- Speaker #0
Don't work with big influencers. Work with the smaller influencers for so many reasons. On TikTok shop, I would say very bare minimum commission is 10%, 15%. Free just can also filter by commission amount, like 30% or over.
- Speaker #1
If it's a beauty product and you're going to buy it or supplement every 30 days, why not give away a much higher or even 100% of the product the first time around?
- Speaker #0
The first message, outreach message, should cover all the bases. Simple. to the point leave the creator with just one question it's like do you want to work with us yes or no you're wanted i'm marketing misfits with norm farrar and kevin king mr farrar how you doing man good to see you another week another great podcast i
- Speaker #1
hope this kind of depends on you kevin uh it could be a good podcast or it could just on me it depends on me
- Speaker #2
Whether I let you ask a question or not? Uh-huh.
- Speaker #1
That usually, you know, is challenging.
- Speaker #2
Well, sometimes we have to redo them because you hit the wrong button. So I'm like, I'm counting on you to hit the right button.
- Speaker #1
You always push my buttons.
- Speaker #2
That's why your glasses are fogging up, right?
- Speaker #1
That's it. Well, except because it's you. But, all right.
- Speaker #2
And you know what I've been working on lately?
- Speaker #1
What have you been working on lately?
- Speaker #2
A schedule for the CMS trip in November. You heard of CMS, right? You heard of the Collective Mind Society. Our guest today has actually been to the last one, but we have one coming up in November. What are we doing, Norm? What are we doing in November?
- Speaker #1
Well, I didn't read your agenda, but if there was a little bit of my input, then we're going to be in Tampa, the cigar capital of North America, and we are going to have a bash. It's going to be an incredible... event for like-minded individuals who just love cigars, sitting around, talking. We've got a great event happening. So that's going to be in Tampa. That's in November. We're going to go to the, what was voted the world's number one cigar lounge, which is kind of cool. We've got some really incredible cigar tours happening. So you'll actually get to roll your own cigar and see how it's done properly. I don't know. Mine's probably going to look like a U.
- Speaker #2
I'm not smoking. I don't know if I'm going to be smoking the ones you roll.
- Speaker #1
I don't know.
- Speaker #2
It's going to be falling all in my lap. But no, it's going to be really cool. So we have four nights, three full days trip to, I think there's like seven cigar lounges that we're going to. Plus, like Norm said, a museum and a rolling place. A lot of people don't realize Tampa is the cigar capital of the world. They always think of Cuba or Miami. Something like that, but it's actually Tampa. More cigars are made there than anywhere else. And Norm and I went and checked it out back in May, and we got super excited. This trip's going to be awesome. So if you want to know more about that, you can go to Collective Mind Society. And you know what, our guest today was actually on the trip that we did last year through the Canadian Rockies. And, you know, our guest today actually is one of the big reasons I'm paying more attention to social media. I bet you didn't know this, Norm. I remember when I first heard of. of Gracie. It was like 20, oh man, someone had told me about TikTok like 2017, 2018. Like you got to check out this TikTok. And I'd heard about Musical.ly before it became TikTok. And I think Gary Vee was talking about it. And then somehow I can't, I can't remember exactly where, I think she came on a podcast with somebody or she was on a summit and she's like, I got 1.3 million followers and I'm doing, I got all these deals and I'm doing this and doing this. And then She came down to an event in Austin, we were hanging around with a bunch of people and she was kind of hinting, she wouldn't actually say, but someone was grilling her on how much money are you making doing this as an influencer? And she kind of beat around the bush, but it was decent money, eye-opening. And I was like, all right, this influencer stuff, I got to start taking seriously. And so that's why I started actually started looking into a lot of the social media and started hyping it in the BDSS. and And all the stuff that I do, the newsletter and everything. So it's because of her that I actually started paying closer attention to what's become something everybody should be paying attention to. Do you believe that?
- Speaker #1
Do you believe that? I don't believe it. I think you just made it up. But
- Speaker #2
I'll take your brownie for it. Don't bring me down, Norm. I'm trying to earn brownie points for Gracie so that she's always happy to see me. And I don't want to disappoint.
- Speaker #1
Are we having a cat fight? Meow.
- Speaker #2
Meow? Meow? Let's just bring her on. All right. This place is my job.
- Speaker #1
Stand back.
- Speaker #2
Every button. Not that button, Norm. The other button. The other button. That one? That one.
- Speaker #1
Great.
- Speaker #2
Now the place looks a lot better, Norm. This is so much better now. How you doing, Gracie?
- Speaker #0
Doing good. How are you guys doing?
- Speaker #2
We're live and kicking. Still. Still.
- Speaker #1
Well,
- Speaker #2
they say every day above ground is a good day.
- Speaker #0
That's what people say.
- Speaker #1
Especially now.
- Speaker #2
So how's life been treating you?
- Speaker #0
Life is good. Staying busy. It's really, really hot now that it's summer. So I am potentially looking forward to Tampa. I've been talking about... wanting to go to the beach. So that is hopefully something I can look forward to.
- Speaker #2
And well, we're doing it in November, so the weather's still good. But you were on the last trip last time that we, how was that? Did you have a good time? I know you were like, I don't know, train ride. That's what like old people do. But at the end of the day, I think you really enjoyed it, right?
- Speaker #0
We turned the train into a party.
- Speaker #2
It was beautiful.
- Speaker #0
It was. Probably somewhere that I never would have gone by myself. So the people were great. I love the size of it. It wasn't so big that you couldn't talk to everyone. I feel like I had time to get to know people who were there on a deeper level. And I do feel like there were some good mix of fun and partying and cigar and all that good stuff, but also good learning and education and real conversations. You know, I definitely got closer to some people and made new friends on the trip. So I want to say I regretted it, but I don't.
- Speaker #1
But that's the point of it. You know, when we did the F1, not everybody's into F1. When we were doing the Rockies, not everybody's into that. And now same thing with the cigars. You might want to just come and hang out. Oh, you know what, Ramat? I know we'll get into the influencers in a second. But one of the things that I remember about that trip. is trying to get Kevin to come with me and go outside. The first night we got to Banff and there was a grizzly bear outside or something like that. And they were warning us. You can't go out there.
- Speaker #2
There's a bear rolling around outside the hotel. So we all, we didn't get cigars that night. We had to come in. We just sat in that one little library or something. It's like a kind of lounge library thing and just shot the shot. Shot the, you know, the beep. Yeah, for a little while. But, yeah, that was cool. So speaking of influence, you have a lot of influence when it comes to some social media. So how did you you went to school for marketing, right? You graduated with a marketing degree, and then I know you worked for someone. Walk us through how Gracie evolved from a marketing degree to becoming one of the better-known and top influencers, creators in the e-com space?
- Speaker #0
Sure. Yeah. So I went to school for a mix of psychology and business. So at the time, I wasn't sure what direction that would take me, but all I knew was I was really interested in the psychology of marketing. And so in hindsight, it worked out really well. But at the time, I really was interested in sales. I actually did sales straight out of college. And I feel like even if I hated the cold calling and I really hated like the culture of that kind of sales, I did learn so much about the science behind it, the tonality, how to sell something to somebody that probably doesn't know that they need something or want something. And so while it was like kind of in the trenches, I feel like I got a lot of value out of it. And then from there, it was the height of the pandemic. So mid 2020, when TikTok really started growing a lot, a lot of people just turned from just watching videos to starting to create videos in the middle of the pandemic. And from there, I unintentionally started gaining traction. I unintentionally started monetizing. I always say I never thought of myself as somebody who could make money from social media, especially back then when it was only the people with huge followings that could make money from it. But I actually learned about the affiliate side of things and linking and... driving traffic to listings later on, probably a few months into it, because I think an Amazon seller reached out and asked about it. And I'm like, what do you mean the Amazon influencer program? What is an affiliate link? So I actually learned about that later on, but within a couple months was able to kind of surpass my nine to five income. And as of 2021, went full time with it and have been ever since.
- Speaker #1
Was it only 2021?
- Speaker #2
It's only 2020. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, wow. Okay. So you came on then the BDSS virtual shortly after you kind of started blowing up. So, oh, wow. All right. That was early on. Okay. So what, what is it about, I mean, you, I know you personally outside of the business world and you're a little bit more, um, when I've been around, at least a little more shy and reserved and careful, but when you cut, you get on camera, I've seen some of your work. it's like a whole nother person. It's like you light up, you light up. It's like you light up the stage. It's like, I don't, that's part of your magic is like you really turn it on and it's not in a fake way or it's not in something like over the top way, but you have this, the just your eye expressions, your, your, the way you move your head, everything is a lot. Is that just natural for you? Is that some of what you've learned through the psychology and like you're, you're actually applying some of the psychology so that people have that empathy and that relate to you and you draw them in?
- Speaker #0
That is something that I probably learned from just being such an avid watcher of TikTok. I'm on it multiple hours a day. So I'm able to see different videos. I've seen videos with absolutely zero views and millions of views. And within studying that, I can tell when you, it kind of goes back to the tonality of sales. If you answer a sales call or you start a sales call and you're like Hey, this is Gracie from so-and-so. I'm calling about, they're gone. It's kind of like cold calling is almost like TikTok where you have the hook and you have three seconds to hook the viewer or the prospect. And if you lose them, you lose the sale. You lose the viewer. Somebody scrolls or somebody hangs up. It's very like parallel. So that kind of energy, I think is so, so clear that if you want to transfer that energy of, I'm excited about something. I'm confident about something. And I'm trying to tell you something important. Please like don't scroll away. That is the science behind it. And so if I started a video like, hey, guys, I have this product. Again, they're gone. So you have really the hook and the three seconds to make somebody care. So, yeah, that is interesting. And I am definitely more shy, quiet, reserved in person. And that is definitely true.
- Speaker #1
Oh, you still sell because I got a furry tail and I'm not a furry, but I bought it. What? That's my answer.
- Speaker #2
What? A furry tail? All I'm picturing is like something hanging off your butt right now. So I'm a little like a furry tail. What's a furry tail?
- Speaker #0
We'll have to set that up on your off hours.
- Speaker #1
Yeah, yeah. We'll talk about that later. But Gracie, is it also the colors that you're using? So I know like when I've watched. deal cheats. I can see exactly what Kevin's talking about, but you've also got this mix of colors that are blended into your set. Is that all part of it as well?
- Speaker #0
There is definitely. I mean, I'm not sitting here like I'm going to use blue and purple because they actually convert better. But blue is associated with trust and authenticity. Purple is kind of just a fun color. So I think they look well together. But I definitely noticed some things like when I wear certain colors videos do perform differently and actually an interesting thing that I learned while and when I was talking to Daryl the YouTube guy worked with MrBeast he was looking at my channel and he was like oh when you had when you dyed your hair red you actually got way more views during like that time period because you probably were looking more recognizable and that's something that I never had clocked beforehand that my hair color Like The things that I'm wearing, the colors that I'm using in my background are wearing. It made a difference, but it's a very subconscious difference to note.
- Speaker #2
Hey, Norm, you'll love this, man. I talked to a seller the other day doing 50K a month, but when I asked them what their actual profit was, they just kind of stared at me.
- Speaker #1
Are you serious? That's kind of like driving blindfolded.
- Speaker #2
Exactly, man. I told them, you got to check out Sellerboard. This cool profit tool that's built just for Amazon sellers. It tracks everything like fees, PPC, refunds, promos, even changing COGS using FIFO.
- Speaker #1
Aha, but does it do FBM shipping costs too?
- Speaker #2
Sure does. That way you can keep your quarter four chaos totally under control and know your numbers because not only does it do that, but it makes your PPC bids, it forecasts inventory, it sends review requests, and even helps you get reimbursements from Amazon.
- Speaker #1
Now that's like having a CFO in your back pocket.
- Speaker #2
You know what? It's just $15 a month. But you got to go to sellerboard.com forward slash misfits. Sellerboard.com forward slash misfits. And if you do that, they'll even throw in a free two-month trial.
- Speaker #1
So you want me to say go to sellerboard.com misfits and get your number straight before your accountant loses it?
- Speaker #2
Exactly.
- Speaker #1
All right. So the channels that you're working with right now, what are they? You're doing Amazon Live still?
- Speaker #0
A little bit. So I'm more working directly with brands for Amazon Live. And then I want to say a lot of what I'm focusing on is more so TikTok, just because I've sadly seen when I was working with TikTok directly, when TikTok shop launched back in 2023, like the summer months of 2023, I've seen the progression of the entire platform. changed so much. And now I'm kind of getting stressed realizing that we've almost missed like the golden days of TikTok. And so if you're delaying or waiting it out, like it will only get more competitive and hard for both brands and affiliates. So now I'm like, while the time is Right. Let me focus on this now because I'm seeing just within the last year and a half, it's changed so drastically that like we're almost out of the golden days. And I'm like,
- Speaker #1
you know, we, we, we talked about this year or two ago and that was Amazon live. And one of the things that got me nervous, and this could be for any creator or influencer. If you're putting all your eggs in one basket, like Amazon live, they came down. You remember when they came down and they just cut like a ton of a listers. Just like that. So your income is gone. So what about TikTok? Like, are you worried about that?
- Speaker #0
So there's like the personal worry of like, what if my account gets a violation and I get taken out of the program or banned or something? And then there's like the program itself. So obviously, we know that there was the whole talk of the TikTok ban. I don't personally believe in it. I know a lot of brands were holding back from really investing into TikTok because they were like What if it goes away in two months? Like it'll all be for nothing. But I think that is a scared mindset. I don't think that should be holding you back from really utilizing the platform. But then there's always the whole, like what if my personal account gets banned for something, a violation or something? That's always a fear. I've seen multiple affiliates have multiple affiliate accounts. And as time passes, it's like easier to start an affiliate account. Like people can have between 1,000 and 5,000 followers and then basically get access to being a TikTok affiliate. So it's always a fear, but it's just one of those things. The more educated you are about not doing something wrong, the better off you'll be. And then of course, making connections for people who can help if you're ever in that situation is useful too.
- Speaker #2
What's the difference in an affiliate, a creator, and an influencer? A lot of people kind of use those interchangeably, but in some ways they have different meanings too. So can you explain that to people that are listening?
- Speaker #0
I love this question. There's so much overlap, but I do believe that all three things are somewhat different. So affiliate is somebody who is basically promoting something from a company. They're being the affiliate of a service or product. So this has nothing to do with influence or following. This could be like a blogger. This could be a website. This could be anybody who's making a little cut of commission from selling somebody else's product. That's an affiliate. Then creator, kind of interchangeable with influencer. A creator could be somebody with zero followers that just creates content, makes videos, live streams, whatever. That's just a creator. And then an influencer is somebody hopefully with influence. This is more so with like follower count, you know, follower loyalty, somebody who says do this and their followers go, sounds good. And so that's why they're a little bit different. An influencer is both a creator and an affiliate. it. An influencer is also a creator, of course, if they're using video or content to be the influencer. So there's definitely a mix, but all three are a bit different to me.
- Speaker #1
So since you're talking about the definitions of these three, what about the definitions of the type of influencer there is like from macro all the way up to celebrity, you want to get into that a bit?
- Speaker #0
Sure. So I love this, this because right now I feel like is the era of small content. creators, people just getting started, micro influencers. I had always been a big proponent of telling brands don't work with big influencers, work with the smaller influencers for so many reasons. So of course, typically with the general theme, there's like micro, nano, there's like mid-size, mid-tier, and then there's mega macro celebrity type of, and this is just based on follower count. Typically that's associated with how much they charge. how many impressions and engagements they get, how much they can actually sell. But more so recently, it doesn't really correlate anymore. Somebody with 2,000 followers and zero quote unquote influence can sell out a product and the macro influencer with a million followers gets like 1,000 views and no sales. So more than ever, it doesn't really matter the follower count anymore. And now I'm seeing this on not only TikTok, but also Instagram, Shorts, Reels, all those other platforms too.
- Speaker #2
So that one with a million that might get a thousand views, is that because their channel is so mixed where they're promoting a weight loss supplement one day and then dog food the next day and something else? And so the algorithm gets confused on who to show it to versus the smaller 2,000. They're like dialed in on a specific niche. And so it just, and is it the niche people? just have a better quality audience because that's why their niche is it's more doubt it's more zeroed in on a very specific avatar type of thing or what what's what is what causes that
- Speaker #0
So I think it's not necessarily always about like how niched down you are or the algorithm. I think everyone, especially on these platform is kind of on an even playing field. Like for example, somebody with little followers can get 5 million views. The big influencer can also get 5 million views, but like it's less guaranteed, especially if you're talking about a product or trying to sell something. So sometimes the micro influencers almost come across like more real. They're not sitting there with like a perfect camera setup and perfect lighting and like totally on for the camera. That's no longer what's selling. So sometimes like the more unpolished, crappier looking content almost comes across more authentic of like, oh, this person is literally just sharing a product they like instead of like a bigger influencer with like probably more experience, knowledge and a better setup is coming across more polished but salesy.
- Speaker #2
I've noticed that there's an influencer, Abby something. It's a girl in New York. Abby, what's her last name? On TikTok. And I somehow stumbled across her because I mentioned the word dachshund to Norm that I'm getting a mini dachshund. So TikTok starts showing me dachshund videos. And it's this girl getting on a plane from New York to go to your hometown of Atlanta or area of Atlanta and pick up a dachshund and fly a little eight week old puppy and fly back with it. And she was a she was a cute little girl. Not but But what she's done, though, is she's doing a mix of stuff. She's obviously doing an influencer. She just flew to Korea to do something over there. But she shows her life, and she'll show in makeup, not in makeup, glammed up, not glammed up, good lighting, not good lighting, walking down the street, like going into the coffee shop, doing different things with her dog or different things with her girlfriends. And she doesn't show the people too much. It's mostly about her and her dog. but it's a mix. And I think that's a style. I don't know if you're seeing this now where a lot of people are, it's almost like a day in the life and you feel like you're getting to know this person and it's much more authentic than everything is glammed up or tightly controlled. And she'll drop something sometimes and she'll, she's clearly editing it, but she'll leave something in just to make it look like it's that. Are you seeing more of that type of content resonating out there?
- Speaker #0
So that exactly is what I call the girl. who she is, she is the niche. The only thing that is consistent in her content is that it's about her life, her style, the things that she uses every day. And that is the best way to build that community of loyal followers. If you're like one day, it's this product, the next product, different products, that's fine. But then the central theme of it is like the product. So if they don't like the product, they don't care for the video. But here, the girl that you're talking about, if it's about her, people are watching. for her. So she could be using anything in the world and people can't because it's her.
- Speaker #2
She mixes it in. She's not always shilling products. It's like subtly. It's like almost product placement. Like she's doing her makeup and she'd do a few things and then the third thing that she picks up, oh, I love this e.l.f. whatever, blah, blah, blah. It's so great. And then puts it down. Doesn't talk anything else about it.
- Speaker #0
That's the best way to do it. It's the most organic. Like she's genuinely using it because she uses it. Not like this is a and then I It's not product focused. It's her focus. And if people like her, they'll listen to the stuff she's using and what she's talking about. So it's a great.
- Speaker #1
I guess what Kevin was describing with light, without light, dropping things, crappy, polished. That's it sounds like it's very similar to social media content where you got to mix it up. I'll have some motivational quotes. I'll have some nice images, but just in a video format is. Would you agree with that?
- Speaker #0
Yeah, it's always best to mix it up, but still have a common thing of why people are watching you. So it's totally fine to be like, here's what I drink for coffee. Here's my workout. Here's the makeup I'm using. Here's my dog. But at the same time, she's still the central theme between all these things. And the product placement, like organically, I think that is what's working the best. Because the more you focus on like one product, one thing, when you're not at the it.
- Speaker #2
highlight of the video it really depends on what the product is and if the product's not good doesn't matter so she she had some of it she didn't even mention like she has this little miniature dachshund but she has this really nice kennel i've never seen a kennel that's this nice and i i looking at like she never mentioned like what the brand name is or anything but i'm like looking at going that's pretty cool uh and someone probably gave this to her it's probably a placement thing or whatever, but I went and tried to find it. And then now I'm getting retargeted with that kennel and I'll probably end up buying one of these little, it looks like furniture. It doesn't look like a metal cage. Yeah. And so there's. That, I think, is powerful. And I looked her up. She's got like 1.7 million followers. I'm like, oh, I had no idea. Because if she doesn't come across as one of these ego people or something like some of them do. But so from when brands approach you to actually have you push their stuff. I know you used to have when you're doing the deal days, there's a special package and stuff. But you've kind of evolved a little bit from there. And I saw you firsthand. uh, last Christmas, someone that wants you to, to, uh, to do, to do stuff for them. And you're like, no. Um, and they were, they were pushing really, really hard. And, and you're like, no, it's just not what you have. It's not right. This is not going to fit. And you were honest to them. Um, so what, what is it that works for you? Like when brands come to you, what do you like to see number one? And what is it that actually works and what do you, what doesn't work for you?
- Speaker #0
Yeah, you're right. I've been through a time where I was so excited about working with brands that I probably took on brands that didn't really make sense for me. I didn't necessarily love their product. I was forced to say things about their product that I probably wouldn't say otherwise. So especially with that, and I know what you're talking about, they have amazing products, but I think their strategy was a little bit not what I would have suggested that they do. They were more focusing on using like one larger influencer and putting all their eggs in that basket When my strategy would probably have been to spread it out with smaller influencers and get more impact in sales that way with the brand awareness mixed with a bunch of other things, getting more content out. So it wasn't that the product was bad, but in that sense, I am a lot more picky with the brands that I work with. If I say yes to a brand and I'm not into their product, I don't believe in it. That's going to come across in my video. I'm going to be talking like a robot. and not going to be authentic about it. I can't look at the camera in the eye and say, love this product, dude. It's great. It comes across inauthentic. And I think when you are building a following, they can see that over time and they can see like, oh, this girl doesn't like this product. And she's being saying all these talking points. And that means she's going to say false things about other products just to sell it or because a brand paid her to.
- Speaker #2
So there's no trust, no trust.
- Speaker #0
Oh, it's the voice. And yeah, it's trust that you build with followers that like, I'm going to say no to things that I don't really believe in. And I don't think it's a good thing that I would recommend to you. That trust is what's going to build a following over time.
- Speaker #1
But it's also you got to learn when to say no, you can't take it, you know, just because you want money. But the other thing, and I remember that conversation, you stood your ground and good for you.
- Speaker #2
And you did a good job. You did a good job.
- Speaker #1
But
- Speaker #0
And I love the people who work there.
- Speaker #2
No, they're good people. They're good people.
- Speaker #1
Yeah. But one of the things, this comes across, and Kevin and I see this a lot as well, we'll work on a presentation. We'll get it done. We know, just like you, we know what it takes for this brand to move the mark. And then you go to the presentation, just like you, and you say, this is what you need to do. And then they come back after you've laid it all out. Hours worth of work. And they come back and say, I hear what you're saying.
- Speaker #0
But, and soon as I hear that, they're no longer a client. It's like, you're not listening to me. Correct. You know, and that's something that you were able to do during that conversation, which was, you know, very, very good. Thank you.
- Speaker #1
Thank you. That's totally true. If they're not going to listen to your expertise and your insights, and they want to do it their way, and it's not your way, then it's not a good fit. And as a people pleaser, I'm slowly but surely learning that in this industry. I did not even know for the longest time. And I learned my lesson the hard way. And now I'm trying to practice it more. It's hard.
- Speaker #2
How do you cut through the clutter? I mean, I can only imagine as an influencer, especially if you got someone like you has good following and good engagement. You just have to be inundated from the creator center, from agencies, from people DM you just left and right. How do you? handle that? Does someone go through that for you and screen them out? Or do you look for certain catchphrases or like only things that you want? Or do you go seek out people like the ones, the brands that you're using? You're like, hey, by the way, I'd love to help you guys out. Walk me through that because that's just got to be a headache sometimes.
- Speaker #1
It sure is. It leads to a lot of unanswered emails and messages. So that's not the best advice I can give, but I do suggest like once you get to that point, point of being bombarded with things that it's either too overwhelming, it's too tiresome of a task where you're spending half your time just scrolling through emails, kind of just trying to see what's worth your time and what's not. I think that's a good point in time to get a talent agency, talent manager, where they are literally just monitoring your inbox, responding to the brands that make sense for you or have the requirements that you're looking for and literally just going through that and filtering it for you because one it's overwhelming to wake up to a hundred emails every day and know that you're having to spend six hours a day going through everything and that's taking time away from what you can do aka creating the content doing what you do as a video creator so if you're ever getting to that point you don't have to have a talent manager but you could have like a va or like somebody to help you do that So you're not spending all your time and energy because not only is it time, it's a lot of mental work, too. And it's a lot of keeping track. And I'm not an organized person, clearly. So, like, it's overwhelming. A lot of things were missed. Payments were missed. Like, everything was in shambles. And so until that part was cleared up and I did have somebody for that, it's overwhelming. But then, you know, like, here are the products that I'm. looking for. I'm not going to promote this random AI company. I'm looking for products that are high quality, well-known and reputable and something I can actually stand behind. Maybe I'm only working with brands with this certain amount of budget. I'm not going to respond to an email that's offering me 50 bucks and 5% commission. So once you get to that point, it's time consuming, but it's so worth it to have somebody help with that because it takes you away from doing what you do best and how you grow at the end of the day.
- Speaker #0
Now, a quick word from our sponsor, LaVonta. Hey, Kevin, tell us a little bit about it.
- Speaker #2
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- Speaker #0
So are you ready to elevate your business? Visit get.levanta.io slash misfits. That's get.levanta, L-E-V-A-N-T-A dot I-O slash misfits and book a call and you'll get up to 20% off. Levanta's gold plan today. That's get.levanta.io slash misfits. Are there any apps out there that can help a creator keep track of all of that? One of the biggest nightmares I had when I was dabbling in this is invoicing. Just keeping track of the, you know, the amount of units like, you know, $1,500. Oh, we missed that one. $500. Oh, we missed that one.
- Speaker #1
It's bad, but it's so true. Like at the time I realized it, yes, maybe I'd have to pay somebody to like scour through these emails. But at the same time, the amount of invoices that I was missing, it was way worth it, way worth it. So. Yes, it is really, really, really important to like not miss those things. I was missing deadlines. I was missing like details. I was to answer your question about the tools. There are AI tools that thank God are here now that I didn't have back in 2021. There's like email inbox organization tools. There's probably plenty of creator tools out there. I don't know one off the top of my head that does it all and does it well. But... I'm sure plenty of them would be helpful. And now there are, I don't know, a couple of email inbox, like AI softwares that I think are at the very least helpful, if not going to be like the same as a person actually going through everything. This way it can give you AI summaries. You can filter by certain things and it does make it easier, but it doesn't fully do the job yet.
- Speaker #0
What about managing expectations? I'm talking about the other side of the fence. So we've talked to a ton of brands that they're reaching out 10, 50 influencers, and they're all sad because, you know, the one influencer that responded gave them a crappy video. So let's talk about, you know, how to manage those expectations for brands. What do they need to put into it and what can they expect for output?
- Speaker #1
Yeah, that's a really good question. I had a brand recently reach out and they're like, we want to really. focus on TikTok shop targeted campaigns, but like nobody's responding. We don't know what's wrong with our outreach. So managing expectations, I think putting all your eggs in like a little basket is not the right way to go right now, especially with either way. If you're working with Amazon or TikTok, the best thing you can do is like widen the outreach, but also focus on the quality of the outreach. Like, using, like, all the things that I like talked about back in 2021 kind of still ring true. It's like, say their name instead of saying like, Hey, like your YouTube channel, but then you don't have a YouTube channel. So like right away, like I know they have no idea what my content is. They're not telling me I'm a perfect fit and they love my content. Like that's not true. They're just spamming this, this email. So if you are emailing 10 creators and only one crappy one response, email a hundred and then you'll get more responses. It's hard. You can use different softwares to widen the outreach. You can improve the copywriting of it. Shout out AI. But also another thing that I'm kind of getting picky about is I can catch chat GPT hyphens and terminally. And I know what is made with chat GPT and what isn't. So I don't know how many other people are really picky about that. but I am. And basically, AI is great. But if you are utilizing that without any kind of personalization, that's hard. Another thing that I will mention, it's like the first message, outreach message, should cover all the bases, simple to the point, and leave the creator with just one question. It's like, do you want to work with us? Yes or no? So like you should be including here's exactly what we're looking for deliverables. Here is our budget or they're asking for your rates for whatever deliverables. Here's the timeline. We want this by next week or like we're just doing a campaign this month. Samples and product given to the influencer is like very base level. Like it shouldn't be like we'll give you a unit of products in return. Like stop doing that. Like that is. The influencer needs the product to even know what they're talking about. So that should be at the very basic level. And then after I know all these details of deliverables, what they're looking for, timeline, budget, then I can be like, all right, I'm interested. Let's do it. Or I'll pass. Not a good fit. But I recently had a brand. I really love the brand. But they were like, hey, we want to work with you. What do you say? And I'm like, okay, but what do you want? okay but like What do you want to do? Like, what's your idea? What's the goal? What deliverables? Is this commission? Is it flat fee? Like, what is it? So now I'm like, there's a whole bunch of emails you're saving both sides from by just including the basics in the first outreach email.
- Speaker #2
But what about new people? I mean, new brands coming on, they don't have a GMV. Yeah. And the same for new creators or affiliates. They don't have a GMV. So a lot of people are using these tools like Yuka and some of these others. uh, Kayla dad or whatever to see like, who should I be working with? Who can actually sell? And there's a difference when someone of someone who can sell, I mean, Norman, I had a Tiffany on the, on this podcast. Uh, I don't know. Oh, If it's out now or if it was in the past one, but she's doing 21 million a year on TikTok. And she does all of her own content. Zero on Amazon. Zero presence on Amazon. 21 million a year on TikTok. And she's very good on camera and very good at turning on. So there's certain people that are good salespeople. And I think that's where a lot of influencers, you know, I said this stat before, but I think I saw it's 1.5 million people right now want to be influencers in the United States. Right. Or actually trying to be right now. And then Every 13-year-old doesn't want to be a doctor anymore. They want to be an influencer or an astronaut or whatever. They want to be an influencer. But most of these people don't make money. And so then the brands are looking like, well, who can sell? Just because you're pretty, just because you have a nice set, just because you have whatever doesn't mean you can actually sell. And so how do you find that product? They say there's product market fit, but there's also... Uh, product or goal slash creator slash influencer affiliate fit? How do you find that? And what's the best way to go about that? Or sometimes you just got to roll the dice.
- Speaker #1
So on the creator side, GMV is a great stat to look at to determine can this person sell? But here's a perspective that they probably haven't considered. That person's GMV, depending on the creator, that person's GMV potentially might all be from one. performing video and 99% of their other videos have generated zero. So the better indicator is to look at a creator's actual content. Is, is it high quality? Is it somebody that you want representing your brand? Or is it like in a dark corner, muffled sound, they're doing everything, but talking about the product, but the product is linked. So like the quality of the video is much more important than overall GMB. And also seeing like, is the GMB like across multiple videos? Is it every time they post a video, they sell something? Or did they have one mega viral video where 99% of this GMB came from? So just because they have one viral video, which can absolutely happen to any creator doesn't necessarily mean that they can sell your product and it's a great fit. So that's something to consider as well.
- Speaker #0
What about different commission structures. So, you know, some people just think, oh, I'll give them a flat commission. We hear on Amazon, the brand referrals, you get that 10 points. But can you tell us about some of the ones that are working now, some of the unique ones that creators are using?
- Speaker #1
So on TikTok shop, I would say very bare minimum commission is 10%, 15%. When you're getting, and creators can also filter by commission amount, like 30% or over. And then they have different levels that they can filter by. So if you're on TikTok shop, very base, 10%. That also goes for like other sites like Creator Connections on Amazon. Basic is 10%. But then on TikTok, I also seen the brands be like, you get a 5% extra bonus if you do a live stream with the product or like the goalie strategy where they're like, if you make this much GMV. then we will give you a $500 bonus or an iPhone, AirPods, Lamborghini, trip to Italy, whatever it is. So there's different ways to still motivate them to make more content, sell more without necessarily direct money out of the brand's budget. So I've seen commission rates on both TikTok and Amazon upwards of 50%. Totally know most brands can't do that. But then you can also offer like five to 10% bonuses or GMV bonuses. or even mix a flat fee with a commission basis. So that works really, really well. And the flat fees are typically small, like $50 to $200 for a video or pieces of content, plus 10%. Or of course, a big thing going on right now is retainer deals. So I'll pay you $500 this month for five to 10 videos instead of one piece of content per creator. So yeah, if a brand finds a creator and they're selling well and they love the content and it was a good partnership, why would you move on to a brand new creator and start over? Just take that creator and be like, I would love to work with you more. Here's a slightly higher, higher, uh, flat fee. Here is a slightly higher commission. Let's do five or 10 videos this month and see how it goes. Because also that creator's audience is getting more touch points. They're getting more experience. And also they can hopefully feature the product more organically. they can say day five of using this product oh i've seen them use it before they must really like it so there's different strategies with it and um i used to be a huge hater of commission only i thought it wasn't fair until these commissions started really going up and people were making huge amounts of money so now i'm like big fan of commission
- Speaker #2
I think that's a barrier a lot of brands mess is, like you just said, they go up to like 50% on the high end. I think they should go up to 100%. It depends on... No, they can. They actually can. They just don't think of it right. I mean, just think about from the Amazon world where people are doing search, find, buy. And they're going out and they're paying a service, you know, refund, you know, like one of the refund services or one of those services. $15, $20 to actually just for the placement. Then they're paying, the person would go buy the product and they would get some of that money back because of the margins in the product, but they lose some of it. But they're still paying quite a bit of money and they're launching a product. So if someone is launching a brand new product, look at what, like you said, Goalie's doing. They're going to win a million dollars at the top. And you do a million dollars in GMV, they give you a million dollars cash. That's 100%. and you got to get there and it's not just for everybody, but that's going to motivate some people. And I think brands need to, and I wouldn't do this all the time, but I would do periods for like a launch period. But social media is discovery and you're trying to, and I know the halo effect can be, if set up properly, can be 60 to 70% on Amazon alone. And so if you're, that's, and you don't have to give any discounts. You don't have any A costs. You don't have anything. Do your numbers and apply that there and give a damn 100%. and then go out and make a game out of it like goalies doing and gamify it. And you could crush if you do this right. But a lot of these guys, they don't know how to approach them. And I look at Norm and I saw the Snow Whitening guys at a conference last year, and he was breaking down how he does it. And he has an affiliate army, and I think it was like 50 people. And there's people that come and go from that army, and they add a little bit, and somebody moves on. But that's basically their core group that they go to. and I remember in the days of when I was doing a lot of shooting, a lot of models with Mark, our number one recruiting mechanism wasn't us going and emailing or calling or going to some show or something to try to find another pretty model. It was her friends. It was her people. I don't think a lot of people don't utilize the network a lot of these creators have of other people like them, where if you treat one of them exceptionally well, if someone was... If I just hired you, Gracie, and I said, thank you so much for promoting my dog bed or whatever it is, I appreciate that. I'm sending you a couple extra just so you can give to your mom and your sister because I saw on social media that your sister also has a dog, so I want to take care of them. And then I sent you every month for three months, I found out that your dog likes duck treats, duck feet. I sent you some duck feet. And I treat you like a human, like a... part of the team, like someone that I care about. And then maybe at some point I bring you to on a trip or, Hey, 20 of us are getting together in Miami. Do you want to come down? You know, we'll cover your hotel and airfare and just come hang, whatever it is, treat them like they want to be treated. And then you're going to go, Kevin and the norms company is so freaking amazing. And you're going to meet somebody else that's crushing it. And you're like, you should work for them. Cause you might not, you probably won't see them as competition or two different, you know, two different markets. That's, I think, an opportunity that very, very few people are looking at from this. They're just looking at dollars and cents on a piece of paper. And it's a massive mistake. And I think that Norm and I have Dragonfish, and it basically combines three things. It's marketplaces, AI, and social commerce. Those three are the future. And combine those together, and that's what's going to rock. But you've got to do it right. So what are your thoughts on what I just espoused there?
- Speaker #1
I think... if any brand thinks that treating an influencer or a creator well, and they're not just like, so many, I mean, most, most deals or partnerships do feel like you're just another, like one of a million or like just dollars and cents on paper. So I can name on one hand and probably with three fingers, the amount of brands that have actually treated me well with, you know, keeping me in the loop with like sending whatever product I'm interested in and trying, and then I can organically implement that into whatever I'm doing or somebody who's like kept in touch with me after a successful collaboration. And even people with like the TikTok shop affiliate opportunity, I'm seeing people like I made this much money. So I got my sister and my mom started on it. Like that absolutely makes a difference because if you're treating one person, right, everyone has a network. Everyone has family and friends. Like these are like-minded people to them. So you're right. If you're treating them well, if you're offering them product, if you're treating them more than just like one of a million names, that absolutely makes a difference. And as creators, if you're in the space, I know plenty of other creators. I know who does well. I know who doesn't do well. And I'm happy to recommend them as well if I love the brand. So...
- Speaker #2
Which cuts through all the clutter and all these email problems and all this. I mean, it takes a while to build this up.
- Speaker #1
It's a relationship.
- Speaker #2
Yeah. And I would even go so far as if I have a makeup line and you're using part of the makeup line and promoting us, but you just don't like our lipstick. You like some other brand's lipstick. I would actually send you that lipstick and say, I know you don't like ours. Here's just I wanted to make sure you're happy. Here's the lipstick that you prefer. I'd send you a supply of it. Just little things that you bet. because that's the norm no it's not and that's how yes it is that's the norm over there this is the king that's the norm so yeah that's i think that's where we're going to have to get to to stand out yeah and where the the brands are going to really win and i'm seeing a few big brands actually they're having they have have a brand uh well they could not brand ambassador they have a brand coordinator or a But actually, this girl, Tiffany, I think she has in her company, like one person, their sole job is brand relationship. It's not go hustle them and go see how much you can squeeze them for, see what they'll promote for free or for a discount. It's like take care of them. Yeah. And whatever you got to do, do it because this is our bread and butter. And I think that's what too many people are not willing to play that game.
- Speaker #1
Correct. So many times, 99% of the time. You're treated like a tool, like a means to make money. If you don't make them a certain amount of ROI, you're worthless and useless and nothing to them. So like I said, it's very, very, very rare that a brand approaches influencers or creators with this mindset. Because once you find a good one and you develop that long-term relationship, that one relationship with one good creator can trump like 50 random influencers. So you're right. Like at the end of the day, you're dealing with people. You're creating hopefully long-term relationships and treating each other well is the very basics of it all.
- Speaker #0
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- Speaker #2
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- Speaker #0
They've helped up-and-coming brands like Magic Spoon compete with Cheerios for top category positioning, while also helping Fortune 500 brands like Unilever launch their new products.
- Speaker #2
Right now is one of the best times to get started with Stack Influence. You can sign up at stackinfluence.com or click the link in this video down in the description or notes below and mention Misfits, that's M-I-S-F-I-T-S, to get 10% off your first campaign. Stackinfluence.com. I would even go so far as like the example you gave earlier, but look at that GMV. Maybe one of their things went viral and their other videos aren't so good. I know it's a numbers game. Maybe they did have one go viral and that's most of their GMV and they're putting out other stuff and it's just not working. But eventually something's going to work again. And I would not just cut them. I would. It's part of my budget. It's part of like, okay, they get samples. You know, that's just part of our cost of goods sold as a 4% thing or whatever the number is that just like an advertising cost that we just absorb it. And we send out to them because I know even if they don't ever hit it again, there's someone in their neighborhood or someone at the soccer game with the kids or something is going to want that. Or want to do something like, oh, you should try these guys. And maybe they're the ones that's going to hit. And you just let it. feed itself rather than all these people who are struggling, sending out thousands and thousands of emails just to deaf ears.
- Speaker #1
Correct. I agree with you.
- Speaker #0
Yeah. One of the other things though, along the same line, heavy discounts for recurring products. If it's a one-off, okay, that might be something to think about maybe during a launch. But if it's a beauty product and you're going to buy it or supplement every 30 days, why not give away a much higher or even 100% of the product the first time around.
- Speaker #1
That's very true. I mean, plenty of the things that I use every day are repurchases. So it definitely makes sense to discount the second purchase. I think that's a huge subscribe and save benefit. Yeah, and a lot of times if you're giving out the first product for free and just letting people discover it and they fall in love. And so many times I look at the product I use every day and those are the things that I gift to my friends or like buy for... Christmas and like really recommend to people and like you know girls talk this is like a girl thing but like girls talk they're like oh what makeup are you wearing where'd you get that shirt it's so it's so like organic to like take inspiration from like other people in your life both online and in person so yeah this the whole world word of mouth is the most powerful way of showing somebody else a possible product to buy.
- Speaker #2
I don't ask Norm where he got his shirt, but I say, Norm, where'd you get that cigar? Where'd you get that cigar? I want one of those.
- Speaker #0
I'm always curious about your thongs, though, Kevin. They're very creative.
- Speaker #2
I do keep my shorts a little lower just for you.
- Speaker #0
Those whale tails, yeah.
- Speaker #2
So, Gracie, as a creator-influencer affiliate, I don't think a lot of people understand how much work this is. I mean, yeah, you get better at CapCut or whatever tool you're using in Premiere or whatever. And over time, you can shorten that window down of the editing. But how much time it takes to actually sit there and whether you come up with a script or they're sending you some talking points or whatever, and then whichever way you like it, and then you're having to film it and get creative and like, what am I going to do with this? And then edit it and then put it out and then do a series of them. A lot of people don't realize the amount of. work and effort that that takes. And you're just as disappointed when it gets seven views as the as the product person to whether you're getting a flat fee or not. So what can you explain so people understand what this what kind of work this really is?
- Speaker #1
The most outdated mentality is like, oh, making a 30 second video is so easy. Okay, do it then. So it first of all, yesterday, I was making a live stream and just the setting up of the live streaming, adding the products, adding the backdrop, setting up the lighting. That within itself was like an hour. But when we're talking about videos, a lot of it is not only planning and setting up, but a lot of it is like strategy. And then you have the editing and then like the posting and repurposing. So it's very much a process to do. And a lot of it is, it's funny when somebody is filming a video and then you see the behind the scenes. they might say the same thing 10 times in different tonalities, in different ways, different speed, different like look and emotion. So then in the editing process, you're like picking one of the 10 of what is the best way that I said the same thing. So that's just one part of it. But I think like the planning and the strategy is so underappreciated of how it can make a break or a video. The things that I'm thinking about is like the lighting. the setup, what I'm wearing, how I'm going to phrase this, the hook, as much as it looks like somebody is just off the top of their head, setting their phone down and just speaking. It's never that simple. So yeah, from the outside, it probably does look that simple, but there is a whole slew of things. It could be like a day's work to make one single video. That probably isn't the most efficient thing to do, but it absolutely is the way some videos have gone. So Um, I, it's, it's not, it's upsetting when a brand is like, oh, why can't you do this for free? It's just a little video, not knowing what goes behind it. I can tell you've never made videos before. And it's, it's not the nicest thing to like be discredited of something that is such hard work. And so it's not only just like the actions of doing it, it's a lot of strategy and consideration and then like testing as well. behind the scenes?
- Speaker #0
I think a lot of the times the onus is on the creator and they're not giving proper expectations. I've talked to a lot of different creators and the creator knows what to expect, but it's not communicated properly to the brand. So the brand thinks, oh man, I'm going to get hundreds, if not thousands of sales and they don't know. And they don't know this is over time and you're building a relationship with the creator. But I think there's got to be, with a lot of different creators too, a better way to communicate really what to expect so the brand understands it. And they might go away saying, oh, you know, this is X number of dollars. I can't afford it. But at the same time, the expectations are met. Yeah.
- Speaker #1
So... With that, it's hard because even as the influencer creator,
- Speaker #0
I can almost never guarantee or promise virality, hundreds or thousands of sales. I too am hoping for the best, doing my best that I know how to do and hopes to give you the thousands of sales, but it also might. So it might not. So it's hard to, first of all, those expectations being set first and foremost is so important. If I can tell a brand is looking at me and saying like, the only way that will be. leaving this partnership happy is if you create a thousand of sales, I would rather never work with you to begin with, because I sleep better at night knowing I didn't disappoint somebody or that somebody didn't feel like they wasted their money working with me. I don't, I don't take the check and like, just ha ha, like, I'm not going to get you sales. I would rather us both leave happy and like, didn't regret working together. So setting the expectations, very important. However, we both don't know the expectations. So. If somebody is saying like, we need this many sales to be happy, I'm like, then I can be like, hey, like, let me manage the expectations a little bit. Maybe you want to work with somebody else or change the strategy a little bit. But it's hard because as much as a creator wants to sell and wants to go viral, it is also never guaranteed. So that's hard too.
- Speaker #1
That's why I think the retainer model is good because you find someone that you like that you work well with. And then you just pay them 500,000 bucks a month or whatever the number is to create X number of videos. And you may do that for five months and not much happens. But on month six, something just goes crazy. It's all paid for itself.
- Speaker #0
Yeah. Another thing with that, you can set up the partnership so that even if the sales aren't the target, you still get a lot out of it. So like for a retainer deal, like you just mentioned, you could say, hey, I want ownership of the content. So even if you're getting like a minuscule sales, you still have so much content at the end of the particular end of the partnership that you can then as the brand, you use it on your own socials boosted with
- Speaker #1
Amazon inspire, right?
- Speaker #0
Yeah. Uh,
- Speaker #1
that's gone. It's gone.
- Speaker #2
When you're setting up for that one video or whatever it is, are you targeting? a specific look for TikTok or Amazon Live? That's a little different. Instagram, any of these? Are you making more than one format?
- Speaker #0
The best way that I've planned it out myself to make the most out of one piece of content is to do TikTok style. So like frame it in the style of TikTok and it will perform well on every other platform. If you do different kinds of styles, like let's say like I do real style that doesn't perform on TikTok. If I do YouTube short style, it doesn't perform on other platforms. If I do like a clip of a live stream, like maybe clip 30 seconds of it, that might be interesting, but it's still not going to be performing on TikTok. And also TikTok is the best top of funnel. So after considering like, okay, what is the best bang for my time? TikTok style repurpose on every other shorts platform. So yeah. It's interesting how even Reels have like a slightly different feel. It could be a 30 second short form vertical video, but it still has a different feel. Reels are a little bit more aesthetic. They're a little bit more tutorial how to instead of like TikTok messy, just like you're in bed, no makeup, like hair bonnet on and you're just like speaking into the void. That will not perform on Instagram Reels because it has a different look and a different vibe. So does Shorts. So does LinkedIn videos. So does every other platform. So I say TikTok style and then repurpose onto everything else.
- Speaker #1
Do you do homework on your clients? So the client sends you like, hey, I've got this product. I want you to promote it. Here's a couple of bullet points. I'm sure some brands might give you a whole dossier and like break it all down. But do you go and like, all right, I want to make this work because I got some skin in the game here with my commission. I need to figure out who their avatar is. I'm going to go use an AI tool to download all their other videos, see which ones have been working, which hooks have been working, see what hooks in this industry have been working using some other AI tools. All right, now I've got a plan. I'm going to do my video, and this is going to really give it a chance at success. Do you do anything along those lines at all? Because I know most influencers or creators don't.
- Speaker #0
Absolutely. So many times, not so many times. but like there have been times where I've said yes to something, just like agreed to something before doing the research and then found that like, Oh, like they have really bad reviews on Amazon. Maybe they're low stock. Maybe their listing looks like crap. And then I'm driving my traffic there. So this is a disservice on both sides. I'm driving traffic to a listing. That's not going to convert. And then the. The brand doesn't get the sales they want. So I have to do so much due diligence now of like, what does the listing look like? Reviews, photos, does it have enough stock even? And then on top of that, I'm also looking up their brand of what other creators and what other videos are out there on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, whatever it may be. And I'm also using that not only for like research about the brand to see like. how can I frame this? What's the best thing to do? But like research on how to make my hooks, how like, what's the aspect of this product that actually sells? I was talking about like mouth tape the other day with somebody and they're like, I don't understand why mouth tape went viral. I can pinpoint and tell you exactly what the selling points of that mouth tape is that actually made people buy it. And no, it wasn't about better sleep. So even there's a product in it might have like a very obvious selling point that might not be what's selling the product. So. This is all stuff I have to consider before saying yes to something because saying yes prematurely has bit me in the butt before.
- Speaker #1
They call that psychology, right? I think that's something that you might have taken a look at or been interested in. Something, I can never spell the word, but I think they pronounce it psychology. Physiology. Just real quick before we wrap up, what's your opinion on AI influencers? The AI where you have. AI generated UGC content and you have some of these tools. It was pretty janky for a while. It's getting better and better and better. What do you see the future where you can take Gracie and have Gracie AI that's doing a lot of this stuff and most people won't be able to tell a difference?
- Speaker #0
This is interesting. Gosh, Kevin, I want to pick your brain about Google VO3 because I've been absolutely baffled by those videos. But in terms of AI influencers, I've actually seen one brand do extremely well with it. They use AI kind of like green screen, but with an AI person. And he looks like he's maybe like a news anchor, like maybe a doctor selling a supplement. I don't know about the ethics of that. But have I seen it work? Yes. But not in the traditional way that people have thought that AI influencers would work. You can kind of tell. It's very, very... obvious to tell when you're using an AI influencer in a certain way, when they're like speaking directly to the camera. I know that there's an account on TikTok that their whole spiel is just an AI person sitting in the car and they're going, and like, it's like, oh, I didn't know that this product was on sale today. And like, that's like the whole video and they've gone viral plenty of times, probably made a bunch of money. I have heard also the opinion that Things are swaying so AI that will like sway back to wanting human authenticity and like how AI can never really fully be as human as humans humans want. So have I seen it work in specific situations? Yes. Do I think you can just make an avatar and sell something out without really like perfecting it? No. Could we get there? Maybe.
- Speaker #1
I think it's coming. It's moving along. It's still like you said, like, oh, but there's. There's tools now that will look at all your videos that you've done, or you can sit down for three hours and go through it, but it'll look at all your manuals. You just put your hand through your hair a minute ago, and then you did this. All your movements, it will capture them all and encapsulate them. And they're all your mouth movements, all your eye, your eye, everything. And I agree with you that I think that's going to be a great tool to use for testing. Yeah. And so I think where that's going to come in is if I want to test 100 different positioning statements. or a hundred different hooks or whatever. I'm going to take that and I'm going to put that out there, a hundred of them and put a little bit of money behind them on Meadow or on TikTok or wherever it is, because TikTok's going much less organic now. I'm much more paid. They're making that transition. So, and figuring out, okay, these are the three that worked. You could figure that out in two or three days with $10, $20 per thing. And then coming back to, for that authenticity and saying, oh, Gracie, look, we just tested all this stuff. These are the three that worked. I don't expect you to do exactly what this video did, but these are the hooks that work. This is the stuff now, now make it you. And I think that's going to be a super powerful thing that the smart influencers like Mr. Beast, and he's already doing some of this, or Diary of a CEO, or some of those guys that are doing some of this in the podcasting world too, it can be massively beneficial.
- Speaker #0
Yeah, definitely. It's not as simple as people have made AI influence out to be, but I think with the testing. And with the combination of like doing stuff, like mixing in certain clips or like doing something a certain way, it does work. It can work. I've seen it, but it's not as simple as like, let me just generate an avatar, make them say some random AI script and like sell out. so yeah yeah it's coming it's coming and it's coming quickly probably faster than we all think another thing it's kind of scary is like the ai chat bots with like you know let's say like some famous person that you want to talk to they'll have like an ai chat bot that has learned their personality character.ai do it on meta and like i can make through instagram my own chat fake AI person. And that's interesting, too, to see if I know people are making money with that for people who like want to pay to chat to somebody, but that'll be interesting too.
- Speaker #1
Hey, Kevin King and Norm Farrar here. If you've been enjoying this episode of Marketing Misfits, thanks for listening this far. Continue listening. We've got some more valuable stuff coming up. Be sure to hit that subscribe button if you're listening to this on your favorite podcast player, or if you're watching this on YouTube or Spotify, make sure you subscribe to our channel because you don't want to miss a single episode. the marketing misfits. Have you subscribed yet, Norm?
- Speaker #2
Well, this is an old guy alert. Should I subscribe to my own podcast?
- Speaker #1
Yeah, but what if you forget to show up one time? It's just me on here. You're not going to know what I say.
- Speaker #2
I'll buy you a beard and you can sit in my chair too. You can go back and forth with one another.
- Speaker #0
Yikes.
- Speaker #2
But that being said, don't forget to subscribe, share it. Oh, and if you really like this content, Somewhere up there, there's a banner. Click on it and you'll go to another episode of the Marketing Misfits.
- Speaker #1
Make sure you don't miss a single episode because you don't want to be like Norm.
- Speaker #2
Oh, all right. We are at the top of the hour. And Gracie. Yes. At the end of every podcast, we always have one question for our misfit. Do you know a misfit?
- Speaker #0
I do. And I did research as to like, has this person been on the podcast? Have they been on? So I found one person and I think it's valuable because it kind of ties into what we talked about today. And we all know him. It's Bradley Sutton. But I think I'm saying this because I know that he's working on some like really good tools that would be really, really useful for sellers, especially with like implementing TikTok and like discovering influencers. I think They're working on some cool stuff. Like, for example, understanding that TikTok is a product discovery platform. And still there's a huge amount of people that are discovering on TikTok but buying on Amazon. And we haven't been able to track that accurately, like the halo effect up until now. Hopefully he's working on something like that. And, like, that would be really cool if there's a tool that can do that.
- Speaker #2
All right. Well, we will reach out to him. So how do people get a hold of you? Before you go.
- Speaker #1
What do they send the check if they want to hire you? Right.
- Speaker #0
I'll get my check if anyone's interested. No. My email is contact at dealcheats.com. My socials are dealcheats on all platforms. And yeah, that's it if you need me.
- Speaker #2
Fantastic. Okay.
- Speaker #1
Appreciate it, Gracie. Thanks. It's awesome to see you. Awesome chat. I even let Norm ask more than one question.
- Speaker #0
I know. You're giving him more leeway, huh?
- Speaker #1
I'm giving him a little bit more rope. It's like he always says, how long is a piece of string? Right, Norm? Yep.
- Speaker #2
How long is a piece of string? He gave me that much more today. I felt so good. All right, Gracie. We'll see you later. Yeah.
- Speaker #1
Appreciate it.
- Speaker #2
Thanks for coming on.
- Speaker #1
That much. That much. That much. But, hey, social commerce and social media, man, it's changing rapidly, and AI is affecting it. But there's still a lot of people that aren't paying attention to it, and they just haven't gotten around to doing it. But you need to because it's whether TikTok stays or goes, it's still the power it has, if done properly, is ridiculous. And it needs to be a part of every brand's strategy. That's why it's part of one of the core things in Dragonfish that we're doing. And who knows, Gracie might be helping on some of that stuff as well and her team. So pay attention to what Gracie just said. She gave some really good stuff, those of you listening, on how to deal with creators and what they're looking for and how to actually make it, give yourself a better chance of it working. Because I hear so many people, we didn't even get into it, all the software companies now that help connect, you know, the Stack Influence of Levante and those kind of people that help. influencers and product seller brands connect. And, but it's a, it's a huge industry. And it's only going to get, only going to get bigger as time goes on. But Norm, if, if, as time goes on, if people need something to listen to talk down, listen to, what do they listen to?
- Speaker #2
Well, they listen to marketingmisfits.co or the podcast marketing misfits. And they, it's on every, on every podcast platform. and we also have a YouTube. Uh, we have two YouTube channels, Kevin, we have marketing misfits podcast, and we have marketing misfits clips. And these are all the short nuggets that we extract from every podcast.
- Speaker #1
What kind of stuff they're going to hear if they go listen to what, what are some examples of stuff they're going to hear if they listen to the podcast?
- Speaker #2
Uh, usually you just,
- Speaker #1
yeah. Okay. Well, that, that's a good reason to listen. If you, if you, if you like the sound of my voice, um, uh, then they go and listen to the,
- Speaker #2
I usually say, Kevin, does. Your voice get on your nerves too, but obviously not.
- Speaker #1
Only when I hear it back and record it. That's why I never watch her or anything that we do. I'm like, nope, that's annoying. No, I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. But hey, we'll be back next Tuesday with another episode of the Marketing Misfits. We've got an awesome set of guests lined up. I was just looking at the schedule the other day. The guests are, I mean, we've always had good guests, but they just keep getting bigger and bigger and bigger as far as how well known they are. Uh, so, uh, we'll get some, got some really, uh, smart people coming up. Um, and we get smart people in the, in the archives. So go back and check out at marketingmystics.co or the YouTube channel or Apple podcast or Spotify, wherever you listen and check out some of the old episodes. There's, there's some really good, uh, gems in there.
- Speaker #2
62 under our belt.
- Speaker #1
There we go. 62. Oh, wow. That's, uh, that's almost, almost, uh, as old as you.
- Speaker #2
It is. Oh, this is when I start to go down, you know, I want to be in my 50s again.
- Speaker #1
No, no, no. The podcast is getting better. This is where, you know, things start getting better and better at, you know, at 62. That's the other way of looking at it. You just kind of frame it differently.
- Speaker #2
That's right. All right, everybody. We will see you next Tuesday. Thanks for joining us.
- Speaker #1
All right. Take care.
- Speaker #0
Hmm
