- Speaker #0
it really does kind of start feeling as though like is it some is it me is it like and I think some people could again lean into that space of not feeling like here enough or any any of those negative feelings I really didn't want to go there and I think that's why I tried to get ahead of it because I think again that was one example you know I have many friendships which I'm very grateful for I have a beautiful community now but a lot of them will go through seasons and I think having that experience as uncomfortable as it kind of was and it wasn't fun, I think it was a good trial run to getting an idea of like, okay, this is gonna probably happen in some relationships.
- Speaker #1
Welcome to It's Both, the podcast where we explore the messy, beautiful contradictions of being human. I'm your host, Nikki P. And each week I sit down with real people navigating life's complexities. Those moments when life isn't just one thing, it's so many. And this week I'm talking to my friend, Lucretia, as we unpack the quiet complexities of friendships that grow apart, the grief of connections as they shift or fade, the awkwardness of reaching out, and the deep importance of being intentional when life gets busy. We talk about what it means to hold multiple truths, to celebrate a friend's new season, while also feeling the ache of loss or distance. to honor boundaries while leaving the door open for reconnection. This is a conversation about emotional intelligence, communication, and the vulnerable, sometimes messy reality of loving people well across time and across change. So let's jump in. Hi, Lucretia. It's so good to have you. I am very excited to talk today because I think friendships are just so interesting and unique as adults. I think there are some amazing things that we get from our friends. And also it's like really hard to, I feel like, maintain and keep friendships up. So I'm very excited to talk to you today about this. But before we jump in, so I would love it if you could take a minute and just tell everybody just briefly, like a little bit about who Lucretia is.
- Speaker #0
new phase of feeling, you know, in different decades, but still feeling like nothing much has changed. I also am a homeowner, which I always kind of say, like, I'm a first-time homeowner in my family, at least my household that I grew up in. So that's been a pretty exciting kind of just navigating being a homeowner and doing something new that hasn't really happened in our family, or at least in a long time. So yeah, when it comes to like, who am I, I'm kind of just navigating it. Currently, I am doing Addictions Counseling. I have an LMSW, a Licensed Master's Social Work. And for me, I feel like I'm kind of goofy and kind of quirky. You know, when we work together, I think one of my first intros with the team was, you know, I feel like people don't think I'm like, they don't really think I'm funny initially, but I think I'm like really funny. Like, I think you're very funny. You know, I mean, maybe I wouldn't get on anyone's stage and like do stand up. But I think I can have like a very fun, outgoing personality. But I also like to kind of have my time alone and recharge, you know? Yeah, I think that's what most of my friends and family would say is that I'm funny. I really care about working with people and kind of advocating for people's rights. And yeah, I don't know. I think it's a lot I'm still navigating through naturally. But I think that's how I would describe myself, if that makes sense.
- Speaker #1
It does. It makes total sense. And yeah, for the record, I think you are hilarious. And you always have, you know, such a big smile on your face and just bring so much, you know, joy and laughter wherever you go. So I think that's accurate. Okay, so friendships, talk to me about, you know, what's the tension or that bothness around friendships? And I think specifically as we get into it, talk about that and also kind of the trajectory of as we are now, you're now in your 30s, right? Like losing friendships, how friendships change. So yeah, talk to me about that.
- Speaker #0
I've always been someone who has valued friendships. I feel like I grew up in a very family oriented space, which also included like family friends. Even from when I was younger, I always remember family friends when we did events, birthdays. hookouts. I grew up in the country, so it was a small, small space, but everybody knew everybody. And no matter if you were blood related or not, like everyone felt like family. I think as I got older, just seeing how my family interacted with everyone. It also made me really value like, oh, I want friendships like that. I want to be able to show up for my friends who like when they have kids, when they have really big moments like graduation, weddings, promotions. So I think having that mindset growing up, I've always tried to be very intentional with my friendships. And I've had long friendships. Two of my good friends I've known since kindergarten and first grade. Wow. And those deepened when we got into high school and became like best friend friendships. But I think... For me, when I started getting older, you kind of see when seasons for other people in myself were to change, sometimes there's shifts in those relationships. And I think something we don't think about a lot, but it's there is that though when those friendships shift, change, or even break down, they can be really hurtful. And it's not because it's even intentional. I think we can reconcile the idea of like, okay, I know this person's busy. I don't think it's personal. but it can still feel a little weird for us and I think even navigating it can be weird because usually it's not something you do unless you're just really super mature which I do know a few people who we've had conversations but yeah I think it can just be a very tricky thing to navigate because it's not like a breakup with like a romantic partner it's not something you have to always address but it can either start fading or you have to maybe start talking about it. So I think for me, I kind of first noticed it when I got into college. My tip when I was going to undergrad was I had my friends from high school. I still have good friends that we stayed in contact regularly. And I was like, I'm not going in to make friends. I'm going to get a degree and that is it. I'm going to be out. I want to go back home. So by the time we got to graduation, I'd actually made a lot of good friends that I would think I was. surprised about. Just again, I had my core group, but it was really great to be able to open up and welcome others into that group. And that caught me off guard. So when graduation came and, you know, it's time for us all to go back to our homes, a lot of people lived in different states, different spaces. And even if they lived in Tennessee, we were still hours away from each other. And it took intentionality to like really keep. any of those friendships. And that was kind of, again, not super challenging, but I think it, again, was a shift in like, okay, just because I'm not hearing from this person anymore doesn't mean we're not friends. It might just be, again, getting adjusted to the new life that we're in, a new season. And I was also in grad school, so I stayed behind another two years when some of my friends had moved on.
- Speaker #1
Yeah. Was that the first time that you ever really experienced that? drifting or like separation from a friend because you had been in the same like area of like that part of the country right your whole like growing up right right yeah yeah
- Speaker #0
I would say definitely I felt it when I got into grad school because I so I did the social work program so most of the folks who did their undergrad you know the professors told us like sophomore year like you're really gonna meet your master's and I was like oh man like I really wasn't banking on that but okay So most of us who were in undergrad together, we all went to grad school, but they did the one-year track and I had to do the two-year track because I had to work. I couldn't go one year without working because I was living in an apartment on campus and stuff like that. So that first year wasn't too bad. But when they all graduated the first year, that second year, I was like, I felt really isolated and kind of alone. I did have a good friend who I was roommates with, but it was so different. You know, you go from being around so many people, having good friendships, having a routine, and everyone leaving and kind of feeling left behind. So I remember one of my good friends at the time that I did make my second year in grad school. We were really close. I felt like we connected well. She was so nice, so wonderful, very engaging. I think we did our internship together. And when we finally got to graduation, she went back to her home state. I was still in kind of in Jackson, but was moving back home to the Nashville area. And we were talking regularly still. And I was like, oh, yeah, like, this is great. Like we had done a lot of things together that last year in grad school and become really close. And then when we were talking, it was kind of like, things slowly started to fade because she was able to start making community in her own hometown, which is something we had talked about.
- Speaker #1
Yeah.
- Speaker #0
You know, because. she was feeling isolated and wanting to make friends. And I was like, oh, no, like, you should try to get out. Like, you know, it's definitely encouraging going and, like, connecting. What I didn't know was going and connecting would maybe cut that off a little bit and take a little bit more from our relationship. And when that started happening, I started feeling really weird about it. Because I was like, Latresha, like... what's wrong with you? Like, I don't really think I'm a person that really struggles with jealousy or even like a lot of insecurities too much. I have, you know, we all have our insecurities, but that's not something I regularly stay in. You know, if I feel insecure about something, usually I'm like, okay, like what's going on? Like, let me see if I can figure it out. Because I don't, it's not uncomfortable. No one enjoys feeling insecure or like jealous or any kind of feelings like that. But when that started happening with her, it was very noticeable. And I was like, okay, like, what is going on here? Like, am I happy for her that she's making new friends? Absolutely. You know, we talked about it. I've been praying for that for her. But what is kind of that issue for me? And why is it causing that tension? And what I could really at that time, I think it was also the idea that I was also feeling alone. Whereas if I think if I would have had more of a community at that time, I don't know if it would have stuck out as Bye. But I think having everyone already moved away, some connections feeling already a little like strained and people have gone, that one kind of going away a little bit, it really, I think, sent me for a shock. So there's nothing that ever caused an issue between us because I never want to cause issues in any friendship. There was never a problem. We didn't ever talk about it. It's just one of those things that as time went on, as she started getting into her community. And also I eventually found mine too. Again, that relationship went from talking every day, texting every day to maybe a couple of times a month, then maybe a couple of times every other month and then just messages on Instagram or reactions or likes. And yeah, that was, that was a process. Like I said, it wasn't something that caused the issue in the friendship. It's just one of those things started fading and I just had to really realize. I want to be okay with this because I really don't think it's personal. I think it's just, we're in different seasons and we're in a different space and that's okay. But it took a while to kind of realize that.
- Speaker #1
Yeah. I was going to say, how long did that take you? Because I feel like with some friends now, I'm still, it's one of those things I like logically, I know it, but it doesn't change how my body is feeling about it. I'm still like, oh, I get that initial reaction of being hurt or a little sad. Also very happy for them. But yeah, for you, how long did that take to kind of get to that point?
- Speaker #0
Yeah, I don't know the exact time. I would say probably maybe around a year and a half to two years. Honestly,
- Speaker #1
I feel a bit better.
- Speaker #0
It was not like a couple months. It definitely was one of those things that lingered like every time you see someone post or you know, you're like, okay, like, who's that you're hanging out with? You know?
- Speaker #1
Yeah.
- Speaker #0
But it definitely took probably a year and a half. two years to, and when I say to get through it, to like kind of learn to accept it. And I think it kind of took that long because also I gained perspective again. At that time I was moving, I went to school in Jackson, Tennessee. So I had came back home, finally and secured a job. I was stressed about getting a job because I wanted to hurry up and get back home to my family because I miss them. And just to kind of start my life, you know, we've been in school this entire time just similar to her and to for other people, I was ready to get going with my life too. So as she was living her life and I started finally getting my stuff together and living mine, I think I kind of realized like, oh look, Arisha, you're gonna go through this too and be in her shoes and maybe have friends who feel similar to how you felt. And I'm sure I have. And I think getting that perspective of, oh, like This isn't personal. We were great friends. And we still like, and it's hard because I think I've heard this conversation probably on like some of my reality TV shows that I love to watch of like, you know, what's an acquaintance, a friend, and, you know, how do you, how do you title that now? Are we friends? Are we cordial? Are we just cool? Like, what do you call that? And I think maybe I got a little rapid. wrapped up in like trying to figure out, well, what do I call this instead of just taking it for what it is, which is we were in a space at one point that we had really great memories. You know, those memories don't change because our friendship has shifted. Those memories are still beautiful. They still have purpose, but it won't look like that again, most likely. And I have to be okay with that because I'm also going through that. When I started going through that, I think it helped me to give a different perspective to the situation that I hadn't had before, which is you're going to go through different seasons too, LaCresha. There's going to be certain people who maybe have an expectation for what they want from you and a friendship that. maybe you can't give in this season or whatever season that you're in. And is it personal? No, I hope not. Like, I don't want it to be personal. I know she didn't want it to be personal. We were just moving on and living our lives. But I had never, I don't think I'd navigated like that before.
- Speaker #1
Yeah. Well, it's so hard because even if you both are mature and aware and you're communicative about it, it's still a loss. So like, you're still grieving, Whether it ended with a wonderfully, beautifully fizzled out, or if it ended badly, like, it's still the loss of a connection and a relationship that was, let's say you have the rings, right, a friendship, and like, that was an inner circle that then moved further and further out. And that's hard. I mean, that's the loss of a relationship. Yeah.
- Speaker #0
And I think you're so right about that, because it really does kind of start feeling as though like, is it some, is it me? Is it like, And I think some people could, again, lean into that space that I've not. feeling like you're enough or any any of those negative feelings i really didn't want to go there and i think that's why i tried to get ahead of it because i think again that was one example you know i have many friendships which i'm very grateful for i have a beautiful community now but a lot of them will go through seasons and i think having that experience as uncomfortable as it kind of was and wasn't fun i think it was a good trial run to getting an idea like okay this is gonna probably happen in some relationships not all because i have relationships with some friends who um you know they live in different states we stay connected we send those voice memos like 10 minutes hey angela you know like shout out angela yes we have been super no matter this season that we've been in and same with a lot of my good friends from back home especially one of them we've always stayed really close we went in and out of seasons of being extremely close but we've always been close. And I think I really wanted to be careful because I didn't want to start letting my mind build up personal things. Like I said, I really didn't feel like it was personal. And I don't, I think it can be really, I don't want to say dangerous. That feels, it feels pretty strong of a word, but I think you're right. It can be a little dangerous to get in the mindset of thinking this is a personal thing. And can it be sometimes? Sure. But I feel like, I don't know. Mom. From my experience, when things have been personal, usually based on a situation that's happened and those are different. This didn't feel like that. And I think if you're not careful, you can start harboring resentment and building a story and a narrative around something that you kind of have to take a step back and be like, do I believe that to truly be true? And I think if I didn't do that with that situation. When my other friends started going through seasons and changes, having kids, getting married, moving, it would put me in a pretty negative space of maybe questioning like, well, what are friendships? You know, how do you navigate this? What is maybe being a little guarded and being like, well, there's no point in getting close to someone if they're just, you know, like, that's why I think trying to be mindful of that grief and trying to allow it to be and give it space and acknowledge it, it's valid. but also what is truth here? You know, what's true? And it's hard because maybe sometimes you don't know what that truth is. It just hurts.
- Speaker #1
Oh my gosh. Yeah. Well, it's just so impressive that like in your twenties, cause this is something I feel like people of all ages struggle with. And so the fact that like in your twenties, you were able to be aware of it, you know, start becoming aware of it, articulate it and try to get ahead of it because, you know, I know for myself, it's really hard to not go where you were saying. Like I tend to be one of those people that is more insecure about myself and how I show up. And so for me, yeah, I'm like, how do I do more of that? Because it is really easy, at least for me, to be in a relationship with someone or start to build it, want it to be something more, and then realizing, oh, wait, this person already has like a really solid group of friends. I don't think we're going to get there. you know what I mean? And then not taking it personally as if it's like, oh, I'm not a good enough person. They don't want to be close to me. It's like, well, no, they just, they already have their group and they're, they're good. You know, they don't, they don't need more.
- Speaker #0
But it's real though. And I think again, it's, I mean, and I don't know, would you say it's like expectations sometimes even just around friendships of kind of, well, you want more, but sometimes it's like, well, again, I've been on the other side. Sometimes I still feel like I'm in this space of. I'm in a season where I feel like I don't have a lot of capacity for much. And, you know, I'm plugged into a really great church. There's people there who reached out and wanted to connect. And I feel like I've kind of been like, okay, later. Yeah, I didn't say it like that. But again, giving yourself that grace and giving others that grace, because there will be seasons maybe where that's reversed. But again, it's still valid and how you feel, you know, because you do want to have a good community, you do want to be accepted. I think we all do. And it's hard when someone's putting up, not their hand or a wall, but kind of them being like, okay, like, we can be friends that maybe they're not reaching out as much as you'd want them to reach out. Or maybe they're not inviting you to something that you see they're inviting other people to. You know, it's a weird and hard thing to navigate without sometimes taking it personal. But I also don't think I want to be fair here. I think that's human in us. And I don't know, I turn out to fault before taking it personal because it is hurtful, you know, even if it's not intended, like you said. Yeah,
- Speaker #1
yeah. It's so hard. It really is because unlike. romantic relationships where I think there is this expectation as there should be to communicate these feelings the same is not held for friendships no which is odd it's so odd and it's almost like well I don't want to and I know this is true for myself I'm like well I don't want to fight I don't want to like hurt somebody's feelings but then I don't express that I'm feeling a certain way. And then it just creates this like... gap or barrier. And then it's like a self-fulfilling prophecy. You don't talk about it, but then there's something there and then you grow apart. But I think it's so hard. I mean, one of the things, at least as you're talking, that I'm thinking about that's so hard is we all go through both sides of it, right? I'm thinking about the seasons where a few years ago, for example, I had a significant amount of really close friends and close working relationships with people at work and all these. I don't know, all these different types of friendships. I didn't want more. Like I was like, I'm good. I've got my group. So I would be really kind, but I'm not going to like initiate conversations, you know, like parties. I'm going to just like stick with my people. And then what's funny is then there was a shift in the last year and it's like a significant amount of people left and moved and then work things changed. And I'm like, oh, wait, all of a sudden this big group that was really in my inner circle is now. scooting to the outskirts because of life, because people are moving, because phase of life, all these things. Now I'm like, oh, well, crap. Now I'm in the position of reaching out to people and trying to be like super proactive about building relationships, but getting that back where people are like, well, yes, but like not now. Or like I got to reschedule and they reschedule over and over. And then I'm like, okay, I keep reaching out. Nobody wants to get together. okay, I'm going to just like move on because I don't want to take this personally because it's hard.
- Speaker #0
Yeah, I feel like that's how I feel like, I don't want to say the circle of life, but kind of like the circle of friendships can go. And I think more so with friendships that are not like super solid or like your best friends, you know, definitely with those other friendships, it feels like you kind of go through those cycles and it's just like, oh, what is going on? Yeah, it's an interesting dynamic for sure, but it isn't something that we communicate at all. I feel like usually it definitely fades. I had a good friend, we went to church together. She recently went to grad school. And she was the first friend we had ever talked about the shift that was going to be coming up in our friendship. And she's super young. She's like 24, 25. And, you know, I think I was like 29. It just like this happened like a year ago. And she was the first person in a friendship that you know, we knew a shift was about to happen. And we talked about it. And one I was like, you are so mature for your age. Like I respect you. I love you. I really appreciate you. But we had kind of talked about she's going to be going off to grad school and she like, you know, if I don't stay in contact as much, please know it's one nothing you've done. It's not personal. I'm going to be building up my, you know, trying to build a community. I'm also trying to get through grad school.
- Speaker #1
Yeah.
- Speaker #0
But I will stay in contact as much as I can reasonably. And in contact might be, hey, how are you? Or hey, hope you're doing well. Hey, miss you. You know, and we talked about that. And I think because she also had experiences and friendships where it wasn't talked about, it got awkward. And then there was a fracture that turned into a complete split of a friendship from it. And she just wanted to go ahead and get ahead of it. And with me, I was just like, wow, like this was, it felt so easy, you know? And even now, like we text every now and then. We'll check in every now and then. And we have that engagement on Instagram. But I think it was just the acknowledgement of saying like, hey, I still care about you. I still want to be in your life. When I come in town, I still want to see you. I think just having that acknowledgement, I don't worry as much because it was similar just to the other friendship or my grad school experience. It's the same type of interaction right now. However, there was communication and understanding that our foundation hasn't changed. It's just our seasons have.
- Speaker #1
And that it's nothing about you. Yeah,
- Speaker #0
it's nothing about me.
- Speaker #1
Isn't that amazing that like one sentence, reaching out with one sentence, and I'm sure you guys talked about it more, but like, it does blow my mind because I'm like, why don't we do this more? Yeah. You know, and I'm sure do you get equally as like nervous and anxious of like, you think you're like, should I say something? And then you go through the whole mind game of like, oh, no, that's being too weird. Like, I don't want to like, I'm not going to say something. And you're like, just say the thing.
- Speaker #0
Yeah, yeah. that's exactly it yeah that's exactly it feels weird it feels like oh maybe i'm being dramatic yeah maybe i'm making this into a bigger issue than it needs to be um and i hate that i think when maybe this is a both too because sometimes i go back and forth of you know you see on social media nowadays that you know people post things like oh a real friendship doesn't you don't need to like talk about you know certain things or like we can go months without talking and not be a big feel. I feel like I've seen posts and people post stuff like that, which can be true. I think it can for some relationships. But again, why is that? It's because you have a foundation of knowing you're secure in that relationship. For some people, they don't have that. So that doesn't fit always the idea of being like, oh, well, a real friend doesn't like me to explain everything. Yeah. But, you know, again, with some friendships, maybe, but I don't know if that's really true for most, honestly, because I think we do need clarity.
- Speaker #1
No, I think you're right. I'm even sitting here thinking about mine and I'm like, I do have the people I can do that with. But the people I can do that with, it's about three or four. And I've known them for more than 10 years.
- Speaker #0
Exactly.
- Speaker #1
Like two of them I grew up with. And none of us live in the same state. And so we can't. maintain that like super deep. I mean, it is super deep and we've called each other out of the blue after months about really intense things, but it's not maintaining that and talking every day. Like that's too difficult, especially when you're not in the same city, you can't get together for coffee or whatever, hang out at night. So I think, yeah, to your point, it's very few relationships can do that. And it's like, you have to have invested X amount of time. I mean, that's my hypothesis, right? You have to have invested X amount of time, probably more in person at the beginning of a relationship for it to then be able to maintain after.
- Speaker #0
I agree. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's, that's the difference, you know, because any of my friendships that I do still have, like my best friend, Samantha, I've known her since kindergarten, our friendship became more solid in high school, we went to college together. And we did undergrad, that space of undergrad together. I stayed back for grad school for two years. She came back home. In that space, our friendship shifted a little bit. It wasn't gone, but she made other friends and she built her community pretty fast where I was like feeling isolated and like, I just want to be done with grad school. I'm ready to go. But even in that space of us not maybe being as close as we were in other seasons, when I moved back home, we were able to pick it back up. up slowly but surely and you know I see her every other Monday they go for a walk in my neighborhood I love that yeah we walk with her little one and it's a great way for one us to get exercise to um just to be able to have community and talk and stay like up to date with each other about how our lives are going and you know in what way we can support each other that's a friendship that even when we have that space of okay maybe it doesn't feel as though we're as close as we are we're stable. We had, you know, we could come back, you know, and even with other friendships that I had growing up from high school or just any, I guess, elementary time, even though we might not talk, I can pick up, you know, we could go months without talking literally with not even a text and pick up the phone, call each other and it not be an issue personally, you know, it's not an issue, but yeah, with other friendships that doesn't have that time that you're speaking of. It's definitely more of like, okay, like, I don't know. I don't know where to go from this. And I don't know if it goes too much longer. where we pick up, where we go from there. Again, I would be more than welcome, welcome a conversation or talk or anything like that, but it would definitely take more.
- Speaker #1
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I was just thinking too, because I had two of my oldest friends on a couple of episodes ago and we were talking about long distance relationships more so and just childhood friendships and things like that. But one of the things we talked about is we all have kids and like how on the on this side of having kids It's just one of those natural shifts in your friend group because you become so, you're almost in the survival mode for so many first years of like at the birth of a child. And then if you have three like me, it's like nonstop. But it just naturally restricts your time, your ability to go out and do things, especially more so with those who don't have kids. Because the things I'm going to want to do as a tired mom is probably not the things that like somebody who is without kids might want to do. So I'm wondering for you on the reverse side of that, have you been on the receiving side of that or had a friendship that you saw that shift happening and you were like, oh, that's not as much like a match anymore. You know what I mean? Yeah.
- Speaker #0
Yeah. That's a really good question. I would say for most of my friends, I'm trying to think, my mind always goes back. to like my core friendships from like growing up because they're the ones who have kids right now my friends from college some of them just started having kids but it's a little different but for the most part yes and no yes there was a shift but again i think because we have that foundation it wasn't a shift that destroyed or like a friendship like one of my friends i always knew that when they got into a relationship had a family their family was always going to be first and before anything. And when I say that, obviously, like your family should,
- Speaker #1
yeah,
- Speaker #0
obviously take priority. Please don't put your kids off for me. You know, like, I'm not asking that. But just meaning, whereas one of my friends, it doesn't matter that she's been married, that she has a child. She is always there. She is always intentional and reaching out. Whereas one of my other friends, I don't know, I think, again, I think we knew each other so long. I knew this about them that for them their family would always be first and I would have to be okay with that and I think I accepted that so early on of just knowing how they are that it's not a problem like do I miss them and being able to connect more yeah you know there's definitely been times I'm like hey like you want to get together you want to do something and it might just be like well like I'll let you know or we'll get together when we can or you know but again it's hurt in the moment it is kind of like oh like I miss you I'm reaching out I want to see you but on the other hand I'm like well I know that's where they're at right now and I think as their kids get older and things maybe shift I think it could come back around because we have that foundation but I think that's definitely one area of where I've say like them having kids and having a husband and being in a different space than me I think it definitely has shifted a little bit there but with my other friendships honestly, I feel like it got stronger, which is odd to say, but yeah,
- Speaker #1
you know, amazing.
- Speaker #0
Yeah. And I think also, you know, I, I personally, I don't want kids, you know, hopefully I hope to be married one day, but also I'm like, you know, if it happens, it happens. Dating's rough out here, y'all. But I think again, growing up and seeing, you know, when you're a friend of someone, just because someone's in a different season than you, that doesn't mean anything bad. If anything, I'm celebrating that because I know for my friends, they've always wanted to be moms. You know, they've always wanted to like have a family. So to see them going in this season, it's kind of like watching someone like win a race. So it's just like, go, go, go. Like, I want to be there cheering the loudest for you. I want to be there. Let me wash a bottle. You know, like I can't, I can do much, but I want to be there to help you in this season appropriately as much as I can. So I think because I engage with it in that way, it also doesn't put us in a strain. Again, when you have a foundation on those relationships with other folks who are new or who have kids, though it has shifted, and I expected it to because we don't have that foundation. And I get it, you know, but yeah, it can. It can be interesting.
- Speaker #1
If you're like me and dinner time creates so much anxiety and stress and you have very little time, especially if you have kids from the time you get home until bedtime, let me suggest Hungry Root. Hungry Root has been a game changer for our family. Every week I go in and I pick out our meals for the following week. I get to select four servings, which is huge. A lot of delivery services don't allow for multiple servings like that, but it's enough to feed our family. They are. are really affordable, but significantly cheaper than what you would get with some of the other subscriptions out there that tend to be very pricey and fancier, I would say, than Hungry Root. But it also offers a lot of healthy options. And so you can pick different dietary restrictions. I usually always select anti-inflammatory for the family, which is like a lot of fish, a lot of veggies, a lot of chicken. But you can also select vegan, vegetarian, a protein. gluten-free, all these different variations that you can choose from. That's affordable, it's healthy, and almost every single meal is less than 30 minutes to make. And oftentimes, if it's more than 30 minutes, it's just the bake time that takes a little bit longer. The prep time on almost all of these meals is very minimal that even somebody like me, who has self-proclaimed that I do not like to cook because it creates anxiety and stress in me, I can even make these meals. It's been easy on my husband, who's the one that cooks because I prepare ahead of time, like what the recipes are going to be. I pick them on hungry route and I choose things that are easy for his preference that I know him and the kids and myself are going to like. And it's made our dinnertime routine so much easier in a way that none of the other subscriptions have. And it's yet still affordable as if we were going to the grocery store and getting our groceries. So if you want to try it out, I highly recommend it, regardless of if it's Just you, just you and a partner or you and kids. It works for any size family, any size household. And if you're interested, you can click the link below and get $50 off your first box. Yeah. And have you ever had a situation, you might have said this, but a situation where a friendship ended or drifted or whatever, and it did end kind of poorly or not ideal, or that was a bit more difficult to say goodbye to? I don't think so.
- Speaker #0
I feel like it would stick out if it was really bad. I don't think so. None of them have ended poorly, honestly. It's just been awkward. Yeah, it's just been that it's that awkward fade. Yeah, I don't I wouldn't say I've went through any significantly hard endings of friendship because again, it's just like hasn't ended. Or do we just not talk? Maybe? I don't I don't know.
- Speaker #1
Yeah, that's true.
- Speaker #0
It's that weird dynamic, but none of them has ended badly. It's just we either just don't talk or we're in this space of like, okay, I know the last time I reached out to you, maybe you didn't respond. And now I feel awkward because I'm like, do I reach out again? Or do I just like not acknowledge it, but we're pushing a year now. Is it awkward to reach back out? I don't, I don't, again, I don't know, but also know like maybe you just got married or you just had kids. And in my head, I'm like, well, I don't want to bother you even though I miss you. But I think that's more so where like most of those friendships are. It's just maybe in an awkward space. I've been very fortunate. to not have blowout.
- Speaker #1
Yeah. And it is funny because like, as you're saying that I'm thinking back to some friendships and do you do the thing? Cause this is what I do when I'm in that moment. I'm sitting there, have my phone out. I'm like looking at their name, almost like it's dating again, you know? And I'm looking at their name and I'm like, okay, yeah, it's been X amount of months. They've canceled on me or rescheduled, or they just didn't respond. Do I reach out again? And if I do, does it look like I'm Like, what's the word for thirsty, but with a friend? Do you know what I mean? I'm like, do I seem super needy? Because that's not, I just love them. And I want them to know that I love them. But also, if I'm coming in too hot, like, you know, so then there's this mental game back and forth. And anyway, that's what takes up my capacity around it.
- Speaker #0
No, it's real, because I've definitely been there. There's definitely been some friends. It's just like, yeah, I've reached out multiple times. We've had. We call them phone dates. I do that with most of my friends. We, especially if we don't live near each other, you know, we'll have phone dates scheduled with one. Most people, I have it once a month, which is still, that's pretty solid. But after it's been missed several times, again, it's easy to like, let like a little bit of resentment or like, what's going on? Like, do you not prioritize this friendship? It's easy to let some of that slip in. But I've tried, I'm not been perfect at it. tried my best again to just be like, okay, I know from the last time we talked, they had a lot going on. You know, they had a lot going on. I'm not wanting to say I'm not there to really be a physical support for them. So if they're finding that support in person where they are, Maybe that's what they're needing. You know, I feel like I can be a good friend over the phone or through text. I do my best to be intentional. But sometimes it's nothing like having someone to be there to give you a hug. And maybe there's friendships there that are able to do that, that are just taking priority for what they have capacity for right now. Maybe their window of tolerance, even though it's love there, every time that they're rescheduling, maybe it's just that they're just not in a capacity or place to deal. But again, it's hard. and I kind of me and my aunt were just talking about it this weekend while they were here. I've kind of been this season of what you give is what I will give. And trying not to, again, let it be a negative thing. It's just like, okay, if I can see that you're putting in consistency and effort, especially after I feel like I've been trying, then I will pick back up on doing that. But if it's kind of getting to this space of like, okay, we're pulling back a little bit. It's not that connection isn't there. okay, then I'm going to start pulling back a little bit. Not to be mean, not to be like, well, anything you can do, I can do better. It's really just to be able to keep my own space and happy place in peace so that I'm not continuously being rejected in a sense. Even though it's not rejection, but it kind of is, I have to do that. But I think that's healthy. It's just a natural, what you give is what I will give. And maybe in some seasons I can get more, maybe you can get more, but when it's consistent, that's what I'm speaking to. When it's a consistent fading, then I'm going to have to start pulling back for my own space, you know?
- Speaker #1
Yeah. I mean, it sounds like healthy boundaries, right? Like, you know, I think that's what comes to mind for me as you're saying that is you're putting up these healthy boundaries that are saying, listen, I'm not going to allow myself to get caught up in the whirlwind that is my brain and emotions. And like, because I am overthinking something and putting in X amount of effort more than you when it's not being reciprocated. And again, not in a negative way, but just going, Hey, I'm going to be responsive. I'm going to be like, I can be proactive X amount of times, but then if I've been proactive, you know, four times and it's not being reciprocated. All right. I'm going to be responsive. I'm not going to give more. Like, that's my answer.
- Speaker #0
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that is healthy. I mean, again, it can be hard. It can be, there's still pain there, but it's still, it's both, you know, you feel like you mourn what could have been. But again, I think I choose to kind of focus on like, wow, we had really good days, you know, and I'm really grateful for that. I love that.
- Speaker #1
And that's so mature because so many people don't do that.
- Speaker #0
It's hard, but yeah. And again, I don't, I don't want to make people feel bad for not maybe being in that space. Again, I think as you, if you can really take a step back out of maybe how you feel in the moment and also kind of, I know there's been times when I've been that friend who I've probably not lived up to an expectation of a friendship. I would hate to think that I've intentionally hurt someone because I haven't. That wasn't, that was never my intention. But I think going through those seasons myself, it gave me a perspective to give people a little grace. Like I don't, think people are genuinely out here at least the people i know i don't know can't speak for everybody else but i don't think the friendships that i have made when they were solid from what i knew about them they would never have done anything to be intentionally hurtful towards me and that's the truth i try to find and i encourage anyone going through seasons like this to try to remember what is the truth of when you knew them you know is it again it doesn't mean it can't be hurtful can still be hurtful, can still be disappointing. But the truth from what I knew of that person in our friendship at its salt, like at its best, was they were really intentional. They were a great friend. They really cared about me. They showed up for me. They took me to the ER. You know, they were there when I was liking someone and freaking out. They were there in really good moments. And that's the truth of that. We're just in different seasons. We're in different spaces. would it maybe come back around? Possibly. You know, like my friend Angela that I gave a shout out to earlier, she lives in Oregon right now. She's been traveling I think the last two years. We met when we worked at a job when I got right out of grad school. It was a job in Nashville. And then we, you know, we had a good foundation. Her birthday's one day after mine. We connected over that. We had good conversations. But then when she moved, that friendship was something that it's like, okay, like, it's like, it wasn't something I was sad about, down about or anything negative. It was just like, okay, when we talk, we talk. But we have gotten even closer over this last year of just because she's an intentional friend, even though she lives a states away.
- Speaker #1
Yeah.
- Speaker #0
We regularly talk in a week. And again, the voice messages. But that also, it went through a season. We didn't have a foundation. I met her in 2019, 2020. We didn't have a foundation to know like, oh, this friendship is going to come back around. But it did. So again, it's just like you never know what's there. But it's kind of like, I guess it's the question of do you leave the door open for things? If it hasn't been, you know, completely fractured. The door's always open for anyone. you know, because it's not fractured significantly, you know, if that makes sense.
- Speaker #1
It does make sense. And I think that's a great example. Because I've had so many other like, countless other friendships that have faded. And yeah, we're kind of in that space to have just being maybe on social media or reaching out every so often. And that's fine. Like, we're in different phases, we still love each other. But I think leaving the door open, because I have had people circle back. And I think that's one of the coolest experiences. Like having somebody that you knew, I'm just thinking back to childhood. And then you were separated for a while, you move away. And then for whatever reason, you reconnect. And it's like,
- Speaker #0
ooh,
- Speaker #1
this is really cool. Like I knew you then and I get to know you now and you're different, but you're also the same. I don't know. It's like it's a cool experience.
- Speaker #0
I agree. Do you feel like it's also something a bit based off of when you're friends with someone? people like in elementary, middle school, high school, college, even at work, it's more of like, you're free. I'm not gonna say you're free, just because you're around each other all the time. Because, you know, there's people I've been around that I'm like, I'm not really their friend. But kind of like that friendship out of, we're in the same space, it's easier to maintain when it does come back around when it's not as easy to maintain. To me, it does mean more,
- Speaker #1
you know? I think so. I think, yeah, you like hit it on the head. Because honestly, I feel like most people, if you are open. you are going to build close relationships with whoever you are in close proximity to for a lot of time. Not always. And don't force it and don't be anxious if you're hearing this and you're like, I'm around people and I can't stand them. I have been at workplaces where I don't, I'm around them all the time and I'm like, but that's the outlier generally. I feel like, at least, and let me also clarify, corporate world might be very different than non-profit. So let me just say that because I know a lot of people that work in corporate spaces and let me just say our values may not align. I'll just say that. But I think in the world that we're in, like right therapy, social work, nonprofit, generally people in those spaces aren't there for the money. They're there because of something around the desire to be there. And so I think that's a huge caveat too, because in this idea of being open and proximity and time with people, I do think most of us are going to grow close to whoever we are around. And so if you, I think to your question, if you establish that at the beginning, it is so much easier for it to come back around because, yeah, you built this foundation that just can't be replaced. Like the time and the proximity, you can't replace those two things together. So I think that is why a lot of childhood friendships last forever. Even if you grow into two vastly different people with vastly different beliefs, it's like family. It's that same thing. You grew up with family. And even if your family is a bit. crazy or dysfunctional, like you find a way to maintain it even with those things in place. But I love that you said like, hey, I'm leaving the door open because I think that's being aware of that and being intentional is so important.
- Speaker #0
I think it's important to leave the door open for some people. Again, don't do it if it's been something that's been like hurtful or like toxic or not helpful for you. But I don't know. I would want the door. I would want someone to leave the door open for me. You know, because especially in seasons where maybe I'm just not my best, like this kind of feels like a season. I'm in a space where I'm working towards a lot that feels super close, but yet feels so far, just like career wise. And maybe I'm not able to be the friend that I can, you know, in this season. I wouldn't want anyone holding that against me because I'm just going through a hard season, you know. And I think other people have that too. Like we're human. No one's perfect. you know most of us aren't taught how to navigate relationships you know you're kind of just gotta go like high school's usually our first go-round and that's a little scary you know no we're just not taught how to communicate and maybe the importance of why that's important to communicate even friendships and and I will say I have known a friend who they did talk about their friendship ending and it did not go well you know so I'm really yeah yeah yeah um I'll try not to share their story because that's for them to share.
- Speaker #1
Yeah.
- Speaker #0
But all that to say, maybe you do try to talk about it and maybe it does go haywire. You know, I'm not saying it'll go perfect, but it just, I'm not saying talking about it will maybe lead to perfect resolutions because in that situation it didn't. But I think still they had clarity. I think still it wasn't left up in the air, just building up on hurt. At least, you know, like, okay, yeah, this friendship is done. They want it to kind of be ending. I did not want it to be ending, but we're here and it is ending. And at least I'm not having to chase after them and be hurt anymore. Again, it still sucks, but at least you have somewhat of closure from it.
- Speaker #1
Yeah. I agree because I think the anxiety and what we create in our head about whatever situation, like nine times out of 10 is, in my experience, is way worse than the thing.
- Speaker #0
Yeah.
- Speaker #1
And even when I have had situations where I've confronted it and it's just like I'm thinking of my ex-husband, like when that relationship had to come to an end, obviously the buildup of years of like, am I going to do this? You know? was incredibly painful and the actual blow up of it was horrific. However, there was also instant like relief. Even though it was a horrific experience, it was like also in the same exact moment, relief. And so I'm thinking about that with a friendship of like, yes, maybe you communicate it and it doesn't go well, but you'll know to your point, you will have clarity. You will at least be then just processing the hurt as opposed to going through. in your mind, the 10 possible scenarios, and then all the possible hurts from all the scenarios. It's just like so much brain power, I think, that then exhausts you as opposed to just knowing.
- Speaker #0
And you were saying that it was making me think of like, I don't know, relieving like pressure, you know? And I was like, it made me take it like to be like, take a deep breath. Yeah, you're right, Nicole. Like, yeah, like that's, I think you're spot on about that because it comes with a lot, especially when you're already dealing with maybe family or like, you know other life dynamics it is so it's a little bit It's a big stressor. And again, friendships aren't something I think are talked about enough. And like friendship hurt or friendship break us. Or they are just, to me, they're just as impactful as like breaking up in a romantic relationship or like a shift in that romantic relationship. They mean a lot to us. You have to have community in some sense. And I don't know. I think this can be a really big breakdown that I just don't feel like people talk about enough.
- Speaker #1
100% I agree. I don't think we talk about it enough. And I don't think we like validate each other enough about it. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Like I recently had one of my closest friends who's like, they're moving. And she's like my person here, like my closest person. And I was talking to, I probably talked to everybody about it just because like, I'm a mess. I'm like, oh, this person is leaving. But I had like one or two people that were like, oh, that sucks. Like, oh, well. And I'm like. Okay, can we like rein it in and validate a little bit here? Like, this is a big deal. And I don't know, I feel like to your point, we validate that when it's a romantic relationship. It can be as hurtful, if not more sometimes, because there isn't this like understanding in our society about the importance of these other relationships. I don't understand that.
- Speaker #0
Yeah, I don't know either. Part of me wants to be like, well, maybe it's because. maybe they had a lot going on that day. They weren't a good listener. But the other piece of me is like, well, I think it's still this issue of maybe, I don't want to say people don't, I don't want to say people don't know how to be a friend. I don't want to say that. That feels really rude.
- Speaker #1
You're kind of right. I mean,
- Speaker #0
yeah, kind of, again, I grew up being very family and friends oriented, you know, like want to be there for my friend's kid's birthday. I want to be there to celebrate them. I want to always be a part of those important moments, but I don't think other people like value that kind of stuff as much and it was making me think of which just might be a little off topic but even the idea of like godparents or anything like that i don't know like when someone has been taught like any of my friends have talked about that before like you know something were to happen to them like who would take their kids like i think that stuff very serious i don't know i think some people they do cod parents is like oh well like you're just their godparent meaning like it's a title for me growing up like a godparent like that was like a serious thing. You know, it wasn't just like, well, you're a godparent. It's just a title. It was a you and maybe again, it's an expectation. Maybe it's a little unfair. I don't know. I guess it depends on where you fall with it. But you were there for birthdays. You were there like if the parents couldn't be there for something. You were there to like be there. And I just sometimes feel as though I don't know if that's still always there for everyone that the significance of what being a friend or like godparent, like... I don't know those titles. They just grew up meaning a lot to me. So if someone brings something up to me like, Oh, like, You're the, you're the, like, you're even like the friend auntie. I take that serious. You know, I'm just like, I am here. I'm ready. Whatever you need. And maybe that's just my, my personality and maybe just doing too much. But for me, I have that growing up. So I know what it means and like the value of a community. And especially when your friends start having kids, I think that's really important because I want them to be able to remember their auntie Cree being there. for those moments. So I don't know, maybe I'm getting off on a tangent a little bit. No,
- Speaker #1
I don't think so.
- Speaker #0
Those are the things that I think about friendship and the things that stand out to me about the importance of it. It's not just like having a friend or having someone to talk to. It's, to me, you carry these people throughout your life and your memories, you know, it just, it means a lot to me.
- Speaker #1
It should. I think, I don't think you're being too much. I think that should be the baseline. I mean, you know, not that we should do that for everyone. But you should, when you have identified those people in your life, go all in. Like, that's where I'm at life. I'm like, I want my people and I want to like live near them and I want to see them all the time and I want community. And yeah. Well, kind of as we wrap up, when you think about this, one thing I always like to ask folks is, you know, this is complex, like this idea of friendships and losing friendships and how those change. It's hard. It's complex. I don't think many of us were taught it. And there's so many conflicting feelings and thoughts around it. Is it something when you were in the midst of it, when you first started experiencing this, was this something you were aware of, like the bothness or the tension? Or was that something you kind of came to realize later after lots of processing?
- Speaker #0
I want to say it was a later acknowledgement. I think in the moment I was kind of panicking and freaking. Again, I don't really. I don't know if I'd ever really experienced those feelings before in that way. So it was uncomfortable more than anything. It was uncomfortable and maybe a little bit denial of being like, oh, no, I don't feel that way. I don't feel that way. Oh, it's fine. You know, but I think as I really started acknowledging like, no, like you actually feel that way. And that's OK. Like, it's OK. But it took time to get to the space of acknowledging it. Again, no one ever talks about those kind of things. You know, I was in my 20s when, you know. experiencing that. And I don't think I'd ever talked to a friend about it prior. It comes up a lot now. But yeah, it was definitely something that was a later realization.
- Speaker #1
Yeah. And I ask that because I think as I've been doing this podcast, I'm like, I think for most of us, it comes later. However, the moments where I have started to shift my brain into this less black and white thinking, the moments where I can notice it as I'm experiencing it. I've noticed that it helps. Right. And so I'm always curious for others if it was a later or an in the moment experience and how that affected their processing of it. And I think for most of us, it is after the fact. Once we've processed it, we realize, oh, here were actually like all the layers of thoughts and feelings and emotions that were happening at the same time.
- Speaker #0
Yeah. Yeah. No, I agree. One, it feels like it was later, but it also feels like it was. early because it was so young, you know?
- Speaker #1
Yeah, you were.
- Speaker #0
You know, it was definitely not in the moment, but I'm grateful that even though it took me, you know, maybe a year or two to kind of get in the space of acknowledging it, I'm glad it happened during that time and not still battling, again, not shaming anyone, but you're still battling it. We're human. But I think it helps me, like you say, now when situations come up, I can be more aware of it. And I feel it makes me feel better, you know, about the situation. And so I do think it helps when you can kind of be in the moment with it and kind of be aware while it's happening too.
- Speaker #1
Yeah. Well, thank you for just coming and being vulnerable and sharing your experience. I think it's very relatable and I think it's definitely going to help others because we all have friendships. Like this is something that I think applies to everyone. So just thank you for sharing all that. And before we go. One thing I like to ask everybody is tell me something that you do or something about you that is ridiculous or relatable. So maybe it's completely ridiculous. Maybe it's a little bit relatable, but anything that pops up for you.
- Speaker #0
It feels like I'm thinking of things because I'm like, there's always something my friends and my family are always saying. I do that a little bit ridiculous. But the one that stands out the most would be at night when I'm like going to bed, I lost my bedroom door and I guess I didn't I didn't realize like other people didn't do it um I thought it was a normal thing like I am the person who I will close you know I'll turn down the lights and downstairs and I'll make sure and I'll like double check the lock for my door like probably twice and I'll shake it. I'll make sure I can see like the deadbolt across it. I'll do that for both my front and back door and then I'll go upstairs and then I'll go and like shut my door and I will lock that sucker. And I will even sometimes, I don't know, maybe it's just anxiety, but sometimes I'll even maybe put something in front of my door. Really?
- Speaker #1
Yeah. Yeah.
- Speaker #0
So you'll lock your bedroom door and put something in front of your bedroom door?
- Speaker #1
Sometimes, not every time. I think if I have like, I don't know, maybe if I'm just extra jittery that night, I will like, my clothes hamper is kind of like there. So like sometimes I'll just like move it over just a little bit without thinking, you know, I'm like, let me just move it over. I don't know why. I don't remember when I, I guess I started doing it when I started living alone.
- Speaker #0
That makes sense.
- Speaker #1
I don't know if I did. I don't know if I locked my door when I had roommates. I actually thought about thinking about it. I think it's just living alone. But oh my gosh, you know, I just had a realization. I think I do it because when I did have a roommate one time, I moved back to Nashville. They had left the door unlocked. And the wind, when I say they, I guess we all left. I just went to bed first. So to me, I'm like, the person who goes to bed last should make sure all the doors are locked. But that night, the wind blew the door open. And I woke up and I heard, Metro Police, is there anybody in the house? And I was like, you know, I was just like, oh, like, I was like, what's going on? You know, you're half asleep.
- Speaker #0
Yeah.
- Speaker #1
I woke up to that and I kept hearing that shouting in the house. And I, you know, had my bonnet on just like a t-shirt. And I was like, oh, I opened, I was like, cracked the door. I said, hello. And they said, Metro Police, come out with like your hands up or something. And I was just like,
- Speaker #0
God.
- Speaker #1
It was horrifying, Nicole. And I, like, stuck my hands out the door last night first because I'm not trying to get shot. But, you know, seriously, I was just, I stuck my hand out the door and I was just, like, came out. It was pitch black. It was, like, 2 o'clock or 3 o'clock in the morning. The flashlight was on me. I want to really say, like, they probably had, I really feel like they had their guns drawn. Yeah, they had their flashlight on me so I couldn't really see. So they could see me, but I was just, like. you know, coming out with my, I can laugh about it now. I was not laughing then. I was coming out with my hands up to going out and they were like, is there anybody in here? And I said, my roommate's downstairs. And they go and get them. They were like, they were talking to me. Mind you, I had de-escalated the situation because they knew like, here I am sitting in my bonnet and just a t-shirt. Obviously there's nothing going on. But bottom line, they got a call from a neighbor because the neighbor saw our door was open and did not know someone had broken into our home.
- Speaker #0
So yeah,
- Speaker #1
I don't ever remember locking my bedroom door until that happened. It was a very traumatizing experience in 2020, 2021. You know, like it was, it was horrifying. You know, it was very scary. So I think that's probably why I do it.
- Speaker #0
Well, that's absolutely why you I mean, yeah, that's 100% relatable. Like that's terrifying.
- Speaker #1
Yeah, yeah, it was really scary.
- Speaker #0
I don't even know what to say other than like, I'm sorry. And I don't know how I would ever stop doing that.
- Speaker #1
Yeah, I don't.
- Speaker #0
I get scared anytime I'm alone or like, it's just me and the kids. And then I'm on a high alert of like, oh, it's just me. I have to like, you know, kind of be on watch. But if that had ever happened to me, I don't know. That would be really hard to like. Yeah. How do you relax at the end of the night?
- Speaker #1
I'd honestly nights are hard and I hate to admit that because I'm 30 years old and I'm so thankful to have my own home and I don't want roommates you know I've had yeah I didn't have a bad experience but for the most part I've had really good experience with roommates but I love living alone the nights are the hardest when I first moved in my home last year it took me probably a good one to two months to even be able to like fall asleep comfortably um and even now like some nights. I sit and think I'm like, why isn't that? Why are nights so hard for me? And I really think that has a big play in that because it is like it can be a lot. The best sleep I get is when I have a friend spend the night or like families here. And I can like sleep and not think about it. And I that's the best sleep I get when I have company.
- Speaker #0
Oh, I'm so sorry.
- Speaker #1
It's okay. I could be a whole nother podcast.
- Speaker #0
I was gonna say that is its own like that is traumatizing.
- Speaker #1
Yeah, yeah, it was wild.
- Speaker #0
Gosh. Thank you for sharing and being so vulnerable and real. And just, I'm so impressed by you. And I think that you have so much to share that I think we can all learn from. So thank you.
- Speaker #1
Thank you, Nicole. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
- Speaker #2
If this show is meaningful to you and resonates with you, it would mean so much to me. If you would take a moment to follow the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts, you can do that by hitting the little plus sign on the main show page or hitting follow or subscribe. If you could also leave a rating or review and share it with somebody who might need it, it would mean the world to me. This really is the most impactful thing that you can do for the podcast. And that's how this community grows, through real people, real stories, and honest conversations passed from one person to another. So thank you again for listening, and remember. It's okay to feel all the things because so many times in life, it isn't either or. It's both.
