Transcription

• Speaker #0

  All right. Hello, Antoine.

• Speaker #1

  Hello, Antoine.

• Speaker #0

  Thank you very much for being with us. Most of the time, I say thank you for welcoming us because I always love to go see the domains and the estate. But this time, we're not in Burgundy. We are actually in the center of Hong Kong. So thank you very much for coming to Hong Kong.

• Speaker #1

  So it's my pleasure to come and meet you in Hong Kong. So really happy.

• Speaker #0

  Great. So you told me you landed like two days ago to visit this market, then go to... Macau, South Korea, so it's kind of your Asian travel of the year, I guess.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, it's my first vintage, so I want to present also my work, my vision. So it was a good opportunity to come and see a bit of the Asian market and my customers, my partners. And so we made this tour.

• Speaker #0

  Amazing. So we'll talk about all of this. But first, can you start by introducing yourself?

• Speaker #1

  Yes, so I'm going to have to know a PO. coming from an old family of Chassé-Moraché in Burgundy. So I'm the fifth generation who are working in the wine industry. Many domains are also coming from this branch, because you know in Burgundy all the branches are quite connected. So I'm from the domain Jean-Marc Piot. Jean-Marc Piot is my father, son of Jean Piot, my grandfather, and that's where the branch is coming. We are running 12 hectares in Burgundy, mainly in Chassé-Moraché. And now I'm in charge of the winemaking since 2021. So it's become quite fun. And now I have to go inside the work and let's start it.

• Speaker #0

  And so you've always wanted to work in the wine industry when you were a kid and stuff, because I guess you grew up in the vines or around the winemaking and stuff. Is it something you always wanted to do?

• Speaker #1

  I always liked the wines, the wine energy, the sociality of the wine. But you have also this part of the work which is quite hard in the vineyard. So my family asked me to go very early in the vineyard also. So you could question a bit yourself. And to be honest, I was always a bit in the mind of coming back. But it's when I went... abroad that I really understood that

• Speaker #0

  I could never go away from Burgundy and wine when business so so at first you told me just before that you actually studied not directly in wine because we were talking just before the interviews about your knowledge of Asia where you've been and everything so you told me that you went to South Korea when you were a student so I guess you did like business school or something like that

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, I studied business for a few years and I went to an exchange in South Korea. And so it was good fun, but it made me realize that I really want to come back into the wine family business. And that helped me to finally decide to go back and start this wine part. And after I studied in the wine productions, the wine selling, and finally I came back to the estates.

• Speaker #0

  And so you did a... So you did business and then after that you did agronomy, something like

• Speaker #1

  DNO? I had a viticulture and oenology diploma and I also did a license of wine selling.

• Speaker #0

  Okay.

• Speaker #1

  So I worked also in a wine shop for a year to understand a bit the wine. The good wine in Burgundy was a very good wine list of wines. So it was also very interesting. I work for another big... company in Burgundy was Bouchard Perifis.

• Speaker #0

  Okay.

• Speaker #1

  So it was very good also to understand a bit all those terroirs of Burgundy because you know Bouchard was 130 hectares. So from the Côte de Bonne to the North Côte de Nuit so it was also very interesting and I had a vintage abroad in Tasmania in Australia.

• Speaker #0

  Oh amazing.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah so

• Speaker #0

  Working Chardonnay as well?

• Speaker #1

  Chardonnay and Pinot Noir. I really wanted to have something quite... Similar with the climate of Burgundy, something quite fresh, and where they are working, Pinot and Chardonnay. So I found, thanks to a winemaker, Pierre-Yves Collin, who told me to go to Tasmania. It's a very cool place. So I went there and I had good fun with the Poully family. very nice people.

• Speaker #0

  For us, it's amazing to be in Hong Kong because we discover wines from all around the world. And when we're in France, we only taste French wine, which are obviously amazing and diverse enough. But the fact of being here, it's really been eye-opening to us that France is just one part of the winemaking countries. And then we have the opportunities to go to Australia. We have a lot of Australian wines. New Zealand, South African, even American wines. And so it's so great to have a wider benchmark on wine, discover new things. Very recently, we drank Australian wines, and it was really amazing.

• Speaker #1

  That's true that in Burgundy, we don't have this chance for the moment, but some wine shops have also developed themselves a bit. So we have now German wines, some Spanish, Italian wines. So we are trying to be more curious. But I have this curiosity since I worked in this wine shop and I still work that. And I really like to drink many wines of everywhere. So it's fine.

• Speaker #0

  So how is it to tell to your father that you want to join the family business? You're the only child?

• Speaker #1

  No, no. I have one older brother who is not in the family business. Okay, you don't want to join. He's working as an engineer or something else.

• Speaker #0

  That's romantic.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, it's a hard job. But when I really understood that my brother would not come back, I think something passed in me and I just realized that I will go because I didn't want to be the generation who stopped the family business. So I asked my father to come back and try myself into the vineyard, doing the basic work for the beginning. So they kind of test me for a year. And after I went to all the schools, and I came back with ideas in mind, and I'm starting my tries, many things. We went, for example, organic since 21, and we are now certified. And that's something I really go into when I came back in 2019 on the estate. So big work in the vineyard first, and after the winemaking followed.

• Speaker #0

  So tell me, how is it to, like you arrive, your father has been managing the business for like, I guess, 20 years or 30 years or something like that. You arrive with your ideas. How is it at this point? Is it an easy conversation? No, no,

• Speaker #1

  it could be sometimes very, very hard on some subjects. But I have the chance that my father still, sometimes it's... taking time but he's comprehensive because we can talk finally about wine the producing is his thing so he's quite open with that um he's also okay for the blind testing so we did a lot of blend blind testing for example of some new barrels i tried which were bigger barrels so we made some tries about that with wines from other guys who are working for example in organic when he don't want to really go inside of it. so with my work my tries, my ideas our conversation and our testings because I think we are too passionate of wine and we are two wine drinkers and wine lovers so that's why that's what helped me to finally put my ideas into the family business I also was with the team a lot to explain them why we are doing some things differently and it takes time but if you I think are quite sure to go in the right direction. You just have to prove it. And that's quite easy if you have someone who understands. So that was the case.

• Speaker #0

  All good things take time. So I guess it's part of it. So first thing you do is transfer to organic. So it's not yet the case for this first wine that you're releasing to the market because you were not...

• Speaker #1

  certified i guess at that point uh we you started the shift i guess but yeah not satisfied this is not certified yet yeah but because 24 is the first one they are not releasing for the moment they are still in barrels and it takes three years right yeah yeah three years so um yeah this is not but it was uh it's in on his way i mean uh on those vintage so already working like that yeah working like that but you don't have the certification because it takes years and to pass a test and and everything.

• Speaker #0

  Okay, so this was the first thing, then changing the aging process. Not changing, but like testing the aging process in different... Yeah,

• Speaker #1

  so it brings many things with you when you... You go organic because you add, I think, more work in the vineyards. So following that, you always carry a bit more into the winemaking too. For example, we go with indigenous yeast since we are in organic. And that helps us to have different types of fermentations. We change a bit the wines, the energy of the wines. And that's also what my father agreed with when we finally had the first wines doing like that. And he was quite happy now with the new. new style of fermentation that we have.

• Speaker #0

  Can you describe for the people watching the difference between yeast, how do you say,

• Speaker #1

  like the selection one or the natural one? Natural ones or the indigenous are more the natural ones coming from the fruits or the cellars you have, and that's sometimes yeast I would say not stronger like the selection one, but it It can make some fermentation quite longer and give you more complexity finally into the wine. So that's changed. Also, another thing is that those longer fermentations bring you some CO2, which is now really important. I think we will go after on the global warming maybe. But that helps to have a sensation of freshness in the palate, the CO2, the natural one you create with the fermentation, and help to balance finally the wine. So that's a big change also. I bring many things in the winemaking also. For example, I told you just before, but the bigger of the barrels. So we choose now a bigger size. So we are using 350 liters, not the classic Burgundy barrels, and also some fooder. So big, big wood tanks of 1,000, 1,200 liters, something like that, will help to have a better wood integration.

• Speaker #0

  sensation of freshness in the palate for the tasting after and yeah and yeah maybe something a bit less exuberant in terms of of food because sometimes when you drink a bergamot white it's a lot of a lot of food in the in the mouth which is sometimes amazing but uh

• Speaker #1

  you need to find the sweet spot and the elegance that that you want yeah no the wood you you you true sometimes with the the warm vintage the wood could be something quite unbalanced and it's better to to manage it I think in another way now.

• Speaker #0

  So you've grown up in Chassagne-Montrachet?

• Speaker #1

  Yeah.

• Speaker #0

  Can you describe Chassagne-Montrachet for our audience? It's a small village with a church.

• Speaker #1

  It's a small village. We changed a lot since the last 10 years or 5 years. We have a new generation, so mine generation is coming back to Chassagne. We are 10, 12, I think, taking back the estates. two of them create some restaurant uh some uh one one restaurant and wine bar and one wine bar you have a bakery so chess has become quite uh yeah we are just 280 people but we have a very dynamic village where people are i think uh are all appreciate each other's and that's make the difference we have a good image i think also on the coat because we are quite cool people and the wine is still something accessible in Chassagne. There is not, I think it's a good village for that.

• Speaker #0

  It's a place I love in Burgundy. I've been there twice, I think.

• Speaker #1

  Okay.

• Speaker #0

  And there is a... This small restaurant in summer, I don't know the name, but it's outside, you know, and it's...

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, La Cabane, I think.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, I think it's La Cabane. So La Cabane is actually a very well-known wine bar in Hong Kong, so don't make the mistake. But yeah, it's an amazing restaurant. I loved it there.

• Speaker #1

  Oh, it's nice. So now we have La Cabane, the other star restaurant. So the two that we had before. But we have now Papy, which is another restaurant owned by Théo Dancer, a friend of me who are also winemakers in Chassagne. And Clément Collin and his girlfriend opened a wine bar called Colette. So we have many, many, many places to go and have good wines. And that's amazing also because we are all wine lovers and that's how we're still doing a good job because we keep this curiosity.

• Speaker #0

  We have to come back to Chassagne one day.

• Speaker #1

  Be my guest.

• Speaker #0

  You're open to visit?

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, but we have a short time because I also work in the vineyard. So I try to stay open for a few people because we don't want to close doors.

• Speaker #0

  So it's like we send you an email. Yeah,

• Speaker #1

  and sometimes it's...

• Speaker #0

  And I guess it's not during the harvest. Yeah,

• Speaker #1

  more during the winter. Yeah,

• Speaker #0

  so it's... A bit less romantic, the Burgundy in winter, but it's still great to visit.

• Speaker #1

  November is fine also with the autumn. This is the...

• Speaker #0

  Perfect moment to be in Burgundy. So one of the main things in Burgundy is the climate, so the different parts of it. Can you describe what you produce, what you have in terms of wine? I know here we have Chassagne-Morachet, so I guess it's a village one. Can you describe a bit what you do and the type of wines that you will find?

• Speaker #1

  Chassagne is a very complex area because you have this mix between clay and limestone a bit everywhere. The wine typicities are coming from the proportion of limestone you have, but also the typicities of the limestone you have. So it's very different and very rich, I would say, by the terroir. In this Chassagne, you have, for example, six... plots blended together. You have triad the north and the north part is very stony, close to Pouligny. It's giving a lot of acidity. At the center of the village we have two plots, Les Mazures, Les Essars, where we have the classic mix of the small rocks mixed with the classic clay, quite draining clay of Chassagne, giving a lot of texture to the wines. But you have also some parts on the south way of Chastain close to Saint-Denis and warm water with a big dark clay and that gives a bit the roundness to the wine. So that's also what's coming from Chassagne, a lot of reds because we have a bit of clay at the bottom part so all those plots are better for reds but we have the higher part of the slope which is perfect for the Chardonnay and all those complexities with good Premier Cru also in Chassagne so we have the south ones. with Les Caillerets, Les Grandes Ruchottes, Les Romanées, who are just up to the hill.

• Speaker #0

  Which you produce as well?

• Speaker #1

  I have the Caillerets and Les Farandes in this area, and you have also another one, the north part, which is quite rich, with Les Vergers, Clos Saint-Jean, just located on the quarry of Chassagne, with very stony soils, give a lot of elegance to the wine, very good complexity, so we have the chance to have a big mix of terroir in Chassagne, and you can find what you want.

• Speaker #0

  I love the fact that we can also find reds from Chassagne, because you mentioned them. For me, it's undervalued. I shouldn't say that about Burgundy, because then you guys are going to up the price.

• Speaker #1

  You have many wines still quite accessible.

• Speaker #0

  The reds from Chassagne, I feel it's part of the reds from Burgundy that are still accessible and that are really amazing. I really love it.

• Speaker #1

  Chassagne used to be planted with 70% of Pinot. In the 70s, 80s, we have a big history with the Pinot. I think the consumption also was quite different before, so maybe it's coming from that. But we for sure have a place for the reds because you can't produce good Chardonnays on big, dark clay. It's not a good, very good Chardonnay, so we need to plant some Pinot on this way. But we have also those terroirs like Clos Saint-Jean-Yves or some... plots of morgeau premier cru like i think about the boudriottes from ramonet or the cardos from moro where les farrandes are also very very good because you have this density in the palette but you can have also some elegancy for the pinot and that's quite underrated you're right but that's because the wines of cote de nuit were the star before but now it's changed a bit because chassagne a finger for the raids are more value for money like you said and that makes people come in to to to our red red world of shasan and that's that's good good for the pino shasan yeah definitely definitely and it's always nice to try so you guys should try uh reds from uh from shasan as well um so

• Speaker #0

  uh you are spending 10 days in in asia you told me it was the the first time that you're coming here in terms of like... not for fun and not for studies so it's the the first time that you are actually here for work um can you describe first can you tell me what's your goal in being here um and then maybe if you can give me an impression that you have on the market from the people you met uh how

• Speaker #1

  is the dynamics from your perspective so the the idea when i come over here is um is to meet my partner first so to to explain them my vision because sometimes you meet the buyer of the wines or the owner of the company the partner company but they have a team sometimes of 20 30 people so it's always good for them also to to understand the wines for me to meet them to meet them and the other side is to To meet the customers, the consumer of the wine finally, so to explain to them my work, my vision. So it's quite recent that I'm in charge of the winemaking, so I think it was a good time for coming. With this vintage 23 quite open also, quite accessible, so it was a good moment. But also I was really surprised about the precision of some people in Asia. I was in Singapore first, I had a good lunch with some guys. Sometimes you know better the plot than me of the other village next to Shasens. You know, it's crazy. So I think the knowledges are here quite high for most of the people. So that's the good things I saw directly here in Asia. And we will see with South Korea after. But yeah, I think it's quite good that our wines are drinking in a good way and with people who are really interested in it.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, one of the things that strikes me the most in Hong Kong is the level of knowledge of people here. Like you can really find guys having trained and go through big education about wine and like being really, really smart about it, really thinking about it. And the other thing is the level at which people open bottles, actually. And it's something that is pretty cool because you maybe don't see that that much in some places in France. Thank you. Here we have plenty of wine bars and people actually are just here, you know, to enjoy. I wouldn't say they don't care about spending, but they are okay to spend money. And they're like, yeah, it's just a good night. Let's open a bottle. And, you know, it flows like that. And for me, it's really amazing to see this wine being actually consumed and drink.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, they look very generous. And the wine lists are crazy. When you go to a restaurant, you have wine everywhere. So, no, no, I think it's a good place also for wines. And that's why I'm really happy to be there and understand that also. And it's perfect.

• Speaker #0

  So you talked about the relationship that you have with partners here. How does that work? So if we have to describe the market to someone, so you produce wine in Burgundy, but you can't be everywhere in the world. So you have local partners in charge of selling this wine. How do you work with them? what you're looking for into such partners. Like for my question is, if I'm a winemaker in whatever region in the world, what should I look for and expect in working with such partners?

• Speaker #1

  So the really important thing is the collaboration and the partnership, I think. You need people who are trusting in your work, trusting in your wines to show them well and to be the ambassador of your wine because you can't come every year when you are doing the the wine and the vineyards and you are in the in all the parts of the job you you can just travel everywhere every year so you need to have like strong strong people who are selling well the wines so that's why corny invited me also for this trip yeah i think they are sometimes better than us to to sell the wines because they have the good words also to speak with the people and so it's

• Speaker #0

  they are very important into the market now it's not just seller of wines the our real ambassadors i think and so on your side how do you try to give them all this information so you're coming which is nice i guess you had tastings and everything but i don't know like do you do you send pictures of the of the plots every now and then do you have like uh uh i don't know like uh you know regular touch points to discuss how is it going

• Speaker #1

  I'm quit quite bad for the moment but with the next trip i will be better i think uh so for the moment it's my my own world my feelings uh what i'm trying to do what i'm which one i'm trying to to produce and why a bit of the global warming so many ideas come in so for for it's also my the beginning of my career so we'll see in 10 years i will be with my my one explanation and but for the moment i I think I'm just like quite direct.

• Speaker #0

  quite honest and just tell what i want and what's my challenge also so you you talked several times about global warming so you you told us a bit before that you changed the winemaking technique with a bit less wood uh for the the warm of integer to preserve a bit of acidity and of i guess ability to to drink um uh so i guess This adaptation to global warming is important to you and it's really something that you're working on. Can you tell us a bit more how you feel it from the vineyards that you're doing?

• Speaker #1

  That could be a bit challenging because everyone's told us that maybe in 50 years we will not have chardonnays anymore in Burgundy and we will need to plant something else. So I'm quite trusting in how you will need to use irrigation, for example. them. I trust that we have many keys and we can work a lot on some key points to fight a bit against this global warming. Of course, the wines will change a bit, but they will be maybe more accessible on the young age. It's maybe good also because you know that all the people have not the sellers to age the wine for 15 years now. So we have a more direct consumption too.

• Speaker #0

  Which is the case for, it was what, 2023?

• Speaker #1

  Yeah.

• Speaker #0

  Which is already super accessible.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, for the moment, this vintage is quite balanced and quite open. But the 2015 was a bit the same. We have this vintage slight warm, but with really open years on the young age. And after it goes a bit shut for a perfect aging. So maybe 2022 will do that. But at the moment, it's tested very well. It's true. So yeah, I'm...

• Speaker #0

  quite optimist with the with the this challenge and i think we need to focus on it and just work well and so what does that mean for you it doesn't mean like i guess changing the grape varieties is not something that is uh no no no irrigation is not the question you

• Speaker #1

  have some guys who tried that in burgundy it's good to try but for me when australia uh starting to stop irrigation to to have better quality Why doing that in Burgundy when it's also our emblem to have very concentrated wine? So we cannot do that.

• Speaker #0

  Because for people listening, if you irrigate, it means that you bring more water to the grape by itself.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, you have to take time in the vannia. So it's not natural. After that, you decide how many water the vannia will have. you can standard a bit the wines and you don't have the vintage and terroir wines but yeah we have some other point we can till a bit less during the summer for example keeping more grass have less sun reflection into the vineyards some guys try also some other density of plantation maybe giving more space to the roots to fight a bit again those warm summer I think it's just the beginning of the slight change of the way of work of Burgundy. And we will adapt ourselves for sure and keep the Chardonnay fresh and alive for many years. I'm pretty sure.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, definitely. You have plenty of things to try. You can keep also a bit more leaves, I guess.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, into the vineyard and also by the vinification. I mean, you can use bigger vessels. You can use the leaves. can make some uh Longer levage to help the wines to gain a bit of bitterness. Because the freshness is not just coming from the acidity. It's a mix of everything. So you can have the bitterness, you can have the sensation of lees with the sapidity of a wine. So we don't just have to see the maturity and acidity. It's more complex than that. And I think we have a lot of key points that we can use and keep the...

• Speaker #0

  this beautiful chardonnay of burgundy alive so so you know um you arrived at uh at the estate uh to to start your journey um and uh kind of take over and taking it to the next generation one of the questions i have is for an outsider like me sometimes burgundy seems a bit uh fixed meaning that uh you know it doesn't vary that much uh i guess uh expansions projects are not uh easy to follow through or to have this perspective. And my vision as an entrepreneur, you know, I always want to, you know, create new things, develop new things, opening, doing more, etc. How do you balance that? Are you not afraid of being bored in like 10 years, you know, having the same plots, doing the same wine? Like, do you have dreams for the next 30 years in Burgundy?

• Speaker #1

  I understand your question, but I think when you are passionate of wine, I see my father still working with us, coming to the domain every day, opening the door. being ready for the next harvest and talking about wine and i hope i would never bought about that of course burgundy is quite hard now to expand a bit our estates and the challenge is more keep the keeping the estates you know the the the price of the plots are getting quite higher now and

• Speaker #0

  that's also a big big challenge even for succession i guess it's yeah for the less crop we have and we still have some loan to to pay so we have those also other challenging points but um no no for me when you are passionate you many other guys buy buy some other estates in other parts of the world so maybe i will have the

• Speaker #1

  this idea in mind in 20 years but for the moment i'm very concentrated on my estates doing very good job to produce very nice wine and for the moment i'm so the good thing would be something in the other hemisphere so that you can have one harvest in the in every six months you know back and forth

• Speaker #0

  I would be tired with two harvests per year. Because it's always a good fun doing the harvest, but you drink too much, you know.

• Speaker #1

  Definitely. Especially at the end.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah.

• Speaker #1

  Nice. What is it that we should wish for you? So you told us, keep doing the best Chardonnay and the best Pinot Noir in the next 10 years. This is the wish that you have?

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. Honestly, yeah. quite simple but you know when i see some estates of burgundy who are making some great one every year they have a level so high that's i'm just like wow they are like star for me and it's when you open a bottle it's always make me like feel so so good and that's just i once also do with my I won in the next few years. So I hope I will succeed on it.

• Speaker #1

  We hope as well. So you told us a bit before that one of your first experiences was at Bouchard, so a big house, one of the biggest houses in Burgundy. What are the differences that you see between the way wine is done at Bouchard and the way you do wine in a smaller structure? What are the differences and what do you want to take from Bouchard and apply to? I say Bouchard, but it can be too large. Yeah,

• Speaker #0

  I understand. This is different, but Bouchard used to have, I think, two ways of winemaking. They were quite carry with the very nice appellation too. So they make very great job. It's not just standard wine. Of course, they have to be a bit more technical on the entry level ones. But that's also what we don't want to do on our small estates. been too much technical we need to work before in the vineyards to have nothing to do finally in the winemaking so that's the point uh but they work well on the i remember the merceau genevrier i tried what was amazing even if it's a big bigger estate you you can still have very nice one and that that's make you fun That showed how the terroir is important in Burgundy. It's not just a winemaking way or your size of the estate is. And the other things that helped me a lot from Bouchard, it was in 2018. So it was a big, big vintage with a lot of crop. So I remember that it was quite impressive. There were fruits everywhere, but nobody's quite stressed. So that's also helped me, you know, when you come back on a family estate. my father could could be sometimes stressed a bit some things in the way during the harvest and i think i'm more chill with that um we have many of our vineyards are based in shazam so when you have wine ready sometimes you need to pick quite quick so we have a team of 60 people during the harvest the idea is to pick two two hectares per day uh so one week and I think that's helped me also to see how you can manage many fruits in a chill time. And that's helped me a lot for the comeback on the estate, the family one.

• Speaker #1

  And did you change some process or some things?

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, but I more bring back things of processing from Tasmania. For example, we are using a room for chilling the fruits because of the global warming. sometimes you you pick during the afternoon at 30 degrees we cannot really wait for the picking so we need to pick in the afternoon we can't stop just doing the morning so that's chilling room help us a lot so we put the fruit in the fridge and we just process the the day after and like that you have always cool cold uh cold fruits to to work with uh for the the press first and also for the the first maceration and winemaking of the reds so i think it's a very important things that i bring back from tasmania because they they know how working with the the hot the harvest since long long time and we were maybe not ready in burgundy but now you have many people who have those chilling fruit rooms and so we built one also when i came back so another change

• Speaker #1

  And for the people listening, you want to have cold temperatures from the grapes when they arrive so that you can first press it and extract only the...

• Speaker #0

  So first for the sorting, it's better because it's easier to detect, to separate. And after for the press, we have long press of four hours. Imagine if we start with 30 degrees fruits, it can go very high. So it's better to have cold fruits in the beginning. And for the reds, when we are de-steaming, because the fruit is cooler, the berries are stronger and they are more intact into the tanks after the de-steaming. So I think it helps a lot for the type of fermentation we want to have. We are trying to have a quite intracellular fermentation for the reds and that's you need to have the very intact yeah perfect so that helps us a lot for for that makes sense great I think we covered a lot of of

• Speaker #1

  what you're doing it's been it's been an amazing interview thank you for being available to meet us while you were in Hong Kong it's always great for us because one of the things we we have witnessed is that uh, Being in Hong Kong is a good way for us to meet more people selling wines in the trade, sommeliers, importers, all of this. But being out of France is a bit, not a shame, but like a bit sad for us because we go a bit less into the vineyards, you know, and we meet a bit. less winemakers actually you definitely need to come back to Shazan yeah yeah absolutely and it's always the type of places we love going to so Shazan is definitely part of them and you know it's always a pleasure to go to these regions especially for us living in the city and everything when we arrive it's a blessing to drink some cool wines and being in such places I have three last questions that are always the same the first one is do you have a book recommendation for me?

• Speaker #0

  That's more a book who troubles me a bit. It's from Léon Bérillon, Le jour où il n'y aura plus de vin. Because it makes me think about all these changes. And this book said that, okay, we have to be really careful with what we are doing, what we are planting for the next generation. And I think it's helped a lot to think and to be more precise on the next plantations. uh and now you we have to to to take care about the vineyard so that's a good book i think too yeah it's an amazing book and the the way it's written it's uh it's really perfect uh and um i don't know if it's available in english or no i will check and put the link in description if it is but

• Speaker #1

  uh if it's not available yet in english and some editors are listening just uh reach out to lilian berion and lorga sparoto because the the book is really nice um do you of a recent wine tasting that you loved?

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, I had Egon Müller Schwarzo 2021. It was amazing. I had the chance to visit Egon Müller two years ago with the team of Chassens because we have a good team of the young winemakers. We are doing one region per year. And so two years ago, it was Germany. So we went there and I had two weeks ago the Schwarzo 2021. With just a slight sweetness and big, big acidity, it was amazing.

• Speaker #1

  Nice. If you find some on the markets, then you know what to drink. And finally, who is the next person we should interview?

• Speaker #0

  I worked in this wine shop in Bonn called L'Ateneum. It's an amazing place and the owner, Vincent Clément, it's maybe the ambassador of the wine style life in Bonn. So he knows everyone about all the winemakers of Burgundy. He knows all the decanters, all the glasses of wines, everything. And he has always good stories to talk about. And so you can meet him. It's really good fun. And I think he will be really happy to explain you all the Burgundy world.

• Speaker #1

  Nice. Next time we're in France and in Burgundy, we'll come to Chassagne. And before or after, we'll definitely go meet him.

• Speaker #0

  Okay, cool.

• Speaker #1

  Great. thank you very much Antoine thank you thank you for taking the time to do this interview for you guys if you're still watching it means that you love this interview watching or listening actually it means that you love this interview so don't forget to share it to at least two persons who need to drink more Chassagne red wine I think it's a good good identification share this podcast like it share it around you Antoine thanks again for coming to us and see you soon thank you