Transcription

• Speaker #0

  What if the reason you feel stuck isn't because you don't know who you are, but because you've spent years hiding parts of yourself in order to fit in? Today's guest is going to help you stop shrinking for others and start to take up space to embrace and remember the powerful human you've always been. Welcome to Unleash Your Inner Creative with Lauren LaGrasso. I'm Lauren LaGrasso, a three-time Webby Award-winning podcast host and producer, singer-songwriter, speaker, and creative coach. And this show is meant to give you tools to love, trust, and know yourself enough to claim your birthright to creativity and pursue your wildest dreams. Today I'm talking with journalist, editor, and author Stacey Lindsay. Stacey has written for publications including the New York Times, Oprah Daily, InStyle, Parade, Goop, and currently serves as the editorial director of Maria Shriver's Sunday paper. She is also the author of the beautiful new book, Being 40, The Decade of Letting Go, and embracing who we are. I love her book so much. You must go get it. In this conversation, we talk about why so many women spend years prioritizing other people's comfort over their own authenticity, how to listen to the wisdom of your body, and why getting older might actually be one of the most creative and liberating experiences of your life. We also dive into self-worth, people-pleasing, courage, marriage, motherhood, taking up space, and Stacey's very powerful and interesting concept of the autumn queen. This is your wise, creative, self-respecting version of yourself who already knows exactly who she is and how to share. Think of it as a higher self, but even better. This episode is for anyone who's ever felt behind, questioned their path, or wondered if it's too late to become the person they were always meant to be. Spoiler alert, if you're feeling that way, you're right on time, and this episode is proof. So let's get into it. Here she is, the amazing Stacey Lindsey. Stacey, okay, we just spent the past like five-ish minutes telling each other how much we loved each other. It was so heartfelt. I met you back when I was producing the Goop podcast and you came in and you were recording what they called the voice of God in Goop Health. And basically, it was like telling people in the room what to do. I had never heard of it before. I'm going to be honest. I pretended like I knew what you guys were talking about. But I was like, sure, I'll record this voiceover. But when I met you, not only did you have such a beautiful, present, full voice, because of course, I noticed that working in audio, but you had and have this sparkle in you. And I remember thinking, who is this girl? There is something so unbelievably special going on here. you always left an imprint on my heart. And you were someone I honestly maybe only met like twice outside of saying hi in the hallways. But I've thought of you so often since then. And when I first saw you were working with Maria Shriver, because I produced her podcast back the day too. I was like, of course she is. That makes sense. Love Maria. And then when I saw you were putting out this book, I was like, oh, there she is. There she is.

• Speaker #1

  Oh, Lauren, thank you. Thank you. And I'm just thinking the whole time you're saying this, which I'm receiving with a big heart, and I'm thinking, look at you. I mean, the same thing when I met you back years ago now and thinking, I can't get you out of my mind when we left each other from that space. I couldn't stop thinking about you. So it means so much to hear that from you.

• Speaker #0

  It's really rare to meet someone with as much genuine warmth as you have. And it's just, yeah, it's not something that you can or would ever. want to shake. So I'm so happy we're in touch and that I got to live in the world of this incredible book that you've written. It's about being 40 in your 40s, but really to me, it's just a great guide on how to get to know and be your full self, take up space, ask for what you want and live from a place of self-knowledge and self-trust regardless of age. But it is told through the lens of entering your 40s, because that seems to be an era that really calls that from you.

• Speaker #1

  These days, too, when you look around, you see this is happening for women that the 40s is this time of self-declaration. It's this time of, no, that's not working for me anymore. This is what I want. It's a whole host of coming into oneself. But The cool thing, as I've been talking about this book more, I've been having amazing conversations with women in their 20s and 30s and 50s and 60s and beyond who say that parts of this have been really resonating with them as well. So on one hand, it's all about the 40s. And on the other hand, it's nothing about the 40s. It's just about being a woman in this crazy world we live in. And, you know, getting closer to ourselves and saying, this is me. This is who I am. And it's not an easy thing to do that. But when we finally do do that, we find just this radical peace. We find we have so much more strength to face things. We find so much.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. No, I feel that. I mean, I would recommend this to any human, but especially any woman of any age, because eventually they're going to think about it. So why not now?

• Speaker #1

  That's what I hope, right? That's what I hope. And that's what's fascinating when you have conversations with women of different ages where you learn, okay, when did you really discover this wasn't working for you or this is really what you wanted? And I'm finding now we're in such a fascinating time for womanhood in general, because we are starting to learn or unlearn more so at a younger age. And conversations I've been having with women who are older than me, they... said the 40s for them were not a time of self-declaration because it wasn't in the culture at the time. There wasn't space to be having these conversations like there is now. So I'm actually hoping that someday this book is not even needed, that women just come into themselves right away in their teens and their 20s. Yeah,

• Speaker #0

  that would be great. I mean, yeah. How wonderful would it be if we lived in a world that didn't require us to strip away parts of ourselves in order to fit in, you know, God willing. And I think the more we talk about it and the more we share about how we've had to reclaim ourselves and put ourselves back together, hopefully the more people will choose to never take away parts of themselves to please others. But yeah, it was just so powerful because it really is a book about remembering who you've always been and sharing that with the world. So what sparked this idea for you? What made you say this is the topic? this is what I'm coming out with.

• Speaker #1

  I've been really interested in reporting on women and women's issues for probably the past five years. Honestly, my whole career I have been, but I have honed in on that quote unquote journalistic beat more recently. And when it comes to our health or our wellbeing, how we find ourselves in society, the issues that are really impacting us, I'm fascinated by all of it. And in that, I started becoming really interested in you growing older in the context of being a woman and identifying as a woman. And I started seeing that there's this really progressive, beautiful conversation happening around aging with power and owning your age and women just doing radical things later in life. And I can't get enough of it. I loved it. Also, there's this really cool conversation about midlife happening too, and caring for ourselves during perimenopause and menopause, things I never even said those words. Five years ago, I never said those words. But I was craving something more specific, Lauren. I was, well, I'm 44. So that meant I entered my 40s several years ago. And in my late 30s, when I started really writing about women more so, I was experiencing all these things in my own life. My body was changing. My moods were starting to be super wacky. I was frustrated. I was excited. I was fill in the blank. And then I turned 40. And I started craving, where's the storytelling around this age? We know the old, sticky, stale, societal stigma stories. Oh, this is a time of decline. Oh my gosh, you're 40? All that. But when I saw women in their 40s turning 40 and in their 40s, what I was seeing was this is actually a time of radical finding yourself, getting closer, saying, nope, I'm not dealing with that anymore. All these things. And so within the whole broad context of women and midlife, I wasn't seeing anything specific to the 40s and I wanted to really drill down on it. And then also I wanted to know I wasn't alone in this, you know, all this weird stuff that was going on. And so I couldn't get enough of it. Once I started talking with other women, I say the floodgates opened because they really want to talk. They wanted to talk about it with me. So I couldn't find enough time in the day to dig into this and report on it and write on it.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah,

• Speaker #1

  I loved it.

• Speaker #0

  I mean, it's clear in reading it. How did you know it was true for you? Like what? Because you talk in the book about your body. And that has been a big part of my journey in my 30s is actually developing a real relationship with my body instead of being a floating head. I laugh, but I feel you. Yeah, like a floating head. I was just like a balloon going through the air.

• Speaker #1

  Because we're taught, oh my gosh, I have so many thoughts on that, but we're taught to like disassociate almost from our bodies. Oh,

• Speaker #0

  100%. And also I never realized it was very ironically like Tracy Anderson talked about having a relationship with your body. And that's what like sparked it for me. It was on Bethany's old talk show. I saw a clip. But that was my first realization of, oh, I never realized like working out was for me. It's not to just get smaller. And that's why I always resented working out. Like I could have a good relationship with my body and do this to take care of myself. And that totally shifted my view on working out and eating. And I love that you go into that in the book. But to circle back to the question, I want to know, like, what body feeling did you get? that told you this was true, this was the topic?

• Speaker #1

  Oh, I remember it so clearly. I was having a conversation with Maria Shriver about this, which is pretty awesome to actually say out loud, because I started looking at the possibility of writing a book about what I was talking about a few minutes ago, just in terms of generally aging with power. And I was thinking, okay, maybe this would be a good idea. And we were talking about it together about Hope. profiling some people about how do you age with power? How do you own your age? But it wasn't, it wasn't landing. I'm like, no, because again, I was going through all this. And so it was, and because ultimately I have to say to my book is under Maria's imprint at Viking Penguin. So it's with the open field imprint that she started, which is so I'm so honored. But it was, it almost flooded out of me when we both were saying, this isn't the book I want to write. There's something more specific. And then I just blurted out, there is so much women in their 30s and 40s are going through today. And we're not talking about it enough. We're not writing about it enough. We're not writing about all the changes, how the 40s look so different today than they did decades ago. We're not writing about all the things we face. We're not writing about the cool things we're doing too. And so it was in that moment, I thought, yeah, there's a lot more here. So then I dug down and then I wrote a whole new proposal on it and rolled up my sleeves.

• Speaker #0

  And what did it feel like? Was it like a tingling feeling? Was it an expansive feeling?

• Speaker #1

  It was a feeling of ultimate excitement intersected with rage, intersected with absolute clarity. And I think purpose kind of is a little bit of an overused word, but purpose too. Because I knew, Lauren, that if I'm going through this, other women are going through this. And I did know that firsthand from my reporting. And again, this being. massive changes, this being facing a tough time too. It's tough being a woman. And dare I say, I think in some ways when we get closer to ourselves, things get easier, but also life in the world gets tougher. It just does. And so it was that constellation of all those feelings that I knew this was so deep in my bones. And I had to get over a little bit of self-doubt and self-worth around, am I the one to tell the story? That's something I think a lot of women face. Am I worthy of doing this work? But once I did, I just knew. I knew this was what I had to keep going forward with in terms of writing and reporting.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. Oh, my gosh. Well, you read my mind because my next question was, did you have to get over any limiting beliefs in order to tell this? And if so, how did you move through that?

• Speaker #1

  I basically ran and screamed on a daily basis. Literally shared that with anyone before. for. So maybe I didn't scream daily, but there was a lot of it. There was a lot of going out to the ocean. At the time, I lived in San Francisco and was doing a big bulk of the writing when I was in California. And I would go and just scream wherever I could. It was physical. It was getting out and taking walks. And when I got a chance to visit my mom a few times in Montana when I was writing it and running up a mountain and just letting it all go because... These yearnings in our body, whether it's something that we want to create, whatever it is, it's so physical and it manifests if we don't let it out. And so I did have to get through or move through a lot of that doubt, a lot of the self-worth stuff. And I did that in a lot of the rage, too, because a lot of the stuff that I write about in this book is the patriarchal world we live in and facing it. And we know the obvious ways we're held back as women. But sometimes I don't think we realize all the in obvious ways, all the invisible ways were held back as women. And when I was sitting here with this research and writing this book, I was getting freaking pissed. And so I had to work a lot of that out of my body, too. So it was it was intense.

• Speaker #0

  I can imagine that because like as you were the, you know, one like channeling this work and doing the work, just being the reader. I mean, your whole first chapter, I cried the entire time. time I was reading it because it is very confronting. And I think we push so much down in order to survive, even if we're aware of this on a conscious level. On a physical, spiritual, emotional level, I think we're a lot of times pushing things down just to get through the day and reading it in plain sight, right in front of me, I could no longer pretend like those things weren't true.

• Speaker #1

  And I invite people who read the book to put it down when you need to put it down, because as somebody recently told me, and I laughed, this isn't a beach read. I mean, maybe bring it to the beach, maybe, but bring a novel too. There's some dense stuff in here. And exactly that. exactly what you're saying. And it's just, and when we do see it in plain sight, oh my gosh, I've been contorting myself or I've been quieting myself, or I've been not saying something because I want to make others comfortable or put their needs first. When we really see that, holy cow, we can feel pretty pissed off, but also enlivened too, hopefully, but it's a lot, it's a lot to handle. And then when we see it, at large, too, how the world has just put these expectations on us for so long, us being those of us who identify as women. And when we realize and see firsthand that these are manufactured stories, this is not fact. This is not something we absolutely have to follow. I think sometimes we follow it because it's the thing that makes us feel safe in this really unsafe world sometimes of being a woman. But when we see this is a manufactured story, and I actually don't have to follow it. It's a lot to confront that ultimately freeing, but it's a lot.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, it is. Or even the stories that you've broken and told a different tale of like, I loved your section on marriage. You know, I didn't care about getting married until I met my husband a lot like what it sounds like you were like. And then I decided not to change my last name. And I feel I have felt very strong about. that my whole life. I'm like, I will never change my name unless my husband's going to change his name too. And we decide on a neutral name. But I feel like I have to explain that to people now who have more traditional views. And I can feel myself sometimes contorting to either keep that truth back or to share it with them in a way that is maybe a little defensive because I'm afraid to be criticized because I didn't fall in line.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, I feel you. And it's in that needing to explain that takes so much energy and just stopping to realize, too, all the energy it takes sometimes. And I'm with you. I mean, why is it that we have to justify still and explain or say, oh, actually, no, you know, whatever it may be. That's the thing. We're always kind of stopping and starting, stopping and starting in terms of, oh, I chose to do this or I am not doing this. Oh, why? If it goes against the. grain of society, I guess, in a sense, or it goes against the conventional story. And the conventional story is great if that generally works for somebody's soul. But the truth is, there's not one conventional story. I mean, we're just way too multifaceted. There's not one way for anyone. And so that's what I want us to stop doing is feeling that we have to explain and we have to justify. And it's the work I'm doing every day, too. But it's just knowing that.

• Speaker #0

  How are you doing that work? What have you found works?

• Speaker #1

  I'm taking a lot of naps now.

• Speaker #0

  Ooh, that sounds great.

• Speaker #1

  I wish that were true. You know, it's helped me to realize, firstly, because I would feel a lot of frustration. One thing for me that's really a big one in tandem with the partnership, the conversation around partnership, because that looks so different for all of us, is the conversation around motherhood too. And I've been asked countless times, not as much now in my forties, but countless times throughout my life, are you going to have kids? Do you want kids? And I would always feel this sense of sort of dread after it was asked, because first of all, for me, it's not an easy yes or no answer. It's so, so big and colossal and nuanced. And at the same time, I would be frustrated because again, I felt... as though, why do I have to explain my choices to you? But the truth is, Lauren, that question was asked by incredibly wonderful people most of the time, well-intentioned people, so well-intentioned. So it helps me in doing this work to realize a lot of times when people ask these questions that maybe make us feel as though we have to justify something, it's just rote because it's just part of the stale story that we've all been submerged in. And I think we're all doing the work of letting it go and unlearning it. And so it's helped to just not. Think, how dare you ask me that, but rather take a beat. I'm not saying I'm like totally good at this, but trying to take a beat and realize, OK, that's just still part of this older story. And then. Getting real about my answer too, because I always used to worry about, okay, I'm just need to answer this quickly and then move on because I'm going to make this person feel uncomfortable. But now somebody asked me, I go there. I really go there. So specifically with kids, I will say I have chosen not to have children and I also have a whole lot of grief around it and I wrestle with it. At the same time, I have conviction around it. I'll really let it go and tell them.

• Speaker #0

  How have you learned to choose your own authenticity over prioritizing other people's comfort?

• Speaker #1

  I've learned to really take a pause and to listen to physically how I feel. And that's not something radically new. I think we're starting to really expand that conversation right now in terms of the body telling us the truth. But it's new for me. And it's new for me in my 40s. because I, for so long, for all the previous decades of my life, chose other people's comfort, chose other people's spotlight and stories before mine. And it actually ran me to the ground. It physically didn't make me feel good. But the beauty of when you get older is you can't ignore that anymore. You know, I could ignore that in my 20s and part of my 30s. But now in my 40s, you can't. Like you've got hormonal fluctuations and all these things you need to really take care of your body. And so that's. That's the first thing I'm just thinking. I'm paying attention to how does this situation, how does this relationship, how does this exchange physically make me feel? And then what are the things that I can do to either give me some space from it or to really honor my autonomy within it? Because it's really important for me to say that as much as I would love to tell everyone, follow your dreams and leave that job tomorrow. And that's not true. not everybody can do that. We live in a really tough world, but we can find ways to honor ourselves within that context. And hopefully maybe while we are making larger changes. So those are the two things, really listening to my body and seeing how it physically makes me feel. And again, it shows up in different, different specific ways throughout my body and then thinking, okay, how can I put some really healthy boundaries around this while I kind of navigate through towards something truer.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. And not. denying your own wanting. Maybe you can't leap into the wanting right now, but you can start doing what I call microdosing courage. Instead of turning to drugs, I recommend courage. I mean, you can still take drugs if you want, not my call. But, you know, they're stepping up to it. It doesn't have to be overnight. Like when I left my job, I wanted to leave. Like I had the idea to start a business in 2021. But I started my LLC then and I stair-stepped up until... I felt ready, courageous enough, and had enough leverage where I could do that. So anyway, I think there is most often a way, might not be overnight, but you can get to that place. And even if it makes others uncomfortable, honor your own authenticity.

• Speaker #1

  Microdosing courage. That's incredible. I need to trademark that. I love that.

• Speaker #0

  I should. I've been saying it for years. I'm sure someone else has already stolen it. But yeah, I should. I'll get on it. TM.

• Speaker #1

  But what you just said, Lauren, is so true. And that was a big revelation for me as I was interviewing people for the book and writing it was I was really looking at the idea of taking risks in our lives and doing things to make ourselves proud. Because, again, we're always outsourcing all the time and we're always performing in ways and doing things for other people. But what are the things that we can do to make ourselves proud at the end of the day? Maybe no one else has seen it, but we know we did it. And we can go, yeah, that's. pretty awesome. That took courage. That took a big risk or a leap. And then when it comes to risks too, they can be radical, huge, change everything, but they can also be super small and again, invisible to everyone else but yourself. And so you talk about you started your LLC those years ago. That was a risk. And that led to the next thing, to the next thing, to the next thing. And that's the beautiful part of this too, is that honoring your sovereignty and honoring who you are and how you want the world to really know you can take these small acts every day. And it can even be letting yourself daydream about what you really want, because I didn't even let myself do that for a long time. I just kind of stayed, you know, stayed the course. I'm not even going to really daydream. But then when I really started to pay attention to, no, I'm really, this is kind of creeping into my thoughts. This means something. It always leads to something else.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. It's so true. And you talked about just now and in the book about prioritizing other people's stories, other people's voices being. behind the scenes, still kind of being in front of the scenes, but also being behind the scenes. There is this quote in your book that hit me. And also you've used a huge word in here, so I don't think I'm going to get it right. You can tell me if I've got it right or not. But I would love to read this quote too, because it spoke to my soul, having also done that a lot throughout the years. My work has always landed at the intersection of euphoria and exacerbation. There have been moments of phantasmagoria. goric joy going on live TV, working alongside a legendary actor, getting my first article published. But sums of all my energy often felt like raindrops that fed others lakes. I have lived on the adrenaline of overbooking, over-yesing, overworking, and I could never crack the feeling that I was behind. Well, that one brought tears to my eyes. First, maybe I would just love to hear you elaborate on this section and then I have some follow-up questions.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah. And I'd love to hear your part and to why that brought tears to your eyes too, because we're all just so connected in these stories. We're so connected in our struggles, but what was your question too? Because now I'm just thinking.

• Speaker #0

  I was just saying like, if, if you would care or be open to elaborating on what, what was the inspiration behind this? section and anything that comes to mind of what inspired you to write this particular paragraph?

• Speaker #1

  This was a huge one as it led to this utter feeling behind why I wanted to write this book was there was something magical about the number 40 for me where I realized, wow, I'm 40 years old and I still feel like I have not done enough. I'm good enough. I'm worthy enough. I've made enough people happy. And I do not want to feel that way anymore. I never did want to feel that way, but I was just moving along and doing all the things and thinking that that was my job as a person, as a woman. But there was something magical again about that 40 mark because what an honor to reach this age too. And while we never know if we're in the middle of our lives, if we're technically in midlife, because as we've all known, we've lost people way too young. So midlife for them was... way too young. It wasn't this 40 marker. But if we get here, we do know the average lifespan for a woman in the Western world is 80. And so we are at this middle point if we're lucky. And that's a wake-up call to make you stop and go, wow, why am I completely white-knuckling it and hustling and breaking myself and putting the drops of water and fuel into everyone else's lake? And I just... don't feel as though I'm worthy to put them into my lake. And I just learned, I don't want to do that anymore. And I know I'm not alone in this. And so how can I really start to unravel myself from this? Another part of it as well is, am I selfish? We think as women, if we want all these things and we want to take care of ourselves, sometimes we think we're selfish and we're starting to see we're not selfish. We're actually really Giving ourselves the ability to not only be bigger and bolder in this life, but to then better show up for the people we love and to set examples for women who are younger than us, too. But the work thing is huge because it's such a parallel and such. It's so illustrative of how we kind of feel about ourselves. And so we can find a lot in when we really parse our world of work and careers and all the ways we've been hustling. I think we can start to really see. I want to put these things down. I don't want to do this anymore. I don't want to feel this way anymore.

• Speaker #0

  Hi, creative. If listening to this conversation is stirring something up in you and you're realizing you want support bringing your own creative vision to life, I would love to help. In my creative coaching practice, I work with artists, entrepreneurs, leaders, multi-passionate humans, and people in the middle of major life transitions who know that there's something inside of them that they want to express, but they need help to get unstuck, get clear, and actually start moving. Whether you're trying to start a project, make a career pivot, reconnect with your creativity, or trust yourself more deeply, this is the work we can do together. My approach blends creative strategy, mindset, and deep inner work. So we make the project, but you're not just making things. You're also becoming more fully yourself in the process. If that calls to you, I would love to connect. You can book a free 15-minute discovery call at laurenlagrasso.com or by emailing me lauren.lagrasso at gmail.com. Okay, back to the show. I've always known what I wanted really strongly since I was little. And I've struggled with codependency. And I genuinely love to be of service. And I love seeing people and helping them, you know, bring themselves out into the world. And that can feel deeply fulfilling. But when you're not seen back in one of those roles, it just feels like you're in this weird, crunchy box. And basically, it's servant energy. And and I I've had to get out of that in the past few years and be like, OK, you talk. This is great. This is a great little transition. You talk a lot about Autumn Queen. It's like, how do I get out of this? Like I'm going to second generation Italian American. How do I get out of this like donkey or mule energy that my people come from where we just work and work and work and work and work and work ourselves into the ground and are always just like making ourselves small to make sure we can do the work where we're. putting the raindrops in other people's lakes? And how do I instead step into this queen-like energy where I'm still of service, but knowing my worth and seeing myself and yes, dropping into other people's lakes, but making sure I'm tending to my own first?

• Speaker #1

  It's such a beautiful point because it isn't this or that, right? As you say, we still want to care for people. That's in our nature. And I know that's in your nature. I mean, I've known you now for some time and I see how you love to spotlight people and you love to help lift their tides. And that's part of the kind of goes back to the selfishness comment I said, because we're not being selfish by really filling our own lakes. We're actually really being even more giving in a sense. The thing I have learned in writing this book and in the past several years is so much of this, if not all of it, comes down to respect. So much of what women endure and marginalized people endure, it's a lack of respect. It's we're up against this system that has been set up not to complement who we are in any way. It's been set up only to serve a very small group and all the others don't get opportunities, but also just don't get the respect. And so with this autumn queen energy, and I love that. I love my autumn queen. I love her in general. It's about saying, no, I demand. the respect because I demand the space and I demand the opportunity to say, this is me. And I want the world to see that and respect that. And then also when I do that, and then I can continue to fully give to other people. But it's the respect thing. Because when we keep feeding other people, when we keep putting everyone first, but we don't get the respect back, and sometimes we may get the thanks, right? And individuals may recognize us, but still when society doesn't fully recognize us. and society sort of makes us feel like we just should be doing that. Again, that's a lie. That can be really demeaning and it can break us. And then when we make that shift and see, no, I deserve this respect. I deserve the spotlight. I deserve everything I crave as a human being. That just is really filling and fueling. And it's been huge. But the respect thing is everything for me. And I realize when I get frustrated, even still now in work, in relationships, whatever it may be. I think, okay, what's really going on here? I'll ask myself. And a lot of times it's when I feel like I'm not getting that respect just as a person.

• Speaker #0

  What is your first move when you realize you're in a situation of lack of respect or disrespect?

• Speaker #1

  I'll call, I'll tap into my autumn queen.

• Speaker #0

  Let's define that for people too, just so they know. It's so good. Oh,

• Speaker #1

  I love this. Gosh, It's so good. So. I interviewed this incredible women's coach, Steph Jagger, and I always love to credit her because she was the one who introduced me to what the Autumn Queen is. So thank you, Steph. In traditional mythological storytelling, we hear these archetypes used to define women and the phases of a woman's life very loosely. But we know that there's the maiden, mother, crone. And these are all gorgeous compilations of traits and energies that loosely correlate to age. But when I say loosely, you can kind of feel this archetypal energy throughout any time of your life. So for instance, the maiden. loosely correlates to a woman who is younger and it's this kind of blooming blossoming energy the mother really speaks for itself but it's a little bit later in life maybe 20s 30s and that's this real nurturing and procreative energy and then there's the crone which is also gorgeous and that is the wiser elderly woman and who carries this wisdom and the storytelling these are all incredible but what steph told me when I found more in my research too, is they actually, the time of our late 30s to really around maybe like early 50s, even mid 50s, it lacks an archetype. Society wants to take us from the mother energy and sort of push us into crone too early. And it really, the 40s deserve this other archetype, which is then the autumn queen. And this is the time of absolute, utter fierceness, creativity, deep self-respect. Again, there's that word respect. and knowing yourself. And the beautiful part Steph showed me, she said, the reason why there isn't an archetype in storytelling is because this is actually one of our most intimidating times when we're in our late 30s and 40s and early 50s. And so the patriarchal world is like, no, no, no, that's too intimidating. We don't want to give her and, you know, we want to push her into crone too soon. But yeah.

• Speaker #0

  Don't push me into crone society.

• Speaker #1

  And I can't wait to be into, I cannot wait to be, but I'm not there yet. I'm in a different time right now, you know?

• Speaker #0

  It's inaccurate.

• Speaker #1

  So the art, so the autumn queen. So I bring her into the book and say, you know, think about your autumn queen. What does she look like? What does she wear? How does she act in meanings and in times of injustice and during hard times? How does she carry herself? She's just this wise, self-knowing, gorgeous goddess. And so I think of her, mine, for whatever reason, she's always wearing vintage Levi's because I think. That's just what I love to wear. She's always wearing a white t-shirt and she's just so cool. So I'll channel her like, okay, I'll tap into her. How will she carry herself in this situation?

• Speaker #0

  And if someone wants to meet their own autumn queen, what would be a good way to start doing it? Would it just be visualizing or journaling? How do you recommend someone go on this journey?

• Speaker #1

  Think about the things that make you proud that you have within you that maybe you don't feel the world sees enough. but you know you carry. Whatever it might be, a deep creativity, it may be a yearning to connect people deeply, whatever it may be. Think about those traits that you have. Those are real. Those are inside you. Your autumn queen embodies those. Think about the moments and the situations where you feel the most beautiful and empowered. And it can be anything too. It can be... with other people. It can be hiking the mountains of Montana. It can be surfing the ocean. It can be taking a quiet art class, whatever it is, and take these, that kind of positive, gorgeous energy and combine that all. And that, that is your autumn queen. And then kind of add details to her too, just what she looks like and what she's wearing and again, how she carries herself. And that's your, just your inner wise archetype. And she's always there for you.

• Speaker #0

  It's you. I just had an idea for you. I feel like you should do an autumn queen workshop where you help people meet their autumn queen.

• Speaker #1

  I want to do that with you. That'd be cool.

• Speaker #0

  I would love that.

• Speaker #1

  That would be amazing.

• Speaker #0

  We should chat offline. But yeah, some sort of visualization, but also an embodiment practice. I can see it. Let's discuss.

• Speaker #1

  No, it's such a great idea, Lauren. The truth is we do think about this. Maybe we just don't realize we think about it, but we think about how we want to be in situations. Sometimes, I mean, I know there's been so many times where I've envisioned myself being the rock star, you know, singing on stage, singing. That's part of my autumn queen. We think about powerful parts of ourselves all the time. So it's actually really honoring that and letting that fuel us more. It's really cool.

• Speaker #0

  I just love the idea of actually personifying it. too though so you have a visual because that's so powerful in those moments i had a moment earlier this week where somebody challenged my pricing for something that i know i'm very qualified to do and if they if the price wasn't right for them that's totally fair but the way in which they did it was felt very demeaning to me And having my image of the autumn queen and thinking about my reply would be so powerful because then I can come from a real place of self-respect, respect for the other, and just like neutrality of not even explaining, but just saying like, this is what it is. So I feel like it's so beautiful to have that personification and that image in your head so you can know who is standing beside you or who is inside of you. I guess.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah. And it also makes you proud of yourself, right? So you're in that situation and somebody challenges your pricing and you call in this wise, gorgeous goddess energy that again, is, is you ultimately that is you it's truth. And hopefully she'll help you carry yourself in that situation in a way that makes you feel proud and that you can look back on and think, okay, I handled that. Well,

• Speaker #0

  yeah,

• Speaker #1

  I'm proud of myself. I stood up for myself.

• Speaker #0

  Right. So speaking of stepping forward and remembering your most powerful self, there's so much of you in this book, Stacey, and you were so brave in what you shared. And I know that's hard, especially as somebody who's told a lot of other people's stories to finally tell your own. How did you get to a place? Well, first of all, how did you know you wanted to do that? But then how did you get to a place where you had the courage to share that vulnerably?

• Speaker #1

  I hid behind other people's stories for so long. And it's fascinating when we look back at our lives and the themes, because I think that's one of the reasons why I've always wanted to be a journalist and chose to be a journalist, because it did allow me in a way to be curious about the world, but then also hide behind other people's stories, even though I really wanted to tell my own story, right, for so long. And in the process of writing this, too, I'm so proud of all the interviews. all the interviews I conducted and all the things women shared with me. And it just sort of weaved together in this quilt of a book that their stories are everything. But every manuscript draft, and I'm smiling because I'm thinking of my amazing editor, Cassidy, she would say, you know, we need a little bit more, or what do you mean by that? Or I would sprinkle in little bits of myself, but it wasn't enough. And then I realized. Yeah, my story is one of countless stories, but there's going to be, again, so many parallels. I know the stuff that I faced and this messiness and all of that. I'm not alone in this. And I hit a point, and I think it was maybe draft number four, but I hit a point where I thought, go big, really tell it or put it down. Because don't write a book that is vapid or glossy. At least this is my opinion. Go there. And these stories that I share, I don't think a lot of them are pretty. But you can't worry about how people are going to perceive you. I think the thing is, I was sharing this not out of a need for catharsis, even though it was cathartic. I was really sharing this to say, I have been really messy in my life. I am coming up against a lot of this. And I know in my bones that if I share this with you, hopefully maybe you'll share this with yourself more, reader. And so it was definitely, it was a process and it was hard. But I went there and hopefully it was worth it.

• Speaker #0

  It was so I mean, it was it was so powerful because I mean, in my memory, and maybe this isn't even true, but you started with the story of your mom and and what happened there. And it would be great if you would share it. But I've been I've been working on especially I do public speaking and in my speaking, sharing my own story more. It's it's scary because I always want to be, again, of service. you Sharing your own story is one of the best ways to be of service because first of all, people instantly feel connected to you. Second of all, who better to teach whatever it is you're teaching than somebody who has been through and had these hard won lessons. But yeah, I mean, if you're open to sharing it, because I would think that, you know, the story of what you went through with your mom when you're in high school might have been an inciting incident for this curiosity around 40 as well. Would you share that story?

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, my mother, she made the radical decision to leave when I was in high school. I was 16 and it was drastic. It was quite honestly just overnight. I had been away for the weekend with my boyfriend at the time and his parents. And I remember my boyfriend dropping me off at home. I remember it so clearly walking up the stairs, feeling something felt off. And then opening the door and seeing my father sitting there and seeing most of the furniture gone from our house. And my father said she left. And I didn't know at the time the grief and all the feelings that I would actually go through and feel. I mean, I was just a teenager looking to move forward with every hour, you know, and your brain's not fully formed, too. So I'm thinking of school and my boyfriend and all the things that I had to do. But it was devastating for obvious reasons. But it was ultimately devastating to see she was and is an incredible person. She literally did the best she could, but she had. to leave because she was a woman in crisis. And to offer more background, I grew up in a very beautiful upbringing in the sense we wanted for nothing. We had food on the table. We had warmth. We had birthday parties. We had love. With all that, my father was an alcoholic and that ultimately took his life. But so much so that I would find bottles hidden throughout the house everywhere. And he was very, very kind to me and my brother. But there was an immense tension in our house between my father and my mother, constant fighting, constant fighting about bills and money and drinking. And I knew things just didn't feel right. But again, I'm a kid, so I didn't know how to voice that. And what do you do too? That's just what you know. But my mother was up against a lot. She was up against doing all the right things, being a good woman, being a good mother, checking these boxes, but she was stifled. She was you dealing with things that I still don't even know the full magnitude of what she was dealing with. And I do have to underscore again, my father was a really good man too. He was facing his demons, but expressing them through drinking. And so one day she left and she so happened to be in her late forties. And that was obviously such a defining moment in my life because I learned the consequences one faces if they do do all. the right things in the face of trying to be a good person, but what they actually sacrifice in terms of their own joy, their own happiness, their own emotional safety. And it's been a story that I have been carrying with me and probably will carry with me my entire life because it's been the ultimate cautionary tale for me. I don't ever want to let myself get to the point where my mother got to that it got so bad she had to leave. worked on our relationship for years and we have an incredible relationship now and I dedicate the book to her you know and she's she's weaved throughout the pages but it was huge and she the beautiful part is her bravery and wanting to talk about it she wanted to share her story she wanted me to formally interview her for the book she wanted to express the guilt she has around this but also what she learned about herself and what she wants other women to know

• Speaker #0

  I mean First of all, you are an incredible human being because the way you can hold compassion and reality of a situation for all people, but especially for your parents, like holding that they're human and they deserve compassion and respect and that they were these loving parents. And there were these really hard things that happened that affected you adversely is something that I think we all. strive to do as people because it's never one thing. It's always multiple things, no matter the situation. So I just have so much respect for that. And there's so much love written into the words of this book. Another thing that strikes me about all the stories you share is how amazing you've been at holding on to your sparkle, to your goodness, to your love, to your belief in people. Even when people like disappointed you so greatly, You always have. found a way to hold on to love. And that is so rare. So many people who've been through what you've been through would get bitter and start hating people. And the fact that you not only did that for others, but now have found a way to pour it back into yourself is incredibly inspiring.

• Speaker #1

  Thank you, Lauren. Thank you so, so, so much. It takes work. It hasn't been easy by any means, but I know. From the people I've lost in my life way too young, my father being one of those people, and from seeing the pain people are in in this life all the time. For whatever reason, I've been gifted this beautiful life that hasn't had a lot of pain. It has had some pain in it, but it hasn't had the pain that other people have. have experienced and continue experience on a daily basis and I just think I am so fortunate and I can't waste this on anger and I felt a lot of anger but I can't waste it on anger consuming me and resentment consuming me but again it takes work I'm going through something right now quite honestly that it's challenging like me I want to lead with love I want to lead with generosity and I want to lead in a way where I want somebody else to treat me And I'm being challenged right now. And I got to remind myself and to do the work around it. But I just think at the end of the day, there's not a single person out there who wants to feel bad. Nobody wants to feel bad. And so how can we do the work in our lives to prevent ourselves from feeling bad? And then also, if we can just be a little kinder to other people and a little more gracious with what they're going through.

• Speaker #0

  How do, because one thing that has caused me the most pain in my life is when somebody treats me in a way I never would have even thought to have done, let alone done. Like how, and it sounds like there's maybe flavors of this in the situation you're going through. How do you hold on to compassion and not just devolve into hurt when you're in a situation like that where someone is treating you in a way that is totally out of. the realm of possibility of how you'd ever treat another human being.

• Speaker #1

  I think of that person as a kid. It always helps. And it doesn't justify what they're doing. It doesn't make it okay. But it really takes the sting away. When you see that person as just a little girl, a little boy, what have you. who is lacking the tools to show up with courage, who's lacking the tools in that moment to show up with respect and generosity in a way you really want. We really want all of, I wanna be operating that way as we all do, but sometimes we just don't have the tools. And when you see somebody as a kid, it can kind of just make you realize, okay, this is really crappy what this person is doing and I don't like it and I'm not gonna absorb it. I'm not gonna accept it. But at the same time, I'm it's going to help me deal with massive resentment and hate. And it's going to actually help me navigate around it a little bit better. Almost treat that person, not with kid gloves, but just with, okay, you're not really making the best decisions right now. I'm going to remove myself from the situation and I wish you well, but also at the end of the day, you're just a, you're just a child getting through this life, you know? So that, that helps. That really helps.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. Yeah. I've done that. I haven't done that in like the you most treacherous situations, which I totally should. But I've done that when people are like slightly annoying me. I'm like, oh, you're just like a little kid on the playground right now. And it really does work. So I'm going to try that next time someone hurts my feelings deeply. So how or why do you think the 40s do wake people up? You interviewed so many people. You've got your own experience. What is it about that decade that just you can't live a life? fly anymore. Like anything you've been pushing down comes to the surface.

• Speaker #1

  It is in part the number. And again, there is something magical about, whoa, I'm in my 40s. It's a pretty big number. So you can't deny that. At the same time, it's always been that sticky point for so long that that's the age, that's the number that you're either in front of or behind. And society is so mean, particularly to women, if you are behind it. Meaning if you are 40 and then in your 40s, like, whoa, that's the push out year. That's the year that you are over the hill. That's the year that you're told things start getting stale and, you know, you just got to expect it all downhill from now. And then when we see that's actually not true at all. We see the reality of so many women blossoming and changing and leaving and doing incredible things in their 40s. And so I think this awakening around it right now cannot. be denied. It's incredible. I just want more of the storytelling to catch up to it because we're seeing the reality. We're just not seeing enough storytelling to support and to kind of perpetuate that reality. And so I just look around and I just see it as this incredibly, massively amazing, magical time. Also, there's no denying that life gets harder in your 40s and 50s, maybe two and 60s. So we are equipped to handle the hard better. But still, life gets harder. Life gets harder because pressures around family and changing relationships. Our bodies are physically changing. It's different for every woman. But for most, if not all women, at some point in our 40s, you're going to be going through hormonal fluctuations. And you cannot deny with that that you need to take care of yourself. And just that actually will change your moods around how you show up at work and your relationships and how you feel about things. So it's a whole constellation. of things in this decade. That's pretty freaking amazing, right? And there just is, Lauren, I don't know what it is. There's... This incredible, I call it primal desire just to put down, as you say, a life lie. I just, I have no capacity to carry it anymore. No capacity at all. I'm done. And it just seems to happen in our 40s.

• Speaker #0

  Well, that's encouraging.

• Speaker #1

  It's fun. And I'll say, it's not old. That's the other thing too. We're told, oh my gosh, you're 40, all that. This is young. this is young. It just is.

• Speaker #0

  Can I tell you the truth? So I got married last summer and okay, let me backtrack first. When I was 25, I felt elderly. I was scared to tell people I was 25. I was putting so much pressure on myself. I felt so behind. I was like, what am I doing? What's wrong with me? I'm not where I should be. Because of this, I felt old. I felt so, so old. As I've grown into my 30s, I feel like every year I feel younger to the point where when I got married at 36, I actually, and this is not a joke, I had the thought, am I too young to be married? I literally in earnest thought that the day of my wedding. And then I was like, oh no, you're okay. But I was just like, I'm just so young. Like, I don't know. It just feels like, like I felt like a teen bride. It was crazy. I had the same thought when I got pregnant at 36 and three quarters. I'm like, am I too young to be a mother? I'm just a child myself, you know? And it's so interesting to me that this is the age where I should start getting scared because I'm in my late thirties and the forties are coming, but I feel younger. I honestly even feel younger than I did as a teenager. I put so much pressure on myself. And for me, the youthful feeling and why I feel like I'm getting younger with age comes because I've taken off the burdens of caring so deeply what other people think of me. I still care a little. I'm not, you know, an ascended master. I'm still working on it every day. But in your book, it read to me like every year and especially every year you get into your 40s, those burdens come off more and more and you're able to step toward, again, who you've always been, but who the world knocked out of you.

• Speaker #1

  Who the world knocked out of you so beautifully put. It's so true. I'm with you. I feel younger too. Because inside me, that was the other funny thing that happened. When I turned 40, I thought, what? I'm 17. I act like I'm 12 half the time. And some days maybe I act like I'm 26. I don't know. That's not going away. This threat of immaturity, you know, this child inside me. But I'm with you. I feel younger in a lot of ways. And I feel as though when we let go of the stories and all this junk. it lets our spirit kind of come fully alive. And so, so much of that is youthfulness and vitality and longevity and all that juiciness. I love it. I love that you thought, am I too young to get married at 36? That's so cool.

• Speaker #0

  I was scared. I was like, oh my gosh, I'm so young. I hope I'm not making a mistake. No, I'm kidding. I knew I wasn't making a mistake marrying my husband, but I was just like, I don't know. I don't know what came over me that day. I remember I was getting ready and I had that thought. So anyway. The other thing I love that you talk about in the book is how the 40s are an incredible time for unleashing creativity. And I just would love for you to speak a little bit to that because I actually had a friend say to me recently, she also wants to start her own business. And she's like, I just feel like it's too late for me. And I sent her some statistics and the statistics say that most people start businesses in their 40s. So it's not like this young person's game. look like to make it look that way and the fancy magazine spreads and social media posts, but there's something there. So what did you find in your interviews about why this is a particularly fruitful time to unleash your creativity?

• Speaker #1

  It's fruitful for a lot of reasons. Again, we're coming into ourselves more as we've been talking about for a long time now. We're coming into ourselves more so we know more what we don't want as much as what we do want. And when we really have that creativity and when we really have that clarity, that fuels more spark to say, I want to do this. I want to pick this up. I want to go after this. And then also I don't want to deal with this anymore. So there's a lot of knowing and clarity around that.

• Speaker #0

  The fun part about this, too, is to actually just call bull on the story that it's too late because we're told again, you do this in your 20s and then you build more in your 30s. And then by the time you're in your 40s, you should just be all set and settled and everything's figured out and then it's done. And then it's just a sleigh ride until what you die. That's not true. Like, what? Are you kidding me? No, that's not true at all.

• Speaker #1

  It also sounds boring when you put it that way.

• Speaker #0

  So boring, right? So incredibly boring. But it's also the patriarchy just saying, nope, you. And then also the world telling us, too, that by the time we're not no longer having kids and that, again, is wildly different for every woman. I have some friends who are having babies in their late 40s. I don't even want to put a number on it. You have children as long as you want to and can, whether it's naturally or adopting or whatever that is. I mean, I am so done with women putting a cap on when they become mothers. Right. The world has put that on us.

• Speaker #1

  I got a lot of thoughts there.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. I mean, it's just the world saying you should just be, you know, kind of hit cruise control. And no way. And that's where the autumn queen comes into play. There's this just primal surge of creativity that happens. And a lot of this also, I think, is fueled by we're not going to put our energy toward the stuff that doesn't matter anymore. because we have too much of a need to put our energy toward the stuff that... does matter and is hard and is important. And whether that is our own physical health, as we've talked about, whether that's aging parents, whether that's children, new babies, kids in their teens, older kids, whatever that is, they all need our attention, our partnerships. We have to focus on these things. We can't be playing around anymore with these old stories. And so when we really do focus on that, and then we see, oh my gosh, what also really matters is that I start paying attention to this insane fire inside of me too. paint more or to work with food or to work with animals or to stop doing this and start doing this. So it's a constellation of so many things, but you can't deny it too, which is really gorgeous to see. Women can no longer deny this creative spark. And it doesn't always have to correlate with your job. It can, but it's also seeing, okay, I work this job, it pays me, it puts food on my table, but are there some ways that maybe I can have it? take a little less from me, whether it's the time you work, putting a cap on emails, whatever it may be. So then I can allow for more time in my life to feed this creative fire I have outside of work. So that's the other important part of this.

• Speaker #1

  Feed the fire, my darlings, feed the fire. A big part of the show, I say that this is a show about creativity and self-development. It lives at the intersection of the two because I think the two are intrinsically connected. A big part of what I try to do for people on the show is give them tools to love themselves, trust themselves, and know themselves enough to first hear the creative call and then answer it. What would be your advice to somebody on how to start to step more toward self-love, self-trust, and self-knowledge?

• Speaker #0

  I do this practice probably several times a week. It's very simple. It costs nothing. I go outside and I look up at the sky and I just allow myself to do this just for a couple of minutes. It doesn't have to be some woo-woo dorky thing or whatnot. It is very simple. I just look up and it reminds me that there's something so much bigger than me at play. The universe is there. It's real. And it reminds me too that each of our parts is to be in simpatico with the universe. And in doing that, that means to really listen to ourselves and to really listen to our creativity and to really take care of ourselves. But it's just that practice, Lauren, of going outside and looking up at the sky, or even if you're not able to, just looking out at the window and looking up and seeing, okay, there's, again, this beautiful universe at play and I'm part of it. And it also helps me divorce myself from the minutiae of comparison, social media. What does she think of me? What do they think of me? Am I doing enough? It takes you out of that and just puts you into something so much bigger and spiritual. And in doing that, it's really helped me feed my self-love. And then another part is, and I actively do this every day, is to remember that the noise out there, again, social media and the perfect glossy photos, the vacations in Positano. The posts about all the accomplishments, which are gorgeous, all gorgeous things, but they obviously make up this picture in my mind, I know, that I'm never doing enough. Like, why am I not on vacation at Positano, right? Why did I not get the name that award or whatnot? And then I realized that this has actually nothing to do with me at all. Social media is not real life. It's beautiful. I post on social media, but it's not, it doesn't encapsulate the real messy rawness of life. And I just remind myself that that is not real life. My life is real life. And my life is just as great as everyone else's life. And I just have to trust myself. I have to really trust myself and be kind to myself. It's easier to do this some days more than others. But it does work. It works to physically put my phone down and just to remind myself I'm worthy of all this beauty. I'm worthy to feel good.

• Speaker #1

  I love that. So remember, you are one with the universe and you are real and you are worthy. So good. Stacey, is there anything else you want to share about this powerful decade, this work, or any final message you'd love to give the creative cuties?

• Speaker #0

  The creative cuties, no matter your age, I want you to know that you are right on time. You are not late. You can be late for a dinner reservation, you know, a dinner date, but you're not late in life. And I thought that for so long and I realized, no, I'm right on time in my own life. So I want you to know that. And I want you to know that you can start anything you want in the smallest ways you can start it this afternoon, tonight. tomorrow morning, whatever it may be, you can start taking a risk to get closer to yourself and to get closer to somebody else too. There's all these small ways and I unpack them in the book, but it's never, it's always the right time to get closer to yourself. And I want you to know that again, no matter your age, whether you're in front of your forties, you're in your forties, your forties are behind you, that the end of the day, you deserve to have a good time. So what are the things that you can put down to you. that are just getting in the way of having a good time. And I realized that Lauren, sometimes, for instance, if I'm getting ready to go out to dinner and I'm just feeling crappy that day, like nothing feels good. I don't like my body that day. You know, the stuff that the critical stuff, I actually have a lot of self-compassion and I go, okay, Stacey, let's put this down just for tonight. Let's just put these stories down, put something on that you do feel free in and go let yourself have a good time because we don't have enough of that in this life. Let's all have more fun.

• Speaker #1

  Ooh, let yourself have a good time. I think that we all need a little bit more of that, especially in the particular timeline we're in. It's okay to still have fun and joy. And in fact, we need it in order to get through the hard things. Thank you. I needed to hear that today. I needed to hear everything today. I wish I could talk to you for a billion hours. Please, I'm begging you, listener, please go get Stacey's book. It is so incredible. It is about yes, the power and the beauty of your 40s, but it's also just about how to be yourself and to take off all the layers that someone put on you that were never you. And we all need that regardless of your gender, regardless of your age, your place in life. Please get this book. It is a powerful homecoming. I love you. I have always just thought you were so special, but reading this book took me even deeper into what a incredible human being and creative you are and sitting with you has been just a privilege. Thank you for being here. But most importantly, thank you for being who you are.

• Speaker #0

  Lauren, thank you. Thank you for sharing your light with this world. Love hanging out with you. This has been a good time.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah.

• Speaker #0

  Thank you so, so, so much. You're incredible.

• Speaker #1

  Thank you, my friend. All right. Talk soon. Talk soon. There you have it, my conversation with the brilliant and incredible Stacey Lindsay. One of my biggest takeaways from this conversation is that so much of our lives are spent trying to be who we think we're supposed to be. The good daughter, the good mother, the good wife, the good employee, the good woman. And while there's nothing wrong with any of those things, somewhere along the way, many of us lose touch with who we actually are. What I love about Stacey's message is that you getting older isn't about becoming less relevant, less vibrant, or more creative. It's actually about becoming more of all of those things. And most importantly, and ultimately, becoming more yourself. Whatever your age is, it's always the right time to come home to yourself. I hope you start today. Please, please go follow Stacey and pick up her beautiful new book, Being 40, The Decade of Letting Go and Embracing Who We Are. You can connect with Stacey and learn more about her work on Instagram at Stacey Lindsay and through Maria Shriver's Sunday paper. If this episode resonated, send it to a fellow creative and share it on socials. Give us a rating and review on Apple and also a rating on Spotify, as well as some comments on Spotify. Everything makes a difference, helps us get out to more people, and you're helping make the show better when you share some feedback in that way. You can find us at Unleash Your Inner Creative and at Lauren LaGrasso. Unleash Your Inner Creative is hosted and executive produced by me, Lauren LaGrasso, edited by Blondel Garcon, with theme music by Liz Fole. I love you and I believe in you. I'll talk with you next week.