- Speaker #0
probably okay yeah does it matter we're like we're very loud all the time we owe them because they're really there yeah
- Speaker #1
100 100 i've never held a mic this feels i know i'm like stand well like could we like make you one i have a big one but i was like i'm not gonna bring my like floor mic yeah that feels excessive okay let's see we're good um And then for each of you, oh yeah, it is selected on each of yours. Echo cancellation.
- Speaker #2
Yes, it's on mine.
- Speaker #1
My poor baby's working so hard over there. That computer you have. Well, welcome. So good to have you guys here.
- Speaker #0
Yeah, happy to do it.
- Speaker #1
I am so excited to talk about today because little kids are like all I think about. Fortunately, unfortunately. So before we jump in, I wanted to kind of hear from you guys and have you tell us a little bit about who you are. Whoever wants to go first.
- Speaker #0
You can go first.
- Speaker #2
I'll go first.
- Speaker #1
Go first.
- Speaker #2
Like what's professional? What's a professional person? I'm Hannah Wolchin. I am a mom. It is a major part of my identity in this current season of life. I am a co-founder of Elevate Consulting with my lovely business partner who's here with us and also serve as the chief research and evaluation officer for this fine company. I am married to my wonderful partner. And like, who am I really? Like, that's a great question right now in this particular season of life. Right now, it feels very much like partner, mom, business owner. Sometimes reader of science fiction and fantasy.
- Speaker #1
You can get a second.
- Speaker #2
Get a month. Get my habitual online window shopper.
- Speaker #1
Are you like, do you go as far as to put it in the cart and then you just don't buy it?
- Speaker #2
What I don't ever put in the cart, I put it on my Pinterest board, the place where ideas go to die. So I'm like, I pinned it and I'll come back to it and that never happens. But that's where they go.
- Speaker #1
That's healthier than what I do, which is just buy it. I might need a place where they need to go to die.
- Speaker #2
It's definitely like, it's like you break the seal. Like you buy one thing and then all of a sudden it's a lot easier to buy.
- Speaker #0
A hundred percent. Or it's like it's on sale. And you're like, it's on sale.
- Speaker #2
Or shipping is going to be free. Right.
- Speaker #0
Right. Yeah. It's a whole thing.
- Speaker #2
Yes.
- Speaker #0
Okay. My turn. Hi, I'm Amy Merrick Campbell. I'm also a mom. of one three and a half year old little girl, also married to my husband. And fun fact about me and Hannah is we both married, I guess we can call high school sweethearts. So we've both been with our partners for like a very long time, like more time at this point, more time than we were not together. So it's wild.
- Speaker #2
Really?
- Speaker #0
I think we're on like 21 years. that we've been together. I mean, it got dicey during college.
- Speaker #1
Doesn't it always though?
- Speaker #0
But since like 2007, we have been totally together a hundred percent. So anyway, yeah. So we've been together for a very long time. I'm the CEO of Elevate, which I co-own with Hannah and our third business partner, Jessica. A little bit about me. I grew up in Appalachia, so that's very much part of like my identity and like who I feel like I show up as a lot. Um, which means the accent will sneak out at inopportune times, even when I think it doesn't do it. Um, I am like a little chaos tornado. I think most of the time is just like how I show up. Uh, and thankfully I have people in my life who work around me in that. Um, I like to read.
- Speaker #2
Um,
- Speaker #0
yeah. And right now that's about it. That's about all I got time for. Yeah. I'm in the business of being a mom and maybe I get to read a book every now and then. Yeah.
- Speaker #1
so i think the way you both answered was so spot on too because it when somebody flipped this on me and asked me in one like episode they're like what about you and i was like i don't know no idea that's why i'm asking you this like can you help me figure it out right yeah yeah and
- Speaker #0
i think like i was i had my daughter during covid so it's like between covid and like having a baby i'm like i don't who am i like i don't know like pre-pandemic pre-baby i have no idea Well,
- Speaker #1
when did you start your business? I was just thinking about that too. That was pre-COVID.
- Speaker #0
It was pre-COVID, but it really like kicked up during COVID.
- Speaker #2
All of us were full. We started in 2016, but all of us were actually full-time in February 2019. Yeah. It's been a little bit of a runway.
- Speaker #1
Yeah.
- Speaker #0
So it was like full on business owner, COVID babies. Like, so now I'm like, I don't know. To ask me in five years. Yeah.
- Speaker #1
Yeah. So yeah. And sometimes if you're like me, like, I don't feel like I'm ever going to get out of that space. I'm like, I don't know. Don't even ask me in five years. Cause I'm never going to know. Like I'm just perpetually in this space forever. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not going to struggle.
- Speaker #0
Leave it over there. Let it be. Yeah.
- Speaker #1
So that's a great. segue. You know, we're talking today about parenting young kids specifically. And just the bothness, which I know isn't a word, I'm making it a word for this podcast, the bothness of that, like the chaos, the ridiculousness, the insanity, sprinkled in with like the really sweet moments. And the life that that gives you also the life that that drains from you. So talk to me about like, what is it like for you guys to parent?
- Speaker #2
young kids uh what does that look like yeah this is a subject in which we are experts on yeah ad nauseum yeah um i will say like in thinking about this and like how do you coalesce your thoughts like collate your thoughts about being a parent i think it is fundamentally defined by the both and that is my biggest experience with it and yes i'm a mom to two kids i have a five-year-old daughter and a two and a half year old son so we are in it um And I remember after having our first, I was like overwhelmed by the feelings of both like you can be both angry and happy. You can be both proud and embarrassed or ashamed. And so it was like it was the both feeling the both literally at the same time, like seeing them in your brain and not just the feeling, because I think there are other moments in your life where you can feel multiple things. But it was like health. far apart on the spectrum yeah emotions in a short time in the same yeah yeah never felt that life and so i you know in as more friends have had kids and like people ask about your experience as a parent like that is actually what i'm like you will never feel more combating emotions at a scale and scope you've never believed possible at the same time yeah until you are a parent and you learn how to hold that so it's very like spot on i think particularly for my experience as a parent.
- Speaker #0
Yeah. I think for me, I have two thoughts. One is like, so the whole, like I'm both a mom and I'm a business owner and like it, in some ways, like there's a lot of overlap, you know, relating people. And so like you're dealing with people, so emotions and whatever, but it's like the, the turnoff of like, okay, I have to turn mom off. Like I drop you a daycare and I have to turn mom off. Yep. And then I have to switch into CEO. And then I have to turn CEO off and I have to be mom. But it's still like, you know, how do you hold both of those things at the same time? And then even like, so we took a trip to Scotland, I don't even remember, two years ago, I think. Whatever. I don't even know. We went to Scotland like two years ago. And I think like we left her with the parents. And it was one of those things where it was like, or the grandparents. And I was like, man, I'm so. glad to not be with her right now. And also like, I miss her so much and I feel so guilty. So it's just like navigating all of that. Like, who am I? Like, how do you hold both of the things of like, I want to be with you. I don't want to be with you. I need to not be with you. Like, I need to stretch this part of my brain as like a professional and whatever. And also like, I really just love you and I want to hang out with you, but also I'm going to kill you. So anyway, all of that. So that's like one way I think about it. And the other time it's like really acute. like instances like bedtime for me is like yeah bedtime is like Amy like yeah well I want to hear like for me it's like I do so Justin does bath and I do like the pajamas and then brush the hair whatever and I it is like a dead sprint and she's in this phase right now where like I'm sitting on the floor and she just like collapses all the time and i'm like what are you like stand on your own two feet for the love of god and you're already touched out and like you've done dinner and you've done the whole thing and so i'm like i want to murder you but then we like get the blanket and we get the books read and she's so freaking cute and then you kiss her and you put her in the bed and she's a good sleeper so there's that oh man lucky but like you have that and you're like oh god you're so sweet and then you walk out and like literally every night we walked out and we're like okay like what are we gonna do so anyway yeah that was a long answer but man the bedtime is where i'm like yeah i just all at once yeah well and for me it's definitely it's all of that
- Speaker #1
And also never having, especially with three kids, like it's hard. I don't know that the multiples makes, well, it does make a difference, but because if one of them is okay, it's likely one of the other three are not. And so for me, it's like never having, and I just realized this, aha moment the other day, never having time where I'm not like.
- Speaker #0
Somebody's feelings.
- Speaker #2
Reacting.
- Speaker #1
you know so there's never the time for me to like recoup do you know i mean there's very little time of that because yeah like you said you're flipping into work or you're flipping into oh yeah what about being a wife like being a good partner which i feel like we probably all could assess i feel like i need to apologize to my partner because that's the first thing i feel like that goes because you're like we're good we good okay Yeah. We'll connect at some point. point, but like order of priority, you and I can handle ourselves. But it is one of those moments where you're like, yeah, when is the time where you can like turn off all the things? It's not just switching back and forth. It's like turning off all the things and just existing.
- Speaker #0
Yeah. I don't even know.
- Speaker #2
With the pressure of all of the things that you know that you have either put off that you need to do or would just like to do, you're waiting for this teeny little sliver of time that often, I don't know about you all, but I just end up in like analysis paralysis and I'm like.
- Speaker #0
Yeah. Yes. Like you look at.
- Speaker #2
Like, what do I, is it something I can do and want to do or something I need to do? Like I have an hour.
- Speaker #0
And then, yeah. And I wind up like, I'm like, okay, let's watch 20 trailers on Netflix or I just scroll. And it's like, okay, time to go to bed.
- Speaker #2
Yeah.
- Speaker #0
Yeah.
- Speaker #2
I will say bedtime is an example of the both and because yes, it's like you both, like you are both at your sweetest, most vulnerable. I love you so much. Also, I am.
- Speaker #0
Done.
- Speaker #2
Yeah. The other thing I find a lot at bedtime is also like one of the places where I am shaping against, I think, some of like the expectations I hold for myself or have come from somewhere else where I'm like what I'm supposed to be, like the boundaries I'm supposed to be holding with my kids.
- Speaker #1
Yes.
- Speaker #2
Because our bedtime, we have some little delay tactic magicians. They are an infinite of ways to. Just dilly dally. So I have, and I know, I know that they are asking for connection. Like when they dilly dally, when they're like, I need one more drink or I need one more thing or like the whining starts. Like, I know you just need connection. And also it is 845. I need to go to sleep. Like in holding that boundary, like you're like, you're both like, I love you so much and I see you so much. And also like, and guilt for being like, but I have to teach you.
- Speaker #0
Right.
- Speaker #2
This is what I'm supposed to do.
- Speaker #0
That's right. And you need it for yourself.
- Speaker #1
Yes.
- Speaker #0
Right.
- Speaker #2
so many so much guilt so much like empathy for your kid and also like such fatigue yeah all in one moment yeah that's the best way to describe it because for me it's like there's this one second line honestly where I'm like
- Speaker #1
I love you so much and then before I can even finish the words I'm like now go to bed and then you know my three-year-old is like really in a scared phase oh yeah scary Oh. I know it's connection. I know I could just spend a little longer with her and she'd be okay. And yet also I'm like, I just need my time. Just look.
- Speaker #0
Nerves are like frayed. Yeah.
- Speaker #1
And then we haven't even talked about like gentle parenting. Oh my gosh. Like Dr. Becky, you know, the little feelings type stuff. Yeah. Because that for me is also what comes to mind of like.
- Speaker #2
Yeah.
- Speaker #1
In my head, I'm saying something like you're not, if we don't do this, you're not going to get this. And as I'm saying it, I'm like. that's a threat of a punishment right you shouldn't be doing a threat to a punishment here's what i should be doing yes and i'm still saying it because i'm like what i don't have the capacity to figure out what's the thing i'm supposed to say right like yelling i'm like i'm yelling and i know we shouldn't be yelling that
- Speaker #0
i feel like is the hardest thing is like you know you should be doing something differently but like because you you default to like whatever your upbringing or whatever it is there are times i just look at her and i'm like i don't even know how to respond right now because my brain cannot pull up the the appropriate response that you're supposed to have so and that tension too i mean like literally in the same moment feeling so proud of myself for being like girl you're in it and you were like and
- Speaker #2
the shame and guilt and be able to do that just a little bit because yeah you dr becky and i mean i do think a lot of that i mean I've taken some you know, social media breaks because of course the parents, I'm getting all of that. Right. And so you do have that on a loop, but yeah, both of those things are and that is a weird.
- Speaker #0
Yeah, totally.
- Speaker #2
Yo-yo back and forth between like, to do it better. You're doing great, but I can do it better.
- Speaker #0
You're doing great.
- Speaker #1
All in the moment at the same time when for me, I have three kids screaming. Oh my gosh. Hitting each other. And I'm like information overload. And then that's where I'm like,
- Speaker #0
right.
- Speaker #1
And I don't say shut up. I don't think I've said that luckily, but like it's the verbal response of wanting to be like, or like, yeah, exactly. And then how do you move in that moment? Whether you have one, two, three, whatever. It's exhausting.
- Speaker #2
Yeah. And then to see them replicate some of those things that you're like, glad you're picking up.
- Speaker #0
We love that. Yeah. We, so we just got a dog. and he's teeny tiny and he's actually been really great so he's an older dog whatever but
- Speaker #2
I like Parker yells at him all the time and I was like that's because I'm yelling at him all the time like so like it is like that whole thing of like I'm trying to teach you the right thing mine is because our daughter you know is also very concerned about the parenting of our son and so she feels like it's necessary to parents same um what I've noticed her doing my go-to and I'm Thank you. like they're either not doing something in particular which is particularly triggering triggering for me but be like do you need help with that like i'm gonna do it for you and i have noticed uh our daughter with her son when he's not listening to her do
- Speaker #1
you need help it's the tone for me can i help you with that can i help you with that can i help you with that i do the same thing can i help you my oldest daughter recently there's a lot of like good that sometimes has been passed down i would like state that which i'm sure it's the same for you but when i hear it the most is like yeah the less than ideal things totally and she's very much the oldest one to the she's almost six to the one that's almost four is like i am so tired of this always and i was like shit no six-year-old just says that like you know me and my husband are like i'm just so tired of the constant.
- Speaker #0
Okay. Yeah.
- Speaker #1
And so the older one Sophie's like, this is the place for this thing. And this is the place for this thing. Honey, you need to be cleaning up. Oh,
- Speaker #0
my God.
- Speaker #1
It's fun.
- Speaker #0
How dare you use my own words.
- Speaker #1
There's moments. So, like, that's, like, the crazy. And then there's moments where, like, I see one of them cry or I even cry or get overwhelmed. And they stop what they're doing. And they're, like, like my older daughter the other.
- Speaker #0
day was like it's okay to be sad i was like it is okay yes like oh some good is getting through yeah that's a good reminder too yeah but oof the other stuff yeah intense i would say too like
- Speaker #2
just thinking about like just the full range of emotions i think there is also like a little connected to that there's like this amazing like wonder and awe and pride too it's like about them like growing yeah gosh like this is so amazing and then like at the same time like mourning yeah grief like that they're not like babies anymore like you can't go back to that and like that actually is one of the things that like is
- Speaker #0
sudden and it's like in certain moments but it's like gut punch like yeah i'm not a baby anymore i feel like when we decided to have one kid. like that got really acute for me because it's like, I don't have the opportunity to like go through any of that stuff again. Like, so anytime it's like, oh, we're out of the like, whatever milestone phase. And now we're into this milestone phase. I'm like, oh, I don't get to do that again. And also, thank God to do this again. I was just thinking that. So it's like, it's hard. Cause it's like, I know I'm not, you know, gonna see her, you know, learn, she just learned how to like ride a little scooter and like, that's it. Like that's the last time, you know? So, but also like, great. I don't have to carry you when we go on walks anymore, you know, because you can ride your scooter. So yeah.
- Speaker #2
Actually yesterday trimmed the passies.
- Speaker #0
We're going to.
- Speaker #2
Yeah. Oh boy. It needs to happen. Like there's a bunch of transitions coming. I'm like, we do not want to be like weaning you off from the passie while we're trying to do like potty training or like you move up in your school and all that kind of stuff. And I've been dreading it and dreading it and dreading it. And yesterday I was like in the bathroom, like trimming. like fighting back tears and also but it's like he did so good he was like yeah he was like i don't want these anymore these don't work anymore we can't give them to bb he's his cousin who's going to be more exciting um he was so good about it i was so proud but i was also like the passing Also, I'm not throwing these away.
- Speaker #1
They're like full of mangoes.
- Speaker #2
I think I need to put them in his box.
- Speaker #0
Totally, totally.
- Speaker #1
I feel like my middle child got the worst of it because after the first, I feel like with the three, it got a little easier in some ways. Like, you know what to expect. You know the hard. You know the good. You know, the middle one where we weren't sure if we were going to have a third. So I was in that. I wasn't in the space yet of. appreciating, which I am with my third, of like, oh, the last time. And with my first, it was like, the first. But that poor Addie, like, man, you were right in the middle of like, I was like, shit, I'm doing this twice. Am I going to do it again? I don't want to do it again, but I do want to do it. So like, I feel like that I'm just now getting to enjoy it. I think the most, which kind of sucks, once we knew it was the last.
- Speaker #0
Right, right.
- Speaker #1
And it's still incredibly hard, but there are moments where it's like. that is the last baby i don't ever want a baby again also you know you get that baby fever even though you know you really don't want a baby totally have a baby i'm like i get to hold a yeah we and i'm like also i get to give it back so
- Speaker #0
the dog y'all like that was like i was like do we really want to have another baby we got a dog i was like nope we're good i could cuddle this little dog yeah yeah no on this
- Speaker #2
Yeah. Those little things like as they tick by your life. Yeah. And then of course, my, my, my theme is always guilt. It's like,
- Speaker #0
why,
- Speaker #2
how did you not appreciate it more? Like I need to start paying more attention. There's different pictures. Pictures. I need to document everything.
- Speaker #1
Yeah. And how do you like work through the guilt? I mean, because for me, it's the same, the guilt and the shame of like, and I think I get stuck in that. I'm so aware of so many things and I'm always in pursuit of trying to be. better, which I think are great qualities. But then I get overwhelmed with like, it's never, I'm never doing enough. I'm never doing good enough. I'm never like, so how do you like, how do y'all deal with the guilt of like, oh, I should be appreciating this moment or cause that gets hard for me. It's like, to be honest, it's hard to appreciate. I'm like, why am I not enjoying this? Yeah. I should be enjoying this. Right.
- Speaker #0
I honestly think like having a like close relationships with other moms who can be like, you need to let that go sister. Like Or like, just even like in this conversation, it's like, oh, this is a universal experience. Like, I think we all feel some measure of not enough, or we all feel some measure of like, we're not doing it right or whatever. And when you look around, you can be like, okay, like, that's probably not true. You know, like, cause I look at you guys and I'm like, you guys are doing great. You're crushing it. And like, so I think having that community is like so important. Yeah. Cause even us, there are times when we'll be like, what did you do for blah blah blah and then be like okay but wait so what did you do like we have those moments where it's like you know so yeah i think that for me is like one of the ways that i can get out of my head a little bit or like look at my husband be like well i'm doing better than you just kidding just kidding you cannot sleep no i think you do
- Speaker #2
Well, the guilt is going to happen. Yeah. But I think at the beginning, I was beating myself up over the guilt, like actually feeling it at all. Because like that just totally was like, that's what you're supposed to be.
- Speaker #1
So you were guilty about the guilt.
- Speaker #0
We love that.
- Speaker #2
So I'm so many layers. So this is far for the worse for me. But I think the biggest thing that has helped, and I feel like this is a journey you never really end. But it's like accepting that. And I think hearing other people being like. that's just a thing that is gonna happen yeah right now and being able to be like yeah babe like you're in it you're just in it and it will end like there will be an opportunity for you to work on that later if you so choose right right now is not the time right now is not the time you are spread too thin and i think yeah when you are able and it doesn't happen all the time but when you were able to take a step back and be like, I see it. It's happening. It's just going to happen. it does at least make it a little easier to bear and be natural.
- Speaker #1
So how do you guys pick what thing to focus on? So do you know what I mean? Like for me, there's at all times 15 things competing. Oh, we have to be healthy. Oh, we have to get, oh, we have to be emotionally intelligent. Oh, we have to be aware of all these things. Oh, there's partner, there's work, there's kids. There's how do you, there's the house, there's cooking. How do you pick the thing that you're going to let go of? Does it change every second or like, do you have a strategy?
- Speaker #0
Jessica, our third business partner, actually, she is like, one of the wisest humans i think we would both say like i don't know nearly as well as you guys so like anytime she says anything like okay yes write this down but she talks about like polarities like when you and you have the both like you have this over here and this over here she's like we think that like we have to shoot the middle every time and she's like really it's just this time you do this one and this time you do next one and you may do two in a row but then you do two in a row over here and so like i try to hold that of like okay even if i can't I mean... make sure that we have vegetables at every meal and I can't make sure that my house is even remotely clean or whatever. But it's like, how can I at least just like touch them all like, and get, get in the rhythm of being like, I can let that one go. Cause I have paid attention to it recently. Like we had a super healthy meal last night. Like you can have an uncrustable for dinner. It's fine. Like, or whatever, so that I could focus on something else that I feel like gave me a lot of permission to be like, I like that a lot. All right. Every time. Yeah.
- Speaker #2
Yeah. Somebody, it's like, it's going to average out over time. I wish I could remember who it was talking about this, but it's like weather. Cause in the context of like those days where like you feel bad as a parent, really, if you've gotten on your kid, like I'm not proud of like what I did. And it's like that idea of like, it averages out over time. Like if there were, you know, 80% sunny cloud, uncloudy days, and there were one or two storms, like the way that you remember the vibe is actually the sunny uncloudy day. So it's like, let it go.
- Speaker #0
yeah there's moments where you're like i can't do it all i didn't react the way that i wanted to um like ultimately it's fine it's okay you don't have to be 100 and like picking your battles man like we this child she has a piece of candy every night after dinner because i'm like you know what in the grand scheme of things you can have a hershey kiss after dinner i am not gonna fight the meltdown of like yeah we'll brush your teeth lunch You know, so like trying to decide, like, what are those things that are just not the hills I'm going to die on?
- Speaker #2
Yeah. I will say too, lately, a thing that I have been noticing about myself is like a check. It's like, and we talked about this a little bit, but it's like when I notice myself feeling really urgent,
- Speaker #1
I'm like,
- Speaker #2
like you get that feeling where you're like, you start running on the hamster wheel and you're like, okay, all of it has to happen. Yes. Like that actually lately has been a, okay, let's just pause for a moment. Is it urgent? is it necessary and you know i don't know that i'm always picking right right in that moment but like at least it's this check on your expectation really it's your expectations about yourself i think um in conflict with some other their society or something else that you're like i need to hold myself up to that standard but yeah checking
- Speaker #1
my urgency that's real that's something i very recently came to too was in in therapy i was like i feel rushed yeah all the time. And that's what creates anxiety. I mean, there's so many things that create anxiety, but for me, I was like, I feel this sense of urgency and like chaos of a hurricane. Yeah. And then when I have a moment and it's usually during my workday because you don't have humans, I'm like, I don't have a meeting. I have a few moments, you know, to what you said earlier, what am I going to do? Am I going to meditate? Then I'll sit there for my 15 minute break going, am I going to take care of myself? am i going to get a snack am i going to do the laundry and then my 15 minutes is up and i'm like time is gone and then it's that same chaos again i'm like yeah instead of just picking like i could just pick like you were saying just do one yeah rather than sitting in the like what am i gonna do and sometimes i think it's like do the one that you feel called to like it's like we know you
- Speaker #0
know like we know what we need or we know like your body right exactly and it's like there there are times when it's like, if you can. do all of the like getting centered enough to be like what is the thing i really feel like i need right now then i do feel like you can be like okay like we really need to hold the line against next right now but getting in that headspace like you said of like it's chaos it's chaos it's chaos and then taking the step back that part that's the hard part i feel like yeah but you can listen you know i honestly answer your original questions like it's largely reactive yeah
- Speaker #2
There is no strategy. It's like, what is the biggest fire that is screaming? That is what gets attended to. But hopefully, you know, over time, that averages out.
- Speaker #0
Yeah.
- Speaker #2
What needed to happen. Our children are fed. Right. You know, the house isn't on fire.
- Speaker #0
Bills are being paid. Yeah.
- Speaker #1
They know they're loved.
- Speaker #0
Right. Exactly. Their clothes are mostly clean. Yeah. It's fun.
- Speaker #1
My daughter goes to school with like holes in both of her knees.
- Speaker #0
I'm like,
- Speaker #1
okay. I've even had a teacher be like, do you guys, I'm like, Oh yeah, we're fine. I just like, there's the pants are still fine. Yeah. There's holes, but like I have three kids. I'm not buying more clothes. But I'm sure.
- Speaker #0
Yeah. She had something all over her sweatshirt that she didn't have when I put it on her. but I was like whatever
- Speaker #2
i don't know the daycare dirt i can't get it you know it's so nasty he's perpetually saved like it's too close i'm like well this is gonna last the season exactly yeah oh
- Speaker #0
I know they're so bad. So what about like how relationships have changed? You guys have had kids. This could be in relationship. It could be friends, could be work relationships, could be your partner, family. Like what are the biggest things that come up for you and like how those relationships change specifically with little kids because I think now i'm saying this not having older kids but from the people i've talked to that have older kids there's a whole different phase that we're in right now yeah pre-elementary and even in those first few elementary years that changes later but like right now with like pregnancy postpartum
- Speaker #1
birth and early years what has that done for your relationships i it's hard for me to divorce that actually from the context of covid because i also we had our first during covid and i think particularly with like friendships i would say like i think a lot of the community you build around yourself like in those early years because i think you're right like i think there's a phase where it's like they're little kids and then you get to school and then all of a sudden this sort of like world opens up to you in terms of you know friendships adult friendships but that was not there yeah um and so i feel like we sort of missed that experience and are sort of still feeling like the remnants of that a little bit Um, but the relationships that we do have with particularly folks who have kids, those are so much deeper.
- Speaker #2
Yeah.
- Speaker #1
That, you know, I was never really a person for small talk, but then like having a child, I was like, I could talk to anybody anywhere who has a child. Easily. There's always something to connect on. There are always experiences that are shared just by virtue of like having a tiny human that you are like supposed to feed and care for. Um, and so like in that way, it was both like isolating. a little bit and certainly the relationships that like just didn't continue after having kids because it's just so hard you just do not have the time to like nurture that whereas others where that experience was shared it was like those are so much deeper now um just because you can look at each other and be like that thing yeah um i will say too like it's effect i would it's affected all of them, but family's been an interesting one. Um, both in that, like you get. to, it's like, I have a new connection now with my parents in terms of like understanding and being so much more empathetic than I ever was pre-kids to like the choices that they made that maybe I disagreed with, but now I'm like, I understand. I understand why you made that decision. But also this new dimension of, I think, navigating like where your boundaries are and where their boundaries are around parenting. I would say we've been very fortunate in that for the most part. Like we have not had to fight very hard to be like, we want you to do these things with our kids, with the grandparents. And also like, it's just a new conversation. It's just a new dimension of that relationship that wasn't previously there. And then partners I'll pause there.
- Speaker #2
That's fine. I agree with everything you said, especially like the family one, not just like my like parents and my in-laws, but like. I'm really close with like my aunts and uncles and some of them have kids and some of them don't. And so like to see them like come in and like love on my kid has like been really special and awesome. And I, and on the flip side, again, it's both right. Like I was like, when I was, when I was growing up, I was like, I'm not going to be like your traditional like girl. Right. I'm going to be like the president of the United States. I'm like, do not burden me with childbirth. Like I thought for a long time I wasn't gonna have kids. And so like, I had to navigate this, like. this kinship right that you feel with parents that like you need and is important and also like it was almost like I had to be like but like don't put me in that camp like don't just call me a mom like I'm not just a mom like don't just talk to me about my kid because I have this business that I'm really proud of and like I have you know all these not all these things this life's hard but I have this business that I'm really proud of you know like but there are other dimensions that I don't want to just be put in this box of mom and I feel like when you have that connection, it's easy to like, to like jump on that. So yeah, that has been a weird one to navigate. And then, yeah, partners, man, I don't even know. It is like what you're saying of like, they're the ones that's like, they can handle it. So like there are times when we do, we just look at each other and we're like, I'll catch you tomorrow, you know? But I do think as Parker gets older, like, I feel like we have to be like, Thank you. okay no but we need to make that time like we actually need to sit down we need to like call the babysitter we need to go to dinner like whatever and yeah that's that's hard i think just managing the logistics of it too it's like you just need
- Speaker #0
a week to regroup around like okay where are you gonna be a night a week sounds so i know it's i know that's what we need but it's like it also sounds like yeah okay what is happening yeah right let's get that either but i think there's a both and two that
- Speaker #1
around like i you know you like i had never felt so supported by my partner before because it's a good yeah It's just... most intense group project we've ever been on and like he is a team player yes he's in it right and also like i have never felt so much resentment yes not so much for the like the things he is doing but the way like society expects him to show up that he can link to oh man we've talked so much about this but it's like that was new yeah um and certainly has added like a new flavor to our conversations about like.
- Speaker #2
our relationship because it's like there's some things like you're just not expected to do yeah but i need you to do something yeah yeah you didn't see it like let me make you aware yeah that kind of thing yeah and i think like the pressure like we've like justin i've talked about like you know you get the sitter and like there's they come and then you like you got the dinner reservation and like you're ready to go you got your nice clothes on and then you go to dinner you just like sit and look at each other or talk about your kid because it's like i think like there's such an identity shift like in having kids that you're like, oh, I haven't had time to think about even who I am. And then now I have to relate to you and you're different, you've changed too. And so it's like trying to like, be like, is this our first date? And I've been with you for 21 years. Like I know you deeply. And also like, yeah, it's like, how do you make space to be like, okay, we actually have to figure out how to relate to you. each other again.
- Speaker #1
Like really connect and it takes time. It's like, yeah, what's new and good with you? I could probably spout off some superficial things, but like the last time we actually had a conversation about something that was concerning or you were like really mulling over.
- Speaker #2
Right. Right. Yeah. So real.
- Speaker #0
Yeah. And I think for me too, it is the both end of like feeling both the most love and connected and supported. Like, oh my God, I'm so lucky we're in this together. Yeah. And also it throws you into this space of like, it's so hard to not score keep.
- Speaker #2
I am. For me,
- Speaker #0
it's so hard. I'm like, that's not fair. It's not even. And I know logically, I'm like, but it's never like, it's always going to fall one way or the other. The pendulum swings, you know, periods of time, I'm going to be doing more periods of time, you're going to be doing more. And also, you know, there's a lot of things that I think as women, at least for me, like the mental emotional load like he does an incredible like there's so much he does in that we're partners yes 50 but the things that he doesn't do that i do feel overwhelmingly harder whether they are or not they feel like the hard emotional mental stuff yeah and so it is hard not to score keep because you're like can you jump in and do the like emotional stuff and i'll do the house stuff like let's just swap right you take this burden from yeah um but it is hard to like And then how do you, if you get a date night, how do you put the scorecard away and be like, can we just like have fun and date again?
- Speaker #1
Sometimes that actually feels like the thing you need to connect on. And you're like, I don't, I don't, I'm so sorry to be like the Debbie Downer on the limited amount of time that we have, but like we have to talk about that. Yeah.
- Speaker #0
That's always me. I'm always the one who's like, can we talk about the really hard thing and then we'll go get drunk and play. Can we get this out of the way? I can't be authentic until we talk about it.
- Speaker #1
even like the emotional work you do to decide whether or not to like settle or struggle over that oh god yeah running that over in your head is like is this something that i feel like i feel like a victim enough about that i need to say something or like also like i just don't want to deal with it like i don't actually have extra emotional capacity to deal with the like successful resolution and like right yeah
- Speaker #2
and like holding the feelings and my feelings of all that space anymore i just need you to fix it right I don't know about y'all too, but like the scorekeeping thing, I scorekeep the shit out of him. But I also scorekeep for myself because I'm like, am I doing enough? Am I?
- Speaker #1
Well, because my resentment is unfounded if I'm not doing. Exactly.
- Speaker #0
To back up your argument.
- Speaker #2
Right. Yes. So that's exhausting too. And it's like, just let it go. It's fine. But I can't. It's fine.
- Speaker #1
Yeah. I do, just to like validate that though, like I really think when you become a parent. Yeah. Those differences that maybe like you were like talked a lot about like being equal and like being more like breaking some of those stereotypes until you have kids, you don't realize like how many of those are like so deeply ingrained. Oh,
- Speaker #0
yeah.
- Speaker #1
Like this idea of like the default caregiver, the default parent, like and having to talk about those explicitly.
- Speaker #2
And like the things that we were like socialized to like growing up and like skills that we developed. Like I am a better cook because I'm a girl and my mom made me learn how to cook. And he mows the yard better because he learned how to mow the yard. and so it's like i would love to like show parker that like
- Speaker #1
it doesn't have to be the mommy in the kitchen and the daddy doing the outside projects but like those are our skill sets like it's not just it's just like those that's what we're better at efficiency is a premium it takes you two hours to cook a meal we don't have time and we don't have two hours we don't have two hours to eat them on the lawn exactly yeah yeah it does feel like yeah wrestling with that it's like i want yes i want to like show them something different and i know how important that is and also yeah I find that you slip into them so much more. Yeah.
- Speaker #0
I'm lucky that I don't cook at all. Like I'm the one who would take two hours. It's not that I can't. Like if the kids aren't around, I've made Thanksgiving dishes for like get-togethers and they're great. But it took me all day. For like him or his mom, it would be knocked out in an hour.
- Speaker #2
Right.
- Speaker #0
But then for me, it's like the emotional. That's I'm the go-to.
- Speaker #1
Yeah.
- Speaker #0
So similarly, like it's not maybe mowing the lawn and cooking. We have some reversal, which is amazing because I hate cooking. And also you still find those patterns and like us trying to nudge in the other direction. But then again, you're talking about skills and capacity building, which none of us have the capacity for. No.
- Speaker #2
Absolutely zero.
- Speaker #1
Everybody. Like I did the same time that he did. Right.
- Speaker #2
That's true.
- Speaker #1
We, you know, we can learn together on that. Sure, you know, there are things like because like I birthed the baby, like there are some things that I'm just going to have to do. But at the same time, like in terms of like parenting skills, we are doing, we are learning together on that. I am not more intuitive than you. I am certainly not more than you. Yeah.
- Speaker #2
Yeah, that's real.
- Speaker #0
I was just looking at the, I could talk about relationships all day long.
- Speaker #2
That's real.
- Speaker #0
Have you, have either of you, well, you kind of talked about this a little bit, Hannah, but like had more of the reverse with other like in-laws or parents where, not that they're not doing the things you want them to do, but rather you want them to stop doing certain things. And like, you don't have to call anybody out or anything, but like, have you had situations, maybe it's not in-laws or parents or whoever, where you've like, maybe it's even a school where you've had to like, be like, actually. I don't want you to do that because that's been really hard for me. Like I'm an Enneagram nine. So I'm like peacemaker and like, I don't want to make anybody uncomfortable. Now with my kids. So I see something and I'm like, Oh, I got, I got to say something. I don't want to do this. I don't want to say it. They're going to look at me weird and I'm going to have to go say it.
- Speaker #2
Yeah.
- Speaker #0
Like, have y'all experienced that? And what's that like?
- Speaker #1
Not yet. And I say yet because I could see a scenario in the future and I'm almost like waiting in the wings, like waiting to swoop a little bit when it happens. But I have thought for a long time, body image, particularly like comments about how much my children are eating or how their clothing fit or that kind of thing. I'm It could be very different. I could be, you know, not giving credit to people, but I kind of anticipate some of that as I get older. And that is, that is something that I will have to say something about because like, we don't need it. We don't need it. Yeah. Like they're going to get enough of that.
- Speaker #2
Right.
- Speaker #1
And I have like terrible body image and we're trying to have like loved ones, you know, feed that about my kids. So it hasn't happened yet in a way that I've felt like I needed to step into it. something that I kind of anticipate.
- Speaker #0
Yeah.
- Speaker #2
I think mine has been around like religion because we're up in East Tennessee. Like everybody is like evangelical Christian, my entire family, my husband's entire family, like, and I am not. So, and it's a little triggering. I mean, as body images, I know like triggering for me too. Like, so it's like, and we had a couple of family members die. So it's like, already I'm trying to navigate like how do I answer questions about death with my three-year-old yeah my very inquisitive very observant very sensitive three-year-old who literally is like what where do we go when we die and I'm like how are you asking this story I thought I had a few for you but like yeah and then like family members are like stepping in to like answer that question yeah the way they want to answer it and I'm like I I need you to stop like you were confusing her Like And this is my job. Like, this is my, I get to handle this question, not you. And I probably don't handle that as delicately as I should always. But I do think it's like there are certain boundaries where I'm like, this is my job to like, and I get to make this call. And if it hurts your feelings, I'm sorry. But like, or if you disagree with me or whatever, like I get to say to my kid, this is how I want you to think about this. Or this is how I want you to be able to hold multiple. truths or whatever so that's one for me that i'm like i constantly feel like and like that's a hard one yeah and like i want her to be able to go to church with my mom because like whatever she wants to go hang out and they sing songs and she's happy it's like school you know she should be exposed to you like yeah exactly but it's like how do you navigate the like but also don't indoctrinate yeah i think
- Speaker #1
so yeah speaking of religious disease the other day will asked if god made humans who made god
- Speaker #2
Oh, blow my jaw. I don't know how to answer that question. Yeah, Parker gets on a, like, who made my body? And I always say me because. Because you did. Because I did. But I can see, like, family members who are like, God made bodies. And I was like, no, I made your body. And so, yeah, so I can see, like.
- Speaker #1
Is it actually pictures? Yeah.
- Speaker #0
Yeah, that's funny because, like, I feel like I'm a recovering. evangelical that's what I think about and like also a recovering codependent so like how do I set a boundary yes so worried about upsetting you which is crazy because I'm like I'm angry and hurt but if I tell you that that's gonna make you angry and hurt so let me just not yeah I'll just deal with it yeah and like stop it stop it and I think my kids have helped me push out of that yeah it's been incredibly difficult but it's like oh
- Speaker #2
actually no it's like so much clarity yeah When it's your kid.
- Speaker #0
Because it's not you. You can't let yourself get beat up. Right. Whatever the thing is as much. And I think that's one of those beautiful both moments of going, oh, having a kid actually is helping me love myself a bit better.
- Speaker #2
So real.
- Speaker #0
And beat myself up a lot.
- Speaker #2
I do think like those things that are like really healing, though, of like I get to choose to do this differently. And I can see that like, you know, she doesn't go like stress about. what happens after you die now? Because she's like, okay. And off she goes, you know? So it is like really healing. It's like hard. It's hard and healing, right? Like it's hard to have a conversation and set the boundaries and think about how you want to approach it. But like, then I look at her and I'm like, oh, like I deserve that too. You know? Like, so.
- Speaker #1
To have a model for it too. Cause I think there are some areas where it's like, we are trying to do things a little bit differently than we experienced growing up. So like, I don't have the script. I'm like. right give me the word yeah um but like i really do see that paying off both in terms of like they are so much better able to be like you know i'm feeling angry yeah okay it's fine also you can't hit right also
- Speaker #2
mom hack i legit will go to chat gpt and say how do i talk to a three-year-old about xyz and it's not perfect but it like gets you an idea i know man
- Speaker #0
This is off topic, but chat GPT, I was like so against AI. And then there's times where I'm like, I'm going to have to use chat. Like, I don't want to, but I'm going to for like stuff like that. Because again, you don't have the capacity and right. You have a tool to make it a little easier in a few ways.
- Speaker #1
Thank you. Notes.
- Speaker #0
Do it. Chad.
- Speaker #1
Yeah,
- Speaker #2
totally.
- Speaker #1
Here's kind of what I want to say. Just make this a little bit like more thoughtful.
- Speaker #0
Yeah. yeah totally maybe i need to use it i don't supervise anybody at the moment but i have and i'm like maybe that's like because those are also the conversations yeah smart i don't know my employees with you know like the improvement conversations yeah we haven't thought about that at all that's a great not to get us off topic but i'm like for me i'm always like oh how do i do this i mean i
- Speaker #2
don't have to do any
- Speaker #1
The content, it's like it goes in as a bulleted list and I'm just like, could you just massage this?
- Speaker #2
Yeah, help me not be nosy. Yeah, that's real. I totally get that. That's funny.
- Speaker #0
So before you all became moms, were you aware of this both and? Or and I guess even as a mom, have you been aware of the bothness that whole time or has it kind of gradually become aware to you?
- Speaker #2
I think definitely for me, it has been being a parent. Like, I think I grew up in a world that was very black and white. And I just don't think I had the, well, one, I don't think I could feel it. I remember explicitly standing over the bassinet and she's screaming her head off. And, and I'm having this moment of like, I want to throttle you. Like, I'm like, this is why people shake their babies. Like literally having that moment. And also this, like, I feel so helpless because I can't help you and like whatever. And all of those feelings. And I think it was this real, like light bulb moment for me of like, wow, like I have felt this way a lot in all these other situations. and I have not had the like. language or the context to be able to like articulate it so I think being a parent it's somehow just like like illuminated areas of my life where I'm like oh like I can apply the same framework because I can see it so clearly with my kid you know like I can see it so clearly with my relationship with my kid that like you can you can have this level of gray or you can hold two things at once um you know in other areas of your life
- Speaker #1
yeah yeah i would double click on that and i think i felt gobsmacked by it because of the disparity in the emotions like i know i've felt bittersweet before like and i and i fully could have like empathized with that emotion where that's like it's a little sad but it's also really sweet right like those are a little closer together on yeah yeah from like the range that you could feel in the same moment like i had never felt that before and it was it was like you can't ignore it. Yeah. I literally like felt smacked.
- Speaker #2
It's like equal both.
- Speaker #1
Yeah. Yeah. So it's like, how is this possible not to be literally like torn in half by like the, and the intensity of that feeling. And again, like, I just don't know. And I do apply that in other places. I'm like, Oh, you're feeling, but they're, but they're like a little maybe closer again. Like you're feeling both. You can imagine like accept both, but I, I can't think of another experience in my life that has just made it so apparent.
- Speaker #2
I do think it's been interesting too. We've talked about this a lot as like, as we kind of like grow into leadership positions, like how much of that, I feel like I'm a much better leader because I'm like, not saying that you can't be a good leader without being a parent, but like, I think concepts like the both and have made me more reflective, more empathetic, more thoughtful as a leader that I'm like, this is a hundred percent a parenting lesson. that I am now applying to this scenario. So I feel like that has been something that.
- Speaker #1
I mean, I will say too, like sitting in the gray takes out emotional capacity and like, but you can't ignore it anymore. Like I can't, I don't think I could ever go back to a world where I'm like, it is black or white. Right. Like that just doesn't exist. That's not accessible to me anymore. And that's both like, I think that's a level up because that really is how the world works. Like it's really healthier to accept it that way. And also that just takes a lot more. I'm out of you. I've got to weigh both equally. I need to like explore both.
- Speaker #2
Yeah. And I can accept that both things can be true and whatever.
- Speaker #0
And I feel like it, yeah, I second all of that because for me, it also has pushed me into another phase of like, it's not just feelings. I think feelings is where I started with this concept, but it's also ideas. Like if you get into things like politics, I'm like, it's so much more, or like we work in nonprofit space. Well, I'm more so than you, but You are obviously very heavily involved, but you know, you get all these people together from different sectors and you hear their vastly different priorities and to be able to sit now and go, you're both right.
- Speaker #2
Right. These are equally important to both of you.
- Speaker #0
And I see the like value behind why you're saying this and why you're saying this and how do we find a solution that meets both of those things? And it's not necessarily always in the middle. Like it might be this, this piece from over here and this piece from over here. But I feel like this idea of bothness came and pushed me, especially like having kids, takes it to that next level. Like leadership, there's all these things that I feel like kids have, like even when I did have a pretty large team, there were so many concepts where I was like in my head and like, I'm not looking at my team as kids,
- Speaker #2
but also. Right, I know. But we're all humans.
- Speaker #0
We're all humans. Yeah. And like, you know, the codependent thing or like I'm not responsible for your reaction thing. And there's things that I learned.
- Speaker #1
parenting i was like oh well there you go like i'm responsible for your reaction i'm responsible for how i present it right but yes into it is not my job to take and that you're entitled to how you feel about it but i can't let you do this that's not how you exhibit that yeah it's susceptible to a whole like nuanced boundary holding yeah
- Speaker #2
dr becky dr becky says oh you're it in our early but like she says Kids need validation, empathy, and boundaries. And I'm like, that's not just kids. People need validation, empathy, and boundaries. And like, as a leader, I'm like, that's all people are looking for. They want to feel seen. They want to feel like you understand them. And they want to know what the line is. And it's like, damn, okay, well.
- Speaker #0
Dr. Becky solved everything.
- Speaker #2
Yes.
- Speaker #1
I mean,
- Speaker #0
I'm not even kidding.
- Speaker #2
Right. No, but seriously. So,
- Speaker #0
yeah. So what would either of you say to anybody, you know, don't even think of it as advice. Like, what would you say to people who are in this space, either whether it's a woman who is parenting young kids or just a human, a parent of any kind?
- Speaker #1
I mean, I do think. My MO lately and what I would recommend to other people is like, rather than struggling against it, if you find yourself squirting, acceptance really is the key to being like, and I think flavored with a little bit of self-compassion for like the season of life that you're in to just say, okay, it is a shit show, but it's my shit show. It's going to be here for a minute. You know, we have this conversation a lot about like, okay, what could we. shift around to make this easier like make it easier where you can yeah just very hard no hard that's very high expectation right but like make it easier on yourself yeah it's okay to make it easier on yourself and that whole thing about like it's okay to not be okay because like you probably aren't right especially
- Speaker #0
like when they're really little oh gosh yeah you're not yeah that crib scenario you're talking about oh like i even got a visceral p i'm like i know exactly what it brought up the like mental image i had of just like
- Speaker #1
yeah but yeah i think the best of your ability like accepting where you are yeah accepting it's probably not where you thought you were going to be or you know where you expect yourself to be and yeah it's okay and it's okay i like that it's okay to like hack it yeah
- Speaker #0
like where what can you do to make it easier yeah and like release yourself of the guilt of making it easier i feel like there's so much guilt oh my gosh tied with like it's a cart i'm like deliver my groceries yeah yes yeah
- Speaker #2
Yeah. I think mine is like, I think a lot about like discipline. Like I said earlier, like I'm a little bit of a chaos tornado. And so like, I think for me, it's like, how do I stay disciplined about the things that I know are going to continue to like fulfill me? Like being in community with other people, like that is important. Like we have like a standing dinner once a month that we get our kids together because like, I need to be in front of people once a month. Now, wouldn't I tell me that as much as I do? I don't know. But like, I need that. And I want my kid to have that. And so it's like, I try to protect that. And like, I try to be disciplined about that. And like, even like the taking time for yourself, I'm really bad at that one. So like, whatever. But like, the like, I'm going to take an hour and I'm going to go to the bookstore and I get a cup of coffee. I'm going to walk around the bookstore in silence. And it's not going to kill my husband to like, hang out with her for a minute. So it's like, how do I stay? discipline about doing some of those things when it's easier to just say no. And like, the other thing is like, I read this, it was a meme, whatever on Instagram the other day. And it was like, not a meme, but whatever. But it was like being annoyed as part of being in community. And so it's like, I think this idea of like, sometimes the thing that you need to do, gives you a little friction and that's okay. It's just part of it. And so it's like, how do I push back against the friction? Cause I'm a seven. I don't want discomfort. I don't want pain. And so it's like, how do I push past the discomfort of like making sure that my house is clean so people can come over?
- Speaker #0
So that I get the payoff of people coming over, people coming over and we get to sit around and have drinks and our kids in the playroom quietly, you know, for like an hour. So anyway, I think that's the thing is like, how can you have discipline around the things that you know are going to be good for you?
- Speaker #1
I would add to that, too. I would encourage people to release the pressure of self-care and or that's good. Complicate your definition. Because I found myself like early on, like self-care was a very narrow thing that you did. It was like, you go get a massage. You eat right. And like there's a full spectrum of things that might be self-care for you that are none of those. And that's okay. Like literally sitting in the dark in silence.
- Speaker #2
It's so much. Isn't it great?
- Speaker #1
But like people feel like that's not productive. Like there's this like self-care is like productive. And that is not.
- Speaker #2
that is capitalism yeah yeah so release that because that's just another thing that you're probably expecting yourself to do that is like unnecessary and may not actually work for you it may not actually be caring for yourself i actually just went through this i made an excel sheet and with like four different tabs of like because i think there's self-care and then there's like stress reducing activities because there's like a massage does help me right it doesn't last very long though. The effects of that massage are very temporary. Every once in a while, I want to go do that or get my nails done. Yeah. But it is the sitting in the silence moments. It is taking a walk around my block moments. It is boundaries for me, I've realized. Like, that's the self-care. Yeah. Because if I don't set the no or whatever, you encroach in my space. And then that's when I'm like, you know. So I did, I made this like Excel sheet of like, what's free that actually helps? Well, first I started with what's free was low cost, mid cost and splurge. And then I went in and put everything online that people say, and I've been testing it. Oh,
- Speaker #0
I love this.
- Speaker #1
Part of the cost, like time investment too, or like planning? No,
- Speaker #2
but that's another level I should add to that. It's just money right now.
- Speaker #0
Interesting.
- Speaker #2
But because I was like, and I've been working on this for like a year in therapy. I'm like, nothing helps me. Like you're telling me that I need to care for myself and I need self-care. Like what the hell? Like none of this is helping.
- Speaker #0
Right.
- Speaker #2
I test out all the things.
- Speaker #0
I love that.
- Speaker #2
And what can I do for free and test it out? And then I'm kind of like ranking what makes a difference.
- Speaker #0
Ooh, I love those.
- Speaker #1
That too, because like it becomes sort of like an admonition. Like you, when you're like not doing well, people are like, well, how's your self-care? Like it's your fault.
- Speaker #2
What the hell do you mean by that?
- Speaker #1
First of all. Right. So like, yes, like I love that. And also like we've talked about this, but sometimes the things that may be more self-care for you.
- Speaker #2
Exactly. For your kids.
- Speaker #0
Oh man, so real.
- Speaker #2
100%.
- Speaker #1
And you just don't know that until you try it. And yeah.
- Speaker #2
Because like working out, I work out so consistently. Like I prioritize it, but it doesn't actually make me less stressed. I think like I'm sure it does. The science says that it does. But I do that at this point to like keep my body in a healthy state. Exactly. Like I don't want my bones disintegrating. You know what I mean? I want some muscles like right on. So I'm like, okay, I got to retest this. Like, what are the things for me that actually help? And I always got sick of people being like, well, take a walk. And I'm like, you know what? I'm going to test this. I'm going to take a walk and see if it helps. It does. I'm like, damn. It's like,
- Speaker #1
I'm taking my fucking mental health walk for my fucking mental health.
- Speaker #0
Yeah, it's so real. So real.
- Speaker #2
No, those are, I think both of what you said, though, is so helpful. And even for me, I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, really? So like, yeah, how can I be disciplined about, I think. Yeah, reframing it like self-care and how can I be disciplined about the things that I know actually help my internal. Like, you know, I think of it like this deep breath, like the things that help me go.
- Speaker #0
Yes,
- Speaker #2
exactly. Whatever that is, is what I need to do. Yeah. And if it's in a dark room or for me, it's like sitting on my bed, laying on my bed with the windows open in the sun. I'm just like, do anything.
- Speaker #0
Right. Yeah.
- Speaker #2
Sitting in the sun outside.
- Speaker #0
Yeah. So important.
- Speaker #3
Well,
- Speaker #2
as we wrap up. I like to ask everybody at the end about something as a segment called ridiculous or relatable. It does not have to be related at all to what we're talking about today. But what is something that you do that is totally ridiculous? It could also be a little bit relatable.
- Speaker #0
I'm going to let you go first.
- Speaker #1
What I hope is actually that this is more relatable. But I totally have driving and parking anxiety. So does Girlfriend Google? the directions and the parking situation before she goes anywhere new why yes she does well yes she does we scope and i can give you all the games before i've even arrived Yes. Anywhere. I'm actually trying to back off on that. That's like my exposure therapy. I'm just feeding my anxiety a little bit.
- Speaker #0
Are you afraid you're going to get lost?
- Speaker #1
Both that I'm afraid I'm going to get lost. That like a thing I, a narrative I have about myself is that when I get lost, I make terrible decisions in the moment about how to get myself back on track. Like I can't fix it. Just getting into it at all because like if you're in it overall, you're...
- Speaker #0
Yeah.
- Speaker #1
So we...
- Speaker #3
Like,
- Speaker #1
it's fucking true. And then the parking thing, it's like, I just need to know. I just need to know.
- Speaker #0
Just help you fill letters.
- Speaker #1
Like, parking spaces are small.
- Speaker #2
Do you have a big car? Okay.
- Speaker #0
Do you also look at the menu before you go to a restaurant?
- Speaker #1
Most of the time.
- Speaker #0
Oh, okay.
- Speaker #1
These are all things that I'm trying to, like, translate. Just a little bit. Like, it just confirms your anxiety, right? Like, you do it every time. You're like, well, I knew what to order. And I know. I didn't crash my car.
- Speaker #2
It's lost. The menu especially hits me because I get in the moment somebody asks and I like, again, I like recovering codependence. Like, I don't know this. And then as soon as I ordered, I'm like, I don't want that. I didn't say that. And so it helps me like know in the moment. I'm like, no, I want this. And if they get it wrong, I'm like, actually pushing myself to be like, I'm so sorry, but actually I don't want that. You know? Yeah. So I get that. completely and in the parking yeah yeah because i can't parallel park so i'm with you i'm like i need to know what the situation is because to be mentally prepared to do so or what what happens what's the scenario when you don't what does that look like when i don't when you don't prepare google or look up parking it's fine it's fine because again i've been trying to do this more recently like we went to lunch
- Speaker #1
a couple of weeks ago at a place I'd never been, Gojo, Ethiopia, which is fabulous.
- Speaker #0
So good.
- Speaker #1
And I was like, I am not going to Google the directions ahead. I'm just going to let Google take me there. And I'm not going to, like, do Google Street View to, like, find out what the fuck I was laughing at.
- Speaker #0
And it was great. They had a lot in the back.
- Speaker #2
It was great.
- Speaker #1
It was perfect. It was fine. I didn't crash. I didn't get lost. It was great. I didn't look at the menu ahead of time either.
- Speaker #2
Oh. You had three big wins. Four, because you got to see a friend.
- Speaker #3
Hey,
- Speaker #0
I didn't realize.
- Speaker #2
Yeah.
- Speaker #0
I think mine, so you were talking about sleep earlier, like my sleep habit,
- Speaker #2
the whole thing. So there's that.
- Speaker #0
But I do think mine is like my book reading habit versus my book buying habit is totally, those two things do not align. So like anytime I'm like, I just need a little treat. I'm going to go buy a book. how many books do you think I have? And how many of those have I not read? Like a whole, whole lot of them. And, but I like, and finally I'm like, I'm just a collector. Like, I like to organize them and I like to look at them. I like to be able to loan them out. So I'm trying to give myself grace and I don't have any time to read any of them. So I think that's mine.
- Speaker #2
You're not an art collector. You're a book collector.
- Speaker #0
Exactly. Exactly. But my husband was like, why are you bringing another damn book in this house? I built you built-in shelves.
- Speaker #2
At least that will last. Like if apocalypse happens, like you can just pack your books and you've got entertainment forever. Mine is like I am a sucker for buying like health and wellness shit.
- Speaker #0
Oh, okay.
- Speaker #2
Oh, my God. It doesn't matter. It could be skincare. It could be for your back, like for posture. Y'all, I even bought this one time. I bought this like squat machine. what is a squat machine i need to sell it it was like ridiculous and i've used it 10 times i'm like what a waste of money and i've gotten a lot better because i'm i do the budget and like nicole rein it in um because it was this i think going back to self-care conversation i thought those were things that was like investing in me exactly you know but it's not books it's like or i'll buy something you know to like clear out the pores on my skin and i'm like what do i really need that
- Speaker #0
think about it for a second wire cutters yeah i'm like yeah i do the same thing with fingernail polish i have a fingernail polish problem huh it looks cheap it is cheap it is like a nice little like ten dollar like dopamine hit but i was organizing all of them because again i'm a collector right i like to put them in their places and i was like this is out of control like i gotta do something about this yeah so inundated yeah shit justin's like you gotta i'm about to give you a one in one out roll like if you buy one you gotta give one away at this point they're probably expired and nasty and like gloopy anyway right so i cannot throw them away i don't know because they're pretty colored yeah
- Speaker #2
uh i don't know i can tell you it's like five years because all my nail polish i've had for like 10 plus years yeah it's pointless to keep it anymore it's so gloopy oh my god because something's wrong but i haven't opened it yeah i wouldn't even know not from when i like today's a rare exception like i put my nails this week but back when i used to have the time to yeah no
- Speaker #3
exactly yeah so that's mine well it's so good to talk to you guys and thanks for taking care yeah that's good those were good
- Speaker #2
I like that a lot. I feel like I relate. Not with books because like, if you leave your...
- Speaker #3
Welcome to It's Both, the podcast where we explore the messy, beautiful contradictions of being human. I'm your host, Nikki P, and each week I sit down with real people navigating life's complexities. Those moments when life isn't just one thing, it's many. This week I sit down with my friends, Amy and Hannah, as we talk about all things parenting young kids. the complexities of parenting. Welcome to It's Both, the podcast where we explore the messy, beautiful contradictions of being human. I'm your host, Nikki P, and each week I sit down with real people navigating life's complexities, those moments when life isn't just one thing, it's so many. And this week I sit down with my friends and co-workers, Amy and Hannah, to talk about the complexities of parenting young children. In this episode, we talk about the duality of feelings that parents experience, the chaos of daily life, and just the struggle to balance work and family responsibilities. All the things that come with parenting young kids, like managing guilt and expectations, especially with the evolving dynamics of things like relationships with family,
- Speaker #2
friends,
- Speaker #3
co-workers, and the importance of connection with our community and the importance of connection. the importance of, and the importance of connection and community. And lastly, we talk about the intersection of parenting and how it helps to improve things like our leadership abilities, emphasizing how parenting experiences can enhance leadership qualities. Welcome to It's Both, the podcast where we explore the messy, beautiful contradictions of being human. I'm your host, Nikki P, and each week I sit down with real people navigating life's complexities. Those moments when life isn't just one thing, it's so many. This week, I sit down with my friends, Amy and Hannah, as we talk about all the complexities around parenting young children. Those things like the duality of feelings that we as parents experience, the chaos of our daily lives, and just the struggle to balance work and family responsibilities. We also talk a lot about the challenges around managing guilt and expectations, especially when you think about all of the evolving dynamics of relationships with our family, friends, coworkers, and ultimately the importance of connection. So let's jump in. Welcome to It's Both, the podcast where we explore the messy, beautiful contradictions of being human. I'm your host, Nikki P, and each week I sit down with real people navigating life's complexities. Those moments when life isn't just one thing, it's so many. This week I sit down with my friends and coworkers, Amy and Hannah, as we talk about the complexities of parenting young children. We talk about the duality of feelings that parents experience. We talk about the duality of feelings that parents experience, the chaos of our daily lives, and the struggle to balance work and family responsibilities. We also talk a lot about the challenges of managing guilt and expectations, especially with the ever-evolving dynamics of relationships with our family,
- Speaker #2
our friends, and even our coworkers.
- Speaker #3
We talk about the intersection of parenting and leadership, talking about how things like parenting experiences can help enhance our leadership qualities. And ultimately, we talk about the importance of connection. And we talk about how important it is to make sure we're staying connected with those that we love. So let's jump in. And we talk about the importance of connection. So let's jump in. So let's jump in. Thank you so much for listening today. I can't thank you enough for just taking the time out of your day to be here. with me and with others as we learn together to hold multiple truths. If you enjoyed today's conversation with Hannah and Amy, please let me know. Let me know what you thought. And also if you have any interest in learning more about what Hannah and Amy do with their company, Elevate Consulting, you can visit them at their website at consultelevate.com. I'll link that below in the show notes as well, but they help organizations and communities maximize their impact. through connection, learning, and action. So they help develop strategies and goals. They help increase capacity and support implementation and drive and measure outcomes. And they do this for programs, for organizations, and for collaborative groups. So if you're interested, please check them out. So if you're interested, please check out their website at consultelevate.com. Again, I'll link that below in the show notes. And if you haven't done so already, please, please take a second and subscribe and leave a quick rating and review of the show on Apple Podcasts by clicking the link in the show notes. Not only is this super impactful for the show, but it also helps others who might be struggling with some of these same things to find us. And I love hearing from each of you. So please follow the show on Instagram at It's Both Podcast to join the conversation and get behind the scenes content. You can also send me an email directly at itsbothpodcast at gmail.com. Thank you again for listening. And remember, it's okay to feel all the things. Thank you again for listening. And remember, it's okay to feel all the things because so many times in life, it's not either or, it's both. Thank you again for listening. And remember, life isn't either or, it's both. And if you're interested in learning more about what Elevate Consulting can do for you, visit their website at consultelevate.com, which I will link in the show notes below. And if you're interested in learning more about what Consult Elevate can do, if you enjoyed this conversation with Hannah and Amy, please let me know. They are amazing women who are doing amazing things in their personal and professional lives with their company, Elevate Consulting. They offer full service firm. If you enjoyed the conversation with Hannah and Amy today, please let me know. They are amazing women doing amazing things in their personal and professional lives. And at Elevate Consulting, they offer full service. And if you want to learn more about them, Elevate Consulting is a full-service firm serving nonprofits, collaborative community groups, foundations, and municipalities in designing and implementing smart, efficient strategies and programs that improve their community. They're there to help you and your organization. They are there to help you and your organization live out your mission and drive equitable social change in the world. So visit them at consultelevate.com. I'll also link that in the show notes below. I'll also link that in the show notes below.
