Louis Theroux's Manosphere, Love Is Blind x Pilates & Zendaya and Tom Holland I House of Gossip | House of Gossip

Description

Lá Fhéile Pádraig sona duit!☘️

Girls...'are you well?' - this phrase needs to be buried ladies! Clara has something to say about Zendaya and Tom Holland that is so fair. The new Louis Theroux documentary 'Inside the Manoshpere' is sending everyone into a toxic depression but is top of the roster this week. Jaaysus it sounds desperate. Sophie doesn't watch Love Is Blind but she came across a bonkers situation and needs to discuss it.

Happy St. Patricks' Day to all of our Irish listeners 💚

Recco of the week is Like a Prayer Remix

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Transcription

Speaker #0
Hello Good morning, good evening, good afternoon, good day, good morrow and good night. It is House of Gossip, your weekly dose of pop culture nourishment brought to you by me, Clara Kavanagh and you, Sophie Lyons. We are very giddy to gossip with you. We've got a lot of telly stuff to get through this week. But before we get into any of that, so how are you?
Speaker #1
I'm fabulous. We're recording on a Friday, which always makes it nice. A bit more giggly.
Speaker #0
Friday's in the air. It's sunny for once.
Speaker #1
I know. I was actually, sorry, but I was on a line bike earlier. And it's like, it's nice sky out, even though it's a bit cold. And I had Silver Springs Fleetwood Mac on.
Speaker #0
Woo
Speaker #1
You know the one? I've been done to the ceiling now. And I was going on my line bike through the thing and I was like, this is living.
Speaker #0
I love those little moments where you're like, God, life's great.
Speaker #1
Oh my God. I was like one handing it. Whoa. Yeah, I know. And I was like, this is living right now.
Speaker #0
I love that.
Speaker #1
How are you, Gazza?
Speaker #0
I'm great. Very good.
Speaker #1
I'm great. I'm perfect.
Speaker #0
I don't know if I had a nature moment like that this week, but I'm enjoying the...
Speaker #1
Stretch in the evenings.
Speaker #0
Spring in the air. Stretch. The grand stretch. It's very good. So what are you, Jador, you're testing from this week?
Speaker #1
I actually had it like really early on in the week. Or no, sorry. I think it was just after we recorded our last one. And I was like, I need to write this down. Oh, intriguing. It annoys me and I forget about it all the time.
Speaker #0
Oh, me too.
Speaker #1
People need to stop saying the following phrase when they're saying a story about themselves, implying that they're like a bit unhinged when they're like, and then like I had four vodka soda limes. Like, am I well? Someone said it. It doesn't even matter who said it to me because I can't actually remember. But when they said it, it triggered that I was like, wait, I forgot that I that needs to stop. society. It's so annoying. Are we well? I think it's especially in a double accent. It's annoying.
Speaker #0
Yeah, that irks me.
Speaker #1
It's so annoying, isn't it? Whoever said it to me, I was like trying to listen to the story and I was like, it's so overused.
Speaker #0
It is.
Speaker #1
And I think American origin.
Speaker #0
Am I well?
Speaker #1
Am I well? It's so annoying.
Speaker #0
If you want to be a bit of a kook, be a kook. You don't need to say, am I well? Like, let your freak flag fly.
Speaker #1
But I get what they're trying to say, but I think just the phrase, the phrase has gone too colloquial now and it's so annoying.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
It's like implying you're a ledge. Isn't it?
Speaker #0
What petition to stop?
Speaker #1
Yeah, like I ended up staying over at his for like two days. Am I well? Yeah, you're fine.
Speaker #0
You're grand, sweetie.
Speaker #1
Yeah.
Speaker #0
God, I'm going to notice that now.
Speaker #1
someone just said it just clicked that i was like it's such an annoying phrase it's like when someone says uh freshen up i like twitch i hate that phrase wait put that in a sentence oh will we go home for 20 minutes and freshen up and then go out like that makes me feel sick i think i just don't like it i'm like just say i'm gonna take a shower or i'm gonna change stop saying freshen up it's gross laughs oh I love when phrases kind of annoy you and you're like they just make you feel oh I have so many phrases and words that annoy me or like when someone's like can we grab a bite oh my number one is we had such a nice meal what's
Speaker #0
a meal that bothers you using the word meal my sister got me onto this we had a lovely meal number one when you say meal it removes like the context I don't know did you have brunch brekkie lunch dinner whatever it's like oh we had a great meal there it's like what just say dinner say lunch meal
Speaker #1
I feel like meal adds to the food so it's more like it made it more of an event you meal makes it sound more glamorous and kind of yeah like you know if your mum comes home and be like oh we had a lovely meal but like I think meal deal I think happy meal oh
Speaker #0
I think gruel meal drives me insane
Speaker #1
I think prison.
Speaker #0
We had a lovely meal there. No, a meal drives me insane.
Speaker #1
I also hate the phrase sing for your supper.
Speaker #0
Oh, that's very Oliver Twist.
Speaker #1
When you said grill, I heard supper.
Speaker #0
Yes.
Speaker #1
I don't like the word supper either.
Speaker #0
Supper.
Speaker #1
Or in the States when they're like, can I get a couple of sodas? And you're like, tell me how many is a couple? Because it's not two to you.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
Tell me what soda.
Speaker #0
And they also say, I'm going to do the carb salad.
Speaker #1
I'm going to do a platter of the chicken fingers.
Speaker #0
It's not do, it's I'm going to have.
Speaker #1
I'll do the burger. medium well what it's so wrong semantics ladies yeah anyway am i well needs to stop sorry that's how we got here what's yours your test i'm gonna take the luxury and do two number one thank you number
Speaker #0
one is thank you so much for everyone's messages last week and the love better oh guys are broke the internet baby news um it was just so lovely so thank you to everyone taking the time to message it was There, be cute. And my micro-judge test is, every time I see a headline on it, I just roll my eyes and scroll by. I don't give a flying fuck that Zendaya and Tom Holland, Spider-Man guy, got married or not.
Speaker #1
I really agree with you.
Speaker #0
What is all this hype? If you want to get married in private, do it in private. Stop getting law-wrote your stylist to say stuff. Stop... doing stuff when you're wearing Carrie Bradshaw's dress and looking phenomenal. It's just you're actually creating more attention and more hype by not saying anything. It's driving me insane.
Speaker #1
Stop trying to keep everything a secret because like I don't think that many people care.
Speaker #0
A hundred percent. And it's like, oh, we don't want anyone to know. But like, oh, let's create all this intrigue.
Speaker #1
The photos are released though.
Speaker #0
Were they AI? I don't know. I saw them. were they I think they were she's fabulous whatever but I don't have a connection to either of them no at all I'm not a euphoria girly I tried one episode of Depress Me bummed me out so bad it's really depressing oh god I just couldn't and him he's just a he's just a little pip pip squeak
Speaker #1
I actually was like you're not pip squeak did you he's such a pip squeak yeah I just don't care I'm like cool they got married well done
Speaker #0
best of luck guys loads of people have gotten married and said nothing and it's just been like a we did that on our own like say margot robbie i know her husband isn't famous but like you never even know that they had a kid they're on red carpets a bit together but it's just like not the focus it's like you wanted to be it's the false made out of it i agree she's
Speaker #1
kind of untouchable and i feel like her team around her it's very intense very Thank you.
Speaker #0
And the hype around her.
Speaker #1
You know, like really, she's just an actress in her. Sorry, not just an actress, but really, she's an actress in her
Speaker #0
20s. It reminds me of the way Harry Styles is treated. It's like, this is like the future of rock and roll. You know, he is a mega global, the next Bowie. And it's like, yeah, OK, Harry Styles, you're great. Love your clothes and your dance moves are to die for.
Speaker #1
And I still like him.
Speaker #0
I still think he's great.
Speaker #1
Yeah, but it's like this beloved. untouchable force feels around them that I'm like okay.
Speaker #0
Because Law Roach her stylist who is so much fun on Drag Race I must say what a sassy queen.
Speaker #1
He seems like such a diva.
Speaker #0
But Law doesn't do anything they're a real media mastermind nothing is an accident. Law first saying like oh like leaking the whole marriage story like that was intentional that wasn't a slip of the tongue. So it makes me feel like it's just a big PR plan.
Speaker #1
Oh, of course it was. But sorry, didn't he quit?
Speaker #0
Yeah, like spare me. Stop. Stop quitting and starting again.
Speaker #1
Are you retired?
Speaker #0
But my only client is Zendaya. That's it.
Speaker #1
Oh.
Speaker #0
It's just all this weird hype. It's like, it's just you're doing it for attention. I'm saying that you don't want attention. It's like Meghan and Harry. Like, you know, we don't want any attention. We want to leave the royal family. And then you're signing like Spotify, Netflix deals all the time. It's like. You do want the attention, though. You do want it. Oh,
Speaker #1
of course. It's just like control.
Speaker #0
You're on your privacy tour. Wasn't that the South Park joke?
Speaker #1
Who said it? And they were like, was it Julia Roberts? Anyway, but they were just like, if you don't want to be seen outside a restaurant, you don't have to be seen outside a restaurant. They were like, there's ways to go in the back. You don't have to go to the restaurant. If you want to go to the restaurant, you go in the back. All this different stuff. And like, you can try that way.
Speaker #0
Look at Adele. You never see Adele. She's always in the back, goes out the back doors and through the kitchens.
Speaker #1
She's so cool.
Speaker #0
You know, you don't have to be seen. Sometimes people are like, oh, oh my God.
Speaker #1
I think it's half the game, isn't it?
Speaker #0
Yeah. It's hype machine, I think.
Speaker #1
Yeah, I don't like it either. I think that's a very fair test.
Speaker #0
Like Jay-Z and Beyonce got married in private and like referred to it like 10 years later. That's all you gotta do. If you actually want a privacy, that's what you do.
Speaker #1
Also, that's the fact these guys are so young. What age are they? Like 22?
Speaker #0
I think they're going to be free. I'm going to Google this right now. I think they're freakishly old.
Speaker #1
Freakishly old?
Speaker #0
I want to say freakishly old. I think like, I think like late
Speaker #1
20s. What do you mean freakishly old?
Speaker #0
I think we think they're 21, but they're not. Oh,
Speaker #1
sorry.
Speaker #0
Yeah, both 29.
Speaker #1
Oh, they just appear very childlike. don't they yeah yeah i don't care i couldn't agree with you more no hate no shade i love love go for it ladies but stop trying to go oh my god no just leave us alone leave us alone jiggery i'm like they do seem like a cute little couple they seem kind of bro-y yeah she seems like a bro which i like and he seems nice yeah anyway fine by me like when people come up to me in public and they're like i'm just like guys i'm just having dinner let's chill out i'll talk to you later quick pack and we're gone don't you not like to just join in and be like i know i can't believe it's me either oh i love me you must do that when you're famous for the first bit are they going oh my god and then you've been like and then it must get old so quick when people like you're walking somewhere and then they're like you must be like oh my god oh gee oh sorry that was a really micro one but i'm glad you agreed to me Oh my god, totally. I didn't know what you were going to say. I believe that you watched something that I haven't watched yet and I want to watch it. I also got feedback from two ladies last night saying they watched it and it was really depressing. And one of them was like, we're on a downward spiral.
Speaker #0
Yeah. They're not wrong.
Speaker #1
Would you like to introduce the gazzer?
Speaker #0
On that beautiful note, Louis Theroux, in his Netflix debut, has done the Louis Theroux Manosphere documentary, Hour and a Half. So he's back doing documentaries, back of the box. He decided to investigate the topic of Manosphere after he started learning about Andrew Tay from his sons. And he was like, who is this guy? He was kind of saying at the beginning or in interviews or something that it was like he was worried that like... these repeated misogynistic jokes, stopping jokes when they go unchallenged and like, hang on, can we explore this a little bit? So he starts exploring the manosphere, which generally means like an online community promoting extreme anti-feminist views, misogyny and hyper-masculinity. So like all these gendered roles. It also goes down a bit of a weird anti-Semitic route. It goes into a lot of different places. But I must say, because I feel like Louis hasn't really done a documentary like this in a while. It's a real, what do they call it? Like return divorce or return to your tour to force. I'm getting confused.
Speaker #1
Is that what it's called? I think, I think it's, it is a tour.
Speaker #0
But I don't think, I mean it like a rich, anyway, he's, he's returned. It reminded me a lot of the old Louis Theroux documentaries in the sense that there's a lot of awkward pauses. People just hang themselves out to dry. by their own words like he says very little. Some of the guests and like the influencers that he talks to start changing their tune when they figure out like because they don't know who Louis Theroux is and then they their community starts being like he's gonna make you look like a clown and then the the whole vibe changes. It just reminded me a lot of the old amazing Louis Theroux documentary so I think it is.
Speaker #1
Oh yeah.
Speaker #0
Like I did really like the interview series that he did with like Stormzy. I loved that. It was a Judi Dench and Joan Collins. That was really good. With his podcast and everything, sometimes I think, how do I put this? He was almost becoming like, not a caricature of himself, but in a like, I've got a whole new production team. We're going to give my next chapter of my career a big new lease of life. But it was kind of. overworking something it lost its authenticity for me a little bit and i don't really know why but then this is actually brilliant it's it's really well done really well made like yes it is really scary though because i agree with your gal policy watchers it is it's just it's like getting a peek into somebody else's algorithm and being like what the fuck is this it's so weird because on one side Peace.
Speaker #1
You hear all these things like feminism now and, you know, not as many women are getting married and having kids and senior leadership, team roles. And you can hear all that. And then if you and I are like, just like women in the world.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
We know that it's still very much man led. Yeah. CEOs and C-suites. Boys clubs completely. So it just depends on who you're talking to.
Speaker #0
Yeah, it does. And who's in your echo chamber in a way?
Speaker #1
Now people, as an example, like stuff like trans rights. That wasn't a conversation like maybe 10 years ago. And now, depending on who you talk to and where you are, it's a very big thing. Stuff like pronouns and using correct pronouns and all this kind of stuff.
Speaker #0
One guy, Sneeko, in the documentary goes, they're putting trans hormones in the water. So if you drink the water, it'll make you want to be trans. like Sure. Yeah, that's that's how that happens, pal. It's like full of conspiracy.
Speaker #1
Imagine you and I talking to a few meatheads.
Speaker #0
Because there was that study just off the back of what you said. There was research that suggested that there's a growing support for traditional gender hierarchies, with 31 percent of Gen Z men agreeing that a wife should obey her husband. And millennials, it's 29%, Gen X, 21. And boomers is 13%.
Speaker #1
13% of boomers think wives should...
Speaker #0
That there should be a gender hierarchy.
Speaker #1
Okay, and what are Gen Z saying? What percent?
Speaker #0
They're 31% believing that a wife should obey. But I also think, sorry, with the boomers, they've lived longer with women and they've gone through more with women. They've had more life experiences, like say, become parents. or, you know, seen different movements happen and things like that. I think with the Gen Z thinking this, they're also more malleable and they're younger and they don't have the same life experience. Like a lot of the fans of this documentary go as young as 13, 10. So they can obviously think that, but they don't have the life experience to have shared that with women.
Speaker #1
Yeah, like you wonder what a boomer at that age that the Gen Zs are voting. What would they say?
Speaker #0
Exactly. And like a boomer will have more female friends, that kind of thing. And they also don't have the internet that would be effectively brainwashing them into this like manosphere.
Speaker #1
Well, yeah, because their algorithm. But they're also saying Gen Z is the first generation ever to not outsmart its predecessor.
Speaker #0
Shut up.
Speaker #1
Like intelligence wise. Yeah. So every generation before us like. Gen X would have surpassed a boomer in like, I don't know, general intelligence level, something like that. And so forth. And Gen Z is the first one not to. Oh,
Speaker #0
God.
Speaker #1
I don't know if we have Gen Z listeners.
Speaker #0
Well, if we do, guten tag. Velkommen.
Speaker #1
But like just the way they have technology and stuff like the way they've had it so far obviously makes everything so different.
Speaker #0
And as well, when you've like AI helping you do your homework. But I think it comes down to like loneliness and like wanting to like find a community and whether that be the manosphere or a bot, you know, people just want to connect maybe. Yeah, it's interesting. But like with this manosphere, they do go to an extreme and they're like whatever the this kind of performance they put on, they think they're like, we need to teach young men how to be proper boys kind of thing.
Speaker #1
What's a proper boy?
Speaker #0
That's where it goes back all the like Gender hierarchies, extreme masculinity, anti-LGBTQ+, this red pill ideology.
Speaker #1
What's a red pill ideology?
Speaker #0
I never thought you'd ask. It is. So this term gets used a lot in the documentary and like in, I suppose, Manispheres. But it comes from The Matrix. And it's a belief that they've discovered hidden truths about society. And it includes things like rejection of feminism, distrust of mainstream media. and conspiracy style thinking. Like some of the, it goes into like a quite a dark thing. Like when something's wrong, they get so anti-Semitic and they just like blame Jews.
Speaker #1
Will it make me angry, the documentary? I think it might make me angry.
Speaker #0
You can view it and just go like, I'm trying to like be a bit more balanced because I don't think like, I feel like men and women are pitted against each other so much. And like, we can't expect women to fix. gender equality and saying we can't expect men to fit it either we have to fix it like together so i don't think like i don't like hate on these men too much because there needs to be a few more olive branches but i think it's scary in the sense that of like how much influence they have they dominate some of these guys like so there's one guy hs ticky tocky and his little he's the kind of batman and to his robin is this uh guy called ed matthews How they make their money basically is trading advice, which is very questionable. Louis invests £500 and like most of it's gone by the end. But HS Tiki Taki takes a cut. Then there's paid telegram groups because they're basically banned off loads of, it's not as regulated and they're banned off most of the other sites. And then they sell explicit and controversial content there or on these other sites. So they do like, he's doing like seven hour live streams every day. And like some of them include them like beating people up because they think they're catching predators. So they think they have to take the law upon themselves. Yeah, they they beat up one guy and then they...
Speaker #1
Predators of women.
Speaker #0
Yeah. Or if there's someone like if they think he's a pedo, if someone's a pedo, like they just beat him. There's two times that you see him beating people up. And then he's like also like hiding in Dubai and hiding in L.A. because he's avoiding...
Speaker #1
Yeah, sorry. What countries is it in? It looks sunny in the trailer.
Speaker #0
So H.S. Tiki Taki and you're his... Robin guy his names are so they live in Marbella because he was hiding out from a driving offence which he ended up getting off on and then he's also in a And then he talks to a few American ones, which are in like New York, Miami. So, yes, very sunny.
Speaker #1
Right.
Speaker #0
Like your man H.S. Tiki Taki. It's interesting because he starts and ends with him. And he's the one of the influencers where he thinks he's getting this like profile piece by this guy. And then all his followers were like, he's going to make you look like a clown. And then he completely changes because like at the beginning of the documentary, he's there like, I disowned my son if he came out as gay. I'd disown my daughter if she did OnlyFans, even though he owns an influencer company of OnlyFans influencers.
Speaker #1
You're talking about like hyper, me man, you woman, aren't you?
Speaker #0
And like, there's one point where they go to work out in Marbella and like, they're all in like Porto Banus. It's like, God, I haven't seen that place since I was like 16.
Speaker #1
So many weird things go on in Porto Banus.
Speaker #0
I know, it's a bit like a real dark black hole.
Speaker #1
Drug families, yeah, yeah.
Speaker #0
And. He starts talking down the camera and then Louis is like, hello, I'm over here. But he's just so used to social.
Speaker #1
I saw that bit and he's like, I'm over here.
Speaker #0
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's mad. It's just crazy. So like, and he openly says like he doesn't believe he's he just I'm a salesman and I don't believe what I'm selling. Like they're selling a scam or selling this like a dream that doesn't exist.
Speaker #1
Wait, he's a salesman and he doesn't believe what he's selling.
Speaker #0
No, he's like, if my mom heard what I was saying. She'd be really angry at me.
Speaker #1
But does he believe what he's saying?
Speaker #0
I think they just do it for the money because...
Speaker #1
The money from who?
Speaker #0
So they get the money from the trading advice and signing up to these channels where they sell the content. So the more clickbaity it is, the more viral it goes, the more fans you get and the more people will pay for it.
Speaker #1
Right.
Speaker #0
So it's almost like it's like this performance. But anytime like Louis questions them on it, they completely dissolve. Like they can't back it up really. It's like it's really interesting. who's the like higher power andrew tate probably he's the kingpin donald trump probably this is so weird i don't think i can watch that it's very strange that's so sad yeah he's like call me a misogynist call me a homophobe or a scammer i'm all of those things like he doesn't care at the end they're they fly out to la and he's like i'm gonna get my own back on louis through it's a great scene the mum's in there then the mum gets real feisty with louis and then he thinks he's getting like the upper hand but it's like, I don't know. I don't know if you are a HFC.
Speaker #1
That's really sad.
Speaker #0
And like at its core, a lot of these men have like, have had really difficult childhoods. Like all of them have a backstory. One was nearly put in foster care. Sullivan was raised by his single mum. His dad is an ex-English rugby player, I think. And so mum working long hours. There's a real case of fatherlessness, lack of a male role model. And then like an anger that like, you know, your mom has to be your mom and your dad. And she's not there for you in like the way that she should be. And it makes you kind of think that like, like men just need to go to therapy. I don't know. Like you can subscribe.
Speaker #1
I was just thinking like, get these guys some therapy.
Speaker #0
But I think it's easier to get when you're in that kind of more vulnerable state and you're looking for a connection, you're looking for a tribe. It's easier to join something like this and get a bit like. radicalized to a point oh yeah confronting the pain your issues or the trauma that you've gone through or blaming the system like you know because that would make them uncomfortable because they don't want to be a victim because they think that that's weak and it's like an unwillingness it's just an outlet really isn't it exactly and like yeah they're unwilling to like accept that they're even hurt hs tick ticky tocky was talking he they kind of go into his backstory with his dad and he live streams it so he's like there and he has the camera on his lap and he's talking to his dad and then he says to the camera in like a debrief going like it doesn't affect me now I feel fine and even if I am hurt about it I don't even know that I am because it's obviously buried so deep within sad yeah these guys need a cuddle I know and they're just overcompensating do any of them have girlfriends there's a lot of women around them but I don't know I couldn't tell like HSTKTK gets like a live stream blowjob in one of them so I don't yeah Yeah.
Speaker #1
That's her.
Speaker #0
I know, I know.
Speaker #1
There could be Gen Z listening.
Speaker #0
I think it's kind of like this. They're trying to feel powerful when they feel powerless and then they overcompensate. And then it's like they don't think that like, you know, there's strength in vulnerability and you can grow that way. And that's the way out of it. And the way out of it is talking about it and not this like big performance obsession with money. And I think a lot of men, young men are going to. So if they're 13. They're being sold this dream that like hating women, thinking that I can be in an open relationship, but my wife can't talk to a man. I saw that part. Three of them are in them. So young men are going to grow up and realise that like hating women isn't the answer. You're not going to get a woman by hating them. And the ones that do that end up becoming the incels. So it is an interesting watch. I did enjoy it.
Speaker #1
What would they think about someone like Bonnie Blue then?
Speaker #0
Great cue.
Speaker #1
Thank you. Thank you very much. I was just thinking, what's the like female version of this?
Speaker #0
I don't know if Bonnie...
Speaker #1
He's not like radical like that.
Speaker #0
So in his house in Marbella, HS Tiki Taki. I feel so stupid saying that name. Sorry.
Speaker #1
It's so tiring to hear as well.
Speaker #0
There was an OnlyFans girl there and then he's like reading out the comments that some of his followers were saying and it was like, oh, she's going to be slurping on Louis Theroux soon. And she's just there, oh, yeah, it's just men talk. So, well, his views on, like, if my daughter didn't only translate disowners, so they don't seem to. respect while they make money off those women who do those things but who do OnlyFans but they don't seem to respect them.
Speaker #1
Oh my god.
Speaker #0
Yeah but sorry one final thing is one thing I noticed about all of them.
Speaker #1
Go on.
Speaker #0
Every single one. This is how you can tell somebody's in the manosphere. They have the most unusual square shaped goatee.
Speaker #1
Oh, I was hoping you weren't going to say that.
Speaker #0
And it's like a little... They're just a square beard. It's not like a schmig. It's not a goatee. It's not kind of a piratey one. It's just a full covered chin. And then they wear the most unflattering, cheapo sunglasses money can buy. From Andrew Tate all the way to H.S. Tiki Taki. They're all doing, it is like the uniform of the manosphere.
Speaker #1
Where is Andrew Tate now?
Speaker #0
He's back in America. Trump got him off.
Speaker #1
Cool.
Speaker #0
Like, oh, it's just beyond. Aren't they hosting like some UFC in the White House?
Speaker #1
Don't. This, honestly, this. In the White House?
Speaker #0
Yeah. And Logan Paul is like trying to run for some kind of place. Who is he? I don't know. He's a YouTuber. But I also think like, okay, this isn't it. Just to finish on this point. This is an extreme example. OK, and you're talking to people who have like who are really successful at what they do for good or bad, mostly probably bad. But when it trickles down into the mainstream, like it is kind of scary, though, when you see diluted versions of this manosphere in conversations that you'd have like down the pub of like people who listen to certain podcasts. So sometimes it's like it's not as if this is obviously an extreme, extreme example.
Speaker #1
course. Also, like it just depends on what you're watching.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
And who you're listening to.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
All the time.
Speaker #0
And your echo, it goes back to the beginning of our chat, like your echo chamber. Yeah. When it trickles down, it might not be as extreme as what those guys are saying and doing and promoting. But I do think it does trickle down into, Mick would often say about his algorithm, you know, like you do get attacked by the manosphere because it's so clickbaity. It's so ragebaity. that you have to actively train your algorithm out of it and like go in and click like a few puppy videos. A few cats. A few cats, a few chubby babies, you know. You have to actively not get sucked into it. When it's in your algorithm, it's in your subconscious. I think especially since COVID, I've heard a lot of people be very like, and I know I'm a tinfoil adder, but very like anti-mainstream media. And then it kind of trickles into... different beliefs that different people have and then that influencing you.
Speaker #1
Go home, Roger.
Speaker #0
Yeah, go outside. Get off your phone. Yeah, go outside.
Speaker #1
Get off your gaming chair. Oh, Gazza has a gaming chair.
Speaker #0
I do. Accidentally, accidentally.
Speaker #1
I don't watch Love is Blind. I feel like I've maybe seen clips of when it came out years ago because there was some contestant who got, like, used to get quite drunk.
Speaker #0
Oh, nice.
Speaker #1
And she had a golden retriever. That's kind of all I know about it. But I saw something yesterday and then I was like Googling it and I was like, God, this is nuts. So basically this couple matched and are you then, do you see each other once you propose or whatever?
Speaker #0
Once you propose. I watched season one, I think.
Speaker #1
This guy then, they go on, do they go on a trip after?
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
Yeah, so they go on a trip and then I started seeing this clip of him talking to her and it's when they're... they've gone on the trip together so they've hung out and then I think they're calling it like is it the Pilates chat heard around the world or something like that but there's this scene it is so uncomfortable and it's this guy called Chris Fusco and it's gone viral oh for telling fiance yeah Jessica Barrett I'll do the quote he goes for me and he's stuttering and stuff he is for me just to be totally honest without sounding like an effing dickhead I don't know how to say it in the normal world I date people who fucking do crossfit and shit oh and then he goes i usually date women who do pilates every day or crossfit he's kind of body sorry he is body shaming her basically and she's this girl is a doctor oh my god and she's kind of like trying to figure it out and he's like um and she's like are you saying you don't like my body like that it's also she's a size uk size 8 ps And he's like, like, I just don't know. And I think she cries then. That's all I've seen, basically. And then afterwards, they basically don't end up together, obviously. But there's so many things going on. If you put it into like Instagram and stuff of like what people are saying, what's actually happening versus what he's saying and stuff like that. And there's this thing on Instagram. It was like someone said Love is Blind is basically a socioeconomic time capsule. The women have careers, homes and emotional intelligence. The men have roommates, red flags and complicated backstories in inverted commas.
Speaker #0
Roommates, red flags.
Speaker #1
A perfect microcosm of modern dating. And then these psychologists are doing little tiny studies on it, being like, they're everyone's praising the girl for being like, I'm not going to try and make you love me. Like, that's not what I'm here to do. And everyone's like saying she's such a queen. And then there's loads of these like Pilates groups that are like, Chris, we saw you and we don't want you anywhere near our studio. But then there's this, like, a psychologist who says, this is really interesting. He goes, this isn't about the gym. Chris is a guy who consistently goes for women who are out of his league. I'm sorry also to point out, she is very out of his league. So he's saying it to her. I think they call him a hobbit or something. Anyway, Chris consistently goes for women who are out of his league. I don't mean that as an insult. I mean it more critically. When a man with fragile self-esteem chooses a partner, he's not choosing her. He's choosing what she reflects back at him. Her value is what makes him feel valuable. He's not selecting her. He's selecting his own value through her. Once she is real, has an actual body, opinions and doesn't do Pilates every day, the fantasy collapses. He needed her as a concept more than an actual person. So he left. It looks like standards, but that's not it. It's a man who is terrified of being truly known by someone who is clearly better than him and getting out before that becomes undeniable. Whoa. My God. His self-esteem is built entirely on external architecture, looks, dating, history, and who wants him. The second that gets threatened, he's off.
Speaker #0
Wow, what a read.
Speaker #1
Sorry, is that not the most intelligent thing you've ever heard?
Speaker #0
Caught him in two. That's incredible.
Speaker #1
Isn't it? And there's loads of different psychologists and stuff talking about it. Being like, have you seen this scene? Like, it's nuts.
Speaker #0
I just think it's like mental that because you hear of that stuff happening in maths as well being like oh I just I really go for girls who look after themselves or you see it on like dating on hinge profiles it was like looking for like act an active girl.
Speaker #1
I know someone who left a date because did he say he only wants to go out with people who exercise or who are fit or something and he said it rudely and she was like I'm actually standing up for women and Talking about,
Speaker #0
yeah, this is the... stand for feminism. Yeah,
Speaker #1
she's super active like it wasn't for her.
Speaker #0
Oh my God.
Speaker #1
Isn't that nuts?
Speaker #0
What I love about those dating shows, they are good, what you said about like, they are a good snapshot into how people are thinking of the time. And it's just like, the expectation he has to be treated really nicely and like have a glamorous, gorgeous girl surrounding him who do Pilates seven times a day, you know, but then doesn't afford anyone the same in return.
Speaker #1
But it's like when she becomes there and she's attainable because she's there.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
And she's saying like, yeah, I'll marry you. It's almost like he's like, oh, wait, I could probably get someone else.
Speaker #0
Yeah. There's a better one coming along somewhere else.
Speaker #1
Because she's actually a real person. Yeah. This girl that's in front of him.
Speaker #0
And there's safety in the fantasy.
Speaker #1
Totally.
Speaker #0
Whereas like she sounded like a real, like a what? man to quote Gary Bradshaw. I am a what man.
Speaker #1
I am a what man. And then I think they have a conversation a few weeks later when they all have some party or something. And he's like, you know, I really like you. Like, you're beautiful. You've dark features. And she's like, I'm not here to hear about why I'm beautiful. All the people, like the psychologists and stuff like that, who are commenting on it, they're like, this girl is unbelievable.
Speaker #0
Going back to that, like, safety thing. If you just constantly We... It's a bit like how I used to be about like wanting to be with like a six foot ten man. You know, people can get in the day in the dating world. You can get so fixated on like the physical and like for him, it's like, oh, she needs to be tickle these boxes and look a certain way that you you miss out on loads of real people and a chance at a real relationship. And somebody that will actually like to be your partner and challenge you. So it's like, oh, I'm just going to, I'll stick to this way and then be with somebody that wouldn't challenge you or wouldn't, but they hit the boxes in other ways.
Speaker #1
But it's also probably like an avoidance thing.
Speaker #0
Sorry, said far better than I. Yes, avoidance.
Speaker #1
Because it's like, no, I'm not going to go with him because he's not X and I won't go with him because he's not Y. It's just an avoidance thing because you don't want to get close to someone because it's so confronting that you're like, no,
Speaker #0
You use it as an excuse. Exactly.
Speaker #1
Are we psychologists?
Speaker #0
I think this is our doctor.
Speaker #1
We need to get a prescription pad and two pairs of glasses.
Speaker #0
And like a load of certs in the background.
Speaker #1
And really awful handwriting that no one can read.
Speaker #0
That no one can read. And a signature that's just a squiggle.
Speaker #1
You know when you give like a GP's thing and the person in the pharmacy is like... What's that saying? I'm like, it's what you knew. I don't know.
Speaker #0
And then it looks like you're trying to like scam drugs up front.
Speaker #1
Yeah. Just be really like, do real wobbly writing. Anyway, I don't watch Love is Blind, but like that lady is just so fabulous. Look up the clips because it's like there's some major psychology stuff going on.
Speaker #0
Wow. Yeah. I got down with Chris. What a small minded man.
Speaker #1
There's another guy. Is it Alex? And he's like. So basically I lived in, I was in Ohio and in Cincinnati and then I went out down to Austin. But then actually I got a year off. I got a severance pay and he's doing this thing and he can't catch up. Like it's all made up or not made up. I don't know what it is. But they're calling him a hobosexual because he's like won't commit to where he lived.
Speaker #0
Oh, that tickled me.
Speaker #1
I don't have it in my wheelhouse to be watching Love is Blind, but those two things were very, very nourishing. We had a real man-centred episode, didn't we?
Speaker #0
And we love men. Sorry, we do.
Speaker #1
I love men.
Speaker #0
We have many men friends and we come at this with compassion. We're just talking about what's in the news, really. Perhaps just so happens to be a big old manly episode this week.
Speaker #1
Yeah, I didn't think they'd be such a... We really did talk about men the whole time.
Speaker #0
Yeah, yeah. Between Pilates Chris and fucking HSTKTK, men are not having a good week.
Speaker #1
Yeah, they're not, are they?
Speaker #0
Look, we are compassionate girlies. We're on a vibe with the men.
Speaker #1
The normal ones.
Speaker #0
Give them a cuddle and send them to therapy.
Speaker #1
Seriously. Just a quick therapy session.
Speaker #0
Just a little boost your day.
Speaker #1
I know, exactly.
Speaker #0
Gazza I believe it's my turn for a record oh yes so you got your record for us this week what could it be?
Speaker #1
I have a funky music one for you I love Madonna's Like A Prayer there are so many remixes and I'm going to put this remix I think it's called that's one of our wedding songs it's brilliant yeah it's the seven is it seven inch remix edit? I'll put it in the show notes it is so fly Thank you. There's the second one that I'll put in. It's like a prayer, but it's called Churchapella, which is like a churchy remix.
Speaker #0
Love Obsessed.
Speaker #1
Really good. I've listened to it several times today. Get you in the mood, girls. Thank you so much for listening. We hope you enjoyed our chat on the strange men that are cropping up across the media. But just a reminder, we love the good men, which there are loads of. Don't forget to follow us on Instagram, House of Gossip Pod. at classicbanan at soap underscore lions. Send us stuff if you want us to review it. Also, thank you all so much for celebrating with us for Clara's golden child who is en route. We're very excited. And it will be the first hoglet.
Speaker #0
Yes, a little hoglet. The trap dog. My God,
Speaker #1
what will they wear?
Speaker #0
I know.
Speaker #1
Garments, yes. Feathers, etc.
Speaker #0
Glitter.
Speaker #1
I hope you have a great week and we'll talk to you real soon. All right. Bye. Oh, it's St. Patrick's Day.
Speaker #0
Oh, fuck.
Speaker #1
Ladies, sorry. Hang on. Hang on.
Speaker #0
Laugh a little more.
Speaker #1
It's St. Patrick's Day today. It's also my mom's birthday today.
Speaker #0
Yay.
Speaker #1
Yay.
Speaker #0
Happy birthday to you.
Speaker #1
Happy St. Patrick's Day.
Speaker #0
Woo.
Speaker #1
Whoa.
Speaker #0
You.

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Happy St. Patricks' Day to all of our Irish listeners 💚

Recco of the week is Like a Prayer Remix

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Transcription

Speaker #0
Hello Good morning, good evening, good afternoon, good day, good morrow and good night. It is House of Gossip, your weekly dose of pop culture nourishment brought to you by me, Clara Kavanagh and you, Sophie Lyons. We are very giddy to gossip with you. We've got a lot of telly stuff to get through this week. But before we get into any of that, so how are you?
Speaker #1
I'm fabulous. We're recording on a Friday, which always makes it nice. A bit more giggly.
Speaker #0
Friday's in the air. It's sunny for once.
Speaker #1
I know. I was actually, sorry, but I was on a line bike earlier. And it's like, it's nice sky out, even though it's a bit cold. And I had Silver Springs Fleetwood Mac on.
Speaker #0
Woo
Speaker #1
You know the one? I've been done to the ceiling now. And I was going on my line bike through the thing and I was like, this is living.
Speaker #0
I love those little moments where you're like, God, life's great.
Speaker #1
Oh my God. I was like one handing it. Whoa. Yeah, I know. And I was like, this is living right now.
Speaker #0
I love that.
Speaker #1
How are you, Gazza?
Speaker #0
I'm great. Very good.
Speaker #1
I'm great. I'm perfect.
Speaker #0
I don't know if I had a nature moment like that this week, but I'm enjoying the...
Speaker #1
Stretch in the evenings.
Speaker #0
Spring in the air. Stretch. The grand stretch. It's very good. So what are you, Jador, you're testing from this week?
Speaker #1
I actually had it like really early on in the week. Or no, sorry. I think it was just after we recorded our last one. And I was like, I need to write this down. Oh, intriguing. It annoys me and I forget about it all the time.
Speaker #0
Oh, me too.
Speaker #1
People need to stop saying the following phrase when they're saying a story about themselves, implying that they're like a bit unhinged when they're like, and then like I had four vodka soda limes. Like, am I well? Someone said it. It doesn't even matter who said it to me because I can't actually remember. But when they said it, it triggered that I was like, wait, I forgot that I that needs to stop. society. It's so annoying. Are we well? I think it's especially in a double accent. It's annoying.
Speaker #0
Yeah, that irks me.
Speaker #1
It's so annoying, isn't it? Whoever said it to me, I was like trying to listen to the story and I was like, it's so overused.
Speaker #0
It is.
Speaker #1
And I think American origin.
Speaker #0
Am I well?
Speaker #1
Am I well? It's so annoying.
Speaker #0
If you want to be a bit of a kook, be a kook. You don't need to say, am I well? Like, let your freak flag fly.
Speaker #1
But I get what they're trying to say, but I think just the phrase, the phrase has gone too colloquial now and it's so annoying.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
It's like implying you're a ledge. Isn't it?
Speaker #0
What petition to stop?
Speaker #1
Yeah, like I ended up staying over at his for like two days. Am I well? Yeah, you're fine.
Speaker #0
You're grand, sweetie.
Speaker #1
Yeah.
Speaker #0
God, I'm going to notice that now.
Speaker #1
someone just said it just clicked that i was like it's such an annoying phrase it's like when someone says uh freshen up i like twitch i hate that phrase wait put that in a sentence oh will we go home for 20 minutes and freshen up and then go out like that makes me feel sick i think i just don't like it i'm like just say i'm gonna take a shower or i'm gonna change stop saying freshen up it's gross laughs oh I love when phrases kind of annoy you and you're like they just make you feel oh I have so many phrases and words that annoy me or like when someone's like can we grab a bite oh my number one is we had such a nice meal what's
Speaker #0
a meal that bothers you using the word meal my sister got me onto this we had a lovely meal number one when you say meal it removes like the context I don't know did you have brunch brekkie lunch dinner whatever it's like oh we had a great meal there it's like what just say dinner say lunch meal
Speaker #1
I feel like meal adds to the food so it's more like it made it more of an event you meal makes it sound more glamorous and kind of yeah like you know if your mum comes home and be like oh we had a lovely meal but like I think meal deal I think happy meal oh
Speaker #0
I think gruel meal drives me insane
Speaker #1
I think prison.
Speaker #0
We had a lovely meal there. No, a meal drives me insane.
Speaker #1
I also hate the phrase sing for your supper.
Speaker #0
Oh, that's very Oliver Twist.
Speaker #1
When you said grill, I heard supper.
Speaker #0
Yes.
Speaker #1
I don't like the word supper either.
Speaker #0
Supper.
Speaker #1
Or in the States when they're like, can I get a couple of sodas? And you're like, tell me how many is a couple? Because it's not two to you.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
Tell me what soda.
Speaker #0
And they also say, I'm going to do the carb salad.
Speaker #1
I'm going to do a platter of the chicken fingers.
Speaker #0
It's not do, it's I'm going to have.
Speaker #1
I'll do the burger. medium well what it's so wrong semantics ladies yeah anyway am i well needs to stop sorry that's how we got here what's yours your test i'm gonna take the luxury and do two number one thank you number
Speaker #0
one is thank you so much for everyone's messages last week and the love better oh guys are broke the internet baby news um it was just so lovely so thank you to everyone taking the time to message it was There, be cute. And my micro-judge test is, every time I see a headline on it, I just roll my eyes and scroll by. I don't give a flying fuck that Zendaya and Tom Holland, Spider-Man guy, got married or not.
Speaker #1
I really agree with you.
Speaker #0
What is all this hype? If you want to get married in private, do it in private. Stop getting law-wrote your stylist to say stuff. Stop... doing stuff when you're wearing Carrie Bradshaw's dress and looking phenomenal. It's just you're actually creating more attention and more hype by not saying anything. It's driving me insane.
Speaker #1
Stop trying to keep everything a secret because like I don't think that many people care.
Speaker #0
A hundred percent. And it's like, oh, we don't want anyone to know. But like, oh, let's create all this intrigue.
Speaker #1
The photos are released though.
Speaker #0
Were they AI? I don't know. I saw them. were they I think they were she's fabulous whatever but I don't have a connection to either of them no at all I'm not a euphoria girly I tried one episode of Depress Me bummed me out so bad it's really depressing oh god I just couldn't and him he's just a he's just a little pip pip squeak
Speaker #1
I actually was like you're not pip squeak did you he's such a pip squeak yeah I just don't care I'm like cool they got married well done
Speaker #0
best of luck guys loads of people have gotten married and said nothing and it's just been like a we did that on our own like say margot robbie i know her husband isn't famous but like you never even know that they had a kid they're on red carpets a bit together but it's just like not the focus it's like you wanted to be it's the false made out of it i agree she's
Speaker #1
kind of untouchable and i feel like her team around her it's very intense very Thank you.
Speaker #0
And the hype around her.
Speaker #1
You know, like really, she's just an actress in her. Sorry, not just an actress, but really, she's an actress in her
Speaker #0
20s. It reminds me of the way Harry Styles is treated. It's like, this is like the future of rock and roll. You know, he is a mega global, the next Bowie. And it's like, yeah, OK, Harry Styles, you're great. Love your clothes and your dance moves are to die for.
Speaker #1
And I still like him.
Speaker #0
I still think he's great.
Speaker #1
Yeah, but it's like this beloved. untouchable force feels around them that I'm like okay.
Speaker #0
Because Law Roach her stylist who is so much fun on Drag Race I must say what a sassy queen.
Speaker #1
He seems like such a diva.
Speaker #0
But Law doesn't do anything they're a real media mastermind nothing is an accident. Law first saying like oh like leaking the whole marriage story like that was intentional that wasn't a slip of the tongue. So it makes me feel like it's just a big PR plan.
Speaker #1
Oh, of course it was. But sorry, didn't he quit?
Speaker #0
Yeah, like spare me. Stop. Stop quitting and starting again.
Speaker #1
Are you retired?
Speaker #0
But my only client is Zendaya. That's it.
Speaker #1
Oh.
Speaker #0
It's just all this weird hype. It's like, it's just you're doing it for attention. I'm saying that you don't want attention. It's like Meghan and Harry. Like, you know, we don't want any attention. We want to leave the royal family. And then you're signing like Spotify, Netflix deals all the time. It's like. You do want the attention, though. You do want it. Oh,
Speaker #1
of course. It's just like control.
Speaker #0
You're on your privacy tour. Wasn't that the South Park joke?
Speaker #1
Who said it? And they were like, was it Julia Roberts? Anyway, but they were just like, if you don't want to be seen outside a restaurant, you don't have to be seen outside a restaurant. They were like, there's ways to go in the back. You don't have to go to the restaurant. If you want to go to the restaurant, you go in the back. All this different stuff. And like, you can try that way.
Speaker #0
Look at Adele. You never see Adele. She's always in the back, goes out the back doors and through the kitchens.
Speaker #1
She's so cool.
Speaker #0
You know, you don't have to be seen. Sometimes people are like, oh, oh my God.
Speaker #1
I think it's half the game, isn't it?
Speaker #0
Yeah. It's hype machine, I think.
Speaker #1
Yeah, I don't like it either. I think that's a very fair test.
Speaker #0
Like Jay-Z and Beyonce got married in private and like referred to it like 10 years later. That's all you gotta do. If you actually want a privacy, that's what you do.
Speaker #1
Also, that's the fact these guys are so young. What age are they? Like 22?
Speaker #0
I think they're going to be free. I'm going to Google this right now. I think they're freakishly old.
Speaker #1
Freakishly old?
Speaker #0
I want to say freakishly old. I think like, I think like late
Speaker #1
20s. What do you mean freakishly old?
Speaker #0
I think we think they're 21, but they're not. Oh,
Speaker #1
sorry.
Speaker #0
Yeah, both 29.
Speaker #1
Oh, they just appear very childlike. don't they yeah yeah i don't care i couldn't agree with you more no hate no shade i love love go for it ladies but stop trying to go oh my god no just leave us alone leave us alone jiggery i'm like they do seem like a cute little couple they seem kind of bro-y yeah she seems like a bro which i like and he seems nice yeah anyway fine by me like when people come up to me in public and they're like i'm just like guys i'm just having dinner let's chill out i'll talk to you later quick pack and we're gone don't you not like to just join in and be like i know i can't believe it's me either oh i love me you must do that when you're famous for the first bit are they going oh my god and then you've been like and then it must get old so quick when people like you're walking somewhere and then they're like you must be like oh my god oh gee oh sorry that was a really micro one but i'm glad you agreed to me Oh my god, totally. I didn't know what you were going to say. I believe that you watched something that I haven't watched yet and I want to watch it. I also got feedback from two ladies last night saying they watched it and it was really depressing. And one of them was like, we're on a downward spiral.
Speaker #0
Yeah. They're not wrong.
Speaker #1
Would you like to introduce the gazzer?
Speaker #0
On that beautiful note, Louis Theroux, in his Netflix debut, has done the Louis Theroux Manosphere documentary, Hour and a Half. So he's back doing documentaries, back of the box. He decided to investigate the topic of Manosphere after he started learning about Andrew Tay from his sons. And he was like, who is this guy? He was kind of saying at the beginning or in interviews or something that it was like he was worried that like... these repeated misogynistic jokes, stopping jokes when they go unchallenged and like, hang on, can we explore this a little bit? So he starts exploring the manosphere, which generally means like an online community promoting extreme anti-feminist views, misogyny and hyper-masculinity. So like all these gendered roles. It also goes down a bit of a weird anti-Semitic route. It goes into a lot of different places. But I must say, because I feel like Louis hasn't really done a documentary like this in a while. It's a real, what do they call it? Like return divorce or return to your tour to force. I'm getting confused.
Speaker #1
Is that what it's called? I think, I think it's, it is a tour.
Speaker #0
But I don't think, I mean it like a rich, anyway, he's, he's returned. It reminded me a lot of the old Louis Theroux documentaries in the sense that there's a lot of awkward pauses. People just hang themselves out to dry. by their own words like he says very little. Some of the guests and like the influencers that he talks to start changing their tune when they figure out like because they don't know who Louis Theroux is and then they their community starts being like he's gonna make you look like a clown and then the the whole vibe changes. It just reminded me a lot of the old amazing Louis Theroux documentary so I think it is.
Speaker #1
Oh yeah.
Speaker #0
Like I did really like the interview series that he did with like Stormzy. I loved that. It was a Judi Dench and Joan Collins. That was really good. With his podcast and everything, sometimes I think, how do I put this? He was almost becoming like, not a caricature of himself, but in a like, I've got a whole new production team. We're going to give my next chapter of my career a big new lease of life. But it was kind of. overworking something it lost its authenticity for me a little bit and i don't really know why but then this is actually brilliant it's it's really well done really well made like yes it is really scary though because i agree with your gal policy watchers it is it's just it's like getting a peek into somebody else's algorithm and being like what the fuck is this it's so weird because on one side Peace.
Speaker #1
You hear all these things like feminism now and, you know, not as many women are getting married and having kids and senior leadership, team roles. And you can hear all that. And then if you and I are like, just like women in the world.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
We know that it's still very much man led. Yeah. CEOs and C-suites. Boys clubs completely. So it just depends on who you're talking to.
Speaker #0
Yeah, it does. And who's in your echo chamber in a way?
Speaker #1
Now people, as an example, like stuff like trans rights. That wasn't a conversation like maybe 10 years ago. And now, depending on who you talk to and where you are, it's a very big thing. Stuff like pronouns and using correct pronouns and all this kind of stuff.
Speaker #0
One guy, Sneeko, in the documentary goes, they're putting trans hormones in the water. So if you drink the water, it'll make you want to be trans. like Sure. Yeah, that's that's how that happens, pal. It's like full of conspiracy.
Speaker #1
Imagine you and I talking to a few meatheads.
Speaker #0
Because there was that study just off the back of what you said. There was research that suggested that there's a growing support for traditional gender hierarchies, with 31 percent of Gen Z men agreeing that a wife should obey her husband. And millennials, it's 29%, Gen X, 21. And boomers is 13%.
Speaker #1
13% of boomers think wives should...
Speaker #0
That there should be a gender hierarchy.
Speaker #1
Okay, and what are Gen Z saying? What percent?
Speaker #0
They're 31% believing that a wife should obey. But I also think, sorry, with the boomers, they've lived longer with women and they've gone through more with women. They've had more life experiences, like say, become parents. or, you know, seen different movements happen and things like that. I think with the Gen Z thinking this, they're also more malleable and they're younger and they don't have the same life experience. Like a lot of the fans of this documentary go as young as 13, 10. So they can obviously think that, but they don't have the life experience to have shared that with women.
Speaker #1
Yeah, like you wonder what a boomer at that age that the Gen Zs are voting. What would they say?
Speaker #0
Exactly. And like a boomer will have more female friends, that kind of thing. And they also don't have the internet that would be effectively brainwashing them into this like manosphere.
Speaker #1
Well, yeah, because their algorithm. But they're also saying Gen Z is the first generation ever to not outsmart its predecessor.
Speaker #0
Shut up.
Speaker #1
Like intelligence wise. Yeah. So every generation before us like. Gen X would have surpassed a boomer in like, I don't know, general intelligence level, something like that. And so forth. And Gen Z is the first one not to. Oh,
Speaker #0
God.
Speaker #1
I don't know if we have Gen Z listeners.
Speaker #0
Well, if we do, guten tag. Velkommen.
Speaker #1
But like just the way they have technology and stuff like the way they've had it so far obviously makes everything so different.
Speaker #0
And as well, when you've like AI helping you do your homework. But I think it comes down to like loneliness and like wanting to like find a community and whether that be the manosphere or a bot, you know, people just want to connect maybe. Yeah, it's interesting. But like with this manosphere, they do go to an extreme and they're like whatever the this kind of performance they put on, they think they're like, we need to teach young men how to be proper boys kind of thing.
Speaker #1
What's a proper boy?
Speaker #0
That's where it goes back all the like Gender hierarchies, extreme masculinity, anti-LGBTQ+, this red pill ideology.
Speaker #1
What's a red pill ideology?
Speaker #0
I never thought you'd ask. It is. So this term gets used a lot in the documentary and like in, I suppose, Manispheres. But it comes from The Matrix. And it's a belief that they've discovered hidden truths about society. And it includes things like rejection of feminism, distrust of mainstream media. and conspiracy style thinking. Like some of the, it goes into like a quite a dark thing. Like when something's wrong, they get so anti-Semitic and they just like blame Jews.
Speaker #1
Will it make me angry, the documentary? I think it might make me angry.
Speaker #0
You can view it and just go like, I'm trying to like be a bit more balanced because I don't think like, I feel like men and women are pitted against each other so much. And like, we can't expect women to fix. gender equality and saying we can't expect men to fit it either we have to fix it like together so i don't think like i don't like hate on these men too much because there needs to be a few more olive branches but i think it's scary in the sense that of like how much influence they have they dominate some of these guys like so there's one guy hs ticky tocky and his little he's the kind of batman and to his robin is this uh guy called ed matthews How they make their money basically is trading advice, which is very questionable. Louis invests £500 and like most of it's gone by the end. But HS Tiki Taki takes a cut. Then there's paid telegram groups because they're basically banned off loads of, it's not as regulated and they're banned off most of the other sites. And then they sell explicit and controversial content there or on these other sites. So they do like, he's doing like seven hour live streams every day. And like some of them include them like beating people up because they think they're catching predators. So they think they have to take the law upon themselves. Yeah, they they beat up one guy and then they...
Speaker #1
Predators of women.
Speaker #0
Yeah. Or if there's someone like if they think he's a pedo, if someone's a pedo, like they just beat him. There's two times that you see him beating people up. And then he's like also like hiding in Dubai and hiding in L.A. because he's avoiding...
Speaker #1
Yeah, sorry. What countries is it in? It looks sunny in the trailer.
Speaker #0
So H.S. Tiki Taki and you're his... Robin guy his names are so they live in Marbella because he was hiding out from a driving offence which he ended up getting off on and then he's also in a And then he talks to a few American ones, which are in like New York, Miami. So, yes, very sunny.
Speaker #1
Right.
Speaker #0
Like your man H.S. Tiki Taki. It's interesting because he starts and ends with him. And he's the one of the influencers where he thinks he's getting this like profile piece by this guy. And then all his followers were like, he's going to make you look like a clown. And then he completely changes because like at the beginning of the documentary, he's there like, I disowned my son if he came out as gay. I'd disown my daughter if she did OnlyFans, even though he owns an influencer company of OnlyFans influencers.
Speaker #1
You're talking about like hyper, me man, you woman, aren't you?
Speaker #0
And like, there's one point where they go to work out in Marbella and like, they're all in like Porto Banus. It's like, God, I haven't seen that place since I was like 16.
Speaker #1
So many weird things go on in Porto Banus.
Speaker #0
I know, it's a bit like a real dark black hole.
Speaker #1
Drug families, yeah, yeah.
Speaker #0
And. He starts talking down the camera and then Louis is like, hello, I'm over here. But he's just so used to social.
Speaker #1
I saw that bit and he's like, I'm over here.
Speaker #0
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's mad. It's just crazy. So like, and he openly says like he doesn't believe he's he just I'm a salesman and I don't believe what I'm selling. Like they're selling a scam or selling this like a dream that doesn't exist.
Speaker #1
Wait, he's a salesman and he doesn't believe what he's selling.
Speaker #0
No, he's like, if my mom heard what I was saying. She'd be really angry at me.
Speaker #1
But does he believe what he's saying?
Speaker #0
I think they just do it for the money because...
Speaker #1
The money from who?
Speaker #0
So they get the money from the trading advice and signing up to these channels where they sell the content. So the more clickbaity it is, the more viral it goes, the more fans you get and the more people will pay for it.
Speaker #1
Right.
Speaker #0
So it's almost like it's like this performance. But anytime like Louis questions them on it, they completely dissolve. Like they can't back it up really. It's like it's really interesting. who's the like higher power andrew tate probably he's the kingpin donald trump probably this is so weird i don't think i can watch that it's very strange that's so sad yeah he's like call me a misogynist call me a homophobe or a scammer i'm all of those things like he doesn't care at the end they're they fly out to la and he's like i'm gonna get my own back on louis through it's a great scene the mum's in there then the mum gets real feisty with louis and then he thinks he's getting like the upper hand but it's like, I don't know. I don't know if you are a HFC.
Speaker #1
That's really sad.
Speaker #0
And like at its core, a lot of these men have like, have had really difficult childhoods. Like all of them have a backstory. One was nearly put in foster care. Sullivan was raised by his single mum. His dad is an ex-English rugby player, I think. And so mum working long hours. There's a real case of fatherlessness, lack of a male role model. And then like an anger that like, you know, your mom has to be your mom and your dad. And she's not there for you in like the way that she should be. And it makes you kind of think that like, like men just need to go to therapy. I don't know. Like you can subscribe.
Speaker #1
I was just thinking like, get these guys some therapy.
Speaker #0
But I think it's easier to get when you're in that kind of more vulnerable state and you're looking for a connection, you're looking for a tribe. It's easier to join something like this and get a bit like. radicalized to a point oh yeah confronting the pain your issues or the trauma that you've gone through or blaming the system like you know because that would make them uncomfortable because they don't want to be a victim because they think that that's weak and it's like an unwillingness it's just an outlet really isn't it exactly and like yeah they're unwilling to like accept that they're even hurt hs tick ticky tocky was talking he they kind of go into his backstory with his dad and he live streams it so he's like there and he has the camera on his lap and he's talking to his dad and then he says to the camera in like a debrief going like it doesn't affect me now I feel fine and even if I am hurt about it I don't even know that I am because it's obviously buried so deep within sad yeah these guys need a cuddle I know and they're just overcompensating do any of them have girlfriends there's a lot of women around them but I don't know I couldn't tell like HSTKTK gets like a live stream blowjob in one of them so I don't yeah Yeah.
Speaker #1
That's her.
Speaker #0
I know, I know.
Speaker #1
There could be Gen Z listening.
Speaker #0
I think it's kind of like this. They're trying to feel powerful when they feel powerless and then they overcompensate. And then it's like they don't think that like, you know, there's strength in vulnerability and you can grow that way. And that's the way out of it. And the way out of it is talking about it and not this like big performance obsession with money. And I think a lot of men, young men are going to. So if they're 13. They're being sold this dream that like hating women, thinking that I can be in an open relationship, but my wife can't talk to a man. I saw that part. Three of them are in them. So young men are going to grow up and realise that like hating women isn't the answer. You're not going to get a woman by hating them. And the ones that do that end up becoming the incels. So it is an interesting watch. I did enjoy it.
Speaker #1
What would they think about someone like Bonnie Blue then?
Speaker #0
Great cue.
Speaker #1
Thank you. Thank you very much. I was just thinking, what's the like female version of this?
Speaker #0
I don't know if Bonnie...
Speaker #1
He's not like radical like that.
Speaker #0
So in his house in Marbella, HS Tiki Taki. I feel so stupid saying that name. Sorry.
Speaker #1
It's so tiring to hear as well.
Speaker #0
There was an OnlyFans girl there and then he's like reading out the comments that some of his followers were saying and it was like, oh, she's going to be slurping on Louis Theroux soon. And she's just there, oh, yeah, it's just men talk. So, well, his views on, like, if my daughter didn't only translate disowners, so they don't seem to. respect while they make money off those women who do those things but who do OnlyFans but they don't seem to respect them.
Speaker #1
Oh my god.
Speaker #0
Yeah but sorry one final thing is one thing I noticed about all of them.
Speaker #1
Go on.
Speaker #0
Every single one. This is how you can tell somebody's in the manosphere. They have the most unusual square shaped goatee.
Speaker #1
Oh, I was hoping you weren't going to say that.
Speaker #0
And it's like a little... They're just a square beard. It's not like a schmig. It's not a goatee. It's not kind of a piratey one. It's just a full covered chin. And then they wear the most unflattering, cheapo sunglasses money can buy. From Andrew Tate all the way to H.S. Tiki Taki. They're all doing, it is like the uniform of the manosphere.
Speaker #1
Where is Andrew Tate now?
Speaker #0
He's back in America. Trump got him off.
Speaker #1
Cool.
Speaker #0
Like, oh, it's just beyond. Aren't they hosting like some UFC in the White House?
Speaker #1
Don't. This, honestly, this. In the White House?
Speaker #0
Yeah. And Logan Paul is like trying to run for some kind of place. Who is he? I don't know. He's a YouTuber. But I also think like, okay, this isn't it. Just to finish on this point. This is an extreme example. OK, and you're talking to people who have like who are really successful at what they do for good or bad, mostly probably bad. But when it trickles down into the mainstream, like it is kind of scary, though, when you see diluted versions of this manosphere in conversations that you'd have like down the pub of like people who listen to certain podcasts. So sometimes it's like it's not as if this is obviously an extreme, extreme example.
Speaker #1
course. Also, like it just depends on what you're watching.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
And who you're listening to.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
All the time.
Speaker #0
And your echo, it goes back to the beginning of our chat, like your echo chamber. Yeah. When it trickles down, it might not be as extreme as what those guys are saying and doing and promoting. But I do think it does trickle down into, Mick would often say about his algorithm, you know, like you do get attacked by the manosphere because it's so clickbaity. It's so ragebaity. that you have to actively train your algorithm out of it and like go in and click like a few puppy videos. A few cats. A few cats, a few chubby babies, you know. You have to actively not get sucked into it. When it's in your algorithm, it's in your subconscious. I think especially since COVID, I've heard a lot of people be very like, and I know I'm a tinfoil adder, but very like anti-mainstream media. And then it kind of trickles into... different beliefs that different people have and then that influencing you.
Speaker #1
Go home, Roger.
Speaker #0
Yeah, go outside. Get off your phone. Yeah, go outside.
Speaker #1
Get off your gaming chair. Oh, Gazza has a gaming chair.
Speaker #0
I do. Accidentally, accidentally.
Speaker #1
I don't watch Love is Blind. I feel like I've maybe seen clips of when it came out years ago because there was some contestant who got, like, used to get quite drunk.
Speaker #0
Oh, nice.
Speaker #1
And she had a golden retriever. That's kind of all I know about it. But I saw something yesterday and then I was like Googling it and I was like, God, this is nuts. So basically this couple matched and are you then, do you see each other once you propose or whatever?
Speaker #0
Once you propose. I watched season one, I think.
Speaker #1
This guy then, they go on, do they go on a trip after?
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
Yeah, so they go on a trip and then I started seeing this clip of him talking to her and it's when they're... they've gone on the trip together so they've hung out and then I think they're calling it like is it the Pilates chat heard around the world or something like that but there's this scene it is so uncomfortable and it's this guy called Chris Fusco and it's gone viral oh for telling fiance yeah Jessica Barrett I'll do the quote he goes for me and he's stuttering and stuff he is for me just to be totally honest without sounding like an effing dickhead I don't know how to say it in the normal world I date people who fucking do crossfit and shit oh and then he goes i usually date women who do pilates every day or crossfit he's kind of body sorry he is body shaming her basically and she's this girl is a doctor oh my god and she's kind of like trying to figure it out and he's like um and she's like are you saying you don't like my body like that it's also she's a size uk size 8 ps And he's like, like, I just don't know. And I think she cries then. That's all I've seen, basically. And then afterwards, they basically don't end up together, obviously. But there's so many things going on. If you put it into like Instagram and stuff of like what people are saying, what's actually happening versus what he's saying and stuff like that. And there's this thing on Instagram. It was like someone said Love is Blind is basically a socioeconomic time capsule. The women have careers, homes and emotional intelligence. The men have roommates, red flags and complicated backstories in inverted commas.
Speaker #0
Roommates, red flags.
Speaker #1
A perfect microcosm of modern dating. And then these psychologists are doing little tiny studies on it, being like, they're everyone's praising the girl for being like, I'm not going to try and make you love me. Like, that's not what I'm here to do. And everyone's like saying she's such a queen. And then there's loads of these like Pilates groups that are like, Chris, we saw you and we don't want you anywhere near our studio. But then there's this, like, a psychologist who says, this is really interesting. He goes, this isn't about the gym. Chris is a guy who consistently goes for women who are out of his league. I'm sorry also to point out, she is very out of his league. So he's saying it to her. I think they call him a hobbit or something. Anyway, Chris consistently goes for women who are out of his league. I don't mean that as an insult. I mean it more critically. When a man with fragile self-esteem chooses a partner, he's not choosing her. He's choosing what she reflects back at him. Her value is what makes him feel valuable. He's not selecting her. He's selecting his own value through her. Once she is real, has an actual body, opinions and doesn't do Pilates every day, the fantasy collapses. He needed her as a concept more than an actual person. So he left. It looks like standards, but that's not it. It's a man who is terrified of being truly known by someone who is clearly better than him and getting out before that becomes undeniable. Whoa. My God. His self-esteem is built entirely on external architecture, looks, dating, history, and who wants him. The second that gets threatened, he's off.
Speaker #0
Wow, what a read.
Speaker #1
Sorry, is that not the most intelligent thing you've ever heard?
Speaker #0
Caught him in two. That's incredible.
Speaker #1
Isn't it? And there's loads of different psychologists and stuff talking about it. Being like, have you seen this scene? Like, it's nuts.
Speaker #0
I just think it's like mental that because you hear of that stuff happening in maths as well being like oh I just I really go for girls who look after themselves or you see it on like dating on hinge profiles it was like looking for like act an active girl.
Speaker #1
I know someone who left a date because did he say he only wants to go out with people who exercise or who are fit or something and he said it rudely and she was like I'm actually standing up for women and Talking about,
Speaker #0
yeah, this is the... stand for feminism. Yeah,
Speaker #1
she's super active like it wasn't for her.
Speaker #0
Oh my God.
Speaker #1
Isn't that nuts?
Speaker #0
What I love about those dating shows, they are good, what you said about like, they are a good snapshot into how people are thinking of the time. And it's just like, the expectation he has to be treated really nicely and like have a glamorous, gorgeous girl surrounding him who do Pilates seven times a day, you know, but then doesn't afford anyone the same in return.
Speaker #1
But it's like when she becomes there and she's attainable because she's there.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
And she's saying like, yeah, I'll marry you. It's almost like he's like, oh, wait, I could probably get someone else.
Speaker #0
Yeah. There's a better one coming along somewhere else.
Speaker #1
Because she's actually a real person. Yeah. This girl that's in front of him.
Speaker #0
And there's safety in the fantasy.
Speaker #1
Totally.
Speaker #0
Whereas like she sounded like a real, like a what? man to quote Gary Bradshaw. I am a what man.
Speaker #1
I am a what man. And then I think they have a conversation a few weeks later when they all have some party or something. And he's like, you know, I really like you. Like, you're beautiful. You've dark features. And she's like, I'm not here to hear about why I'm beautiful. All the people, like the psychologists and stuff like that, who are commenting on it, they're like, this girl is unbelievable.
Speaker #0
Going back to that, like, safety thing. If you just constantly We... It's a bit like how I used to be about like wanting to be with like a six foot ten man. You know, people can get in the day in the dating world. You can get so fixated on like the physical and like for him, it's like, oh, she needs to be tickle these boxes and look a certain way that you you miss out on loads of real people and a chance at a real relationship. And somebody that will actually like to be your partner and challenge you. So it's like, oh, I'm just going to, I'll stick to this way and then be with somebody that wouldn't challenge you or wouldn't, but they hit the boxes in other ways.
Speaker #1
But it's also probably like an avoidance thing.
Speaker #0
Sorry, said far better than I. Yes, avoidance.
Speaker #1
Because it's like, no, I'm not going to go with him because he's not X and I won't go with him because he's not Y. It's just an avoidance thing because you don't want to get close to someone because it's so confronting that you're like, no,
Speaker #0
You use it as an excuse. Exactly.
Speaker #1
Are we psychologists?
Speaker #0
I think this is our doctor.
Speaker #1
We need to get a prescription pad and two pairs of glasses.
Speaker #0
And like a load of certs in the background.
Speaker #1
And really awful handwriting that no one can read.
Speaker #0
That no one can read. And a signature that's just a squiggle.
Speaker #1
You know when you give like a GP's thing and the person in the pharmacy is like... What's that saying? I'm like, it's what you knew. I don't know.
Speaker #0
And then it looks like you're trying to like scam drugs up front.
Speaker #1
Yeah. Just be really like, do real wobbly writing. Anyway, I don't watch Love is Blind, but like that lady is just so fabulous. Look up the clips because it's like there's some major psychology stuff going on.
Speaker #0
Wow. Yeah. I got down with Chris. What a small minded man.
Speaker #1
There's another guy. Is it Alex? And he's like. So basically I lived in, I was in Ohio and in Cincinnati and then I went out down to Austin. But then actually I got a year off. I got a severance pay and he's doing this thing and he can't catch up. Like it's all made up or not made up. I don't know what it is. But they're calling him a hobosexual because he's like won't commit to where he lived.
Speaker #0
Oh, that tickled me.
Speaker #1
I don't have it in my wheelhouse to be watching Love is Blind, but those two things were very, very nourishing. We had a real man-centred episode, didn't we?
Speaker #0
And we love men. Sorry, we do.
Speaker #1
I love men.
Speaker #0
We have many men friends and we come at this with compassion. We're just talking about what's in the news, really. Perhaps just so happens to be a big old manly episode this week.
Speaker #1
Yeah, I didn't think they'd be such a... We really did talk about men the whole time.
Speaker #0
Yeah, yeah. Between Pilates Chris and fucking HSTKTK, men are not having a good week.
Speaker #1
Yeah, they're not, are they?
Speaker #0
Look, we are compassionate girlies. We're on a vibe with the men.
Speaker #1
The normal ones.
Speaker #0
Give them a cuddle and send them to therapy.
Speaker #1
Seriously. Just a quick therapy session.
Speaker #0
Just a little boost your day.
Speaker #1
I know, exactly.
Speaker #0
Gazza I believe it's my turn for a record oh yes so you got your record for us this week what could it be?
Speaker #1
I have a funky music one for you I love Madonna's Like A Prayer there are so many remixes and I'm going to put this remix I think it's called that's one of our wedding songs it's brilliant yeah it's the seven is it seven inch remix edit? I'll put it in the show notes it is so fly Thank you. There's the second one that I'll put in. It's like a prayer, but it's called Churchapella, which is like a churchy remix.
Speaker #0
Love Obsessed.
Speaker #1
Really good. I've listened to it several times today. Get you in the mood, girls. Thank you so much for listening. We hope you enjoyed our chat on the strange men that are cropping up across the media. But just a reminder, we love the good men, which there are loads of. Don't forget to follow us on Instagram, House of Gossip Pod. at classicbanan at soap underscore lions. Send us stuff if you want us to review it. Also, thank you all so much for celebrating with us for Clara's golden child who is en route. We're very excited. And it will be the first hoglet.
Speaker #0
Yes, a little hoglet. The trap dog. My God,
Speaker #1
what will they wear?
Speaker #0
I know.
Speaker #1
Garments, yes. Feathers, etc.
Speaker #0
Glitter.
Speaker #1
I hope you have a great week and we'll talk to you real soon. All right. Bye. Oh, it's St. Patrick's Day.
Speaker #0
Oh, fuck.
Speaker #1
Ladies, sorry. Hang on. Hang on.
Speaker #0
Laugh a little more.
Speaker #1
It's St. Patrick's Day today. It's also my mom's birthday today.
Speaker #0
Yay.
Speaker #1
Yay.
Speaker #0
Happy birthday to you.
Speaker #1
Happy St. Patrick's Day.
Speaker #0
Woo.
Speaker #1
Whoa.
Speaker #0
You.

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