- Speaker #0
People respect the vulnerability. People respect the fact that you're human.
- Speaker #1
Hey guys, welcome to Nerd and Average Spot. Sam here. And real quick before we dive in, I just want to give you a few quick reflections. This is a really exciting interview with Sonia Janisse, where a few things just stood out to me. Sonia, her story is that she was diagnosed to age 51 and late. ADHD or any neurodivergent discovery can be just life-changing. It stood out to me, the idea of survival mode being hidden in plain sight. I wonder how many people will resonate with that, that idea. And simply, I love the idea that movement and music are powerful regulation tools that help us to reset. I do this for myself. And so anytime I hear someone else talking about things like that, it just, it's really affirming and exciting. And I hope that You get the same experience. So hope you enjoy this episode. Welcome to Nerdivergent Spot. I'm your host, Sam Marion. My pronouns are he, him, and I am a mostly nerdivergent therapist, speaker, and creator. My work focuses on all things nerdiversity, but my particular interests are in autism, ADHD, learning differences, and learning disabilities. Today's guest is Sonia Janisse. Sonia, please introduce yourself to the listeners.
- Speaker #0
Hello everybody and thank you so much for joining us. My pronouns are she, her and I am a holistic health coach. I've been in the health and wellness business for over 18 years. From fitness to nutrition to mindset, I've put everything together in a nice little bow so I can deliver the right content to the right people at the right time. At the end of the day, that is... really what matters. And, you know, I stand out because I am neurodivergent. I recently discovered that I am late discovery ADHD, which when we talk a little bit later, everything will still make sense. And it's not what you think it is. It's never what you think it is. So my hobbies include painting, hanging out with my family, dancing, taking my dog for a walk. passions. Personal development. I mean, I call myself an athletic geek. Personal development is certainly a passion of mine. Aquafit. It's weird, but I can definitely tell you what a tattoo looks like on an old person. And anything else I would like you guys to know would honestly be this episode. We're going to be keeping it real and honest and raw. So I am really grateful to be here. Thank you, Sam.
- Speaker #1
Before we continue, I've got a quick disclaimer. This podcast is for information purposes only and should not be seen as a replacement for therapy, healthcare, or legal advice. Awesome. I don't think it matters what tattoos look like when people age, right? Who cares? Well,
- Speaker #0
they look different because we're talking a tattoo on a shriveled, frail body. Walking with a cane, doing aqua fit. They look different.
- Speaker #1
Yeah, no, some of mine are going to. I've got the thinker tattooed on my arm, the statue. And the thinker is just going to age with me, I think. It's all just going to happen.
- Speaker #0
You know what? For a man, it might. But I'm talking about naked women in the change room. A visual, one I never expected in my life. It's not like when I was a five-year-old, I said I wanted to see. naked woman look like with tattoos in change room. It was one of those unexpected things.
- Speaker #1
It's a great mystery of life. Why people, older people in general, like to just hang out naked in locker rooms, but it seems to be a real thing.
- Speaker #0
So they just take their time getting ready. They just enjoy the moment and the conversation.
- Speaker #1
People never know where we're going to go in the, in this podcast. And so here we are, but let's dive in first question. I think, by the way, anybody who's listened just to this, if you had not identified as being neurodivergent, I think everybody would have been like, yeah, we know. We know. How did y'all end up here this quickly? But here we are. But question number one, Sonia, here we go. What has your journey with neurodivergence looked like?
- Speaker #0
You know what? I went to, okay, I'm going to put this in a word. My journey with neurodivergence looked invisible. It looked like I was not enough. It looked like I was always struggling. It looked like I was too squirreled to focus and pay attention and to actually be smart. So I took French immersion growing up. Half my days were English, half my days were French. So you can imagine somebody with undiagnosed ADHD way back in the 80s, 90s. This wasn't even a trend then. And I'm struggling to get the grades I got. So when it came to choosing my post-secondary, I was told by my guidance counselor that I wasn't smart enough. But was I really? Or was it they were correcting the wrong stuff, like my spelling and mixing up my letters? Because I would learn French, I's, E's, J's, G's, P's, D's, things that we always trip over. So if you took that under the equation, would that comment on such an influential person had to have happened?
- Speaker #1
You know... In my clinical practice, I have these conversations a lot to try to separate out for people. Intelligence from executive function challenges. You know, sort of that of like, all right, so you're not good at studying. Do you know how to study? Do you know, do you, oh, you, you know how to study if you can get yourself sitting still. Okay. Well, do you know how to do that? You know, so there's so many of these things are skills that are just not taught. In today's world, even not taught very well, where we understand learning differences more and more, and there's less expectation today. I'm not saying it's perfect, but less today around, you know, a person conforming and learning as everybody else does. Yet still, it's a big challenge. I see it all the time. So I'm sorry you had that experience.
- Speaker #0
It took me until this year. 51 years old before my 52nd birthday to realize, wait a minute, that comment was unnecessary. It came from somebody that didn't know better, but it hindered the rest of my life. And it took me all of this time to figure it out. And I connected the dots myself.
- Speaker #1
Got it.
- Speaker #0
That's a smart person to be able to go back, revisit and reconnect.
- Speaker #1
You know, my next question is going to talk about moving from survival mode to living with purpose and alignment. And I wonder how much of your path through school was survival mode. It's maybe I'm adding too much context into a question that I'm going to give you 60 seconds to answer. But you do talk about that moving from survival mode to living with purpose and alignment. What were some of the biggest shifts that help you make that transition?
- Speaker #0
I can tell you right now I am going through another transition. Okay. So yes, I totally agree. My education, being in survival mode without realizing it, realizing that college was too boring and that I really needed university to challenge me. I needed that life to challenge me. When I learned how to run, I know we talked off screen that your dad was a runner. All of a sudden I'm chasing hardware and I am finding my own purpose and I am in alignment. And then something happens and I can't do that anymore. So I have to reinvent myself and I have to let go. Honestly, I had to bring faith into this. I had to let go and my God, I started going back to church with my most decent journey that I'm still in. Yeah. I think we're in a survival mode a lot more than we realized. Cause like I said, it was this year alone when I realized.
- Speaker #1
That's a powerful thing to recognize. that you've been living in survival mode. It can be a startling thing.
- Speaker #0
Very much so. It could be. Yeah. When you can kind of not be in the work, but sit back from it and do something else, and you can put those pieces together and you can look back with love and understanding, it's okay. But if you force yourself in the heat of the moment without the right alignment, without the right vibration, in a scarcity mindset, it's not okay.
- Speaker #1
I'm going to keep going. I think the next question is going to tie right with where we are. As a mindset mentor and accountability coach, how do you help people break free from feeling stuck or overwhelmed in their daily lives?
- Speaker #0
Honestly, I help them believe in them. I believe in them until they can believe in themselves again. I help them find the different strategies and techniques and help them understand why it's never worked for them in the past. Here's what's different. You've got somebody that understands what it's like to squirrel. How do we come back from that squirrel? Is it okay to let that squirrel take over for half an hour? Whatever, because it's taking you somewhere. Do you have enough play and fun in your day? Where are you getting your dopamine? How are you releasing your energy? We are meant to release energy every day and to go to bed tired. 70% of us need to be doing that in order to get a good night's sleep and to feel good about themselves.
- Speaker #1
That's one area we can work on. How often do you have people, I don't know if pushback is the right word, but just the idea of like, well, you need fun in your life every day. How many people are like, but I'm too old for that. Or I don't have time. Or I could have come up with a million excuses that I could imagine you hear. But what do you say in those moments? I'm just going to assume it happens. How do you respond?
- Speaker #0
It does happen. It happens a lot, but if I get them after, if people join my Bloom Within or Flourish, I'm working on the name, my six-week course, we start each session with a song. I shut off the video. I turn on a song. I let it play. We dance it out. I do the same thing to close it off. It puts us in a container. Now we talk about what if you play one of your favorite songs in the morning while you're getting dressed? Can you do that? Can you play a song on your way to work that you like to sing to? Perfect. One song is going to lead to another, right? Now you're bringing that vibration up, that joy up, and you're doing it just for you. There are little ways. Music is one. Journaling is one. Using Oracle cards over a nice cup of coffee or tea and reflecting on the message. Setting yourself up for little achievements. is another one. I know I can't, for instance, I know I can't run again with the inflamed nerves in my neck. It's not going to be possible to do running events anymore. However, I can still work on doing a duathlon, which is swimming and cycling, right? There's always something.
- Speaker #1
How do you choose the songs?
- Speaker #0
I don't. I have a playlist called Power to Women and I close my eyes and hit.
- Speaker #1
Can you share examples of some of the songs that come up from that?
- Speaker #0
Yep, I can. Let's see what comes up here. I'm just literally going to open it. And this is a public playlist called Power to Women. I can give it to anybody if you need the link or want the link. And it is on. No, it's not on. So we've got I Will Survive. We have I'm Every Woman. We have Respect. Just Fine by Mary J. Blige. Born This Way by Lady Gaga. Juice by Lizio. Good as Hell. Oh, I'm Getting Shivers by Lizio. Dear Future Husband. Nine to Five by Dolby Parton. A Million Dreams by Pink. Walking on Sunshine. Stronger. Kelly Clarkson. Girls Just Wanna Have Fun by Cyndi Lauper. Uh, there's a bunch, there's one on here. Like there is, they're all inspiring female songs.
- Speaker #1
I have to, yeah, we can't keep going. I'm going to start singing and I really don't need to do that. Uh, but there's a good one though.
- Speaker #0
There's like wake up, wake up. I sure Shakira help.
- Speaker #1
I agree. No, I know all of these songs. Uh, I, I, I, I can, I know the words to most of those songs. Uh, I, I, I agree. So, um, no, I. I hope some people listening to what we'll go. You know what? I do need to listen to Shakira really loud, uh, for a little bit or, you know, um, you know, yeah. Lizzo good as hell. That's maybe listen to that after your next meeting with your boss or before. Um, I think music, I'm not a musician. Um, I can't really keep a beat or carry a tune or like, or like, or like I'm, I'm pretty tone deaf. I think, uh, But I think that like the energy from it, I am an energy person. I feel energy. I think it can be so, so big. And, um, for, for many years when I was in college, if I was going on a date, getting dressed for the date, I would, I would kind of finish up getting dressed. I would listen to the song still fly by big timers. Uh, there's a little bit of vulnerability from me on today's podcast. Uh, just sort of like setting the tone. I think it's huge. So I love it.
- Speaker #0
Why did it stop Sam?
- Speaker #1
Oh, I just bounced around to different music. Um, what I'm doing, why did it stop?
- Speaker #0
Like, did you stop listening to music when you got dressed?
- Speaker #1
Oh no. Just, um, I feel like sort of, sort of like on a daily basis. Oh, I have kids. If I, I'm like getting dressed, I'm trying to be quiet, not bother people. Uh, I'm the guest in a century stuff. I don't like headphones in when I'm like just getting going in the morning. Uh, the headphones that I listen to. when I'm out walking or jogging my neighborhood at five 30 in the morning are not the ones that I use other times of the day. Cause I just, uh, as am I getting, waking up and I have all kinds of quirks and nuances like that is what it is. Uh, I have found myself lately. Uh, I don't listen to much country music, but I've been doing some like furniture restoring lately. And, and I found myself really like enjoying listening to old country music while I'm doing some woodworking. uh It feels like it's just a different mood that I'm just, it's a slower pace and some of that stuff. I think music can be so big. I love it. Well,
- Speaker #0
and I know we shared that you do some of this with your kids, your daughters, specifically the woodworking piece. And my kids are older. I actually have a grandson. So my kids are in their twenties, my daughters. My word of advice being the daughter of a father as well. My dad would always sing in the workshop in the woodshed. My dad would always sing his songs. Now I got to know all of his songs. So when I go to Aquafit, they're playing all these music. Right. But I know the words and it makes me think of my moments with my dad. And I did the same thing with my kids. I remember very vulnerable here. My ex-husband walked into the kitchen and he's like, did you seriously just teach the girls the words to meatloaf? And I'm like, yeah, it's a song. Like I saw nothing more than a song, but the girls will never forget the words to Milo. And they're always going to think of their mom. So don't worry about how you sing. It's kind of like going to the beach in a bikini when you're a little bit overweight. The kid's not going to remember what you look like. They're going to remember the song, the music, the moments.
- Speaker #1
No, my kids, they get tired. I sing all the time. Uh, just cause I, just cause I can't keep, you know, I can't stay on, you know, on key doesn't mean I don't sing. Uh, but also I just, I said, we'll keep moving. Um, my kids would never let me go to the beach in a bikini. Are you kidding? Um, there was,
- Speaker #0
uh, sorry. If my dad went to the beach on a bikini. Oh my goodness gracious.
- Speaker #1
Um, that, yeah, even, even a joke about that would get. um, the biggest eye roll possible. So, um, but you know, I, I think this actually was, let's say it was really nice to the final question here. Uh, just we're talking about those different roles where you and I both have in life. Uh, it was so many roles, entrepreneur, mom, grandmother, you know, what does holistic wellness mean to you personally? And how do you keep it at the center of your life?
- Speaker #0
You know, the first word that comes to mind is congruency. I am the same person online as I am offline. I am the same person coaching as I am having tea or wine or going out with my girlfriends. I just have to refrain from coaching that. But my knowledge is still there. I am the same person in all of these different elements, which means I do have to respect the fact that I am wearing so many roles and I am too taking care of myself. that sometimes that means reframing. reframing from being in a public place too often because it's too much all of a sudden, right? So I would say congruency. It doesn't matter where I am, what I'm doing. I am the same person. I remember when I was looking for employment and I started a new job and three months in, they're like, well, when are you going to change who you are? I'm not changing who I am. Like, this is me. And this is something I've heard my whole life. So yeah.
- Speaker #1
You know, that makes a lot of sense to me. I think it's hard, right? It's really hard work to do that. As a clinically trained person, this was part of my master's level training was about sort of separating who we are and having this professional persona or something like that. And yeah, I've given up on that. I am pretty consistently who I am. In session, as a therapist, I just am. And I find that works. People like that.
- Speaker #0
People respect the vulnerability. People respect the fact that you're human. They have more to look up to. You have more to emulate by just being you.
- Speaker #1
Yeah, I think it can be scary for sure. Yeah. But I think it's powerful.
- Speaker #0
It's like popping. It's like blowing a balloon, right? We normally blow the balloon to where it's comfortable, right? Where we think it's possibly going to pop. And then we can normally get two or three. more breaths in depending what they look like before it pops. So when we expand past that comfort zone, it's amazing what happens. And you're doing this at such a fine age that your kids are going to be able to see a difference.
- Speaker #1
Um, yeah, I think so. So based on time, I want to sort of make sure I give space. Um, this is the point when frequently we will sort of go back. to any one of the topics we've touched on to see is there anywhere you'd like to go back and deep dive based off of sort of our conversation?
- Speaker #0
I actually want to flip the question to you.
- Speaker #1
Okay.
- Speaker #0
What would you like to hear more about?
- Speaker #1
You know, that puts me in the place of do we go deep or do we go fun? Why can't it be both? Well, we could make more fun banter around locker rooms.
- Speaker #0
Okay, let's go there. Let's go there for a minute. Let's talk about locker rooms for a minute. Because sure, I made fun of them and I poked fun at them, but I missed the summer. I took the break for the summer. When I came back, all of these lovely people were like, oh, you're back. Nice to see you. And when you're witnessing conversations from different generations, it's amazing what you can pick up. It's like going to a church as well and you're all kind of together for a brunch after or something like that. And you've got different conversations, but you have a teenager with a grandparent that's not theirs. Right. So when you can be like a sponge like that and take it all in. And the more diverse, the better for minds like ours, right? We need that. That is its own form of entertainment. What happens with our filing system is beyond me, but it goes somewhere and it comes out when we need it to come out. But that's just really cool information to come in when you surround yourself with the different ages and stages of life.
- Speaker #1
So in your coaching, how do you try to guide people towards having those experiences?
- Speaker #0
Well, we talked about setting the tone for the morning. Another thing is their superpower. What is their superpower? What is their super stance? And can you go into that superpower stance and just hold your breath and collect yourself? But I really have to meet the client where they're at. All of these changes, especially with mindset, like anybody that's neurodivergent, they learn differently. So... That's all it boils down to is they learn differently. And what we do know is what we talked about earlier is women, as they age, changes their dopamine and they crave more of it, which means they're at greater risk of being addicts if they don't find other ways. Now, addict isn't necessarily a bad thing. OK, addictive personality. And you're speaking to one right here. I was a runner. I was chasing hardware. I could train every single day. I was doing triathlons. I absolutely loved it. I wouldn't miss a day for my life because it kept, first of all, the runners high, right? But this is just one element. And especially for women, we don't necessarily know how to fill our time through the years of raising the children. We're busy. We're busy. We talked about many hats. So our dopamine hits. We don't know what they are. We've got to figure that out. And what I've witnessed, unfortunately, with a lot of women when they hit retirement is they're very sick. They haven't taken care of themselves and prioritize themselves to the point that now when their kids have left the nest and they're in empty nester syndrome at an early age and they've got more free time and or they've retired, they start getting sick. Big ailments show up out of nowhere. You look like, yeah.
- Speaker #1
Yeah, no, I see it. I see everything you're describing. Any, any easy tips or tricks that you try to say to feed people? Hey, if you do this, like start here. Okay.
- Speaker #0
So the, yeah, for sure. So I have on my, the link in my bio that I sent you. Sorry. Yeah. The link that I sent you, my resource link, my link tree in there, there's something called an alignment assessment. And if anybody were to go through and do that and I would sit with them afterwards, it's all complimentary. So the assessment is complimentary. And then us going over the information is complimentary. But you get a takeaway of three things. Affirmations that you choose from that work for you based on what we talk about. Essential oil. And I teach you how to bring essential oils into your life. And then some sort of homework assignment. And for me, this is a starting point. I can only meet you where you're at, but I don't know where you're at without a starting point. So this is for full and total alignment. But once we work together and you realize, okay, I can, one of the homework assignments might be instead of, I have to wash the dishes. I choose to wash the dishes. I choose to wash the dishes because I like to have a clean sink. I choose to wash the dishes because I'm grateful that we had dishes to put our food on for dinner, right? We can start to work with that to the point. But when I clean the house, everything I touch, I'm grateful for.
- Speaker #1
Yeah, I got to tell you, I'm never going to be grateful for washing dishes. I have to wash the dishes.
- Speaker #0
Change that. Change that. I choose to wash the dishes because I'm grateful that I have a family to feed. And I'm grateful that we have money. And it changes the script from I have. Believe me, it releases the heaviness by a simple word flip.
- Speaker #1
You know, I guess the way my sort of dopamine hits is I tend to take a task like that and think, ooh, the sooner I get this done, the sooner I can go do this, that, and put my time and energy where I really want it to be and not stare at the dishes going, oh, my gosh, I'm putting it off, putting it off. But if I put it off for 15 minutes, it's probably doing something that I don't really care that much about doing. I'm just. scrolling on my phone or something like that, avoiding it instead of getting it done and then going and doing something meaningful. Um, even if what I'm going and doing is laying on the couch and relaxing, it's still intentional. Um,
- Speaker #0
that's the reward that you've got set up. Right. And a lot of us respond to rewards and when we stack them with the habit that we don't like, just, you know, we, that is a great way of getting that habit. infused and done. You need to do the dishes every night or it's a mess after a week. And then you don't want to touch them because you're an overwhelm because it's too much.
- Speaker #1
Uh, and yeah, yeah, we could do dishes alone, like, and they get grosser. And so the task is even worse. And, uh, yep. You know, one thing that I'm, I need to wrap up, but, uh, something else the jump to ask me as you're talking, um, When you talk about the different generations, some of that, it's all about feedback loops. Our source of information in today's world is so heavily algorithm-driven and so much is just dominated by that. When we get in these tight circles and if we're not out and about interacting with other people and we're not being intentional to hear from people that are not aligned totally with us, we don't realize. All of these differences. And we don't realize just the, you know, the different points of views that may exist out there. So I think it's so important to different generations. I think, you know, I'll offer a lot people who have different lived experiences. There's a lot in all of that, but that's what sort of is coming to my mind. Even sitting down with someone like you or, you know, me, it's giving, you know, and using a tool like you're talking about that assessment. It's giving another source of feedback that we can learn and we can, we can, we can, you know, embrace it and grow from it. So, uh, I don't know that that really stuck out to me. A lot of what you're describing, uh, how much joy, you know, can come from, from that.
- Speaker #0
Well, it was an unexpected, it was an unexpected, simple pleasure that kept on showing up in my life because, because I don't know how many years ago, let's say 40 years ago, 50 years ago. In the 70s, 50 years ago, that is the way, it may be the 80s, that is where our parents got their information from their families, from their forefathers. So there's a wealth of information that we know nothing about unless we learn it online. Right? That information doesn't talk about their experiences and their perspective. Or does it explain all of a sudden why we are the way we are? You know, listening to other people's mindset, I was able to very much self-diagnose myself as ADHD. Knowing that my father has it, my grandson has it, my three daughters have it, and it's generational. I would be a miss. After two minutes of being on this show, you know for sure I've got ADHD. So it slows you down when you don't know something. But when you know it, it opens a window of opportunities.
- Speaker #1
Yeah. I was invited. I was asked to come speak soon. I'm not sure yet when this is going to air. It may have been like maybe right after this is airing or was right before this aired. But it wanted me to share some of my own lived experience. And I laugh. And I've told my parents this, that my first thought was like, oh, if you want to know all my lived experience, I should just bring my parents with me. And that'll explain everything you need to know. Both my parents, they sort of laughed. And I think a little bit uncomfortably as well. But anybody who knows me knows my parents. It actually does explain a lot. So the generational piece. But yeah, what we learned, everything that I know about gardening. I learned from my mom, most as a small child in the garden right alongside her. Things like that. I think there's so much value and joy to be had from that. But I got to wrap up though. The hardest thing about this podcast, I interview and I tell this fascinating, wonderful, amazing people and I'm so chatty. I just want to keep going, but I do want to be mindful of time. So Sonia, for people who have listened and they've got, I want to learn more from her. I'd like to connect. How can they do that? How can they, how can they reach you?
- Speaker #0
Okay. So I have, um, my website is my name. So every I'm working on rebranding everything to my name. So www.sonyagenise.com. You'll find a lot there. And in my link tree, I'm not sure. I'm sure it'd be posted in the show notes, but that is also my resource page. So that's where you'll find, um, links to my, my shows, YouTube's YouTube channels, free assessments, books. that I've written, you'll see links to that. It's my link tree. It's again, probably for other, for normal people, let's go there for divergent people. It probably doesn't seem right, but for anybody that's a neurodivergent, just read it top down and it's logical for us.
- Speaker #1
Got it.
- Speaker #0
And you know, here was a simple giveaway. Have you heard of a weighted blanket?
- Speaker #1
Yes.
- Speaker #0
Do you have one?
- Speaker #1
I sleep on one every night.
- Speaker #0
Okay. Okay. So my daughter gave me one. And since I've been doing this thing with my head, she let me work. Like she's given me the one that she's had because I had to take a lot of rest and it feels like a hug. Okay. My husband tried it one night on the couch and he absolutely hate it. He's like, I don't know how you can use this thing. I can't stand it. And I, again, right there, right then I knew another sign that he was divergent and I was neurodivergent. He couldn't stand in my.
- Speaker #1
best friend is a well she can't stand it i'm like well maybe you're a little bit more normal you're missing out on all the fun uh yeah no i try all those things and i'm a big fan of a weighted blanket uh absolutely i recommend uh anybody trying something like that um i'll say for kids that sometimes kids they squirm enough they have a hard time staying under them you can buy compression sheets to sort of wrap around a mattress that feels like that hug and is much more difficult to kick off like a kid might squirm out of a weighted blanket, but they still get the benefit. So compression sheets, they're not expensive. Usually they're actually cheaper than, than a weighted blanket would be. So there's a fun little extra little tip for you.
- Speaker #0
There you go. A little extra guys, but yes, these tips and tricks is what you're going to get when you, when you talk to people, maybe you realize the pleasure of having a cup of tea and a teacup because it's slower, right? You're going to stick your pinky out. So it's different.
- Speaker #1
it's a little thing i've run into a fancy nancy in my life that i know to stick my pinky out when i do that um so everyone's learning a lot about this summer that both involve teacups so i bought my own yeah love it i love it so again sonny thank you so much for joining me today uh for everybody again thank you for listening to neurodivergent spot i'm sam arian if this episode was meaningful for you and you know somebody else who would... benefit from it, please share it with them. Give us a follow to make sure you don't miss any episodes. Thank you for being here. Thank you.
