Transcription

• Speaker #0

  Welcome to Boussaiti, the first French podcast dedicated to professional hair and makeup artists. I'm Valentina, a bridal hair and makeup artist based in the French Alps. Specializing in destination weddings across Europe and beyond, every summer, as you drive to your weddings, I open this week to accompany you on the road, keeping you inspired between two venues, two trials, two early mornings. I invite aspiring wedding professionals from around the world We talk about their journey, their expertise, their mindset and what it truly takes to build a meaningful business that empowers women and elevates our industry. Let's talk the real talk. Hello Zoe.

• Speaker #1

  Hello, how are you?

• Speaker #0

  I'm fine, thank you. Thank you so much for being here. I'm so happy to have you. So Zoe... You are an Italian bridal makeup artist based in, wait, let me say that well, Erfurtshire, is that right?

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, yeah.

• Speaker #0

  In England, there are a lot of shire and everywhere. What does that mean, really, a shire? Does that mean anything? Oh, no.

• Speaker #1

  I think it's just like counties, yeah, so like kind of areas, I suppose. So yeah, shire seems to be...

• Speaker #0

  Okay, okay. Yeah, because I saw shire, yeah, you're from the UK, okay. Because at the beginning, I thought you were from the U.S. Really? When I was searching, etc., because, yeah, Zoe Kennedy, you know, I was like, Jackie Kennedy. I was like, yeah, she's from the U.S. Oh, no, she's from Head for Shire. So I'm so happy to have you today with me for this episode. We're going to talk about a lot of things. But before we start talking, before we start the podcast, could you... Tell for those who are discovering you today, who are you and how come did you become a makeup artist? And all you think that would be nice for us to know about you.

• Speaker #1

  OK, so I'm Zoe Kennedy, owner of Makeup by ZK and ZK Makeup Studio. I'm based in Hertfordshire, which is just north of London. And I've been doing it about 12 years now. I always count it from when I was. qualified but really I've been doing it much longer than that I've kind of always known this is what I wanted to do like from a very very young age um school I was really artistic and I also had really bad skin so I got into makeup a lot earlier than most of my peers and I found that it gave me a lot of confidence in my most insecure moments so that's what really brought me into makeup and then also combining that artistic flair that I had with makeup just kind of made it really make sense for me but it hasn't exactly been a straight road to success it never is with makeup as I'm sure you know it just takes a lot of different avenues and I have pivoted my career a lot of times um but now I've kind of ended up in the world of bridal and I feel like that's where I have always meant to be my makeup style has always leaned more glowy and ethereal is what I like to call it which is my definition of like a modern elegant bridal makeup that's heavy enough but not too much it's that kind of balance between natural and glam um and yeah I just feel like I finally found my place and I'm also now really learning a lot about the business side of of this career and I feel like that's been absolutely game-changing for me so

• Speaker #0

  I'm excited to share more about that as well yeah and how come did you choose to go in the brighter side of the makeup makeup artistry so I started off doing brows and makeup like for occasion makeup and I used to find I do the odd bride but it would give me it

• Speaker #1

  quite a bit of anxiety from like packing to driving to new places and things like that and obviously it's high pressure and I do think you almost feel like you need to be top of your game to be in bridal so I kind of feel like I waited until I was to pivot into bridal and it almost was something that was almost thrust upon me like I kept getting brides booking me for amazing destination weddings and I thought what am I doing not focusing on this so it was probably just after Covid that I really realised there was a lot of demand for it from me and I just need to stop trying to kind of

• Speaker #0

  hesitate to go that way and just start pushing into it and it was like 2024 I'd say when I really pushed into it um and my business has taken off since then really okay so uh at the end because usually we have a lot of makeup artists that like will love to go into the destination wedding and they're doing everything to go into the destination wedding and in your case is like the the other way like you add uh you add you add people that ask you for their destination wedding and then you're like okay maybe we should get serious on this and go the other way oh that's nice yeah which was really like amazing because i know there's a lot of people that really want to pivot and yeah and it's really hard but it's one of those ones it's like a

• Speaker #1

  snowball effect once you get one they just keep coming sort of thing so exactly exactly and where was your first destination wedding it was actually in France oh Chateau La Durante which is such a beautiful venue and we decided to drive there and make a holiday out of it but it was obviously booked for 2020 so it did get delayed two years until 2022 so that was when I first did it okay okay she booked two years in advance with you okay she booked she booked a year in advance but then obviously it got delayed because of covid ah yeah true yeah yeah true the covid the covid yeah i did probably lose money on my first destination wedding in all honesty but that was just out of my control really and i just let it slide because i was like i want to do it so well

• Speaker #0

  actually i feel like it's like when you start the makeup business like you have to lose some money at the beginning. before you understand and etc and then after you do your price accordingly to your uh to are your master your skill and according to the business you want to have and it's the same for destination wedding when you start destination wagons i see if you start all over again so like for me it's not never lose like for it's never lose because as you said you you book one then after it's a snowball you have other you know you just have to have that first one and yeah it's uh it's like

• Speaker #1

  always opportunity you know and where are they where in which country do you usually work actually in France Italy surely maybe yeah I've done Italy I've done Greece quite a bit I'm in Greece Italy and France this year so I'm doing quite a few this year a few of them are actually friends weddings that's going to be really special but um yeah I've done um so far I've done uh two France two Italy and two Greece so a few kind of a year you I don't go crazy with them.

• Speaker #0

  Okay. You are also very intentional with your visibility because when I prepare a podcast episode, I really like to go and search the information by myself instead of asking the guests. And sometimes I really struggle even to find the person's name on their page or even to find where they are based. to know that you're from Edforshire sometimes I have to go and check very far but when I go on your page like I didn't even I'm not even acting as a bride but I'm just acting like someone that want to know more about you and as I go on your page I know exactly where you're from what's your name what do you do aetherium makeup and for all you do that I I have all the information in like five seconds Like, I don't need to go and search. And you can see that you're really intentional on how you market yourself and how you manage your SEO. And do you think this is a very important point to know? I think it is. But how do you come to have a page that is so simple to scan, like in seconds, for Brad or someone else?

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, I think SEO is super, super important. I think I try and think about it in everything I do when it comes to even just posting. Every single post, I try and have some form of SEO, whether it's on the image, in the caption or in the hashtags. And then the same with my profile. I've learned a lot from a lot of online academies, some of which we met through. There's loads of other ones as well. But that's one I feel like because like the Level Up Club has given me so much in terms of. business knowledge on seo and stuff and now it's just ingrained in my brain that like even when i'm teaching makeup artists that's the first thing i do before the lesson is i go through their socials just like you have and i then make notes on things they should tweak to make it more easy to understand who they are what they do where they are because i do think even myself as a bride i found it when you're looking for vendors so many of them are really vague they don't have websites they don't have prices but it's transparent i think that's actually really important in this day and age in my personal opinion. think just the easier we can make it provides the better especially now that the brides are getting younger and younger or not younger but younger than me we're young so like the gen z they don't they don't have the attention span like even i'm a millennial and i don't have the attention span to be hunting for information i want it to be as easy as possible for brides to find out who i am to even book like i think my partner's launching his wedding business at the moment and i'm trying to encourage him to get a crm system because i do think it's worthwhile but i understand that when you're first starting you don't have the clients it's a bit scary to be spending a lot of money on those systems but it makes it so much easier for the brides to book, to sign contracts and everything, to be in one place.

• Speaker #0

  Well, I'll say you gave good advice to your partner because that was the first thing I did when I started my business, having a CRM system. I knew at the beginning, it's four years that I am in the business, but the first investment I made in my business was a CRM system because the earlier you start, the simpler it is because the more you go without it, the more you struggle. to have one later because you're like oh my god i have to enter all my clients inside the database but if you start with zero client then each client you have will already be inside your database already be inside your serum system so that's the best investment yeah at the beginning you don't have maybe you don't have a lot of money to invest but serious system will be always worth it and will be like the investment the arrow is very fast like you don't really see it but it's very fast The arrow I, sorry, is very fast. Arrow E, a mix of French and English. And I wanted to go on what you said because as a future bride, because you're a future bride, you're planning your destination here in France. I'm also a future bride, and that's why I wanted to have you here on the podcast because we talk about the fact that we struggle with vendors. Like, I feel like now that I'm a bride, that, like, there are some things that I see that I didn't really pay attention before as a vendor, as myself, when I communicate with other vendors. But now that I'm in like the two sides of the business, like I'm a client and I'm also a vendor, there are a lot of things that I see that are very, very, very, you have to improve your nerves, you know, as a brand, as a future brand. the the response like having response to your message and all the stuff and as we said before finding information on vendors the transparency there's no transparency with cost and especially in france i don't know the uk is less but in france there's a lot of taboo around pricing and anytime i go and ask for like a quote there's always like well it depends if it's raining and if it's this and if it's that etc etc we should call it depends if this the the flower comes out in august or like i just want a prize like give me like a starting price like just just that's all i'm asking for and do you feel like being a bride i've changed your your way to function on your own business or

• Speaker #1

  or no yeah i'd say it's definitely helped me streamline everything again make it as easy as possible because i know how hard it can be um But yeah, that's one thing I will say is I, a lot of the vendors I booked for my wedding in France are not from France, but that's partly because I know them, I trust them. And if I'm honest, price wise, it wasn't massively different to fly people out as it was to have people in France. So I kind of thought it's just easier, but mainly because I just feel like the ones in the UK just seem to have better systems. Like all of the vendors I have booked in France don't have, I can tell they don't have systems that are welcome. thank you for booking from any of them really. Whereas I've got a full information booklet from my videographer. I've got contracts that I haven't had to ask for. And I think no shade to anyone in France. I think everyone's running their business differently. And I think from my observation, I would say a lot of French vendors are still very much operating their businesses through and relying on wedding planners to get their bookings. They don't really tend to do much socials. They don't really have as many systems. um I feel like the yeah the UK vendors they're doing a lot more hard work there and rather than I think it feels like the legwork is on the on the planners in France and my planner basically fired me because I was far too type a she said I don't you don't need me but then I'm like well I do because I don't have any connections your wedding planner fired you yeah well it's basically the venue has someone who can do the planning yeah linked with them and I was I had a call with her to discuss what to do and she was like Zoe you booked everything except for like two vendors so I don't think you need my help I was like okay fine so she basically just gave me some recommendations and I booked the last two so it was just it was florals and catering that I was struggling with and she just helped me find them but other than that I did it all myself but as I said it was a lot of connections that I know through the industry but yeah I think yeah florist i had a real issue getting responses from this one i still haven't had a response from in over four weeks and i understand i've been quite sort of near to valentine's day so maybe that's why i'm trying to give some like leeway with that but i'm also like it's now in my opinion it's unacceptable to leave it that long to not give me any sort of figures because i haven't even got a clue if you're in budget so i booked somewhere else now i'm not I don't want to book a vendor that I feel like doesn't care about my business.

• Speaker #0

  Exactly. Four weeks, like, life happens. But, like, four weeks without a response. Like, even, like, sometimes because, like, I don't feel, it's the same thing. Like, I don't feel, like, important to that person. Like, just, like, I have kids. I have a child already. Like, you, Brights, we prepare our wedding. out of our office time like we are in the wedding industry is not because that we are makeup patches that we work only on Fridays or Saturdays or weekends etc we also work in the week because I do a lot of admin during the week I do a lot of a lot of social media etc editing for social media Instagram etc so I have office hours and my wedding doesn't go inside my office hours so I organize my wedding the night or weekends when I have time when I'm not on weddings and like sometimes you are you're like I feel like sometimes you're like yeah let's go let's go wedding planning this weekend you know like you're you have the excitement and the time to do it then after you have no response like okay they will respond tomorrow next tomorrow then after one week two weeks three weeks four weeks one month then after and no no follow-up nothing and And you are really right when you say that French vendors do not have CRM system or they don't have any system at all. Like they don't, they just receive an inquiry and they just say, yeah, I'm available. That's all. Then after you have to, you have to ask questions to know, okay, you're available. What are you, what's your pricing? And then after you always have to, like, you have to fetch the information. They don't give you the information. And that's funny because you... booked most of your vendors from the uk to come to france and french people are like i i do a lot of destination wedding for um for bride that they are not french and one day i was at a wedding and the bride was the same she brought all our vendors from from from from other countries and when i went there it was like a lost place and there was a hair salon you close to the chateau very like five minutes to the chateau and i was like this chateau is like this salon is like one of those places that will be complaining that i have clients but there's someone just getting married like next door to your salon and she could book you if you have um a presence on instagram social media a website uh if you have all the information because most of the bride that i have in destination wedding in france you I always have a, why me? Like, why me? Like, I'm very far. Like, sometimes I'm eight hours from the venue. Why me? And they always respond, you are the only one I found. Because the SEO was good. And a lot of makeup artists, maybe not only in France, but also, I think, UK or even the US or all over the world. We missed the SEO part that is very important because you have... you can we cannot only rely on instagram you also have your website there are some people that don't have websites you can also have pinterest that was what as we were talking out uh out of the mac you have a lot of things that you can use to reinforce your presence online to get bookings easier and

• Speaker #1

  then after you have the system to maintain the bookings you know i've even had about four brides from my wedding venue and my wedding venue only takes 10 weddings a year Yeah. four brides from my wedding venue inquire with me not knowing that I'm getting married there wow I haven't been able to do any of them and I'm actually quite glad because I don't really want to work there before I get married there in all honesty in the future would love to go back I don't want to work there first so I haven't been able to do them but they've all said to me collectively they're struggling to find anyone in the local area doing hair and makeup um and have I got any recommendations and I can't I don't know anyone I can't help but um I mean I think yeah and that's like the Toulouse sort of area okay Thank you. think again it's probably the lack of SEO the lack of posting lack of being present and like even a hairstylist that I worked with on a wedding the first one I did in France she's really amazing but I just feel like she's she's not like on her social media enough showing her bridal work but I tried to recommend her to people and they were just like I don't want to book her and it's like but she's actually really good but the work's not shown like that and I'm like I'm vouching for her because I've seen it in person but like that's not enough

• Speaker #0

  yeah yeah yeah because it's not enough to just be good being good is like the basic to be a makeup artist being good at your job is like the minimum required to do your job but at these days i should say if with gen z coming like being good is not enough like you can have someone that's like that do less better work than you but if she's good on seo she will have the bug she will have the job she will book the job and as you say like you have a you recommend that person that's very good but

• Speaker #1

  people don't want to go because like they're afraid maybe like they can't trust yeah they can't trust yeah like people need to see the work that they want to book so you need to be posting the styles that you want to be booked for they need to see that you've got some good reviews they need to see that you have got good systems and you are reliable and you are like responsive and that's that will get you so many more bookings than you quite realize and I think even it is definitely a struggle slightly in the UK too there's a lot of makeup artists that don't want to put their location as well because they want to do it the whole of the UK and it's like but that's that's not helpful to anyone because I go across the whole of the UK but I still don't want to necessarily pay 200 pounds in travel because I'm halfway across the country and frankly I'd rather just stay locally if I can but if someone wants to pay me the extra I'll go so I'd rather have my location there because I want to get booked for

• Speaker #0

  Hertfordshire over anywhere because it's easier for me yeah exactly because like at the end you're just making them wasting their time and you're also wasting their time because if they contact you and they realize you're the opposite side and they don't have the budget they didn't plan to take someone so far there's that's useless so just put your location put your name please uh for me the name is very important like I like talking to someone with their name like hey Zoe dear Zoe hey Maya or anything put your name please like um like glam glam like like sometimes you have surname like like glam studio glam etc that's that so 2010 like that's that's finished like stop stop that put your name your surname uh and just put your location so we can know who you are and already that makes me identify more to someone like i'm i because like even the fact that some vendors usually we are when you're only alone like you're just you why talk about we I prefer to end it because I'm a Gen Z you know with one year uh like I'm the eldest Gen Z you know like in one feet millennial and that's a good place to be because you can understand both a little bit more yeah yeah because I always thought I was millennial because I'm 1997 you know I always thought I millennial because but lately I found out that I was Gen Z but Now I understand why, because I, because especially as a future bride, I really feel more Gen Z than millennial because, like, I do everything last minute. I booked, like, I booked my dick, my, my, my dick, my wedding designer, like, two weeks ago. Like, I'm getting married in August, you know.

• Speaker #1

  I've got everyone and I'm not getting married until next June.

• Speaker #0

  No, wait, no the problem is that at the beginning i was so excited because we got engaged in 2023 i was so excited and then after in 2023 i booked the chateau i booked the photographer the videographer then after i started struggling with other vendors like the florist um and all the all the vendors like they never follow up uh when you need an information like you receive your quote like one month later like one month later my i'm doing something else like let me alone you know then after you're like okay i'll just see that later and answer later then after you forget then after then after i'm like oh yeah no let's see that later then after later is year of the wedding voila it

• Speaker #1

  does come around on you quickly like i think the only thing i think i've got left to book is my rentals but i think found my company I just need to actually get a quote but again their website's so difficult to navigate I'm like putting it off because I can't do it there's something interesting that you said because you're getting married close to Toulouse yeah because I had the call with a bride yesterday that is getting married in that part of France also and

• Speaker #0

  I feel that I don't know but I really feel that that part of France is going to be the place to be soon um because like south of France the southeast of France is getting saturated like everybody knows that of France Provence etc everybody except Provence Provence or even Paris or Bordeaux also Paris Bordeaux Provence are the three places uh it's like it's almost like Lake Como you know like Lake Como um many people get get um do their wedding there but Toulouse I've been getting some booking in Lately And I feel like Toulouse is becoming the place to be in France. I don't know what you think about that, but I really have that feeling at the moment. So that could be interesting maybe too, because I feel like... villa balbiano all the scene like you see them you see them you see and see and see and now people especially gen z want something that nobody have seen before and we're going to discover more nice places that are very hidden

• Speaker #1

  in france or in italy or other places i don't know what you think about this no i agree i think brides are getting more savvy as well because at the end of the day a lot of people who do destination weddings I think there is like a misconception that sometimes people who do destination weddings have unlimited budget and that's just not the case sometimes sometimes it's actually like in my case I wouldn't say I have a huge budget but I would say in the UK it's probably larger than the average but that's because I care so much about my wedding I want to invest in it but at the same time um I feel I can get more value for money by doing it abroad because a venue here in the UK would cost me the same price as I'm paying for three days and accommodation for one day here and it wouldn't even be the sort of venue I'd want either if I'm completely honest so that's partly why I did choose to do it abroad and also from working destination weddings I know how magical they feel and that's why I wanted to do it but I think brides are often on a bit more of a budget than we might think and again that's the conversation I do often have with these brides they're often coming from Australia the ones that are getting married into the loo there's a lot of Australians Canadians and a lot of the problem with that is that the exchange rate makes it almost feel more expensive for them. they're a lot more tight budget than like the british are and the americans are usually a bit better with budget um but i do think that they're they're looking for venues that are going to not take up so much of their budget so they have a bit more budget to spend on vendors and that was again another reason i chose that area was one i fell in love with the venue and it was a new venue so it made it like something i'd never seen before um and it was a better price point because it's newer I know they're going to be charging a lot more in the future because they're absolutely beautiful but um and again it's that less popular area so it's a lot a little bit more reasonable and on top of that I feel like it's more reasonable for guests to stay there's a lot less demand for the accommodation and the pricing is quite I'd say very good and competitive and it's just it feels like a very untouched part of France it's not overly touristy whereas I think the Dordogne is becoming

• Speaker #0

  so known for wedding yeah yeah the amount of inquiries I have for the Dornier and Bordeaux at that part like is is crazy because and it's too far and there are a lot of vendors because the the wedding industry in that part is very developed because they have a lot of demand so they really know that there is a lot of destination wedding so I really I really book a wedding at that part because there are already a lot of vendors there um but yeah the Um... that's why I feel the Toulouse part is very untouched like yeah no more stories for the moment and I think we are good for about maybe five years I think for that place and before it's like don't make it trendy not yet wait I feel because it's like the same for like Les Combes that now people are going more into Tuscany you know more into the yeah the Puglia to the unknown side of the Italian space. they're going more more more bright search more like they're search more the the the the private part the the the the um how can you say it privatize it yeah so you know so working across um the uk and europe do you feel a difference in bridal

• Speaker #1

  uh size or expectation or not really yeah definitely i think again that's a lot a lot of the reason i think i do get booked for destination weddings is the styles of makeup range so vastly between countries uh the thing i'd say i'd i see a slight difference in france is that most of the makeup artists are a lot more on the natural side but um brides are often wanting that kind a little bit more like the soft glam natural maybe um and that Aussie girl again that's a lot of the reason I've had inquiries is the Australians want that Aussie girl makeup and I feel like the French makeup artists don't quite understand what that means yet whereas the British the style's not that far off Aussie makeup and especially the sort of ethereal makeup that I do um and then I often found with Grease they had a lot of issue trying to find artists that were not too full-on because they love a lot of heavy eye makeup there and a lot of heavy foundation um bold colors so I think they struggle a lot with that um and even just pricing, I think.

• Speaker #0

  I'm not exactly the cheapest makeup artist in my area, but for destination, I don't charge crazy money because I don't think I'd get booked if I did. But there are some destinations that are like Lake Como, for example, and vendors are charging an absolute fortune because frankly, the demands there and the clientele have the money. So they're charging those crazy prices. And there are some brides who just don't want to pay it. And that's when they do tend to look at flying someone out potentially.

• Speaker #1

  Oh, yeah. Yeah. I feel there's a really thing with the Aussie makeup. Like, I feel like there's something I don't understand in the Aussie because I, you know, Kelsey Bain, of course. Because I think that's where I discovered you at the first point. I discovered you with Kelsey Bain and after in the Level Up Club. But, like, I watched Kelsey Bain doing makeup for, like, one year now very, very, very, very attentively. And, like... I feel I understand the Aussie makeup, but I feel there's something I don't understand. Like there's very... Well,

• Speaker #0

  I still feel like there's something they do and I can't understand what it is. Yeah. I don't know what it is.

• Speaker #1

  Or maybe it's just because we are not Aussie that maybe that put the Aussie spice on it, you know? Because I have a masterclass. I'm also going to a masterclass in June. So maybe we'll... Are you going to a masterclass or no?

• Speaker #0

  I'm assisting her. oh you're the one assisting her okay i have also i have also asked to do her makeup and she said yes so we'll see i think that goes ahead because that would be yeah amazing and also terrifying yeah yeah well but i'll be at the masterclass so we're going to meet at our masterclass that's good

• Speaker #1

  good good good okay so yeah uh i'm going to assist them the masterclass but yeah i really feel that like maybe i'm really at something missing in the oc makeup but you maybe I'll discover it during the answer yeah but like what is it that makes it Aussie yeah yeah exactly what what what okay very nice thank you well as I said I have some um signature question that I like to ask some uh I ask to all my guests on the on the podcast um because uh this podcast is uh like business-based for our makeup artists I like to talk about each one's story, how you come to do what you're doing today, etc. And it's also fun to see what you as a future bride, your vision as a future bride, but also as a makeup artist and a vendor in the wedding industry. But there's something that we all come to, it comes to happen during their career. We all have some struggles like failures, struggles, etc. So what do you think is your biggest struggle as an entrepreneur, as a makeup artist, or even as a bride, as you prefer? But your biggest struggle that really, really makes you change your way to work and really made you become someone else in your business?

• Speaker #0

  I think imposter syndrome is something I struggle with still and I'm trying to work through but I've been trying to pivot my career slightly towards a little bit more educational stuff but I always find myself just coming back to doing the brides and stuff and I still want to do that but I think it's the imposter syndrome that I struggle with trying to like showcase myself as an educator believe in myself as an educator yeah I think yeah I'm trying to overcome that by just pushing through it because I know I've educated artists and I've seen amazing results but I launched an online platform selling my online masterclass and I don't think I've had a single sale so that's been kind of one of my biggest flops I suppose so far but I'm determined to keep pushing through and keep promoting it and again just trying to push through that imposter syndrome of like it's failed because it hasn't it's still new and there's still a chance to market it and I need to take my own advice on that and just keep yeah you've got just like people have got to see something seven times before they buy so I need to keep shouting about it

• Speaker #1

  yeah people have to see Sarah Sarah Sarah like not usually say seven seven or sixteen times I would even say 50 times you know

• Speaker #0

  I think you forget as well that I might have posted it maybe twice and I'm like embarrassed that it hasn't sold but it's like that's enough because like I spoke to someone about it at Masterclass I was at recently and she was like I would buy that. I didn't even know you had it. And I'm like, it's because I haven't spoken about it enough. Because again, I can't expect everyone to see every single postal story that I do.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, no, you have to talk about like, I feel you when you say that. But you have to like, well, not just wake up in the morning and say, hey, I'm selling this class. Like, no, like, it has to be very natural. You have to do it in a very natural way. Like, maybe just tell about a story. You don't know, I can say. I usually define myself as a storytelling makeup artist. Like I'm a storyteller. You know, like when you put people inside with you, they feel invested and they get interested in what you do. Like imposter syndrome is like, you don't have to have imposter syndrome. Like, boy, what are you saying? Like, look at your page. Like what imposter syndrome? Like you do a great job. You present well. you you you're you're you're charismatic um and all this stuff like imposter syndrome is like i something i say myself like the more you have imposter syndrome and the more you need that and the more you need to feel like an imposter because uh you are not an imposter it's just your your brain that's telling you that but that's not true the more you have that alert that means that you are in the good place. So maybe just... change it and switch it and feel like oh imposter okay let's go then let me be an imposter you know and then after you don't you don't really think about it anymore because you are not an imposter you're just uh someone doing a good work and want to give that to people that and something i always say is that that will really be egoist like selfish uh to not share that to people you know since you have a lot to share with people that would be very selfish to not do it so you maybe if that can help like you know

• Speaker #0

  I think I'm gonna launch it on my website as well to see if that helps because I want to add like a whole business element to it because I think where it is just the skills focused stuff I feel like we're almost a little bit fatigued with that as makeup artists we're all just wanting to learn the business side because there's only so many tutorials we can watch yeah and I actually think that's half the reason a lot of people attend these masterclasses is for the business side I feel like I took so much away from Kelsey's last costs. mainly like social media stuff more than the actual makeup skills themselves because it wasn't that dissimilar to what I do so yeah I think that's something that maybe could be more valuable and that's why I think these sort of podcasts are so helpful because yeah so much from them yeah you also did a master class uh at at the moment I saw you in person master class you did also yes yeah so I did one in November and then I've got another one coming up the end of this month with my friend Laura which is brilliant exciting and we are planning to do another one because it did sell out quite quickly so oh nice this imposter syndrome needs to go but then

• Speaker #1

  I even get in my head and go oh is it because she's doing it but they're buying tickets and maybe they don't want to see me and it's like oh my god oh my gosh oh my god no no no you did what you did on November you were alone so that it's useful ticket so like at the moment like even if you have only one person buying like that's enough like you have people that buy and I should say that your colleague that say that, oh, I will buy that, but they just need... The imposter syndrome is a sort of sabotage. I know that because we all have imposter syndrome. Sometimes it's more difficult to, like, I'm talking, I'm yapping at CIF, I don't do sabotage sometimes. Like, I'm yapping, Sometimes I sabotage myself because of imposter syndrome. But, like, yeah, no, there's no reason to do that because... you i i really feel you have a lot to to bring to to people so like it's not because she's doing that with you that it's booked it's just because you're two or two of you together and you have a lot to bring and she'll have a lot to bring so that that's all yeah imposter should can

• Speaker #0

  i ask you a question as well with the you struggled with of your wedding would you ever give them like advice or would that be I'm like I part of me wants to say to them like I think you need to get a CRM system oh my god do you know what I did for my wedding like I was so sick and tired to go back and forth with my vendors because like my

• Speaker #1

  photographer and videographer they are initially they were a couple but they broke up like they broke up like booked them in 2023 and they broke up in 2024. And at some point, I told them from the beginning that I'm a wedding vendor, so I have like a bizarre schedule, you know. And my husband, my fiancé, he's a military, so he's not often at home. So that's why we booked very early for the vendors we really wanted. And we told them that we booked so early because we know that we are going to struggle to find a time to see all together. and it's important to see together with the photographer and videographer. And when they broke up, I sent them a message to say, oh, like the wedding is coming. Like we said we're going to see each other this year, so could we please book something? And no response. I follow up like three times before I have a response, like almost four months later. And I was like, you know what? I created a Calendly link. for my vendors to book on my calendar link. Like, I usually send a link to my brides when they contact me for an inquiry, say, oh, congratulations on your wedding. Thank you for contacting me, et cetera, blah, Here is my rate. Here is the link to book a discovery call so we can chat together. It would be more nice, et cetera. I never add this from any vendor. And I was like, okay, wait. Like I created a signature. on my emails on our email because we have an email for the wedding i could get a signature and i mean i put my number and my fiance's number i put my son name and i was like wedding vendors please book on this link like i'm not supposed to do that that's not my job that should be their job but yeah that's not my job like even the the the the wedding designer i booked like two three weeks ago, I knew that the problem was going to... come at some point so i just thought oh fine we i i just said when when i when i when we booked like i did as i do to my brother like oh oh i just sent the the the how do you say the deposit i programmed your next payment at at this date on 7th of july and 7th of uh 7th of may and 7th of july uh so here is the link to book an appointment so we can discuss But I'm the bride.

• Speaker #0

  that's crazy honestly right I think I actually would say the vendors I did book from France I went based off of obviously won their work but actually the responsiveness so I think I'm hoping I might be okay because yeah the chef the chef slash catering I booked they were just so responsive that was half the reason I booked and their menu was the best they were very much out of my budget but I pushed my budget so I was like I want someone I can get in touch with I want someone who's you I like and then the florist again was quite responsive compared to the rest Yeah. really attentive sent me like a whole pdf of like from my pinterest board kind of almost of her ideas from that and i was like that is amazing like wow saying that level of service can be so game-changing france is very very very very um very

• Speaker #1

  late uh regarding service providing service any service not only in the wedding industry like just like i have two phones normally this is my personal phone and I have my job phone. like it's been one month i'm going back and forth for my phone like i brought i took my phone to the place um they say come back in two days i didn't have time to go back in two days i sent my my fiancee one week later and they didn't even do the job like he had to wait for them to put the the new screen on the phone and he brought the phone with the elastic on the phone it was like why there is elastic on my phone like it that did in front of me oh okay Then the phone, when I hung the phone, they didn't even check if the phone was working. So they just put the screen and gave him the phone with the elastic. I checked the phone and the phone was like, it was even worse than when I sent, when I left the phone for them. Then after I sent an email, because I know like, in French you say, Les paroles s'envolent. That means when you write, it stays. But when you talk, it goes. So I sent an email. Nobody respond. That's not a surprise. Then I call to tell them that there is there is the problem. He said, oh, I'm going to I'm going to I'm going to command the piece that is needed. OK, I would say come next week. I wanted to go next week. They were closed for vacation. OK, then then after I go the week after. So two weeks later, he said, I'm going to command the piece. I reached there. I say, oh, I'm going to come on the piece. I was like,

• Speaker #0

  what the honestly one of the florists i got in touch with she literally dm'd me because i had cm her chase a week later and she said oh sorry you were in my junk i'll quote you next week and i'm like it's literally monday so you're gonna wait for a whole nother week to quote me but i was like okay i'll give you the benefit of the doubt then the next week she sends me another message i'm gonna quote you next week and i'm like i actually can't be arsed this is ridiculous yeah like why why are we just procrastinating guys like what's going on yeah a quote like that takes like five minutes like you do it on canva or what you want or you you do it on your crm system if you do it or if you have one like i mean i think florist quotes can be harder but i think they also surely have set prices that they can kind of go off of at least or give me a a minimum because one florist came up to me and said my minimum six grand and i was like lovely i'm going to say no because that's very much out of my budget. And yeah. at least she didn't waste my time she just got straight back and said this is my minimum if you want to work with it let's go if not don't bother and I was like cool that's all that's all we ask for for a minimum price and not just like yeah it's difficult I'm happy to work within minimums and this is what I always ask my friends who are planning their weddings yeah like oh they quoted me this this much for floors and stuff and I'm like do you care about flowers they're like no I'm like okay just ask their minimum then and then work out what you can get for that because that's how that's how you budget like you just Thanks for watching.

• Speaker #1

  because then I have to pay more yeah yeah exactly exactly exactly very long so to answer your question no you do what you feel is good to do I just don't want to upset anyone but I'm also like I feel like you need to know that this is not good it's not good but well they're supposed to do the job but if we have to do the job it's like we're getting married only once I I hope so So like, I don't, I'm not waiting for them to wake up for my wedding because my wedding is like in some months. It's like close, very, very close. I'm not going to wait for them to wake up and find out that serum system exists, etc. I already know, I already have a system. So I'm going to have a system as a bride also. So follow it or not, but you're not going to mess up my wedding.

• Speaker #0

  I'm hoping that they come back to me eventually so I can say, I didn't book with you because you're... responses were far too slow would then i can say like would recommend looking into a crm system or an admin assistant if you don't have time to respond to inquiries because yeah like you did lose his booking mainly for that reason but i mean i don't think they're ever coming back to me i think if anything i think this might be the first bride that's ever been ghosted yeah

• Speaker #1

  way around yeah yeah maybe maybe i think it's something you should do like maybe maybe at least the florist you know like I have never think about it, but yeah, maybe it's something to do like maybe they're going to take it very personally because they may yeah, I mean but that I prefer to just tell them and So that they know and maybe at the beginning they will take it personally and then after they will be like Yeah, they will thank you. It's because it's very important because it's very dommage is um, it's it's sad to lose opportunities just for that you know like it's something that could be very easily easily um easily repaired you know uh so yeah maybe yeah you should you should you should i think i'm going to i've never think about it but i think i will like at the end of the wedding because especially to the photographer and the videographer i have because for my wedding i want Thank you. keep a good relationship because i want me i need nice picture especially at the price i'm paying them you know yeah after the wedding i was surely tempted that that i was really i'm not going to give a review because if i give a review it's going to be a bad review but i'm just going to tell them that i really i was happy to book them at the beginning but i was really disappointed after of how things go. Because I can understand you break up, but... there are way to do it a professional way you know like like the photographer calling me to ask if i can send out the payment instead of sending to the videographer because he doesn't want to pay to pay every that's not my problem like i signed a contract with a company and i'm paid that company then the payment you see that in between two of you that's not my problem if you want to change it you send me a new contract that i'm happy to sign on until i don't pay more because you change your policy or anything but i'm happy to do two separate payment but send me a contract to be like legally binding 100 yeah yeah yeah because after i'm the one that will be um that that will be in uh i won't be in my right to like stop paying one and start pay the other because i stand with a company so do that in between you and that's a very big point like i feel i'm i'm I'm the wedding planner of I'm of all the vendors like that's not my job like I'm organizing my wine that's wow voila it's a big very very very big topic like very sensitive topic

• Speaker #0

  I think it's important to talk about being a bride as well because I think it can be so valuable to vendors I think again with Kaylee's podcast she's occasionally spoken about her experience and how she found her vendors and how important visuals were for her and I think as much as I agree with her I do agree I think petrol is the number one. but then the the like services is number two for me and then i mean showing personality is also great but it's not it's not an absolute necessity i don't think but it depends on the supplier like i think if i didn't know my photographer i would probably need to know i like their personality because that's really important yeah

• Speaker #1

  that's also important too yeah yeah yeah personality and good good system yeah it's important good personality but also a system please And what is your biggest, I would say your biggest, your biggest moment you ever lived in your career? Like the best moment you ever had, like maybe in a wedding or not a wedding, the best moment you have in your career?

• Speaker #0

  I think it might actually be one of my destination weddings. My bride and I got quite close before the wedding because I also used to do brows. And at the time, I was also doing her brows in the lead to the wedding. So we became quite close and we have a lot of mutual friends. So I knew quite a few people going to the wedding. And nearer to the wedding, she actually invited me because she knew I was making a trip of it anyway. And she just said, I'd love to have you there if you'd like to come bring your mum along. So I was going with my mum anyway. We had the most amazing day. I honestly had so much fun I remember getting back to the hotel room I was I got back a little later than my mum because she didn't quite make out as late as me but I came back and I just was sobbing and she was like oh my god what's wrong like are you okay she just thought I was really drunk and I probably was but I was like again I think it was like a little bit of imposter syndrome but also just happy like happy it was like I can't believe that this is my life and that brides have been this kind and oh my god well let alone provide this amazing experience for me because it's like an absolutely amazing wedding and so I think that was definitely a highlight of my career I absolutely like just felt like so lucky to be in that position and also the position to be able to help kind of give my mum and I some really amazing experiences together because I do often take her with me for my destination weddings oh bring mum at work

• Speaker #1

  Yeah. Oh.

• Speaker #0

  oh so that's so nice oh so you have a really good relationship with your with your mom so yeah I mean I should have really invited her to some of my destination weddings this year to be fair but I'm trying to kind of stop making a trip out of them and actually just working from home because otherwise I don't make any money oh

• Speaker #1

  that's so cute maybe once once a year like let's once a year that's fun like so that that keeps your mom and daughter moments that very nice oh you Yeah,

• Speaker #0

  and my auntie lives in Florence. So if I ever get a Tuscan wedding, I always try and bring my mum so she can go and see her sister.

• Speaker #1

  Okay, nice, nice. Oh, so you have a place to be in that part? So that can happen. Yeah,

• Speaker #0

  so I'd love to do more Tuscan weddings, to be honest, because I have got family there and it's a nice chance to visit them. But also I have somewhere I can stay. But yeah, I think it's a bit like, I guess, the Bordeaux region for you. It's very... oversaturated with vendors and there's some really really great vendors so I don't get as many opportunities there I suppose yeah yeah and I do my destination brides often so last minute I can't cater for them because I'm quite booked up here so

• Speaker #1

  I probably could do a lot more if I was more available yeah I understand I understand yeah and do you speak Italian no I would love to but I'm terrible not very bilingual

• Speaker #0

  I did try and learn French using a podcast you But all I've learned is je visitais le parc. That is it. Je visitais le parc.

• Speaker #1

  Je visitais le parc. What the hell is that?

• Speaker #0

  How does it taught me that? There's so many other things it could have taught me. Like, I don't know, how much is a fork to hire?

• Speaker #1

  What do you say? Dis en français?

• Speaker #0

  I don't know anything else. I think, like, no, I can't even think of anything. I studied French at school, but very briefly. And then I actually chose French.

• Speaker #1

  Spanish my GCSEs and I really regret that now because I think French would be more helpful yeah definitely like the language to know is English well you already know English that's good uh French and what else yeah English and French is I think it's the second most spoken language

• Speaker #0

  I think I heard or it might even be the first I think that's like

• Speaker #1

  Mexico and Brazil and things like that yeah I feel that like when you go to Canada people speak French everywhere and all that. There's a lot of friends, like, Anytime I go on vacation, I always hear French people at my back. Like, oh, they're here too. Like, it's almost like Chinese people, you know. You go on vacation, you see Chinese and French. Okay. What do you think is the most false idea people have about the makeup industry?

• Speaker #0

  I would say, like, we are still so undervalued, in my opinion.

• Speaker #1

  Oh.

• Speaker #0

  like people just don't see it as there are certain people that do obviously see it as valuable but I think we really need to work on kind of our perception of our job and its value and especially its value in the wedding industry like again since planning my wedding I've realized that I am still cheaper than every single vendor I've had a quote from which is because I think I'm still very important and I also am not someone who's just started like I have been doing this for 12 years I am probably the most expensive makeup artist in my area but I'm still cheaper than every single vendor I've inquired with for my wedding in France it's not even in a super like popular area so I'm like there's there's got to be something here like that we need to to be able to change that perception of value because also my expenses is is through the roof like I am now full-time doing makeup I don't do beauty anymore but my expenses every year are absolutely crazy high and I do need to charge the prices I'm charging to be able to do it full-time otherwise I wouldn't be able to make a living like I got stung with a really hefty tax bill when my career took off and I felt like I've just worked all of that for nothing. And it's like, we need to charge these prices because you don't realize that the money we're earning is not what we're taking home like I think that's the issue is a lot of brides when they're inquiring they're getting these quotes back they're thinking well they're making this much every day and it's like it's not it can't possibly be every day it's going to be a certain amount of number per wedding per year and like for me I don't want to have to do 80 90 weddings a year to make a decent living wage I want to be able to do like 60 and I'm still not there yet and I want to be

• Speaker #1

  And 60, I feel 60 is a lot because I feel in the UK, like, normals do, like, 60, 100. Like, sometimes when I listen to the By Kelly podcast, I'm like, people who do, like, 200 wedding in a year. Like, are you crazy?

• Speaker #0

  I don't know how.

• Speaker #1

  Are you crazy? Like, ow,

• Speaker #0

  I think I did, like, 92 last year and that was enough. Like, I could not do that again and I don't want to. and I want to give my brides a great service and I feel like you can't. always do that even with a crm system having that many so this year i decided to limit it to 80 but again i'd like to limit it to less eventually it's just getting the pricing to the point where i can afford to otherwise i'm not making enough money and i'd need to take up another job i don't want to do that yeah yeah do you mind if we talk about pricing if i

• Speaker #1

  would talk really really price like how much do you charge actually for um for a brand like imagine that i call you for air and makeup plus the trial How much do you charge? Will you charge?

• Speaker #0

  So I don't do hair. Sorry for just makeup. Sorry. For a bride in the UK, I charge 500 pounds for just the bride. If it's like a bride only booking and that doesn't include a trial, the trial is an additional 225. That's, that's something that I only offer Tuesday, Monday to Thursdays. And then weekends I do require a minimum of bride and three, and that is 750. plus the trial, which is 225. So it's about 975, including the trial for my like weekend minimum, plus travel, but I think about 20 miles is included in that. So it's just about 50p per mile on top of that. So the travel is never that extensive. But as I said, I think in my area, probably I'm one of the more expensive, but I have to be as it's my full time job. And my expenditure is high, my kit's luxury, my skills are pretty you decent I've been doing it for a long time and I do spend a lot of money on education as well and yeah I think when we add up all the hours we actually put into every wedding it can be well over eight hours on on just one wedding because we're talking the emails back and forth sending quotes doing discovery calls no one's paying us for those discovery calls they're they take 45 minutes sometimes I don't know how to get people off them I don't know. Then you've got the trial. I spend two hours on a trial. Then you've got on the day I spend about an hour per person, an extra hour of touch ups at the end. And some brides even book me for additional touch ups. Then I've got the driving. So I think that's something people need to remember is when they're pricing. It's not just makeup. It's not just a bride. It's not just a bit of blush and mascara. It's the whole process. And there's so many more hours that are not being paid for if you're not charging enough. mm-hmm that's that's really pro that's the real problem because um like even even the perception of clients because most clients who just call like oh i just want some uh natural makeup nothing over the top um or i just want some curls etc because that's the perception that people give because they just think it's just uh it's just about curls or it's about putting on some mascara and foundation but that's not like I feel like the day of the wedding is the last thing you do for a bride. Before, you have to... At the moment, I answer to an inquiry. I'm already working for you. For me, I qualify that at the moment I answer to an inquiry. I'm already working for the bride. After, I have to prepare the quote. I have to... You have to chat with the bride before you go to get to know her, etc. Everything is counted. That's something that most hair and makeup artists, because I'm also a hair stylist, so even hair stylists and even in salons, like beauticians, hair salons, hair stylists, etc., it's always the same problem. They really charge what they do because they only value what they do and what people can see. They don't put value on the other stuff they do that people don't see. And that's... the part that really add the price because most hair and makeup artists also i feel because i had the question lately on tic tac because i'm trying to grow on tick tock you know like because we did we did not talk about but tick tock is also important especially for gen z so i'm trying to grow on tick tock actually and i found a bride that was asking what is the difference brief between a bridal makeup or and a brother air makeup and against hair and makeup what's the difference of price and i know that this question a lot of hair and makeup artists do not know how to answer they're just like i think that's actually part of the issue as well yeah my hair and makeup artists need educating on why they're charging more because some of them actually don't know and

• Speaker #1

  some of them are just charging more because they've been told to and i think we need to educate them on why because i get the wrong answers as well and it really frustrates me because it's not being taken seriously and this Because why people... questioning that value is that saying oh we're using more expensive stuff and it's going to last longer and it's like yeah that's every makeup application should be lasting as long as well don't use different products i don't i actually kept because i do bridal but i'm not going to not use those products on other people or the bridesmaid bride but what i am going to do is communicate with that bride ahead of time yeah some hand holding frankly because the first time she's got married and put in a lot of hours unseen as you've said charging for it it's it's not just the products because again we're gonna have to use those on everyone anyway it doesn't and I just think that's where I think the translation gets lost don't take us seriously as well like I understand I understand it from the bride's perspective as like I've just come to you for an occasion makeup and it was like 85 quid in your salon so why the hell am I paying 500 pounds like exactly but at the same time they were so like a hugely different service you're asking me to reserve it in my car for a year ahead I can't take any other bookings that day. There's so many reasons. And I think that's one thing hair and makeup artists could work on is understanding that better. And also, those who are charging too little, they need to understand that better because I do understand when you start, you need to charge less to be able to get people through the door. But I think you're almost better off doing model days, working for free. rather than devaluing the entire industry by going so low that it's almost not worth working like I keep there's someone who keeps posting on my local Facebook page 50 pound makeup for weddings and I'm like can you just like it's every single two weeks that she posts and it makes me so angry yeah yeah yeah no no yeah that's a that's a huge huge huge huge problem because they there's a lack of education and

• Speaker #0

  that's that's where the thing going going to change like Because at the moment, the hair and makeup artists are more educated, the less there's going to be this miscommunication between clients and hair and makeup artists. And when I explained to the bride, she really appreciated and really understood because she was saying, why? Because sometimes there are some brides that are fake. They're fake saying they're guests. And then you come over here.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah,

• Speaker #0

  they're fake. I told her that if you come to me and say you're a guest, I won't book you. Because if I book you, I'm not going to do my objective, my money that day. So I don't book only guests. I book only brides. But I can book a bride alone, but I can never book a guest alone. I prefer not taking that booking because you are going to take a place of a bride. So for the guests, I will tell them, come back one month later because we have no idea. That's what I say. So if you can explain this to people, how do you expect them to pay you when they ask you? Then you're like, oh, well, like, you know, you know, you have to pay taxes because that's also the answer. You know, I have to you have to pay taxes. I have I have good products. Like, unfortunately, you have good products.

• Speaker #1

  I think it's so important. I think. Yeah, I think that's that's the thing. I'm even trying to occasionally document. the back end of things of showing all the like off the slow season like I'm in slow season but I don't feel like I've had loads of time off because I'm not getting weddings at the moment because I'm doing my trials I'm doing my discovery calls I'm doing emails like January was nuts for inquiries so I was spending every single day trying to keep on top of my emails on top of that I've been doing content days learning like there's all these things they do need to be factored in that time spent like honing that craft does need to be considered in your wages because otherwise you are just constantly working for free um and I think every other product like you this for example this mascara they pay for marketing and they pay for those photo shoots and all of that comes into consideration when they're pricing this product it shouldn't be different for a service we've got to consider all of those things and elements that come into running a business yeah exactly exactly that's a very nice topic like very important for people.

• Speaker #0

  oh why didn't we talk about this from the beginning put it in certain bits yeah yeah yeah no no that's true that's true like there there's some there's still some road to go but i feel like it's getting better and better and better um and i'm happy about that because having people like kelly that with her podcast that she talked about all this thing I feel like Kelsey as people like you the more air and makeup artists are going to talk about this that's why that's the reason why i created my podcast because i always add this um desire to to teach to learn to to teach people etc but i was like there are a lot of air and makeup artists that do a great job um teaching training uh on the practical side i don't want to be one more teaching on the practical side. I want to be that. person that would come and break and make people find you understand was it different by a bride and a guest was why is important to even count your like when you buy a notebook that enter inside your expensive when you buy a pen that enter inside your expensive like i there are a lot of um air makeup artists here in france that don't count their foil that they put inside their car as part of their business.

• Speaker #1

  but you're using your car to go to work so even that's also the wear and tear on the car it's also the yeah if you're paying a lease exactly payment it's your insurance everything it's the mileage that you're putting on it like struggling at the moment my lease is about to run out and i've gone well over my mileage because i've been doing so many miles i'm gonna have to pay thousands to the lease because i've gone over and now i need to get a new car and i'm like i need to buy something I can run into the ground because

• Speaker #0

  leasing doesn't make sense if I'm gonna have to pay this premium every time I go over my mileage I don't want to limit my mileage so it's like all these things yeah exactly that that everything has to be counted that's why because I created um like uh like you know on google sheet like something that you you count your personal expenses then after your work expenses and that counts the personal expenses give your salary then after you have your job expenses and after that show you well I have to make this per year and then after per hour that counts like like I do one hour I meet for by part bride so then one hour is like my cost for one always like 45 euro or 100 euro or 200 whatever is your hour you have to count you have to know your expenses your personal expenses and your business expenses are all important because sometimes the issue is also that people just count the job expenses. but don't count that they have to get left at the end like oh i don't understand his b tenure is like i'm not paying myself that well when did you count your expenses like count them in like then after you get paid so yeah there's so much to take in mind when you're doing your prices and and fortunately there are a lot of people that talk about it more and more and more and more and as selling a course the more you talk about it the more people know about it the more people will buy and the more people will adhere to the idea.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, I mean, I keep trying to post, I've got a close friend's story on Instagram as well, which is just makeup artists and I keep trying to post whenever I raise my prices, I put it on there and say, just this is a sign, if you're thinking about it, this is what I'm charging, you could probably charge similar and people always reply and like, oh my God, this is the push I needed. And like, yeah, I understand from the bride's perspective, it's frustrating when everyone keeps putting their prices up, but our industry needs to, We all need to. And I think. the only way we're going to is if we keep talking about it openly and educating ourselves and our brides on why we need to be charging more and i even actually wrote a blog ages ago on this subject of why is it more for bridal and i even now include that in when i send a pdf pack with every quote it gives me like gift to bride information and at the bottom of that it has q and a's and on one of those q and a's is why is it more expensive and it has a link to the blog post so I don't ever get that question anymore which is so nice because it really upsets me when I do and also that blog brings traffic to my website because it is a question that's getting searched so like another idea is if you're if you feel like people are asking that question a lot and you need to be able to justify it it's worth just save yourself the time and just have a link you can send and go here you go I wrote this because I totally understand that it can be confusing but here you go it's the information you need

• Speaker #0

  and i can always send you that link as well if you want because i think that could be yeah what class in case anyone needs it to be able to understand it further yeah definitely i'll put the link under the like by the way you can find zoe information on the show notes of this episode and i'll also put the link of your of your so that that makes a backlink also i'll

• Speaker #1

  send you the link to the blog because i think yeah i think it's that easy to access because i think it's more like i haven't got it on my main my menu okay but it is still Bye-bye.

• Speaker #0

  okay okay yeah yeah because that's part of SEO because blogging blogging because I do I also do blogging and that's a product I feel a lot of hair and makeup artists don't think about that part like just other website with the main page about you and your your your pricing maybe with that price like your services and that's all but a blogging

• Speaker #1

  oh wow like yeah yeah I need to do it more to be honest actually I've only done maybe two or three mainly kind of yeah destination weddings and pricing because again I'm confused with that because they're like oh my god why is it like three times the price of her UK because I've got to take three days out my diary so yeah yeah yeah and then obviously one about this so I think I need to get back into blogging yeah

• Speaker #0

  good for SEO yeah I feel blogging is it's coming back because I used to have a blog like some years ago like a military wife you know and on that blog like until i closed that that blog i had traffic without doing anything on it since 2019 and yeah the blogs are really powerful for seo so if you're thinking of having a blog this is your sign to have a blog on because they're they're not they're not a lot of air makeup artists that have blogs so is the moment to start blogging because after is going to be saturated and more difficult to go on blogging as you will be instagram all the stuff there there will still be there will still be space but it will be more difficult like if you start now so this is your sign to start a blog maybe i'll write a blog about this podcast ah there you go you can get a back link as well i'll write a blog about this podcast oh perfect thank you nice nice nice good good when you when you write the blog then send me then i'll just change on the show note also oh mmm What do you think is coming for the future Zoe Kennedy?

• Speaker #1

  Well, that's a good question. Well, I'm hoping more education because I am stepping into that space. So, yeah, more masterclasses. I mean, I did the educator program with Kaylee before she stopped doing it. And we just kind of start off with that saying that I wanted to do a bit of a Kelsey Bain, traveling the world, doing masterclasses. I think that I still would love that but also more than happy just to stay in the UK because it is quite stressful and like especially with that Amsterdam class that whole fandango that yeah that stuff you're like no you're okay but I mean I think it would be cool too and I think especially because I do do Destination I feel like it'd be quite rewarding helping the artists in the countries that brides are struggling to find artists helping them level up their game and their makeup style so that it suits that kind of bride that's looking but equally I'm like am I then just taking work away from myself potentially but I'm also I'm not that kind of person I'm like there's enough there's enough brides for everyone and

• Speaker #0

  I love teaching I don't I don't try not to see it like that in that they're not my competition they're they're my colleagues they're like we're all supporting each other so yeah and since you're very good at SU etc and maybe do you think that maybe one day you would like to like um

• Speaker #1

  uh like have a team or maybe you already have a team with you uh that work with you i've always considered it i think the main thing that's put me off is just managing people isn't my best skill i'm a bit too much of a people pleaser i'm a bit too nice to be a bit more cutthroat um and also for me like i've built up such a name for myself that my fear of like letting go of the control a little bit is hard because I feel like I work extremely hard I'm not sure I know that many people who are willing to put in as many hours as I am. So I feel like it would be really hard to like, I don't know, I would be scared to lose that reputation if I was to introduce other people. But saying that I do have a salon and my salon has girls that work under my name in some way. So I do technically have a team, just not necessarily a bridal team. That for me is a bit too.

• Speaker #0

  scary for now i wouldn't say i'll write it off um but yeah i feel bridal and salon is a bit different like is i'll be more confident to have a team in a salon than for bridal because bridal is very very very tied into you like your name your zoe kennedy like it's like if something mess up it's your name not just your reputation it's your name that is that could be um in the Saloon, yeah, like...

• Speaker #1

  your salon you you is more easy to delegate in salon yeah they're also rented chair as well so they technically have their own business within my business it's not my business if that makes sense but equally they do still represent me and I do make that clear to them and they've all been amazing and I do bring them with me to weddings as assistants so in some ways they are my team it's just I don't book their own jobs for them for weddings because that's just something I'm not not quite there yet but I won't write it off um I think it would just, I'd need to have the right people and maybe have some training on being a bit more cutthroat perhaps.

• Speaker #0

  Oh, okay, nice. Well, I wish you all the good too. I wish all this to happen and voila. That was very nice. Thank you, Zoe. Thank you. What do you think that the people listening to us should take from this episode?

• Speaker #1

  I think definitely look at your systems, look at your SEO, look at your... uh website make sure you have one i mean you can build it yourself these days i've built my website i just built my partner's website for him like you don't need to pay someone necessarily if you want it more luxury then perhaps it's worth investing but i'm too much of a control freak but you can do it yourself um and also yeah just look at look at your pricing and make sure you are actually breaking even even if you're new you don't need to be the cheapest you just need to be making sure you're making profit and if if you want to get more clients Going cheaper isn't necessarily the best way. Just trying to become more visible is what my advice would be rather than going for the cheaper rates. I think often it's a visibility issue rather than a pricing issue.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. Thank you. Question. What's your partner going to do as a wedding vendor?

• Speaker #1

  So he's doing mini golf for weddings.

• Speaker #0

  Oh,

• Speaker #1

  yeah. He's built them all himself. And I'm trying to help him run his socials because he doesn't know what he's doing. I helped him make a website and email and like, yeah, his social media, because I think I just wanted to make sure if he launched it, he launched it properly.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. OK. OK. OK. Well, wish him all the good also. That's a very nice idea. That's like, OK, mini golf. OK.

• Speaker #1

  But it's popular in the UK. I don't think there's anything in France yet. So maybe we'll have to wait.

• Speaker #0

  No, no, no. No, that's quite like I've never heard about that. Once I saw a new vendor at a soirée that was proposing yoga for yoga and coffee. She proposed coffee and yoga, like the husband, coffee, and she proposed yoga. And they were like, okay, okay, why not? Well,

• Speaker #1

  the thing is, especially with destination brides, there's multi-day events. And I think one of the destination brides I've got this year in Sicily, she sent me her wedding website and she had options for the day. the day after the wedding and it was like pizza making or i think it was a yoga session or it was like a wine tasting and they all guests can pay their own way for that but it was like 25 euros each and it's just a nice way to like give people stuff to do without necessarily out of the bride and groom's pocket and i think that could become more popular with destination it's oh very very nice i'm taking the pizza idea Thank you.

• Speaker #0

  yeah thank you very much zoe i had a very great moment with you oh yeah lovely hi thank you yay thank you so much for listening if this episode resonated with you make sure to subscribe and leave a review on apple podcast or spotify it truly helps the podcast grow you'll find all the details about today's guest as well as how to connect with both of us in the show notes and And if you'd like to connect directly, you can find me on Instagram at ValentinaDenis. See you next week for more Real Talk.