Ep #51 - Enter The German Market With Trade Shows | International Corner

Description

Breaking into Germany can be challenging—but trade shows are a powerful way to build trust, meet decision-makers, and establish credibility. In this episode of International Corner Podcast,Barbara Georgjan Limpa, founder of Interrelations and Quest Germany, shares her 16+ years of experience helping international B2B companies succeed.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

Why trade shows matter in Germany: Build trust, meet decision-makers, and establish credibility.
The 3-phase approach to market entry: From research and scouting to market entry and sales growth.
Timing & preparation secrets: How to plan months ahead to maximize ROI, including pre-booking meetings and targeted outreach.
Team & resource tips: Optimal booth sizes, team roles, and the “minimum viable preparation” if time is tight.
The power of speaking slots: Position your company as an industry expert and accelerate market traction.
Regional strategies: Why Germany’s decentralized structure requires thoughtful location and partner targeting.
Realistic ROI expectations: How to measure success in long sales cycles and set achievable KPIs.

Tune in to discover actionable strategies to make your trade show investment pay off!

More about Barbara:

Barbara Gjurgjan Lempa is the founder of Interrelations and creator of Quest Germany, a market-entry program that helps international B2B companies expand into Germany with structure, credibility, and traction.
With over 15 years of experience guiding SMEs through trade shows, business development, and cross-cultural strategy, she combines practical market insight with a hands-on consulting approach.
Barbara has supported clients from more than 20 countries and is passionate about helping businesses turn “German complexity” into predictable growth.

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Transcription

Speaker #0
So Germany is a very structured country mentality. It's trust-based and it's also reference-driven market. So those buyers, they want to see the seriousness. They want to see consistency. They want to see some proof of relevance. And when they meet companies at a trade show, they see exactly this.
Speaker #1
Hello everyone and welcome to International Corner, the podcast that helps you open and thrive in foreign markets. This is Steve here, your host speaking, and today we're diving into the world of trade shows and how they can be a game changer for companies looking to break into the German markets. I am joined by Barbara Georgial-Limpa. Founder of Interrelations and Quest Germany, who has spent over 16 years helping international B2B companies succeed in Germany. Barbara will share her expert insight on how to plan, prepare and maximize your trade show presence, from timing and team strategy to regional targeting and ROI expectations. If you've ever wondered how to turn trade shows into a powerful market entry tool, this episode is for you. Let's get started. Hi, Barbara. Thank you so much for joining in into the International Corner Podcast. How are you doing today?
Speaker #0
Great. Thank you for having me.
Speaker #1
It's a pleasure. I'm very excited to talk about trade shows. But before digging into today's matter, can you start by introducing yourself to the audience and why you believe that you are relevant to speak about this theme?
Speaker #0
Thank you. Sure. I'm happy to introduce myself. My name is Barbara Georgian-Lempa. I'm the founder of Interrelations and the program Quest Germany, where I support international companies, B2B companies entering and growing on the German market. I was born in Croatia, but I've been living in Germany for over 22 years now, studied international negotiations, and then built my entire professional life here in Germany around international business. And for over 16 years now, I've worked... with foreign companies from over 30 countries, helping them understand how this market really works, how to position themselves, how to find and build long-term business relationships in Germany. And a huge part of that has been trade shows. So I've supported teams through Medica, Anuga, Hannover, a lot of trade shows, over hundreds of them in the last year or so. I've seen the full spectrum of companies, some getting incredible attractions because they prepare well, have everything set out. And I've seen a lot of companies also wasting a lot of money because the trade shows is just another marketing tool in their program and not really taken seriously. So I've walked the halls of many trade shows with my clients, sat in their meetings. prepared, worked on them on their pitch, introduced them to a lot of potential partners, and even saw some deals really going to waste because the follow-up hasn't been done properly. So everything I will share today comes from real projects, real clients, and lessons learned in the last 16 years.
Speaker #1
Oh my god, everything that you've been mentioning, it rings a bell. I think it probably speaks to a lot of us. And I'm quite excited to dig around the German market as well, because it's quite a hard market to break into, I believe. And before getting into that, so we got that concept called the icebreaker at the beginning of every episode. So just imagine you have a dice, there's six faces, pick a number, and I will read you a question.
Speaker #0
Okay, let's try number four.
Speaker #1
number five Four. Okay. If you could go back in time, what's an advice that you would give to yourself that would help you be better now or be better, you know, like sooner than what you discovered?
Speaker #0
That's a very interesting one. So what would help me be better now? Well, maybe on that turning point, when I moved to Germany at a young age, I was 22, a little bit of... not taking things more personal, too personal. Like I come from Southern Mediterranean country. We tend to interpret a lot of things into the non- uh spoken word like the context the atmosphere and there was many times in germany where i felt like maybe i don't belong here maybe this is not the right way uh with years i learned this but yeah i took some lessons to go there maybe that would be the one okay
Speaker #1
i mean i'm sure that a lot of us are quite familiar with this one as well especially when you move to another country discover another culture there's a lot of self-discovery that happens So thanks a lot for sharing that with us. And now onto today's topic. So we will focus on the German market, but obviously everything we're going to talk about around the trade shows, like this is applicable to probably any type of market, but just because this is based on your experience. So maybe first question, why are trade shows such an effective way or an effective entry point for international companies that want to enter the German market?
Speaker #0
So that's a good question. And the reason is very simple. So Germany is a very structured country mentality. It's trust-based and it's also reference-driven market. So those buyers, they want to see the seriousness. They want to see consistency. They want to see some proof of relevance. And when they meet companies at a trade show, they see exactly this. So there's also a way to... meet a lot of decision makers at one place. So for companies coming from abroad, it saves a lot of money instead of traveling from meeting to meeting to see all the decision makers in one city, at one event. So another thing is, especially for Germans, I'm not sure if it's for all other markets, but for Germany especially, Germans are not that old. open people, let's say. They're not that open to start trusting you in an international context, especially. So they take their time to build trust. And trade shows is actually a place where they all come together to do exactly this, to network, to get to know other people. So their role changes at a trade show. They are here to meet, to talk, to build new conversations. And here's exactly where then the companies can use this to get into those discussions, to get to the decision maker, to open the doors well. And also they build a little bit of credibility because if they're there, they show that Germany is not just something they're trying out from far away. They're here, they're present, they invest their time, so it gives on both sides an advantage to meet and to open. And even, for example, the biggest issue at the trade show is that the companies are a little bit afraid that the people they meet are salespeople and other exhibitors at the booth. But actually, this is also an advantage and a very often unused one. Because they get a chance to talk to the salespeople of a company, a certain company, a certain lead they want to meet. They can use all this information from them because they are here to talk. They're here to present their company. And when you learn about your leads, exactly what they need, how do they sell, where do they sell to, what their issues are, what their challenges are, then you can also make a better pitch afterwards. You can make a better connection. You can offer them exactly the solutions that they need. So there's a lot of... advantages into going to a trade show.
Speaker #1
I would agree with that. Usually there's a lot of conversation that happens. I think one aspect that's quite hard to figure out is maybe when to leverage it. Because sometimes and I'm talking from my perspective or others, because I've had some discussions in the past is that if it's too early, you don't know anyone, you don't have any contacts, like is it really going to be worth going there? Do you have any advice on you when we should during that market entry journey leverage trade shows like when to action it very important yes so timing can really make uh make or break the whole efforts of especially
Speaker #0
in germany so i see all the market entry uh phases uh then dialed down into three of those so first one is the research phase or the qualifying phase of the market so you this is not the part where you sell this is some this is the part where you learn you're um trying to understand the market observe uh the other the competitors um gather some leads um finding what you're positioning and this is A little bit like scouting, you go to a trade show, you as a visitor and a small team, you don't invest as much at the beginning. And then the phase two is entering the market. So this is where you already have some warm leads. This is the phase where you know which companies matter, you know who you want to meet. You get some pre-booked meetings and you can use the trade show for real door opening. And the phase three is the sales growth. this is um latest the biggest step when you're already considering exhibiting maybe where your messaging is clear when you exactly know your goals or the whole foundation is in place so my recommendation definitely don't start exhibit don't go exhibiting too early and i've actually had examples of this i can share um actually one of my first one of my first one-on-one clients was a cosmetic company, Natural Cosmetics. They came to Vivanest, that's a part of Biofacht, organic cosmetic show, and they called me in just short before, a couple of weeks, I think two weeks before, they would come to Nuremberg to do a trade show and I should help them set their ROI or, you know, return on investment and help them have a good show. So they invested in a booth. They spent a lot of money into team, into marketing, into everything that goes around the trade show. It can be really a big investment. But they didn't do the groundwork. So they didn't have prearranged meetings. They didn't have an exact plan. They didn't know who they want to meet. There was a lot of questions out there. Here I jumped in and first thing I did was, for example, research the other exhibitors who were there. So when I knew, okay, there could be some B2B leads for them, I was the one on the ground for them going through the halls and the booths, actually the part where they were in this phase first, that was their job, but they were cut down in all the organizational work on their booth and then had to be there. So we got some nice B2B meetings, but this was just like... yeah a rescue uh mission actually and this is something after this this was already i think 14 years ago after this i always analyze first with my clients are they ready is this the right moment is this the right exhibition yeah there's a lot of a lot of questions to be asked before you come to the trade show because i've seen also differently a year afterwards i had a client who had everything done, prepared. They knew exactly what they're looking for. They had a list of leads. They were even participating in the Congress, which was a part of the trade show, having a speech there. And of course, you can imagine which one of those had better results afterwards.
Speaker #1
But I want to come back because you mentioned there are three phases, right? Like the research phase, the entering the market phase, and the sales growth. So while you're a little bit more... Let's say you have a bit more progress in there. Does that mean that in terms of exhibiting, so really having a booth, like you don't necessarily recommend before what, like at least phase two, right?
Speaker #0
Yes, yes, definitely. So there's a lot of advantages you can take out of only visiting the booth or the trade show. So it doesn't mean that you already have to invest so much money into the booth and everything. If you do it properly, if you prepare, yourself, let's say, three to five meetings pre-arranged in advance at the trade show. So your return on investment here is a much higher one than if you're preparing to exhibit. Because when you're preparing to exhibit, you have so many costs around it and so many of them are not, you cannot calculate them if they're going to be returned or not. There's phases where I would say at the beginning, definitely worth a visit. first and afterwards exhibit when you exactly know when you who are you reaching also um visiting has so many advantages you're not tied to that booth you have the options to go from one meeting to another you are flexible in the city as well you can maybe go a little bit early have a early dinner with a prospect or a client or lead there is so many um things that can turn uh as a benefit for you if you're just visiting in the first phase.
Speaker #1
You mentioned preparation, and I think you said multiple times, and especially on our interview before this conversation, that it's important to plan ahead of time. You even mentioned six months, which I think in all regards can be difficult for some people to plan six months ahead of time. But just wanted to get your perspective on what that timeline looking like from very early on, maybe research to actually booking meetings with prospects.
Speaker #0
Yes, sure. Of course. So six months is ideal. Some companies do know already next year if they're going to come to an event or not. But for some, if they decide like last minute to jump in on the train and be a fast exhibitor, this is usually not so successful. So planning, I say ideally six months, of course, it's not for everybody like that. But let me walk you through my line of thought for the six months preparations, how they look like. So First of all, in that six months in advance, you choose the right fair. Also, an important question. I always say, choose the fair, the event where your clients are and not your competitors. A lot of companies make that mistake. Again, they see their biggest competitors, they're at a certain exhibition, and they go there. There is a lot of other ways to really find out where are your ideal customers or ideal partners. and go to that show. Sometimes it's a different one and sometimes you're the only one out of your category. I've seen this, I can give you an example, I've seen this at the Medica show, a translation office having its own booth because they're specializing in translation for medical services. Or my client where I went for them to the trade show, their CNC metal service providers. So they didn't go to the metal show. They went to the industry show for packaging systems because that's where the industry is, who is building something, who needs their metal frames and metal services, which they can do for that. And we had a lot of success on that show in this case. So always look which show fits you best. And of course, you need to research your competitors, research your exhibitors who are there. A lot of unused potential lies in the other exhibitors where you can find some B2B development topics to talk to them. Then you need to understand the market expectations, which of your USPs, what really makes a difference in the targeted market here in Germany. Or maybe also prepare all the marketing around the show. How will you use it? And of course, the logical details like booking your hotels, not to be underestimated. The prices of the hotels in Germany rise three times during the show. So booking that in advance is also an interesting thing. So this was a six months. This is like really the starters. Like four months in before the show is maybe the most important, the critical phase, I would say. This is where you build those leads. So you have 30 to 50 companies. you or potential partners you really know why you want to meet them where they are then you're preparing the pitch especially for them targeting especially this market segment if you have a lot of offering you need to narrow it down and find your niche and stand to it you warm up your network and you start scheduling those meetings yes germany is a very um organ is organized in the the meeting of time. So you need to take consideration, need at least one. month in advance to get those meetings. And this is if you're being very fast and already have the conversation. So it takes time to get those meetings. And my goal, my ideal scenario is that you have those meetings online already before. So in these four months before the trade show. So this means you start already those discussions. You already get them warmed up. You already start maybe exploring some potential corporations. You make a company presentation In this case, when you meet on the spot at a trade show, you will already be sealing the deal maybe, or just adding this personal conversation to it. So this is why I think there's four months before that's the really important phase. And of course...
Speaker #1
Maybe a quick question on what you mentioned, because... The way I would say that some trade shows work is that sometimes ahead of time, you do have like a list of attendees or you have a platform where you have like everyone and then, you know, right, so like you can you can scrap the list and then do your work. But here we are really talking about trade shows in which like you actually have no idea who's going to be there. You're never going to have any idea. So When you reach out to them ahead of time, do you use the fact of your presence at this trade show as an entry point to try and start your conversations? Or do you just do normal outreach and then at some point you're like, hey, are you going to be in there in two months time? Because we can also meet in real life there.
Speaker #0
Exactly. In four months time. I say start sooner the better and use this. This is your leverage. So it means if a company is coming to Germany. In six months, they can already start using this. So this is a show of credibility. They are here, they're present, and this will be the place to meet them once they review the materials, once they meet online, and it gives them a sense of ease. It's not just company from abroad, which I will never meet, or it's not just one of those thousands of emails that the German buyers do get daily in their inbox. So it does defer you and it should definitely be a goal to set up a meeting at the trade show and of course ideally set up a meeting even in advance, after online or video. And then afterwards in the second phase, two to three months before, yeah, you moved into execution. So booking those meetings, preparing all the materials. clarifying the team roles where there's so many team members with you who does the talking, who does the selling, who is writing the follow-up, how does everything work, setting exact goals to each of the company. This means in those two to three months before you really have goals and targets that you can then afterwards orient yourself, was there a return on investment? Because if you set those goals, let's say five, new partners from Germany, maybe some international as well, some company trade shows are international. It gives you this measurement which you need or guidance which you need to follow through and to understand was it worth the investment. And of course, two to three weeks before. Just the end, the last month is there are so many organizational things. to do and use and your marketing team will be doing their thing and planning your whole days around it and also don't forget the field research once you're already in Germany don't fly in for the trade show and fly back like I always do for my clients but it's also a place where you use to go on ground so reserve a day or two on the ground to see those I don't know depending on the industry your points of sale or your partners or even your competitors, maybe some industry meeting takes place or maybe some tour of a company or your industry which you can book. So talk to the salespeople at your sales points. I don't know if it's medicine. Go to pharmacies. Go to some hospitals. Use that time on the ground since you're already traveling to do that. So this is two to three. four weeks, like a month before, it's the organizational part and there's no time anymore to really do this groundwork. And that's why I say start early.
Speaker #1
Yeah, I understand. And one question I had for you is that what's your typical number of people that you recommend to go to an event? Let's say if you do have a booth or if you don't have a booth, right?
Speaker #0
That's an interesting question. Well, depending, of course, on the company and on the possibilities you have. I would say for a visit, a minimum of two would be good. That's the minimum. But, you know, I've seen small teams win a lot. I've seen big teams not winning a lot. So I think that the whole preparation part is the more important one where you have your goals and then you have... people who pull them through. And sometimes the smaller goals are also good if they reach 200%. So depending a little bit on the targets. But I would say two is the minimum for a booth size. It means three or four would be like for a small booth minimum. The more the better, but also not so big because the roles inside the team, especially for small and medium-sized companies sometimes. It's like a little bit, everybody does everything. And so a little bit dividing the roles does help organizational approach and nothing gets forgotten or neglected on the way.
Speaker #1
Again, you emphasized how important it is to plan ahead of time, six months. But what if, what if, I don't know, it's two months before the trade show and I just noticed that... There's this ritual happening, should I still go or is it a waste of time?
Speaker #0
It's also possible. There's something I call minimal viable preparation, which you need. Let's say you make a really targeted research of companies that you want to see, not 300, like 10 to 15. These are your research companies and you know what you want to talk about to each and every one of them. You must prepare your 10-minute pitch, which needs to really sit and be great. You have your simple CRM sheets, notes to take during the show. You prioritize maybe learning. If this is a visit and you're just like into the scouting, then you have this also as a return on investment because those market insights you get on the grounds are different than the ones you get online. Even though you can get a lot of information online, it's much different if you come into conversation with people in your market segment. So you get some real data out there preparing your questions, which you want to find out the answers to. And of course, prearranged meetings. So I would say like a minimum goal should be to have at least three meetings to fly over and go there. because Also, three good meetings can make a big return on investment for some companies, depending on the goals. But under three meetings, I don't think just to go and scout and look around, it's not going to be any return on investment. It can be maybe seen as luxury a little bit.
Speaker #1
But the thing is that usually if I do make the decision two months ahead to say go, Then chances are that you want to book your tickets ahead of time. So let's say you actually don't manage to get those meetings then too late, right?
Speaker #0
Yes. Well, depending on what your goals are, your goals must be set. So if you have a goal to just, you know, like I've seen this in the fashion industry to go and get inspired because you're a creative brand, then yes. Or you send your marketing team to see what the competitors are doing. and have those type of inside information, then yes. But for business development purposes, I would say don't go if you don't have prepared meetings of companies you want to meet. Because also, even if you say, but I know my 10, 20 companies, I've seen this also, companies come to me, but I know who I want to see. You still don't know if they're going to be on the booth, the right decision makers, if they're going to want to talk to you. And if they're going to be open to talk about collaboration, like I mentioned before, sometimes the buyers are just not there. It's salespeople only. And sometimes they're not so happy to, you know, make some inside information public or connect to even. And at the end, just gathering those business cards, as some companies see as their goal. Well, this is not really a lot. Business cards and email addresses are.
Speaker #1
also possible to be found online and for that you can save a lot of money i see what you mean now if we focus a little bit about the details as a choice right as you mentioned like sometimes there's also like opportunities to to speak right so like speaking slots like is that something that actually you believe really bring values or it's not necessary definitely that brings a lot of value.
Speaker #0
So this sets you up to be the market expert in your niche, in your focus, wherever your company is working in. So I would definitely advise this. It gives you also an opportunity to share this news. through and use it in your own marketing, in your own pitch. It shows you credibility. You have already spoken on an industry event in Germany. So this means you're already with both feet in Germany, even if you're maybe not really yet there. It shows your readiness. It shows you to be the expert. It shows your company to have good solutions. Otherwise, they wouldn't be speaking at the event. So there's a lot of advantages. and I've seen companies just now at Medica, I've seen a wonderful company, not yet in Germany, but speaking at three events this year and getting traction very fast and very well from exactly the targeted companies. So it can be used in a great way.
Speaker #1
So like, you know, when you're at a trade show, so exhibiting and usually there's like a mix, right? Like of conferences happening at the same time and then you have times where like they just go around the aisles to meet people is it worse for the sales people that are on the booth to go on those sessions that are in between times you know where people are around the booth or do you think that it's just like a loss of time because anyways everyone is sad and listened to listens to something so it's quite useless
Speaker #0
to actually be in there well it's important to set your own goals so So if you have your own agenda, if you already have. 20 leads, let's say. You did the groundwork we were talking about the first half an hour, then you have already enough to do. But I've seen some those type of sessions who were well organized with a lot of matchmaking character, but these are not all. So a little bit of thinking just to expect the trade show who has let's say a couple of thousand exhibitors to organize exactly something that you're looking for is a bit of a high hope. I always say make your own plans and set your own goals. And if this tour of, let's say, I don't know, some area of the exhibition brings you exactly to the companies you want to meet, then yes, use that. But other than that, I would say better to plan your own ways or how to proceed at the trade show.
Speaker #1
Okay, clear. And you mentioned a little bit of regionalization. I think that Germany is one of the markets that's the most decentralized in Europe. If you compare it to France, France, most of the business happens around Paris. I mean, you know, I mean, you still have to say it's still the case right now. So how do you like, like, what's your advice? Like, should we really plan on going to even based on regions we want to target in Germany? Or what's your take in there?
Speaker #0
Yes, well, there are different events. So there are regional events, there are big international events. For the international event, actually, the place where it takes place doesn't play the role. Regional, yes. But of course, a lot of companies forget when they think about Germany. They see only a market of 82 million people. A great shoot, but everybody... forgets that it's 16 countries actually. Each of them even have sometimes different rules, different laws to some areas. If we stay in the medical segment, different reimbursement for the products system. There's a lot of ways to use the regionality for your benefit. For example, if you target especially one region partner up with regional partners you go for industry clusters in the region like but you can also go very wrong i have some examples for you for example i had a client in the gourmet high high cost high price segment in food with some exclusive products they were targeting berlin And when we switch this to Munich, where more of the, let's say, also international hotel guests and some, it's called Feinkost in Germany, it's a little bit more expensive food segment, chain shops for this type of food, there we found much better partners. So there is differences. To give you some, let's say, industry clusters type of overview, we have in Bavaria, like in Munich, Nuremberg, Augsburg, we have industrial automation, we have advanced manufacturing, construction, medtech, and in this area also some trade shows. It's good for, like let's say premium B2C, high value B2B segment. We have North Rhine Westphalia, direction France and the Netherlands. Düsseldorf, Cologne. So there you have healthcare, packaging, retail, chemical industries. Düsseldorf is a fashion hub as well. And Cologne, maybe for food. St. Anuga, trade show, a big one. And then you have some different ones. Berlin is a startup region with a lot of newly modern startups. So there's a lot of differences. Choosing a fair is not just about the fair. It's also about where do you want to end up? Because it's also for those big shows, which we mentioned, the regional. German partners who maybe don't go to a big international show will go if it's in their city. Then it's much easier for them. It's just a short jump to the fair, let's say.
Speaker #1
There is an aspect of localization in your prospecting before you get in there. You can still target ideal customer profiles. If you're planning to go to a Berlin show, you can still target people.
Speaker #0
living around berlin definitely definitely and again using that time around the show there too before to set up those meetings in the in the offices of the your prospects or you know visiting the the point of sales uh
Speaker #1
all very important points definitely yes that's exactly what we did three weeks ago we attended a show from a partner in in london and we did start So we only had a month to be fair, but we did manage to book like three meetings, you know, like the day before going to the show. So I think not bad.
Speaker #0
Very good.
Speaker #1
One important aspect maybe that I wanted to mention here, because that's what CEOs, etc., they're looking after, right? ROI, return on investment. I think it's always tricky when we talk about trade shows because there's always this notion of... What kind of ROI should you, can you actually expect? Because usually what you hear is that, okay, so we've done a trade show six months ago. How many deals have you closed? But what I find is that especially if you are on the higher end kind of targets with sales cycles going minimum from nine to, I don't know, a year, year and a half, your return on investment is going to be very hard to calculate. And you're going to, you're going to frustrate. Your CEO or whoever is your boss, you know, who's like waiting for, okay, what's going on now?
Speaker #0
Exactly. Especially, yeah, welcome to Germany, I would say to that. This is a typical main challenge of going into Germany. So this is a very slow market. Everything takes time. So even getting that meeting takes time. I'm glad you didn't have to set up three meetings a couple of weeks in advance in Germany, because that would be very difficult. Everything takes time. So, it's very important to set those goals. So, those goals must be very clear. Let's say you set three, or let's say you're coming to the German trade show and you have a goal of three to five, or let's say five German partners. You can follow up, but you must be realistic. You can follow up your, you know, calculating your return on investment, but you must be realistic around the time. So you had a set of three to five and in six months and after the show. So now we're moving to that after the trade show where the real work actually begins. And if you still have contact with those, and if you still have meetings, and if you're in the negotiation phase or contract signing phase or evaluation phase, depending on which stage you're in, this means you're still on track. So this means your return on investment is still there. The sales cycle, the real partnership begins, of course, with the first order or with the first signed contract and order. So... It does take time to be realistic there, but if there is no stop in the conversation or a stop or a clear no, which is also fine, then you know where you're at. But if it's after the show and six months in, you're still in discussions with those companies, then you're in the good way. And then there's just a timing issue that needs to be maybe prolonged to get to those error eyes.
Speaker #1
Yeah, for sure. And happy you actually went over it because what I am taking here is that we can also like as long as, for instance, you still have open opportunities, let's call them this way. It's still something as an ROI to take from, as you mentioned, because if you're like in long sales cycle, like obviously you couldn't expect to have something closed within the next six months. Of course, if you have shorter ones, like just a few weeks, yes. but maybe depending on where we are sitting in terms of sales cycle, type of product, the solution we are selling, like we should try and get realistic KPIs to be able to measure against our achievements.
Speaker #0
Yes, definitely. And not to forget also marketing goals, which are not so easy to track and to, especially depending, of course, on the market segment we're talking about. But if it's a consumer product, if it's not... solely B2B product, then you have, of course, brand awareness, which you're building, but also in the B2B segment. So there's a brand awareness in B2B segment. And if we use what we discussed just a moment ago, those sessions, those speaking slots, which you had at the Congress or something, or the trade show Congress, you can use those for a long time afterwards. So there's a lot of ROI here involved into a marketing investment. So you can use those, yeah, those presence at a trade show as a leverage later to show credibility, to show your brand name. It's really investment into this B2B marketing, which is also a very important one.
Speaker #1
I didn't want to show ROI because... Usually in conversation, you only have closing numbers that matter the most.
Speaker #0
Well, of course, closing numbers must be the goal at the end. There's no point in discussing years if there is no goal in mind. So it must be there, definitely. But of course, it just needs to be taken realistically when it will be achieved.
Speaker #1
Yeah, absolutely. I think setting expectations is very important. But thanks a lot, Barbara, for your insights around the topic. And before closing this episode, let's move to that last part of every episode, which is the Oops, My Bad time. Whoops,
Speaker #0
my bad.
Speaker #1
So for those who tune in the first time, it's a few minutes at the end of each session for the guest to share a setback or something that went wrong during an expansion mission. So Barbara, do you maybe have stories from your clients to tell us so that we can learn from?
Speaker #0
Well, yes, there are stories in both directions. Usually the one pain point, let's say, or the one point where maybe the consulting part is not as easy as in others where there's clear steps is in setting the right USPs or pushing the right, finding the right positioning in Germany. So I've seen clients with... wonderful products. So they had tested the clinical results. They have a lot of end users stories, but for the B2B segment, they were looking for a partner in Germany. This was not enough. There was a lot of companies out there. So really working on how to differentiate yourself in case, for example, you are Um, a company who has competitors from Germany. This means you're an outsider coming to the market and you have local competitors. This is where your biggest challenge lies. Here, it's very, very needed to guide yourself to get some point of difference from those others. This is maybe the most difficult part because it takes a lot of energy also from the company, from the CEO down to marketing the whole team that needs to work around this, who needs to understand the local market and find the right way to really explain what they're working and focus on those things that come very well in Germany with the consumers and with the partners as well. Maybe another one is service providers. Actually, I love working with service providers, but it does make a lot of a challenge for them. Let's say it can be engineering, it can be IT, it can be some I mentioned before CNC like metal work service provider. All of those type of companies which target industries in Germany, they go to industry trade shows to present their services, they can do a lot. And that's great, but it's also a big problem for them in terms, again, of marketing, in terms of showing up as an expert, because you cannot come... to a German company and say, you're an expert for everything. So nobody's going to believe this. Germans are very precise. So saying we can do a lot of different things without really proof for each in this one sentence, which is maybe not possible to do by using normal words. Everything you need to really focus on the niche. And this needs also deep research in advance of the lead, what can you offer him, where he would profit from your service, and then only talk about this. Because the problem is from the companies, they want to show their skills, their knowledge, their experience in so many different areas that the other side gets a bit bored through that, maybe let's say like that, or even loses the credibility because they think, yeah, yeah, right nobody can do all of that or
Speaker #1
It's typical, but it's also very European. When you go to the US, they know how to talk about just what's of interest to you. And I think that's something we would win better if we would actually focus on that one or two things that the prospect wants.
Speaker #0
Definitely. I always say, find examples. of successful clients or projects you did for a company who is very similar to them. You don't have to name them, you don't have to say who they are, but you can give an example. So you can say with companies like yours in maybe another country, maybe in another market segment, but you find something that is comparable to this company you're talking to with your successful project. that you then explain how well you work together, why did you work so well together, and what were the steps that you took. So this means painting a clear picture in the head of the German buyer of a stress-free relationship for the future. So it's possible you've done it before and only focus on that and not going into this wide portfolio of services or products you might have.
Speaker #1
Well, Barbara, Thanks a lot for everything that you shared today about like how to leverage trade shows, especially in Germany, to be able to break into that difficult market. Just have to tell you until next time then.
Speaker #0
I wonder about to be here. Thank you very much.
Speaker #1
Thank you. Have a good one. Bye bye.
Speaker #0
Bye.
Speaker #1
Thank you so much for listening until the end. If you liked this episode, don't forget to subscribe to not miss the next one. And please share it with... two people in your network. This is how this podcast gets more visibility and can help more of us to work on international markets. See you soon.

About International Corner

International Corner is the podcast that helps you open and thrive in foreign markets!

I'm welcoming international experts to share their secret recipes and their setbacks to help you successfully sell in foreign markets.

A bit about me :

After opening the US market for a French scaleup 5 years ago, I realized how hard it is to sell in foreign markets and how scarce the free available content is.

Therefore, I decided to create this podcast to centralize all the knowledge from experts from all over the world. I'm doing this as a side-project, I have nothing to sell, just doing it out of passion for the topic. And if I can help you become better at selling internationally, then my objective is complete ;)

Would love to hear your feedback, connect with me on Linkedin Tiphaine Le Roux

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

About International Corner

International Corner is the podcast that helps you open and thrive in foreign markets!

I'm welcoming international experts to share their secret recipes and their setbacks to help you successfully sell in foreign markets.

A bit about me :

After opening the US market for a French scaleup 5 years ago, I realized how hard it is to sell in foreign markets and how scarce the free available content is.

Would love to hear your feedback, connect with me on Linkedin Tiphaine Le Roux

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Description

In this episode, you’ll learn:

Why trade shows matter in Germany: Build trust, meet decision-makers, and establish credibility.
The 3-phase approach to market entry: From research and scouting to market entry and sales growth.
Timing & preparation secrets: How to plan months ahead to maximize ROI, including pre-booking meetings and targeted outreach.
Team & resource tips: Optimal booth sizes, team roles, and the “minimum viable preparation” if time is tight.
The power of speaking slots: Position your company as an industry expert and accelerate market traction.
Regional strategies: Why Germany’s decentralized structure requires thoughtful location and partner targeting.
Realistic ROI expectations: How to measure success in long sales cycles and set achievable KPIs.

Tune in to discover actionable strategies to make your trade show investment pay off!

More about Barbara:

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Transcription

Speaker #0
So Germany is a very structured country mentality. It's trust-based and it's also reference-driven market. So those buyers, they want to see the seriousness. They want to see consistency. They want to see some proof of relevance. And when they meet companies at a trade show, they see exactly this.
Speaker #1
Hello everyone and welcome to International Corner, the podcast that helps you open and thrive in foreign markets. This is Steve here, your host speaking, and today we're diving into the world of trade shows and how they can be a game changer for companies looking to break into the German markets. I am joined by Barbara Georgial-Limpa. Founder of Interrelations and Quest Germany, who has spent over 16 years helping international B2B companies succeed in Germany. Barbara will share her expert insight on how to plan, prepare and maximize your trade show presence, from timing and team strategy to regional targeting and ROI expectations. If you've ever wondered how to turn trade shows into a powerful market entry tool, this episode is for you. Let's get started. Hi, Barbara. Thank you so much for joining in into the International Corner Podcast. How are you doing today?
Speaker #0
Great. Thank you for having me.
Speaker #1
It's a pleasure. I'm very excited to talk about trade shows. But before digging into today's matter, can you start by introducing yourself to the audience and why you believe that you are relevant to speak about this theme?
Speaker #0
Thank you. Sure. I'm happy to introduce myself. My name is Barbara Georgian-Lempa. I'm the founder of Interrelations and the program Quest Germany, where I support international companies, B2B companies entering and growing on the German market. I was born in Croatia, but I've been living in Germany for over 22 years now, studied international negotiations, and then built my entire professional life here in Germany around international business. And for over 16 years now, I've worked... with foreign companies from over 30 countries, helping them understand how this market really works, how to position themselves, how to find and build long-term business relationships in Germany. And a huge part of that has been trade shows. So I've supported teams through Medica, Anuga, Hannover, a lot of trade shows, over hundreds of them in the last year or so. I've seen the full spectrum of companies, some getting incredible attractions because they prepare well, have everything set out. And I've seen a lot of companies also wasting a lot of money because the trade shows is just another marketing tool in their program and not really taken seriously. So I've walked the halls of many trade shows with my clients, sat in their meetings. prepared, worked on them on their pitch, introduced them to a lot of potential partners, and even saw some deals really going to waste because the follow-up hasn't been done properly. So everything I will share today comes from real projects, real clients, and lessons learned in the last 16 years.
Speaker #1
Oh my god, everything that you've been mentioning, it rings a bell. I think it probably speaks to a lot of us. And I'm quite excited to dig around the German market as well, because it's quite a hard market to break into, I believe. And before getting into that, so we got that concept called the icebreaker at the beginning of every episode. So just imagine you have a dice, there's six faces, pick a number, and I will read you a question.
Speaker #0
Okay, let's try number four.
Speaker #1
number five Four. Okay. If you could go back in time, what's an advice that you would give to yourself that would help you be better now or be better, you know, like sooner than what you discovered?
Speaker #0
That's a very interesting one. So what would help me be better now? Well, maybe on that turning point, when I moved to Germany at a young age, I was 22, a little bit of... not taking things more personal, too personal. Like I come from Southern Mediterranean country. We tend to interpret a lot of things into the non- uh spoken word like the context the atmosphere and there was many times in germany where i felt like maybe i don't belong here maybe this is not the right way uh with years i learned this but yeah i took some lessons to go there maybe that would be the one okay
Speaker #1
i mean i'm sure that a lot of us are quite familiar with this one as well especially when you move to another country discover another culture there's a lot of self-discovery that happens So thanks a lot for sharing that with us. And now onto today's topic. So we will focus on the German market, but obviously everything we're going to talk about around the trade shows, like this is applicable to probably any type of market, but just because this is based on your experience. So maybe first question, why are trade shows such an effective way or an effective entry point for international companies that want to enter the German market?
Speaker #0
So that's a good question. And the reason is very simple. So Germany is a very structured country mentality. It's trust-based and it's also reference-driven market. So those buyers, they want to see the seriousness. They want to see consistency. They want to see some proof of relevance. And when they meet companies at a trade show, they see exactly this. So there's also a way to... meet a lot of decision makers at one place. So for companies coming from abroad, it saves a lot of money instead of traveling from meeting to meeting to see all the decision makers in one city, at one event. So another thing is, especially for Germans, I'm not sure if it's for all other markets, but for Germany especially, Germans are not that old. open people, let's say. They're not that open to start trusting you in an international context, especially. So they take their time to build trust. And trade shows is actually a place where they all come together to do exactly this, to network, to get to know other people. So their role changes at a trade show. They are here to meet, to talk, to build new conversations. And here's exactly where then the companies can use this to get into those discussions, to get to the decision maker, to open the doors well. And also they build a little bit of credibility because if they're there, they show that Germany is not just something they're trying out from far away. They're here, they're present, they invest their time, so it gives on both sides an advantage to meet and to open. And even, for example, the biggest issue at the trade show is that the companies are a little bit afraid that the people they meet are salespeople and other exhibitors at the booth. But actually, this is also an advantage and a very often unused one. Because they get a chance to talk to the salespeople of a company, a certain company, a certain lead they want to meet. They can use all this information from them because they are here to talk. They're here to present their company. And when you learn about your leads, exactly what they need, how do they sell, where do they sell to, what their issues are, what their challenges are, then you can also make a better pitch afterwards. You can make a better connection. You can offer them exactly the solutions that they need. So there's a lot of... advantages into going to a trade show.
Speaker #1
I would agree with that. Usually there's a lot of conversation that happens. I think one aspect that's quite hard to figure out is maybe when to leverage it. Because sometimes and I'm talking from my perspective or others, because I've had some discussions in the past is that if it's too early, you don't know anyone, you don't have any contacts, like is it really going to be worth going there? Do you have any advice on you when we should during that market entry journey leverage trade shows like when to action it very important yes so timing can really make uh make or break the whole efforts of especially
Speaker #0
in germany so i see all the market entry uh phases uh then dialed down into three of those so first one is the research phase or the qualifying phase of the market so you this is not the part where you sell this is some this is the part where you learn you're um trying to understand the market observe uh the other the competitors um gather some leads um finding what you're positioning and this is A little bit like scouting, you go to a trade show, you as a visitor and a small team, you don't invest as much at the beginning. And then the phase two is entering the market. So this is where you already have some warm leads. This is the phase where you know which companies matter, you know who you want to meet. You get some pre-booked meetings and you can use the trade show for real door opening. And the phase three is the sales growth. this is um latest the biggest step when you're already considering exhibiting maybe where your messaging is clear when you exactly know your goals or the whole foundation is in place so my recommendation definitely don't start exhibit don't go exhibiting too early and i've actually had examples of this i can share um actually one of my first one of my first one-on-one clients was a cosmetic company, Natural Cosmetics. They came to Vivanest, that's a part of Biofacht, organic cosmetic show, and they called me in just short before, a couple of weeks, I think two weeks before, they would come to Nuremberg to do a trade show and I should help them set their ROI or, you know, return on investment and help them have a good show. So they invested in a booth. They spent a lot of money into team, into marketing, into everything that goes around the trade show. It can be really a big investment. But they didn't do the groundwork. So they didn't have prearranged meetings. They didn't have an exact plan. They didn't know who they want to meet. There was a lot of questions out there. Here I jumped in and first thing I did was, for example, research the other exhibitors who were there. So when I knew, okay, there could be some B2B leads for them, I was the one on the ground for them going through the halls and the booths, actually the part where they were in this phase first, that was their job, but they were cut down in all the organizational work on their booth and then had to be there. So we got some nice B2B meetings, but this was just like... yeah a rescue uh mission actually and this is something after this this was already i think 14 years ago after this i always analyze first with my clients are they ready is this the right moment is this the right exhibition yeah there's a lot of a lot of questions to be asked before you come to the trade show because i've seen also differently a year afterwards i had a client who had everything done, prepared. They knew exactly what they're looking for. They had a list of leads. They were even participating in the Congress, which was a part of the trade show, having a speech there. And of course, you can imagine which one of those had better results afterwards.
Speaker #1
But I want to come back because you mentioned there are three phases, right? Like the research phase, the entering the market phase, and the sales growth. So while you're a little bit more... Let's say you have a bit more progress in there. Does that mean that in terms of exhibiting, so really having a booth, like you don't necessarily recommend before what, like at least phase two, right?
Speaker #0
Yes, yes, definitely. So there's a lot of advantages you can take out of only visiting the booth or the trade show. So it doesn't mean that you already have to invest so much money into the booth and everything. If you do it properly, if you prepare, yourself, let's say, three to five meetings pre-arranged in advance at the trade show. So your return on investment here is a much higher one than if you're preparing to exhibit. Because when you're preparing to exhibit, you have so many costs around it and so many of them are not, you cannot calculate them if they're going to be returned or not. There's phases where I would say at the beginning, definitely worth a visit. first and afterwards exhibit when you exactly know when you who are you reaching also um visiting has so many advantages you're not tied to that booth you have the options to go from one meeting to another you are flexible in the city as well you can maybe go a little bit early have a early dinner with a prospect or a client or lead there is so many um things that can turn uh as a benefit for you if you're just visiting in the first phase.
Speaker #1
You mentioned preparation, and I think you said multiple times, and especially on our interview before this conversation, that it's important to plan ahead of time. You even mentioned six months, which I think in all regards can be difficult for some people to plan six months ahead of time. But just wanted to get your perspective on what that timeline looking like from very early on, maybe research to actually booking meetings with prospects.
Speaker #0
Yes, sure. Of course. So six months is ideal. Some companies do know already next year if they're going to come to an event or not. But for some, if they decide like last minute to jump in on the train and be a fast exhibitor, this is usually not so successful. So planning, I say ideally six months, of course, it's not for everybody like that. But let me walk you through my line of thought for the six months preparations, how they look like. So First of all, in that six months in advance, you choose the right fair. Also, an important question. I always say, choose the fair, the event where your clients are and not your competitors. A lot of companies make that mistake. Again, they see their biggest competitors, they're at a certain exhibition, and they go there. There is a lot of other ways to really find out where are your ideal customers or ideal partners. and go to that show. Sometimes it's a different one and sometimes you're the only one out of your category. I've seen this, I can give you an example, I've seen this at the Medica show, a translation office having its own booth because they're specializing in translation for medical services. Or my client where I went for them to the trade show, their CNC metal service providers. So they didn't go to the metal show. They went to the industry show for packaging systems because that's where the industry is, who is building something, who needs their metal frames and metal services, which they can do for that. And we had a lot of success on that show in this case. So always look which show fits you best. And of course, you need to research your competitors, research your exhibitors who are there. A lot of unused potential lies in the other exhibitors where you can find some B2B development topics to talk to them. Then you need to understand the market expectations, which of your USPs, what really makes a difference in the targeted market here in Germany. Or maybe also prepare all the marketing around the show. How will you use it? And of course, the logical details like booking your hotels, not to be underestimated. The prices of the hotels in Germany rise three times during the show. So booking that in advance is also an interesting thing. So this was a six months. This is like really the starters. Like four months in before the show is maybe the most important, the critical phase, I would say. This is where you build those leads. So you have 30 to 50 companies. you or potential partners you really know why you want to meet them where they are then you're preparing the pitch especially for them targeting especially this market segment if you have a lot of offering you need to narrow it down and find your niche and stand to it you warm up your network and you start scheduling those meetings yes germany is a very um organ is organized in the the meeting of time. So you need to take consideration, need at least one. month in advance to get those meetings. And this is if you're being very fast and already have the conversation. So it takes time to get those meetings. And my goal, my ideal scenario is that you have those meetings online already before. So in these four months before the trade show. So this means you start already those discussions. You already get them warmed up. You already start maybe exploring some potential corporations. You make a company presentation In this case, when you meet on the spot at a trade show, you will already be sealing the deal maybe, or just adding this personal conversation to it. So this is why I think there's four months before that's the really important phase. And of course...
Speaker #1
Maybe a quick question on what you mentioned, because... The way I would say that some trade shows work is that sometimes ahead of time, you do have like a list of attendees or you have a platform where you have like everyone and then, you know, right, so like you can you can scrap the list and then do your work. But here we are really talking about trade shows in which like you actually have no idea who's going to be there. You're never going to have any idea. So When you reach out to them ahead of time, do you use the fact of your presence at this trade show as an entry point to try and start your conversations? Or do you just do normal outreach and then at some point you're like, hey, are you going to be in there in two months time? Because we can also meet in real life there.
Speaker #0
Exactly. In four months time. I say start sooner the better and use this. This is your leverage. So it means if a company is coming to Germany. In six months, they can already start using this. So this is a show of credibility. They are here, they're present, and this will be the place to meet them once they review the materials, once they meet online, and it gives them a sense of ease. It's not just company from abroad, which I will never meet, or it's not just one of those thousands of emails that the German buyers do get daily in their inbox. So it does defer you and it should definitely be a goal to set up a meeting at the trade show and of course ideally set up a meeting even in advance, after online or video. And then afterwards in the second phase, two to three months before, yeah, you moved into execution. So booking those meetings, preparing all the materials. clarifying the team roles where there's so many team members with you who does the talking, who does the selling, who is writing the follow-up, how does everything work, setting exact goals to each of the company. This means in those two to three months before you really have goals and targets that you can then afterwards orient yourself, was there a return on investment? Because if you set those goals, let's say five, new partners from Germany, maybe some international as well, some company trade shows are international. It gives you this measurement which you need or guidance which you need to follow through and to understand was it worth the investment. And of course, two to three weeks before. Just the end, the last month is there are so many organizational things. to do and use and your marketing team will be doing their thing and planning your whole days around it and also don't forget the field research once you're already in Germany don't fly in for the trade show and fly back like I always do for my clients but it's also a place where you use to go on ground so reserve a day or two on the ground to see those I don't know depending on the industry your points of sale or your partners or even your competitors, maybe some industry meeting takes place or maybe some tour of a company or your industry which you can book. So talk to the salespeople at your sales points. I don't know if it's medicine. Go to pharmacies. Go to some hospitals. Use that time on the ground since you're already traveling to do that. So this is two to three. four weeks, like a month before, it's the organizational part and there's no time anymore to really do this groundwork. And that's why I say start early.
Speaker #1
Yeah, I understand. And one question I had for you is that what's your typical number of people that you recommend to go to an event? Let's say if you do have a booth or if you don't have a booth, right?
Speaker #0
That's an interesting question. Well, depending, of course, on the company and on the possibilities you have. I would say for a visit, a minimum of two would be good. That's the minimum. But, you know, I've seen small teams win a lot. I've seen big teams not winning a lot. So I think that the whole preparation part is the more important one where you have your goals and then you have... people who pull them through. And sometimes the smaller goals are also good if they reach 200%. So depending a little bit on the targets. But I would say two is the minimum for a booth size. It means three or four would be like for a small booth minimum. The more the better, but also not so big because the roles inside the team, especially for small and medium-sized companies sometimes. It's like a little bit, everybody does everything. And so a little bit dividing the roles does help organizational approach and nothing gets forgotten or neglected on the way.
Speaker #1
Again, you emphasized how important it is to plan ahead of time, six months. But what if, what if, I don't know, it's two months before the trade show and I just noticed that... There's this ritual happening, should I still go or is it a waste of time?
Speaker #0
It's also possible. There's something I call minimal viable preparation, which you need. Let's say you make a really targeted research of companies that you want to see, not 300, like 10 to 15. These are your research companies and you know what you want to talk about to each and every one of them. You must prepare your 10-minute pitch, which needs to really sit and be great. You have your simple CRM sheets, notes to take during the show. You prioritize maybe learning. If this is a visit and you're just like into the scouting, then you have this also as a return on investment because those market insights you get on the grounds are different than the ones you get online. Even though you can get a lot of information online, it's much different if you come into conversation with people in your market segment. So you get some real data out there preparing your questions, which you want to find out the answers to. And of course, prearranged meetings. So I would say like a minimum goal should be to have at least three meetings to fly over and go there. because Also, three good meetings can make a big return on investment for some companies, depending on the goals. But under three meetings, I don't think just to go and scout and look around, it's not going to be any return on investment. It can be maybe seen as luxury a little bit.
Speaker #1
But the thing is that usually if I do make the decision two months ahead to say go, Then chances are that you want to book your tickets ahead of time. So let's say you actually don't manage to get those meetings then too late, right?
Speaker #0
Yes. Well, depending on what your goals are, your goals must be set. So if you have a goal to just, you know, like I've seen this in the fashion industry to go and get inspired because you're a creative brand, then yes. Or you send your marketing team to see what the competitors are doing. and have those type of inside information, then yes. But for business development purposes, I would say don't go if you don't have prepared meetings of companies you want to meet. Because also, even if you say, but I know my 10, 20 companies, I've seen this also, companies come to me, but I know who I want to see. You still don't know if they're going to be on the booth, the right decision makers, if they're going to want to talk to you. And if they're going to be open to talk about collaboration, like I mentioned before, sometimes the buyers are just not there. It's salespeople only. And sometimes they're not so happy to, you know, make some inside information public or connect to even. And at the end, just gathering those business cards, as some companies see as their goal. Well, this is not really a lot. Business cards and email addresses are.
Speaker #1
also possible to be found online and for that you can save a lot of money i see what you mean now if we focus a little bit about the details as a choice right as you mentioned like sometimes there's also like opportunities to to speak right so like speaking slots like is that something that actually you believe really bring values or it's not necessary definitely that brings a lot of value.
Speaker #0
So this sets you up to be the market expert in your niche, in your focus, wherever your company is working in. So I would definitely advise this. It gives you also an opportunity to share this news. through and use it in your own marketing, in your own pitch. It shows you credibility. You have already spoken on an industry event in Germany. So this means you're already with both feet in Germany, even if you're maybe not really yet there. It shows your readiness. It shows you to be the expert. It shows your company to have good solutions. Otherwise, they wouldn't be speaking at the event. So there's a lot of advantages. and I've seen companies just now at Medica, I've seen a wonderful company, not yet in Germany, but speaking at three events this year and getting traction very fast and very well from exactly the targeted companies. So it can be used in a great way.
Speaker #1
So like, you know, when you're at a trade show, so exhibiting and usually there's like a mix, right? Like of conferences happening at the same time and then you have times where like they just go around the aisles to meet people is it worse for the sales people that are on the booth to go on those sessions that are in between times you know where people are around the booth or do you think that it's just like a loss of time because anyways everyone is sad and listened to listens to something so it's quite useless
Speaker #0
to actually be in there well it's important to set your own goals so So if you have your own agenda, if you already have. 20 leads, let's say. You did the groundwork we were talking about the first half an hour, then you have already enough to do. But I've seen some those type of sessions who were well organized with a lot of matchmaking character, but these are not all. So a little bit of thinking just to expect the trade show who has let's say a couple of thousand exhibitors to organize exactly something that you're looking for is a bit of a high hope. I always say make your own plans and set your own goals. And if this tour of, let's say, I don't know, some area of the exhibition brings you exactly to the companies you want to meet, then yes, use that. But other than that, I would say better to plan your own ways or how to proceed at the trade show.
Speaker #1
Okay, clear. And you mentioned a little bit of regionalization. I think that Germany is one of the markets that's the most decentralized in Europe. If you compare it to France, France, most of the business happens around Paris. I mean, you know, I mean, you still have to say it's still the case right now. So how do you like, like, what's your advice? Like, should we really plan on going to even based on regions we want to target in Germany? Or what's your take in there?
Speaker #0
Yes, well, there are different events. So there are regional events, there are big international events. For the international event, actually, the place where it takes place doesn't play the role. Regional, yes. But of course, a lot of companies forget when they think about Germany. They see only a market of 82 million people. A great shoot, but everybody... forgets that it's 16 countries actually. Each of them even have sometimes different rules, different laws to some areas. If we stay in the medical segment, different reimbursement for the products system. There's a lot of ways to use the regionality for your benefit. For example, if you target especially one region partner up with regional partners you go for industry clusters in the region like but you can also go very wrong i have some examples for you for example i had a client in the gourmet high high cost high price segment in food with some exclusive products they were targeting berlin And when we switch this to Munich, where more of the, let's say, also international hotel guests and some, it's called Feinkost in Germany, it's a little bit more expensive food segment, chain shops for this type of food, there we found much better partners. So there is differences. To give you some, let's say, industry clusters type of overview, we have in Bavaria, like in Munich, Nuremberg, Augsburg, we have industrial automation, we have advanced manufacturing, construction, medtech, and in this area also some trade shows. It's good for, like let's say premium B2C, high value B2B segment. We have North Rhine Westphalia, direction France and the Netherlands. Düsseldorf, Cologne. So there you have healthcare, packaging, retail, chemical industries. Düsseldorf is a fashion hub as well. And Cologne, maybe for food. St. Anuga, trade show, a big one. And then you have some different ones. Berlin is a startup region with a lot of newly modern startups. So there's a lot of differences. Choosing a fair is not just about the fair. It's also about where do you want to end up? Because it's also for those big shows, which we mentioned, the regional. German partners who maybe don't go to a big international show will go if it's in their city. Then it's much easier for them. It's just a short jump to the fair, let's say.
Speaker #1
There is an aspect of localization in your prospecting before you get in there. You can still target ideal customer profiles. If you're planning to go to a Berlin show, you can still target people.
Speaker #0
living around berlin definitely definitely and again using that time around the show there too before to set up those meetings in the in the offices of the your prospects or you know visiting the the point of sales uh
Speaker #1
all very important points definitely yes that's exactly what we did three weeks ago we attended a show from a partner in in london and we did start So we only had a month to be fair, but we did manage to book like three meetings, you know, like the day before going to the show. So I think not bad.
Speaker #0
Very good.
Speaker #1
One important aspect maybe that I wanted to mention here, because that's what CEOs, etc., they're looking after, right? ROI, return on investment. I think it's always tricky when we talk about trade shows because there's always this notion of... What kind of ROI should you, can you actually expect? Because usually what you hear is that, okay, so we've done a trade show six months ago. How many deals have you closed? But what I find is that especially if you are on the higher end kind of targets with sales cycles going minimum from nine to, I don't know, a year, year and a half, your return on investment is going to be very hard to calculate. And you're going to, you're going to frustrate. Your CEO or whoever is your boss, you know, who's like waiting for, okay, what's going on now?
Speaker #0
Exactly. Especially, yeah, welcome to Germany, I would say to that. This is a typical main challenge of going into Germany. So this is a very slow market. Everything takes time. So even getting that meeting takes time. I'm glad you didn't have to set up three meetings a couple of weeks in advance in Germany, because that would be very difficult. Everything takes time. So, it's very important to set those goals. So, those goals must be very clear. Let's say you set three, or let's say you're coming to the German trade show and you have a goal of three to five, or let's say five German partners. You can follow up, but you must be realistic. You can follow up your, you know, calculating your return on investment, but you must be realistic around the time. So you had a set of three to five and in six months and after the show. So now we're moving to that after the trade show where the real work actually begins. And if you still have contact with those, and if you still have meetings, and if you're in the negotiation phase or contract signing phase or evaluation phase, depending on which stage you're in, this means you're still on track. So this means your return on investment is still there. The sales cycle, the real partnership begins, of course, with the first order or with the first signed contract and order. So... It does take time to be realistic there, but if there is no stop in the conversation or a stop or a clear no, which is also fine, then you know where you're at. But if it's after the show and six months in, you're still in discussions with those companies, then you're in the good way. And then there's just a timing issue that needs to be maybe prolonged to get to those error eyes.
Speaker #1
Yeah, for sure. And happy you actually went over it because what I am taking here is that we can also like as long as, for instance, you still have open opportunities, let's call them this way. It's still something as an ROI to take from, as you mentioned, because if you're like in long sales cycle, like obviously you couldn't expect to have something closed within the next six months. Of course, if you have shorter ones, like just a few weeks, yes. but maybe depending on where we are sitting in terms of sales cycle, type of product, the solution we are selling, like we should try and get realistic KPIs to be able to measure against our achievements.
Speaker #0
Yes, definitely. And not to forget also marketing goals, which are not so easy to track and to, especially depending, of course, on the market segment we're talking about. But if it's a consumer product, if it's not... solely B2B product, then you have, of course, brand awareness, which you're building, but also in the B2B segment. So there's a brand awareness in B2B segment. And if we use what we discussed just a moment ago, those sessions, those speaking slots, which you had at the Congress or something, or the trade show Congress, you can use those for a long time afterwards. So there's a lot of ROI here involved into a marketing investment. So you can use those, yeah, those presence at a trade show as a leverage later to show credibility, to show your brand name. It's really investment into this B2B marketing, which is also a very important one.
Speaker #1
I didn't want to show ROI because... Usually in conversation, you only have closing numbers that matter the most.
Speaker #0
Well, of course, closing numbers must be the goal at the end. There's no point in discussing years if there is no goal in mind. So it must be there, definitely. But of course, it just needs to be taken realistically when it will be achieved.
Speaker #1
Yeah, absolutely. I think setting expectations is very important. But thanks a lot, Barbara, for your insights around the topic. And before closing this episode, let's move to that last part of every episode, which is the Oops, My Bad time. Whoops,
Speaker #0
my bad.
Speaker #1
So for those who tune in the first time, it's a few minutes at the end of each session for the guest to share a setback or something that went wrong during an expansion mission. So Barbara, do you maybe have stories from your clients to tell us so that we can learn from?
Speaker #0
Well, yes, there are stories in both directions. Usually the one pain point, let's say, or the one point where maybe the consulting part is not as easy as in others where there's clear steps is in setting the right USPs or pushing the right, finding the right positioning in Germany. So I've seen clients with... wonderful products. So they had tested the clinical results. They have a lot of end users stories, but for the B2B segment, they were looking for a partner in Germany. This was not enough. There was a lot of companies out there. So really working on how to differentiate yourself in case, for example, you are Um, a company who has competitors from Germany. This means you're an outsider coming to the market and you have local competitors. This is where your biggest challenge lies. Here, it's very, very needed to guide yourself to get some point of difference from those others. This is maybe the most difficult part because it takes a lot of energy also from the company, from the CEO down to marketing the whole team that needs to work around this, who needs to understand the local market and find the right way to really explain what they're working and focus on those things that come very well in Germany with the consumers and with the partners as well. Maybe another one is service providers. Actually, I love working with service providers, but it does make a lot of a challenge for them. Let's say it can be engineering, it can be IT, it can be some I mentioned before CNC like metal work service provider. All of those type of companies which target industries in Germany, they go to industry trade shows to present their services, they can do a lot. And that's great, but it's also a big problem for them in terms, again, of marketing, in terms of showing up as an expert, because you cannot come... to a German company and say, you're an expert for everything. So nobody's going to believe this. Germans are very precise. So saying we can do a lot of different things without really proof for each in this one sentence, which is maybe not possible to do by using normal words. Everything you need to really focus on the niche. And this needs also deep research in advance of the lead, what can you offer him, where he would profit from your service, and then only talk about this. Because the problem is from the companies, they want to show their skills, their knowledge, their experience in so many different areas that the other side gets a bit bored through that, maybe let's say like that, or even loses the credibility because they think, yeah, yeah, right nobody can do all of that or
Speaker #1
It's typical, but it's also very European. When you go to the US, they know how to talk about just what's of interest to you. And I think that's something we would win better if we would actually focus on that one or two things that the prospect wants.
Speaker #0
Definitely. I always say, find examples. of successful clients or projects you did for a company who is very similar to them. You don't have to name them, you don't have to say who they are, but you can give an example. So you can say with companies like yours in maybe another country, maybe in another market segment, but you find something that is comparable to this company you're talking to with your successful project. that you then explain how well you work together, why did you work so well together, and what were the steps that you took. So this means painting a clear picture in the head of the German buyer of a stress-free relationship for the future. So it's possible you've done it before and only focus on that and not going into this wide portfolio of services or products you might have.
Speaker #1
Well, Barbara, Thanks a lot for everything that you shared today about like how to leverage trade shows, especially in Germany, to be able to break into that difficult market. Just have to tell you until next time then.
Speaker #0
I wonder about to be here. Thank you very much.
Speaker #1
Thank you. Have a good one. Bye bye.
Speaker #0
Bye.
Speaker #1
Thank you so much for listening until the end. If you liked this episode, don't forget to subscribe to not miss the next one. And please share it with... two people in your network. This is how this podcast gets more visibility and can help more of us to work on international markets. See you soon.

About International Corner

International Corner is the podcast that helps you open and thrive in foreign markets!

I'm welcoming international experts to share their secret recipes and their setbacks to help you successfully sell in foreign markets.

A bit about me :

After opening the US market for a French scaleup 5 years ago, I realized how hard it is to sell in foreign markets and how scarce the free available content is.

Would love to hear your feedback, connect with me on Linkedin Tiphaine Le Roux

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

About International Corner

International Corner is the podcast that helps you open and thrive in foreign markets!

I'm welcoming international experts to share their secret recipes and their setbacks to help you successfully sell in foreign markets.

A bit about me :

After opening the US market for a French scaleup 5 years ago, I realized how hard it is to sell in foreign markets and how scarce the free available content is.

Would love to hear your feedback, connect with me on Linkedin Tiphaine Le Roux

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

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Description

In this episode, you’ll learn:

Why trade shows matter in Germany: Build trust, meet decision-makers, and establish credibility.
The 3-phase approach to market entry: From research and scouting to market entry and sales growth.
Timing & preparation secrets: How to plan months ahead to maximize ROI, including pre-booking meetings and targeted outreach.
Team & resource tips: Optimal booth sizes, team roles, and the “minimum viable preparation” if time is tight.
The power of speaking slots: Position your company as an industry expert and accelerate market traction.
Regional strategies: Why Germany’s decentralized structure requires thoughtful location and partner targeting.
Realistic ROI expectations: How to measure success in long sales cycles and set achievable KPIs.

Tune in to discover actionable strategies to make your trade show investment pay off!

More about Barbara:

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Transcription

Speaker #0
So Germany is a very structured country mentality. It's trust-based and it's also reference-driven market. So those buyers, they want to see the seriousness. They want to see consistency. They want to see some proof of relevance. And when they meet companies at a trade show, they see exactly this.
Speaker #1
Hello everyone and welcome to International Corner, the podcast that helps you open and thrive in foreign markets. This is Steve here, your host speaking, and today we're diving into the world of trade shows and how they can be a game changer for companies looking to break into the German markets. I am joined by Barbara Georgial-Limpa. Founder of Interrelations and Quest Germany, who has spent over 16 years helping international B2B companies succeed in Germany. Barbara will share her expert insight on how to plan, prepare and maximize your trade show presence, from timing and team strategy to regional targeting and ROI expectations. If you've ever wondered how to turn trade shows into a powerful market entry tool, this episode is for you. Let's get started. Hi, Barbara. Thank you so much for joining in into the International Corner Podcast. How are you doing today?
Speaker #0
Great. Thank you for having me.
Speaker #1
It's a pleasure. I'm very excited to talk about trade shows. But before digging into today's matter, can you start by introducing yourself to the audience and why you believe that you are relevant to speak about this theme?
Speaker #0
Thank you. Sure. I'm happy to introduce myself. My name is Barbara Georgian-Lempa. I'm the founder of Interrelations and the program Quest Germany, where I support international companies, B2B companies entering and growing on the German market. I was born in Croatia, but I've been living in Germany for over 22 years now, studied international negotiations, and then built my entire professional life here in Germany around international business. And for over 16 years now, I've worked... with foreign companies from over 30 countries, helping them understand how this market really works, how to position themselves, how to find and build long-term business relationships in Germany. And a huge part of that has been trade shows. So I've supported teams through Medica, Anuga, Hannover, a lot of trade shows, over hundreds of them in the last year or so. I've seen the full spectrum of companies, some getting incredible attractions because they prepare well, have everything set out. And I've seen a lot of companies also wasting a lot of money because the trade shows is just another marketing tool in their program and not really taken seriously. So I've walked the halls of many trade shows with my clients, sat in their meetings. prepared, worked on them on their pitch, introduced them to a lot of potential partners, and even saw some deals really going to waste because the follow-up hasn't been done properly. So everything I will share today comes from real projects, real clients, and lessons learned in the last 16 years.
Speaker #1
Oh my god, everything that you've been mentioning, it rings a bell. I think it probably speaks to a lot of us. And I'm quite excited to dig around the German market as well, because it's quite a hard market to break into, I believe. And before getting into that, so we got that concept called the icebreaker at the beginning of every episode. So just imagine you have a dice, there's six faces, pick a number, and I will read you a question.
Speaker #0
Okay, let's try number four.
Speaker #1
number five Four. Okay. If you could go back in time, what's an advice that you would give to yourself that would help you be better now or be better, you know, like sooner than what you discovered?
Speaker #0
That's a very interesting one. So what would help me be better now? Well, maybe on that turning point, when I moved to Germany at a young age, I was 22, a little bit of... not taking things more personal, too personal. Like I come from Southern Mediterranean country. We tend to interpret a lot of things into the non- uh spoken word like the context the atmosphere and there was many times in germany where i felt like maybe i don't belong here maybe this is not the right way uh with years i learned this but yeah i took some lessons to go there maybe that would be the one okay
Speaker #1
i mean i'm sure that a lot of us are quite familiar with this one as well especially when you move to another country discover another culture there's a lot of self-discovery that happens So thanks a lot for sharing that with us. And now onto today's topic. So we will focus on the German market, but obviously everything we're going to talk about around the trade shows, like this is applicable to probably any type of market, but just because this is based on your experience. So maybe first question, why are trade shows such an effective way or an effective entry point for international companies that want to enter the German market?
Speaker #0
So that's a good question. And the reason is very simple. So Germany is a very structured country mentality. It's trust-based and it's also reference-driven market. So those buyers, they want to see the seriousness. They want to see consistency. They want to see some proof of relevance. And when they meet companies at a trade show, they see exactly this. So there's also a way to... meet a lot of decision makers at one place. So for companies coming from abroad, it saves a lot of money instead of traveling from meeting to meeting to see all the decision makers in one city, at one event. So another thing is, especially for Germans, I'm not sure if it's for all other markets, but for Germany especially, Germans are not that old. open people, let's say. They're not that open to start trusting you in an international context, especially. So they take their time to build trust. And trade shows is actually a place where they all come together to do exactly this, to network, to get to know other people. So their role changes at a trade show. They are here to meet, to talk, to build new conversations. And here's exactly where then the companies can use this to get into those discussions, to get to the decision maker, to open the doors well. And also they build a little bit of credibility because if they're there, they show that Germany is not just something they're trying out from far away. They're here, they're present, they invest their time, so it gives on both sides an advantage to meet and to open. And even, for example, the biggest issue at the trade show is that the companies are a little bit afraid that the people they meet are salespeople and other exhibitors at the booth. But actually, this is also an advantage and a very often unused one. Because they get a chance to talk to the salespeople of a company, a certain company, a certain lead they want to meet. They can use all this information from them because they are here to talk. They're here to present their company. And when you learn about your leads, exactly what they need, how do they sell, where do they sell to, what their issues are, what their challenges are, then you can also make a better pitch afterwards. You can make a better connection. You can offer them exactly the solutions that they need. So there's a lot of... advantages into going to a trade show.
Speaker #1
I would agree with that. Usually there's a lot of conversation that happens. I think one aspect that's quite hard to figure out is maybe when to leverage it. Because sometimes and I'm talking from my perspective or others, because I've had some discussions in the past is that if it's too early, you don't know anyone, you don't have any contacts, like is it really going to be worth going there? Do you have any advice on you when we should during that market entry journey leverage trade shows like when to action it very important yes so timing can really make uh make or break the whole efforts of especially
Speaker #0
in germany so i see all the market entry uh phases uh then dialed down into three of those so first one is the research phase or the qualifying phase of the market so you this is not the part where you sell this is some this is the part where you learn you're um trying to understand the market observe uh the other the competitors um gather some leads um finding what you're positioning and this is A little bit like scouting, you go to a trade show, you as a visitor and a small team, you don't invest as much at the beginning. And then the phase two is entering the market. So this is where you already have some warm leads. This is the phase where you know which companies matter, you know who you want to meet. You get some pre-booked meetings and you can use the trade show for real door opening. And the phase three is the sales growth. this is um latest the biggest step when you're already considering exhibiting maybe where your messaging is clear when you exactly know your goals or the whole foundation is in place so my recommendation definitely don't start exhibit don't go exhibiting too early and i've actually had examples of this i can share um actually one of my first one of my first one-on-one clients was a cosmetic company, Natural Cosmetics. They came to Vivanest, that's a part of Biofacht, organic cosmetic show, and they called me in just short before, a couple of weeks, I think two weeks before, they would come to Nuremberg to do a trade show and I should help them set their ROI or, you know, return on investment and help them have a good show. So they invested in a booth. They spent a lot of money into team, into marketing, into everything that goes around the trade show. It can be really a big investment. But they didn't do the groundwork. So they didn't have prearranged meetings. They didn't have an exact plan. They didn't know who they want to meet. There was a lot of questions out there. Here I jumped in and first thing I did was, for example, research the other exhibitors who were there. So when I knew, okay, there could be some B2B leads for them, I was the one on the ground for them going through the halls and the booths, actually the part where they were in this phase first, that was their job, but they were cut down in all the organizational work on their booth and then had to be there. So we got some nice B2B meetings, but this was just like... yeah a rescue uh mission actually and this is something after this this was already i think 14 years ago after this i always analyze first with my clients are they ready is this the right moment is this the right exhibition yeah there's a lot of a lot of questions to be asked before you come to the trade show because i've seen also differently a year afterwards i had a client who had everything done, prepared. They knew exactly what they're looking for. They had a list of leads. They were even participating in the Congress, which was a part of the trade show, having a speech there. And of course, you can imagine which one of those had better results afterwards.
Speaker #1
But I want to come back because you mentioned there are three phases, right? Like the research phase, the entering the market phase, and the sales growth. So while you're a little bit more... Let's say you have a bit more progress in there. Does that mean that in terms of exhibiting, so really having a booth, like you don't necessarily recommend before what, like at least phase two, right?
Speaker #0
Yes, yes, definitely. So there's a lot of advantages you can take out of only visiting the booth or the trade show. So it doesn't mean that you already have to invest so much money into the booth and everything. If you do it properly, if you prepare, yourself, let's say, three to five meetings pre-arranged in advance at the trade show. So your return on investment here is a much higher one than if you're preparing to exhibit. Because when you're preparing to exhibit, you have so many costs around it and so many of them are not, you cannot calculate them if they're going to be returned or not. There's phases where I would say at the beginning, definitely worth a visit. first and afterwards exhibit when you exactly know when you who are you reaching also um visiting has so many advantages you're not tied to that booth you have the options to go from one meeting to another you are flexible in the city as well you can maybe go a little bit early have a early dinner with a prospect or a client or lead there is so many um things that can turn uh as a benefit for you if you're just visiting in the first phase.
Speaker #1
You mentioned preparation, and I think you said multiple times, and especially on our interview before this conversation, that it's important to plan ahead of time. You even mentioned six months, which I think in all regards can be difficult for some people to plan six months ahead of time. But just wanted to get your perspective on what that timeline looking like from very early on, maybe research to actually booking meetings with prospects.
Speaker #0
Yes, sure. Of course. So six months is ideal. Some companies do know already next year if they're going to come to an event or not. But for some, if they decide like last minute to jump in on the train and be a fast exhibitor, this is usually not so successful. So planning, I say ideally six months, of course, it's not for everybody like that. But let me walk you through my line of thought for the six months preparations, how they look like. So First of all, in that six months in advance, you choose the right fair. Also, an important question. I always say, choose the fair, the event where your clients are and not your competitors. A lot of companies make that mistake. Again, they see their biggest competitors, they're at a certain exhibition, and they go there. There is a lot of other ways to really find out where are your ideal customers or ideal partners. and go to that show. Sometimes it's a different one and sometimes you're the only one out of your category. I've seen this, I can give you an example, I've seen this at the Medica show, a translation office having its own booth because they're specializing in translation for medical services. Or my client where I went for them to the trade show, their CNC metal service providers. So they didn't go to the metal show. They went to the industry show for packaging systems because that's where the industry is, who is building something, who needs their metal frames and metal services, which they can do for that. And we had a lot of success on that show in this case. So always look which show fits you best. And of course, you need to research your competitors, research your exhibitors who are there. A lot of unused potential lies in the other exhibitors where you can find some B2B development topics to talk to them. Then you need to understand the market expectations, which of your USPs, what really makes a difference in the targeted market here in Germany. Or maybe also prepare all the marketing around the show. How will you use it? And of course, the logical details like booking your hotels, not to be underestimated. The prices of the hotels in Germany rise three times during the show. So booking that in advance is also an interesting thing. So this was a six months. This is like really the starters. Like four months in before the show is maybe the most important, the critical phase, I would say. This is where you build those leads. So you have 30 to 50 companies. you or potential partners you really know why you want to meet them where they are then you're preparing the pitch especially for them targeting especially this market segment if you have a lot of offering you need to narrow it down and find your niche and stand to it you warm up your network and you start scheduling those meetings yes germany is a very um organ is organized in the the meeting of time. So you need to take consideration, need at least one. month in advance to get those meetings. And this is if you're being very fast and already have the conversation. So it takes time to get those meetings. And my goal, my ideal scenario is that you have those meetings online already before. So in these four months before the trade show. So this means you start already those discussions. You already get them warmed up. You already start maybe exploring some potential corporations. You make a company presentation In this case, when you meet on the spot at a trade show, you will already be sealing the deal maybe, or just adding this personal conversation to it. So this is why I think there's four months before that's the really important phase. And of course...
Speaker #1
Maybe a quick question on what you mentioned, because... The way I would say that some trade shows work is that sometimes ahead of time, you do have like a list of attendees or you have a platform where you have like everyone and then, you know, right, so like you can you can scrap the list and then do your work. But here we are really talking about trade shows in which like you actually have no idea who's going to be there. You're never going to have any idea. So When you reach out to them ahead of time, do you use the fact of your presence at this trade show as an entry point to try and start your conversations? Or do you just do normal outreach and then at some point you're like, hey, are you going to be in there in two months time? Because we can also meet in real life there.
Speaker #0
Exactly. In four months time. I say start sooner the better and use this. This is your leverage. So it means if a company is coming to Germany. In six months, they can already start using this. So this is a show of credibility. They are here, they're present, and this will be the place to meet them once they review the materials, once they meet online, and it gives them a sense of ease. It's not just company from abroad, which I will never meet, or it's not just one of those thousands of emails that the German buyers do get daily in their inbox. So it does defer you and it should definitely be a goal to set up a meeting at the trade show and of course ideally set up a meeting even in advance, after online or video. And then afterwards in the second phase, two to three months before, yeah, you moved into execution. So booking those meetings, preparing all the materials. clarifying the team roles where there's so many team members with you who does the talking, who does the selling, who is writing the follow-up, how does everything work, setting exact goals to each of the company. This means in those two to three months before you really have goals and targets that you can then afterwards orient yourself, was there a return on investment? Because if you set those goals, let's say five, new partners from Germany, maybe some international as well, some company trade shows are international. It gives you this measurement which you need or guidance which you need to follow through and to understand was it worth the investment. And of course, two to three weeks before. Just the end, the last month is there are so many organizational things. to do and use and your marketing team will be doing their thing and planning your whole days around it and also don't forget the field research once you're already in Germany don't fly in for the trade show and fly back like I always do for my clients but it's also a place where you use to go on ground so reserve a day or two on the ground to see those I don't know depending on the industry your points of sale or your partners or even your competitors, maybe some industry meeting takes place or maybe some tour of a company or your industry which you can book. So talk to the salespeople at your sales points. I don't know if it's medicine. Go to pharmacies. Go to some hospitals. Use that time on the ground since you're already traveling to do that. So this is two to three. four weeks, like a month before, it's the organizational part and there's no time anymore to really do this groundwork. And that's why I say start early.
Speaker #1
Yeah, I understand. And one question I had for you is that what's your typical number of people that you recommend to go to an event? Let's say if you do have a booth or if you don't have a booth, right?
Speaker #0
That's an interesting question. Well, depending, of course, on the company and on the possibilities you have. I would say for a visit, a minimum of two would be good. That's the minimum. But, you know, I've seen small teams win a lot. I've seen big teams not winning a lot. So I think that the whole preparation part is the more important one where you have your goals and then you have... people who pull them through. And sometimes the smaller goals are also good if they reach 200%. So depending a little bit on the targets. But I would say two is the minimum for a booth size. It means three or four would be like for a small booth minimum. The more the better, but also not so big because the roles inside the team, especially for small and medium-sized companies sometimes. It's like a little bit, everybody does everything. And so a little bit dividing the roles does help organizational approach and nothing gets forgotten or neglected on the way.
Speaker #1
Again, you emphasized how important it is to plan ahead of time, six months. But what if, what if, I don't know, it's two months before the trade show and I just noticed that... There's this ritual happening, should I still go or is it a waste of time?
Speaker #0
It's also possible. There's something I call minimal viable preparation, which you need. Let's say you make a really targeted research of companies that you want to see, not 300, like 10 to 15. These are your research companies and you know what you want to talk about to each and every one of them. You must prepare your 10-minute pitch, which needs to really sit and be great. You have your simple CRM sheets, notes to take during the show. You prioritize maybe learning. If this is a visit and you're just like into the scouting, then you have this also as a return on investment because those market insights you get on the grounds are different than the ones you get online. Even though you can get a lot of information online, it's much different if you come into conversation with people in your market segment. So you get some real data out there preparing your questions, which you want to find out the answers to. And of course, prearranged meetings. So I would say like a minimum goal should be to have at least three meetings to fly over and go there. because Also, three good meetings can make a big return on investment for some companies, depending on the goals. But under three meetings, I don't think just to go and scout and look around, it's not going to be any return on investment. It can be maybe seen as luxury a little bit.
Speaker #1
But the thing is that usually if I do make the decision two months ahead to say go, Then chances are that you want to book your tickets ahead of time. So let's say you actually don't manage to get those meetings then too late, right?
Speaker #0
Yes. Well, depending on what your goals are, your goals must be set. So if you have a goal to just, you know, like I've seen this in the fashion industry to go and get inspired because you're a creative brand, then yes. Or you send your marketing team to see what the competitors are doing. and have those type of inside information, then yes. But for business development purposes, I would say don't go if you don't have prepared meetings of companies you want to meet. Because also, even if you say, but I know my 10, 20 companies, I've seen this also, companies come to me, but I know who I want to see. You still don't know if they're going to be on the booth, the right decision makers, if they're going to want to talk to you. And if they're going to be open to talk about collaboration, like I mentioned before, sometimes the buyers are just not there. It's salespeople only. And sometimes they're not so happy to, you know, make some inside information public or connect to even. And at the end, just gathering those business cards, as some companies see as their goal. Well, this is not really a lot. Business cards and email addresses are.
Speaker #1
also possible to be found online and for that you can save a lot of money i see what you mean now if we focus a little bit about the details as a choice right as you mentioned like sometimes there's also like opportunities to to speak right so like speaking slots like is that something that actually you believe really bring values or it's not necessary definitely that brings a lot of value.
Speaker #0
So this sets you up to be the market expert in your niche, in your focus, wherever your company is working in. So I would definitely advise this. It gives you also an opportunity to share this news. through and use it in your own marketing, in your own pitch. It shows you credibility. You have already spoken on an industry event in Germany. So this means you're already with both feet in Germany, even if you're maybe not really yet there. It shows your readiness. It shows you to be the expert. It shows your company to have good solutions. Otherwise, they wouldn't be speaking at the event. So there's a lot of advantages. and I've seen companies just now at Medica, I've seen a wonderful company, not yet in Germany, but speaking at three events this year and getting traction very fast and very well from exactly the targeted companies. So it can be used in a great way.
Speaker #1
So like, you know, when you're at a trade show, so exhibiting and usually there's like a mix, right? Like of conferences happening at the same time and then you have times where like they just go around the aisles to meet people is it worse for the sales people that are on the booth to go on those sessions that are in between times you know where people are around the booth or do you think that it's just like a loss of time because anyways everyone is sad and listened to listens to something so it's quite useless
Speaker #0
to actually be in there well it's important to set your own goals so So if you have your own agenda, if you already have. 20 leads, let's say. You did the groundwork we were talking about the first half an hour, then you have already enough to do. But I've seen some those type of sessions who were well organized with a lot of matchmaking character, but these are not all. So a little bit of thinking just to expect the trade show who has let's say a couple of thousand exhibitors to organize exactly something that you're looking for is a bit of a high hope. I always say make your own plans and set your own goals. And if this tour of, let's say, I don't know, some area of the exhibition brings you exactly to the companies you want to meet, then yes, use that. But other than that, I would say better to plan your own ways or how to proceed at the trade show.
Speaker #1
Okay, clear. And you mentioned a little bit of regionalization. I think that Germany is one of the markets that's the most decentralized in Europe. If you compare it to France, France, most of the business happens around Paris. I mean, you know, I mean, you still have to say it's still the case right now. So how do you like, like, what's your advice? Like, should we really plan on going to even based on regions we want to target in Germany? Or what's your take in there?
Speaker #0
Yes, well, there are different events. So there are regional events, there are big international events. For the international event, actually, the place where it takes place doesn't play the role. Regional, yes. But of course, a lot of companies forget when they think about Germany. They see only a market of 82 million people. A great shoot, but everybody... forgets that it's 16 countries actually. Each of them even have sometimes different rules, different laws to some areas. If we stay in the medical segment, different reimbursement for the products system. There's a lot of ways to use the regionality for your benefit. For example, if you target especially one region partner up with regional partners you go for industry clusters in the region like but you can also go very wrong i have some examples for you for example i had a client in the gourmet high high cost high price segment in food with some exclusive products they were targeting berlin And when we switch this to Munich, where more of the, let's say, also international hotel guests and some, it's called Feinkost in Germany, it's a little bit more expensive food segment, chain shops for this type of food, there we found much better partners. So there is differences. To give you some, let's say, industry clusters type of overview, we have in Bavaria, like in Munich, Nuremberg, Augsburg, we have industrial automation, we have advanced manufacturing, construction, medtech, and in this area also some trade shows. It's good for, like let's say premium B2C, high value B2B segment. We have North Rhine Westphalia, direction France and the Netherlands. Düsseldorf, Cologne. So there you have healthcare, packaging, retail, chemical industries. Düsseldorf is a fashion hub as well. And Cologne, maybe for food. St. Anuga, trade show, a big one. And then you have some different ones. Berlin is a startup region with a lot of newly modern startups. So there's a lot of differences. Choosing a fair is not just about the fair. It's also about where do you want to end up? Because it's also for those big shows, which we mentioned, the regional. German partners who maybe don't go to a big international show will go if it's in their city. Then it's much easier for them. It's just a short jump to the fair, let's say.
Speaker #1
There is an aspect of localization in your prospecting before you get in there. You can still target ideal customer profiles. If you're planning to go to a Berlin show, you can still target people.
Speaker #0
living around berlin definitely definitely and again using that time around the show there too before to set up those meetings in the in the offices of the your prospects or you know visiting the the point of sales uh
Speaker #1
all very important points definitely yes that's exactly what we did three weeks ago we attended a show from a partner in in london and we did start So we only had a month to be fair, but we did manage to book like three meetings, you know, like the day before going to the show. So I think not bad.
Speaker #0
Very good.
Speaker #1
One important aspect maybe that I wanted to mention here, because that's what CEOs, etc., they're looking after, right? ROI, return on investment. I think it's always tricky when we talk about trade shows because there's always this notion of... What kind of ROI should you, can you actually expect? Because usually what you hear is that, okay, so we've done a trade show six months ago. How many deals have you closed? But what I find is that especially if you are on the higher end kind of targets with sales cycles going minimum from nine to, I don't know, a year, year and a half, your return on investment is going to be very hard to calculate. And you're going to, you're going to frustrate. Your CEO or whoever is your boss, you know, who's like waiting for, okay, what's going on now?
Speaker #0
Exactly. Especially, yeah, welcome to Germany, I would say to that. This is a typical main challenge of going into Germany. So this is a very slow market. Everything takes time. So even getting that meeting takes time. I'm glad you didn't have to set up three meetings a couple of weeks in advance in Germany, because that would be very difficult. Everything takes time. So, it's very important to set those goals. So, those goals must be very clear. Let's say you set three, or let's say you're coming to the German trade show and you have a goal of three to five, or let's say five German partners. You can follow up, but you must be realistic. You can follow up your, you know, calculating your return on investment, but you must be realistic around the time. So you had a set of three to five and in six months and after the show. So now we're moving to that after the trade show where the real work actually begins. And if you still have contact with those, and if you still have meetings, and if you're in the negotiation phase or contract signing phase or evaluation phase, depending on which stage you're in, this means you're still on track. So this means your return on investment is still there. The sales cycle, the real partnership begins, of course, with the first order or with the first signed contract and order. So... It does take time to be realistic there, but if there is no stop in the conversation or a stop or a clear no, which is also fine, then you know where you're at. But if it's after the show and six months in, you're still in discussions with those companies, then you're in the good way. And then there's just a timing issue that needs to be maybe prolonged to get to those error eyes.
Speaker #1
Yeah, for sure. And happy you actually went over it because what I am taking here is that we can also like as long as, for instance, you still have open opportunities, let's call them this way. It's still something as an ROI to take from, as you mentioned, because if you're like in long sales cycle, like obviously you couldn't expect to have something closed within the next six months. Of course, if you have shorter ones, like just a few weeks, yes. but maybe depending on where we are sitting in terms of sales cycle, type of product, the solution we are selling, like we should try and get realistic KPIs to be able to measure against our achievements.
Speaker #0
Yes, definitely. And not to forget also marketing goals, which are not so easy to track and to, especially depending, of course, on the market segment we're talking about. But if it's a consumer product, if it's not... solely B2B product, then you have, of course, brand awareness, which you're building, but also in the B2B segment. So there's a brand awareness in B2B segment. And if we use what we discussed just a moment ago, those sessions, those speaking slots, which you had at the Congress or something, or the trade show Congress, you can use those for a long time afterwards. So there's a lot of ROI here involved into a marketing investment. So you can use those, yeah, those presence at a trade show as a leverage later to show credibility, to show your brand name. It's really investment into this B2B marketing, which is also a very important one.
Speaker #1
I didn't want to show ROI because... Usually in conversation, you only have closing numbers that matter the most.
Speaker #0
Well, of course, closing numbers must be the goal at the end. There's no point in discussing years if there is no goal in mind. So it must be there, definitely. But of course, it just needs to be taken realistically when it will be achieved.
Speaker #1
Yeah, absolutely. I think setting expectations is very important. But thanks a lot, Barbara, for your insights around the topic. And before closing this episode, let's move to that last part of every episode, which is the Oops, My Bad time. Whoops,
Speaker #0
my bad.
Speaker #1
So for those who tune in the first time, it's a few minutes at the end of each session for the guest to share a setback or something that went wrong during an expansion mission. So Barbara, do you maybe have stories from your clients to tell us so that we can learn from?
Speaker #0
Well, yes, there are stories in both directions. Usually the one pain point, let's say, or the one point where maybe the consulting part is not as easy as in others where there's clear steps is in setting the right USPs or pushing the right, finding the right positioning in Germany. So I've seen clients with... wonderful products. So they had tested the clinical results. They have a lot of end users stories, but for the B2B segment, they were looking for a partner in Germany. This was not enough. There was a lot of companies out there. So really working on how to differentiate yourself in case, for example, you are Um, a company who has competitors from Germany. This means you're an outsider coming to the market and you have local competitors. This is where your biggest challenge lies. Here, it's very, very needed to guide yourself to get some point of difference from those others. This is maybe the most difficult part because it takes a lot of energy also from the company, from the CEO down to marketing the whole team that needs to work around this, who needs to understand the local market and find the right way to really explain what they're working and focus on those things that come very well in Germany with the consumers and with the partners as well. Maybe another one is service providers. Actually, I love working with service providers, but it does make a lot of a challenge for them. Let's say it can be engineering, it can be IT, it can be some I mentioned before CNC like metal work service provider. All of those type of companies which target industries in Germany, they go to industry trade shows to present their services, they can do a lot. And that's great, but it's also a big problem for them in terms, again, of marketing, in terms of showing up as an expert, because you cannot come... to a German company and say, you're an expert for everything. So nobody's going to believe this. Germans are very precise. So saying we can do a lot of different things without really proof for each in this one sentence, which is maybe not possible to do by using normal words. Everything you need to really focus on the niche. And this needs also deep research in advance of the lead, what can you offer him, where he would profit from your service, and then only talk about this. Because the problem is from the companies, they want to show their skills, their knowledge, their experience in so many different areas that the other side gets a bit bored through that, maybe let's say like that, or even loses the credibility because they think, yeah, yeah, right nobody can do all of that or
Speaker #1
It's typical, but it's also very European. When you go to the US, they know how to talk about just what's of interest to you. And I think that's something we would win better if we would actually focus on that one or two things that the prospect wants.
Speaker #0
Definitely. I always say, find examples. of successful clients or projects you did for a company who is very similar to them. You don't have to name them, you don't have to say who they are, but you can give an example. So you can say with companies like yours in maybe another country, maybe in another market segment, but you find something that is comparable to this company you're talking to with your successful project. that you then explain how well you work together, why did you work so well together, and what were the steps that you took. So this means painting a clear picture in the head of the German buyer of a stress-free relationship for the future. So it's possible you've done it before and only focus on that and not going into this wide portfolio of services or products you might have.
Speaker #1
Well, Barbara, Thanks a lot for everything that you shared today about like how to leverage trade shows, especially in Germany, to be able to break into that difficult market. Just have to tell you until next time then.
Speaker #0
I wonder about to be here. Thank you very much.
Speaker #1
Thank you. Have a good one. Bye bye.
Speaker #0
Bye.
Speaker #1
Thank you so much for listening until the end. If you liked this episode, don't forget to subscribe to not miss the next one. And please share it with... two people in your network. This is how this podcast gets more visibility and can help more of us to work on international markets. See you soon.

About International Corner

International Corner is the podcast that helps you open and thrive in foreign markets!

I'm welcoming international experts to share their secret recipes and their setbacks to help you successfully sell in foreign markets.

A bit about me :

After opening the US market for a French scaleup 5 years ago, I realized how hard it is to sell in foreign markets and how scarce the free available content is.

Would love to hear your feedback, connect with me on Linkedin Tiphaine Le Roux

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

About International Corner

International Corner is the podcast that helps you open and thrive in foreign markets!

I'm welcoming international experts to share their secret recipes and their setbacks to help you successfully sell in foreign markets.

A bit about me :

After opening the US market for a French scaleup 5 years ago, I realized how hard it is to sell in foreign markets and how scarce the free available content is.

Would love to hear your feedback, connect with me on Linkedin Tiphaine Le Roux

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Description

In this episode, you’ll learn:

Why trade shows matter in Germany: Build trust, meet decision-makers, and establish credibility.
The 3-phase approach to market entry: From research and scouting to market entry and sales growth.
Timing & preparation secrets: How to plan months ahead to maximize ROI, including pre-booking meetings and targeted outreach.
Team & resource tips: Optimal booth sizes, team roles, and the “minimum viable preparation” if time is tight.
The power of speaking slots: Position your company as an industry expert and accelerate market traction.
Regional strategies: Why Germany’s decentralized structure requires thoughtful location and partner targeting.
Realistic ROI expectations: How to measure success in long sales cycles and set achievable KPIs.

Tune in to discover actionable strategies to make your trade show investment pay off!

More about Barbara:

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Transcription

Speaker #0
So Germany is a very structured country mentality. It's trust-based and it's also reference-driven market. So those buyers, they want to see the seriousness. They want to see consistency. They want to see some proof of relevance. And when they meet companies at a trade show, they see exactly this.
Speaker #1
Hello everyone and welcome to International Corner, the podcast that helps you open and thrive in foreign markets. This is Steve here, your host speaking, and today we're diving into the world of trade shows and how they can be a game changer for companies looking to break into the German markets. I am joined by Barbara Georgial-Limpa. Founder of Interrelations and Quest Germany, who has spent over 16 years helping international B2B companies succeed in Germany. Barbara will share her expert insight on how to plan, prepare and maximize your trade show presence, from timing and team strategy to regional targeting and ROI expectations. If you've ever wondered how to turn trade shows into a powerful market entry tool, this episode is for you. Let's get started. Hi, Barbara. Thank you so much for joining in into the International Corner Podcast. How are you doing today?
Speaker #0
Great. Thank you for having me.
Speaker #1
It's a pleasure. I'm very excited to talk about trade shows. But before digging into today's matter, can you start by introducing yourself to the audience and why you believe that you are relevant to speak about this theme?
Speaker #0
Thank you. Sure. I'm happy to introduce myself. My name is Barbara Georgian-Lempa. I'm the founder of Interrelations and the program Quest Germany, where I support international companies, B2B companies entering and growing on the German market. I was born in Croatia, but I've been living in Germany for over 22 years now, studied international negotiations, and then built my entire professional life here in Germany around international business. And for over 16 years now, I've worked... with foreign companies from over 30 countries, helping them understand how this market really works, how to position themselves, how to find and build long-term business relationships in Germany. And a huge part of that has been trade shows. So I've supported teams through Medica, Anuga, Hannover, a lot of trade shows, over hundreds of them in the last year or so. I've seen the full spectrum of companies, some getting incredible attractions because they prepare well, have everything set out. And I've seen a lot of companies also wasting a lot of money because the trade shows is just another marketing tool in their program and not really taken seriously. So I've walked the halls of many trade shows with my clients, sat in their meetings. prepared, worked on them on their pitch, introduced them to a lot of potential partners, and even saw some deals really going to waste because the follow-up hasn't been done properly. So everything I will share today comes from real projects, real clients, and lessons learned in the last 16 years.
Speaker #1
Oh my god, everything that you've been mentioning, it rings a bell. I think it probably speaks to a lot of us. And I'm quite excited to dig around the German market as well, because it's quite a hard market to break into, I believe. And before getting into that, so we got that concept called the icebreaker at the beginning of every episode. So just imagine you have a dice, there's six faces, pick a number, and I will read you a question.
Speaker #0
Okay, let's try number four.
Speaker #1
number five Four. Okay. If you could go back in time, what's an advice that you would give to yourself that would help you be better now or be better, you know, like sooner than what you discovered?
Speaker #0
That's a very interesting one. So what would help me be better now? Well, maybe on that turning point, when I moved to Germany at a young age, I was 22, a little bit of... not taking things more personal, too personal. Like I come from Southern Mediterranean country. We tend to interpret a lot of things into the non- uh spoken word like the context the atmosphere and there was many times in germany where i felt like maybe i don't belong here maybe this is not the right way uh with years i learned this but yeah i took some lessons to go there maybe that would be the one okay
Speaker #1
i mean i'm sure that a lot of us are quite familiar with this one as well especially when you move to another country discover another culture there's a lot of self-discovery that happens So thanks a lot for sharing that with us. And now onto today's topic. So we will focus on the German market, but obviously everything we're going to talk about around the trade shows, like this is applicable to probably any type of market, but just because this is based on your experience. So maybe first question, why are trade shows such an effective way or an effective entry point for international companies that want to enter the German market?
Speaker #0
So that's a good question. And the reason is very simple. So Germany is a very structured country mentality. It's trust-based and it's also reference-driven market. So those buyers, they want to see the seriousness. They want to see consistency. They want to see some proof of relevance. And when they meet companies at a trade show, they see exactly this. So there's also a way to... meet a lot of decision makers at one place. So for companies coming from abroad, it saves a lot of money instead of traveling from meeting to meeting to see all the decision makers in one city, at one event. So another thing is, especially for Germans, I'm not sure if it's for all other markets, but for Germany especially, Germans are not that old. open people, let's say. They're not that open to start trusting you in an international context, especially. So they take their time to build trust. And trade shows is actually a place where they all come together to do exactly this, to network, to get to know other people. So their role changes at a trade show. They are here to meet, to talk, to build new conversations. And here's exactly where then the companies can use this to get into those discussions, to get to the decision maker, to open the doors well. And also they build a little bit of credibility because if they're there, they show that Germany is not just something they're trying out from far away. They're here, they're present, they invest their time, so it gives on both sides an advantage to meet and to open. And even, for example, the biggest issue at the trade show is that the companies are a little bit afraid that the people they meet are salespeople and other exhibitors at the booth. But actually, this is also an advantage and a very often unused one. Because they get a chance to talk to the salespeople of a company, a certain company, a certain lead they want to meet. They can use all this information from them because they are here to talk. They're here to present their company. And when you learn about your leads, exactly what they need, how do they sell, where do they sell to, what their issues are, what their challenges are, then you can also make a better pitch afterwards. You can make a better connection. You can offer them exactly the solutions that they need. So there's a lot of... advantages into going to a trade show.
Speaker #1
I would agree with that. Usually there's a lot of conversation that happens. I think one aspect that's quite hard to figure out is maybe when to leverage it. Because sometimes and I'm talking from my perspective or others, because I've had some discussions in the past is that if it's too early, you don't know anyone, you don't have any contacts, like is it really going to be worth going there? Do you have any advice on you when we should during that market entry journey leverage trade shows like when to action it very important yes so timing can really make uh make or break the whole efforts of especially
Speaker #0
in germany so i see all the market entry uh phases uh then dialed down into three of those so first one is the research phase or the qualifying phase of the market so you this is not the part where you sell this is some this is the part where you learn you're um trying to understand the market observe uh the other the competitors um gather some leads um finding what you're positioning and this is A little bit like scouting, you go to a trade show, you as a visitor and a small team, you don't invest as much at the beginning. And then the phase two is entering the market. So this is where you already have some warm leads. This is the phase where you know which companies matter, you know who you want to meet. You get some pre-booked meetings and you can use the trade show for real door opening. And the phase three is the sales growth. this is um latest the biggest step when you're already considering exhibiting maybe where your messaging is clear when you exactly know your goals or the whole foundation is in place so my recommendation definitely don't start exhibit don't go exhibiting too early and i've actually had examples of this i can share um actually one of my first one of my first one-on-one clients was a cosmetic company, Natural Cosmetics. They came to Vivanest, that's a part of Biofacht, organic cosmetic show, and they called me in just short before, a couple of weeks, I think two weeks before, they would come to Nuremberg to do a trade show and I should help them set their ROI or, you know, return on investment and help them have a good show. So they invested in a booth. They spent a lot of money into team, into marketing, into everything that goes around the trade show. It can be really a big investment. But they didn't do the groundwork. So they didn't have prearranged meetings. They didn't have an exact plan. They didn't know who they want to meet. There was a lot of questions out there. Here I jumped in and first thing I did was, for example, research the other exhibitors who were there. So when I knew, okay, there could be some B2B leads for them, I was the one on the ground for them going through the halls and the booths, actually the part where they were in this phase first, that was their job, but they were cut down in all the organizational work on their booth and then had to be there. So we got some nice B2B meetings, but this was just like... yeah a rescue uh mission actually and this is something after this this was already i think 14 years ago after this i always analyze first with my clients are they ready is this the right moment is this the right exhibition yeah there's a lot of a lot of questions to be asked before you come to the trade show because i've seen also differently a year afterwards i had a client who had everything done, prepared. They knew exactly what they're looking for. They had a list of leads. They were even participating in the Congress, which was a part of the trade show, having a speech there. And of course, you can imagine which one of those had better results afterwards.
Speaker #1
But I want to come back because you mentioned there are three phases, right? Like the research phase, the entering the market phase, and the sales growth. So while you're a little bit more... Let's say you have a bit more progress in there. Does that mean that in terms of exhibiting, so really having a booth, like you don't necessarily recommend before what, like at least phase two, right?
Speaker #0
Yes, yes, definitely. So there's a lot of advantages you can take out of only visiting the booth or the trade show. So it doesn't mean that you already have to invest so much money into the booth and everything. If you do it properly, if you prepare, yourself, let's say, three to five meetings pre-arranged in advance at the trade show. So your return on investment here is a much higher one than if you're preparing to exhibit. Because when you're preparing to exhibit, you have so many costs around it and so many of them are not, you cannot calculate them if they're going to be returned or not. There's phases where I would say at the beginning, definitely worth a visit. first and afterwards exhibit when you exactly know when you who are you reaching also um visiting has so many advantages you're not tied to that booth you have the options to go from one meeting to another you are flexible in the city as well you can maybe go a little bit early have a early dinner with a prospect or a client or lead there is so many um things that can turn uh as a benefit for you if you're just visiting in the first phase.
Speaker #1
You mentioned preparation, and I think you said multiple times, and especially on our interview before this conversation, that it's important to plan ahead of time. You even mentioned six months, which I think in all regards can be difficult for some people to plan six months ahead of time. But just wanted to get your perspective on what that timeline looking like from very early on, maybe research to actually booking meetings with prospects.
Speaker #0
Yes, sure. Of course. So six months is ideal. Some companies do know already next year if they're going to come to an event or not. But for some, if they decide like last minute to jump in on the train and be a fast exhibitor, this is usually not so successful. So planning, I say ideally six months, of course, it's not for everybody like that. But let me walk you through my line of thought for the six months preparations, how they look like. So First of all, in that six months in advance, you choose the right fair. Also, an important question. I always say, choose the fair, the event where your clients are and not your competitors. A lot of companies make that mistake. Again, they see their biggest competitors, they're at a certain exhibition, and they go there. There is a lot of other ways to really find out where are your ideal customers or ideal partners. and go to that show. Sometimes it's a different one and sometimes you're the only one out of your category. I've seen this, I can give you an example, I've seen this at the Medica show, a translation office having its own booth because they're specializing in translation for medical services. Or my client where I went for them to the trade show, their CNC metal service providers. So they didn't go to the metal show. They went to the industry show for packaging systems because that's where the industry is, who is building something, who needs their metal frames and metal services, which they can do for that. And we had a lot of success on that show in this case. So always look which show fits you best. And of course, you need to research your competitors, research your exhibitors who are there. A lot of unused potential lies in the other exhibitors where you can find some B2B development topics to talk to them. Then you need to understand the market expectations, which of your USPs, what really makes a difference in the targeted market here in Germany. Or maybe also prepare all the marketing around the show. How will you use it? And of course, the logical details like booking your hotels, not to be underestimated. The prices of the hotels in Germany rise three times during the show. So booking that in advance is also an interesting thing. So this was a six months. This is like really the starters. Like four months in before the show is maybe the most important, the critical phase, I would say. This is where you build those leads. So you have 30 to 50 companies. you or potential partners you really know why you want to meet them where they are then you're preparing the pitch especially for them targeting especially this market segment if you have a lot of offering you need to narrow it down and find your niche and stand to it you warm up your network and you start scheduling those meetings yes germany is a very um organ is organized in the the meeting of time. So you need to take consideration, need at least one. month in advance to get those meetings. And this is if you're being very fast and already have the conversation. So it takes time to get those meetings. And my goal, my ideal scenario is that you have those meetings online already before. So in these four months before the trade show. So this means you start already those discussions. You already get them warmed up. You already start maybe exploring some potential corporations. You make a company presentation In this case, when you meet on the spot at a trade show, you will already be sealing the deal maybe, or just adding this personal conversation to it. So this is why I think there's four months before that's the really important phase. And of course...
Speaker #1
Maybe a quick question on what you mentioned, because... The way I would say that some trade shows work is that sometimes ahead of time, you do have like a list of attendees or you have a platform where you have like everyone and then, you know, right, so like you can you can scrap the list and then do your work. But here we are really talking about trade shows in which like you actually have no idea who's going to be there. You're never going to have any idea. So When you reach out to them ahead of time, do you use the fact of your presence at this trade show as an entry point to try and start your conversations? Or do you just do normal outreach and then at some point you're like, hey, are you going to be in there in two months time? Because we can also meet in real life there.
Speaker #0
Exactly. In four months time. I say start sooner the better and use this. This is your leverage. So it means if a company is coming to Germany. In six months, they can already start using this. So this is a show of credibility. They are here, they're present, and this will be the place to meet them once they review the materials, once they meet online, and it gives them a sense of ease. It's not just company from abroad, which I will never meet, or it's not just one of those thousands of emails that the German buyers do get daily in their inbox. So it does defer you and it should definitely be a goal to set up a meeting at the trade show and of course ideally set up a meeting even in advance, after online or video. And then afterwards in the second phase, two to three months before, yeah, you moved into execution. So booking those meetings, preparing all the materials. clarifying the team roles where there's so many team members with you who does the talking, who does the selling, who is writing the follow-up, how does everything work, setting exact goals to each of the company. This means in those two to three months before you really have goals and targets that you can then afterwards orient yourself, was there a return on investment? Because if you set those goals, let's say five, new partners from Germany, maybe some international as well, some company trade shows are international. It gives you this measurement which you need or guidance which you need to follow through and to understand was it worth the investment. And of course, two to three weeks before. Just the end, the last month is there are so many organizational things. to do and use and your marketing team will be doing their thing and planning your whole days around it and also don't forget the field research once you're already in Germany don't fly in for the trade show and fly back like I always do for my clients but it's also a place where you use to go on ground so reserve a day or two on the ground to see those I don't know depending on the industry your points of sale or your partners or even your competitors, maybe some industry meeting takes place or maybe some tour of a company or your industry which you can book. So talk to the salespeople at your sales points. I don't know if it's medicine. Go to pharmacies. Go to some hospitals. Use that time on the ground since you're already traveling to do that. So this is two to three. four weeks, like a month before, it's the organizational part and there's no time anymore to really do this groundwork. And that's why I say start early.
Speaker #1
Yeah, I understand. And one question I had for you is that what's your typical number of people that you recommend to go to an event? Let's say if you do have a booth or if you don't have a booth, right?
Speaker #0
That's an interesting question. Well, depending, of course, on the company and on the possibilities you have. I would say for a visit, a minimum of two would be good. That's the minimum. But, you know, I've seen small teams win a lot. I've seen big teams not winning a lot. So I think that the whole preparation part is the more important one where you have your goals and then you have... people who pull them through. And sometimes the smaller goals are also good if they reach 200%. So depending a little bit on the targets. But I would say two is the minimum for a booth size. It means three or four would be like for a small booth minimum. The more the better, but also not so big because the roles inside the team, especially for small and medium-sized companies sometimes. It's like a little bit, everybody does everything. And so a little bit dividing the roles does help organizational approach and nothing gets forgotten or neglected on the way.
Speaker #1
Again, you emphasized how important it is to plan ahead of time, six months. But what if, what if, I don't know, it's two months before the trade show and I just noticed that... There's this ritual happening, should I still go or is it a waste of time?
Speaker #0
It's also possible. There's something I call minimal viable preparation, which you need. Let's say you make a really targeted research of companies that you want to see, not 300, like 10 to 15. These are your research companies and you know what you want to talk about to each and every one of them. You must prepare your 10-minute pitch, which needs to really sit and be great. You have your simple CRM sheets, notes to take during the show. You prioritize maybe learning. If this is a visit and you're just like into the scouting, then you have this also as a return on investment because those market insights you get on the grounds are different than the ones you get online. Even though you can get a lot of information online, it's much different if you come into conversation with people in your market segment. So you get some real data out there preparing your questions, which you want to find out the answers to. And of course, prearranged meetings. So I would say like a minimum goal should be to have at least three meetings to fly over and go there. because Also, three good meetings can make a big return on investment for some companies, depending on the goals. But under three meetings, I don't think just to go and scout and look around, it's not going to be any return on investment. It can be maybe seen as luxury a little bit.
Speaker #1
But the thing is that usually if I do make the decision two months ahead to say go, Then chances are that you want to book your tickets ahead of time. So let's say you actually don't manage to get those meetings then too late, right?
Speaker #0
Yes. Well, depending on what your goals are, your goals must be set. So if you have a goal to just, you know, like I've seen this in the fashion industry to go and get inspired because you're a creative brand, then yes. Or you send your marketing team to see what the competitors are doing. and have those type of inside information, then yes. But for business development purposes, I would say don't go if you don't have prepared meetings of companies you want to meet. Because also, even if you say, but I know my 10, 20 companies, I've seen this also, companies come to me, but I know who I want to see. You still don't know if they're going to be on the booth, the right decision makers, if they're going to want to talk to you. And if they're going to be open to talk about collaboration, like I mentioned before, sometimes the buyers are just not there. It's salespeople only. And sometimes they're not so happy to, you know, make some inside information public or connect to even. And at the end, just gathering those business cards, as some companies see as their goal. Well, this is not really a lot. Business cards and email addresses are.
Speaker #1
also possible to be found online and for that you can save a lot of money i see what you mean now if we focus a little bit about the details as a choice right as you mentioned like sometimes there's also like opportunities to to speak right so like speaking slots like is that something that actually you believe really bring values or it's not necessary definitely that brings a lot of value.
Speaker #0
So this sets you up to be the market expert in your niche, in your focus, wherever your company is working in. So I would definitely advise this. It gives you also an opportunity to share this news. through and use it in your own marketing, in your own pitch. It shows you credibility. You have already spoken on an industry event in Germany. So this means you're already with both feet in Germany, even if you're maybe not really yet there. It shows your readiness. It shows you to be the expert. It shows your company to have good solutions. Otherwise, they wouldn't be speaking at the event. So there's a lot of advantages. and I've seen companies just now at Medica, I've seen a wonderful company, not yet in Germany, but speaking at three events this year and getting traction very fast and very well from exactly the targeted companies. So it can be used in a great way.
Speaker #1
So like, you know, when you're at a trade show, so exhibiting and usually there's like a mix, right? Like of conferences happening at the same time and then you have times where like they just go around the aisles to meet people is it worse for the sales people that are on the booth to go on those sessions that are in between times you know where people are around the booth or do you think that it's just like a loss of time because anyways everyone is sad and listened to listens to something so it's quite useless
Speaker #0
to actually be in there well it's important to set your own goals so So if you have your own agenda, if you already have. 20 leads, let's say. You did the groundwork we were talking about the first half an hour, then you have already enough to do. But I've seen some those type of sessions who were well organized with a lot of matchmaking character, but these are not all. So a little bit of thinking just to expect the trade show who has let's say a couple of thousand exhibitors to organize exactly something that you're looking for is a bit of a high hope. I always say make your own plans and set your own goals. And if this tour of, let's say, I don't know, some area of the exhibition brings you exactly to the companies you want to meet, then yes, use that. But other than that, I would say better to plan your own ways or how to proceed at the trade show.
Speaker #1
Okay, clear. And you mentioned a little bit of regionalization. I think that Germany is one of the markets that's the most decentralized in Europe. If you compare it to France, France, most of the business happens around Paris. I mean, you know, I mean, you still have to say it's still the case right now. So how do you like, like, what's your advice? Like, should we really plan on going to even based on regions we want to target in Germany? Or what's your take in there?
Speaker #0
Yes, well, there are different events. So there are regional events, there are big international events. For the international event, actually, the place where it takes place doesn't play the role. Regional, yes. But of course, a lot of companies forget when they think about Germany. They see only a market of 82 million people. A great shoot, but everybody... forgets that it's 16 countries actually. Each of them even have sometimes different rules, different laws to some areas. If we stay in the medical segment, different reimbursement for the products system. There's a lot of ways to use the regionality for your benefit. For example, if you target especially one region partner up with regional partners you go for industry clusters in the region like but you can also go very wrong i have some examples for you for example i had a client in the gourmet high high cost high price segment in food with some exclusive products they were targeting berlin And when we switch this to Munich, where more of the, let's say, also international hotel guests and some, it's called Feinkost in Germany, it's a little bit more expensive food segment, chain shops for this type of food, there we found much better partners. So there is differences. To give you some, let's say, industry clusters type of overview, we have in Bavaria, like in Munich, Nuremberg, Augsburg, we have industrial automation, we have advanced manufacturing, construction, medtech, and in this area also some trade shows. It's good for, like let's say premium B2C, high value B2B segment. We have North Rhine Westphalia, direction France and the Netherlands. Düsseldorf, Cologne. So there you have healthcare, packaging, retail, chemical industries. Düsseldorf is a fashion hub as well. And Cologne, maybe for food. St. Anuga, trade show, a big one. And then you have some different ones. Berlin is a startup region with a lot of newly modern startups. So there's a lot of differences. Choosing a fair is not just about the fair. It's also about where do you want to end up? Because it's also for those big shows, which we mentioned, the regional. German partners who maybe don't go to a big international show will go if it's in their city. Then it's much easier for them. It's just a short jump to the fair, let's say.
Speaker #1
There is an aspect of localization in your prospecting before you get in there. You can still target ideal customer profiles. If you're planning to go to a Berlin show, you can still target people.
Speaker #0
living around berlin definitely definitely and again using that time around the show there too before to set up those meetings in the in the offices of the your prospects or you know visiting the the point of sales uh
Speaker #1
all very important points definitely yes that's exactly what we did three weeks ago we attended a show from a partner in in london and we did start So we only had a month to be fair, but we did manage to book like three meetings, you know, like the day before going to the show. So I think not bad.
Speaker #0
Very good.
Speaker #1
One important aspect maybe that I wanted to mention here, because that's what CEOs, etc., they're looking after, right? ROI, return on investment. I think it's always tricky when we talk about trade shows because there's always this notion of... What kind of ROI should you, can you actually expect? Because usually what you hear is that, okay, so we've done a trade show six months ago. How many deals have you closed? But what I find is that especially if you are on the higher end kind of targets with sales cycles going minimum from nine to, I don't know, a year, year and a half, your return on investment is going to be very hard to calculate. And you're going to, you're going to frustrate. Your CEO or whoever is your boss, you know, who's like waiting for, okay, what's going on now?
Speaker #0
Exactly. Especially, yeah, welcome to Germany, I would say to that. This is a typical main challenge of going into Germany. So this is a very slow market. Everything takes time. So even getting that meeting takes time. I'm glad you didn't have to set up three meetings a couple of weeks in advance in Germany, because that would be very difficult. Everything takes time. So, it's very important to set those goals. So, those goals must be very clear. Let's say you set three, or let's say you're coming to the German trade show and you have a goal of three to five, or let's say five German partners. You can follow up, but you must be realistic. You can follow up your, you know, calculating your return on investment, but you must be realistic around the time. So you had a set of three to five and in six months and after the show. So now we're moving to that after the trade show where the real work actually begins. And if you still have contact with those, and if you still have meetings, and if you're in the negotiation phase or contract signing phase or evaluation phase, depending on which stage you're in, this means you're still on track. So this means your return on investment is still there. The sales cycle, the real partnership begins, of course, with the first order or with the first signed contract and order. So... It does take time to be realistic there, but if there is no stop in the conversation or a stop or a clear no, which is also fine, then you know where you're at. But if it's after the show and six months in, you're still in discussions with those companies, then you're in the good way. And then there's just a timing issue that needs to be maybe prolonged to get to those error eyes.
Speaker #1
Yeah, for sure. And happy you actually went over it because what I am taking here is that we can also like as long as, for instance, you still have open opportunities, let's call them this way. It's still something as an ROI to take from, as you mentioned, because if you're like in long sales cycle, like obviously you couldn't expect to have something closed within the next six months. Of course, if you have shorter ones, like just a few weeks, yes. but maybe depending on where we are sitting in terms of sales cycle, type of product, the solution we are selling, like we should try and get realistic KPIs to be able to measure against our achievements.
Speaker #0
Yes, definitely. And not to forget also marketing goals, which are not so easy to track and to, especially depending, of course, on the market segment we're talking about. But if it's a consumer product, if it's not... solely B2B product, then you have, of course, brand awareness, which you're building, but also in the B2B segment. So there's a brand awareness in B2B segment. And if we use what we discussed just a moment ago, those sessions, those speaking slots, which you had at the Congress or something, or the trade show Congress, you can use those for a long time afterwards. So there's a lot of ROI here involved into a marketing investment. So you can use those, yeah, those presence at a trade show as a leverage later to show credibility, to show your brand name. It's really investment into this B2B marketing, which is also a very important one.
Speaker #1
I didn't want to show ROI because... Usually in conversation, you only have closing numbers that matter the most.
Speaker #0
Well, of course, closing numbers must be the goal at the end. There's no point in discussing years if there is no goal in mind. So it must be there, definitely. But of course, it just needs to be taken realistically when it will be achieved.
Speaker #1
Yeah, absolutely. I think setting expectations is very important. But thanks a lot, Barbara, for your insights around the topic. And before closing this episode, let's move to that last part of every episode, which is the Oops, My Bad time. Whoops,
Speaker #0
my bad.
Speaker #1
So for those who tune in the first time, it's a few minutes at the end of each session for the guest to share a setback or something that went wrong during an expansion mission. So Barbara, do you maybe have stories from your clients to tell us so that we can learn from?
Speaker #0
Well, yes, there are stories in both directions. Usually the one pain point, let's say, or the one point where maybe the consulting part is not as easy as in others where there's clear steps is in setting the right USPs or pushing the right, finding the right positioning in Germany. So I've seen clients with... wonderful products. So they had tested the clinical results. They have a lot of end users stories, but for the B2B segment, they were looking for a partner in Germany. This was not enough. There was a lot of companies out there. So really working on how to differentiate yourself in case, for example, you are Um, a company who has competitors from Germany. This means you're an outsider coming to the market and you have local competitors. This is where your biggest challenge lies. Here, it's very, very needed to guide yourself to get some point of difference from those others. This is maybe the most difficult part because it takes a lot of energy also from the company, from the CEO down to marketing the whole team that needs to work around this, who needs to understand the local market and find the right way to really explain what they're working and focus on those things that come very well in Germany with the consumers and with the partners as well. Maybe another one is service providers. Actually, I love working with service providers, but it does make a lot of a challenge for them. Let's say it can be engineering, it can be IT, it can be some I mentioned before CNC like metal work service provider. All of those type of companies which target industries in Germany, they go to industry trade shows to present their services, they can do a lot. And that's great, but it's also a big problem for them in terms, again, of marketing, in terms of showing up as an expert, because you cannot come... to a German company and say, you're an expert for everything. So nobody's going to believe this. Germans are very precise. So saying we can do a lot of different things without really proof for each in this one sentence, which is maybe not possible to do by using normal words. Everything you need to really focus on the niche. And this needs also deep research in advance of the lead, what can you offer him, where he would profit from your service, and then only talk about this. Because the problem is from the companies, they want to show their skills, their knowledge, their experience in so many different areas that the other side gets a bit bored through that, maybe let's say like that, or even loses the credibility because they think, yeah, yeah, right nobody can do all of that or
Speaker #1
It's typical, but it's also very European. When you go to the US, they know how to talk about just what's of interest to you. And I think that's something we would win better if we would actually focus on that one or two things that the prospect wants.
Speaker #0
Definitely. I always say, find examples. of successful clients or projects you did for a company who is very similar to them. You don't have to name them, you don't have to say who they are, but you can give an example. So you can say with companies like yours in maybe another country, maybe in another market segment, but you find something that is comparable to this company you're talking to with your successful project. that you then explain how well you work together, why did you work so well together, and what were the steps that you took. So this means painting a clear picture in the head of the German buyer of a stress-free relationship for the future. So it's possible you've done it before and only focus on that and not going into this wide portfolio of services or products you might have.
Speaker #1
Well, Barbara, Thanks a lot for everything that you shared today about like how to leverage trade shows, especially in Germany, to be able to break into that difficult market. Just have to tell you until next time then.
Speaker #0
I wonder about to be here. Thank you very much.
Speaker #1
Thank you. Have a good one. Bye bye.
Speaker #0
Bye.
Speaker #1
Thank you so much for listening until the end. If you liked this episode, don't forget to subscribe to not miss the next one. And please share it with... two people in your network. This is how this podcast gets more visibility and can help more of us to work on international markets. See you soon.

About International Corner

International Corner is the podcast that helps you open and thrive in foreign markets!

I'm welcoming international experts to share their secret recipes and their setbacks to help you successfully sell in foreign markets.

A bit about me :

After opening the US market for a French scaleup 5 years ago, I realized how hard it is to sell in foreign markets and how scarce the free available content is.

Would love to hear your feedback, connect with me on Linkedin Tiphaine Le Roux

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

About International Corner

International Corner is the podcast that helps you open and thrive in foreign markets!

I'm welcoming international experts to share their secret recipes and their setbacks to help you successfully sell in foreign markets.

A bit about me :

After opening the US market for a French scaleup 5 years ago, I realized how hard it is to sell in foreign markets and how scarce the free available content is.

Would love to hear your feedback, connect with me on Linkedin Tiphaine Le Roux

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

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