- Speaker #0
There's no reality today where I'm going to get to the place where I love my body, where I look in the mirror and I'm like, oh, she's so like, oh, that curve, that like, that softness, that like, there's no way I'm getting there today. Body neutrality is a great place to then strive for.
- Speaker #1
Welcome to the very first episode of It's Both, and I am your host, Nikki P. I am so excited to have you here today. We are talking about body image and the complexity and the tension that comes with feeling. Like, sometimes we both love it, we feel confident in it, we feel comfortable in it, and also we might be unhappy with it, insecure, or want it different. And maybe we're feeling all those things at the same time. And prior to this episode, I did a post on Instagram and I asked my followers, how do you feel about your body image? One option was I love it, feel confident and comfortable. One was I'm unhappy with it. I'm insecure. I want it different. And then one option said both. And out of almost, I think it was 45 or 50 people responded, 79% of those responses said both. 3% said I love it. I feel confident and comfortable in it. And 15% said, I'm unhappy with it, insecure, or want a different. Now, I don't have a huge following, but even from that sample size, we can see that the majority of people have this tension with how they view their body. It isn't just either or. It is complex, and sometimes it changes from day to day. So today, I have one of my best friends of all time, Heather Lefevre, joining us. She is going to be sharing her journey of self-discovery and her complexities around body image, the challenges of defining herself. beyond societal labels and the impact of external influences on self-esteem. She also talks about the importance of representation in media. We talk about exploring body neutrality as a means to foster that self-acceptance and even trust in one's body. So join us today as we talk about these complexities and even about our personal experiences with body neutrality, the challenges of swimwear, and even the impact of childhood experiences on body competence. Well hi.
- Speaker #0
Hi.
- Speaker #1
Thank you for being here.
- Speaker #0
Thank you so much.
- Speaker #1
Okay so this is the first episode and we have Heather Lefevre with us. I'm so excited. One of my best friends of all time. So tell us a little bit about you. Who is Heather Lefevre?
- Speaker #0
Well thrilling to be here for episode one. I am other than your friend which I think is just enough.
- Speaker #1
Thank you.
- Speaker #0
Yeah everything you're here superfluous. Yeah. I am a mom. I've got three kids, three boys. I am a therapist. I'm actually a licensed marriage and family therapist.
- Speaker #1
Best therapist. So if you need one, Heather.
- Speaker #0
Thank you. Thank you. It is so fun. I love my job. Absolutely passionate about it. And I am a wife. My husband is, we've been married for a little over 11 years.
- Speaker #1
Are you serious?
- Speaker #0
Yeah. Yeah. Firstborn is turning 10 in a couple of days. Yes.
- Speaker #1
Every time you remind me of that, I'm a little shook.
- Speaker #0
Yeah. Therapist, wife, mom, all the good stuff.
- Speaker #1
So what about outside of those things, right? Like outside of your titles, mom, therapist, what you do for work.
- Speaker #0
Nicole's friend. Yeah.
- Speaker #1
Nicole's friend. Of course. How could I forget? Yeah. Like what? else is about heather like who is heather what are things that you like what are things that make you you um the harder things to like dig into what are some of those yeah that's a great question because she's evolving and
- Speaker #0
has evolved a lot um i am i think by nature i'm a pretty go with the flow um outdoorsy person for lack of a better word. I love being in nature. I love spending time with people. I really love a good adventure. I love travel. I, parenting, I'm with two of my kids, I'm in like the sweet spot of parenting where I get to, with my eight-year-old and almost 10-year-old, I get to really share with them things I love. and bring them in on that. I mean, last night we were watching Karate Kid, and that felt like a big win. That's a big moment. I know, because we're not watching.
- Speaker #1
Like the original Karate Kid. Yes,
- Speaker #0
we were actually watching Karate Kid 2, because the night before we had watched Karate Kid 1, and they were hooked, as they should be. Of course. But then I also have a three-year-old. So that is still very, my life is accommodating his needs and his likes. And there's not as much transfer of what I like into that situation. But I think as a mom, it's really hard to know pieces of identity. And so, yeah, I think at this point, like I am, it's almost like learning who I am again. But in the space of also being a mom and also being an employee and the finding things to do that are just me are fewer and far between. So it is it's not a typical way I define myself anymore. Yeah,
- Speaker #1
it's hard.
- Speaker #0
Yeah.
- Speaker #1
I feel like that's a really hard question. And when I was writing this, I was like, I have no idea how the hell I would answer that because that is like it's so hard. And I think, you know, to your point, like. I think we get so easily defined by all these other pieces, which are so important and so wonderful, but also you do lose, you lose a little bit of who you are without all those things. And if those things weren't around, like, you know, what would you be doing? What, what would you be like? Or who are you? So,
- Speaker #0
oh yeah. Oh yeah. And I think it's, I mean, there is so much of a fun opportunity to like, now that my kids are a little bit older now that I am, um, and I'm you know really supported by a husband who wants me to have my own identity and I want to have my own identity it's like oh yeah I what do I just want to do today what do I um and I love the conversation about you know kind of the conversation we're gonna have today about body image is like I what does my body want to do what am I craving like what's the type of movement I'm craving what's the type of oh yeah um food I'm craving to eat because that's not Me being the center of those decisions in the home is not really where we where we live day in, day out.
- Speaker #1
I can't imagine why.
- Speaker #0
I know.
- Speaker #1
Or other humans in the house that, you know. Yes.
- Speaker #0
Yes.
- Speaker #1
Yeah. And I think that's a great that's a great point that I often forget. Like it's speaking of body image and even body period, like how easy it is. I think I want to say just women because I think it doesn't matter your gender, but for us to abandon our bodies. or our identities and ourselves, especially when you move into that phase of parenthood. But speaking about body image, so like that's kind of talking about that today and that tension and the both between like, I don't like my body, but I also love my body because of all these wonderful things that it's done for me that it does for me. But yet I also see all these things that I don't like, or I wish were different, or I wish were improved on. So like, talk to me a little bit about that and how that shows up for you and what does that look like for Heather?
- Speaker #0
Yeah, I wonder. I mean, even as you say that, I go, yes, some of that I relate to of like bodies just being they hold that liminal space of like, are am I at war with her or am I her biggest fan right now? Right. And and the trajectory of that. But I I mean, I think the setup to go back to like the setup of me and the body I've been in. We're going to go way back. Let's do it.
- Speaker #1
Make us match the beginning.
- Speaker #0
We're going to go back a few decades. I grew up in a household of women and my all sisters, my dad military. So it was really for a lot of, there'd be long periods of time where it was just the women kind of ruling the roost. And I was the youngest too. So I was kind of looking up. And I think how I defined my body was really. largely what was modeled, like how I was seeing my sisters engage with their bodies and my mom. And so body image, I go, I was a tomboy in a family of women who were not. My mom was very athletic and strong, and I was as well. But my mom was also very elegant and like a very classic thin body um and I was not so I started my I I told you this before and it's always like still shocking to me in some ways but I mean I like jumped into puberty around eight years old I'm still shocked by this I know it was very young yeah it was not eight years old it was not okay yes I was in elementary school and just going oh no like I mean I think I was surprised there was never a month I was not surprised when my period came I was like I'm not prepared I didn't know this this is happening again I thought we just did this um but I um the reality of like I was uh I was hanging out on the playground playing four square like you know just just like I was gonna do with all the other third and fourth graders um but I was rocking like c-cup breasts that were like bigger than most of my teachers and just going how do I so my body from like when I became aware that I like had a body when there was this like um
- Speaker #1
So when was that? Like really quick to interrupt you that at that age?
- Speaker #0
Fourth grade. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that was like very, very quickly. Like my body didn't feel like it was, it was just different. It was odd. It was clunky. It was a little unmatched with the environment. I would read a lot older because of that also was. very, very tall, like one of those first girls to hit her growth spurt, clearly. It made me awesome in sports.
- Speaker #1
Yeah. Oh, basketball? Oh, basketball,
- Speaker #0
softball. I mean, I was so powerful so young. So I definitely, the both place, like the and place for me was my body is strong and in these certain spheres of athletics, it made me so dominant. And I also was gifted with like hand-eye coordination, which isn't really part of health. Right.
- Speaker #1
So did you feel, I guess, like as you're describing this in that moment at that age, what was the dominant feeling about your body? Like, did you feel strong and powerful and coordinated and like the superpower with those things?
- Speaker #0
Yes and no. Right. It was like, yes, when it came to athletics, playing outside, climbing trees. I mean, there was nothing I couldn't do. In a very real like, oh, I want to like hike the creek a mile each direction. And like, I knew my body could take whatever. It was just very capable. And I felt a real sense of like power in that and competence and all of that, those good things I wanted to feel. But then in social circles, that's where it would fall apart. Because it would be, there was just the endless comparing of. my body against and largely like prepubescent.
- Speaker #1
Sure. I mean, yeah. Eight years old, nine years old.
- Speaker #0
And so it just became then that was the theme of I'm looking at my body through the lens of comparison of, wow, it is so much bigger. My my I mean, it was that situation of going, I can't ride a bus without going, oh, my gosh, look at my thighs compared to her thighs and look at like how tall I am versus how. petite and it became this like negative and me having kind of a negative implication on my body versus and so yeah the social piece was really really hard because that didn't I didn't get the same reward socially as I did athletically.
- Speaker #1
And is that something for you did it first come internally like was that something that you noticed and started speaking to yourself about yourself. Or do you feel like that was more of an external influence, you know, from others, whether it be reactions or comments or a little bit of both? Like, how did that how did you first start noticing that other piece, the social piece?
- Speaker #0
Oh, it was, I mean, so much external. I mean, I don't think I first had a voice in inside of me that said, oh, my body is bad. It's too big. I mean, that just like that comparison thought I go, no, I think that that was very much. planted in me and, and, um, as a kind of a systemic minded professional and, and that really matches kind of how I think about things. I go, I don't think I, um, I don't have like one villain in my story that I go, you, you spoke that into me. And some people really do have that of where that voice comes from. And I wasn't, um, I wasn't mistreated in that way, but I do think by way of... the magazines I was looking at, the, you know, the catalogs that were coming to me and every other girl in the, you know, 90s.
- Speaker #1
Victoria's Secret.
- Speaker #0
Yeah, Victoria's Secret.
- Speaker #1
I remember. I guess that might not have been an eight, but you, yeah, I mean. Yes,
- Speaker #0
yes, yes. All those little, yes. Oh, and as I aged up it for sure, the voices just got louder of like, oh no, this is what, I mean, going into stores as a young adult, as a teenager and going, they don't carry my size at like. marisa's like yeah yeah like in the midwest where we have like one clothing store in the in the tiny little town Yeah, I don't because it hurt my feelings.
- Speaker #1
Yeah, yeah. No, I mean, that's a big, that's important, though. And I think that's, I mean, even hearing you talk about it, I'm like, you're right. There is so much. None of us, I don't think, typically start internally from a childhood with whether it be body image or anything about ourselves as a bad thing until somebody tells you, you know, directly or subliminally that this is not, quote, normal or okay or.
- Speaker #0
Or that it's something to like the messaging I got a lot was this is something we need to get under control. Like, oh, yeah, you're gaining weight. Your body is getting bigger. That is like a five alarm fire. And I really the majority of that I got was from other women. And I really. Oh, for sure. But I also was in a really female rich environment just by way of kind of how my family set up. But I don't I don't. think it's accurate or or fair to go gosh aren't weren't they all horrible people for that I go they were genuinely trying to pass on a truth that they know to be which is if you're in a smaller body you will be less targeted you will be more likely to find love you'll be more accepted like and the reality of them then putting that into my into my psyche was in the most real way, like them imparting some love that's going to help me in my life. But the reality is, is they're sitting there teaching out of that same wound, right? And no one, and we've had massive culture shift since then that I am eternally grateful that I can sit in a large body and go, my body is not the problem. The world is the problem. Like the way we think about the worth of a woman tied so much to what like the vessel looks like is just to me. But yeah, I go, yeah, there was no doubt where there were those messages of this is a problem. We have to just get under control. And the, but the, the more I tried to control my body, the more I was, I was actually making all of that. I'm making, I was self-fulfilling prophecy of like, oh yeah, no, my body is, um, is gaining or might. appetite or my whatever is gaining more strength at that trying to constrain it.
- Speaker #1
Well, even hearing you talk, I'm like, yeah, it's people worrying about the vessel, the look of the vessel, not the health of the vessel. But like, it's again, it's so external of like, it's not how does your body feel? Like, are you healthy? Are you okay? Does it what does it provide you? It's we see something from the outside. And it looks different than what we've been told or, you know, expected to believe. So we got to fix it. Like, I think that message, too, of you have to fix it. Yeah. Which, like, is so it's so hurtful, I feel like, to the soul and especially when you're in this phase of, like, growing and trying to become who you are as a child into, like, then teenage years. I mean.
- Speaker #0
Oh, yeah. I mean. and as a parent too, right? So much healing comes from getting to parent and maybe reparent in ways that the reality was, was my parents' intuitive eating was not words. We had, they did not have that. And so it really was portion control is the words they had, right? Like eat less. And I remember there being like lots of lessons, lots of ways that. my parents would try to help me just come into a smaller like body eventually and so versus it being and the messaging around that really was you really can't trust your appetite you really can't trust what you want to do what you want to eat um you really can't trust that so you just have to you have to constrain it um versus yeah now some of what we're learning around intuitive eating is like hey if you put a cake in front of a child, they will actually eat moderately if they don't have all these messages. Like they will listen to their body and go, oh, too much sugar.
- Speaker #1
Done. Yeah.
- Speaker #0
Whereas if we don't give them the cake and we say you can't trust yourself, that's when we know that they're going to overindulge. Yeah. Because they're not listening. They don't they fundamentally aren't trusting themselves anymore. And I go, yeah, our parents did not have that. I'm excited to like. have some of those categories and be passing some of that new categories on and trying. to reteach my entire system, which is like in fits and starts with that type of thing of going, oh, no, I don't. I don't. I still don't trust it fully. I still don't trust my body to tell me what it needs or to stop when it doesn't need anymore.
- Speaker #1
Well, and I'm having this like aha moment because I mean, this is one facet, I think. And again, I'm speaking as a from a female perspective, but any. it doesn't matter what gender you are, but I think especially historically for women, I talk about this with you and a lot of my friends, like I am struggling now as a woman in my thirties to even hear myself about anything, trust myself about anything. And as you're talking about trusting yourself, even with something like food and like what our body is wanting, I mean, I'm just, again, having that moment of like, oh crap, like that's another way that, you know. And that leads to so many things. Another way that we've been taught, like, don't trust your body. You have to tell your body what it needs to do. And again, it's this external focus rather than internally, like, sitting down, tuning in, like, am I hungry? Okay, what am I hungry for? Okay, I'm feeling like this is my example. I'm feeling really anxious. I want to eat a whole cake. Like, I want to eat all the cupcakes in the world right now. Like, yeah, I'm really sad. I want to eat these things. But I don't, when I acknowledge that, I usually don't do it. I'm like, oh, I'm feeling this way. I'm going to have a little treat. Like, that's me being intuitive. But when I'm not paying attention or trusting my body, I don't pay attention to if I'm hungry. I'm just feeling overwhelmed by X emotion. And then I just go and shove things in my mouth. And then 30 minutes later, you have that feeling of like guilt and like, oh my God, what did I do? But it's this aha moment of like, it's trust. It's like getting back in touch with your body and, you know, hearing your example of being taught from such a young age, especially with body. Don't trust it. Like it cannot be trusted.
- Speaker #0
No.
- Speaker #1
Which is so sad.
- Speaker #0
Oh, yeah. Like that our body is like a goldfish. Like if we just give it a bigger tank, it will get bigger and bigger and bigger. Like if you dare to give it permission, it will just like everybody somehow literally has like a. addictive personality around food or sloth like going but I don't I don't think that's true I think we do at least I do I experience satiation I experience fullness I experience like the desire to rest and the desire to move and the I look at my body sometimes and I go she is amazing and then I look at her sometimes and I'm like Like, oh, no, we got to get this under control. Right. Like it's this ebb and flow of like it's I just yeah, I don't think our bodies can't be trusted. Fundamentally, I don't I think my body can be trusted. And yet there are days where I don't trust her very well at all. And that's like the continued work. Yeah. And, you know, and yeah, you probably have a guess that's like that has figured that out. day in day out but it's still very much a like this process of going oh no I gotta I have to relearn that again and what trust looks like right now so
- Speaker #1
I know we talked about how it started like we went back to the beginning what about as you moved into oh my god which for me absolute worst years ever middle school yeah like middle school into high school like what how did this How did this evolve over the years? Like, talk to me about that was your kind of entrance to this experience, right? Exposure to it. How did that grow through the years, change through the years? And then, you know, into adulthood, this is a really big question. But then into adulthood, when did you really have that moment of like, this isn't right. I got to like work on how I view my body and connect with my body. So talk to me about that kind of growth and transition through the years.
- Speaker #0
Oh, yeah. I mean, it is. It's. it is like different eras for sure. Like in the way that I'm thinking about, I'm like, oh my gosh, my like, uh, those like such pure focused years of middle school, high school, college. Now I, I, my interests changed. So I, I think like we all do, right. We find those places of belonging that match that, that, that we feel safe and we feel confident. So like my interest as I got older, as everybody else started to catch up in height and athletic ability and all of those things, I started to shift. and stop kind of the athletics and then I would go jump into I jumped into the arts I jumped into a really like hodgepodge group of like misfit toys that I felt very comfortable being me and and going oh we are we're all the people who didn't want to do the sports and didn't want to do like we wanted to play instruments and do speech and debate and you know and just watched a lot of movies and laughed really, really hard. Like that was the group of people.
- Speaker #1
Sounds like my group.
- Speaker #0
It was a good group of people. It was a good group. Yeah, just, oh my gosh, just the people I laughed. I remember, I mean, middle school was just traditionally so hard. And I think if all of my clients are a good sample group, it's also just the worst for everybody. So I think there it was very much what can I do just to stay hidden. Like, what do I just have to do to like blend in? And then when I got into high school, it was far more of like, no, I actually, my body helps me stand out in ways that were really, really fun. Like, I remember just a memory that's so coming to mind. I was in a school musical and I was, so I was cast as, it was, it was Footloose and I was cast as the like best friend. And then my character had a boyfriend and they cast one of like the top three funniest people I've ever known in my whole life. His name was Alex. Alex Corelli.
- Speaker #1
Shout out Alex.
- Speaker #0
Shout out Alex. And he was on the other side of the spectrum. He was a male who didn't have like the traditional male body of like strong. Like he was real thin. And he. was someone who taught me a lot of like, when people would, the same comments they would make towards me about being in a bigger body, they would make to him about being in a smaller body. And he was able to articulate really well, like, hey, that's hurtful. Like, hey, that is an insult, right? Because you're telling me that I don't fit like what you think a man should look like. And he did an amazing job in high school of that. And I was like, oh, I, it gave me some categories to like, speak to that, you know. that there's this pressure across genders as well. Gave me some awareness there that I didn't have by growing up in a family of all girls. But I'll just say, we were cast as a couple. He's got at least a foot and a half on me. He is very, very thin. I've got a butt and thighs for days, and I'm shorter. And so we have these dances we do together. And I mean, just the hilarity of the juxtaposition. And it was just a really... fun like reminder that like oh my body like in the right space it's really great like it really it caused for like such a fun moment in that in the way the choreographer choreographer really used the differences in our body to create these like really funny kind of paradoxical choreography it was just lovely um and going oh like my body is fine my body's fine here and it's fine exactly how it is. Um, so there were definitely those moments that, that I, I'm very thankful for, but yeah, but then getting, I go, then we jump forward to the era of like independence and I have a single era in my early twenties that I go, my body once again was just, oh, I have to get this back in control. If I want to have a spouse get married, I need to be more, um, in that just, I need to be a little bit more in the mold. I guess. And there felt pressure there. And I think that was then the voices had just seeded and rooted in my head. No one was saying that to me. That was just, oh, it was embedded and I was living out that. I was being the next generation of, I'm just promoting that within myself, that I need to be smaller if I'm going to be in a relationship. And then get married. have kids, all the body changes that ensue. I'm like, and then I feel like I'm coming out of the era of my body is not my own and getting to like re-embody myself again after genuinely for about a decade going, oh no, my body is for them. It is for their comfort, their nurture. I am concerned about what they are putting in their body. I'm not. thinking about what I'm putting in my body anymore. And so it got really out of habit. For me to even focus on that and remember like, oh, I have responsibility to them, but I'm really responsible for me and my body in a way that it taken time to kind of come out of that and go and be more me focused in that way than just the others focusedness that I think is so inherent in motherhood.
- Speaker #1
So when you kind of going through even that that stage of. okay, I'm going into college, I'm going into my single life, I'm dating, all that stuff. Hearing those kind of like internal voices again around, I have to look X, Y, Z in order to get, you know, into a relationship, in order to get a spouse. Did you start to like, when did the work or awareness of that internal voice kind of become aware to you? Does that make sense? Like, when did you start to realize or was it? after kids where you were like oh I have a lot of this like hurtful distrust about my own self and my own body
- Speaker #0
I need to like maybe do some work to help heal that like when did you start to notice that piece hmm that's a good question because I think that part has always been there of like oh the way the criticism by which like the critic I am of my body.
- Speaker #1
So you've always been aware that that was like,
- Speaker #0
yes.
- Speaker #1
Okay.
- Speaker #0
Oh, that, that has been there in that awareness of like, I should probably be nice for myself or wow. I, but it was just under that like very big umbrella of like low self-worth or low self-esteem, whatever our like way we described that was. So it's just under that umbrella of like, oh, this is proof I have low self-esteem is the way I talk to myself about my body. But then there was that also like in the same breath, but my body is too big. So I think there was absolutely a shifting moment of, wait, maybe my body is fine.
- Speaker #1
I wish you could have seen her face.
- Speaker #0
Yeah, maybe it's not the problem. Like that came later. That came, I think, in kind of the radical. like evolution we have been having around women's bodies and men's bodies. Just the appreciation of diversity, the like the self-compassion movement. The representation has mattered so much to me, like not having larger bodies represented in any light other than negative in media and movies and TV shows and magazines. the voices that we like listen to and give authority like that has genuinely like if you're like oh my god this representation stuff who does this really like I'm like it affected me huge that I could see someone like you know Melissa McCarthy and not just like Suki fat funny friend of Lorelei Gilmore but like Melissa McCarthy really being an absolute leader in comedy and art in the creative beauty I mean beauty and then like just meaningful stories um I mean things like that have been Octavia Spencer, Sonia Renee Taylor, an author I really love just Lizzo and there's her absolute unapologetic oh yeah like yeah this is my body and you are insane if you don't think it is phenomenal right like just those attitudes of being like oh, that is actually another option. That is an option to not hide your body because it's large, but actually to absolutely like live in the reality of it being great and strong and beautiful and all of those things all at once and letting the haters hate and not like just refusing to shrink yourself. Like it would be a disservice to shrink yourself. Like just that phenomenal change of like, oh, like that is really, really been freeing for me of like those are the people. I think it's Brene Brown who calls it like your inner committee. Like,
- Speaker #1
oh, yes.
- Speaker #0
Right. Like that, like have that list of like three, four or five people. I don't care if they're fictional or dead or living in your life. But like I have the group of women in my head that I go, are are they? how would they speak to me in this situation or how would they embrace themselves in this moment if it were them and can I like harness that can I and those things they genuinely feel so empowering to me of being like Oh, no. And I mean, it affects the like the reality of like, oh, I I know there is a way to like there are clothes that work for a large body. There are more clothes now than there have ever been because there are people who are actually making fashion for larger bodies now in which that they would never were before. And so it's even like areas of that of going like, oh, my. My fashion has always been, well, what of those like six items on the rack could work versus going, no, there's like a completely new world open to me because of representation. So that's been hugely meaningful.
- Speaker #1
If you're like me and dinnertime creates so much anxiety and stress and you have very little time, especially if you have kids from the time you get home until bedtime, let me suggest Hungry Roots. Hungry Root has been a game changer for our family. Every week I go in and I pick out our meals for the following week. I get to select four servings, which is huge. A lot of delivery services don't allow for multiple servings like that, but it's enough to feed our family. They are really affordable, but significantly cheaper than what you would get with some of the other subscriptions out there that tend to be very pricey and fancier, I would say. than Hungry Root, but it also offers a lot of healthy options. And so you can pick different dietary restrictions. Like I usually always select anti-inflammatory for the family, which is like a lot of fish, a lot of veggies, a lot of chicken, but you can also select vegan, vegetarian, a protein, gluten-free, all these different variations that you can choose from. That's affordable. It's healthy. And almost every single meal is less than 30 minutes to make. And oftentimes if it's more than 30 minutes, it's just the... bake time that takes a little bit longer. The prep time on almost all of these meals is very minimal that even somebody like me who has self-claimed that I do not like to cook because it creates anxiety and stress in me, I can even make these meals. It's been easy on my husband, who's the one that cooks because I prepare ahead of time, like what the recipes are going to be. I pick them on hungry route and I choose things that are easy for his preference that I know him and the kids and myself are going to like. And it's made our dinnertime routine. so much easier in a way that none of the other subscriptions have. And it's yet still affordable as if we were going to the grocery store and getting our groceries. So if you want to try it out, I highly recommend it, regardless of if it's just you, just you and a partner or you and kids. It works for any size family, any size household. And if you're interested, you can click the link below and get $50 off your first box. No, and I love hearing that because I think people... I think we underestimate the impact of something like representation in all forms of media. But especially when you think about what we see visually, right? Like, and I guess magazines, they're still around, but like it is much more social media, still, you know, TV and movies. And to see the shift in, yeah, how we view our bodies. Like there's so many people I follow on social media that are like, I'm going to take a picture of my real body. And that, I mean, to me matters because, you know, I think we have obviously very different stories about self-image, but also so much of it that's similar because, you know, we're women and this is the period that we grew up in. But I think allowing, yeah, I think as you were talking earlier about like what age you were when you started to realize like, oh, I need to, yeah, I could be kinder and like accept myself. I think it's really, I mean, it's. amazing that you kind of had that awareness from childhood. Like truly, I think that's amazing because I'm thinking about like my growing up and I honestly didn't realize for myself how I spoke to myself until very, like probably until I started to get pregnant and have kids. And it was like having kids that made me realize like, oh man, if I talk to myself like this in front of a mirror, what's my daughter going to do? And that was like the aha moment for me as I'm sitting there trying on a swimsuit wanting to cry because it doesn't fit. You see the cellulite, you see all the things, right? And like going, oh my God, I got like, yes, I still think all these horrible things about myself or these are these things I don't like. But also look at my daughter. Like it gave me my daughter. It's kept me strong. It's kept me healthy. And I don't want her like her sitting on the floor. Like there's an actual scenario like I'm in front of the mirror trying on a swimsuit. my daughter sitting on the floor looking up at me and then I just start crying because I'm like, oh my God, I have to, I have to do something. But I think that's like the both of it that, you know, as you're describing is like, how do you, as you've come into that. And you've talked a little bit about it, like what meant the most to you, right? Like representation. You talked a little bit about body neutrality, but like talk a bit more. What is that? Tell me what that means. Oh,
- Speaker #0
yeah. That is just a it's a tool in the tool belt on the bad days for me. Right. It's the thing that I go. I am not. There's no there's no reality today where I'm going to get to the place where I love my body, where I look in the mirror and I'm like, she's great. Oh, she's so. Like, oh, that curve, that like that softness, that like there's no way I'm getting there today. Body neutrality is a great place to then strive for because all it's saying is going, can I just observe my body at a more like it's a body? It's doing what bodies do. It's okay. It's fine. It's like the lowest common denominator of acceptance, right? It's just I'm neutral to her. I'm choosing not to be critical. I'm choosing not to hate her. I am not going to sit here and try to like speak affirmations in the mirror when I don't feel them. And I'm not, I'm not sitting in like some high level of gratitude, but can I like get in a place of like reality that my body is a body. It's doing what bodies do. Everybody ages. Every body ages. the shape of bodies change. The trauma and miracle of childbirth, after childbirth, after childbirth.
- Speaker #1
I'm laughing because the trauma, I'm like,
- Speaker #0
yes.
- Speaker #1
Times three. Yes.
- Speaker #0
Yes. And I go, it is, my body is like, just today, I'm just going to let my body be a body and I'm just going to take a break from piling on more criticism. And so body neutrality has been a really nice thing for me to just practice when I am not in a loving state. And then I have moments where when I am in a like I'm having a moment. I mean, I remember seeing a bathing suits. Right. I mean, yeah. Talk about it like a like a kind of a cruel thing. Cruel idea for women. And from a person who has never once in my life wanted to peace, never have. Wait,
- Speaker #1
really?
- Speaker #0
never never there's an even as a kid no
- Speaker #1
I was rocking a one piece from like age five like I I don't I is that like if you don't mind me asking is that because of of how you felt about your body or just you just didn't like them like what was kind of or you just happened to just wear one piece oh I just think it was the rule no that I think it was just like the society rule that like a
- Speaker #0
bigger bodies go in one pieces and I mean I was a a big little a big kit a big little kit yeah so I just think it was the like oh those racks are like not for me I remember buying a two-piece in my mid-20s for tanning and I would wear it in the back of the house on a on a towel and I would tan in it but it was never something I would actually wear to go out or be seen or I mean or anything I mean it was a little like oh my roommates home and they're gonna you know going to see me but um and having to just talk myself through that like it's okay if they see you in a two-piece like it's it's a belly button I don't know it's not going to kill them um no I'm like I'm laughing because you and I've had this conversation probably so many times but that's still you know in talking about this episode I was like oh
- Speaker #1
my gosh you know when was the last time you ever felt comfortable in a swimsuit because for me personally it is like alarm bells go off when it's time to get a swimsuit out. Like our friends, for those of you listening, like our friends, I love you, Ryan and Shannon, got married and had the most beautiful intimate wedding. It was like at a house in East Nashville. And she's, you know, texting us and it's a small group of people and it's me and Heather and some others, some of our friends. And she's like, okay, well, we're going to do this really intimate wedding and the whole thing's going to be a pool party. And I was like, no, oh my God, shit. No, no,
- Speaker #0
no, no, no,
- Speaker #1
no.
- Speaker #0
Like, what are you doing?
- Speaker #1
because all I thought of was like, I have to get in a swimsuit in front of people. And like that, that feeling of just your, it's no longer about like, can you have fun? Can you just be with friends? Can you enjoy it? It's like sole focus of almost like that compulsive thought of like, oh my God, you know? And so in, in true me fashion, you know, I have my own story about this, but like I wore a cover up the whole time. And I just, I did. Yeah. I'm like, and I'll pull it up, you know, put my little feet in the water. But like, I just. I'm still obviously working on that. But I think back to this conversation we're having and I'm like, when was the time? And so hearing you talk about wearing a one piece since you were a kid.
- Speaker #0
Oh.
- Speaker #1
So like was even in your one piece, like did you feel confident and comfortable as a kid? Or were you like innately aware even from the time you remember swimming in a swimsuit that like, ooh, I need to look a certain way or wear a certain thing?
- Speaker #0
Yeah, I think the reality of being. very athletic and very, um, I was just a, and always have had a genuinely a personality of like really fun loving, like I'm there for the fun for the most part in most things. And so that, and water was always something I really, really loved. So I absolutely relate to like the insecurity piece of like, I'm going to have to take out my swimsuit. And what if people think of, what if people see my body and then they're going to judge my body that. is that can still be a thought now at almost 40 years old. And also, it wasn't actually going to stop me back then. Yeah.
- Speaker #1
Which is so impressive.
- Speaker #0
It's not actually going to stop me now. Yeah. Well, well, good.
- Speaker #1
I mean, to me, that's like the fact that even it feels like you were able to hold the two truths or the two kind of competing the tension of that multiple truths, even as a child. Which feels like a positive. I see that as a positive, like a strength to like who you are and reconciling those things, because that's like a hard. This is a very hard thing that even I myself and many others like it's still really hard to do. So like the fact that you were able to do it back then and go, hey, I recognize these things, but I'm not going to let it stop me from an experience or fun.
- Speaker #0
Yeah. And being I'm like, I also can't. I mean, you know me well enough to know I cannot sit on the side of a pool and be hot. No, this is true. I would rather be embarrassed than be in the water.
- Speaker #1
And this is where we differ.
- Speaker #0
Like I cannot be hot and uncomfortable when there's a pool right there. But I do. I think there's been like moments of there's definitely been moments of this opting out or moments where I'm so self-conscious it's taking me out of the moment. in a pool environment. Like I'm just not really having fun. I'm far more focused on what's my body doing, what's seen, what's not. That has definitely been like part of it. And also I had like, well, I'm having two thoughts because one, I do want to name that like, as someone who's always been in a bigger body, a way I have found to navigate the world is to be very like My body makes other people more confident in themselves in that moment. Like that's a friendship strategy that's literally been there at younger times in my life. Going like, for instance, I think a good example. I went to Japan in my, in college, last semester of college. Actually walked and then I... had to go to Japan and finish those nine classes, those nine credit hours before I could actually get my diploma. But I went and we were at a traditional like Japanese bathhouse where it's community bathing. So you would go in, I mean, women with women and men with women, but you would go in, get naked and wash there in a common room. And then you would all go sit in like a really, really, really hot, hot tub. yeah but there's no like but naked it's just but yeah yes all naked there's no swimsuits you're not the anxiety i'm feeling right now it's already through the roof yes well and i was with a group of i knew i was one of the oldest on the trip because i was actually graduated college um so i had there was a lot of girls who were there who were you know sophomores junior in college so i had a little bit of age on them just by like a year um and then i I knew I was going to be uncomfortable, but there was that switch in my head that went, if I can do it and I'm the largest body here, it's going to give permission to all the other women to just like be okay with it. Because if I'm going in, and so I, to much surprise of my roommate, Emily, at the time, I just, I led the way, stripped down naked, went in. I was like, come on girls, we're going in. Like, and I. It was like that was so, so much how I had learned to cope with. my own anxiety, my own self-worth was like, well, if I can do it and I'm the biggest body in the room, genuinely like the, the, you know, codependent me going, this is how I will help everybody else. And my body will, and in that my body will just, I'll just kind of disconnect, disembody from this actual, like insecurities I'm feeling or fear I'm feeling. And I'll make it about. How can I help them versus just sitting in my body with these feelings? And so, yeah, that was like, I think that was a well-established pattern very early on.
- Speaker #1
I'm even sitting here going like, I mean, so many thoughts because I never thought of it from that perspective before. I mean, and I could see that being both or like, you know, it's both so strong and powerful and amazing. And I mean. honestly incredible that you were able to take something so raw and like sensitive for you and flip it into a strength to help others. So I see that side of it. And also then I, you know, hearing you talk, I'm like, yeah, and also could be codependent and like an unhealthy, you know, adapting to a situation to go instead of thinking through and feeling my feelings and moving through those, I am going to make it about others. You know, so I see two sides to that coin.
- Speaker #0
But it really was like a, if I want to do this, if I want to be here and have this experience in Japan, I have to find a way to survive this moment. So it's, I mean, it really was like, it felt, and it echoes through so many different examples that ping in my head throughout my life of like, this is just the category I got to put this in right now to like participate. Otherwise I am going to. lose the moment I'm gonna lose the moment I'm gonna not be part of the the thing um because of my own fear so yeah it is it is um it is adaptive coping and maladaptive coping right it's great coping that it it helped me be in that moment I get to have these memories um and I also kind of get to practice being the self I wish I actually were which is like I got to portray the confidence, you know, like that I would like to embody more effortlessly all the while internally. It's like, this is a horrible idea.
- Speaker #1
Yeah.
- Speaker #0
Like that fake until you make it piece of it. Exactly.
- Speaker #1
Yeah. And also knowing that like there is some truth in, you know, I would imagine if you do that long, it's like exposure therapy, right? I would hope I'm like hoping for my own sake that like if I keep doing it enough. But like if you're working through it and processing it also on the side afterwards, like maybe there's that level of almost exposure therapy where you're like, you just need to be OK to be in your body enough to work through it. Like, do you feel like that helped you at all? Was that true at all? Like the more you do that, the more you become OK with it?
- Speaker #0
Oh, yeah, because now I get to look back on my life and go, I'm the type of woman who can can strip down in front of 15 other women. and impressive yeah yeah like I'm that type of woman because I actually did it and now I have that kind of piece of it helps shape my identity of I'm that like I I can do those kind of difficult things and challenge and not be in the little box not be in the like straight jacket um yeah that has been helpful but it was crazy I was I'm still like
- Speaker #1
Even 34 year old me is like, oh, OK, I think I'd find a way. But it would definitely take some some prep ahead of time to to get myself to that level. But yeah. And so what do you know, thinking about how has this affected your intimate relationships, you know, or like with Steve or even when you're dating? Like, have you seen an evolution in that? Like because you guys have been together, what you said. I mean 10, 11 years? No. How many years?
- Speaker #0
Yeah, it's been, yeah, this year it'll be 12.
- Speaker #1
It'll be 12, yeah. Yeah.
- Speaker #0
And we were friends. We knew each other for three years before we got married. We were in, like, a similar friend group. Gosh, he has seen so many different iterations. I mean, one of the things he supports me in and we kind of talk through is that reality of, like, Oh, when I, before I got married, I had really found this really lovely sweet spot of doing things that were really focused on. Being getting back to kind of that athletic spirit of me, that part that is uber competitive and loves a challenge. I was, you know, training for half marathons and a bunch of a bunch of like group exercise communities and things like that. And then by way of getting married and having children and really trying to play out that domestic. Heather, that I think really did in some kind of old impurity culture ways, which we can't possibly get into all of that. But I think that was what I was taught was like, okay, now we're forsaking all that. All of that was just a space holder until you get married. And that's the real purpose is being married and having kids. And so it's taken me time.
- Speaker #1
The purpose of?
- Speaker #0
The purpose of life. Oh,
- Speaker #1
yeah.
- Speaker #0
Yeah. okay yeah no i'm on the planet just also yeah very purity culture very yeah yes and i had a delayed start because it took me till i was 29 to get married so i that was all just isn't it funny it feels like late you
- Speaker #1
know what i mean like in the southern our midwest southern culture like purity culture 20 it's like we waited we were 29 i mean for my entire family as well they were like every time they saw me they're like
- Speaker #0
surely there's someone I'm like I'm having a really good time yeah in my life but it was it felt like a placeholder in some ways and then then I went head deep into caring and nurturing all these other little humans and supporting my husband and and and all the and and still being like an employee of a non-profit which is is hard because it's a lot of hats of wearing and giving yourself kind of to the mission. So it was not until in probably the like five years, and I have a three-year-old, so really in those last three years too of going, oh, okay, the pendulum swung too far. Like the pendulum has gone to a place where I have forgotten like what those interests are. I've forgotten how to care about myself as much as I care about everybody else. versus having been in a season where all I really had to care for was myself. So it's just like a pendulum swinging. But I also, once again, like self-compassion work is going, of course I did. Of course I did. Like given all the ways motherhood was defined for me, all the ways being a wife was defined, it being tied to purpose, of course I dove headlong and it took me a few years to realize. I can do all of that well and I can give myself to that and it is not fulfilling enough. Like I have I have things that I want for me that like my body is for me. It is not something that I can just routinely chronically give away and let be used up as if it's part of like the appliances of the home. like I have to take ownership of that. And so that's definitely like the journey now is going, yeah, getting back to like, what does this body want to do? Do you know how how does it want to be carried through the world? When does it want to rest? When is it hungry? When is it satisfied? And what does that feel like and look like? So I think of the impact on the relationship with my husband is he. He is able to know that when I'm asking for something, because we're talking about this, and this is a place of vulnerability for us, for me, and he can hold, thank goodness, he can like hold space for that. Like when I request something or when I put something on the calendar, like his work is to be as accommodating as possible. And my work is to like push against the constant like guilt. That I feel at taking any of the resources from the family.
- Speaker #1
Yes. Asking for anything. Yes. That doesn't benefit.
- Speaker #0
Giving resources. Yes. Yes. Yes. That's right. So that's how it shifts our relationship. But the relationship, thankfully, is strong enough. And. grounded enough to like be able to support that work. So it is, it's really hard. It's really, really hard work.
- Speaker #1
And how do you, when you're talking about like, okay, this is the work now, what does my body like need, want, like, how do you, I, you know, I think for a lot of people listening who maybe aren't practicing this and need to, I'm asking for somebody else, not me, but you know, how does that look like to practice that? Like, how, how do you practice that right in the moment? Right. So, okay. You're like today, I'm really going to be in touch with myself. I think for a lot of folks, especially women, there's this awareness you need to do that. But when it comes to the practicality of actually implementing it, what do you personally do that you found has been helpful and that works?
- Speaker #0
I am still very much figuring that out. I mean, I think Steve would laugh at the question going, I think we talked about this this weekend on our family retreat. Okay, how do I, how do I prioritize that? is still something that I'm figuring out because it does feel like I'm in the, I tend to understand it more as I get closer to that place of burnout of like, oh, okay, now I really need to be taking versus being the recommendation. And what I'm trying to do is be more on that proactive side of going, these are just the things, these are the places that it needs to be probably for the the sake of my family and for me, it needs to just. be the thing on my calendar that I like look forward to doing. And so if that is every month, there's something or every week, there's something like it just has to be something where everyone gets used to it being there so that it's less like a burnout of like, oh my God, I'm going to rip someone's head off. Or, or I'm just gonna have to go to sleep for three days to try to feel like I can somehow catch up. It's a little more of, oh, no, this is just like my Friday morning routine or this is my, you know, this is my Sunday afternoon time slot. Yeah. So that that's kind of my right now thing. And also, once again, having older kids, you're not quite here yet.
- Speaker #1
I'm not. I'm not.
- Speaker #0
But there is also this new mindset I'm having now of like the things I really like to do that are good for my body, good for my soul. good for my mind. I'm actually wanting to include my older son. And I can. And they can not. Yes. And we can actually, it can be a part of our relationship versus it being so like, well, mommy has to leave you to go enjoy her life. Goodbye.
- Speaker #1
And we can't do it with you there. Yeah.
- Speaker #0
Yes. Like going to enjoy things and, and having experiences or. You know, yeah, this tomorrow, don't tell him it's a secret, but I we're having we're going to make sushi. I'm going to teach him how to make sushi. So fun. He loves sushi and it's his birthday weekend. And I was like, that will be so much fun because I have wanted to make sushi recently. And it's, you know, it's a lot of steps and a lot of labor and all the things. So I'm like, oh, but what a great experience to like give him something that is it's nourishing to us both. It's good time. It's good.
- Speaker #1
like it's giving something of my past um that's good and kind of giving that forward has been nice that's that's a nice way to integrate it too especially if you have older kids too yeah yeah i'm imagining because i i'm five three and one as you know five three and one year old and it is this moment of like especially the younger one and two i'm like it's just a constant please don't die i like i can't look away for a second just please don't die just please don't hurt yourself, you know, and it's, it is so hard to get. into a space of, I think as I'm hearing you talk, I'm like, oh, it's, you learn so much. And I'm not saying it's just being a parent. There's so many other situations it applies to, but especially as a parent, you're in such a mode 24 seven of others, literally taking care of life. It's so easy to disconnect as an adaptive response to go. I need to disconnect from my needs and wants because they can't take precedence right now because I have to take care of. these humans. And even if you don't have kids, you know, that same thing going for, maybe you take care of your parents or your siblings or not even take care of, but just like manage, you know, that relationship or a spouse. So yeah.
- Speaker #0
Oh, work, romantic relationship.
- Speaker #1
Oh my God. Yeah.
- Speaker #0
So many things can, can slip in to that priority space.
- Speaker #1
And I think even hearing you talk about like the work of just setting it on the calendar, I feel like it goes, that, That is the key. Like the first step, right? Because it's going to take time. I know for myself, like figuring out what I want and need. Even if you gave me an entire day by myself, it's really taking me time. I would just sit there kind of like in shock of like, I don't know what to do. Like, where do I go? What do I want? I don't know. I have errands to run. I need to return some items. Like, that's not stuff I want to do. That's how I fill my time because I'm so not used to listening and feeling my body and, you know, what I need and want. So it is,
- Speaker #0
that is like the. That feels like the final frontier, right? Of like, there's so much introspection work and other work, whether it is, you know, for me, it's been a lot of purity culture recovery. It's been a lot of like working, Steve and I working together to like make sure the home is equitable, like doing that work very specifically together on, oh yeah, we can't replay. my household with a stay-at-home mom or his household with a stay-at-home mom. There's no stay-at-home mom here. Like we, and we both have a value for me also having a career and living that, living out my passions in that way and carrying that. And so, yeah, it's been like, those have been all building blocks that we've had to do first. And in order that I can have space on that calendar. I can feel deserving of that space on that calendar. Like there's a lot of work that has got to go into that. It's huge. Like there's been so many building blocks and it's still hard. So I go, yeah, if you haven't done some of that work yet, I bet it's really freaking feels impossible to like get out for that Pilates class or whatever it is that you, you know, would really, really love to do.
- Speaker #1
I think as we kind of wrap up the few questions I have for you, what would you say to somebody who might not have gone through obviously your exact experience, but somebody who is struggling in that space of, you know, body image, disconnection from self, like what would you say to that person and how to deal with the both of that, right? Like, what would you say to them?
- Speaker #0
I think because it meant so much to me, I would really recommend. If they're if they really want to fight for some self-compassion, right, because that's like the secret sauce. It's like the secret ingredient. That's the yeast in the bread that's going to add levity to this entire experience of life for them. And I go, if they're really serious about being more compassionate to their self and to stop rejecting their self. Right. Because if they reject if you're rejecting your body, you are rejecting yourself like as a human. Like this, it doesn't get to be, well, this is my body and this is me. Like it is all one thing. So if you are rejecting your body, are rejecting yourself. And like the work of self-compassion there is so critical. As I go, if you're serious about wanting to gain that skill, the skill of self-compassion, I go, it's an immediate like holding hostage of the social media. You're consuming the. voices that you're letting speak into that I'm like do you have enough diversity of thoughts and ideas and what beauty that's represented like it to me I go that's a really great place to start right and and if you're if you're still on social media I don't know I'm not and it's not good it's not a good place for me to do that work I think for a lot of people yeah yeah but I go if you are and if you're uh It is. It's like, who are you letting speak into that? Who are you inviting into those spaces, whether it be real people or digital people out in the world?
- Speaker #1
Which sometimes are the most dangerous because they're just there all the time. Yeah. And they probably say and do things that you wouldn't do with somebody in person. But yeah.
- Speaker #0
Totally.
- Speaker #1
Yeah.
- Speaker #0
But there are really great voices in that space. And there might be things that you're watching and listening to and consuming that are, they're just repeating the same. old lies. They're once again just perpetuating these same old beliefs about bodies and that there's a right way to have a body. There's a right size, a right shape. This is what beauty is defined and it's so, so narrow and it keeps a very small group of people in the beauty category and excludes everybody else. And so I go, if you're participating in that, if that's what you're consuming, then... And dang, self-compassion is going to be hard when you're at home and just with your body or you're just driving in the car, you're going into that meeting at work. Like it's going to be really hard work. Um, so yeah, that would be kind of the first, one of the first little steps of advice.
- Speaker #1
And I think I was just thinking for me, even that thought of, you know, I know what body neutrality is, but thinking of it as a tool, um, is helpful because, you know, like you said, there are so many days where you can't, you can't sit in that space of like, you are wonderful. You are beautiful. Your curves are just as they need to be, whatever it might be. Like, those are all wonderful things. I very much believe in affirmations. However, the reality of you're not always in a space to say that, to believe it. And so if you can just get into the space of acceptance and going, my body is just my body. It's one like you don't have to say it's wonderful if that's too hard. But like I'm just going, it's just doing body things.
- Speaker #0
Yes.
- Speaker #1
And that's OK. I'm on my period. I'm super bloated. Body doing body things. I'm whatever it might be. I am in a swimsuit and my cellulite is popping. Yes. Body doing body things like, you know, you don't have to pretend you love it when you don't because I don't know that that's necessarily helpful. Right. But like finding that balance of I'm working on this. I just need to accept it like it's just neutral. It's not good or bad. It's just it just is. I think that's huge.
- Speaker #0
Oh, yeah. Because a real appreciation of our body can actually grow from that like that begins the fertile soil. We're growing from the toxic soil of just shame and resentment of a body. If I can tell one quick story.
- Speaker #1
Oh, do it, please.
- Speaker #0
Because it does kind of tie in, especially, I had a moment in the last year, and I can't remember exactly when it was, but it was, we were swimming. I was swimming with my three boys, and I can't remember where we were, maybe a hotel or something. I don't know. I have two kids who are actually like swimmers. And then I've got my little one who's, you know, in the floating or whatnot. And I remember my kids, I just start floating on my back. And I'm just kind of floating, having a moment. And then I have one kid who comes and lays his, he starts floating and lays his head on my arm. And my other son comes and he's working on floating and he's trying. And it is hard because he's, you know, like 10%, 5% body fat. So he's... He's trying and he's floating on his back and he's got his his head is like right by my leg. And I'm just floating there with my kids who are using me as kind of an anchor as they learn to float. And I just had this moment of being like, I'm so glad my body is so fluffy. I'm so glad my body floats so effortlessly. And it was just like this moment of being like, I'm so glad I'm in a larger body that could like hold space for this moment with my kids. And like a mama ain't sinking anywhere. She's got this floating thing down. And just like this real moment of like appreciation of like, oh, I love that my body made way for this moment. And just being like without, I think, all that work, body neutrality, we don't get to that. place where we just go this is a body doing what a body does and it is such a lovely little moment um and then you know they played and dunked each other and the moment was ruined but it was a really lovely for a few seconds for like 30 seconds it was such a lovely float
- Speaker #1
along and i think that's so cool because it is when you that's to me that's an authentic affirmation you feel it you believe it you're in the moment it's so true to like oh, wow, I love this about my body. I love my body. And I think that that is, that's so powerful. And I love that. So yeah, I think as we wrap up, one thing I want to ask everybody does not have to be related at all to this conversation, body image or anything. It's called ridiculous or relatable. Tell me something just absolutely ridiculous about yourself that you're like, wow, this is, this is ridiculous, but maybe to some it's relatable. Yeah.
- Speaker #0
This took me a while to think of because I think most things are just ridiculous and ridiculous.
- Speaker #1
I have so many examples. I have a long list of personal ridiculousness. But yeah,
- Speaker #0
the one that came to mind for me, because it is one of the most ridiculous things that still exists in my life, which is really aggressive teeth brushing routine that I have. And my husband, my husband is like, for real, Heather. Gotta figure this out. But I think it's because I read an article. you know, in like YM or Cosmo Girl or something like that a million years ago that talked about how much bad breath is on the tongue. So I am like an aggressive tongue rusher in the morning. And I mean, I will brush my teeth really great. And then I will just every single day gag myself unintentionally because I am so aggressive in my teeth and tongue brushing. And I'm sure it's because of this one. I don't know, probably unsubstantiated article written by, you know, a 23-year-old intern Cosmo girl. And I can't stop. And now it's just the way you brush it. We've been doing it too long. It's not changing. It's not changing.
- Speaker #1
I mean, if it makes you feel better, I've never smelled bad breath from you. Thank you. So I might have to get aggressive with my own tongue brushing. That is so funny. So like a minute straight, just like tongue brushing.
- Speaker #0
I mean, I'm just, yeah, I'm just really, I want to feel like squeaky clean.
- Speaker #1
Taste was gone.
- Speaker #0
It's probably it. That's probably actually what's happening is I'm damaging and hurting myself.
- Speaker #1
That's so funny.
- Speaker #0
But I was told to do it and it's old habit now. Hey,
- Speaker #1
and it must be working. We think. Maybe. Well, thank you so much for being here and just opening up. being honest and vulnerable and sharing kind of what your both is. I just want to say thank you so, so much for being here today with me and listening to this podcast. It means the world to me that you would take time out of your day to be here. And if you loved this episode with Heather, please let me know. As I mentioned earlier, Heather is an amazing therapist. If you're interested in learning more about how you can work with Heather, please visit her website at mytherapistheather.com. I will also link that in the show notes below. And if you haven't done so already, please take a moment and subscribe and leave a quick rating and review of the show on Apple Podcasts by clicking the link below in the show notes. Not only is this super impactful for the show, but it also helps others who might be struggling with some of these same things to find us. And I love hearing from you so much. So please follow the show on Instagram at itsbothpodcast to join the conversation and get behind the scenes content. You can also send me an email directly at itsbothpodcast. bothpodcast at gmail.com. Thank you again for listening. And remember, it's okay to feel all the things because so many times in life, it's not either or, it's both.
