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We had legend Michael Owen join us for this episode, a Ballon d'Or winner talking about all things football.
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Ten minutes gone. He could be away here. Michael Owen. He's got goals with him. But it's still Owen. Oh, what a goal This 18-year-old has electrified the world.
Welcome to today's podcast where we are joined by our best guest today, Mr Michael Owen. Thank you for joining us.
It's very kind of you to say so.
Not often you get a balance of time at all.
Apt timing isn't it I guess with the award coming soon.
Yeah, but yeah, so we're going to basically talk about your career and some of the stories and everything else. But first thing I've got to ask, what was it like?
clean the cake very good very good we had a big
French influence at the time you know Gerard Houllier came in and signed a lot of players and understandably that you would know that you would be aware of we had some yeah some some great players that joined at the time we had a big clear out under Gerard Houllier right I think it was before Gregory came to Liverpool, but we had the likes of Sammy Hippie, Stefan Hentschel, Sander Wessler. We had like a group of 12, 14 players or something that signed in that summer. I can't quite remember. There were loads of players signed. And then after that, you know, gradually he just picked up one or two along the way. But yeah, it was good days, the great days. I really enjoyed those moments.
But I'm curious to know... Who was the first senior player, obviously you're breaking through at Liverpool at such a young age, who was the first senior player who looked after you on that team? Because that team was full of legends.
It was. I think Jamie Redknapp was a real good friend of mine, a real kind guy. Lived on this side of the water, so spent a bit of time with him. He probably had that caring influence, I'd say, on me. I obviously got into the team when the likes of Steve McManam and Robbie Fowler were around, but Robbie was a centre forward and I was a centre forward and we were very similar. And if I was 25 now and a young kid came into the group, you do want to help them, but also you don't want them to take your place. It's a very strange sort of thing. It is a team and if everybody is doing so well, then it should benefit everybody. Not to the expense of you type of attitude. It's very strange. I mean, I can't imagine a goalkeeper and a second goalkeeper would be the best of friends if they were really going at it. I mean, it's dog eat dog in many ways. So I'd say if I had to pick one, I mean, we had John Barnes was a great, a lovely influence on us. What a player he was. But I think Jamie Redknapp had that really nice, caring nature about him. And he always took me under his wing.
Stefan Inschel told us the same thing about you.
Yeah?
Yeah.
Jamie's a lovely guy. Really caring and a nice person. Yeah. And you know as well as I do, Gregory, different players in different positions have different attitudes. I mean, goalkeepers are a little bit different to everybody else. Yeah. Centre forwards. If you're a goal scorer, it is like you are just goals, You don't think about the team. You're just so... zoned in and if you're not like that you tell me if you know Alan Shearer and Wayne you know there's so many great strikers none of them are happy if they if they don't score yeah Ruud van Nistelrooy was all everybody used to joke about Ruud van Nistelrooy they if they win five nil but he didn't score he would have a mood until the next game that's the sort of what what people used to say well I was a little bit like that as well and I joke now you know with people on the television. that I work with, the Robbie Fowlers, the Jermaine Defoe, we're all the same. We're all a little bit different to your left back or your right back or your central midfield player, the team players. And you need all those elements in a team for it to work.
Yeah. Even at such a young age, because you're similar age to me, just growing up and seeing a young guy doing all that, you're just like, fucking... How can you deal with that pressure and stuff? I was still playing like... out in the streets and stuff yeah but yeah
Gordon doing it in such pressures are really interesting topic though because I don't believe in pressure I'd believe in it if you're not very good at something or you can't do something if you ask me now to go and play golf and you know you guys were watching me I'd be thinking you haven't seen me before I might go that way it might go they might go that way it might go it couldn't go any way yeah But when you're good at something, when you can do something, I don't think there's any footballer that goes to sleep the night before thinking, oh, no, I'm playing football tomorrow. I'm so nervous that this could go wrong. I just don't think it. Does a pilot, ultimate responsibility. He's got 500 people behind him. It's his or her job to make you all safe. Do you think that they're like, oh, no, this pressure on me. Of course they don't. They're trained. They know it. They do it all the time. Do you think a brain surgeon is going to sleep the night before thinking, can't have a glass of red wine because I'm about to save a child's life? These are the like, you know, we're talking there's so much more pressure than playing football. You know, and I don't believe that these people go to sleep thinking, oh, I can't do my job till I'm so nervous about saving it. No, they focus. They're just, they've done it before. They're expert in it and, you know, they're going to give it, you know, their best attempt. and if it doesn't work, but they can live with it. They're just very, very good at what they do. I just don't think when you do something very well, I just don't think pressure... I never, ever thought, oh, no, the whole of Liverpool are expecting me to score, the whole of England are hoping that I'm going to score. I love that, the fact that people thought that of me, but I didn't shrink. I didn't think, oh, no, I'm so nervous and this pressure is becoming overwhelming. I just don't believe it. Pressure is something when you're not sure you can do it, in my eyes.
But you have this expectation on your shoulder for Liverpool, for your country.
Of course. So it's massive. It's an expectation. It is a pressure. Of course it is. When I look back now and think, oh, wow, yeah, actually you were carrying expectations. So of course it is a prep, but when you're doing it, and I give other examples of different jobs, whether you're a pilot, whether you're a brain surgeon, whatever you do, whether you're a golfer. I don't think that people that do the job consistently, I don't think that they, I think if they feel the pressure to, I don't think you'd be able to do the job. I just don't think, I just think if you're very, very capable of doing something, then I don't think you feel pressure. I don't think, anyway, that's my experience.
You clearly didn't.
No, I don't, no.
Witches.
But I do feel pressure. Yeah. I'm not immune as a person to not feel pressure. as I say if we play golf now I'd be like a bit nervous if you put 100 people watching me play I'd be oh my word I'd start thinking I'd start you know
I would be feeling big pressure but put a million people watching me play football bring it on it's like that's that's the easy bit yeah that's what I do that's what Brian Clough used to always say you can't really do anything if you're feeling pressure you can't well you need to relax and yeah do what you're good at so yeah absolutely and
that doesn't just come. I suppose some people's character is a certain way, but that is practice. That is repetition over years and years and years and years and years of going through on goalkeepers and thinking, right, what gives me the best chance? I always used to watch Ronaldo. He used to run through and step over, step over, step over and go past a goalkeeper, virtually always. So I used to try it and I tried it and tried it and tried it. I just didn't feel it. Just didn't feel it.
It's interesting because he said, Many years of work, you never said something about the talent.
Yeah.
You have the talent, but the talent doesn't beat, you know, how much you work.
Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
And I remember you in the training ground hitting the ball, you know, and to perform.
Do you know what the one thing that hindered my finishing in many ways, it helped in so many ways, is when I was very young, I was so much faster than everybody else when I was 10 or 12. So every single time I played in a... tee in a game, I would score five, six, seven, eight goals. But I would have 20 chances. The ball would chip out over the top. So I always had so much time. So I always put it on my right foot, because I wanted to score. And then I would try going around the goalkeeper, and I'd try chipping, and I'd try sliding, and I'd try all these different finishes. And of course, that's where you develop these. So if you put a goal in front of me now, drop a ball, I would just know what type of finish. based on where I am, how the ball is sitting, where the goalkeeper and all these things. It just becomes natural and instinctive. But because I was always faster than everybody as a young boy, I never used to take it on my left foot. So then I almost had to learn on the job in the first team because now all of a sudden I have a great defender on my right-hand side and the goal is there. I've got to take the ball away from him and he was just as fast. So then I'd have to hit it with my left foot. So I was learning on the job. when I was in the first team.
Yeah.
I'd always been so, so I'd perfected my skill in terms of when I broke free, I knew exactly what to do, but then... The challenging part came when I was under pressure with bigger, stronger, faster men. And then I had to sort of, as I say, learn on the job, which was quite an interesting thing for me. And the one thing I do regret was when I was younger, not being good enough, not practicing my left foot enough. I was good enough to strike the ball and hit it, but I wasn't good enough with my left foot, which was one regret I had.
Yeah. I'm just curious when you're saying you know you were young you were scoring all those goals and everything else what was the step up like playing against obviously premiership guys experienced strong was that obviously it wasn't a struggle for you but there must be some massive difference I know I don't know I don't it
didn't really it didn't really stop me or affect me of course it gets better, the standard gets better. And I must admit, when I'm jogging onto the pitch to make my debut in the first team, and then you score a goal on your debut, the feeling of relief, thinking all that, all that expectation and belief that you've had for so long, I don't care what you've done, and I had a really good junior youth career, there's nothing quite like now playing in the seeing it against men and thinking, can I? do this.
Yeah.
You still have question marks. Can I translate all this potential? And obviously I scored within five, 10 minutes of my debut.
Yeah.
So then all of that belief and confidence just comes flooding through thinking, yeah, 17 years of practice, of work, of belief, of it is actually, it is going to happen. Yeah. I am good enough, you know, but you can't help but have that question. But no, I didn't, I didn't really. ever hit a level where I thought, oh no, this is now too difficult. It all pretty much went smoothly. The only time I've ever looked at somebody and thought, oh no, oh no, was I think when Thierry Henry came into the league. And I thought, when I saw him, I thought... Because with other strikers...
Different profile.
Exactly. Just too good at everything. We had great strikers, Van Nistelrooy and Shearer and Rooney. There's loads and loads of great strikers over the years. But I never thought intimidate. I never thought, oh my word, he is so much better than me. I always thought I could hold my own against anybody. I could win the golden boot and etc. But when I saw Thierry Henry, I thought, that's the last golden boot I'm ever going to win. I just didn't, I couldn't see how... He is just so much, he was another level. That's true. Yeah, and I just thought, and that was the only time really that I've sat back. And when I was growing up, when I was watching R9 on the television, and I thought, you know, I was playing for England, under 15s, under 16s, breaking every record. I was the new, you know, everybody knew I was going to make it. And I thought I was, and I was playing all these, I played Brazil and I played Germany. I played all these countries at international level and in my age group. And I was, you know, one of the best players. But when I watched the television, I thought, oh my word, if that's the level you need, this is going to be difficult to be a professional footballer. Because he was just... So they're the two players that made me sit back and think, oh, I don't like this. I don't like this.
It's not a bad two to be up against. Who was the toughest defender you came up against when you went, I hate playing against that guy?
Ah, it's amazing because I've just literally travelled back from the Far East. I got home last night and we were playing in an old Legends game and I was playing against Yap Stam. Ah. Now, he wasn't bad. He was fast and strong and read the game and he was very, very good.
Aggressive.
Oh, very aggressive. I always struggled. Do you know who I didn't like playing against? Was it Marcel Desailly? Oh. When he came to Chelsea. The problem is... You don't like playing against the good teams in many ways because you hardly get any chances anyway.
Yeah.
And then when you do, if you're playing against a great centre-half, which invariably you do, like playing against Arsenal, you know, against the Invincibles, they'd have 70% of the ball. So as soon as you get it, like for one minute, and then Sol Campbell's behind you, it's like, you know, John Terry, Rio Ferdinand. I mean, they were all so... poor y'all. I hated playing against Puyol at Barcelona because again, they'd have 80% of the possession. Were you in the team when we went to Barcelona? We drew 0-0. I don't think I touched the ball once.
Yeah.
And then we beat them 1-0 at Anfield and we went on to win the UEFA Cup, which was incredible. I always look back fondly at those years because football, it will always change. Life will always change in every single way and there's nothing bad about that. But the profile of players around then was what I believe football really was. You know, like some of the great players around. Wow. And now, obviously, we're in an era now where it's so scientific, so, you know, running-based, athletic. And you would never have got in the team just being a runner back in the day. But likewise, some of the great players back in our days, you know, well, those players play now. You know, the Cantona's, the Leticia's, the people that don't do the hard yards. Yeah. But had genius qualities. Bergkamp and Zollers and all those great players. They didn't...
Schillingham.
Yeah, but they wouldn't have the running stats nowadays. And I just... They were the people that you pay to go and watch. They were the genius, class players. France had loads of them. The Djorkaevs and the Dugarys around that time. Yeah, that was the generation that I thought football was for me. I might be biased. We might be biased because it was our generation. There were some unbelievable players.
Aye. Anyway, I want to talk to you about that Argentina goal in France 98. Was that the moment, because obviously you were playing for Liverpool, you were doing really well, but was that the moment where things just went up to another level in terms of fame and getting hassled in the street and everything else?
Yeah, absolutely. I was waiting to hear how you finished the question then, because certainly not in terms of performance. And I mean, that was just as... not a standard but that's what I did around that time it wasn't a goal that you think oh my word Michael Owen scored I just won the golden boot in my first year in the Premier League so I was scoring plenty of goals and scoring goals for England so that was the type of thing I could do back then I couldn't have done it when I was 27 or 28 I physically couldn't have done that but obviously at that time I could do it but yeah that changed my life off the pitch I mean yeah yeah the in. everything about it, you know, around the world. I mean, obviously in the Premier League, the league was a big league in 98, but that opened it up to people knowing you all around the world.
Is there any nerves at the World Cup? I know you said you'd never have a ball, but even going to the World Cup?
Yeah, you're on edge, but you're wanting to do it. You can't wait to get at them, to get on that pitch. and go and do your stuff so it's more of an anticipation a few nerves yeah yeah because you know how big the game is um but at the time and that was to my advantage i think being young you have no scars yeah you've hardly had any you know failures in your life um you You believe you're Superman.
Yeah.
And, you know, and that's the... that's the beauty of being young. Of course, being older, you have the experience, but also a little bit of fear creeps in and a little bit of, you know, you look at who you're playing against and say, I didn't care. I didn't even, you know. So I think being young was a huge advantage, if anything. People look at you and say, 18, how did you do that? Surely you're a disadvantage. I think it's an advantage. If you've got the capability and the mindset to do it, I think it just, you're so free and so... carefree yeah you don't you you just think as i say you think you're superman that's a very unique thing to have though i think if someone threw me into a world cup at 18 i would shit the bed and literally but you wouldn't if you were if i was that good probably exactly exactly if someone if someone asked you to interview the most famous person in the world now i don't think you would shit the bed i think you know because you've done it and you're capable of doing it and you can hold the conversation you wouldn't yeah whereas a lot of people would because they can't do that so It just depends what you're trained at, what you're talented at. So if you can do it, you're not nervous about doing it. It goes back to what we said before about the pressure of doing it. People only think that I should have been nervous and they can't believe that I could have done it because they aren't a talented footballer themselves, but they're talented in another way. And I sort of marvel at other people thinking, how do you do that under so much pressure? That's just incredible. But it's only the same thing in a different life.
So I'm curious to know how life changed for you after that World Cup. Did you have to move away to a... quieter area? Did you have to have security people kicking around with you at that point? Because surely fans and everything would have been pissed at you. Yeah. You were the poster boy of football, really.
Yeah. I mean, I guess having a steady, strong family around you and growing up with that supportive family helps with your character. I always think, when I get asked this question, I always try, or I don't try, I always flip it on its head and say, people think... when somebody becomes famous or has a bit of success, people always think, how did it change you? But I would turn it around and say, it changes other people, their attitude towards you more than the other way around in many cases. Friends, family members, they all of a sudden, I came back from the World Cup, I hadn't scored a goal and they're like, oh my God, you're like the world. No, I'm... I'm your brother.
Yeah.
I'm your son. I'm your cousin. I'm your best friend. Always have been, always will be. I'm not a different person. I've just done something pretty cool. Yeah. But that's all it is. It's everybody's reaction to you that changes. Yeah. It's not necessary. I didn't, having scored a goal, I don't come back now thinking I'm six foot tall and I can talk down to people and I can, you know, do you know what I mean? I lose my manners all of a sudden.
Yeah.
What changes about me? yeah like what changed about i don't think anything um it's people's reaction and that some people are so you know oh wow that that's that's unbelievable what's just happened like and they they don't treat you like they not used to treat you just like talk to you like you i'm just still a normal person i mean it's not like i'm an alien that's just come i've just done my job and come home so but yes it did change um little things My routine changed a little bit. My mum, God love her, she... Like, fan mail, for example. We used to get sort of four big sacks, on average about four a day. So you would have like thousands and thousands and thousands of letters. But my mum obviously was very new to all this and I didn't really have a... I had an agent, but we were... But my mum was like, you can't ignore the fans. You know, you can't. Don't you be getting too big for your boots. You can't ignore the fans. So I'd be getting home at one o'clock from training and I'd be sitting. My mum all morning had been, you know, laying it all out, getting the envelopes, stamps, and, you know, all on the... So everything, I'd come home and the house was covered in letters. I'd be signing, signing. Right, this one, you've got to do this. And that one, you've got to do that. And this is an inquiry from a sponsor. And this is... And honestly... I'd be getting to bed at 10, 11 o'clock at night, having just signed and signed and signed. And after doing it for weeks and weeks and weeks, it was just like, this cannot continue. We can't live our life like this. If I spend one day that I'm not at home, the backlog, I'd be going into the early hours of the morning. So little things like that, that people don't even... But that's a massive change in my life. And that then affects the way I prepare for the next game, etc. So we had to bring in... My agent had to get more involved. We employed somebody to actually, on a full-time basis, sort out, you know, these are all inquiries for sponsors. These are all charity inquiries. These are all autographs. Now, Michael can't physically sign all the autographs at thousands and thousands every day. Yeah. So we created sort of a, you know, a bit of a photo, you know, with a printed signature on with, you know, with a thank you for your blowout. Anyway, so... We had to change different bits, but little things like that changed. You know, going in and getting recognised and, you know, I can't even play golf with my dad anymore without five, six, seven, eight paparazzi or rustling in the bush, taking pictures of you on every hole. And it's just like, oh, come on. Now that fades over a little bit of time, which is cool. But it was definitely a change, especially only being 18. You know, you couldn't go to the newsagents without people taking photos, being all over the papers, Michael Owen.
came out and he bought oh wow he bought a dairy milk bar of chocolate like in the newspaper why are you following me you know it's just anyway that was just the life at the time but uh it was it was definitely it definitely changed yeah no and uh i was i've just always curious to hear how you would have to adapt to things like doing that family or anything that must be yeah little things that people probably don't
even realize actually um You know, people obviously assume that you go to training, you eat the right food, you have a sleep, you do this, you do that, you live like a professional. But people don't sort of, you know, allow for things like fan mail, things like sponsorships. you know, filming adverts. God, after the World Cup, I was doing Walker's Crisps. I was doing Umbro Boots. I was doing a calendar shoot. I was doing, I think it was Purcell. I was doing, I had a watch company. I had a Jaguar car deal. I had dozens and dozens and dozens of different sponsorships that all want their two, three, four days a year. When you... bring it all together and all your training and all your traveling and all your games and all your this and that and the other you get a spare day and well you don't get a spare day with all this do you have this conversation with the boss when you're you're no try to hide it from the boss in a way because if he knew if i was playing on a saturday and he knew i was doing a five hour photo shoot or advert on a thursday he probably wouldn't have been happy So I would never do on a Friday, you know, the day before a game. we didn't have enough days in the week to manage the expectation or manage that you know what was being thrown upon me at the time so um because the boss was very much the case of you know relaxing family you know don't be doing this don't be you know but obviously my agent is like no no we need to do this we need to do this so it was it was quite difficult so um so no i didn't I didn't mention it too much, just kept it quiet, secret.
What move on to the Ballon d'Or, winning that in 2001? Yeah. Yeah, 2001 Ballon d'Or. When did you start to get a feeling you were in with a chance of being up there? That is just something that kids dream of, that stuff.
Well, I'm going to tell you, Gregory will probably fall off his chair, but... I didn't know what the Ballon d'Or was. And I knew that there was an award. I knew there was an award to vote for and to crown the best player in the world that year. I knew there was one out there, but I didn't know what it was called. Bear in mind, Gregory, no English player used to win it. We had Kevin Keegan, Sir Stanley Matthews, Sir Bobby Charlton. Sadly, all three of them have passed away, but we hadn't. had an English player since 1979, I think. Was it Keegan, 79?
Yeah.
He won it twice. Was it 78 and 79? It might be. Anyway, it just wasn't in our newspapers and social media wasn't there at the time. So we just didn't promote it because nobody ever won it. And it was always a Spanish player or a French player or Portuguese or whoever it was. And so I had never been told about it. And I remember playing Roma in the UEFA Cup and Phil Thompson, we were never allowed our phones, were we? Like phone ban all the time. Gerard Houllier hated us on phones. Anyway, Phil Thompson went like this, literally 45 minutes before kickoff. I'm like, what's he want? He's already picked the team. He can't sort of change the team now. He said, I've got the boss on the phone because Gerard had just had the heart problem. So he was lying in hospital, but he wanted to tell me. So he said, get out into the corridor. The boss wants to speak to you. And I thought, is he going to give me a team talk? Or what's happening here? And he said, he said, Michael, I want to tell you before you play. I want to give you a boost. You mustn't tell anybody. This is a secret for the next two weeks. It's not been announced yet, but you've won the Ballon d'Or. And I said, boss, what's that? He said, it's the Ballon d'Or. It's the... it's the vote for the best player in the block. And he started explaining it. I was like, oh my word, that's unbelievable. And I was thrilled. Don't get me wrong, I was so happy. But when he first said it to me, I was like, don't know what that is. And so, yeah, so I can't say that leading up to it, I was thinking anything other than just, you know, playing for Liverpool and whatever, you know, there was no campaign to get the votes in or... Like now, you know, everybody's, Yamal is texting and saying, oh, I deserve to win it because of this. And then Bafe saying I should win it because of this. You know, there was no campaign. It was just, I only just found out then.
When I knew he won the Ballon d'Or, it was amazing.
Yeah.
He didn't realize.
No, and the crazy thing is, on the continent back in the day, when I went to Real Madrid, it's the only thing they were saying, Michael, I win the Ballon d'Or. Every time they say my name, it follows with Ballon d'Or. It's such a... It's such a thing. And it's such a thing, don't get me wrong, in the UK now. Now people know about it. And obviously, we've got maybe a chance this year with the likes of Harry Kane. But now everybody knows about it. And social media does a great job as well. But at the time...
Until that phone call, I didn't know what it was.
Who were you up against for that year?
Second was Raul. Oliver Kahn was up there. But of course, Henri's and Zidane's were in the... It was not a World Cup year. It was 2001, so it was obviously an in-between year. We had won all those. We had won five trophies in one year. England had had a really good season, probably highlighted by the Germany 5-1. So yeah, it was obviously a really good generation. I mean all the great French players at the time that had just won the World Cup in 98. And then you had some, you know, R9 was around and you had your Del Pierros and your Totties and Shevchenkos and Batastutas, all those great players at the the time so yeah it was a it was a great era of football in fact I came fourth in it in 1998 and I didn't even know. But when I looked at the lists after I'd won it, I thought, oh my word, I came fourth in 98. But I think that when you look at the players, and I've looked at all the lists of over the generations, when you look at the players that were in the top 20, 98, 99, oh my word, you've never seen anything like it. You've never seen anything like it. It's unbelievable, the players around them. Gerard Houllier was... so proud. Like, I couldn't believe, I was thinking, he was, he was almost like emotional that one of his players had won the Ballon. It, and obviously it's, you know, it's a French award back in the day, you know, and all the rest of it. And I guess that he's been part of that federation and obviously part of French football for so many years. It meant so much to him and his family and the way his family came in to, to see my family, you know, after the, the, after I had won it at Anfield in the players lounge and the emotion from him and I couldn't I couldn't believe it but it's when Gregory says things like that now it it sort of resonates yeah and to this day I mean it actually means more to me every day that goes past yeah you know Greg's right when I when I won when I won it there's that much in your career you know three days I lifted up the trophy at Anfield but I'm about to play Derby County in the league you know I'm like got to score got to win forget that trophy I'll look at that after and then you get off the you know and you take it home and you put it in your cabinet but then two days later you're playing against somebody else and football is like that it's just every other day you know and if I don't score the next week it's like oh Michael Owen how did he win the Ballon d'Or so you're constantly your mind is the next thing so it's better for me nowadays I'm not competing against anybody. I can look at that trophy. I can look back at the players I played with, the great times, the goals we scored, the trophies we won, and I can be really proud of it. So to this day, it means more to me today than it has in any point of my life, really. I just appreciate it more and more and more.
And where does that sit? In the house, up in the wall somewhere?
You've got to say it's secret.
Ah, right there, feeling off. I will tell you. Cut up the house. I had a... No, I had a cabinet made 20 years ago and all my trophies and medals are all in that cabinet. It's right in the middle. It's at the top in the middle and it's on a little plinth that just slowly spins around all day. There's nothing else that spins, just that one.
I am curious, there is like a ball ballon d'or or other ex-ballon d'or? Do you have any chat with them before the vote?
No, but you get invited every year to go.
The ceremony?
Yes. So I'm going to go this year. I've been before. I presented Cristiano Ronaldo at the Bernabeu with it. And I've been to one in Paris as well on the Eiffel Tower. But this year it's in London. So I'm going to go to it this year as well.
Why not? D-mate out.
Exactly. I've not been to many, but I'll go to this one.
I want to talk a bit about leaving Liverpool and going to Real Madrid. How did that come about? Were you just wanting to challenge yourself abroad, or was there Liverpool needed money?
I don't think either. I mean, it transpired that, yeah, like challenging yourself to go abroad, that's one of the sort of the reasons in your head. But at the time, I never, ever thought I would live. Liverpool. Me, Jamie Carragher, Steven Gerrard came through the ranks. It was just, this is our club. But Gerrard, Julien, left and Rafa Benitez had came in and we were on pre-season tour getting to know the new manager and my phone went we had finished a train we'd finished a training session Jamie Carragher was lying on that bed and I was on the bed over here and my agent phoned me and he used to phone me every two or three days I didn't think it was anything you know and I he said can you speak and I was like well Cara's my best mate he you know he's yeah yeah yeah I'm free yeah in between training sessions. And he said, there's a big interest in you from Real Madrid. They want to sign you. I was like, oh, my word, you're joking. And he said, yeah. I said, right, OK. And, you know, and what's, you know, go on, explain. And, well, blah, And he just started. So I spoke to the president. And he, you know, this and that and the other. So I said, fine, OK, put the phone down. And Cara obviously had heard the conversation. He just looked at me and went, don't.
Nope.
Don't do it. And I went, why not? He says, mate, they've got Ronaldo, they've got Raul, they've got Morientes, they're buying players all the time. He says, you're like the star here. You play every week. Fans love you and this and that and the other. You're not going to break in ahead of R9 and Raul. Raul's their golden child and R9 is the best player in the world. I just don't think you should. But him saying that, that's red rag to a bull for me. That's like, you don't think I can be better than them type of attitude. That's just my, what? I will show you. Anyway, for the next week, 10 days maybe, I couldn't get it out of my head. I was thinking, no, don't do it. Cara's right. Everything's great here. Everything's perfect. You live at home, Liverpool. great club, the fans love you and all the rest of it. And then the next day I'd wake up and think, do you know what? If you say no to that, you will regret it. This will be your only chance to have a move, just a move and to see something different in your life, to live in a different country, to speak another language, different food, different weather, that white kit, that stadium, new league, the players. It's the Galactico era. I mean, you had Zidane and Raul and Ronaldo and Roberto Carlos and Figo and Beckham. I mean, it was an unbelievable era. And I thought, you can always come back. You can always come back, but you'll never get a chance to go again. And then the next day I'd be thinking, no, no, no, don't do it. Don't be stupid. And it was just two every day. And it was getting me down a little bit. Obviously, it's a lovely problem to have, but it really wasn't. I wish the problem wasn't there.
Yeah.
in many ways at the time. Eventually, I just, I met Rafa Benitez because the club needed a decision and I met Rafa Benitez and I just said to him, I just feel as if I need to go and give it a try. But obviously, I almost want to shake your hand and say, can I come back in one year or two years?
Yeah.
So that's what we did. I sort of shook the hand of Rick Parry, who was our chief exec at the time, and said, you know, I know we can't put it into a contract maybe, but, you know. I don't want to leave. I want to come back. So we all agreed that that would be the case. I'd go and have a crack at it. So I cried all the way to the airport. I didn't want to leave Liverpool, but I did want to go and experience something. It was my decision and my decision only. I wasn't forced out. I wasn't held to ransom by it. It was all perfectly amicable. But I just thought, I've just got to try it. And that was the story, really. We'll all have times in our lives, you know.
Was your family there?
Yeah, but only my wife. And I had a one-year-old daughter as well at the time. So it was quite difficult. It was difficult for them, really difficult for them, because we lived in a hotel for the first five months and I was away all the time and my wife, different, no friends. It was quite difficult for her. But I've no, you know, people always ask me. do you regret going to a like leaving liverpool going to real madrid i'm like everybody has these moments in their life where they can go to that job or that job or marry this person or do this or buy that car or whatever we all have decisions all the time you know and mine was just a career decision that i wasn't changing jobs yeah in terms of you know i was still playing football just a different team happens all the time you know no it's like it was real madrid you've you've You've got to do it. Even, you know, the likes of Jamie Carrey that wanted me or saying don't do it, you know, they can accept that. Come on. It's real.
Exactly.
The quality of the players, Michael. Could you speak about this? Because when you play with these unbelievable players.
Yeah.
But the quality, you know, in training, the quality in games, the technique and everything.
Yeah.
It must be so.
Oh, it was an incredible generation. And the difficult thing was Barcelona had a great generation as well at the time with Etu and Ronaldinho and all their great midfield players. So it was just an... Unbelievable time. It was when Spanish football was the best. Those two teams were so much better than everyone else, I think, around that generation. In fact, both teams continued to go and dominate Europe after that. But the players themselves, yeah. I mean, the one player that stands out for me was Zidane. He was probably in the peak of his career. I mean, the speed, the strength, the technique, just a genius. It was just pure, just beautiful to watch him. He was just so elegant. If a ball comes to me and I want to go that way and it's bouncing up here, I think, right, chest it down and take it with my right foot, all in one nice movement. Just before we'd be coming, he would be looking and he would just sort of bump. In one movement, he would be running at top speed. but also have chested it down into everything that we normal people could do in two or three touches. He was just doing it in one and just natural and graceful, just amazing. To either foot, you know, manipulating the ball. I mean, I was good with a right foot, I could cruif turn or chop or this or that, but on my left, he could do everything with both feet. Just genius.
What do you see now with nationality? You know, we had a few things, you know, from the journalist.
Yeah.
He's still playing with the boys,
you know. He's just got the touch. He's like a magician. Yeah. There's not many people that have just got that. You know, Messi would have it. Zidane would have it. There's not many that just have got that. The rest of us will have to try and work on it. I mean, R9 was, like, in my opinion, the greatest of all time, in my opinion. But because he only for a short period of time, because then he got injured and a little bit like my career, but to the lesser extent. But, you know, I was very good, but then got injured and then I was just OK. But Ronaldo was still a great player, but he wasn't. So obviously I was privileged to play alongside him, but he wasn't the player of when he was 20. So he was great. And you could see in bits that he was just a genius as well. But of course, his physical, his knee was just... always preventing him from being like he was as a young player. But Figue, I tell you who I loved playing with was Guti. Guti was a dream for someone like me because every time he just wanted to play the killer pass. Zidane wouldn't want to give the ball away. So unless the ball was on, he would keep it and pass. But Guti was like, as soon as he got it, head up. Where's Michael Owen? Where's Ronaldo? Over the top. He just loved these passes, risky passes all the time. So I loved playing with Guti. It was great times. It was great fun. And, you know, I really enjoyed it. As I say, my family, they struggled a little bit and I always wanted to come back to the Premier League. You know, I'm a homeboy, really. I like being around my family and whatever, and the comforts of home. But I had such a good experience. I loved it.
Yeah. Nice. Ticked that box.
Yeah.
And then from there, over to Newcastle. Is it true? I don't know if this is bollocks or not, but you used to fly in a helicopter to training for Newcastle.
It's half true. Like anything in the newspapers, they always get like 10% right or 20% right. No, I'd obviously been away from home for a year and I wanted... Newcastle to work. First of all, I nearly signed for Liverpool, but Newcastle doubled the bid and Madrid would only send me to Newcastle, et cetera, et cetera. Anyway, long story short, I signed for Newcastle, but Newcastle's three and a half hours. One of the whole reasons for coming back to Newcastle was to be closer to home. I wanted my mum and dad to come and see me. I one of my wife, you know, my wife lived up with me with my daughter. We had our second child, son, while we were there. But I wanted to be able to, if we get Wednesday off, I wanted to have the flexibility of being able to go home after training on Tuesday, spend Tuesday afternoon at home. be here at Manor House Stables, big passion of mine, business that was growing. Then I'd be home all day Wednesday and then I could fly up at sort of eight o'clock, land at nine o'clock. We didn't have to be in till 10 o'clock. So it was brilliant. Match days, my mum and dad could fly up and watch me. I didn't want, you know, ageing parents driving up three and a half hours or every single, you know, we sometimes played twice a week.
Yeah.
So I just thought, and it... It's one of those things. In hindsight, you think, I shouldn't have done it because of what people say, what people think. But then part of me thinks, you know what, I don't care what people say and think. I only did it for mainly my family so we could see each other more. My mum and dad and brothers and sisters could come up and watch me. It was quite hard in Madrid not seeing my family for a whole year. To say that I used to go in and out of training every day is rubbish. I mean, it would basically be, if we had one game on a Saturday, let's say, one game on a Saturday every week, we'd have Sunday off and we'd have Wednesday off. So after the game on Saturday, we would fly home and I'd spend all of Sunday home and fly back up Monday. I'd spend Monday and Tuesday there, fly back Tuesday afternoon, spend Wednesday at home and then fly up Thursday morning, spend Thursday, Friday, Saturday up there. And I had a house there.
Yeah.
bought a house there, lived there for four years. You know, so, and not always would we have only one game in a day, in which case I'd not fly home. But it was just a really handy way of seeing my family a lot more. But obviously, from my image point of view, it didn't help. Because as soon as you get injured or you don't play, Newcastle fans think, oh, he doesn't even like it here. He flies home every day and all that rubbish. It's just not true. So that's the... It leaves you open to criticism.
Yeah.
And that was the difficult thing.
You're loving Liam.
Well, I know. And if I had the same thing again, would I do it? I don't know. I mean, I should say, absolutely I would. Absolutely I would. I want my mum and dad to come and watch me play football. What's wrong with, you know, what's wrong in that? So part of me thinks I probably would do the same again, but some of me thinks, you know what? You just leave yourself so open to people creating stories, saying this, saying that. It's just like, oh. And any helicopter. I mean, I'd be training. And then the helicopter would fly over and everyone would say, oh, no, he's still here. You know what I mean? So, you know, but if you're living in Newcastle, if you're just in your garden and you're a Newcastle fan, you see a helicopter, you think, oh, there's Michael Owen going home again. It's like, it's not. I'm here. But do you know what I mean? It just leaves you open to criticism.
I want to move quickly on to... Man United, so running out of time here, we could talk for hours. Man United, was there any doubt about going there just because of the Liverpool connection?
Yeah, I'd be lying if I said there wasn't something thinking, oh my word, this is not going to go down well. But when I left Newcastle, the first person that I contacted was Jamie Carragher and Steven Gerrard and said, do us a favour, go and speak to Brendan. Brendan Rodgers was the manager at the time. Go and speak to Brendan. I'm on a free. And he was signing David Ngog at the time. And he already had, I don't know who was there. Was it Torres or Suarez? Anyway, he already had a top centre forward, obviously. But I still wanted to go back home. I always wanted to go from Madrid back to Liverpool. that couldn't happen and then I got it inserted into my Newcastle contract that after one year I could go to Liverpool but then I did my knee in the World Cup so at every stage I wanted to go back to Liverpool and I don't make any apologies for that Liverpool's my club came through the ranks that's how I feel but obviously when Brendan Rodgers then says no like I can't retire. I've got to go somewhere. I'd done the abroad experience, wanted to stay in the Premier League. Everton wanted to sign me and so did Hull. Now, with all due respect, Hull were a team at the bottom of the league at the time. Everton, I just thought, I can't go to Everton. I mean, as much as I supported them when I was a young boy, Liverpool fans are going to hate me. So I'm having this summer thinking, what am I going to do? here, I've got Everton, do I go abroad again? I really don't want to go abroad again. And I was just waiting and waiting, hoping something would come. And then Nicky Buck phoned me, who I was playing with at Newcastle. He said, Mo, the gaffer's going to call you. And I was like... Who was the gaffer? You know, because we had lots of gaffers at Newcastle. He goes, Sir Alex. I'm like, what? He says, Man United want to sign you. Sir Alex is going to call you. Stay by your phone. So I'm like, oh, my word. My head started spinning thinking, right, well, now I've got Hull. I'm going to rule that out. I've got Everton or Man United. Well, Liverpool fans are not going to be happy either way.
Yeah.
But they were the options. I didn't have any other options. And then I thought to myself, do you know what? Liverpool didn't want me.
Yeah.
Like. I've given myself to them at every stage. I've even got it in my contract at Newcastle to go back. At every stage, I could have gone back, but the managers never wanted me back. So it's like, what do you want me to do? I can't do any more than... So at that point, it's like, right, well, do you know what? You've got to play at the top of your game. You've got to play for as good a team as you can. You can live at home. You know all the players anyway. I played for England with Wes Brown and Paul Scholes and the Neville brothers and all. I knew half the team and I just thought, yeah, I'm going to get a bit of stick. But you know what? When I came back to Anfield for Newcastle, I got a bit of stick. So I thought, well, do you know what? A few Liverpool fans are booing me anyway. I'm not exactly their favourite person for leaving in the first place. So Manchester United. Great club, great manager, great players, can win things, can live at home. Why am I having to say sorry here? Why are you sitting here thinking about everybody else and hurting other people's feelings? They don't care about me anymore. So I thought, you know what? It is a no-brainer. I've just got to do it.
And first game of the season against Birmingham City.
You told me that.
Against me. What did he do? He scored a goal. Where's my new...
Birmingham, that's right. Yeah,
yeah,
yeah. But it was obviously difficult.
First game of the season.
Yeah. It was obviously difficult for me because, you know, it wasn't just like what Liverpool fans were thinking. But obviously Manchester United fans, they, you know, I'd scored lots of goals against Manchester United over the years.
Yeah.
So they wouldn't have liked me back in the day. But obviously, so then you're thinking I've got to try, you know, I've got to win them over. I've got to play well. And obviously... I think it was the third game or the fourth game of the season. We played Manchester City and then I scored that goal in the 96th or 97th. And that was just, right, I'm away now. Fans are happy. And even now, Manchester United fans will always remember that goal. So that was good that I did something quite big early in the season, early in my career at Manchester United.
What a career.
Yeah.
You can't be proud of that.
No, exactly. We are out of time and I know you're a busy man. So thank you very much for coming on. It's been an absolute pleasure.
No, my pleasure. Good to see my old teammate again. Yeah, when he messaged me, I thought, yeah, I've got to do that. So, no, great to meet you. Thanks so much. Merci, monsieur.
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We had legend Michael Owen join us for this episode, a Ballon d'Or winner talking about all things football.
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Transcription
Ten minutes gone. He could be away here. Michael Owen. He's got goals with him. But it's still Owen. Oh, what a goal This 18-year-old has electrified the world.
Welcome to today's podcast where we are joined by our best guest today, Mr Michael Owen. Thank you for joining us.
It's very kind of you to say so.
Not often you get a balance of time at all.
Apt timing isn't it I guess with the award coming soon.
Yeah, but yeah, so we're going to basically talk about your career and some of the stories and everything else. But first thing I've got to ask, what was it like?
clean the cake very good very good we had a big
French influence at the time you know Gerard Houllier came in and signed a lot of players and understandably that you would know that you would be aware of we had some yeah some some great players that joined at the time we had a big clear out under Gerard Houllier right I think it was before Gregory came to Liverpool, but we had the likes of Sammy Hippie, Stefan Hentschel, Sander Wessler. We had like a group of 12, 14 players or something that signed in that summer. I can't quite remember. There were loads of players signed. And then after that, you know, gradually he just picked up one or two along the way. But yeah, it was good days, the great days. I really enjoyed those moments.
But I'm curious to know... Who was the first senior player, obviously you're breaking through at Liverpool at such a young age, who was the first senior player who looked after you on that team? Because that team was full of legends.
It was. I think Jamie Redknapp was a real good friend of mine, a real kind guy. Lived on this side of the water, so spent a bit of time with him. He probably had that caring influence, I'd say, on me. I obviously got into the team when the likes of Steve McManam and Robbie Fowler were around, but Robbie was a centre forward and I was a centre forward and we were very similar. And if I was 25 now and a young kid came into the group, you do want to help them, but also you don't want them to take your place. It's a very strange sort of thing. It is a team and if everybody is doing so well, then it should benefit everybody. Not to the expense of you type of attitude. It's very strange. I mean, I can't imagine a goalkeeper and a second goalkeeper would be the best of friends if they were really going at it. I mean, it's dog eat dog in many ways. So I'd say if I had to pick one, I mean, we had John Barnes was a great, a lovely influence on us. What a player he was. But I think Jamie Redknapp had that really nice, caring nature about him. And he always took me under his wing.
Stefan Inschel told us the same thing about you.
Yeah?
Yeah.
Jamie's a lovely guy. Really caring and a nice person. Yeah. And you know as well as I do, Gregory, different players in different positions have different attitudes. I mean, goalkeepers are a little bit different to everybody else. Yeah. Centre forwards. If you're a goal scorer, it is like you are just goals, You don't think about the team. You're just so... zoned in and if you're not like that you tell me if you know Alan Shearer and Wayne you know there's so many great strikers none of them are happy if they if they don't score yeah Ruud van Nistelrooy was all everybody used to joke about Ruud van Nistelrooy they if they win five nil but he didn't score he would have a mood until the next game that's the sort of what what people used to say well I was a little bit like that as well and I joke now you know with people on the television. that I work with, the Robbie Fowlers, the Jermaine Defoe, we're all the same. We're all a little bit different to your left back or your right back or your central midfield player, the team players. And you need all those elements in a team for it to work.
Yeah. Even at such a young age, because you're similar age to me, just growing up and seeing a young guy doing all that, you're just like, fucking... How can you deal with that pressure and stuff? I was still playing like... out in the streets and stuff yeah but yeah
Gordon doing it in such pressures are really interesting topic though because I don't believe in pressure I'd believe in it if you're not very good at something or you can't do something if you ask me now to go and play golf and you know you guys were watching me I'd be thinking you haven't seen me before I might go that way it might go they might go that way it might go it couldn't go any way yeah But when you're good at something, when you can do something, I don't think there's any footballer that goes to sleep the night before thinking, oh, no, I'm playing football tomorrow. I'm so nervous that this could go wrong. I just don't think it. Does a pilot, ultimate responsibility. He's got 500 people behind him. It's his or her job to make you all safe. Do you think that they're like, oh, no, this pressure on me. Of course they don't. They're trained. They know it. They do it all the time. Do you think a brain surgeon is going to sleep the night before thinking, can't have a glass of red wine because I'm about to save a child's life? These are the like, you know, we're talking there's so much more pressure than playing football. You know, and I don't believe that these people go to sleep thinking, oh, I can't do my job till I'm so nervous about saving it. No, they focus. They're just, they've done it before. They're expert in it and, you know, they're going to give it, you know, their best attempt. and if it doesn't work, but they can live with it. They're just very, very good at what they do. I just don't think when you do something very well, I just don't think pressure... I never, ever thought, oh, no, the whole of Liverpool are expecting me to score, the whole of England are hoping that I'm going to score. I love that, the fact that people thought that of me, but I didn't shrink. I didn't think, oh, no, I'm so nervous and this pressure is becoming overwhelming. I just don't believe it. Pressure is something when you're not sure you can do it, in my eyes.
But you have this expectation on your shoulder for Liverpool, for your country.
Of course. So it's massive. It's an expectation. It is a pressure. Of course it is. When I look back now and think, oh, wow, yeah, actually you were carrying expectations. So of course it is a prep, but when you're doing it, and I give other examples of different jobs, whether you're a pilot, whether you're a brain surgeon, whatever you do, whether you're a golfer. I don't think that people that do the job consistently, I don't think that they, I think if they feel the pressure to, I don't think you'd be able to do the job. I just don't think, I just think if you're very, very capable of doing something, then I don't think you feel pressure. I don't think, anyway, that's my experience.
You clearly didn't.
No, I don't, no.
Witches.
But I do feel pressure. Yeah. I'm not immune as a person to not feel pressure. as I say if we play golf now I'd be like a bit nervous if you put 100 people watching me play I'd be oh my word I'd start thinking I'd start you know
I would be feeling big pressure but put a million people watching me play football bring it on it's like that's that's the easy bit yeah that's what I do that's what Brian Clough used to always say you can't really do anything if you're feeling pressure you can't well you need to relax and yeah do what you're good at so yeah absolutely and
that doesn't just come. I suppose some people's character is a certain way, but that is practice. That is repetition over years and years and years and years and years of going through on goalkeepers and thinking, right, what gives me the best chance? I always used to watch Ronaldo. He used to run through and step over, step over, step over and go past a goalkeeper, virtually always. So I used to try it and I tried it and tried it and tried it. I just didn't feel it. Just didn't feel it.
It's interesting because he said, Many years of work, you never said something about the talent.
Yeah.
You have the talent, but the talent doesn't beat, you know, how much you work.
Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
And I remember you in the training ground hitting the ball, you know, and to perform.
Do you know what the one thing that hindered my finishing in many ways, it helped in so many ways, is when I was very young, I was so much faster than everybody else when I was 10 or 12. So every single time I played in a... tee in a game, I would score five, six, seven, eight goals. But I would have 20 chances. The ball would chip out over the top. So I always had so much time. So I always put it on my right foot, because I wanted to score. And then I would try going around the goalkeeper, and I'd try chipping, and I'd try sliding, and I'd try all these different finishes. And of course, that's where you develop these. So if you put a goal in front of me now, drop a ball, I would just know what type of finish. based on where I am, how the ball is sitting, where the goalkeeper and all these things. It just becomes natural and instinctive. But because I was always faster than everybody as a young boy, I never used to take it on my left foot. So then I almost had to learn on the job in the first team because now all of a sudden I have a great defender on my right-hand side and the goal is there. I've got to take the ball away from him and he was just as fast. So then I'd have to hit it with my left foot. So I was learning on the job. when I was in the first team.
Yeah.
I'd always been so, so I'd perfected my skill in terms of when I broke free, I knew exactly what to do, but then... The challenging part came when I was under pressure with bigger, stronger, faster men. And then I had to sort of, as I say, learn on the job, which was quite an interesting thing for me. And the one thing I do regret was when I was younger, not being good enough, not practicing my left foot enough. I was good enough to strike the ball and hit it, but I wasn't good enough with my left foot, which was one regret I had.
Yeah. I'm just curious when you're saying you know you were young you were scoring all those goals and everything else what was the step up like playing against obviously premiership guys experienced strong was that obviously it wasn't a struggle for you but there must be some massive difference I know I don't know I don't it
didn't really it didn't really stop me or affect me of course it gets better, the standard gets better. And I must admit, when I'm jogging onto the pitch to make my debut in the first team, and then you score a goal on your debut, the feeling of relief, thinking all that, all that expectation and belief that you've had for so long, I don't care what you've done, and I had a really good junior youth career, there's nothing quite like now playing in the seeing it against men and thinking, can I? do this.
Yeah.
You still have question marks. Can I translate all this potential? And obviously I scored within five, 10 minutes of my debut.
Yeah.
So then all of that belief and confidence just comes flooding through thinking, yeah, 17 years of practice, of work, of belief, of it is actually, it is going to happen. Yeah. I am good enough, you know, but you can't help but have that question. But no, I didn't, I didn't really. ever hit a level where I thought, oh no, this is now too difficult. It all pretty much went smoothly. The only time I've ever looked at somebody and thought, oh no, oh no, was I think when Thierry Henry came into the league. And I thought, when I saw him, I thought... Because with other strikers...
Different profile.
Exactly. Just too good at everything. We had great strikers, Van Nistelrooy and Shearer and Rooney. There's loads and loads of great strikers over the years. But I never thought intimidate. I never thought, oh my word, he is so much better than me. I always thought I could hold my own against anybody. I could win the golden boot and etc. But when I saw Thierry Henry, I thought, that's the last golden boot I'm ever going to win. I just didn't, I couldn't see how... He is just so much, he was another level. That's true. Yeah, and I just thought, and that was the only time really that I've sat back. And when I was growing up, when I was watching R9 on the television, and I thought, you know, I was playing for England, under 15s, under 16s, breaking every record. I was the new, you know, everybody knew I was going to make it. And I thought I was, and I was playing all these, I played Brazil and I played Germany. I played all these countries at international level and in my age group. And I was, you know, one of the best players. But when I watched the television, I thought, oh my word, if that's the level you need, this is going to be difficult to be a professional footballer. Because he was just... So they're the two players that made me sit back and think, oh, I don't like this. I don't like this.
It's not a bad two to be up against. Who was the toughest defender you came up against when you went, I hate playing against that guy?
Ah, it's amazing because I've just literally travelled back from the Far East. I got home last night and we were playing in an old Legends game and I was playing against Yap Stam. Ah. Now, he wasn't bad. He was fast and strong and read the game and he was very, very good.
Aggressive.
Oh, very aggressive. I always struggled. Do you know who I didn't like playing against? Was it Marcel Desailly? Oh. When he came to Chelsea. The problem is... You don't like playing against the good teams in many ways because you hardly get any chances anyway.
Yeah.
And then when you do, if you're playing against a great centre-half, which invariably you do, like playing against Arsenal, you know, against the Invincibles, they'd have 70% of the ball. So as soon as you get it, like for one minute, and then Sol Campbell's behind you, it's like, you know, John Terry, Rio Ferdinand. I mean, they were all so... poor y'all. I hated playing against Puyol at Barcelona because again, they'd have 80% of the possession. Were you in the team when we went to Barcelona? We drew 0-0. I don't think I touched the ball once.
Yeah.
And then we beat them 1-0 at Anfield and we went on to win the UEFA Cup, which was incredible. I always look back fondly at those years because football, it will always change. Life will always change in every single way and there's nothing bad about that. But the profile of players around then was what I believe football really was. You know, like some of the great players around. Wow. And now, obviously, we're in an era now where it's so scientific, so, you know, running-based, athletic. And you would never have got in the team just being a runner back in the day. But likewise, some of the great players back in our days, you know, well, those players play now. You know, the Cantona's, the Leticia's, the people that don't do the hard yards. Yeah. But had genius qualities. Bergkamp and Zollers and all those great players. They didn't...
Schillingham.
Yeah, but they wouldn't have the running stats nowadays. And I just... They were the people that you pay to go and watch. They were the genius, class players. France had loads of them. The Djorkaevs and the Dugarys around that time. Yeah, that was the generation that I thought football was for me. I might be biased. We might be biased because it was our generation. There were some unbelievable players.
Aye. Anyway, I want to talk to you about that Argentina goal in France 98. Was that the moment, because obviously you were playing for Liverpool, you were doing really well, but was that the moment where things just went up to another level in terms of fame and getting hassled in the street and everything else?
Yeah, absolutely. I was waiting to hear how you finished the question then, because certainly not in terms of performance. And I mean, that was just as... not a standard but that's what I did around that time it wasn't a goal that you think oh my word Michael Owen scored I just won the golden boot in my first year in the Premier League so I was scoring plenty of goals and scoring goals for England so that was the type of thing I could do back then I couldn't have done it when I was 27 or 28 I physically couldn't have done that but obviously at that time I could do it but yeah that changed my life off the pitch I mean yeah yeah the in. everything about it, you know, around the world. I mean, obviously in the Premier League, the league was a big league in 98, but that opened it up to people knowing you all around the world.
Is there any nerves at the World Cup? I know you said you'd never have a ball, but even going to the World Cup?
Yeah, you're on edge, but you're wanting to do it. You can't wait to get at them, to get on that pitch. and go and do your stuff so it's more of an anticipation a few nerves yeah yeah because you know how big the game is um but at the time and that was to my advantage i think being young you have no scars yeah you've hardly had any you know failures in your life um you You believe you're Superman.
Yeah.
And, you know, and that's the... that's the beauty of being young. Of course, being older, you have the experience, but also a little bit of fear creeps in and a little bit of, you know, you look at who you're playing against and say, I didn't care. I didn't even, you know. So I think being young was a huge advantage, if anything. People look at you and say, 18, how did you do that? Surely you're a disadvantage. I think it's an advantage. If you've got the capability and the mindset to do it, I think it just, you're so free and so... carefree yeah you don't you you just think as i say you think you're superman that's a very unique thing to have though i think if someone threw me into a world cup at 18 i would shit the bed and literally but you wouldn't if you were if i was that good probably exactly exactly if someone if someone asked you to interview the most famous person in the world now i don't think you would shit the bed i think you know because you've done it and you're capable of doing it and you can hold the conversation you wouldn't yeah whereas a lot of people would because they can't do that so It just depends what you're trained at, what you're talented at. So if you can do it, you're not nervous about doing it. It goes back to what we said before about the pressure of doing it. People only think that I should have been nervous and they can't believe that I could have done it because they aren't a talented footballer themselves, but they're talented in another way. And I sort of marvel at other people thinking, how do you do that under so much pressure? That's just incredible. But it's only the same thing in a different life.
So I'm curious to know how life changed for you after that World Cup. Did you have to move away to a... quieter area? Did you have to have security people kicking around with you at that point? Because surely fans and everything would have been pissed at you. Yeah. You were the poster boy of football, really.
Yeah. I mean, I guess having a steady, strong family around you and growing up with that supportive family helps with your character. I always think, when I get asked this question, I always try, or I don't try, I always flip it on its head and say, people think... when somebody becomes famous or has a bit of success, people always think, how did it change you? But I would turn it around and say, it changes other people, their attitude towards you more than the other way around in many cases. Friends, family members, they all of a sudden, I came back from the World Cup, I hadn't scored a goal and they're like, oh my God, you're like the world. No, I'm... I'm your brother.
Yeah.
I'm your son. I'm your cousin. I'm your best friend. Always have been, always will be. I'm not a different person. I've just done something pretty cool. Yeah. But that's all it is. It's everybody's reaction to you that changes. Yeah. It's not necessary. I didn't, having scored a goal, I don't come back now thinking I'm six foot tall and I can talk down to people and I can, you know, do you know what I mean? I lose my manners all of a sudden.
Yeah.
What changes about me? yeah like what changed about i don't think anything um it's people's reaction and that some people are so you know oh wow that that's that's unbelievable what's just happened like and they they don't treat you like they not used to treat you just like talk to you like you i'm just still a normal person i mean it's not like i'm an alien that's just come i've just done my job and come home so but yes it did change um little things My routine changed a little bit. My mum, God love her, she... Like, fan mail, for example. We used to get sort of four big sacks, on average about four a day. So you would have like thousands and thousands and thousands of letters. But my mum obviously was very new to all this and I didn't really have a... I had an agent, but we were... But my mum was like, you can't ignore the fans. You know, you can't. Don't you be getting too big for your boots. You can't ignore the fans. So I'd be getting home at one o'clock from training and I'd be sitting. My mum all morning had been, you know, laying it all out, getting the envelopes, stamps, and, you know, all on the... So everything, I'd come home and the house was covered in letters. I'd be signing, signing. Right, this one, you've got to do this. And that one, you've got to do that. And this is an inquiry from a sponsor. And this is... And honestly... I'd be getting to bed at 10, 11 o'clock at night, having just signed and signed and signed. And after doing it for weeks and weeks and weeks, it was just like, this cannot continue. We can't live our life like this. If I spend one day that I'm not at home, the backlog, I'd be going into the early hours of the morning. So little things like that, that people don't even... But that's a massive change in my life. And that then affects the way I prepare for the next game, etc. So we had to bring in... My agent had to get more involved. We employed somebody to actually, on a full-time basis, sort out, you know, these are all inquiries for sponsors. These are all charity inquiries. These are all autographs. Now, Michael can't physically sign all the autographs at thousands and thousands every day. Yeah. So we created sort of a, you know, a bit of a photo, you know, with a printed signature on with, you know, with a thank you for your blowout. Anyway, so... We had to change different bits, but little things like that changed. You know, going in and getting recognised and, you know, I can't even play golf with my dad anymore without five, six, seven, eight paparazzi or rustling in the bush, taking pictures of you on every hole. And it's just like, oh, come on. Now that fades over a little bit of time, which is cool. But it was definitely a change, especially only being 18. You know, you couldn't go to the newsagents without people taking photos, being all over the papers, Michael Owen.
came out and he bought oh wow he bought a dairy milk bar of chocolate like in the newspaper why are you following me you know it's just anyway that was just the life at the time but uh it was it was definitely it definitely changed yeah no and uh i was i've just always curious to hear how you would have to adapt to things like doing that family or anything that must be yeah little things that people probably don't
even realize actually um You know, people obviously assume that you go to training, you eat the right food, you have a sleep, you do this, you do that, you live like a professional. But people don't sort of, you know, allow for things like fan mail, things like sponsorships. you know, filming adverts. God, after the World Cup, I was doing Walker's Crisps. I was doing Umbro Boots. I was doing a calendar shoot. I was doing, I think it was Purcell. I was doing, I had a watch company. I had a Jaguar car deal. I had dozens and dozens and dozens of different sponsorships that all want their two, three, four days a year. When you... bring it all together and all your training and all your traveling and all your games and all your this and that and the other you get a spare day and well you don't get a spare day with all this do you have this conversation with the boss when you're you're no try to hide it from the boss in a way because if he knew if i was playing on a saturday and he knew i was doing a five hour photo shoot or advert on a thursday he probably wouldn't have been happy So I would never do on a Friday, you know, the day before a game. we didn't have enough days in the week to manage the expectation or manage that you know what was being thrown upon me at the time so um because the boss was very much the case of you know relaxing family you know don't be doing this don't be you know but obviously my agent is like no no we need to do this we need to do this so it was it was quite difficult so um so no i didn't I didn't mention it too much, just kept it quiet, secret.
What move on to the Ballon d'Or, winning that in 2001? Yeah. Yeah, 2001 Ballon d'Or. When did you start to get a feeling you were in with a chance of being up there? That is just something that kids dream of, that stuff.
Well, I'm going to tell you, Gregory will probably fall off his chair, but... I didn't know what the Ballon d'Or was. And I knew that there was an award. I knew there was an award to vote for and to crown the best player in the world that year. I knew there was one out there, but I didn't know what it was called. Bear in mind, Gregory, no English player used to win it. We had Kevin Keegan, Sir Stanley Matthews, Sir Bobby Charlton. Sadly, all three of them have passed away, but we hadn't. had an English player since 1979, I think. Was it Keegan, 79?
Yeah.
He won it twice. Was it 78 and 79? It might be. Anyway, it just wasn't in our newspapers and social media wasn't there at the time. So we just didn't promote it because nobody ever won it. And it was always a Spanish player or a French player or Portuguese or whoever it was. And so I had never been told about it. And I remember playing Roma in the UEFA Cup and Phil Thompson, we were never allowed our phones, were we? Like phone ban all the time. Gerard Houllier hated us on phones. Anyway, Phil Thompson went like this, literally 45 minutes before kickoff. I'm like, what's he want? He's already picked the team. He can't sort of change the team now. He said, I've got the boss on the phone because Gerard had just had the heart problem. So he was lying in hospital, but he wanted to tell me. So he said, get out into the corridor. The boss wants to speak to you. And I thought, is he going to give me a team talk? Or what's happening here? And he said, he said, Michael, I want to tell you before you play. I want to give you a boost. You mustn't tell anybody. This is a secret for the next two weeks. It's not been announced yet, but you've won the Ballon d'Or. And I said, boss, what's that? He said, it's the Ballon d'Or. It's the... it's the vote for the best player in the block. And he started explaining it. I was like, oh my word, that's unbelievable. And I was thrilled. Don't get me wrong, I was so happy. But when he first said it to me, I was like, don't know what that is. And so, yeah, so I can't say that leading up to it, I was thinking anything other than just, you know, playing for Liverpool and whatever, you know, there was no campaign to get the votes in or... Like now, you know, everybody's, Yamal is texting and saying, oh, I deserve to win it because of this. And then Bafe saying I should win it because of this. You know, there was no campaign. It was just, I only just found out then.
When I knew he won the Ballon d'Or, it was amazing.
Yeah.
He didn't realize.
No, and the crazy thing is, on the continent back in the day, when I went to Real Madrid, it's the only thing they were saying, Michael, I win the Ballon d'Or. Every time they say my name, it follows with Ballon d'Or. It's such a... It's such a thing. And it's such a thing, don't get me wrong, in the UK now. Now people know about it. And obviously, we've got maybe a chance this year with the likes of Harry Kane. But now everybody knows about it. And social media does a great job as well. But at the time...
Until that phone call, I didn't know what it was.
Who were you up against for that year?
Second was Raul. Oliver Kahn was up there. But of course, Henri's and Zidane's were in the... It was not a World Cup year. It was 2001, so it was obviously an in-between year. We had won all those. We had won five trophies in one year. England had had a really good season, probably highlighted by the Germany 5-1. So yeah, it was obviously a really good generation. I mean all the great French players at the time that had just won the World Cup in 98. And then you had some, you know, R9 was around and you had your Del Pierros and your Totties and Shevchenkos and Batastutas, all those great players at the the time so yeah it was a it was a great era of football in fact I came fourth in it in 1998 and I didn't even know. But when I looked at the lists after I'd won it, I thought, oh my word, I came fourth in 98. But I think that when you look at the players, and I've looked at all the lists of over the generations, when you look at the players that were in the top 20, 98, 99, oh my word, you've never seen anything like it. You've never seen anything like it. It's unbelievable, the players around them. Gerard Houllier was... so proud. Like, I couldn't believe, I was thinking, he was, he was almost like emotional that one of his players had won the Ballon. It, and obviously it's, you know, it's a French award back in the day, you know, and all the rest of it. And I guess that he's been part of that federation and obviously part of French football for so many years. It meant so much to him and his family and the way his family came in to, to see my family, you know, after the, the, after I had won it at Anfield in the players lounge and the emotion from him and I couldn't I couldn't believe it but it's when Gregory says things like that now it it sort of resonates yeah and to this day I mean it actually means more to me every day that goes past yeah you know Greg's right when I when I won when I won it there's that much in your career you know three days I lifted up the trophy at Anfield but I'm about to play Derby County in the league you know I'm like got to score got to win forget that trophy I'll look at that after and then you get off the you know and you take it home and you put it in your cabinet but then two days later you're playing against somebody else and football is like that it's just every other day you know and if I don't score the next week it's like oh Michael Owen how did he win the Ballon d'Or so you're constantly your mind is the next thing so it's better for me nowadays I'm not competing against anybody. I can look at that trophy. I can look back at the players I played with, the great times, the goals we scored, the trophies we won, and I can be really proud of it. So to this day, it means more to me today than it has in any point of my life, really. I just appreciate it more and more and more.
And where does that sit? In the house, up in the wall somewhere?
You've got to say it's secret.
Ah, right there, feeling off. I will tell you. Cut up the house. I had a... No, I had a cabinet made 20 years ago and all my trophies and medals are all in that cabinet. It's right in the middle. It's at the top in the middle and it's on a little plinth that just slowly spins around all day. There's nothing else that spins, just that one.
I am curious, there is like a ball ballon d'or or other ex-ballon d'or? Do you have any chat with them before the vote?
No, but you get invited every year to go.
The ceremony?
Yes. So I'm going to go this year. I've been before. I presented Cristiano Ronaldo at the Bernabeu with it. And I've been to one in Paris as well on the Eiffel Tower. But this year it's in London. So I'm going to go to it this year as well.
Why not? D-mate out.
Exactly. I've not been to many, but I'll go to this one.
I want to talk a bit about leaving Liverpool and going to Real Madrid. How did that come about? Were you just wanting to challenge yourself abroad, or was there Liverpool needed money?
I don't think either. I mean, it transpired that, yeah, like challenging yourself to go abroad, that's one of the sort of the reasons in your head. But at the time, I never, ever thought I would live. Liverpool. Me, Jamie Carragher, Steven Gerrard came through the ranks. It was just, this is our club. But Gerrard, Julien, left and Rafa Benitez had came in and we were on pre-season tour getting to know the new manager and my phone went we had finished a train we'd finished a training session Jamie Carragher was lying on that bed and I was on the bed over here and my agent phoned me and he used to phone me every two or three days I didn't think it was anything you know and I he said can you speak and I was like well Cara's my best mate he you know he's yeah yeah yeah I'm free yeah in between training sessions. And he said, there's a big interest in you from Real Madrid. They want to sign you. I was like, oh, my word, you're joking. And he said, yeah. I said, right, OK. And, you know, and what's, you know, go on, explain. And, well, blah, And he just started. So I spoke to the president. And he, you know, this and that and the other. So I said, fine, OK, put the phone down. And Cara obviously had heard the conversation. He just looked at me and went, don't.
Nope.
Don't do it. And I went, why not? He says, mate, they've got Ronaldo, they've got Raul, they've got Morientes, they're buying players all the time. He says, you're like the star here. You play every week. Fans love you and this and that and the other. You're not going to break in ahead of R9 and Raul. Raul's their golden child and R9 is the best player in the world. I just don't think you should. But him saying that, that's red rag to a bull for me. That's like, you don't think I can be better than them type of attitude. That's just my, what? I will show you. Anyway, for the next week, 10 days maybe, I couldn't get it out of my head. I was thinking, no, don't do it. Cara's right. Everything's great here. Everything's perfect. You live at home, Liverpool. great club, the fans love you and all the rest of it. And then the next day I'd wake up and think, do you know what? If you say no to that, you will regret it. This will be your only chance to have a move, just a move and to see something different in your life, to live in a different country, to speak another language, different food, different weather, that white kit, that stadium, new league, the players. It's the Galactico era. I mean, you had Zidane and Raul and Ronaldo and Roberto Carlos and Figo and Beckham. I mean, it was an unbelievable era. And I thought, you can always come back. You can always come back, but you'll never get a chance to go again. And then the next day I'd be thinking, no, no, no, don't do it. Don't be stupid. And it was just two every day. And it was getting me down a little bit. Obviously, it's a lovely problem to have, but it really wasn't. I wish the problem wasn't there.
Yeah.
in many ways at the time. Eventually, I just, I met Rafa Benitez because the club needed a decision and I met Rafa Benitez and I just said to him, I just feel as if I need to go and give it a try. But obviously, I almost want to shake your hand and say, can I come back in one year or two years?
Yeah.
So that's what we did. I sort of shook the hand of Rick Parry, who was our chief exec at the time, and said, you know, I know we can't put it into a contract maybe, but, you know. I don't want to leave. I want to come back. So we all agreed that that would be the case. I'd go and have a crack at it. So I cried all the way to the airport. I didn't want to leave Liverpool, but I did want to go and experience something. It was my decision and my decision only. I wasn't forced out. I wasn't held to ransom by it. It was all perfectly amicable. But I just thought, I've just got to try it. And that was the story, really. We'll all have times in our lives, you know.
Was your family there?
Yeah, but only my wife. And I had a one-year-old daughter as well at the time. So it was quite difficult. It was difficult for them, really difficult for them, because we lived in a hotel for the first five months and I was away all the time and my wife, different, no friends. It was quite difficult for her. But I've no, you know, people always ask me. do you regret going to a like leaving liverpool going to real madrid i'm like everybody has these moments in their life where they can go to that job or that job or marry this person or do this or buy that car or whatever we all have decisions all the time you know and mine was just a career decision that i wasn't changing jobs yeah in terms of you know i was still playing football just a different team happens all the time you know no it's like it was real madrid you've you've You've got to do it. Even, you know, the likes of Jamie Carrey that wanted me or saying don't do it, you know, they can accept that. Come on. It's real.
Exactly.
The quality of the players, Michael. Could you speak about this? Because when you play with these unbelievable players.
Yeah.
But the quality, you know, in training, the quality in games, the technique and everything.
Yeah.
It must be so.
Oh, it was an incredible generation. And the difficult thing was Barcelona had a great generation as well at the time with Etu and Ronaldinho and all their great midfield players. So it was just an... Unbelievable time. It was when Spanish football was the best. Those two teams were so much better than everyone else, I think, around that generation. In fact, both teams continued to go and dominate Europe after that. But the players themselves, yeah. I mean, the one player that stands out for me was Zidane. He was probably in the peak of his career. I mean, the speed, the strength, the technique, just a genius. It was just pure, just beautiful to watch him. He was just so elegant. If a ball comes to me and I want to go that way and it's bouncing up here, I think, right, chest it down and take it with my right foot, all in one nice movement. Just before we'd be coming, he would be looking and he would just sort of bump. In one movement, he would be running at top speed. but also have chested it down into everything that we normal people could do in two or three touches. He was just doing it in one and just natural and graceful, just amazing. To either foot, you know, manipulating the ball. I mean, I was good with a right foot, I could cruif turn or chop or this or that, but on my left, he could do everything with both feet. Just genius.
What do you see now with nationality? You know, we had a few things, you know, from the journalist.
Yeah.
He's still playing with the boys,
you know. He's just got the touch. He's like a magician. Yeah. There's not many people that have just got that. You know, Messi would have it. Zidane would have it. There's not many that just have got that. The rest of us will have to try and work on it. I mean, R9 was, like, in my opinion, the greatest of all time, in my opinion. But because he only for a short period of time, because then he got injured and a little bit like my career, but to the lesser extent. But, you know, I was very good, but then got injured and then I was just OK. But Ronaldo was still a great player, but he wasn't. So obviously I was privileged to play alongside him, but he wasn't the player of when he was 20. So he was great. And you could see in bits that he was just a genius as well. But of course, his physical, his knee was just... always preventing him from being like he was as a young player. But Figue, I tell you who I loved playing with was Guti. Guti was a dream for someone like me because every time he just wanted to play the killer pass. Zidane wouldn't want to give the ball away. So unless the ball was on, he would keep it and pass. But Guti was like, as soon as he got it, head up. Where's Michael Owen? Where's Ronaldo? Over the top. He just loved these passes, risky passes all the time. So I loved playing with Guti. It was great times. It was great fun. And, you know, I really enjoyed it. As I say, my family, they struggled a little bit and I always wanted to come back to the Premier League. You know, I'm a homeboy, really. I like being around my family and whatever, and the comforts of home. But I had such a good experience. I loved it.
Yeah. Nice. Ticked that box.
Yeah.
And then from there, over to Newcastle. Is it true? I don't know if this is bollocks or not, but you used to fly in a helicopter to training for Newcastle.
It's half true. Like anything in the newspapers, they always get like 10% right or 20% right. No, I'd obviously been away from home for a year and I wanted... Newcastle to work. First of all, I nearly signed for Liverpool, but Newcastle doubled the bid and Madrid would only send me to Newcastle, et cetera, et cetera. Anyway, long story short, I signed for Newcastle, but Newcastle's three and a half hours. One of the whole reasons for coming back to Newcastle was to be closer to home. I wanted my mum and dad to come and see me. I one of my wife, you know, my wife lived up with me with my daughter. We had our second child, son, while we were there. But I wanted to be able to, if we get Wednesday off, I wanted to have the flexibility of being able to go home after training on Tuesday, spend Tuesday afternoon at home. be here at Manor House Stables, big passion of mine, business that was growing. Then I'd be home all day Wednesday and then I could fly up at sort of eight o'clock, land at nine o'clock. We didn't have to be in till 10 o'clock. So it was brilliant. Match days, my mum and dad could fly up and watch me. I didn't want, you know, ageing parents driving up three and a half hours or every single, you know, we sometimes played twice a week.
Yeah.
So I just thought, and it... It's one of those things. In hindsight, you think, I shouldn't have done it because of what people say, what people think. But then part of me thinks, you know what, I don't care what people say and think. I only did it for mainly my family so we could see each other more. My mum and dad and brothers and sisters could come up and watch me. It was quite hard in Madrid not seeing my family for a whole year. To say that I used to go in and out of training every day is rubbish. I mean, it would basically be, if we had one game on a Saturday, let's say, one game on a Saturday every week, we'd have Sunday off and we'd have Wednesday off. So after the game on Saturday, we would fly home and I'd spend all of Sunday home and fly back up Monday. I'd spend Monday and Tuesday there, fly back Tuesday afternoon, spend Wednesday at home and then fly up Thursday morning, spend Thursday, Friday, Saturday up there. And I had a house there.
Yeah.
bought a house there, lived there for four years. You know, so, and not always would we have only one game in a day, in which case I'd not fly home. But it was just a really handy way of seeing my family a lot more. But obviously, from my image point of view, it didn't help. Because as soon as you get injured or you don't play, Newcastle fans think, oh, he doesn't even like it here. He flies home every day and all that rubbish. It's just not true. So that's the... It leaves you open to criticism.
Yeah.
And that was the difficult thing.
You're loving Liam.
Well, I know. And if I had the same thing again, would I do it? I don't know. I mean, I should say, absolutely I would. Absolutely I would. I want my mum and dad to come and watch me play football. What's wrong with, you know, what's wrong in that? So part of me thinks I probably would do the same again, but some of me thinks, you know what? You just leave yourself so open to people creating stories, saying this, saying that. It's just like, oh. And any helicopter. I mean, I'd be training. And then the helicopter would fly over and everyone would say, oh, no, he's still here. You know what I mean? So, you know, but if you're living in Newcastle, if you're just in your garden and you're a Newcastle fan, you see a helicopter, you think, oh, there's Michael Owen going home again. It's like, it's not. I'm here. But do you know what I mean? It just leaves you open to criticism.
I want to move quickly on to... Man United, so running out of time here, we could talk for hours. Man United, was there any doubt about going there just because of the Liverpool connection?
Yeah, I'd be lying if I said there wasn't something thinking, oh my word, this is not going to go down well. But when I left Newcastle, the first person that I contacted was Jamie Carragher and Steven Gerrard and said, do us a favour, go and speak to Brendan. Brendan Rodgers was the manager at the time. Go and speak to Brendan. I'm on a free. And he was signing David Ngog at the time. And he already had, I don't know who was there. Was it Torres or Suarez? Anyway, he already had a top centre forward, obviously. But I still wanted to go back home. I always wanted to go from Madrid back to Liverpool. that couldn't happen and then I got it inserted into my Newcastle contract that after one year I could go to Liverpool but then I did my knee in the World Cup so at every stage I wanted to go back to Liverpool and I don't make any apologies for that Liverpool's my club came through the ranks that's how I feel but obviously when Brendan Rodgers then says no like I can't retire. I've got to go somewhere. I'd done the abroad experience, wanted to stay in the Premier League. Everton wanted to sign me and so did Hull. Now, with all due respect, Hull were a team at the bottom of the league at the time. Everton, I just thought, I can't go to Everton. I mean, as much as I supported them when I was a young boy, Liverpool fans are going to hate me. So I'm having this summer thinking, what am I going to do? here, I've got Everton, do I go abroad again? I really don't want to go abroad again. And I was just waiting and waiting, hoping something would come. And then Nicky Buck phoned me, who I was playing with at Newcastle. He said, Mo, the gaffer's going to call you. And I was like... Who was the gaffer? You know, because we had lots of gaffers at Newcastle. He goes, Sir Alex. I'm like, what? He says, Man United want to sign you. Sir Alex is going to call you. Stay by your phone. So I'm like, oh, my word. My head started spinning thinking, right, well, now I've got Hull. I'm going to rule that out. I've got Everton or Man United. Well, Liverpool fans are not going to be happy either way.
Yeah.
But they were the options. I didn't have any other options. And then I thought to myself, do you know what? Liverpool didn't want me.
Yeah.
Like. I've given myself to them at every stage. I've even got it in my contract at Newcastle to go back. At every stage, I could have gone back, but the managers never wanted me back. So it's like, what do you want me to do? I can't do any more than... So at that point, it's like, right, well, do you know what? You've got to play at the top of your game. You've got to play for as good a team as you can. You can live at home. You know all the players anyway. I played for England with Wes Brown and Paul Scholes and the Neville brothers and all. I knew half the team and I just thought, yeah, I'm going to get a bit of stick. But you know what? When I came back to Anfield for Newcastle, I got a bit of stick. So I thought, well, do you know what? A few Liverpool fans are booing me anyway. I'm not exactly their favourite person for leaving in the first place. So Manchester United. Great club, great manager, great players, can win things, can live at home. Why am I having to say sorry here? Why are you sitting here thinking about everybody else and hurting other people's feelings? They don't care about me anymore. So I thought, you know what? It is a no-brainer. I've just got to do it.
And first game of the season against Birmingham City.
You told me that.
Against me. What did he do? He scored a goal. Where's my new...
Birmingham, that's right. Yeah,
yeah,
yeah. But it was obviously difficult.
First game of the season.
Yeah. It was obviously difficult for me because, you know, it wasn't just like what Liverpool fans were thinking. But obviously Manchester United fans, they, you know, I'd scored lots of goals against Manchester United over the years.
Yeah.
So they wouldn't have liked me back in the day. But obviously, so then you're thinking I've got to try, you know, I've got to win them over. I've got to play well. And obviously... I think it was the third game or the fourth game of the season. We played Manchester City and then I scored that goal in the 96th or 97th. And that was just, right, I'm away now. Fans are happy. And even now, Manchester United fans will always remember that goal. So that was good that I did something quite big early in the season, early in my career at Manchester United.
What a career.
Yeah.
You can't be proud of that.
No, exactly. We are out of time and I know you're a busy man. So thank you very much for coming on. It's been an absolute pleasure.
No, my pleasure. Good to see my old teammate again. Yeah, when he messaged me, I thought, yeah, I've got to do that. So, no, great to meet you. Thanks so much. Merci, monsieur.
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We had legend Michael Owen join us for this episode, a Ballon d'Or winner talking about all things football.
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Transcription
Ten minutes gone. He could be away here. Michael Owen. He's got goals with him. But it's still Owen. Oh, what a goal This 18-year-old has electrified the world.
Welcome to today's podcast where we are joined by our best guest today, Mr Michael Owen. Thank you for joining us.
It's very kind of you to say so.
Not often you get a balance of time at all.
Apt timing isn't it I guess with the award coming soon.
Yeah, but yeah, so we're going to basically talk about your career and some of the stories and everything else. But first thing I've got to ask, what was it like?
clean the cake very good very good we had a big
French influence at the time you know Gerard Houllier came in and signed a lot of players and understandably that you would know that you would be aware of we had some yeah some some great players that joined at the time we had a big clear out under Gerard Houllier right I think it was before Gregory came to Liverpool, but we had the likes of Sammy Hippie, Stefan Hentschel, Sander Wessler. We had like a group of 12, 14 players or something that signed in that summer. I can't quite remember. There were loads of players signed. And then after that, you know, gradually he just picked up one or two along the way. But yeah, it was good days, the great days. I really enjoyed those moments.
But I'm curious to know... Who was the first senior player, obviously you're breaking through at Liverpool at such a young age, who was the first senior player who looked after you on that team? Because that team was full of legends.
It was. I think Jamie Redknapp was a real good friend of mine, a real kind guy. Lived on this side of the water, so spent a bit of time with him. He probably had that caring influence, I'd say, on me. I obviously got into the team when the likes of Steve McManam and Robbie Fowler were around, but Robbie was a centre forward and I was a centre forward and we were very similar. And if I was 25 now and a young kid came into the group, you do want to help them, but also you don't want them to take your place. It's a very strange sort of thing. It is a team and if everybody is doing so well, then it should benefit everybody. Not to the expense of you type of attitude. It's very strange. I mean, I can't imagine a goalkeeper and a second goalkeeper would be the best of friends if they were really going at it. I mean, it's dog eat dog in many ways. So I'd say if I had to pick one, I mean, we had John Barnes was a great, a lovely influence on us. What a player he was. But I think Jamie Redknapp had that really nice, caring nature about him. And he always took me under his wing.
Stefan Inschel told us the same thing about you.
Yeah?
Yeah.
Jamie's a lovely guy. Really caring and a nice person. Yeah. And you know as well as I do, Gregory, different players in different positions have different attitudes. I mean, goalkeepers are a little bit different to everybody else. Yeah. Centre forwards. If you're a goal scorer, it is like you are just goals, You don't think about the team. You're just so... zoned in and if you're not like that you tell me if you know Alan Shearer and Wayne you know there's so many great strikers none of them are happy if they if they don't score yeah Ruud van Nistelrooy was all everybody used to joke about Ruud van Nistelrooy they if they win five nil but he didn't score he would have a mood until the next game that's the sort of what what people used to say well I was a little bit like that as well and I joke now you know with people on the television. that I work with, the Robbie Fowlers, the Jermaine Defoe, we're all the same. We're all a little bit different to your left back or your right back or your central midfield player, the team players. And you need all those elements in a team for it to work.
Yeah. Even at such a young age, because you're similar age to me, just growing up and seeing a young guy doing all that, you're just like, fucking... How can you deal with that pressure and stuff? I was still playing like... out in the streets and stuff yeah but yeah
Gordon doing it in such pressures are really interesting topic though because I don't believe in pressure I'd believe in it if you're not very good at something or you can't do something if you ask me now to go and play golf and you know you guys were watching me I'd be thinking you haven't seen me before I might go that way it might go they might go that way it might go it couldn't go any way yeah But when you're good at something, when you can do something, I don't think there's any footballer that goes to sleep the night before thinking, oh, no, I'm playing football tomorrow. I'm so nervous that this could go wrong. I just don't think it. Does a pilot, ultimate responsibility. He's got 500 people behind him. It's his or her job to make you all safe. Do you think that they're like, oh, no, this pressure on me. Of course they don't. They're trained. They know it. They do it all the time. Do you think a brain surgeon is going to sleep the night before thinking, can't have a glass of red wine because I'm about to save a child's life? These are the like, you know, we're talking there's so much more pressure than playing football. You know, and I don't believe that these people go to sleep thinking, oh, I can't do my job till I'm so nervous about saving it. No, they focus. They're just, they've done it before. They're expert in it and, you know, they're going to give it, you know, their best attempt. and if it doesn't work, but they can live with it. They're just very, very good at what they do. I just don't think when you do something very well, I just don't think pressure... I never, ever thought, oh, no, the whole of Liverpool are expecting me to score, the whole of England are hoping that I'm going to score. I love that, the fact that people thought that of me, but I didn't shrink. I didn't think, oh, no, I'm so nervous and this pressure is becoming overwhelming. I just don't believe it. Pressure is something when you're not sure you can do it, in my eyes.
But you have this expectation on your shoulder for Liverpool, for your country.
Of course. So it's massive. It's an expectation. It is a pressure. Of course it is. When I look back now and think, oh, wow, yeah, actually you were carrying expectations. So of course it is a prep, but when you're doing it, and I give other examples of different jobs, whether you're a pilot, whether you're a brain surgeon, whatever you do, whether you're a golfer. I don't think that people that do the job consistently, I don't think that they, I think if they feel the pressure to, I don't think you'd be able to do the job. I just don't think, I just think if you're very, very capable of doing something, then I don't think you feel pressure. I don't think, anyway, that's my experience.
You clearly didn't.
No, I don't, no.
Witches.
But I do feel pressure. Yeah. I'm not immune as a person to not feel pressure. as I say if we play golf now I'd be like a bit nervous if you put 100 people watching me play I'd be oh my word I'd start thinking I'd start you know
I would be feeling big pressure but put a million people watching me play football bring it on it's like that's that's the easy bit yeah that's what I do that's what Brian Clough used to always say you can't really do anything if you're feeling pressure you can't well you need to relax and yeah do what you're good at so yeah absolutely and
that doesn't just come. I suppose some people's character is a certain way, but that is practice. That is repetition over years and years and years and years and years of going through on goalkeepers and thinking, right, what gives me the best chance? I always used to watch Ronaldo. He used to run through and step over, step over, step over and go past a goalkeeper, virtually always. So I used to try it and I tried it and tried it and tried it. I just didn't feel it. Just didn't feel it.
It's interesting because he said, Many years of work, you never said something about the talent.
Yeah.
You have the talent, but the talent doesn't beat, you know, how much you work.
Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
And I remember you in the training ground hitting the ball, you know, and to perform.
Do you know what the one thing that hindered my finishing in many ways, it helped in so many ways, is when I was very young, I was so much faster than everybody else when I was 10 or 12. So every single time I played in a... tee in a game, I would score five, six, seven, eight goals. But I would have 20 chances. The ball would chip out over the top. So I always had so much time. So I always put it on my right foot, because I wanted to score. And then I would try going around the goalkeeper, and I'd try chipping, and I'd try sliding, and I'd try all these different finishes. And of course, that's where you develop these. So if you put a goal in front of me now, drop a ball, I would just know what type of finish. based on where I am, how the ball is sitting, where the goalkeeper and all these things. It just becomes natural and instinctive. But because I was always faster than everybody as a young boy, I never used to take it on my left foot. So then I almost had to learn on the job in the first team because now all of a sudden I have a great defender on my right-hand side and the goal is there. I've got to take the ball away from him and he was just as fast. So then I'd have to hit it with my left foot. So I was learning on the job. when I was in the first team.
Yeah.
I'd always been so, so I'd perfected my skill in terms of when I broke free, I knew exactly what to do, but then... The challenging part came when I was under pressure with bigger, stronger, faster men. And then I had to sort of, as I say, learn on the job, which was quite an interesting thing for me. And the one thing I do regret was when I was younger, not being good enough, not practicing my left foot enough. I was good enough to strike the ball and hit it, but I wasn't good enough with my left foot, which was one regret I had.
Yeah. I'm just curious when you're saying you know you were young you were scoring all those goals and everything else what was the step up like playing against obviously premiership guys experienced strong was that obviously it wasn't a struggle for you but there must be some massive difference I know I don't know I don't it
didn't really it didn't really stop me or affect me of course it gets better, the standard gets better. And I must admit, when I'm jogging onto the pitch to make my debut in the first team, and then you score a goal on your debut, the feeling of relief, thinking all that, all that expectation and belief that you've had for so long, I don't care what you've done, and I had a really good junior youth career, there's nothing quite like now playing in the seeing it against men and thinking, can I? do this.
Yeah.
You still have question marks. Can I translate all this potential? And obviously I scored within five, 10 minutes of my debut.
Yeah.
So then all of that belief and confidence just comes flooding through thinking, yeah, 17 years of practice, of work, of belief, of it is actually, it is going to happen. Yeah. I am good enough, you know, but you can't help but have that question. But no, I didn't, I didn't really. ever hit a level where I thought, oh no, this is now too difficult. It all pretty much went smoothly. The only time I've ever looked at somebody and thought, oh no, oh no, was I think when Thierry Henry came into the league. And I thought, when I saw him, I thought... Because with other strikers...
Different profile.
Exactly. Just too good at everything. We had great strikers, Van Nistelrooy and Shearer and Rooney. There's loads and loads of great strikers over the years. But I never thought intimidate. I never thought, oh my word, he is so much better than me. I always thought I could hold my own against anybody. I could win the golden boot and etc. But when I saw Thierry Henry, I thought, that's the last golden boot I'm ever going to win. I just didn't, I couldn't see how... He is just so much, he was another level. That's true. Yeah, and I just thought, and that was the only time really that I've sat back. And when I was growing up, when I was watching R9 on the television, and I thought, you know, I was playing for England, under 15s, under 16s, breaking every record. I was the new, you know, everybody knew I was going to make it. And I thought I was, and I was playing all these, I played Brazil and I played Germany. I played all these countries at international level and in my age group. And I was, you know, one of the best players. But when I watched the television, I thought, oh my word, if that's the level you need, this is going to be difficult to be a professional footballer. Because he was just... So they're the two players that made me sit back and think, oh, I don't like this. I don't like this.
It's not a bad two to be up against. Who was the toughest defender you came up against when you went, I hate playing against that guy?
Ah, it's amazing because I've just literally travelled back from the Far East. I got home last night and we were playing in an old Legends game and I was playing against Yap Stam. Ah. Now, he wasn't bad. He was fast and strong and read the game and he was very, very good.
Aggressive.
Oh, very aggressive. I always struggled. Do you know who I didn't like playing against? Was it Marcel Desailly? Oh. When he came to Chelsea. The problem is... You don't like playing against the good teams in many ways because you hardly get any chances anyway.
Yeah.
And then when you do, if you're playing against a great centre-half, which invariably you do, like playing against Arsenal, you know, against the Invincibles, they'd have 70% of the ball. So as soon as you get it, like for one minute, and then Sol Campbell's behind you, it's like, you know, John Terry, Rio Ferdinand. I mean, they were all so... poor y'all. I hated playing against Puyol at Barcelona because again, they'd have 80% of the possession. Were you in the team when we went to Barcelona? We drew 0-0. I don't think I touched the ball once.
Yeah.
And then we beat them 1-0 at Anfield and we went on to win the UEFA Cup, which was incredible. I always look back fondly at those years because football, it will always change. Life will always change in every single way and there's nothing bad about that. But the profile of players around then was what I believe football really was. You know, like some of the great players around. Wow. And now, obviously, we're in an era now where it's so scientific, so, you know, running-based, athletic. And you would never have got in the team just being a runner back in the day. But likewise, some of the great players back in our days, you know, well, those players play now. You know, the Cantona's, the Leticia's, the people that don't do the hard yards. Yeah. But had genius qualities. Bergkamp and Zollers and all those great players. They didn't...
Schillingham.
Yeah, but they wouldn't have the running stats nowadays. And I just... They were the people that you pay to go and watch. They were the genius, class players. France had loads of them. The Djorkaevs and the Dugarys around that time. Yeah, that was the generation that I thought football was for me. I might be biased. We might be biased because it was our generation. There were some unbelievable players.
Aye. Anyway, I want to talk to you about that Argentina goal in France 98. Was that the moment, because obviously you were playing for Liverpool, you were doing really well, but was that the moment where things just went up to another level in terms of fame and getting hassled in the street and everything else?
Yeah, absolutely. I was waiting to hear how you finished the question then, because certainly not in terms of performance. And I mean, that was just as... not a standard but that's what I did around that time it wasn't a goal that you think oh my word Michael Owen scored I just won the golden boot in my first year in the Premier League so I was scoring plenty of goals and scoring goals for England so that was the type of thing I could do back then I couldn't have done it when I was 27 or 28 I physically couldn't have done that but obviously at that time I could do it but yeah that changed my life off the pitch I mean yeah yeah the in. everything about it, you know, around the world. I mean, obviously in the Premier League, the league was a big league in 98, but that opened it up to people knowing you all around the world.
Is there any nerves at the World Cup? I know you said you'd never have a ball, but even going to the World Cup?
Yeah, you're on edge, but you're wanting to do it. You can't wait to get at them, to get on that pitch. and go and do your stuff so it's more of an anticipation a few nerves yeah yeah because you know how big the game is um but at the time and that was to my advantage i think being young you have no scars yeah you've hardly had any you know failures in your life um you You believe you're Superman.
Yeah.
And, you know, and that's the... that's the beauty of being young. Of course, being older, you have the experience, but also a little bit of fear creeps in and a little bit of, you know, you look at who you're playing against and say, I didn't care. I didn't even, you know. So I think being young was a huge advantage, if anything. People look at you and say, 18, how did you do that? Surely you're a disadvantage. I think it's an advantage. If you've got the capability and the mindset to do it, I think it just, you're so free and so... carefree yeah you don't you you just think as i say you think you're superman that's a very unique thing to have though i think if someone threw me into a world cup at 18 i would shit the bed and literally but you wouldn't if you were if i was that good probably exactly exactly if someone if someone asked you to interview the most famous person in the world now i don't think you would shit the bed i think you know because you've done it and you're capable of doing it and you can hold the conversation you wouldn't yeah whereas a lot of people would because they can't do that so It just depends what you're trained at, what you're talented at. So if you can do it, you're not nervous about doing it. It goes back to what we said before about the pressure of doing it. People only think that I should have been nervous and they can't believe that I could have done it because they aren't a talented footballer themselves, but they're talented in another way. And I sort of marvel at other people thinking, how do you do that under so much pressure? That's just incredible. But it's only the same thing in a different life.
So I'm curious to know how life changed for you after that World Cup. Did you have to move away to a... quieter area? Did you have to have security people kicking around with you at that point? Because surely fans and everything would have been pissed at you. Yeah. You were the poster boy of football, really.
Yeah. I mean, I guess having a steady, strong family around you and growing up with that supportive family helps with your character. I always think, when I get asked this question, I always try, or I don't try, I always flip it on its head and say, people think... when somebody becomes famous or has a bit of success, people always think, how did it change you? But I would turn it around and say, it changes other people, their attitude towards you more than the other way around in many cases. Friends, family members, they all of a sudden, I came back from the World Cup, I hadn't scored a goal and they're like, oh my God, you're like the world. No, I'm... I'm your brother.
Yeah.
I'm your son. I'm your cousin. I'm your best friend. Always have been, always will be. I'm not a different person. I've just done something pretty cool. Yeah. But that's all it is. It's everybody's reaction to you that changes. Yeah. It's not necessary. I didn't, having scored a goal, I don't come back now thinking I'm six foot tall and I can talk down to people and I can, you know, do you know what I mean? I lose my manners all of a sudden.
Yeah.
What changes about me? yeah like what changed about i don't think anything um it's people's reaction and that some people are so you know oh wow that that's that's unbelievable what's just happened like and they they don't treat you like they not used to treat you just like talk to you like you i'm just still a normal person i mean it's not like i'm an alien that's just come i've just done my job and come home so but yes it did change um little things My routine changed a little bit. My mum, God love her, she... Like, fan mail, for example. We used to get sort of four big sacks, on average about four a day. So you would have like thousands and thousands and thousands of letters. But my mum obviously was very new to all this and I didn't really have a... I had an agent, but we were... But my mum was like, you can't ignore the fans. You know, you can't. Don't you be getting too big for your boots. You can't ignore the fans. So I'd be getting home at one o'clock from training and I'd be sitting. My mum all morning had been, you know, laying it all out, getting the envelopes, stamps, and, you know, all on the... So everything, I'd come home and the house was covered in letters. I'd be signing, signing. Right, this one, you've got to do this. And that one, you've got to do that. And this is an inquiry from a sponsor. And this is... And honestly... I'd be getting to bed at 10, 11 o'clock at night, having just signed and signed and signed. And after doing it for weeks and weeks and weeks, it was just like, this cannot continue. We can't live our life like this. If I spend one day that I'm not at home, the backlog, I'd be going into the early hours of the morning. So little things like that, that people don't even... But that's a massive change in my life. And that then affects the way I prepare for the next game, etc. So we had to bring in... My agent had to get more involved. We employed somebody to actually, on a full-time basis, sort out, you know, these are all inquiries for sponsors. These are all charity inquiries. These are all autographs. Now, Michael can't physically sign all the autographs at thousands and thousands every day. Yeah. So we created sort of a, you know, a bit of a photo, you know, with a printed signature on with, you know, with a thank you for your blowout. Anyway, so... We had to change different bits, but little things like that changed. You know, going in and getting recognised and, you know, I can't even play golf with my dad anymore without five, six, seven, eight paparazzi or rustling in the bush, taking pictures of you on every hole. And it's just like, oh, come on. Now that fades over a little bit of time, which is cool. But it was definitely a change, especially only being 18. You know, you couldn't go to the newsagents without people taking photos, being all over the papers, Michael Owen.
came out and he bought oh wow he bought a dairy milk bar of chocolate like in the newspaper why are you following me you know it's just anyway that was just the life at the time but uh it was it was definitely it definitely changed yeah no and uh i was i've just always curious to hear how you would have to adapt to things like doing that family or anything that must be yeah little things that people probably don't
even realize actually um You know, people obviously assume that you go to training, you eat the right food, you have a sleep, you do this, you do that, you live like a professional. But people don't sort of, you know, allow for things like fan mail, things like sponsorships. you know, filming adverts. God, after the World Cup, I was doing Walker's Crisps. I was doing Umbro Boots. I was doing a calendar shoot. I was doing, I think it was Purcell. I was doing, I had a watch company. I had a Jaguar car deal. I had dozens and dozens and dozens of different sponsorships that all want their two, three, four days a year. When you... bring it all together and all your training and all your traveling and all your games and all your this and that and the other you get a spare day and well you don't get a spare day with all this do you have this conversation with the boss when you're you're no try to hide it from the boss in a way because if he knew if i was playing on a saturday and he knew i was doing a five hour photo shoot or advert on a thursday he probably wouldn't have been happy So I would never do on a Friday, you know, the day before a game. we didn't have enough days in the week to manage the expectation or manage that you know what was being thrown upon me at the time so um because the boss was very much the case of you know relaxing family you know don't be doing this don't be you know but obviously my agent is like no no we need to do this we need to do this so it was it was quite difficult so um so no i didn't I didn't mention it too much, just kept it quiet, secret.
What move on to the Ballon d'Or, winning that in 2001? Yeah. Yeah, 2001 Ballon d'Or. When did you start to get a feeling you were in with a chance of being up there? That is just something that kids dream of, that stuff.
Well, I'm going to tell you, Gregory will probably fall off his chair, but... I didn't know what the Ballon d'Or was. And I knew that there was an award. I knew there was an award to vote for and to crown the best player in the world that year. I knew there was one out there, but I didn't know what it was called. Bear in mind, Gregory, no English player used to win it. We had Kevin Keegan, Sir Stanley Matthews, Sir Bobby Charlton. Sadly, all three of them have passed away, but we hadn't. had an English player since 1979, I think. Was it Keegan, 79?
Yeah.
He won it twice. Was it 78 and 79? It might be. Anyway, it just wasn't in our newspapers and social media wasn't there at the time. So we just didn't promote it because nobody ever won it. And it was always a Spanish player or a French player or Portuguese or whoever it was. And so I had never been told about it. And I remember playing Roma in the UEFA Cup and Phil Thompson, we were never allowed our phones, were we? Like phone ban all the time. Gerard Houllier hated us on phones. Anyway, Phil Thompson went like this, literally 45 minutes before kickoff. I'm like, what's he want? He's already picked the team. He can't sort of change the team now. He said, I've got the boss on the phone because Gerard had just had the heart problem. So he was lying in hospital, but he wanted to tell me. So he said, get out into the corridor. The boss wants to speak to you. And I thought, is he going to give me a team talk? Or what's happening here? And he said, he said, Michael, I want to tell you before you play. I want to give you a boost. You mustn't tell anybody. This is a secret for the next two weeks. It's not been announced yet, but you've won the Ballon d'Or. And I said, boss, what's that? He said, it's the Ballon d'Or. It's the... it's the vote for the best player in the block. And he started explaining it. I was like, oh my word, that's unbelievable. And I was thrilled. Don't get me wrong, I was so happy. But when he first said it to me, I was like, don't know what that is. And so, yeah, so I can't say that leading up to it, I was thinking anything other than just, you know, playing for Liverpool and whatever, you know, there was no campaign to get the votes in or... Like now, you know, everybody's, Yamal is texting and saying, oh, I deserve to win it because of this. And then Bafe saying I should win it because of this. You know, there was no campaign. It was just, I only just found out then.
When I knew he won the Ballon d'Or, it was amazing.
Yeah.
He didn't realize.
No, and the crazy thing is, on the continent back in the day, when I went to Real Madrid, it's the only thing they were saying, Michael, I win the Ballon d'Or. Every time they say my name, it follows with Ballon d'Or. It's such a... It's such a thing. And it's such a thing, don't get me wrong, in the UK now. Now people know about it. And obviously, we've got maybe a chance this year with the likes of Harry Kane. But now everybody knows about it. And social media does a great job as well. But at the time...
Until that phone call, I didn't know what it was.
Who were you up against for that year?
Second was Raul. Oliver Kahn was up there. But of course, Henri's and Zidane's were in the... It was not a World Cup year. It was 2001, so it was obviously an in-between year. We had won all those. We had won five trophies in one year. England had had a really good season, probably highlighted by the Germany 5-1. So yeah, it was obviously a really good generation. I mean all the great French players at the time that had just won the World Cup in 98. And then you had some, you know, R9 was around and you had your Del Pierros and your Totties and Shevchenkos and Batastutas, all those great players at the the time so yeah it was a it was a great era of football in fact I came fourth in it in 1998 and I didn't even know. But when I looked at the lists after I'd won it, I thought, oh my word, I came fourth in 98. But I think that when you look at the players, and I've looked at all the lists of over the generations, when you look at the players that were in the top 20, 98, 99, oh my word, you've never seen anything like it. You've never seen anything like it. It's unbelievable, the players around them. Gerard Houllier was... so proud. Like, I couldn't believe, I was thinking, he was, he was almost like emotional that one of his players had won the Ballon. It, and obviously it's, you know, it's a French award back in the day, you know, and all the rest of it. And I guess that he's been part of that federation and obviously part of French football for so many years. It meant so much to him and his family and the way his family came in to, to see my family, you know, after the, the, after I had won it at Anfield in the players lounge and the emotion from him and I couldn't I couldn't believe it but it's when Gregory says things like that now it it sort of resonates yeah and to this day I mean it actually means more to me every day that goes past yeah you know Greg's right when I when I won when I won it there's that much in your career you know three days I lifted up the trophy at Anfield but I'm about to play Derby County in the league you know I'm like got to score got to win forget that trophy I'll look at that after and then you get off the you know and you take it home and you put it in your cabinet but then two days later you're playing against somebody else and football is like that it's just every other day you know and if I don't score the next week it's like oh Michael Owen how did he win the Ballon d'Or so you're constantly your mind is the next thing so it's better for me nowadays I'm not competing against anybody. I can look at that trophy. I can look back at the players I played with, the great times, the goals we scored, the trophies we won, and I can be really proud of it. So to this day, it means more to me today than it has in any point of my life, really. I just appreciate it more and more and more.
And where does that sit? In the house, up in the wall somewhere?
You've got to say it's secret.
Ah, right there, feeling off. I will tell you. Cut up the house. I had a... No, I had a cabinet made 20 years ago and all my trophies and medals are all in that cabinet. It's right in the middle. It's at the top in the middle and it's on a little plinth that just slowly spins around all day. There's nothing else that spins, just that one.
I am curious, there is like a ball ballon d'or or other ex-ballon d'or? Do you have any chat with them before the vote?
No, but you get invited every year to go.
The ceremony?
Yes. So I'm going to go this year. I've been before. I presented Cristiano Ronaldo at the Bernabeu with it. And I've been to one in Paris as well on the Eiffel Tower. But this year it's in London. So I'm going to go to it this year as well.
Why not? D-mate out.
Exactly. I've not been to many, but I'll go to this one.
I want to talk a bit about leaving Liverpool and going to Real Madrid. How did that come about? Were you just wanting to challenge yourself abroad, or was there Liverpool needed money?
I don't think either. I mean, it transpired that, yeah, like challenging yourself to go abroad, that's one of the sort of the reasons in your head. But at the time, I never, ever thought I would live. Liverpool. Me, Jamie Carragher, Steven Gerrard came through the ranks. It was just, this is our club. But Gerrard, Julien, left and Rafa Benitez had came in and we were on pre-season tour getting to know the new manager and my phone went we had finished a train we'd finished a training session Jamie Carragher was lying on that bed and I was on the bed over here and my agent phoned me and he used to phone me every two or three days I didn't think it was anything you know and I he said can you speak and I was like well Cara's my best mate he you know he's yeah yeah yeah I'm free yeah in between training sessions. And he said, there's a big interest in you from Real Madrid. They want to sign you. I was like, oh, my word, you're joking. And he said, yeah. I said, right, OK. And, you know, and what's, you know, go on, explain. And, well, blah, And he just started. So I spoke to the president. And he, you know, this and that and the other. So I said, fine, OK, put the phone down. And Cara obviously had heard the conversation. He just looked at me and went, don't.
Nope.
Don't do it. And I went, why not? He says, mate, they've got Ronaldo, they've got Raul, they've got Morientes, they're buying players all the time. He says, you're like the star here. You play every week. Fans love you and this and that and the other. You're not going to break in ahead of R9 and Raul. Raul's their golden child and R9 is the best player in the world. I just don't think you should. But him saying that, that's red rag to a bull for me. That's like, you don't think I can be better than them type of attitude. That's just my, what? I will show you. Anyway, for the next week, 10 days maybe, I couldn't get it out of my head. I was thinking, no, don't do it. Cara's right. Everything's great here. Everything's perfect. You live at home, Liverpool. great club, the fans love you and all the rest of it. And then the next day I'd wake up and think, do you know what? If you say no to that, you will regret it. This will be your only chance to have a move, just a move and to see something different in your life, to live in a different country, to speak another language, different food, different weather, that white kit, that stadium, new league, the players. It's the Galactico era. I mean, you had Zidane and Raul and Ronaldo and Roberto Carlos and Figo and Beckham. I mean, it was an unbelievable era. And I thought, you can always come back. You can always come back, but you'll never get a chance to go again. And then the next day I'd be thinking, no, no, no, don't do it. Don't be stupid. And it was just two every day. And it was getting me down a little bit. Obviously, it's a lovely problem to have, but it really wasn't. I wish the problem wasn't there.
Yeah.
in many ways at the time. Eventually, I just, I met Rafa Benitez because the club needed a decision and I met Rafa Benitez and I just said to him, I just feel as if I need to go and give it a try. But obviously, I almost want to shake your hand and say, can I come back in one year or two years?
Yeah.
So that's what we did. I sort of shook the hand of Rick Parry, who was our chief exec at the time, and said, you know, I know we can't put it into a contract maybe, but, you know. I don't want to leave. I want to come back. So we all agreed that that would be the case. I'd go and have a crack at it. So I cried all the way to the airport. I didn't want to leave Liverpool, but I did want to go and experience something. It was my decision and my decision only. I wasn't forced out. I wasn't held to ransom by it. It was all perfectly amicable. But I just thought, I've just got to try it. And that was the story, really. We'll all have times in our lives, you know.
Was your family there?
Yeah, but only my wife. And I had a one-year-old daughter as well at the time. So it was quite difficult. It was difficult for them, really difficult for them, because we lived in a hotel for the first five months and I was away all the time and my wife, different, no friends. It was quite difficult for her. But I've no, you know, people always ask me. do you regret going to a like leaving liverpool going to real madrid i'm like everybody has these moments in their life where they can go to that job or that job or marry this person or do this or buy that car or whatever we all have decisions all the time you know and mine was just a career decision that i wasn't changing jobs yeah in terms of you know i was still playing football just a different team happens all the time you know no it's like it was real madrid you've you've You've got to do it. Even, you know, the likes of Jamie Carrey that wanted me or saying don't do it, you know, they can accept that. Come on. It's real.
Exactly.
The quality of the players, Michael. Could you speak about this? Because when you play with these unbelievable players.
Yeah.
But the quality, you know, in training, the quality in games, the technique and everything.
Yeah.
It must be so.
Oh, it was an incredible generation. And the difficult thing was Barcelona had a great generation as well at the time with Etu and Ronaldinho and all their great midfield players. So it was just an... Unbelievable time. It was when Spanish football was the best. Those two teams were so much better than everyone else, I think, around that generation. In fact, both teams continued to go and dominate Europe after that. But the players themselves, yeah. I mean, the one player that stands out for me was Zidane. He was probably in the peak of his career. I mean, the speed, the strength, the technique, just a genius. It was just pure, just beautiful to watch him. He was just so elegant. If a ball comes to me and I want to go that way and it's bouncing up here, I think, right, chest it down and take it with my right foot, all in one nice movement. Just before we'd be coming, he would be looking and he would just sort of bump. In one movement, he would be running at top speed. but also have chested it down into everything that we normal people could do in two or three touches. He was just doing it in one and just natural and graceful, just amazing. To either foot, you know, manipulating the ball. I mean, I was good with a right foot, I could cruif turn or chop or this or that, but on my left, he could do everything with both feet. Just genius.
What do you see now with nationality? You know, we had a few things, you know, from the journalist.
Yeah.
He's still playing with the boys,
you know. He's just got the touch. He's like a magician. Yeah. There's not many people that have just got that. You know, Messi would have it. Zidane would have it. There's not many that just have got that. The rest of us will have to try and work on it. I mean, R9 was, like, in my opinion, the greatest of all time, in my opinion. But because he only for a short period of time, because then he got injured and a little bit like my career, but to the lesser extent. But, you know, I was very good, but then got injured and then I was just OK. But Ronaldo was still a great player, but he wasn't. So obviously I was privileged to play alongside him, but he wasn't the player of when he was 20. So he was great. And you could see in bits that he was just a genius as well. But of course, his physical, his knee was just... always preventing him from being like he was as a young player. But Figue, I tell you who I loved playing with was Guti. Guti was a dream for someone like me because every time he just wanted to play the killer pass. Zidane wouldn't want to give the ball away. So unless the ball was on, he would keep it and pass. But Guti was like, as soon as he got it, head up. Where's Michael Owen? Where's Ronaldo? Over the top. He just loved these passes, risky passes all the time. So I loved playing with Guti. It was great times. It was great fun. And, you know, I really enjoyed it. As I say, my family, they struggled a little bit and I always wanted to come back to the Premier League. You know, I'm a homeboy, really. I like being around my family and whatever, and the comforts of home. But I had such a good experience. I loved it.
Yeah. Nice. Ticked that box.
Yeah.
And then from there, over to Newcastle. Is it true? I don't know if this is bollocks or not, but you used to fly in a helicopter to training for Newcastle.
It's half true. Like anything in the newspapers, they always get like 10% right or 20% right. No, I'd obviously been away from home for a year and I wanted... Newcastle to work. First of all, I nearly signed for Liverpool, but Newcastle doubled the bid and Madrid would only send me to Newcastle, et cetera, et cetera. Anyway, long story short, I signed for Newcastle, but Newcastle's three and a half hours. One of the whole reasons for coming back to Newcastle was to be closer to home. I wanted my mum and dad to come and see me. I one of my wife, you know, my wife lived up with me with my daughter. We had our second child, son, while we were there. But I wanted to be able to, if we get Wednesday off, I wanted to have the flexibility of being able to go home after training on Tuesday, spend Tuesday afternoon at home. be here at Manor House Stables, big passion of mine, business that was growing. Then I'd be home all day Wednesday and then I could fly up at sort of eight o'clock, land at nine o'clock. We didn't have to be in till 10 o'clock. So it was brilliant. Match days, my mum and dad could fly up and watch me. I didn't want, you know, ageing parents driving up three and a half hours or every single, you know, we sometimes played twice a week.
Yeah.
So I just thought, and it... It's one of those things. In hindsight, you think, I shouldn't have done it because of what people say, what people think. But then part of me thinks, you know what, I don't care what people say and think. I only did it for mainly my family so we could see each other more. My mum and dad and brothers and sisters could come up and watch me. It was quite hard in Madrid not seeing my family for a whole year. To say that I used to go in and out of training every day is rubbish. I mean, it would basically be, if we had one game on a Saturday, let's say, one game on a Saturday every week, we'd have Sunday off and we'd have Wednesday off. So after the game on Saturday, we would fly home and I'd spend all of Sunday home and fly back up Monday. I'd spend Monday and Tuesday there, fly back Tuesday afternoon, spend Wednesday at home and then fly up Thursday morning, spend Thursday, Friday, Saturday up there. And I had a house there.
Yeah.
bought a house there, lived there for four years. You know, so, and not always would we have only one game in a day, in which case I'd not fly home. But it was just a really handy way of seeing my family a lot more. But obviously, from my image point of view, it didn't help. Because as soon as you get injured or you don't play, Newcastle fans think, oh, he doesn't even like it here. He flies home every day and all that rubbish. It's just not true. So that's the... It leaves you open to criticism.
Yeah.
And that was the difficult thing.
You're loving Liam.
Well, I know. And if I had the same thing again, would I do it? I don't know. I mean, I should say, absolutely I would. Absolutely I would. I want my mum and dad to come and watch me play football. What's wrong with, you know, what's wrong in that? So part of me thinks I probably would do the same again, but some of me thinks, you know what? You just leave yourself so open to people creating stories, saying this, saying that. It's just like, oh. And any helicopter. I mean, I'd be training. And then the helicopter would fly over and everyone would say, oh, no, he's still here. You know what I mean? So, you know, but if you're living in Newcastle, if you're just in your garden and you're a Newcastle fan, you see a helicopter, you think, oh, there's Michael Owen going home again. It's like, it's not. I'm here. But do you know what I mean? It just leaves you open to criticism.
I want to move quickly on to... Man United, so running out of time here, we could talk for hours. Man United, was there any doubt about going there just because of the Liverpool connection?
Yeah, I'd be lying if I said there wasn't something thinking, oh my word, this is not going to go down well. But when I left Newcastle, the first person that I contacted was Jamie Carragher and Steven Gerrard and said, do us a favour, go and speak to Brendan. Brendan Rodgers was the manager at the time. Go and speak to Brendan. I'm on a free. And he was signing David Ngog at the time. And he already had, I don't know who was there. Was it Torres or Suarez? Anyway, he already had a top centre forward, obviously. But I still wanted to go back home. I always wanted to go from Madrid back to Liverpool. that couldn't happen and then I got it inserted into my Newcastle contract that after one year I could go to Liverpool but then I did my knee in the World Cup so at every stage I wanted to go back to Liverpool and I don't make any apologies for that Liverpool's my club came through the ranks that's how I feel but obviously when Brendan Rodgers then says no like I can't retire. I've got to go somewhere. I'd done the abroad experience, wanted to stay in the Premier League. Everton wanted to sign me and so did Hull. Now, with all due respect, Hull were a team at the bottom of the league at the time. Everton, I just thought, I can't go to Everton. I mean, as much as I supported them when I was a young boy, Liverpool fans are going to hate me. So I'm having this summer thinking, what am I going to do? here, I've got Everton, do I go abroad again? I really don't want to go abroad again. And I was just waiting and waiting, hoping something would come. And then Nicky Buck phoned me, who I was playing with at Newcastle. He said, Mo, the gaffer's going to call you. And I was like... Who was the gaffer? You know, because we had lots of gaffers at Newcastle. He goes, Sir Alex. I'm like, what? He says, Man United want to sign you. Sir Alex is going to call you. Stay by your phone. So I'm like, oh, my word. My head started spinning thinking, right, well, now I've got Hull. I'm going to rule that out. I've got Everton or Man United. Well, Liverpool fans are not going to be happy either way.
Yeah.
But they were the options. I didn't have any other options. And then I thought to myself, do you know what? Liverpool didn't want me.
Yeah.
Like. I've given myself to them at every stage. I've even got it in my contract at Newcastle to go back. At every stage, I could have gone back, but the managers never wanted me back. So it's like, what do you want me to do? I can't do any more than... So at that point, it's like, right, well, do you know what? You've got to play at the top of your game. You've got to play for as good a team as you can. You can live at home. You know all the players anyway. I played for England with Wes Brown and Paul Scholes and the Neville brothers and all. I knew half the team and I just thought, yeah, I'm going to get a bit of stick. But you know what? When I came back to Anfield for Newcastle, I got a bit of stick. So I thought, well, do you know what? A few Liverpool fans are booing me anyway. I'm not exactly their favourite person for leaving in the first place. So Manchester United. Great club, great manager, great players, can win things, can live at home. Why am I having to say sorry here? Why are you sitting here thinking about everybody else and hurting other people's feelings? They don't care about me anymore. So I thought, you know what? It is a no-brainer. I've just got to do it.
And first game of the season against Birmingham City.
You told me that.
Against me. What did he do? He scored a goal. Where's my new...
Birmingham, that's right. Yeah,
yeah,
yeah. But it was obviously difficult.
First game of the season.
Yeah. It was obviously difficult for me because, you know, it wasn't just like what Liverpool fans were thinking. But obviously Manchester United fans, they, you know, I'd scored lots of goals against Manchester United over the years.
Yeah.
So they wouldn't have liked me back in the day. But obviously, so then you're thinking I've got to try, you know, I've got to win them over. I've got to play well. And obviously... I think it was the third game or the fourth game of the season. We played Manchester City and then I scored that goal in the 96th or 97th. And that was just, right, I'm away now. Fans are happy. And even now, Manchester United fans will always remember that goal. So that was good that I did something quite big early in the season, early in my career at Manchester United.
What a career.
Yeah.
You can't be proud of that.
No, exactly. We are out of time and I know you're a busy man. So thank you very much for coming on. It's been an absolute pleasure.
No, my pleasure. Good to see my old teammate again. Yeah, when he messaged me, I thought, yeah, I've got to do that. So, no, great to meet you. Thanks so much. Merci, monsieur.
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We had legend Michael Owen join us for this episode, a Ballon d'Or winner talking about all things football.
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Transcription
Ten minutes gone. He could be away here. Michael Owen. He's got goals with him. But it's still Owen. Oh, what a goal This 18-year-old has electrified the world.
Welcome to today's podcast where we are joined by our best guest today, Mr Michael Owen. Thank you for joining us.
It's very kind of you to say so.
Not often you get a balance of time at all.
Apt timing isn't it I guess with the award coming soon.
Yeah, but yeah, so we're going to basically talk about your career and some of the stories and everything else. But first thing I've got to ask, what was it like?
clean the cake very good very good we had a big
French influence at the time you know Gerard Houllier came in and signed a lot of players and understandably that you would know that you would be aware of we had some yeah some some great players that joined at the time we had a big clear out under Gerard Houllier right I think it was before Gregory came to Liverpool, but we had the likes of Sammy Hippie, Stefan Hentschel, Sander Wessler. We had like a group of 12, 14 players or something that signed in that summer. I can't quite remember. There were loads of players signed. And then after that, you know, gradually he just picked up one or two along the way. But yeah, it was good days, the great days. I really enjoyed those moments.
But I'm curious to know... Who was the first senior player, obviously you're breaking through at Liverpool at such a young age, who was the first senior player who looked after you on that team? Because that team was full of legends.
It was. I think Jamie Redknapp was a real good friend of mine, a real kind guy. Lived on this side of the water, so spent a bit of time with him. He probably had that caring influence, I'd say, on me. I obviously got into the team when the likes of Steve McManam and Robbie Fowler were around, but Robbie was a centre forward and I was a centre forward and we were very similar. And if I was 25 now and a young kid came into the group, you do want to help them, but also you don't want them to take your place. It's a very strange sort of thing. It is a team and if everybody is doing so well, then it should benefit everybody. Not to the expense of you type of attitude. It's very strange. I mean, I can't imagine a goalkeeper and a second goalkeeper would be the best of friends if they were really going at it. I mean, it's dog eat dog in many ways. So I'd say if I had to pick one, I mean, we had John Barnes was a great, a lovely influence on us. What a player he was. But I think Jamie Redknapp had that really nice, caring nature about him. And he always took me under his wing.
Stefan Inschel told us the same thing about you.
Yeah?
Yeah.
Jamie's a lovely guy. Really caring and a nice person. Yeah. And you know as well as I do, Gregory, different players in different positions have different attitudes. I mean, goalkeepers are a little bit different to everybody else. Yeah. Centre forwards. If you're a goal scorer, it is like you are just goals, You don't think about the team. You're just so... zoned in and if you're not like that you tell me if you know Alan Shearer and Wayne you know there's so many great strikers none of them are happy if they if they don't score yeah Ruud van Nistelrooy was all everybody used to joke about Ruud van Nistelrooy they if they win five nil but he didn't score he would have a mood until the next game that's the sort of what what people used to say well I was a little bit like that as well and I joke now you know with people on the television. that I work with, the Robbie Fowlers, the Jermaine Defoe, we're all the same. We're all a little bit different to your left back or your right back or your central midfield player, the team players. And you need all those elements in a team for it to work.
Yeah. Even at such a young age, because you're similar age to me, just growing up and seeing a young guy doing all that, you're just like, fucking... How can you deal with that pressure and stuff? I was still playing like... out in the streets and stuff yeah but yeah
Gordon doing it in such pressures are really interesting topic though because I don't believe in pressure I'd believe in it if you're not very good at something or you can't do something if you ask me now to go and play golf and you know you guys were watching me I'd be thinking you haven't seen me before I might go that way it might go they might go that way it might go it couldn't go any way yeah But when you're good at something, when you can do something, I don't think there's any footballer that goes to sleep the night before thinking, oh, no, I'm playing football tomorrow. I'm so nervous that this could go wrong. I just don't think it. Does a pilot, ultimate responsibility. He's got 500 people behind him. It's his or her job to make you all safe. Do you think that they're like, oh, no, this pressure on me. Of course they don't. They're trained. They know it. They do it all the time. Do you think a brain surgeon is going to sleep the night before thinking, can't have a glass of red wine because I'm about to save a child's life? These are the like, you know, we're talking there's so much more pressure than playing football. You know, and I don't believe that these people go to sleep thinking, oh, I can't do my job till I'm so nervous about saving it. No, they focus. They're just, they've done it before. They're expert in it and, you know, they're going to give it, you know, their best attempt. and if it doesn't work, but they can live with it. They're just very, very good at what they do. I just don't think when you do something very well, I just don't think pressure... I never, ever thought, oh, no, the whole of Liverpool are expecting me to score, the whole of England are hoping that I'm going to score. I love that, the fact that people thought that of me, but I didn't shrink. I didn't think, oh, no, I'm so nervous and this pressure is becoming overwhelming. I just don't believe it. Pressure is something when you're not sure you can do it, in my eyes.
But you have this expectation on your shoulder for Liverpool, for your country.
Of course. So it's massive. It's an expectation. It is a pressure. Of course it is. When I look back now and think, oh, wow, yeah, actually you were carrying expectations. So of course it is a prep, but when you're doing it, and I give other examples of different jobs, whether you're a pilot, whether you're a brain surgeon, whatever you do, whether you're a golfer. I don't think that people that do the job consistently, I don't think that they, I think if they feel the pressure to, I don't think you'd be able to do the job. I just don't think, I just think if you're very, very capable of doing something, then I don't think you feel pressure. I don't think, anyway, that's my experience.
You clearly didn't.
No, I don't, no.
Witches.
But I do feel pressure. Yeah. I'm not immune as a person to not feel pressure. as I say if we play golf now I'd be like a bit nervous if you put 100 people watching me play I'd be oh my word I'd start thinking I'd start you know
I would be feeling big pressure but put a million people watching me play football bring it on it's like that's that's the easy bit yeah that's what I do that's what Brian Clough used to always say you can't really do anything if you're feeling pressure you can't well you need to relax and yeah do what you're good at so yeah absolutely and
that doesn't just come. I suppose some people's character is a certain way, but that is practice. That is repetition over years and years and years and years and years of going through on goalkeepers and thinking, right, what gives me the best chance? I always used to watch Ronaldo. He used to run through and step over, step over, step over and go past a goalkeeper, virtually always. So I used to try it and I tried it and tried it and tried it. I just didn't feel it. Just didn't feel it.
It's interesting because he said, Many years of work, you never said something about the talent.
Yeah.
You have the talent, but the talent doesn't beat, you know, how much you work.
Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
And I remember you in the training ground hitting the ball, you know, and to perform.
Do you know what the one thing that hindered my finishing in many ways, it helped in so many ways, is when I was very young, I was so much faster than everybody else when I was 10 or 12. So every single time I played in a... tee in a game, I would score five, six, seven, eight goals. But I would have 20 chances. The ball would chip out over the top. So I always had so much time. So I always put it on my right foot, because I wanted to score. And then I would try going around the goalkeeper, and I'd try chipping, and I'd try sliding, and I'd try all these different finishes. And of course, that's where you develop these. So if you put a goal in front of me now, drop a ball, I would just know what type of finish. based on where I am, how the ball is sitting, where the goalkeeper and all these things. It just becomes natural and instinctive. But because I was always faster than everybody as a young boy, I never used to take it on my left foot. So then I almost had to learn on the job in the first team because now all of a sudden I have a great defender on my right-hand side and the goal is there. I've got to take the ball away from him and he was just as fast. So then I'd have to hit it with my left foot. So I was learning on the job. when I was in the first team.
Yeah.
I'd always been so, so I'd perfected my skill in terms of when I broke free, I knew exactly what to do, but then... The challenging part came when I was under pressure with bigger, stronger, faster men. And then I had to sort of, as I say, learn on the job, which was quite an interesting thing for me. And the one thing I do regret was when I was younger, not being good enough, not practicing my left foot enough. I was good enough to strike the ball and hit it, but I wasn't good enough with my left foot, which was one regret I had.
Yeah. I'm just curious when you're saying you know you were young you were scoring all those goals and everything else what was the step up like playing against obviously premiership guys experienced strong was that obviously it wasn't a struggle for you but there must be some massive difference I know I don't know I don't it
didn't really it didn't really stop me or affect me of course it gets better, the standard gets better. And I must admit, when I'm jogging onto the pitch to make my debut in the first team, and then you score a goal on your debut, the feeling of relief, thinking all that, all that expectation and belief that you've had for so long, I don't care what you've done, and I had a really good junior youth career, there's nothing quite like now playing in the seeing it against men and thinking, can I? do this.
Yeah.
You still have question marks. Can I translate all this potential? And obviously I scored within five, 10 minutes of my debut.
Yeah.
So then all of that belief and confidence just comes flooding through thinking, yeah, 17 years of practice, of work, of belief, of it is actually, it is going to happen. Yeah. I am good enough, you know, but you can't help but have that question. But no, I didn't, I didn't really. ever hit a level where I thought, oh no, this is now too difficult. It all pretty much went smoothly. The only time I've ever looked at somebody and thought, oh no, oh no, was I think when Thierry Henry came into the league. And I thought, when I saw him, I thought... Because with other strikers...
Different profile.
Exactly. Just too good at everything. We had great strikers, Van Nistelrooy and Shearer and Rooney. There's loads and loads of great strikers over the years. But I never thought intimidate. I never thought, oh my word, he is so much better than me. I always thought I could hold my own against anybody. I could win the golden boot and etc. But when I saw Thierry Henry, I thought, that's the last golden boot I'm ever going to win. I just didn't, I couldn't see how... He is just so much, he was another level. That's true. Yeah, and I just thought, and that was the only time really that I've sat back. And when I was growing up, when I was watching R9 on the television, and I thought, you know, I was playing for England, under 15s, under 16s, breaking every record. I was the new, you know, everybody knew I was going to make it. And I thought I was, and I was playing all these, I played Brazil and I played Germany. I played all these countries at international level and in my age group. And I was, you know, one of the best players. But when I watched the television, I thought, oh my word, if that's the level you need, this is going to be difficult to be a professional footballer. Because he was just... So they're the two players that made me sit back and think, oh, I don't like this. I don't like this.
It's not a bad two to be up against. Who was the toughest defender you came up against when you went, I hate playing against that guy?
Ah, it's amazing because I've just literally travelled back from the Far East. I got home last night and we were playing in an old Legends game and I was playing against Yap Stam. Ah. Now, he wasn't bad. He was fast and strong and read the game and he was very, very good.
Aggressive.
Oh, very aggressive. I always struggled. Do you know who I didn't like playing against? Was it Marcel Desailly? Oh. When he came to Chelsea. The problem is... You don't like playing against the good teams in many ways because you hardly get any chances anyway.
Yeah.
And then when you do, if you're playing against a great centre-half, which invariably you do, like playing against Arsenal, you know, against the Invincibles, they'd have 70% of the ball. So as soon as you get it, like for one minute, and then Sol Campbell's behind you, it's like, you know, John Terry, Rio Ferdinand. I mean, they were all so... poor y'all. I hated playing against Puyol at Barcelona because again, they'd have 80% of the possession. Were you in the team when we went to Barcelona? We drew 0-0. I don't think I touched the ball once.
Yeah.
And then we beat them 1-0 at Anfield and we went on to win the UEFA Cup, which was incredible. I always look back fondly at those years because football, it will always change. Life will always change in every single way and there's nothing bad about that. But the profile of players around then was what I believe football really was. You know, like some of the great players around. Wow. And now, obviously, we're in an era now where it's so scientific, so, you know, running-based, athletic. And you would never have got in the team just being a runner back in the day. But likewise, some of the great players back in our days, you know, well, those players play now. You know, the Cantona's, the Leticia's, the people that don't do the hard yards. Yeah. But had genius qualities. Bergkamp and Zollers and all those great players. They didn't...
Schillingham.
Yeah, but they wouldn't have the running stats nowadays. And I just... They were the people that you pay to go and watch. They were the genius, class players. France had loads of them. The Djorkaevs and the Dugarys around that time. Yeah, that was the generation that I thought football was for me. I might be biased. We might be biased because it was our generation. There were some unbelievable players.
Aye. Anyway, I want to talk to you about that Argentina goal in France 98. Was that the moment, because obviously you were playing for Liverpool, you were doing really well, but was that the moment where things just went up to another level in terms of fame and getting hassled in the street and everything else?
Yeah, absolutely. I was waiting to hear how you finished the question then, because certainly not in terms of performance. And I mean, that was just as... not a standard but that's what I did around that time it wasn't a goal that you think oh my word Michael Owen scored I just won the golden boot in my first year in the Premier League so I was scoring plenty of goals and scoring goals for England so that was the type of thing I could do back then I couldn't have done it when I was 27 or 28 I physically couldn't have done that but obviously at that time I could do it but yeah that changed my life off the pitch I mean yeah yeah the in. everything about it, you know, around the world. I mean, obviously in the Premier League, the league was a big league in 98, but that opened it up to people knowing you all around the world.
Is there any nerves at the World Cup? I know you said you'd never have a ball, but even going to the World Cup?
Yeah, you're on edge, but you're wanting to do it. You can't wait to get at them, to get on that pitch. and go and do your stuff so it's more of an anticipation a few nerves yeah yeah because you know how big the game is um but at the time and that was to my advantage i think being young you have no scars yeah you've hardly had any you know failures in your life um you You believe you're Superman.
Yeah.
And, you know, and that's the... that's the beauty of being young. Of course, being older, you have the experience, but also a little bit of fear creeps in and a little bit of, you know, you look at who you're playing against and say, I didn't care. I didn't even, you know. So I think being young was a huge advantage, if anything. People look at you and say, 18, how did you do that? Surely you're a disadvantage. I think it's an advantage. If you've got the capability and the mindset to do it, I think it just, you're so free and so... carefree yeah you don't you you just think as i say you think you're superman that's a very unique thing to have though i think if someone threw me into a world cup at 18 i would shit the bed and literally but you wouldn't if you were if i was that good probably exactly exactly if someone if someone asked you to interview the most famous person in the world now i don't think you would shit the bed i think you know because you've done it and you're capable of doing it and you can hold the conversation you wouldn't yeah whereas a lot of people would because they can't do that so It just depends what you're trained at, what you're talented at. So if you can do it, you're not nervous about doing it. It goes back to what we said before about the pressure of doing it. People only think that I should have been nervous and they can't believe that I could have done it because they aren't a talented footballer themselves, but they're talented in another way. And I sort of marvel at other people thinking, how do you do that under so much pressure? That's just incredible. But it's only the same thing in a different life.
So I'm curious to know how life changed for you after that World Cup. Did you have to move away to a... quieter area? Did you have to have security people kicking around with you at that point? Because surely fans and everything would have been pissed at you. Yeah. You were the poster boy of football, really.
Yeah. I mean, I guess having a steady, strong family around you and growing up with that supportive family helps with your character. I always think, when I get asked this question, I always try, or I don't try, I always flip it on its head and say, people think... when somebody becomes famous or has a bit of success, people always think, how did it change you? But I would turn it around and say, it changes other people, their attitude towards you more than the other way around in many cases. Friends, family members, they all of a sudden, I came back from the World Cup, I hadn't scored a goal and they're like, oh my God, you're like the world. No, I'm... I'm your brother.
Yeah.
I'm your son. I'm your cousin. I'm your best friend. Always have been, always will be. I'm not a different person. I've just done something pretty cool. Yeah. But that's all it is. It's everybody's reaction to you that changes. Yeah. It's not necessary. I didn't, having scored a goal, I don't come back now thinking I'm six foot tall and I can talk down to people and I can, you know, do you know what I mean? I lose my manners all of a sudden.
Yeah.
What changes about me? yeah like what changed about i don't think anything um it's people's reaction and that some people are so you know oh wow that that's that's unbelievable what's just happened like and they they don't treat you like they not used to treat you just like talk to you like you i'm just still a normal person i mean it's not like i'm an alien that's just come i've just done my job and come home so but yes it did change um little things My routine changed a little bit. My mum, God love her, she... Like, fan mail, for example. We used to get sort of four big sacks, on average about four a day. So you would have like thousands and thousands and thousands of letters. But my mum obviously was very new to all this and I didn't really have a... I had an agent, but we were... But my mum was like, you can't ignore the fans. You know, you can't. Don't you be getting too big for your boots. You can't ignore the fans. So I'd be getting home at one o'clock from training and I'd be sitting. My mum all morning had been, you know, laying it all out, getting the envelopes, stamps, and, you know, all on the... So everything, I'd come home and the house was covered in letters. I'd be signing, signing. Right, this one, you've got to do this. And that one, you've got to do that. And this is an inquiry from a sponsor. And this is... And honestly... I'd be getting to bed at 10, 11 o'clock at night, having just signed and signed and signed. And after doing it for weeks and weeks and weeks, it was just like, this cannot continue. We can't live our life like this. If I spend one day that I'm not at home, the backlog, I'd be going into the early hours of the morning. So little things like that, that people don't even... But that's a massive change in my life. And that then affects the way I prepare for the next game, etc. So we had to bring in... My agent had to get more involved. We employed somebody to actually, on a full-time basis, sort out, you know, these are all inquiries for sponsors. These are all charity inquiries. These are all autographs. Now, Michael can't physically sign all the autographs at thousands and thousands every day. Yeah. So we created sort of a, you know, a bit of a photo, you know, with a printed signature on with, you know, with a thank you for your blowout. Anyway, so... We had to change different bits, but little things like that changed. You know, going in and getting recognised and, you know, I can't even play golf with my dad anymore without five, six, seven, eight paparazzi or rustling in the bush, taking pictures of you on every hole. And it's just like, oh, come on. Now that fades over a little bit of time, which is cool. But it was definitely a change, especially only being 18. You know, you couldn't go to the newsagents without people taking photos, being all over the papers, Michael Owen.
came out and he bought oh wow he bought a dairy milk bar of chocolate like in the newspaper why are you following me you know it's just anyway that was just the life at the time but uh it was it was definitely it definitely changed yeah no and uh i was i've just always curious to hear how you would have to adapt to things like doing that family or anything that must be yeah little things that people probably don't
even realize actually um You know, people obviously assume that you go to training, you eat the right food, you have a sleep, you do this, you do that, you live like a professional. But people don't sort of, you know, allow for things like fan mail, things like sponsorships. you know, filming adverts. God, after the World Cup, I was doing Walker's Crisps. I was doing Umbro Boots. I was doing a calendar shoot. I was doing, I think it was Purcell. I was doing, I had a watch company. I had a Jaguar car deal. I had dozens and dozens and dozens of different sponsorships that all want their two, three, four days a year. When you... bring it all together and all your training and all your traveling and all your games and all your this and that and the other you get a spare day and well you don't get a spare day with all this do you have this conversation with the boss when you're you're no try to hide it from the boss in a way because if he knew if i was playing on a saturday and he knew i was doing a five hour photo shoot or advert on a thursday he probably wouldn't have been happy So I would never do on a Friday, you know, the day before a game. we didn't have enough days in the week to manage the expectation or manage that you know what was being thrown upon me at the time so um because the boss was very much the case of you know relaxing family you know don't be doing this don't be you know but obviously my agent is like no no we need to do this we need to do this so it was it was quite difficult so um so no i didn't I didn't mention it too much, just kept it quiet, secret.
What move on to the Ballon d'Or, winning that in 2001? Yeah. Yeah, 2001 Ballon d'Or. When did you start to get a feeling you were in with a chance of being up there? That is just something that kids dream of, that stuff.
Well, I'm going to tell you, Gregory will probably fall off his chair, but... I didn't know what the Ballon d'Or was. And I knew that there was an award. I knew there was an award to vote for and to crown the best player in the world that year. I knew there was one out there, but I didn't know what it was called. Bear in mind, Gregory, no English player used to win it. We had Kevin Keegan, Sir Stanley Matthews, Sir Bobby Charlton. Sadly, all three of them have passed away, but we hadn't. had an English player since 1979, I think. Was it Keegan, 79?
Yeah.
He won it twice. Was it 78 and 79? It might be. Anyway, it just wasn't in our newspapers and social media wasn't there at the time. So we just didn't promote it because nobody ever won it. And it was always a Spanish player or a French player or Portuguese or whoever it was. And so I had never been told about it. And I remember playing Roma in the UEFA Cup and Phil Thompson, we were never allowed our phones, were we? Like phone ban all the time. Gerard Houllier hated us on phones. Anyway, Phil Thompson went like this, literally 45 minutes before kickoff. I'm like, what's he want? He's already picked the team. He can't sort of change the team now. He said, I've got the boss on the phone because Gerard had just had the heart problem. So he was lying in hospital, but he wanted to tell me. So he said, get out into the corridor. The boss wants to speak to you. And I thought, is he going to give me a team talk? Or what's happening here? And he said, he said, Michael, I want to tell you before you play. I want to give you a boost. You mustn't tell anybody. This is a secret for the next two weeks. It's not been announced yet, but you've won the Ballon d'Or. And I said, boss, what's that? He said, it's the Ballon d'Or. It's the... it's the vote for the best player in the block. And he started explaining it. I was like, oh my word, that's unbelievable. And I was thrilled. Don't get me wrong, I was so happy. But when he first said it to me, I was like, don't know what that is. And so, yeah, so I can't say that leading up to it, I was thinking anything other than just, you know, playing for Liverpool and whatever, you know, there was no campaign to get the votes in or... Like now, you know, everybody's, Yamal is texting and saying, oh, I deserve to win it because of this. And then Bafe saying I should win it because of this. You know, there was no campaign. It was just, I only just found out then.
When I knew he won the Ballon d'Or, it was amazing.
Yeah.
He didn't realize.
No, and the crazy thing is, on the continent back in the day, when I went to Real Madrid, it's the only thing they were saying, Michael, I win the Ballon d'Or. Every time they say my name, it follows with Ballon d'Or. It's such a... It's such a thing. And it's such a thing, don't get me wrong, in the UK now. Now people know about it. And obviously, we've got maybe a chance this year with the likes of Harry Kane. But now everybody knows about it. And social media does a great job as well. But at the time...
Until that phone call, I didn't know what it was.
Who were you up against for that year?
Second was Raul. Oliver Kahn was up there. But of course, Henri's and Zidane's were in the... It was not a World Cup year. It was 2001, so it was obviously an in-between year. We had won all those. We had won five trophies in one year. England had had a really good season, probably highlighted by the Germany 5-1. So yeah, it was obviously a really good generation. I mean all the great French players at the time that had just won the World Cup in 98. And then you had some, you know, R9 was around and you had your Del Pierros and your Totties and Shevchenkos and Batastutas, all those great players at the the time so yeah it was a it was a great era of football in fact I came fourth in it in 1998 and I didn't even know. But when I looked at the lists after I'd won it, I thought, oh my word, I came fourth in 98. But I think that when you look at the players, and I've looked at all the lists of over the generations, when you look at the players that were in the top 20, 98, 99, oh my word, you've never seen anything like it. You've never seen anything like it. It's unbelievable, the players around them. Gerard Houllier was... so proud. Like, I couldn't believe, I was thinking, he was, he was almost like emotional that one of his players had won the Ballon. It, and obviously it's, you know, it's a French award back in the day, you know, and all the rest of it. And I guess that he's been part of that federation and obviously part of French football for so many years. It meant so much to him and his family and the way his family came in to, to see my family, you know, after the, the, after I had won it at Anfield in the players lounge and the emotion from him and I couldn't I couldn't believe it but it's when Gregory says things like that now it it sort of resonates yeah and to this day I mean it actually means more to me every day that goes past yeah you know Greg's right when I when I won when I won it there's that much in your career you know three days I lifted up the trophy at Anfield but I'm about to play Derby County in the league you know I'm like got to score got to win forget that trophy I'll look at that after and then you get off the you know and you take it home and you put it in your cabinet but then two days later you're playing against somebody else and football is like that it's just every other day you know and if I don't score the next week it's like oh Michael Owen how did he win the Ballon d'Or so you're constantly your mind is the next thing so it's better for me nowadays I'm not competing against anybody. I can look at that trophy. I can look back at the players I played with, the great times, the goals we scored, the trophies we won, and I can be really proud of it. So to this day, it means more to me today than it has in any point of my life, really. I just appreciate it more and more and more.
And where does that sit? In the house, up in the wall somewhere?
You've got to say it's secret.
Ah, right there, feeling off. I will tell you. Cut up the house. I had a... No, I had a cabinet made 20 years ago and all my trophies and medals are all in that cabinet. It's right in the middle. It's at the top in the middle and it's on a little plinth that just slowly spins around all day. There's nothing else that spins, just that one.
I am curious, there is like a ball ballon d'or or other ex-ballon d'or? Do you have any chat with them before the vote?
No, but you get invited every year to go.
The ceremony?
Yes. So I'm going to go this year. I've been before. I presented Cristiano Ronaldo at the Bernabeu with it. And I've been to one in Paris as well on the Eiffel Tower. But this year it's in London. So I'm going to go to it this year as well.
Why not? D-mate out.
Exactly. I've not been to many, but I'll go to this one.
I want to talk a bit about leaving Liverpool and going to Real Madrid. How did that come about? Were you just wanting to challenge yourself abroad, or was there Liverpool needed money?
I don't think either. I mean, it transpired that, yeah, like challenging yourself to go abroad, that's one of the sort of the reasons in your head. But at the time, I never, ever thought I would live. Liverpool. Me, Jamie Carragher, Steven Gerrard came through the ranks. It was just, this is our club. But Gerrard, Julien, left and Rafa Benitez had came in and we were on pre-season tour getting to know the new manager and my phone went we had finished a train we'd finished a training session Jamie Carragher was lying on that bed and I was on the bed over here and my agent phoned me and he used to phone me every two or three days I didn't think it was anything you know and I he said can you speak and I was like well Cara's my best mate he you know he's yeah yeah yeah I'm free yeah in between training sessions. And he said, there's a big interest in you from Real Madrid. They want to sign you. I was like, oh, my word, you're joking. And he said, yeah. I said, right, OK. And, you know, and what's, you know, go on, explain. And, well, blah, And he just started. So I spoke to the president. And he, you know, this and that and the other. So I said, fine, OK, put the phone down. And Cara obviously had heard the conversation. He just looked at me and went, don't.
Nope.
Don't do it. And I went, why not? He says, mate, they've got Ronaldo, they've got Raul, they've got Morientes, they're buying players all the time. He says, you're like the star here. You play every week. Fans love you and this and that and the other. You're not going to break in ahead of R9 and Raul. Raul's their golden child and R9 is the best player in the world. I just don't think you should. But him saying that, that's red rag to a bull for me. That's like, you don't think I can be better than them type of attitude. That's just my, what? I will show you. Anyway, for the next week, 10 days maybe, I couldn't get it out of my head. I was thinking, no, don't do it. Cara's right. Everything's great here. Everything's perfect. You live at home, Liverpool. great club, the fans love you and all the rest of it. And then the next day I'd wake up and think, do you know what? If you say no to that, you will regret it. This will be your only chance to have a move, just a move and to see something different in your life, to live in a different country, to speak another language, different food, different weather, that white kit, that stadium, new league, the players. It's the Galactico era. I mean, you had Zidane and Raul and Ronaldo and Roberto Carlos and Figo and Beckham. I mean, it was an unbelievable era. And I thought, you can always come back. You can always come back, but you'll never get a chance to go again. And then the next day I'd be thinking, no, no, no, don't do it. Don't be stupid. And it was just two every day. And it was getting me down a little bit. Obviously, it's a lovely problem to have, but it really wasn't. I wish the problem wasn't there.
Yeah.
in many ways at the time. Eventually, I just, I met Rafa Benitez because the club needed a decision and I met Rafa Benitez and I just said to him, I just feel as if I need to go and give it a try. But obviously, I almost want to shake your hand and say, can I come back in one year or two years?
Yeah.
So that's what we did. I sort of shook the hand of Rick Parry, who was our chief exec at the time, and said, you know, I know we can't put it into a contract maybe, but, you know. I don't want to leave. I want to come back. So we all agreed that that would be the case. I'd go and have a crack at it. So I cried all the way to the airport. I didn't want to leave Liverpool, but I did want to go and experience something. It was my decision and my decision only. I wasn't forced out. I wasn't held to ransom by it. It was all perfectly amicable. But I just thought, I've just got to try it. And that was the story, really. We'll all have times in our lives, you know.
Was your family there?
Yeah, but only my wife. And I had a one-year-old daughter as well at the time. So it was quite difficult. It was difficult for them, really difficult for them, because we lived in a hotel for the first five months and I was away all the time and my wife, different, no friends. It was quite difficult for her. But I've no, you know, people always ask me. do you regret going to a like leaving liverpool going to real madrid i'm like everybody has these moments in their life where they can go to that job or that job or marry this person or do this or buy that car or whatever we all have decisions all the time you know and mine was just a career decision that i wasn't changing jobs yeah in terms of you know i was still playing football just a different team happens all the time you know no it's like it was real madrid you've you've You've got to do it. Even, you know, the likes of Jamie Carrey that wanted me or saying don't do it, you know, they can accept that. Come on. It's real.
Exactly.
The quality of the players, Michael. Could you speak about this? Because when you play with these unbelievable players.
Yeah.
But the quality, you know, in training, the quality in games, the technique and everything.
Yeah.
It must be so.
Oh, it was an incredible generation. And the difficult thing was Barcelona had a great generation as well at the time with Etu and Ronaldinho and all their great midfield players. So it was just an... Unbelievable time. It was when Spanish football was the best. Those two teams were so much better than everyone else, I think, around that generation. In fact, both teams continued to go and dominate Europe after that. But the players themselves, yeah. I mean, the one player that stands out for me was Zidane. He was probably in the peak of his career. I mean, the speed, the strength, the technique, just a genius. It was just pure, just beautiful to watch him. He was just so elegant. If a ball comes to me and I want to go that way and it's bouncing up here, I think, right, chest it down and take it with my right foot, all in one nice movement. Just before we'd be coming, he would be looking and he would just sort of bump. In one movement, he would be running at top speed. but also have chested it down into everything that we normal people could do in two or three touches. He was just doing it in one and just natural and graceful, just amazing. To either foot, you know, manipulating the ball. I mean, I was good with a right foot, I could cruif turn or chop or this or that, but on my left, he could do everything with both feet. Just genius.
What do you see now with nationality? You know, we had a few things, you know, from the journalist.
Yeah.
He's still playing with the boys,
you know. He's just got the touch. He's like a magician. Yeah. There's not many people that have just got that. You know, Messi would have it. Zidane would have it. There's not many that just have got that. The rest of us will have to try and work on it. I mean, R9 was, like, in my opinion, the greatest of all time, in my opinion. But because he only for a short period of time, because then he got injured and a little bit like my career, but to the lesser extent. But, you know, I was very good, but then got injured and then I was just OK. But Ronaldo was still a great player, but he wasn't. So obviously I was privileged to play alongside him, but he wasn't the player of when he was 20. So he was great. And you could see in bits that he was just a genius as well. But of course, his physical, his knee was just... always preventing him from being like he was as a young player. But Figue, I tell you who I loved playing with was Guti. Guti was a dream for someone like me because every time he just wanted to play the killer pass. Zidane wouldn't want to give the ball away. So unless the ball was on, he would keep it and pass. But Guti was like, as soon as he got it, head up. Where's Michael Owen? Where's Ronaldo? Over the top. He just loved these passes, risky passes all the time. So I loved playing with Guti. It was great times. It was great fun. And, you know, I really enjoyed it. As I say, my family, they struggled a little bit and I always wanted to come back to the Premier League. You know, I'm a homeboy, really. I like being around my family and whatever, and the comforts of home. But I had such a good experience. I loved it.
Yeah. Nice. Ticked that box.
Yeah.
And then from there, over to Newcastle. Is it true? I don't know if this is bollocks or not, but you used to fly in a helicopter to training for Newcastle.
It's half true. Like anything in the newspapers, they always get like 10% right or 20% right. No, I'd obviously been away from home for a year and I wanted... Newcastle to work. First of all, I nearly signed for Liverpool, but Newcastle doubled the bid and Madrid would only send me to Newcastle, et cetera, et cetera. Anyway, long story short, I signed for Newcastle, but Newcastle's three and a half hours. One of the whole reasons for coming back to Newcastle was to be closer to home. I wanted my mum and dad to come and see me. I one of my wife, you know, my wife lived up with me with my daughter. We had our second child, son, while we were there. But I wanted to be able to, if we get Wednesday off, I wanted to have the flexibility of being able to go home after training on Tuesday, spend Tuesday afternoon at home. be here at Manor House Stables, big passion of mine, business that was growing. Then I'd be home all day Wednesday and then I could fly up at sort of eight o'clock, land at nine o'clock. We didn't have to be in till 10 o'clock. So it was brilliant. Match days, my mum and dad could fly up and watch me. I didn't want, you know, ageing parents driving up three and a half hours or every single, you know, we sometimes played twice a week.
Yeah.
So I just thought, and it... It's one of those things. In hindsight, you think, I shouldn't have done it because of what people say, what people think. But then part of me thinks, you know what, I don't care what people say and think. I only did it for mainly my family so we could see each other more. My mum and dad and brothers and sisters could come up and watch me. It was quite hard in Madrid not seeing my family for a whole year. To say that I used to go in and out of training every day is rubbish. I mean, it would basically be, if we had one game on a Saturday, let's say, one game on a Saturday every week, we'd have Sunday off and we'd have Wednesday off. So after the game on Saturday, we would fly home and I'd spend all of Sunday home and fly back up Monday. I'd spend Monday and Tuesday there, fly back Tuesday afternoon, spend Wednesday at home and then fly up Thursday morning, spend Thursday, Friday, Saturday up there. And I had a house there.
Yeah.
bought a house there, lived there for four years. You know, so, and not always would we have only one game in a day, in which case I'd not fly home. But it was just a really handy way of seeing my family a lot more. But obviously, from my image point of view, it didn't help. Because as soon as you get injured or you don't play, Newcastle fans think, oh, he doesn't even like it here. He flies home every day and all that rubbish. It's just not true. So that's the... It leaves you open to criticism.
Yeah.
And that was the difficult thing.
You're loving Liam.
Well, I know. And if I had the same thing again, would I do it? I don't know. I mean, I should say, absolutely I would. Absolutely I would. I want my mum and dad to come and watch me play football. What's wrong with, you know, what's wrong in that? So part of me thinks I probably would do the same again, but some of me thinks, you know what? You just leave yourself so open to people creating stories, saying this, saying that. It's just like, oh. And any helicopter. I mean, I'd be training. And then the helicopter would fly over and everyone would say, oh, no, he's still here. You know what I mean? So, you know, but if you're living in Newcastle, if you're just in your garden and you're a Newcastle fan, you see a helicopter, you think, oh, there's Michael Owen going home again. It's like, it's not. I'm here. But do you know what I mean? It just leaves you open to criticism.
I want to move quickly on to... Man United, so running out of time here, we could talk for hours. Man United, was there any doubt about going there just because of the Liverpool connection?
Yeah, I'd be lying if I said there wasn't something thinking, oh my word, this is not going to go down well. But when I left Newcastle, the first person that I contacted was Jamie Carragher and Steven Gerrard and said, do us a favour, go and speak to Brendan. Brendan Rodgers was the manager at the time. Go and speak to Brendan. I'm on a free. And he was signing David Ngog at the time. And he already had, I don't know who was there. Was it Torres or Suarez? Anyway, he already had a top centre forward, obviously. But I still wanted to go back home. I always wanted to go from Madrid back to Liverpool. that couldn't happen and then I got it inserted into my Newcastle contract that after one year I could go to Liverpool but then I did my knee in the World Cup so at every stage I wanted to go back to Liverpool and I don't make any apologies for that Liverpool's my club came through the ranks that's how I feel but obviously when Brendan Rodgers then says no like I can't retire. I've got to go somewhere. I'd done the abroad experience, wanted to stay in the Premier League. Everton wanted to sign me and so did Hull. Now, with all due respect, Hull were a team at the bottom of the league at the time. Everton, I just thought, I can't go to Everton. I mean, as much as I supported them when I was a young boy, Liverpool fans are going to hate me. So I'm having this summer thinking, what am I going to do? here, I've got Everton, do I go abroad again? I really don't want to go abroad again. And I was just waiting and waiting, hoping something would come. And then Nicky Buck phoned me, who I was playing with at Newcastle. He said, Mo, the gaffer's going to call you. And I was like... Who was the gaffer? You know, because we had lots of gaffers at Newcastle. He goes, Sir Alex. I'm like, what? He says, Man United want to sign you. Sir Alex is going to call you. Stay by your phone. So I'm like, oh, my word. My head started spinning thinking, right, well, now I've got Hull. I'm going to rule that out. I've got Everton or Man United. Well, Liverpool fans are not going to be happy either way.
Yeah.
But they were the options. I didn't have any other options. And then I thought to myself, do you know what? Liverpool didn't want me.
Yeah.
Like. I've given myself to them at every stage. I've even got it in my contract at Newcastle to go back. At every stage, I could have gone back, but the managers never wanted me back. So it's like, what do you want me to do? I can't do any more than... So at that point, it's like, right, well, do you know what? You've got to play at the top of your game. You've got to play for as good a team as you can. You can live at home. You know all the players anyway. I played for England with Wes Brown and Paul Scholes and the Neville brothers and all. I knew half the team and I just thought, yeah, I'm going to get a bit of stick. But you know what? When I came back to Anfield for Newcastle, I got a bit of stick. So I thought, well, do you know what? A few Liverpool fans are booing me anyway. I'm not exactly their favourite person for leaving in the first place. So Manchester United. Great club, great manager, great players, can win things, can live at home. Why am I having to say sorry here? Why are you sitting here thinking about everybody else and hurting other people's feelings? They don't care about me anymore. So I thought, you know what? It is a no-brainer. I've just got to do it.
And first game of the season against Birmingham City.
You told me that.
Against me. What did he do? He scored a goal. Where's my new...
Birmingham, that's right. Yeah,
yeah,
yeah. But it was obviously difficult.
First game of the season.
Yeah. It was obviously difficult for me because, you know, it wasn't just like what Liverpool fans were thinking. But obviously Manchester United fans, they, you know, I'd scored lots of goals against Manchester United over the years.
Yeah.
So they wouldn't have liked me back in the day. But obviously, so then you're thinking I've got to try, you know, I've got to win them over. I've got to play well. And obviously... I think it was the third game or the fourth game of the season. We played Manchester City and then I scored that goal in the 96th or 97th. And that was just, right, I'm away now. Fans are happy. And even now, Manchester United fans will always remember that goal. So that was good that I did something quite big early in the season, early in my career at Manchester United.
What a career.
Yeah.
You can't be proud of that.
No, exactly. We are out of time and I know you're a busy man. So thank you very much for coming on. It's been an absolute pleasure.
No, my pleasure. Good to see my old teammate again. Yeah, when he messaged me, I thought, yeah, I've got to do that. So, no, great to meet you. Thanks so much. Merci, monsieur.
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