Transcription

• Speaker #0

  What if being less useful could actually make you more creative? Today's guest is going to teach you how to stop running yourself ragged to prove your worth and start to get quiet enough to hear your own creative voice and act on it. Welcome to Unleash Your Inner Creative with Lauren LaGrasso. I'm Lauren LaGrasso. I'm a three-time Webby Award-winning podcast host and producer, singer-songwriter, public speaker, and creative coach. And this show is meant to give you the tools to claim your birthright to creativity. and go after your heart's wildest dreams. Today, I'm talking with photographer and documentarian Lindsay Lerner. She's a creator of Field Notes from the Work in the Wild, a beautiful project that lives on Substack that documents people in the messy middle of making their most meaningful work. Lindsay started out as a creative coaching client with me and has since become a dear friend and creative ally. In this conversation, we talk about what it means to be less useful and just be why the messy middle is actually where the magic happens, how to stop over-functioning and start trusting, and what happens when you stop building everybody else's dream and start to finally make room for your own. We also get into creative reinvention, how to keep the faith when your path makes no sense, the power of asking for help, and how Lindsay built a body of work completely on her own terms, combining all of her creative passions. This is one for anybody who has ever confused hustle for worth or wondered if there is a more authentic, holistic way to create. The answer is yes, there is. And Lindsay can teach you how. So let's get into it. Here's my conversation with Lindsay Lerner. Lindsay Lerner, I love you so much. Welcome to Unleash Your Inner Creative. One of the most creative people I know. I'm glad you're here.

• Speaker #1

  I love you too. I'm so happy to be here.

• Speaker #0

  this journey was a long time coming. We first started out because we met on LinkedIn. Is that right?

• Speaker #1

  Yes. You know, a lot of people throw shade at LinkedIn, but I can't lie. Most of my dearest friends have come from LinkedIn in the past five years.

• Speaker #0

  And honestly, Lindsay's a bit of a LinkedIn influencer. So you might want to follow her on there so you can get your zhuzh. Like she, she inspires me to be more, more consistent and to show up. more on LinkedIn because she is just there every day grinding it out.

• Speaker #1

  I will take that. Thank you.

• Speaker #0

  But you've got a real presence on there. So we met through LinkedIn. We did like an informational call, just the two of us talking about our lives and what we do. And at the end, you're like, oh, I'd love to work with you as a creative coaching client. So you started out as my client and now we've become real life friends. I mean, it was very clear from pretty early on that like we were cut from a similar cloth definitely and that this was going to be a lifelong bond but i'm just so grateful to know you and i'm so inspired by you i mean i would always say like i would i'll give people homework to do between coaching sessions and then they'll come back and be like oh i got most of it done but i couldn't get all of it done lindsey would not only do my homework she'd do like 15 extra steps and i'm like how did a human being do like She has the output of AI, but it is all human generated.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, the nerdiness continues. I don't know if I'll ever shake that, which I think is a good thing.

• Speaker #0

  It's such a good thing because when you say you're going to do something, you do it and then some. And I think that is such an inspiring energy to be around. I guess before we go any further, where does that come from? Are you just made that way? Is it like a faith-driven thing? Is it fear-driven? What? is that like energy, endless energy for output?

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, I think in the past, it was definitely a fear driven thing now that you like articulated it in that opposition of fear versus faith. Or maybe, you know, baby Lindsay was probably just stoked on life, is stoked on life. I always had that notion of say what you mean, mean what you say. And that was how I was raised and how was brought up. And then I think as I got older into high school, college and whatnot, it was definitely more of a, to your point, a fear based overcompensation of I'm and I was always in places where I at least felt like the odd person out. I got to art school and that didn't feel right. And then I was at business school and that didn't feel right. And every place that I was in didn't quite fit in the way that it didn't feel right. And so therefore, it came from a place of, well, no matter what I do, it has to be amazing. And it has to be more than amazing. So that is just undeniable that. everything is okay. And then I would say over the last six, seven years or so of unlearning that, and now it comes from a place of, I know how well I can do, and I always want to do that, if not better, from a point of just being as good as possible as a human being.

• Speaker #0

  How have you seen a change in the way that that work is received since you've changed the foundation That it's built upon.

• Speaker #1

  That shift has been everything, especially in the last year, two years has been the most dramatic shift. And it has been a very much it was a shift from a belief of that not enoughness, that inner narrative of, oh, I don't know, it's someone's going to figure out something. And it's not enough. It's not enough. And then... a couple of years ago really was working on that, on unlearning that, on undoing that. And now coming from a place of, I trust myself and no matter what it is, that is the output, I'm confident in that. And if someone doesn't like it, then that's their problem.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. Yeah. And at least at the very least, it feels better to you. And then when you do have the success from that point of view, it feels like. more of a win because you actually attained it from a holistic place versus a place of trying to seek your worth in the thing.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I was talking to somebody about that yesterday. It was, we were just talking about, I think it was confidence was, was probably the overarching theme and it was more so thinking through it as all of the things that I want to do or that I've been dreaming up or scheming up or any and all things. in a way, have already happened. And I'm confident in that happening. And this is more of a, I'm showing up every day, I'm doing the work, but that confidence and that enoughness is fueling it rather than I must get up, I must hustle, I must do the tech bro routine at 4am before anyone else in the house gets up.

• Speaker #0

  A cold plunge. Oh, a cold plunge so hard. I wouldn't when the cold pledging thing first started becoming a real trend. I wrote, hear me out. How about we warm plunge instead?

• Speaker #1

  Seriously, seriously.

• Speaker #0

  Like I'm so happy for you if that makes such a difference in your life, but I'm pretty sure we'll all survive without plunging our bodies into subzero water. It's going to be okay.

• Speaker #1

  Truly.

• Speaker #0

  So I mean, I mean, I've only known you for like a year and a half, which is crazy because I feel like I've known you my whole life, but When we started working together, you were doing all these different things. Like I would say you were still like very much in a role of service, helping all these other people achieving their dreams or like building their own businesses and hustling, hustling, hustling. And as we started working together, kept working together, as you, you know, saw your own vision more clearly, you dropped all of these roles and like did what I was. scared when you did this. I was so proud of you and so inspired by you. I was like, this is a badass woman. Like you just like quit these jobs with reckless abandon because you knew they no longer served you. And I want to know because you were in the past, a person who was like so driven by like hustling, surviving, proving yourself. How did you get to that point where you were just like, you had this deep faith in yourself?

• Speaker #1

  If we can. Go back a little bit.

• Speaker #0

  Rewind.

• Speaker #1

  Rewind. I think the context is important. Yes. I had a, as you know, but for the audience, I had a business that I started during undergrad that ran until 2019. And that business was called Level Exchange. Level Exchange was a, originally it was a platform that match made between local bars, coffee shops, restaurants, and musicians in Rhode Island based on fair trade. principles. And then fast forward through a wild series of events. I ended up being a tour manager, had a couple of click moments, recognizing that local artists also needed, they needed content, they needed communications, they needed strategy, and ended up pivoting Level Exchange into a co-working and a production space for local artists in and around New England. And that was my, that was my baby. And even now that I have a baby, I still think of that business as a baby. And I really, I poured everything into that so much so that. due to unfortunate circumstances and a creepy investor and nine months of sexual harassment litigation, had to shut that business down. And through that, I just remember it was December of 2019 and having to write the email to all of the people that I had, who had supported me over. seven, eight years of my life who had supported, who had showed up, the musicians, the artists, the other investors. We worked with city and state government a lot. So there's a lot of local politicians, just all these people being like, hey, this is not going to exist anymore. And thinking like, well, that's it for me. It was just so much. It was Lindsay is level exchange and vice versa. And so I thought since that entity no longer existed, that it was like, well, there goes all those relationships, those people, those everything. And little by little in the weeks that followed that. I was getting calls and emails and texts with, hey, well, let me know what you're doing next. And I was like, oh, we're still here. We're still in relationship. We're doing this thing. And so that was- You love me? Right. I was like, oh, wow. All right. That's fantastic. And so just that I'm sharing that as the context of knowing what happens when you pour yourself into quote unquote, just a job, just a company, just a role, what have you. And so then fast forward to more so, I think what you're asking around the shedding of all these other identities. Once I had done it once with like the biggest thing that was of most importance, it's a lot easier. It's like any other muscle. It was a lot easier to do that. And they were all, they weren't even official, quote unquote. jobs. I was either an independent contractor or I was contracted to build a thing to whatever it was that I was doing. And they were definitely, some of them were harder conversations than others, but I knew very deep that it was the right decision.

• Speaker #0

  Okay. This is all great. So many things to break down from that. One thing is, it sounds like when you shut level exchange down, You had to go through a bit of an ego death of. Like maybe that's an understatement. But for people out there who are going through something similar, like, you know, I have someone very close to my life who dedicated their entire life to this one thing is now realizing, oh, that one thing isn't what I thought it was. It's not giving me what I thought I would get out of it. And like, I just don't feel happy. But what do I do now? Because I gave my whole life to this thing. If someone out there is listening in a stage like that, or at least seeing... I need to incorporate something else in because I've, I've made this one thing, my everything.

• Speaker #1

  Right.

• Speaker #0

  What's your advice to them and how did you heal from that experience?

• Speaker #1

  Totally. I think it's more, if you know, like you're the only, you're the only person who knows. And at the end of the day, you're the only person who is living in your body and your skin and your bones and moving through the world.

• Speaker #0

  I actually have another person living in my body right now.

• Speaker #1

  That's true. plot twist shout out to all the mothers yes they'll know too you know it'll get uncomfy in there uh i think with with that though it's it's there was like i said a deep knowing of like this is not it and also in that you know same well if you will like there is more you can dig deeper There's more to you than whatever it is that you're building or doing or whoever you think you are. There's there is more. And I'm saying that from from an expansive perspective, not a you know, you're just digging endlessly. It's like you can take up more space. You can occupy new spaces. And it's more so it was that inner digging that really started to shift that headspace for me. And obviously it did not hurt to have. a community of people who were like, oh, yes, this sucked. Yes, this hurt. We're going to grieve that. In hindsight, if I could go back, I would spend more time actually grieving that and sitting in that and being in that mud, so to speak, rather than being like, okay, my response at that time was like, well, what are we building next? And I dove right into the next thing, which was its own therapeutic adventure.

• Speaker #0

  is Sitting in the grief and moving through the grief important before the next dive.

• Speaker #1

  I think it was fully it's about fully taking stock of what transpired and what actually happened, not just. intellectually, but in your heart, in your soul, in your being. And especially at that time, there was a chasm, like head and heart. There was just a chasm between the two. And I knew intellectually everything. I can intellectualize the shit out of anything, as you know. And so that wasn't the problem because I could fake it till I made it all the way through. Whether I, I don't. I had a therapist at that point and I could bullshit my way through anything. I can say all the right things, but saying or rather knowing versus knowing and then closing the chasm between the two, that's what I think sitting in that mud actually does.

• Speaker #0

  Where are you at now with sitting in the mud?

• Speaker #1

  It's all mud, but I'm loving it now. she's a mud lady now ladies and gents we're we're rolling around in it i have a i would show you but i don't can you put that on a t-shirt it's all mud but i have a i have a tattoo i don't know if you've seen it because every time we've hung out it's been in cold weather uh but i have a of a lotus flower and it comes from the tick not on quote no mud no lotus and so that's why i got that was as a reminder of. you know, that notion of the only way out is through. And at this point, I'm speaking in bumper stickers, but they all have truth.

• Speaker #0

  They do. I remember at one point in our work together, I said the following to you, be less useful.

• Speaker #1

  Yes.

• Speaker #0

  where because you are a person of such high utility like your your company was literally called humans with siren knife like i don't know if there's anybody out there who like has more use and like ability than you where are you at in that journey with just knowing you deserve to exist and take up space and be your full creative artistic self oh

• Speaker #1

  it's amazing i i it's it's almost i've swung almost too far the other way And, you know, before we hit record, that's where I'm finding my equilibrium now is that when I met you, I had just come off. It was like, you know, 2024. 2024 was my best year in business ever. I was, to your point, crushing it. I had hit almost 200K. I've never made that kind of money before and was like, yes, I did it. And, you know, the little things like going to the grocery store, not. not shopping the sales, just grabbing whatever you need, keeping it moving, going out. I live in New York City. So being able to just grab a bite to eat or take my kids somewhere, whatever it was, that felt very freeing. And I had never had that experience, but my body was responding in pretty gnarly ways with headaches and rashes and all sorts of other things that we don't need to get into. But I knew to our point earlier, I knew that something was off and that you is initially when we had had crossed paths. So when you said, you know, be less useful, I'm a very literal person. And I took that and just really ran with it because I spent, you know, the following year just diving into all things art, creativity, making, and essentially shut off my business brain, my startup brain, anything that was more logical. And so it's been very... nourishing.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. I mean, I love it because it kind of mirrors the thing you were talking about before, because you spoke about how you had to bring your heart and your head together and close the chasm. Now what you're talking about at this current juncture that you're in is you are like all business, all utility for so long. I mean, you're still doing creative stuff, but like that was the focus. And then this pasture has been mostly creativity, art, storytelling. you know, really like having a holistic nourishing experience. And now you're talking about closing the chasm between those two things. I just think it's interesting how everything is the same everywhere all the time.

• Speaker #1

  Yes, yes, yes.

• Speaker #0

  But, you know, another thing that I was just thinking of as you're talking, because I'm like thinking back, like our, my coaching experience with you is like one of the most magical ones, because it really, it helped me trust myself more because you and I were so connected. that I was like, oh, wow, like all these things I'm seeing, they're real. And like, it's mirrored in Lindsay's experience. And I had this grand vision of you because the first one of the first things you sent me, okay, you weren't doing photography much at this time, right? You sent me this thing of all these photos you took. And I was like, this woman, she's a photographer. Like, why isn't she doing this? This is such a piece of the heartbeat of who she is. And I wrote you back and I was like, I love everything you sent. The photos really stand out to me. Like, you are a photographer. You are a visual storyteller. I'm like, sure, there's something here. And then I also had this vision of you giving talks, like using your photos, projecting them onto the screen. And like. storytelling with it. And it's so cool that now you're finding a way and this was like your own doing. I did not give you the idea to do this. I just said those two things to you. And you ran off and did all your homework and then some, but that you found a way to like integrate those two things. So talk about what you've been doing for the last year with Field Notes and like what that creative journey has been like.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, it's definitely been, it's definitely been a journey. I, yeah, I think when we had initially met and had, you know, a couple of our first sessions, and then I had those tough conversations with clients, with partners, with collaborators to be like, hey, I need the space to be able to take up space in a different way. And the prompt to myself was through my work life, through my not even work, through my life, I have spent time in many different. industries in many different arenas, both literally and figuratively around just overall a very squiggly path. And so to me, it was never about, quote unquote, just being a photographer or just being a storyteller or just being an anthropologist or just, just, just. And again, I say that, please, don't be offended by that. For me, I, my brain. does not fire on all cylinders when I am just doing one thing over and over and over again, day to day to day. Even in high school, I was working three, four jobs at a time. Like this, this has always happened. This is not new.

• Speaker #0

  You're in good company. A lot of multi-passionate creatives listening.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And so the prompt to myself was how do I braid together photography, anthropology, and storytelling in a way that only I can do. I enjoy writing. But I did not want to be judged as a writer. One, because both my best friend and my wife are incredible writers and they are trained writers. And I'm like, I am not. I don't want to get in the in the arena with them. We're not we're not fighting in that. No, thank you. And I know from my time having done photography since I was a little kid, working at newspapers, portrait studios, shooting weddings, doing all of the things I knew that photography. for me was less of less about the art. I enjoy the craft of it, but I don't geek out on it in a way that I've seen other photographers. It was always, always, always about the people. So it was so much more about an energetic exchange with whoever I'm photographing rather than, oh, I need to make sure that the lighting is perfect and I have the right gear and lens and so on and so forth. I'm I don't give a shit about the other things. And then just from having spent, so I spent a decade plus in the music industry and touring and whatnot, and definitely picked up a few things along the way. I spent a lot of time with spoken word poets and rappers and whatnot. And I think that definitely rubbed off. And so the natural cadence of the way that I speak, people tend to ask like, oh, are you a spoken word poet? And I'm like, mm-mm. And again, that's because like I have toured with phenomenal spoken word poets and I'm I am not attempting to compete in that way. And so it was, if I'm honest, pretty selfish of like, how do I create something that only I can do so that it can't be compared to do it,

• Speaker #0

  though?

• Speaker #1

  That's true. I mean, it would have been a whole hell of a lot easier to be like, OK, this is how you you do photography. I could go back and get an MFA and I could. I could follow that path. Or if I live in New York City, there's plenty of open mics and spoken word, you know, poetry, ways to get involved in things. And I wasn't interested in any of that. And again, it's about as much as it is about me creating, it is about connecting with people. And so that's how this project, which is now called Field Notes from the Work in the Wild was born. And I think about it as a living documentary practice. It's one conversation at a time. And it's if we're like, really geeking out and nerding out, which I think this is the place. Field Notes is humanist field documentation, and it's sitting at that intersection of photography, oral storytelling, and cultural anthropology, which is... My background.

• Speaker #0

  So beautiful. And it lives on Substack.

• Speaker #1

  It lives on Substack.

• Speaker #0

  And so basically you go in and you take pictures of people in their workspace, like in the middle, in the messy middle.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah. The prompt is essentially when I reach out to someone for this is like, where is your happy place that your deepest, most meaningful work transpires? And so some people, it's their music studio, their yoga studio, their garden, their favorite park. wherever it is. And then I meet them where they're physically at.

• Speaker #0

  I love it. I love it. It's so, I mean, you have to give it a follow if you don't already. Hi, creative. If listening to this conversation is stirring something up in you and you're realizing you want support bringing your own creative vision to life, I would love to help. In my creative coaching practice, I work with artists, entrepreneurs, leaders, multi-passionate humans, and people in the middle of major life transitions. who know that there's something inside of them that they want to express, but they need help to get unstuck, get clear, and actually start moving. Whether you're trying to start a project, make a career pivot, reconnect with your creativity, or trust yourself more deeply, this is the work we can do together. My approach blends creative strategy, mindset, and deep inner work. So we make the project, but you're not just making things. You're also becoming more fully yourself in the process. If that calls to you, I would love to connect. You can book a free 15-minute discovery call at laurenlagrasso.com or by emailing me lauren.lagrasso at gmail.com. Okay, back to the show. You took the leap. You were like, I am going all in on this. And there have been a lot of moments where you've questioned it. There was a big period last spring where you were trying to get a full-time job. And I'm like, don't do it. So I went from being like, are you sure you want to quit that job? And being like, don't you dare go back and get a full-time job. Because like, I just know that you're onto something and something is coming. But you've had to really cultivate your faith in the last year, especially you had a child in this time. Like you already had a child, but you had a baby that came through in this time. You and your wife moved to a new home. Like, how have you held the line and kept the faith in those wobbly moments?

• Speaker #1

  Definitely. It has been excruciating at times. And I think I've done my best to share that transparently. I, you know, the irony is not lost on me if I'm sharing everyone's messy middle. If I don't share my own, I hold myself to that same same standard and accountability. And I think that's also from more of a spiritual perspective, from a from a faith perspective, that has been my biggest learning, especially over the last three, six months or so. And being, let's see, you mentioned human Swiss Army knife. I am so wildly confident in my ability to problem solve and to get shit done. And no matter what scenario I'm put in, I'm like, I got this. No problem. When it comes to asking for help, that has been a learned skill. And I thought that I was doing pretty damn good at it. Throughout all these different projects and things that I have worked on. And then the universe said, but your personal life, will you ask for help there? And I didn't even clock that. I hadn't really done that. And can't, you know, 2025 or excuse me, 2026 came around and it was like, okay, this has been almost a year of field notes. There were many signs of life. ended up with. 20 paid subscribers. Like how cool two grand off of posting photos and these interviews and spoken record pieces on Substack. Like I didn't imagine that. I was fortunate enough to have three patrons, like old school patrons of the arts reach out to me and say, Hey, we want this to keep going. How can we help? I'm like, well, you know, a mortgage in New York city takes some funding. They said, okay. And you know, 15 K came in through that. Amazing. And then there was a period of time where a lot of friends who are much older, who are very unfamiliar with Substack, and they said, is there any other way that we can give you money? There was a brief period of time that there was a GoFundMe and, you know, another $1,500 came in through that. And so all in, let's say, all in under $25K or rather $25K had come in. And like, holy shit, how cool is that? This like wild, wacky idea that I had been executing on. could come up with any money, never mind $25,000. That's amazing.

• Speaker #0

  And holding two things to be true at the same time, $25,000 is not enough to live in New York City. And so to your point, I had gone out looking for other roles and the universe said no. I've never been rejected from so many things in my life. Jobs, everything. This is like a year of rejection in every sense of the word, which many friends have reframed as redirection. Thank you. I got it. doesn't to your point does not ease the doesn't ease the anxiety around it only only i can do that and when it came to february february was and again like these two things being true at the same time are so as a very literal person that messes with my head so much so i was fortunate enough to give back-to-back ted talks at the beginning of february and so in in that sense It was like, hell yeah. Like I finally figured this out. Somebody said, yes, I get to do a thing. I get to talk about field notes in this big way. How amazing is that? And that was when like I as an individual had or, you know, my business had completely run out of cash. I haven't I haven't had that since since I was in college.

• Speaker #1

  Maybe high school for you, though, because you had a thriving photography business in high school.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. And so it was like, whoa. And I never I am very grateful that I probably along the way could have asked my parents for help. They they love me. They care about me. I know that. But I never let myself ever ask for any support in that way. And so, you know, fast forward now, I I was like, we have this like TED experience like, wow, this is incredible. And then the you know, the reckoning of we got bills to pay. And I had to go to my wife and be like, hey, like, this is the first time in the seven years of our relationship of like, I don't I don't got this. And that was like, I'm like emotional about it now because that's fucking hard. And to to to know and to see and to hear her belief in me at first, my reaction was like, oh, shit, like I. That was, it went like, I got reprogrammed to like hustle Lindsay. I was like, okay, I go out there. I got to figure this out. We're going to do this. I was going to meeting after meeting, after meeting, after meeting, after meeting for like 30 days straight and then just hit a wall. And this is all, this is all very fresh. This is in the last couple of months. And then finally was like, oh, that is not, we know, we know better. Like, why, why are you doing this? And then a follow-up conversation with my, with my wife where she was like, well, the you know that was kind of the point of this whole marriage thing that's it you tell me all the time but she was like you you talk to me all the time you talk to our kids all the time about how we're a team and like we're gonna figure this out together and she's like wouldn't you do the same for me like yeah of course but that's you so come on and she was like stop with this you know double standard and let's let's figure this out and she's like i if i did not believe in you, then we would not be. having this conversation, but I do. And so keep going and it's, it's gonna be okay. And I was like, okay, it's gotta be okay. It's gotta be okay. And so it's like, I thought I had done so much work, you know, nervous system regulation. And now this is, I'm like, whoa, there's a deeper excavation here.

• Speaker #1

  Oh my gosh. First of all, love you, Selena. That is so beautiful. Selena is Lindsay's wife. If you weren't getting that, I've never met her, but I love her. Um, Whoa, Linz, like that is so powerful because I'm definitely not where you are yet. Like, ah, I've been in the opposite position where I'm, you know, supporting, but like I've never let myself, I guess I've never, I haven't to this point been in the place where I needed that, but I've never let myself have that, you know?

• Speaker #0

  Totally. Totally.

• Speaker #1

  And so I think it is so brave and. Um, like it really comes, I I'm sure that you struggled with it, but like, to me, it shows your self-worth that you were saying, like, I know I am enough to like, go to my wife and share this issue. And like, you know, obviously a lot of credit to your wife too, but I guess I'm not, I'm rambling, but I want to know what kind of spiritual healing did this bring to you to see that you're held in this way and that you have all this inherent worth as a human.

• Speaker #2

  Mm. Such a good question. Not surprising. Oh,

• Speaker #1

  put that on my tombstone.

• Speaker #0

  Truly. Yeah. I think really coming, coming from that place of knowing and being very clear. And finally, after what feels like my entire life of letting myself, and this is, I think everything that we worked on in like in a coaching relationship was, was. being seen, heard, and understood. I know, and that's why I'm so good at getting shit done. I can very easily see, hear, and understand other people. And to receive that is really, really, really difficult. And that's what Field Notes has really pushed me to do, was because as much as I am holding the space. for these other people and photographing and interviewing and telling their stories. At the same time, we wouldn't get to the depths of what we cover if I wasn't willing to be open and vulnerable and have that same space. And so I think about Field Notes very much is a spiritual practice for me, without a doubt. And I remember I think about it a lot because the creative thesis that you and I worked on. was something to the effect of to shine a light on the stories, skills, and strengths that often go unnoticed. And that was the main chunk of it. That was the exciting part. But then the other part of it was so people, and I think the first time that I wrote this was very external. And I said that, so people feel seen, heard, understood, so that you they can step into places that they never thought they could otherwise. And you pushed back and you were like, girl, where are you in this? I was like, weird, weird how that works. Okay. And so then changing it to shine a light on the story skills and strengths that often go unnoticed so people feel and myself feel fully seen, deeply understood and can step into spaces that they never thought they belonged in. And so that's- I've chills. Yeah. I mean, hey, girl, you help me get to that place. So I think about that frequently. And that is deeply embedded into what Field Notes has evolved into. And this dance with other people, that's what it's all about.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, I love all of that. And I do want to just delve a little deeper and ask like, how has being supported by your wife in this way, both like in her support of you as a creative and her belief that you are building something that is powerful and also just literally letting yourself be held like how has that helped you heal we are we are in that in this in

• Speaker #0

  this moment uh and it's a lot of noticing and like watching the stories come up and then have it like observing them and then making a conscious decision to be like okay, I'm going to hold on to that story and let that be true or acknowledge, hey, that's not true anymore. That's like a good meditation exercise of just like visualizing everything as clouds. And now I'm just like, okay, that cloud can keep on keeping on. It doesn't need to stay here. And so that's been the practice lately, especially with this baby is four months old and obviously has a lot of needs. whatnot. And so I catch myself doing that every once in a while. Like even tonight, I'm going to an event after we're done. We're done here. And I caught myself earlier being like, OK, well, I need to lay out my older daughter's pajamas and put toothpaste on her toothbrush and make sure that she has her medicine and make sure that, you know, dinner is laid out and all of these things. And it's like, well, I don't need to do that. Selena is a perfectly competent human being like, it's going to be okay. And so those are still the places in which there is some of that overcompensation that when I notice it, I'm like, we don't need to do that. Because Selena has agency and she'll ask.

• Speaker #1

  Right. I mean, I so relate to you. Like when I feel afraid at all, I just go into overfunctioning. Like that is what I do. And I have luckily through the pregnancy had to learn to step. back a bit. Because I just like I couldn't cook my first trimester. Like I was like the look of raw meat was so repulsive to me. And the way Tim stepped up because I was just not able to be functioning in that way. I mean, he cooked all my dinners. I still have barely washed a dish in almost five months. Like,

• Speaker #0

  you know,

• Speaker #1

  he's been amazing. But I think you only get to see that if you put your hand up and say, I need help. And I can't do it all. And also, like, how dare we deprive somebody of taking care of another human being, specifically us in that way when like totally found joy and purpose and doing it.

• Speaker #0

  Exactly.

• Speaker #1

  So I think it's so important to, like you said, give people agency, but also allow them to show up for you because it's an honor. It's an honor to totally take care of someone and to hold space and whatever way you're doing it.

• Speaker #0

  Exactly.

• Speaker #1

  I think it's just a really good lesson and something we all need to know is like people who struggle with anxiety or overfunctioning or like, you know, like if that's your go to move when you feel unsafe, consider being less useful.

• Speaker #0

  Yes. Believe it or not, the world is still, I mean, arguably maybe not functioning right now.

• Speaker #1

  That's not your fault, though.

• Speaker #0

  Not my fault.

• Speaker #1

  There are many other people that led to that, but it was not you.

• Speaker #0

  Yes, exactly.

• Speaker #1

  So the other thing we talked about before we came on air was you've had this. OK, we briefly like tease this earlier, but you had this period of high functioning, like business badass woman helping all these other people make their dreams come true and like working on that stuff. Then you've had this year where you've completely delved into your creativity while still trying to make things happen and making things happen. But really, the focus was creativity expression. Now you're trying to bring the worlds together. What does that look like? And what is the approach for someone out there who maybe is in a similar place?

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. It's messy. It's so messy. It's so much yelling. So many voice notes. To myself. But there's a lot of voice notes that are like podcasts in length to some very, very dear friends. Just like,

• Speaker #2

  what the f***?

• Speaker #0

  What are we doing here? What is happening? And it's been really, really interesting if I can remove myself from it every once in a while and be more of that witness rather than being very caught and very stressed and very freaked out, which is very difficult in this moment to do. But when I do it, I always feel better afterwards. And so it's just thinking through, again, as someone who's. a very literal person when two things are true at the same time that don't feel like they should be true or that have not historically been true that just it like actually physically gives me a headache and so i relate so much i can't yes i'm like but how do we do this right and just think then i like then it usually ends up in some sort of wild existential spiral around you know capitalism. and the state of the world, and how did we get here, and why did we get here. And then I really geek out and spend some many hours productively procrastinating, or at least the illusion of productivity, going down wild rabbit holes of, you know, the history of just how we even came up with work and jobs and everything. And then I'm like, okay, let's bring it back. None of that was actually helpful. We're not moving the needle on any of it. And then it comes to I think a lot of it is, I mean, it's putting yourself out there. It's being vulnerable. It's asking for, for help and asking it's, it's being willing to sit in the mud long enough to recognize and have the clarity to recognize what you need and then asking for it, which is so hard.

• Speaker #1

  How do you do that? If somebody out there is listening or like, I don't want to ask for help. I'm scared. like you're actually a person who I consider to be great at outreach.

• Speaker #0

  So.

• Speaker #1

  How did you build that skill and how do you do it?

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, I think what I've realized is I think I used to cast a very wide net and that made me feel better because it was like, well, obviously, if I email 500 people, they're not all going to respond to me. And so like past Lindsay would do that. And that would make me feel better because it would be like, oh, if I send 500 emails and then I get, I don't know, 10 responses and one of them says yes, then that's a win. Now it's much more concentrated. And that is I mean, it's time, it's age, it's craft, it's professionalism, however you want to call it. But I think the more difficult part. And the part that now being on the receiving end of a lot of cold emails and pitches and whatnot, I do appreciate when folks, myself included, when you actually sit down, when you do the research, when you're clear on what your own mission, vision, values are before you outreach to somebody else and say, hey, this is what I want to fill up your inbox with and I'm asking for your time. And so that's been a big part of this. evolution.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah. Yeah. No, it's so true. I mean, when somebody sends you a generic pitch, it's the worst thing ever. If I have to write you back and ask, what do you want? You have not done a good job in writing. Totally. Totally. I think it's just like at least being clear with if you haven't asked what your ask is like, definitely giving a compliment of some sort that connects you to the person. There's so many ways to specialize it, but Lindsay's exactly right. Okay, what...

• Speaker #0

  what is the role of surrender right now and how are you engaging with that i think that's the whole role the lead some might say the lead yeah i've been talking about it as somebody who hates roller coasters i've been pushing myself uh to think about it in this way and it's i mean especially with with outreach both warm and cold and putting putting my artwork into the world and working on. a larger scale event coming up in the fall. Like there's, there's a lot of things up in the air. There's a gazillion things that could go wrong. And then on top of it, I have, you know, I have a almost 10 year old with a chronic illness and I have a four month old, like life is lifing. And so I'm very empathetic. And at the same time, you know, to the point of where we started, I still have a very, very high expectation of my own capacity, my own abilities. I have a very high bar for other people. And that's... where that's where my patience has worn thin, if you will. And I think I had a call with a friend recently who I thought we were just catching up and then he really lovingly kicked my ass from a coaching perspective. And we had this whole experience and then he made me tell him. What I thought the whole point of the conversation was and where we landed was, I know now I do. And I have it on a sticky note right in front of me. And that's what I keep coming back to because it's like, no,

• Speaker #1

  I know. What is it? I know now I do.

• Speaker #0

  Yes. What does that mean? Because it was like, I know. I know finally.

• Speaker #1

  Oh, and now I will go do it.

• Speaker #0

  Yes. And there is not there's no permission. There's no friction. And the... essence of that is like because i i have gotten so clear on the on everything in in terms of field notes not everything in my life i've gotten very clear when it comes to field notes when it comes to this event and whatnot that if there and this is where more of the spiritual practice comes into it is with that clarity i i know that what i'm putting out there is i believe to be true And so I'm going to put it out there. And if it's received, great. And if not, that's okay. I'm not going in the past, I would send, you know, a follow-up email and a follow-up email and a follow-up email. And now it's more of that energetic relationship of I'm putting this out there. And if you want it, that's great. And if not, then the energy is going to keep moving.

• Speaker #1

  I love that. So one thing we also discussed is the difference between your internal why and how you sell something. And that's actually something I've been thinking about a lot lately when it comes to like, Like even the podcast, I'm like, I might have this grand mission, but like, I think I need to pare down what I am saying the offering is because it's too confusing for people.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah.

• Speaker #1

  Like I'm trying to heal humanity through creativity, but like maybe I can just say like, this is a podcast to help you be more creative. You know what I mean?

• Speaker #0

  Yep.

• Speaker #1

  Yep. So that's my little example. But what, how is that showing up for you and how are you working on it with this project Feel Notes?

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. definitely i think i mean for me the whole the essence of field notes is that creative thesis yeah and when if i'm talking to a potential sponsor a partner an advertiser anybody like that they could not give a shit less about anybody feeling seen heard or understood they're like and which you know signals that they'd be the wrong partner to begin with but also it needs to be digestible enough and this is top of mind because This morning, actually, I had this awesome human that I know reach out and be like, oh, I really want to do a retreat or like a day style workshop with you. And I'm like, OK, like lay it on me. And she had sent some information over and it was called the content retreat. And instantly I was like,

• Speaker #2

  oh,

• Speaker #0

  like, I don't I that's that. No, thank you. Again, like just visceral reaction of like, absolutely not. I don't want to have anything to do with that. I was like, I make art, damn it. And then I knew that was my initial gut reaction. Then I bit my tongue and I was like, OK, this is not, you know, I'm not going to go back and forth on this Google doc. And so I called her this afternoon. I was like, hey, I'm going to be honest. the gut reaction was this what what was your intention i know that you've run this before and i know that we have a shared value system so it's weird to me that this was the path you went down but i know that it's working so tell me what's up yeah and literally it was this conversation she was like yes lindsey i agree with you i hear you i hate it too and at the same time if you know she went and was like oh we're gonna get together on a friday we're gonna make some art and we're gonna heal and we're gonna figure our shit out And we're going to basically have a therapy session. No one's going to come to that. But if we say this is a content retreat and we're going to make so much, so many things that you can put all over the Internet to make yourself feel awesome. People sign up for that. I was like, oh, OK. And so now that's exactly what I'm going through with this Field Notes event, which is essentially acting on the vision that you had a year and a half ago. And so I'm so excited.

• Speaker #2

  Tell everybody what it is.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. Field Notes Live, September 26th, Bronxlandia in the South Bronx. And it's, I mean, it's a full day gathering in Hunts Point where, like I said, documentary, photography, oral storytelling and cultural anthropology converge live. And if I, again, if I say that to your average person, they're going to be like, I know. No, thank you. I don't know. What is that? But if I say it's basically like. the moth and Ted in a concert had a baby, people are like, okay, yeah, sign me up for that. And so upon getting my ass kicked over the last couple of weeks with sponsorship conversations, rambling about what I'm so excited about, and then actually taking stock and being like, what did they need to be excited about? That's where that nuance has officially come full circle. And again, like I know these things.

• Speaker #1

  Of course, but it's so much harder to do anything for yourself. Like I always say, coaches need coaches. Like seeing yourself accurately in your own business or your own creative idea accurately is far less easy, at least for those of us that have insight into other humans. It's far less easy than seeing somebody else accurately. Right. And like, it's so brilliant. I think it's a great reminder for anyone listening who wants to monetize their creative work. Remember, sometimes your own internal compass might be different than the way in which you need to share the story with the world. And that's okay. That's okay. Because you're still going to share the story. And as long as you're doing that, it doesn't really matter the way in which somebody finds their way into it or digests it for the first time.

• Speaker #0

  100%. And it's also serendipitous that the venue that we're doing this at is owned by this woman, Majora Carter, who is just a badass woman. from the South Bronx, who's done just incredible work for the Bronx. And I was doing her field note. And during that, she's somebody who she's had a just like wildly successful career. And when I was interviewing her, it was interesting because at the beginning, she very strongly identified as an artist. And I was like, oh, that's not what I expected, because she's done everything from speaking to teaching to real estate, all the things. And so for her to say like, I'm an artist. I was like, wow, okay, we're taking a stance. That's fantastic. And so as she's speaking, long story long, she's going through her whole life. And she kept saying how she was doing all these business deals and whatnot. And I, in this space, this was recently. And so being in this space for me right now, where I'm attempting to integrate my business knowledge with my artistic integrity, I had asked her, I was like, well, I don't know. The math doesn't math for me on that. How are you telling me that you're an artist and then you're out here and you're doing this real estate development and you're working with city government and so on and so forth? And she stopped me in my tracks, Lauren, and this still keeps me up at night. And this was at least a month, if not two months ago. And she literally just said she was like, well, isn't that the job of the artist is to translate and to... physically paint the picture so other people can see it how you see it i was like well when you put it that way yeah okay so that's really what's been sticking in my mind is like it does not matter In this in this essence of why this is exciting to me, it is why it's going to be exciting for other people.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah. So good. Speaking of that, what are you feeling optimistic about in this moment? Where are you drawing your hope and inspiration from?

• Speaker #0

  I mean,

• Speaker #2

  these doing these interviews and putting these stories out is very is very motivating because there's always.

• Speaker #0

  more, more, I was going to say a glimmer, but much more than a glimmer of hope when I'm sitting with, because I sit with people for two, three hours at a time when we do these field notes together and doing the photographs and whatnot. And every single time, I mean, I'm constantly learning and then that's one experience. And then the experience of actually putting the field notes out into the world is an, is another way for people to share and to learn and to, to grow in that way. And so that's, that's very, very motivating. And then having having a an event, you know, six months down the road is definitely keeping me going.

• Speaker #1

  If there's somebody listening who's in the mud right now, what would you say to them?

• Speaker #0

  Stay there. Actually, like sit in it, feel the feelings and then come move. When you do decide to move, when you decide to take that next step, come from that place. knowing that you've done harder things.

• Speaker #2

  She's good, folks.

• Speaker #1

  Tell, okay, Lindsay, we could have a million conversations and we most likely should. And we will. So this will not be your last Unleash appearance. But in the meantime, can you please share with my gorgeous creative cuties where they can find field notes, how they can support you, how they can come to this live event in September, all the things.

• Speaker #0

  Yes. As you mentioned earlier, I spend an inordinate amount of time on LinkedIn. So if you are on LinkedIn, come and hang out there. Lindsay Lerner, that's where I'm at. And on Substack, the Substack is field notes from the work and the wild. And you'll find that both everything is free, open access to anyone who wants to engage or interact with field notes. And then for those who have chosen, there is a paid subscription option. And for the event in September, the ticket link is not yet live. But if you sign up and subscribe to Field Notes, you will be the first one to hear about it.

• Speaker #1

  Okay. So subscribe to Field Notes. That's your call to action. I'll put it in the show notes too. So if anybody still looks at those, you can go there.

• Speaker #0

  Right.

• Speaker #1

  And I just love you. I'm so grateful our paths crossed and that we just, we get to be friends and supporters of each other and you're a person who inspires me greatly. And I admire you and love you and think you're a brilliant artist. So thank you for being here.

• Speaker #0

  Right back at you. I love you too.

• Speaker #1

  There you have it. My conversation with the brilliant Lindsay Lerner. One of my biggest takeaways from the conversation is that so much of what we call ambition or discipline can sometimes be just over-functioning in disguise. And sometimes... The most creative thing you can do is stop gripping so hard, open your hands and allow life. Remember, be less useful, be more yourself and more creative. I hope this episode gave you permission to loosen your grip somewhere in your own life and your creative journey and listen for what wants to emerge when you get a little quieter. Please go follow Lindsay, subscribe to Field Notes from The Work and The Wild on Substack. You can also connect with her and learn more. on lindsaylearner.com. And remember, she is a LinkedIn influencer. So check her out on there. She's Lindsay Lerner across all platforms. If this episode resonated with you, please share it with a fellow creative. Go ahead and give us a rating and review on Apple. Give us a rating on Spotify and share on social media. Tag me at Lauren LaGrasso at Unleash Your Inner Creative. I will repost to share my gratitude. Unleash Your Inner Creative is hosted and executive produced by me, Lauren LaGrasso. It's edited by Blondel Garcon with music by Liz Full. Thank you again for listening. I love you and I believe in you. Talk with you next week.