Transcription

• Speaker #0

  you know, I'm not a procrastinator. I'm not lazy. I have executive dysfunction and, you know, getting help with that instead of shaming myself.

• Speaker #1

  Welcome to NeuroDivergent Spot. I'm your host, Sam Marion. My pronouns are he, him, and I am a multiply neurodivergent therapist, speaker, and creator. My work focuses on all things neurodiversity, but my particular interests are in autism, ADHD, learning differences and learning disabilities. My guest today is Kim Kroll. Kim, please introduce yourself to the listeners.

• Speaker #0

  Hi, everyone. My name is Kim Kroll. My pronouns are she, her. I am a stand-up comedian in Los Angeles.

• Speaker #1

  Before we continue, I've got a quick disclaimer. This podcast is for information purposes only and should not be seen as a replacement for therapy, healthcare, or legal advice. Kim, I'm really excited that you're here with me today, and we're just going to jump right in with the questions. Okay. So here, number one, what has your journey with neurodivergence looked like?

• Speaker #0

  Oh man. Well, I'm a woman in her forties. I was diagnosed right after I turned 40. I think I'm 42, right after I turned 40. And that's unfortunately like a really common thing for women because when you're little girls, as you know, our hyperactivity is more in our brains than it is outside. So we're like quiet. And, and... I mean, I'm a talker, so I was never quiet. I was definitely the kid that had her name on the board all the time because I couldn't stop talking, which is like, I was actually proud of it. But a lot of my life was unmanageable up until that point. And I, you know, a lot of shame around it, you know, your apartment's a mess, you're late, you're all this stuff. And I thought it was like, I was just broken. I had a... trauma, traumatic childhood. I went to, I'm in therapy. I'm in 12 steps. I have a life coach. I have all that stuff. And I was just like, oh, maybe I just, this is just it. I'm broken. And then I met a woman, wow, that was longer than, I met a woman. I was, I'm good friends with a woman who is ADHD. And she started just asking me questions and started being like, I think you have ADHD. I'm like, no, I don't really have, you know, I don't really like fidget. I don't really needed any of that stuff. And she was like, I don't know, I would get tested. And it changed my life. And I'm lucky it didn't take me as long. I know a lot of the process to get diagnosed takes longer, but it didn't take me as long. I found a therapist pretty quickly. She was not a therapist I would see in the world, but she was like, I just had to be like stepping stone to a psychiatrist so I can actually get help. And once I got help, like the aha moment was me going, oh, my brain just doesn't make dopamine. Got it. Like it doesn't make as much. Oh, okay. I'm not broken. My brain just is a little bit of a imbalance.

• Speaker #1

  So that aha moment, how long, I'm curious, was that aha moment of things falling into place and clicking actually of like, oh, this explains the previous four decades.

• Speaker #0

  Oh gosh. I think like when you reflect back, it feels like it was one moment, but it wasn't. It was like, you know, multiple. oh, why? Like, I'm time blind. That's why, you know, when I set out to do one thing, six hours passes and I'm like, oh no, you know, I just don't, I'm really bad at time. I don't. So that, there was a lot of grief. There was a lot of grief. And I know that's really common. Thinking now, like what could have been. I know, like I read this funny thing the other day that was like ADHD is one of the, one of the few brain things that makes you. literally smarter and faster than everyone while your brain also tells you you're dumber and not good at anything. And it's, you know, so having that knowledge, I feel like was a bummer, you know, but also a tool to help me move forward. And so I think it was, it wasn't a bunch of, it wasn't one big eureka moment, but it was definitely like little like, oh, okay. And being easier on myself. After that, you know, I'm not a procrastinator. I'm not lazy. I have executive dysfunction and, you know, getting help with that instead of shaming myself.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, I think that the way you're describing it is so common of the way people process back through that. It's so much of what the drive for me creating this podcast is not necessarily to focus so much on explaining mental health topics as much as the lived experience of people. that I think is just so relatable for others in the world. And honestly, that's some of the feedback that I've gotten about the podcast is people sharing these stories, these moments of like, oh, I'm not broken. My brain just works differently. I'm not a procrastinator. I lose track of time. I don't put it off on purpose. All those little things that... you know, such a big part of shame, right? And we can work through that in those ways. So, and it's honestly, it's a lot of my clinical practice is walking through that. Yeah.

• Speaker #0

  It's wild because there's so many people that have it. And, you know, now there are people like, oh, all of a sudden people are, everyone's autistic and ADHD. And it's like, well, it's not all of a sudden. It's just now where, like, I read a thing that was like, If we just now discovered there were 14 planets very close to Earth, like the moon, or like we shared a moon with 14 other planets besides the planet, you know what I mean? But like, they didn't just appear, we discovered them. And it's like ADHD and autism didn't just like people aren't suddenly becoming autistic or ADHD. It's always been there. We're just now, one, the stigma's out of it. Two, there's no more research. There's so many. factors to it but i think the shame is a big one a bit the grief too was big for me i yeah just you know when you're 40 and 40 is not i don't think 40 is old at all i but i don't i don't think it's old at all society like as a woman society is like oh you peaked at 25 and now i realize like oh because women get more powerful as they get older and that's a patriarchy that's trying to be like you Push down the power because, you know, like make them think that they're old and washed up after 25. And it's but, you know, you look back on lost dreams or things you really wanted to do that you aren't really available to a 40 year old woman the way they would have been if I was diagnosed and got help at 20.

• Speaker #1

  Sure.

• Speaker #0

  I'm working through that grief of, you know, feeling the feelings and then walking through them and letting them go.

• Speaker #1

  And we're going to move on, but I'm going to add to that before I do move on, though, is I wonder where there's places to try to sort out of like, all right, what actually is no longer accessible now that being past 25? Or what may, it just has to look different than if I had pursued this in my early 20s. And I say that sort of transparently, part of what I wrestle with in terms of like a life stage, what is accessible, what's not in terms of what I may want to pursue. And what may just look different or what may be actually it was maybe have been attainable when I was 25. And now maybe it'll open up again at 50. But there's a window in here that it's not. So that's also an interesting way of looking at things. Because you reference, you know, the patriarch and all these things that tell us how life is supposed to be. And I don't have any intention of living my life the way the world says I'm supposed to.

• Speaker #0

  We made it up. We made it all up. Like all of this is made up. So it's not serious. You know what I mean?

• Speaker #1

  I spent too many years trying to live my life the way I thought I was supposed to. This isn't an embarrassing example, but I, so I didn't get any tattoos until a few years ago. And I would have told people, yeah, I wanted a tattoo, but I can't get one anywhere on my body that would show up if I was on the golf course at a corporate event. I'm not a corporate world. I was, and I don't, I haven't played golf in a while. for a decade uh i guess one of those like wait that that's that's not me but that's me me trying to fit the expectations that i thought i i needed to follow and how many things are there for us to navigate like that um but i gotta keep going here i can stick just this conversation this is amazing but question number two here comedy often walks a fine line between humor and raw truth how do you balance making people laugh while also advocating for mental health and self-love.

• Speaker #0

  I really found that balance when I created my podcast. Years ago, I have a podcast called Crawl Space. And years ago, I have a family member who grew up undiagnosed bipolar. And I grew up in the middle of the country in the 90s. So mental health was definitely not something anybody talked about or looked at. And so each of us, each of us like cousins had certain labels and I was the pretty dumb one, right? I'm not dumb. I know that. But that was my label. And then we had the athlete we had and the girl who's bipolar, she was the quote, bitch. And a little girl, by the way, like, and then she got diagnosed and her whole life changed because she was able to. And I wanted to start a podcast years ago that was like bringing. humor into mental health, right? Like talking about mental health, taking out the stigma and laughing about it. Not laughing like, ha ha ha, you're depressed, but you know, like laughing about it and making it human because that's what it is. And I put it off and put it off as we do. And then the world ended and I had lots of time on my hands. And so I started Crawl Space. And My humor is... My comedy is raunchy and I had a really effed up childhood. So I try to... I talk about that. But on my podcast, I talk about my journey of self-love and that's how I find the balance. I still struggle with it in terms of self-deprecating humor is really popular. And I realized a few years ago that like... Like. everybody in my body is listening you know like all the inner kids or family are listening so when i'm up there being like i'm a dumb slut which was never my thing but you know what i when i'm up there saying stuff like that it's like oh my i i internalize that even though adult kim knows that's a joke so i'm been struggling with that and having more of i do silly things but i'm still a person a lovable human so

• Speaker #1

  Kim, I appreciate your vulnerability in that. And, you know, I don't know you well. We connected on social media. And I tried to do a little bit of research on Gessner. And so I checked your podcast. And I've become a fan because for me, as I listen, it feels very authentic. And it feels very connected to real life. And, yes, comedy. But it feels like just a lot of transparency. And it's not all. just funny moments. It's also just like, I think, real life in an authentic way. I definitely hear that balance come through your podcast. So I appreciate that. That's what you referenced because I see it.

• Speaker #0

  I appreciate that. Thank you. That's my, if you get into some of the episodes, there's some crying episodes where I remember the first time I cried. I used to record in my closet in the dark before I started recording. Like, I had this old mic that I had. And I like just went in my closet in the dark and the like, I think like episode six, I start, I start crying and get really vulnerable. And then that's when I realized like, oh, you can, it doesn't just have to be silly college stories. It can be. So I really appreciate that. Cause that's what I'm trying to build with that community in that show.

• Speaker #1

  Before we started recording, I referenced, um, right. And our conversation, I referenced back to the episode that came out just before this recording. And that I was listening to and sort of what I felt connected to from the episode. So, yeah, it feels very, to me, very relatable.

• Speaker #0

  So thank you. Oh, that makes me that makes my day. Thank you.

• Speaker #1

  Oh, well, you're welcome. All right. Let's keep going, though. Question number three. You have been active in protesting fascism and speaking out about politics. How do you see comedy as a tool for activism? And what role do you think comedians play in shaping public discourse?

• Speaker #0

  That is... Such a funny question now, because, you know, when I was growing up, comedians were on the right side of history. They spoke the truth. And, you know, you could like you had the like George Carlin and the Bill Hicks and even for a hot minute, Joe Rogan before he sort of went off the wild side. But I look at Bill Burr now. like Bill Burr is a personal like hero of mine like I I met him once and he I he was like stop saying shit like that you're like we're peers and I was like oh yeah Bill Burr called me his peer but which also negates what he said but I love that he speaks out and it and it's not he's not speaking out against anything that's like wild he's like people should be able to eat you know but he also said something other he was being interviewed by somebody uh a reporter And they were like, what do you think about the tariffs? And he goes, are you out of your mind? Do you want to ask me about the Middle East now? I'm not going to do your job and I'm not going to do clickbait for you. No. And he was like, I'm a dancing clown. That's what I do. Do your job. And so I think there's a fine line. I think I've lost a lot of fans along the way in the last five years because I am so open and loud about, I think, you know, everybody should have rights. in. I laugh because it's so yeah duh um but I was raised very republican and my dad used to roast me when I was growing like when I was getting older that I was such a bleeding heart like he was like mad that I cared about people so I grew up in that contrast but I think I think when and I have a small platform I don't have you know thousands and thousands of followers but I think when you do get a platform, I do think it's important to speak up. And I do think you can do it in a way that brings people in and listen instead of alienate. And I think right now we're in a weird divide in comedy where there's the podcast bros that are, that were at the inauguration and are very, you know, that are... disappointingly on the wrong side of stuff. But then you've got people, like I have a friend, Steve Hofstetter is a good example. He often talks to comics about, he's like, I was worried about speaking out against what I don't believe in, thinking I would lose fans. And he's like, I just hit 300,000 followers. So, and when I think it was Tennessee, they outlawed, I don't remember the law, but it was basically against trans people. They couldn't dress like the other gender. And his first show there, he wore a dress on stage. I was like, what are you going to do, Tennessee? You're going to arrest me? And so I think there is a fine line, but I do think people will find you. And for me, it's important to speak out. At the end of this life, I don't want to be like, I'm so glad I kept all my fans and never said a word about all of the atrocities that are happening. So I think... Does that answer the question? That's very... Yeah.

• Speaker #1

  You know, I was really curious how you would answer. I have for many years enjoyed watching stand-up comedy because I have felt, and I firmly believe this, that the comedians are some of, if not the best, or keenest observers of sort of society and culture. And so often, it seems like what stand-up comedians are doing, are they're just reflecting back culture. And they're talking about it. And sometimes it's funny because it's so absurd. But they're sort of pointing out what you noticed without having words for maybe. Which is not unlike what I do in therapy too, right? It's just I don't get a whole room full of people who want to pay me at one time the way that a comedian does. But I think it's such a powerful stance because people do show up to be entertained. And I think I see comedians drawing connections. in ways that few other people are doing in society. And if you're going to talk about the mainstream media, you're choosing who you're listening to, right? So I don't tune into CNN and get surprised by the insight shared there. Or, you know, you sort of expect if you turn on Fox News, whatever, you know what to expect. Whereas a comedian is, it just seems like, so if you're reflecting back what I'm already seeing with just drawing that. making the connections that I'm already sort of feeling, but in a way it just feels different. So I don't know.

• Speaker #0

  It's our brains. It's funny. Our brains just work differently. Like we see, like I'll be with like normies, like regular non, like civilians, non-comedians, and I'll see something and I'll make like a comment about it. And everyone on the, something to me that is so, and I can't think of an example now, but something to me that's so obvious and how is nobody finding this hilarious? And then I say it and everyone's like, oh yeah, I didn't even see that. And it's so we we do we just are able to we see it differently. And it's I will say I I am fully shocked every time I watch Fox News to be like CNN. I know their narrative Fox News. That's a wild if I turn it I haven't watched it much in my life, but I've turned it on a few times and it's like, what are they doing? What are we talking about here? It's it's I will say Fox News is terrifying and horrible, but very, very.

• Speaker #1

  objectively a little funny um i'll open the app to see a headline sometimes and it's sort of it is interesting and surprising of the takes and the what is the headline and what else be happening in the world and it just doesn't show up there and yeah it's it's it's interesting um all right next question here you've had a really truly a dynamic career from modeling to reality TV to stand-up comedy and podcasting. Looking back, what's been the most unexpected lesson you have learned along the way?

• Speaker #0

  Oh, can I have two?

• Speaker #1

  Sure.

• Speaker #0

  Okay. One, it's not linear. I think when you grow up, and it's also not one thing. Like when I moved here, I wanted to be a famous actress, right? That was my like, that is, and it's you, one, it's not linear. One, there's not like a, I made it. you know, there's multiple, oh, wow, I feel like I've made it or I've made it. But I made it is such a weird, you think that there's going to be a big moment where it's like, oh, I'm good now. And no, it's just, it's a lot of little jobs that you never thought you would do. It's a lot of side jobs. It's a lot of weird jobs. And I always tell my friends in the industry that are like ashamed that they still have like side hustles or side, they're not like making the money at the thing that they want to do. Theo Huxtable worked at Trader Joe's like 10 years ago. LA is wild. Like it's expensive. It's, you know, it's, so it's just not linear and there's never going to be a moment of, I made it. There's going to be massive milestones and also just enjoy that, you know, enjoy the journey. Every time I start to get stressed out, I'm like, all right, this is part of it. This is, you know, just enjoy. And that's easier said than done. And I think the other one, I understand, I have enough BS in my head that tells me I'm not good enough. And the more success I've gotten, there's a lot of people that have left my life, whether they've left on their own or I've had to put them out. of the, I call it the venue. I have the cheap seats. I have the, I have VIP and then I have just the arena. And some people I kick out of the arena. Some people go to the cheap seats, but I, I've, I didn't think that the more successful I got, there would be more people, like people saying meaner and meaner shit. And I know that has nothing to do with me. I know that's their own projections. I know all that, but I, the, along the way I've been like, I only, I have enough in my brain that tells me I'm doing bad. Like I'm not good enough. I'm not funny enough. I'm not smart enough. I'll never make it. I don't need anybody in my corner also echoing that. So once you do that, you have to go. Like that's, those are the rules in my brain.

• Speaker #1

  Do you have any tips or anything that you do to try to quiet that noise inside your own brain that's saying you're not good enough? Like how do you handle that?

• Speaker #0

  I have a couple of things. There's a thing that I do. I do routines every day. I call them letters to the universe, but they are also morning pages, journaling, but I just call it letters to the universe where I just sit down as soon as I wake up, I drink a liter of water and then I drink my coffee while I meditate. And then I write for anywhere from three to sometimes it's one page, sometimes it's 15 pages and I just get it all out and I don't judge what it is, right? It's just like, even if it's like, oh my God, that bill is due and I don't have enough money for that bill. Oh, I'm going to get money here. Okay. Okay. Like, I don't know what to talk about. You know what I mean? Like I just, cause it's so loud in here, in my brain. There's, once I started taking ADHD medication, I didn't realize I had 400 voices just going on all at the same time. Now there's like 12 and it is. And... So I also do something called, I wrote down, I got this from a friend, a mentor a few years ago. I have a happy list. And you write down on a piece of paper, like 10 to 20 things that make you happy. And they can be anything from, I like having dates and tea in the afternoon sun. Like I love it when I'm planting my plants. Like even if they're coloring and a coloring book is one of mine, right? So anytime I feel down. I just go to that list and pick one. And over the years, the interesting thing is, is it's actually become a habit. Like it's like, oh, I'm feeling bad. I'll do this. And then take a walk. And then sometimes, and this is a new one that I am learning. Sometimes you do just need to like lay down, watch a dumb TV show and disassociate. Sometimes you do need to give your brain that and have no shame. I mean, and in moderation, not like. 12 hours of TV, which used to be my thing before I was diagnosed. But it's okay to just sit and do literally nothing. And self-talk, it's not one thing. It's like 400 things I have to do in order to battle. I have a lot of demons, man. And I do a lot to... Now we're kind of friends, and they're not demons. They're like parts of myself that were wounded.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, I appreciate you sharing those things. I love the idea of the happy list there. I feel like I talk to people a lot about being intentional about rest, right? You can choose, you can be intentional to go sit down and put your feet up with a glass of water if you need to hydrate or whatever, you know, and enjoy TV or movie or what, you know, and that be a choice you made because you needed it versus. Oh, I had these things to do today and I sat on the couch and I streamed something and then we're upset with ourselves. But we got to be intentional to rest. It feels for a lot of people that those are in conflict, but it's not. And that gets missed so often.

• Speaker #0

  We also live in a society like our humans. Society in the last like 200 years has changed quite a bit. and our our our brains haven't really updated to that right that's right we were not meant to be in a fat like like to just like hustle for our basic needs and you know our our life you know 200 years ago we had real community and now it's like we move away from our parents we and so just remembering like our brains were not built for this onslaught of terrifying news daily like all just be intentional being like I can and I'm guilty of Definitely guilty of being like, I have 550 things to do. I'm going to lay down. But the trick is not to be mean to yourself about it because you're a human. Yeah,

• Speaker #1

  yeah. I heard a psychiatrist present at a major conference once, and they were talking about the way our brain was not wired for modern society. And they used an example that said, hey, anybody in the room ever buy the first year model of a brand new car when they first roll it out? And about five hands in the room kind of go up. And they're like, well, how well did that car work? Because the first year model doesn't. Because they haven't worked out any of the bugs yet. We have that brain. We got, you know, model number one, but it's not, we hadn't evolved around yet for society yet. And society is moving fast. And I love that imagery there. I'm going to ask you one more personal question real quick before we go. And then you talk about watching some dumb TV shows. Do you mind sharing with us, do you have any go-to sort of, we'll say silly, how about that, just light-hearted TV shows that if you just need to like sit down and know you're going to smile, what's your go-to right now?

• Speaker #0

  I mean, I don't have that. My current therapist is like, you sure that's what you want to do after we do EMDR? And I'm like, it comforts me. I love The Walking Dead. I love it. And I know it's, I mean, there are silly moments. I do, but I like the end of the world stuff where you just like to watch how, it's not necessarily the zombies or the gore. Like I might, none of that really bothers me. It's like watching humans come together and make the possible in the impossible happen. I also like, for silly, I've been watching Superstore again. That one is fun. Yeah, so for silly, if you're not like, I don't want to watch.

• Speaker #1

  blood guts and gore and like my favorite character die every week you psychopath superstore is good got it all right i appreciate sharing that um i already uh i think references but you know you mentioned your podcast of course that'll be in the show notes to link to that it's a great great great great podcast but how else can people find you if they're hearing you they want to you know learn more about you learn from you connect with you how can they do so uh i'm on all the social medias.

• Speaker #0

  I'm trying, I'm hoping one day we all just are over at Blue Sky. So definitely follow me on Blue Sky. But on everything, it's at K-Y-M-K-R-A-L. I have a website that I, if you, that's pretty updated. It's not updated, I'm lying. But I'm hoping to update for my upcoming shows. And I also have a book. So if you want to look into that, I, in the lockdowns, I wrote a book called Confessions of a Recovering Party Girl. and it's all about On the surface, it's like a bunch of dumb, drunk stories. But if you want to get deep, it's also about a woman who didn't love herself and then did all these things and then discovered self-love through it. So that's like funny. But then there's also like a message to it. So Kim Kroll, all at Kim Kroll, all across the board.

• Speaker #1

  Awesome. Kim, thanks so much for being here with me and sharing with the listeners. I really appreciate that.

• Speaker #0

  Thanks for having me.

• Speaker #1

  Oh, this has been amazing. I'm Sam Marion. This is Nerd Divergent Spot. If you enjoyed the show today, give it a like, subscribe. If you know anybody who you think could relate to hearing Kim share, please share this episode with them. And let's all connect and keep growing in this world. Thanks.