you. Don't stare into his bubbles.
- Speaker #2
Okay. Should we hit the button? Hello and welcome to Secret Identity. My name is Brent the Crow Birnbaum, joined by my co-host Troy Eric Bond.
- Speaker #0
We made sure all cameras were cleared of bullets before filming today.
- Speaker #2
And Slater Shelly Harrison.
- Speaker #1
I knew you were going to do Shelly. I'll take Sherry over Shelly. Shelly had a bad look on this comic.
- Speaker #2
You want to be, uh...
- Speaker #0
Sherry had a much better life.
- Speaker #2
Yeah, I mean... You could be top dollar.
- Speaker #1
Yeah, I was... I could be the... You're the crow, though. You guys took all the good ones. I don't know what I would do.
- Speaker #0
You could be Tintin. You could be Tintin.
- Speaker #1
Okay. I like that.
- Speaker #0
Or the cop, Auerbach.
- Speaker #1
Yeah, that's me. I feel it. I feel it.
- Speaker #2
So this was one of our most requested graphic novels slash movies, The Crow by James O'Barr, published in 1989. And this, many people consider to be the indie comic. Like, this is what set the tone.
- Speaker #0
for indie books and i don't think there's a book that's more emotionally connected to the creator than this one is yeah yeah he's got some uh trauma he had to work through he didn't even know when his birthday was because his mother was so drunk when she gave birth to him that she when the doctor showed up said uh it was sometime between christmas and new year's so they just made his birthday january 1st
- Speaker #2
James O'Barr.
- Speaker #0
James O'Barr was then soon put up for adoption, wasn't adopted until he was seven, lived with a bunch of different adopted families, some of which shouldn't have even owned animals, let alone have a human being with them. And his escape was art. And he was a self-taught artist. He failed art class when he was in it in school, not because he was bad at it, but because he thought he was so ahead of what they were doing that he wouldn't stoop to that level. And was really just an artist first and then just had nothing good in his life. Nothing good ever came in his life except for his wife who died tragically when I think the cops pulled him over and they took his car and he didn't have insurance. So he called her to come pick him up and a drunk driver hit her, hit him, yeah, hit her on her way to go pick him up. And he always blamed himself for it. And he was just like, I don't believe that there's a God, because if there was one, why did he give me this one flower just to trample all over it? And you really see it bled through these pages.
- Speaker #2
And he knows it's not his fault. It was the drunk driver's fault. And he can't get over that guilt.
- Speaker #0
Yeah, there's always that question in my head. What if I paid my insurance? Would she have lived?
- Speaker #1
Yeah, what if he had walked back or whatever?
- Speaker #2
yeah a million different things could have happened but like that you i i get that i wouldn't be able to forgive myself and you would slay myself well do you know what's the worst part is he finally started to forgive himself he finally started to be okay with himself and realize hey this wasn't on me like and this book helped him through that catharsis and then the book gets optioned to become a movie and his friend brandon lee gets cast in the lead role and then the same fucking shit happens dude i can't yeah the luck with this guy it's absolutely traumatic i how you You can't talk about The Crow without talking about what happened to Brandon Lee. Because so many people didn't see the movie because of the tragedy of what happened. And it's a bummer because Brandon Lee is outstanding in the film. And for those that don't know, what happened is during the filming of The Crow near the end, there's a scene between Brandon, who plays Eric, and Michael Massey, who plays Fun Boy. While they're doing the scene. And they're basically done with rapping. And Michael Massey is firing the gun. And the fucking prop person didn't do their due diligence and check that it wasn't loaded. And there was a bullet in there and he shot Brandon Lee dead.
- Speaker #1
I just don't get how there's ever any bullets in any guns on set.
- Speaker #0
I don't get why there is any. Then I can understand it. But now there should be any guns on set. You could CGI one in.
- Speaker #2
After this happened, it should have never happened again. It's completely inexcusable what Alec Baldwin did.
- Speaker #0
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and he was acquitted and there was all these, you know, the armor, I think, did go to jail. And they said it was because production costs were cut. He was the producer!
- Speaker #2
Exactly. You know,
- Speaker #0
like...
- Speaker #2
In The Crow, Michael Massey was just an actor. He didn't have any...
- Speaker #0
I can't imagine that.
- Speaker #1
Do you remember that guy's guilt?
- Speaker #2
Oh, he died in his mid-60s, and they said he just couldn't get over what happened.
- Speaker #1
That's just a scary go-round of...
- Speaker #2
And James O'Barr again was like, if I hadn't written this fucking book to get through my own trauma, then Brandon would still be alive. And Brandon's fiance is the one that helped him get through this. And with Brandon Lee, it's such a tragedy, too, because he's the son of the most iconic martial artist of all time who also died so young. He never got to know Bruce Lee, never got to know his father and was always in this guy's shadow and is finally coming out of it.
- Speaker #0
Yeah. And this was like he had done some bit parts before this, but he was. climbing that ladder of, oh, you're going to be, even though I was watching the movie, which I saw for the first time today, I was watching, I was going, oh yeah, he would have been a star.
- Speaker #2
He would have been a star.
- Speaker #0
And every, he played, after reading the book, I went, okay, he played the part of the crow perfectly. I watched the movie, then read the book, which was a mistake.
- Speaker #2
I did the same thing.
- Speaker #0
I did.
- Speaker #2
I watched the movie and then I read the book too.
- Speaker #1
Yeah. I wish I went the other way.
- Speaker #0
Well, before we get into it, we have some opinions and some thoughts about both. Why don't you tell us about The Crow? What do we got? Let's do it. What do we own within The Crow? Why do you think this was one of our most recommended books by everybody?
- Speaker #2
Well, I think one thing that I have to tap the three of us on the shoulders for is that we don't just do Marvel in D.C. We primarily do Marvel in D.C., but we like to explore other mediums. That's why. We've talked about anime. That's why we've talked about Last Ronin. And so I think...
- Speaker #1
Bone.
- Speaker #2
Bone, bone. Yes, absolutely. So I think understanding that there are these incredible graphic novels out there other than Marvel and DC. Yeah,
- Speaker #1
yeah. And this one, I think maybe it's because it's more on the outskirts of those worlds. So it's easier to just jump into. Like a lot of people love a revenge story. Yeah. And because I don't know if it's quite redemption,
- Speaker #2
but now.
- Speaker #0
Yeah. Eric Draven is like Batman, Moon Knight, Daredevil and Heath Ledger's inspiration for the Joker makeup all rolled into one.
- Speaker #2
No doubt.
- Speaker #1
Yeah. I was going to say I kept getting Heath vibes when we were watching the movie.
- Speaker #0
Yeah. I mean, like you watch it and because Heath Heath's performance as the Joker was so non derivative of anything. And the look. of the Joker definitely was crow inspired. But even just like the little mannerisms and everything, I was like, oh, you watch this to get into that mindset. Because the crow doesn't think, I mean, he is, he doesn't think killing anyone, there's nothing wrong with that. Blood for blood, that's good. Joker didn't think anything was evil, although the Joker was an evil character. And I would argue Eric Draven is a hero. And there are a bunch of different crows. Like there's a bunch of different iron fists. Some iterations of the crow I've heard you should watch, others not worth it. Like there's one where there's a crow that's a Native American who... His family was killed when the Confederates came and wiped out his land. Oh,
- Speaker #2
fascinating.
- Speaker #0
Yeah, it's like the Predator, you know? They have Predator and Prey. Was that the one that came out? Yeah, yeah. But I just looked into a little bit of the program.
- Speaker #2
We have to catch him. We're going to catch the Predator. Maria.
- Speaker #0
We're going to catch the guy who did this to other Maria.
- Speaker #2
Maria, I caught the Predator. Will you please take me back?
- Speaker #0
So who are the characters in The Crow? Yes,
- Speaker #2
definitely. There aren't that many characters.
- Speaker #0
There aren't. There's like three.
- Speaker #1
Yeah, that's why Shelly and Sherry, come on. We got to switch up the name.
- Speaker #2
Well, at least they call her Sarah in the movie, so it's easier to like.
- Speaker #0
Yeah, right.
- Speaker #1
It's very different.
- Speaker #2
Yeah. Well, the movie, they definitely make the movie more cinematic than this.
- Speaker #1
Yeah. I think they couldn't find a Shelly to play that role. Well,
- Speaker #0
even he stepped out of his, no, and they couldn't. They could not find a Shelly. They even made her say butt face in the movie. And I was like, if that's as far as she's going to go, then they definitely couldn't page the screen adaptation. Yeah.
- Speaker #1
They just took her at the end for the beginning scenes.
- Speaker #0
Yeah. Yeah. But the. This felt very manga to me reading it because it was in black and white. He didn't draw his characters with muscles like that you would see in a typical superhero. They probably jacked. But like they're jacked and like he.
- Speaker #2
In a realistic way.
- Speaker #0
He made himself. Yeah, he he modeled them off of Michelangelo statues. And yeah,
- Speaker #1
it's hard to.
- Speaker #2
It's really the opposite of what my...
- Speaker #1
That's a rigorous routine at the gym, guys. I don't know who that's realistic for.
- Speaker #0
Listen, Michelangelo and I are not the same sizes. I'll just say that.
- Speaker #2
Don't worry, you never will look like me.
- Speaker #0
You have to go outside to smoke your stogie.
- Speaker #2
Or you look like a painting, wow. Good for you, you look like Michelangelo. You know why I look like every man your wife wants to meet with.
- Speaker #0
What the fuck?
- Speaker #1
Well, they made those statues, the Roman statues, so realistic with the marble. And then, like, I guess in society back then, having a small dick was...
- Speaker #2
I look like Atlas, the man who holds...
- Speaker #1
Higher on the scale. two people don't live in those times Michael Landry don't know about shrinkage that's what I come in Ireland that's in my pool exactly that's why he's always naked yeah that's why in the shallow Michael Landry I always wait for you on a song but
- Speaker #0
April O'Neil was the star of Last Ronin and this book does not pass the Bechdel test Yeah, who do we got in here?
- Speaker #2
So we have Eric. So he's a man brought back from the dead by the mystical crow after he and his fiancee, Shelly, are murdered. He's consumed by grief and rage, seeking vengeance while haunted by the memories of his lost love. Interestingly, he named the main character Eric. It's supposed to be him after the Phantom of the Opera. And Shelly, after the writer of Frankenstein, marries Shelly because he felt like Frankenstein's monster.
- Speaker #1
I just kept hearing South Park.
- Speaker #2
Shelly! Shelly! Spider-Man loves you very much.
- Speaker #0
I am Crow. Yeah, yeah,
- Speaker #2
yeah. Yeah.
- Speaker #1
God damn it.
- Speaker #2
Next up, we have the Crow. He's a supernatural guy.
- Speaker #0
God damn it, birdie.
- Speaker #1
I'm going home
- Speaker #2
He's a supernatural guide and symbol of Eric's connection to the afterlife Gives him strength and urges him to complete his mission of vengeance Crow is so different in the book than the movie Yeah Crow's a character in the book Yeah,
- Speaker #0
maybe it's rotoscoped for the first time in the 90s Exactly Yeah,
- Speaker #1
literally a paper airplane Yeah Cruising through the sky Yeah All I wanna do And take a I'm not Beyonce
- Speaker #0
I wanna fly a train I don't care where T-Bird is. I want to kill this bee freak.
- Speaker #1
And then maybe Tintin too.
- Speaker #0
Also, all the gangster names are named after graffiti he saw driving around Detroit. James O'Barr. Oh, really? I found that out. That was pretty interesting.
- Speaker #1
I was like,
- Speaker #0
Tom Scholar. Yeah, because he's born and raised in Detroit. The story takes place in Detroit.
- Speaker #1
Like Detroit is the crow.
- Speaker #0
You made illusions out to the crow. It's gonna fly away,
- Speaker #2
ho.
- Speaker #0
makes detroit in this makes gotham look like metropolis yeah man yeah especially in the movie yes yeah i'll be at mark ridley's comedy castle in a few months come check me out troy bond call me.io i'll show up wearing crow makeup and you'll get five dollars off a ticket uh dr herbert oh no
- Speaker #2
Next up is Shelly, Eric's fiancee, whose brutal death becomes the driving force of his quest for revenge. So her presence is really felt through flashbacks.
- Speaker #1
Yeah. And I wonder why he, why it was changed for the movie. I think that the book story was so much better.
- Speaker #2
You mean like the random act, like with the car? I think that in the movie, they tried to make it more cinematic.
- Speaker #1
Like the-It was just a-
- Speaker #0
whiplash yeah from my brain yeah the book is the movie they had to make digestible for audiences the book was never intended to be published it was just him sort of working his way through this grief and then they showed it to this comic book manage uh store and then he decided that that owner i believe decided to self-publish it and then it it's just kept selling and selling and selling and selling then eventually gets optioned into a movie and then they got to make it palatable for all audiences yeah it's kind of like um
- Speaker #1
Nocturnal Animals. Did you guys ever see that with Jake Gyllenhaal and Amy Adams?
- Speaker #0
No.
- Speaker #1
It's like tortured by his family, like got murdered and he felt like it was his fault and he survived it and all this stuff. So it's like a very similar thing to this. Oh, interesting. Interesting that it's Nocturnal Animals. This is Crow. I wonder if there's a connection there. But yeah, it's really good. And like the adaptation is like his mind and he wrote a screenplay about it. So it's a very similar vibe. Oh,
- Speaker #2
interesting. Wow.
- Speaker #1
Yeah.
- Speaker #2
Yeah, I think you hit the nail on the head exactly. This was, he would have been fine if he never published this. Right. This was his catharsis to get through the death of his fiance. Whereas like in the movie, that's why they had to create the character of Top Dollar and make him like this overarching crime boss because they had to make it cinematic. Yeah,
- Speaker #0
yeah, yeah, yeah. Horrible character. Yeah.
- Speaker #1
The crow. Crows are always like symbolized with such a negative dark thing. So it's weird that it's the hero in this.
- Speaker #2
Yeah.
- Speaker #1
Oh, he's doing a lot of dark through. the crow yeah you hear that thing coming you gotta go you gotta run that is murder litter is shit the crow is here it's morning yo we're going on well he's like talking to him in the book which i found funny yeah he's like don't look back yeah
- Speaker #0
how do you know what i see in my brain dude these are memories yeah he was way more uh uh less creepier than um Brian as the Raven in Game of Thrones. This was a crow I could have kept watching.
- Speaker #2
Dude, fuck Brian.
- Speaker #0
And who has a better story than Brian the Autistic?
- Speaker #2
Literally everyone!
- Speaker #1
Brian and Dirty!
- Speaker #2
uh next up is top dollar so he's a member of t-bird's gang top dollar is just kind of a gang member in the book in the movie they turn him into the overarching antagonist and like it's revealed that he was the one pulling all the strings again i i feel the movie that's where it kind of goes off the rails it's when they like set up uh like the top the long hair dude yeah who looks like freaking the room yeah
- Speaker #0
oh tommy was so high crawl high crawl i did not hit her i did not i did not oh hi crow Everybody, I'm fed up with this world. I blew up the pawn shop and I don't care anymore. Don't touch me, mother crower.
- Speaker #1
No one can kill me.
- Speaker #0
No one can kill me. Wow, this dude like monster. She's my sister.
- Speaker #2
What, do I not say this enough, Top Dollar? You're like most evil man I've ever met.
- Speaker #0
I just got done editing a phone one. I watched like our Barry impressions like five times.
- Speaker #2
Yes!
- Speaker #0
i'm chibord that's gonna be all grease lightning oh man they said nick cage play that i like ant-man because he gets small oh yeah he's a little bit smaller like this the second does so much smaller than the first there's my friend yes
- Speaker #2
We go down on each other, but it's not gay.
- Speaker #0
Oh, these guys are like tie shoes. He has no heart.
- Speaker #2
It's just a sign of friendship.
- Speaker #0
It's what it sounds like until you bring it up every time. Then it feels like something else.
- Speaker #2
I gave him a bro job. It's when one man blows another man.
- Speaker #0
I can't explain it.
- Speaker #2
AIDS had the worst sexuality throughout.
- Speaker #0
You know what it was? Well, maybe they didn't, because it's not even a thing.
- Speaker #1
It's a bro choice.
- Speaker #0
Bro choice. Bro life. Who else do we have? Is that it for characters?
- Speaker #2
No, no, we have a couple more. So then we have T-Bird. So he's the leader of the gang responsible for murdering Eric and Shelly. I really liked it so much better in the book where he's just finally going after T-Bird because he takes T-Bird out like what? Like halfway through the movie?
- Speaker #0
Yeah, yeah. Is that the one that he blows up in the bar? Yeah. And that's the one who shot Brandon Lee. That's the guy. No,
- Speaker #2
no, it was a fun boy who shot him, the drug addict.
- Speaker #0
Oh, wow.
- Speaker #1
With the mom? Yeah,
- Speaker #2
exactly.
- Speaker #0
Okay, yeah. No, so yeah. Yeah, because for half the movie, I thought T-Bird was the long-haired dude. Yeah. I was like, okay, this is the overarching villain. And then after he died, I was like, oh.
- Speaker #2
They just elevated top dollar in the movie. Yeah,
- Speaker #0
yeah, yeah. I liked that in the book. Is that the special edition? That's the one we read, too. I love that one. It's so good. I loved the forward. I loved the backward. I loved...
- Speaker #1
I liked it in between.
- Speaker #0
Yeah, I liked it in between, and I liked it when you slide it. It felt very, it reminded me of some of the Kingdom Come mystic elements with some of the pencil drawings that he had in between. Totally. It's such a beautiful piece of art, but who else were the characters?
- Speaker #2
Next up, we have Tintin.
- Speaker #0
But I digress, Brian.
- Speaker #2
Tintin's a gang member marked by his sadistic tendencies and Eric's first victim. This is my favorite of the gang members. Tintin? Tintin.
- Speaker #0
Yeah, he had a cool death in the movie.
- Speaker #2
He's definitely the one that gets elevated in the movie. Yeah. Oh, yeah,
- Speaker #0
yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And he had all the knives in him. And yeah, it was really cool.
- Speaker #2
That's my favorite scene because it's the first time he makes an appearance to one of the people that attacked him. Yeah. And then so he's fighting Tintin and Tintin's like, who the fuck are you? Like, what did I ever do to you? Yeah. I want you to tell me a story.
- Speaker #0
Yeah.
- Speaker #2
Yeah. And then Tintin realizes.
- Speaker #1
Very reverse Joker.
- Speaker #2
Yeah.
- Speaker #0
He goes, When the kids walk up to him during Halloween.
- Speaker #1
Only time he's ever smiled. I know.
- Speaker #0
Can't rain all the time.
- Speaker #1
And when they're like, are you a clown? Sometimes.
- Speaker #0
This is one of those times.
- Speaker #2
It will be incredibly rainy. Are you?
- Speaker #1
Yeah, the rain, they're really trying to make an art. piece yes it was it was the most 90s movie it was the same rain machine from the room yeah yeah it was only half full i was trying to remind myself that when i was watching the movie because at first i was like what in the world we watch it coming back from nashville okay well i i watched the first 40 minutes slater got through the first 20 minutes i passed out during all the murders what does that say the best part of the movie you Yeah.
- Speaker #0
Once you realize for what it is, you're like, okay, yeah.
- Speaker #2
Exactly. You can't compare it to something like Kick-Ass or Endgame or these awesome, iconic movies of this time.
- Speaker #1
Yeah. If I saw it now, I'd be like, or if I saw it the time that it came out. I would be like, oh shit, this is crazy. It's ahead of its time.
- Speaker #2
It's like Batman 89.
- Speaker #0
That's exactly what I was thinking of it. Even when you were talking about the camera angles and how so much of it was, what was the word you used? It was innovative for its time. Like they're trying to step up for the first time. You watch like a lot of the Schumacher movies, as we've talked about, it's like the 90s version of the 60s show, but the camera angles were still very aerial, very like, how do we shoot a superhero movie right now? Because they thought they had more technology than they. they actually did because it was the 90s and they had to follow up the cocaine fueled ninja turtle gremlin orgy that was the 80s and they were like all franchises are dead how do we start new ones this was sort of like one of the we had ninja turtles and we had superman but this was like the first modern superhero movie and i know this is after batman this is after everything else but this is like the first sort of one where you're seeing stunts you're seeing a lot of these these brutal on-screen murders It really wasn't until Sin City where you saw anything like this again in theaters that I could think of. And I'll probably get some hate for saying that, but that's what that reminded me of. No,
- Speaker #2
you're right.
- Speaker #0
I have to give it a lot of pass because it's the first time doing anything like this.
- Speaker #2
And Sin City is a better, yeah, Blade to an extent. But even Blade, I don't think ever gets truly as graphic.
- Speaker #0
Not as the Crow movie.
- Speaker #1
No, that was brutal. It didn't give you any moment to breathe. I couldn't even follow what he was doing because he was doing flips and shit he had some good choreo going on
- Speaker #2
Lee it's in his blood he was crushing it that sucks what I think about the movie is it's a meh movie that's truly elevated by an outstanding performance by Brandon Lee absolutely that'll make a movie it will make a movie exactly great art will make a meh story mhm Yeah, I mean, I've looked.
- Speaker #0
Like King Kong. I'm going to get you. I didn't want to say it.
- Speaker #2
I know, I know. Troy and I.
- Speaker #0
I clearly love you, Alex Roth.
- Speaker #2
We love Alex Roth so much as an artist.
- Speaker #0
He's an incredible artist. I listen. I think he's great. There was parts, but Brandon Lee was my old Superman at the table. And. Kingdom Come for me for the Crow movie. That's the analogy.
- Speaker #2
Old Superman.
- Speaker #0
The beauty and the visual striking art of Kingdom Come. That's what Brandon Lee was to me in the movie that made it worth finishing the rest of the movie. I also love the cop's performance too. I can't remember what that actor's name is.
- Speaker #2
The guy from Ghostbusters.
- Speaker #0
Yes, he was so great.
- Speaker #2
Ernie Hudson? Yes,
- Speaker #0
Ernie.
- Speaker #1
Was Ghostbusters before this?
- Speaker #0
Yeah, before. About 10 years, right?
- Speaker #1
Wow. So he went to ghost to...
- Speaker #0
Crows.
- Speaker #1
To crows. Ghost to crows.
- Speaker #0
And then counting crows.
- Speaker #2
I was like, great pun. I was like, wait, that's not a pun. That's a big pun.
- Speaker #0
That's just a...
- Speaker #2
That's just nonsense. Rhyme.
- Speaker #1
What are you singing?
- Speaker #0
I'm singing big pun. Ponycua, crowing out, ponycua.
- Speaker #1
Want to go to Croatia? No.
- Speaker #0
I want to go to the next character.
- Speaker #1
It looks beautiful there.
- Speaker #2
Next character is Funboy. So he's a violent and drug-addicted gang member who meets his brutal end at Eric's feet.
- Speaker #0
That's where he got his name from. Fun boy.
- Speaker #2
Next is Tom Tom. Tom Tom doesn't add anything to the story. They change his name to Skank in the movie.
- Speaker #1
Yeah, I was wondering.
- Speaker #0
A little close to Tim Tim. Yeah,
- Speaker #2
that's what I thought. I was like, all right.
- Speaker #1
What are we doing?
- Speaker #0
It's graffiti across Detroit.
- Speaker #2
And we got phone bone. And then we got phony bone.
- Speaker #1
That's what I'm saying. They're like, F and a B-H, that's enough of a difference. It's like, what? No.
- Speaker #2
And we got the grandma, and what are we going to name her?
- Speaker #0
Ben Rosie.
- Speaker #2
Ben Rosie.
- Speaker #1
Yeah, like, what? It makes no sense. Maybe there's a reason behind it, and I just lost it.
- Speaker #0
Maybe it'll come to us at the end of this.
- Speaker #2
And what's the grandma's sister going to be named? We'll call her Brian. You can't call her Brian. All right, we'll call her Briar. Brilliant.
- Speaker #1
Call her Bri, like the cheese.
- Speaker #2
Last up is Sherry. So she's a young, neglected girl Eric befriends during his quest.
- Speaker #0
representing innocence and humanity in the movie her name is sarah yes yeah they changed it hollywood was like we can't be doing that they kept shaving her head down every two inches and there will be i don't know why they were doing that yeah was she like becoming a true i'd have also her mom like parents are for one scene and isn't in the movie again she like doesn't make her eggs and then does and then you don't see her again she's still like sleeping in a burnt down paddock that i'm sorry i thought he vacated a year ago and has done nothing with it since yeah why does he go back there and hang out there and it's like still being rained in that shit finally listen to his music that cat that's an indoor movie yeah yeah i don't know how it stayed alive i guess there's enough rats in that building yeah and it was white too yeah like this bitch gonna get dirty yeah well i i looked at the white like a i don't know if this is like a duh observation but like as a juxtaposition of the black crow yeah i figure yeah but in the book he has like a whole gang of cats following yeah he's
- Speaker #1
like a little shepherd for them it's weird well what i have the money because he's a
- Speaker #2
on his ninth life well what i love about the book is it doesn't try to answer these questions like yeah the movie that's what i'm trying to pull over yeah well the movie's just like well the crow is the source of his power and i'm like we don't need to know what the crow is yeah it doesn't they never explain why he gets out of the thing
- Speaker #0
like he just sort of comes out of the grave yeah then they're like oh yeah we gotta explain this by act three crow but again it's that you two different stories they're telling the movie's telling the movie story the book is telling uh his story of losing his wife right that was never imagine if your journal entries that you were writing to get through a tragic time in your life where people were like let's turn this into a movie that's sort of what happens and that's why like when you look at the book you go oh okay i should have read this right yeah yeah
- Speaker #1
because the movie when it comes out the grave like it's hocus pocus like bro yeah that's probably where they got it from hocus pocus was after this yeah
- Speaker #2
well welcome back yeah i'm pretty sure that's so funny so story-wise we're starting at in the yeah how many books it's it's uh it's a couple different books i honestly just wrote like a small summary okay yeah it's a discussion piece that's what i figured yeah so like the story's all about eric and his fiancee shelly they're murdered in a brutal attack orchestrated by a gang led by t-bird he's resurrected by a mystical crow eric returns from the grave to exact vengeance on the gang killing them one by one while haunted by his memories of Shelly and their love. As Eric hunts his enemies, he befriends Sherry, a young girl who offers him moments of hope and humanity in a world consumed by pain and violence. In the end, Eric fulfills his quest for justice, reuniting with Shelly in death and finding peace in the afterlife. And that's all the book really is. It's really a guy systematically taking out gang members that killed him, that killed his wife, and it's just, it's James O'Barr really processing this pain. in this time where he felt that there was no justice in the world and so he wanted to create his own justice um hocus pocus came out in 93 so this was after those same times yeah this is the same time as the movie bro came out first yeah yeah
- Speaker #1
that's probably the inspiration i i like it swapped actually better they're probably like yeah they saw her focus and they were like this is how to get him out exactly why because i know you really
- Speaker #0
like this story. When did you start reading it? When did you get into it? What are your thoughts about revisiting as an adult? Because as you get older, you start to...
- Speaker #2
I never read it as a kid.
- Speaker #0
Yeah. Okay, so you read it as a kid.
- Speaker #2
I just read it for the first time a few months ago.
- Speaker #0
What were your thoughts? Did you see the grief comparison? Did you know the story going into it?
- Speaker #2
I watched the movie first, then I read the story. I have a co-worker who loves this book because he was a 90s kid.
- Speaker #0
This is a 90s kid manual. You get this, a razor, and an analog TV.
- Speaker #2
We were 2000s kids. Yeah. We were kind of past this, but I think for 90s kids...
- Speaker #0
We got 9-11. Yeah,
- Speaker #2
delightful.
- Speaker #1
That was a different kind of bird.
- Speaker #2
That was great.
- Speaker #0
And by 9-11, I mean Galactus in Fantastic Four 2. Rise of the Silver Surfer.
- Speaker #2
Oh, God. Still makes me mad.
- Speaker #0
That's why I bring it up, just to give you a message.
- Speaker #1
I was just going to say.
- Speaker #0
Everyone.
- Speaker #1
Tapping on it.
- Speaker #0
Yeah, you know, I love it. I love to get a reaction out of him.
- Speaker #2
The hot dance!
- Speaker #0
Sorry, continue.
- Speaker #2
But yeah, he said this kind of inspired a whole generation of goth kids. Yeah. Which makes sense.
- Speaker #1
Wow. Yeah, this is ICP written all over it.
- Speaker #2
Right?
- Speaker #0
Yeah. ICP. Every babysitter I had was in the My Chemical Romance and The Crow. And Nightmare Before Christmas. Even in the movie, like you look at some of it, we said the skyscape kind of looks like they just took it. out of the nightmare before christmas set and put it behind him while he's playing guitar like i want to know what the budget this is halloween halloween halloween devil's night well it was the night before yeah yeah so in this town we call home why do you think this book Because I think they rated Eric Draven, the crow, 37 on 100 Greatest Superheroes of All Time.
- Speaker #1
Who did that, IGN?
- Speaker #0
IGN, yeah. Brent's like, all right, another bullet in the gun with IGN's name on it.
- Speaker #2
Overtime.
- Speaker #1
You want to know why I use a knife, IGN?
- Speaker #0
Guns are too quick like your articles in a paywall. Why do you think this stands the test of time the way it does? Is it because people, I think people who get into comics or people who are deep readers like to escape into their own world. And as you get older, you start to lose people, maybe not as horrifically as Obar did, but you start to think about your life as a whole and as a picture. And you find creative outlets. And this is a very specific creative outlet that there's... guy used a therapeutic one that resonated with millions yeah and i think the tragedies ensued with this wife and brandon lee's like even in the movie it credits brandon then eliza and just crazy to look at and see because that just that really punched me because i went into this knowing brandon lee died but just learned about the wife story and putting your wife second in the movie after brandon because he just died making this why do you think that this holds up the way it does today
- Speaker #1
I think you hit the nail on the head. I think everyone's dealt with loss. And I think this is a man saying, hey, this is me trying to get through it. Like, no matter who you are, you've lost someone. And no one can say don't grieve because you have no idea what that person's going through. And he didn't really know how to process this.
- Speaker #0
You don't know what grief is.
- Speaker #1
You don't know what grief is. And this is him really experiencing, like, brutal fucking grief.
- Speaker #2
Yeah. It's like, that's why it was important to. kind of read the beginning the forward yeah yeah what did it say in the forward that you thought was important to reading the book it was very personal yeah essentially that he was just saying that like everybody's lost something and if you think you haven't then you already have and all this other stuff like it was really poignant and then throughout it it was kind of reminding me like the five stages of um grief right so because he but he had his own stages yeah yeah yeah this is how it stayed happy ending yeah denial anger bargaining depression acceptance yeah but his was like fear yeah pain like yeah and then heroin yeah morphine whatever to get it out of the system yeah storytelling yeah so that was it's sad but characters are um the crow's journey i am crow yeah yeah Yeah. But it was, you could honestly kind of feel the pain throughout the book and how it was transcending him and also, like, beating him to a pulp and then the actions that, you know, the character, aka, like, his mind was probably making. Because, like, anyone that's lost somebody, your immediate, like, reaction is to, like, punish the person who made you lose. your person so it's just i think people probably are so gravitated towards it because loss is so relatable and like this is kind of them getting to live through the the idea if they could get revenge or like what they would do and where he would end up losing someone
- Speaker #0
to you there's always that party that blames yourself especially in this case he had obvious reason to blame himself uh even though he couldn't really you done anything did you see like spurts of like him because i saw i saw the writer and i saw the artist which was very easy to do in this because he did both right but i saw the writer and the artist in eric when he would get that revenge on one of those goons and then spent the next like few pages just shredded over it still tormented over stuff because there's still all this pain that you feel yeah like i think that was kind of maybe the point or at least one of them because like
- Speaker #2
After each time, he's playing the memories of his wife in his head. And even the crow's like, don't do that.
- Speaker #1
The crow said, don't look.
- Speaker #0
That's what makes him such a great addition to the book. If you don't read the book, you're doing yourself a big disservice.
- Speaker #1
The book is better. The book is way better. The book is much better than the movie. Yeah,
- Speaker #2
the book makes more sense. You can really feel the pain on the page. It's really, it's like. His inner thoughts, the crow's thoughts, it's everything.
- Speaker #1
The book is a work of art. People should see the movie as a tribute to Brandon Lee, who's outstanding in it. Yeah.
- Speaker #0
That's a great point.
- Speaker #2
Yeah.
- Speaker #0
because yeah i didn't know i did i was yeah i was i was playing uh uh dick cavett too much so i was like let me step back i was just kind of no i'm like burping and trying to do it off mic sorry did you hear it no i didn't hear it okay i was like you'd be like what's this you're gonna say by the crow morty brian you pick great independent books like uh scott pilgrim this actually kind of reminds me of scott well thank you for the compliment but it's not you
- Speaker #1
hey shut up and let me talk i just know it just made me think of scott pilgrim because that was a way in in a way that in it's it's a similar but different type of thing where he shelly is of age he's of age but james obar is really showing his pain and his anger in this and brian leo malley and scott pilgrim is also being very honest and saying that hey as a guy in my 20s i wasn't a great guy i really ran away i didn't take responsibility for my actions and i really need to grow up and be a better person and be a more responsible person and it takes balls to say that how did eric do that in the crow uh how did eric uh how did he what was his arc
- Speaker #0
would you say that he ended up redeeming or saved or because it could look he looked at it just like a vengeance thing where where was his acceptance where was his okay i did what i was supposed to here would you say i think it's knowing this is catharsis and did you see one with this
- Speaker #1
with uh obar's wife yeah i mean i think his catharsis was it was taking out all the gang members and finally taking out people i he's i thought so too i think i think he's kind of the counter to peter parker whereas like toby mcguire in uh noah helm is saying hey i got revenge on the guy who killed my my uncle it didn't make a difference and eric is kind of saying oh no it makes a difference oh no i feel freaking great man you Yeah.
- Speaker #2
Stop. As far as I'm concerned, you were all dead the day you touched her.
- Speaker #0
Well, what are the pros and cons of both? Let's break that down. Like, what are the pros to being a Peter Parker? What are the cons? What are the pros to being an Eric Draven? What are the cons? As someone who knows Peter Parker the best, why don't you start?
- Speaker #2
Okay, so.
- Speaker #1
Parker.
- Speaker #0
I think he's a crow. He's dead. He's Bruce Lee's son. There are many interesting things about him.
- Speaker #1
I think as a general person, it is better to be a Peter Parker because I think Peter Parker is a better adjusted person. I think he's someone that you should strive to. I think turning the other cheek, being the bigger man, not knowing to have guardrails and not cross the line is pretty cool. And I think that's why I love about Peter. As a reader, it's more satisfying to read about an Eric.
- Speaker #2
Yeah. Could you imagine it was more of a take of him just like doing a 12-step program?
- Speaker #1
Yeah.
- Speaker #2
We're giving up.
- Speaker #1
That's why we read comics. No,
- Speaker #0
we read it so we can escape into this world because we can't do these things.
- Speaker #1
Yeah. Do you think James O'Barr would have gotten over his fiance's grief if Eric Dreamer says, Hey, you know what, T-Bird? I know you're right. You're black. I know you sexually assaulted and murdered my wife, but I forgive you.
- Speaker #0
I forgive you and every clone of you and every universe and every variant. For how many girlfriends, wives, Aunt Mays, Uncle Ben's, and Grandma Peter's you kill. And possibly my parents sometimes. I forgive you. And me, James O'Barr, is going to be fine with this book and any success or downfalls that may come to it.
- Speaker #2
Yeah. He just knocks on everyone's door. Like a little Jehovah's Witness. All right. He sends the crow with a little message. Yeah,
- Speaker #0
you're a total fairy. This will double the tweet.
- Speaker #2
I just want to scare him a little bit. Give him some non-gluten-free.
- Speaker #1
He walks in on the crow begging someone. The crow said, don't look.
- Speaker #2
Let the boy walk.
- Speaker #0
The crow was well endowed.
- Speaker #2
That's why there's a flock now. Where have all these crows been going?
- Speaker #0
Is that what that was? I messed and misheard with the crow head.
- Speaker #1
There's a flock.
- Speaker #2
Yeah. Okay. Yeah, walk a flock.
- Speaker #1
Crow go hard.
- Speaker #2
Crow go hard. They weren't ever trying to find him, though, because no one knew who he was.
- Speaker #1
The crow? Yeah. He's a bird. No one's looking for him.
- Speaker #2
Okay, so.
- Speaker #0
That's what's funny in the movie. Yeah,
- Speaker #1
I know.
- Speaker #2
Well, that's the other thing. Okay, so, like, are the crow and him interchangeable? Are they both at the same time physically there?
- Speaker #1
In the book, no one else can see the crow. Only he can see the crow.
- Speaker #0
That's interesting. I didn't pick up on that. Did you pick up on that?
- Speaker #2
That's what I was trying to figure out. Okay. Yeah. I figured. Brent, the thesaurus over here. Yes. Brent thesaurus. I'm a bird. If you're a bird, I'm a bird, Brent.
- Speaker #1
I'm a bird, baby.
- Speaker #2
Birds of a feather.
- Speaker #1
I'm not a crow. I'm a raven.
- Speaker #2
Would you be a raven? He's a Kraven. Ew, what's that?
- Speaker #1
He would be a Kraven.
- Speaker #0
I know, I'm sorry.
- Speaker #1
I would be because I see into the future.
- Speaker #2
Oh, okay. All right.
- Speaker #0
That's the difference?
- Speaker #1
No, that's so Raven.
- Speaker #2
What would you... That's so Craven. I can't see.
- Speaker #1
I would love to see her.
- Speaker #0
That's so Craven. That's so Craven. We have to hunt down Corey in the house.
- Speaker #1
He's the spider.
- Speaker #0
He is the spider. And then we go after Orlando Johnson or whichever one is the meth head now. Orlando Brown. Orlando. Then we go after Orlando Brown.
- Speaker #2
Then I take off my shirt.
- Speaker #0
And then I take off my shirt and I marry a woman much older than me and we don't talk about it.
- Speaker #2
And I crawl out of the woods.
- Speaker #0
For her sake. What did you think of this?
- Speaker #1
What, you didn't see that coming?
- Speaker #0
You didn't see that coming? That's how I took out her eye. What did you think of this first time going through it?
- Speaker #2
Oh, God. I mean, I read it super fast, maybe because I had seen the movie first.
- Speaker #0
Did you get to a point where you're like, this isn't like the movie? Yeah. Because I'll be honest, I told Slater like 20 times I did not like it. And then I got into it.
- Speaker #1
The movie or the book?
- Speaker #0
The.
- Speaker #2
both but then i got to a certain point in the book where i was like okay i like this now i love the book i the movie i saw once and i'm not gonna watch again no yeah yeah we had two sittings to finish it but we did it um no but the book is good and i i don't know if i wish i read it first or watched the movie first or whatever it doesn't matter but um yeah i think it's it was it was a healthy serving of depression and you need some of those yeah and um just like i don't know not pity i didn't pity the i don't pity the crow um do you think he was hot but in the movie or in the book yes you can be true what brunt's like i love mastermind mystic figures um
- Speaker #1
I've been waiting for this moment.
- Speaker #0
Sometimes I wonder if John Travolta's spirit from one of the Thetans that were not rescued out of his body jumps into yours right before you get here.
- Speaker #1
Like, oh my God, it's a tragedy.
- Speaker #0
And that shirt, it's exactly what I see.
- Speaker #1
The only thing that's tragic is how many times he keeps his shirt on in the movie.
- Speaker #0
Yeah. Anything you... Because you got into this today.
- Speaker #2
reading it uh you liked reading it more once we looked at it as a movie because we both watched it together we're like okay i understand like that was a rough uh that was a rough well there was so much high praise for it that sometimes could read it it's definitely it's definitely for it's good for the time that it came out and i won't i won't bash on the movie i think that the book is better but that's the case in anything else and i just like appreciated the vulnerability that he put into all of it it really is like his heart and soul on the pages exactly and yeah how can you not respect that you know
- Speaker #1
I love that you said vulnerability because, frankly, my favorite parts of this book are where he's being vulnerable and showing the moments between Eric and Shelly, which were, like, really inspired by moments between him and his fiance. Oh,
- Speaker #2
yeah. I was reading that. I was like, did he, like, make his wife look like this? Because she was banging. I didn't search you.
- Speaker #0
Yeah, she had that 70s hairstyle because she died in, I think, 80. Yeah. Not before then. So, like, she was. She was directly like,
- Speaker #2
yeah, like that. Those were definitely like snippets of conversations. They've probably had to exactly. Yeah. Which is,
- Speaker #1
it would be funny though. If in real life, James O'Barr didn't look like Eric Draven. He looked like Danny DeVito.
- Speaker #0
No, they based him. Well, I think we had a good discussion about the crow. Yeah. Now we're ended on your beef with Peter.
- Speaker #1
The crow is excellent. Everyone should read it. Every great. It's an amazing homage to Brandon Lee.
- Speaker #0
It's a beautiful indie comic. All of its flowers are well-deserved.
- Speaker #1
Uh-huh. Exactly. Like,
- Speaker #2
All right, well, now, Peter, let's hear it.
- Speaker #1
Hey, Peter. Yeah, yeah, that's right. Guys, thank you so much for listening. Really just love this book. And again, this is a book that you guys recommended to us. So please continue commenting. Continue telling us what to read. I've been Brent Birnbaum.
- Speaker #0
I've been loving the books you've been recommending. Troy Bond. I'm Troy McClure.
- Speaker #2
You missed 100% of the shots you don't pick. Later. Caw, caw. Welcome to the Disney World Tourism Center.
