- Speaker #0
I think it's hard for people to develop that strong of a self-awareness because it brings up a lot. It brings up a lot of emotions that you have to process on your own.
- Speaker #1
Hey guys, Sam here. And I am really excited for you to get to hear this episode. Sarah Hartley has done some really interesting work, lots of different kind of work. So I really, I really connected with that just because I've done so many different things. but her focus in... coaching parents, and in writing books for kids to understand different aspects of neurodiversity, I just think it's a really beautiful thing. And just hearing her drive, where it comes from, I just think that there's something that you'll enjoy hearing. I absolutely enjoyed it. And then we also realized throughout the interview that we have some kind of personal overlaps as well in sort of real life. So that was just sort of fun. I hope you enjoyed as much as I did. Here's Sarah Hartley. Welcome to NeuroDivergent Spot. I'm your host, Sam Marion. My pronouns are he, him, and I am a mostly neurodivergent therapist, speaker, and creator. My work focuses on all things neurodiversity, but my particular interests are in autism, ADHD, learning differences, and learning disabilities. Today's guest is Sarah Hartley. Sarah, please introduce yourself to the listeners.
- Speaker #0
Hi, Sam, and thank you for having me. I am Sarah Hartley. My pronouns are she and her. I'm a mom of two boys, healthcare executive, children's book series author, and a certified ADHD and neurodiversity coach. My passion is helping kids and parents navigate big feelings and really discover their unique purpose in life.
- Speaker #1
Before we continue, I've got a quick disclaimer. This podcast is for information purposes only and should not be seen as a replacement for therapy, healthcare, or legal advice. I'm going to pick your brain just a little bit right up front. Not at all the topic we planned on. Healthcare executive. What sort of healthcare, if you don't mind me asking?
- Speaker #0
Yeah, no. I work with hospitals and health systems and large group practices on patient acquisition, branding, so marketing and technology efforts to help patients find the right doctors. So also, in addition to that, with behavioral health clients. So I do have that realm of neurodiversity that plays into my professional life as well.
- Speaker #1
Got it. That's a whole interesting space in the healthcare domain. I've worked in corporate healthcare or mental health type settings. I thought my career path was going to be that. I was at a place, I ran an admissions department of an inpatient facility. We had 350-ish inpatient admissions a month in a little town in South Georgia. And my next role would have been like a COO or CEO in training, something like that. And I pivoted hard. I didn't care for it. But the patient acquisition piece, I get it. And now I'm a solo private practice now. And so I still have to market myself. But there's not a marketing team. It's me.
- Speaker #0
Yes.
- Speaker #1
And I like it a lot better this way, actually. But so let's dive in, though. Look forward to hearing more of your story. I just. I don't know. I always ask questions. When people share things that are interesting to me, I have to pick into a little bit. But first question, what has your journey with neurodivergence looked like?
- Speaker #0
You know, I was actually a late stage diagnosis. So I was not diagnosed with ADHD until 25 years old. At that time, of course, they really just give you medication and say beyond your way. I didn't really know much about it beyond. the label that it carried, and then thinking back to when I was younger, who the children were that were really outwardly had ADHD and just what I knew about them. And so it was really more when I became a mom at 33 and 36, so raising two neurodivergent boys, that I really started to understand it on a deeper level and to see how ADHD in my life compared to theirs, it's took turd And it's ultimately pushed me to learn more about my own brain and about neurodiversity as a whole.
- Speaker #1
I really appreciate you sharing that. Sarah, that's sort of a unique story that I don't hear as much. I hear people as a young person, as a child being diagnosed, or there's, it's so common right now, especially amongst moms that are sort of middle-aged moms that are late identified. But that young adult window after. I'm guessing after college, but sort of that mid-20s, that is a little bit different. So many questions come up for me in the therapist that I won't pry into too personally here. Do you recognize that as sort of an interesting little middle space that is less common?
- Speaker #0
Well, I think for me what it was, I went to the University of Georgia. I studied landscape architecture. And so I was often in the studio. We were, it was loud. There were, you know, people playing music or people coming in and out at certain times to do projects. So I would go in, I would hyper focus, bang it out. And then, you know, say it's 5 p.m. I'm done by, you know, 9 p.m. come back the next morning and kids have been there all night long. So I was able to really hyper focus and get my work done. You know, I'd procrastinate until the point where it really pushed me harder to do something. Then when I got in the real world, I went from this very dynamic setting to being in an office and just being bored to tears having to, I would quickly finish projects and there were billable hours, you know, I would... Notice how that entire process worked. And I would just sit there kind of twiddling my thumbs, very bored in my office and took a quiz online. It said, you know, if you get 95 and above, you should talk to your doctor. I think mine was 120 or so. But I didn't present as what you would maybe think a typical person with ADHD did.
- Speaker #1
No, that makes a lot of sense. Both my degrees are from University of Georgia. And I had a roommate who was an LAR major. it University of Georgia who frequently had tough hours like that. It's a, uh, would have, you know, beautiful projects that he, that he would do. Um, one point in time, cause when I bought a house in grad, when I was in grad school and he came and drew up plans for the front yard, I couldn't afford them, but he needed an actual house to draw plans for kind of for a project, something like that. And so then upon selling that house, I left out blueprints like, this is what you could do with the front. to make it look nicer as a little selling point. But that, yeah, that's, I've seen all that. How did you, how did you jump from landscape architecture to healthcare administration? ADHD?
- Speaker #0
Yes, probably. And I'm much happier where I am now, but I laid off twice in 09 with the recession and had to pivot. Ended up moving from Savannah, Georgia to Austin, Texas. Had a friend that had a house and said, you know, come live with me. And so at that time started a dental lab and then made my way to Denver. And in Denver, I've been with my company for now almost 14 years.
- Speaker #1
Got it. Okay. So you have multiple careers sort of through your history that you've been in, but also currently. So let's talk about some of the parent coaching, some of that. You've coined the term. eco-parenting. Can you explain what that means and how it shifts the way parents can connect with their kids?
- Speaker #0
Yeah, absolutely. So, eco-parenting is the idea that our children's behaviors reflect back what we most need to heal within ourselves. One of the hardest things about having a child who's neurodiverse is recognizing your own neurodiversity and their intensity that really triggers us. So... It often really touches something that's unresolved inside of us. And so instead of reacting with frustration, we can really pause and ask, you know, what is my child showing me about my own story? And I think this shift really creates more self-awareness and compassion and allows parents to become less about control and more about mutual growth and connection. We didn't have that support or those resources. And now that we're diving in to support our children as much as we can. Our journey is happening and really mirroring theirs and it's happening right alongside them.
- Speaker #1
Do you find it difficult for people to digest and accept that concept?
- Speaker #0
Yes, I do. I do. I think it's there are many people that I've met who've said, you know, I didn't know I had ADHD until my child was diagnosed. Or I've met people that talk about their ADHD child and I've said. well, which one of you has ADHD? You know, is it you or your husband? And they say, neither one of us, we don't know where it came from. It's like, okay, well, it came, you know, nine times out of 10, this is going to be something that is inherited. It's your genetics. But, you know, I think it's hard for people to develop that strong of a self-awareness because it brings up a lot. It brings up a lot of emotions that you have to process on your own.
- Speaker #1
Yeah, it absolutely does. I see this a lot in my work. Um, and I see it with, with ADHD, I see with autism, um, that is super common there where it's sort of this like, well, these traits are showing up, um, all the way through. Uh, and, and as we're recording this for, for listeners to have perspective, um, Yesterday is when the president and RFK Jr., they had their press conference around autism and acetaminophen and stuff like that. That's the context. And, you know, that's all these correlational studies. There's also associations out there of kids whose mom is in more of an analytical profession. like those moms are much more likely to have an autistic kid, but that's not a causation. It's just like the genetics, what are they drawn to kind of a thing. Right. And some of these traits. And, and, uh, there's also an interesting thing out there of like, uh, autistic kids are much more likely to have a grandfather that was an engineer.
- Speaker #0
My grandfather was an engineer.
- Speaker #1
My grandfather was. So yeah, that's sort of interesting stuff like that. It's like, these are, these are genetic traits that people are drawn to certain things. Right. Um, So it's sort of fun to look at all that. But let's keep going. Sarah, you're about to launch 13 children's books in just 13 months, which I'm sort of assuming that's planned out. This isn't like, no, I'm going to get one written every month, which would be a super ADHD thing to do, I think. It'd be like, no, no, I'll just get it done one at a time. But quite the undertaking. What inspired the series? What do you hope families will take from it? What can you share about that? that?
- Speaker #0
Yeah, absolutely. So it's called the Purposefully Me series. It was born from really almost a breaking point. I had just been diagnosed with Lyme disease. My oldest was going through a lot of diagnoses with ADHD, sensory processing disorder, being highly gifted. And so I had this moment in the shower where I just said, what is my purpose? Why am I here? And it just sparked the first book that I wrote. I got out of the shower. I wrote that first book. book. But ultimately, it's for me wanting for neurodivergent kids to feel seen and understood and empowered. Each story is set in a classroom where a child has a unique challenge or strength. And so there are various affirmations throughout the book, discussion questions, but it's for families to spark conversations and talk about emotions and differences and ultimately understand that they are human beings that matter and have them. feel a little less alone in their own brains.
- Speaker #1
Is that a common experience for you to have sort of a thought, whether it's in the shower, out on a run, or, you know, who knows what, right? And you're like, okay, I've got this idea. And it turns out to be almost from the start, sort of a fleshed out, fully, like, you know, it's an idea. It's a real thing.
- Speaker #0
Yes, it happens often. Sometimes I have to tame them because there may be, there isn't enough to them. This one, it... really continued for a couple of years, matched some of the affirmations I have both of my children say at night before they go to bed to just reaffirm, you know, more positive things since having ADHD or any kind of neurodivergency causes a lot of negative thoughts. And so that really sparked the ideas for some other books. And then I found a book coach and we really turned it into something beautiful.
- Speaker #1
So how long has this process been? And How did you find the patience to take your time and do it so thoroughly?
- Speaker #0
I'd say probably the first one was maybe in 2021, 22. Took kind of a while. I got up to about seven by July of 24. Started with a book coach in July of 24. Pulled that into 13 books. We probably finished up everything by end of February, beginning of March. And then since then, I've been working through the publishing process, being paired with an illustrator. But for me, it's more of me staying on task. Sometimes things with my ADHD can be out of sight, out of mind. Or, you know, you procrastinate up until that point, and then you deliver a ton all at once. So having these regular weekly meetings with a book coach was able to keep me on task. That way, and it might have been the night before that I was rushing to do something that, you know, she needed because this is all for me been after hours, you know, it's not my day job. And she really held me accountable. So having that accountability partner is ultimately what allowed for me to complete everything.
- Speaker #1
Got it. Awesome. That's really neat. I want to keep going, trying to be mindful of time. You've also, because amongst all the other things that you're creating, coining terms and writing books. You have created the Align Parenting Method, trademark, a five-step grounding tool for parents. Can you share, like, what is it? How does it work? Why is it effective?
- Speaker #0
Yes. So the Align Parenting Method is something I developed to help parents really pause and reset in those tough moments when your emotions are running high. And usually it's caused by something that's triggering you from your child. So in the moment, it can take less than 60 seconds. A is for awareness. You start to notice what's happening inside your body. Is your chest tight or your fist tight? Are you clenching your jaw? Then you listen and label. So you're listening to your surroundings, your child, and you're naming that feeling. You know, I'm feeling really overwhelmed. You identify what those triggers are that are really making things hard in that moment. You know, is it that they've just come home from school and they're really tired or maybe they had a rough day? G is for grounding. So do a simple grounding exercise, whether that's together or you have do it yourself. And then the last one that's so important is the nurture piece. So then you really have empathy and compassion for them because you can't have empathy and be angry at the same time.
- Speaker #1
What was your process for developing that?
- Speaker #0
Oh, so I've, you know, I've had a therapist for many years. My therapist also specializes in neurodivergency. And so I've tried, you know, multiple different things of in the moment to just try to get me out of that moment and to calm my own body. And I just had to go through a series of grounding seems to really work. for me more than just taking a deep breath, you know, whether that is a 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, or taking a sip of water to reset your central nervous system or, you know, naming three things you see. So that has always been powerful for me. And then with that echo parenting, understanding that there's something more there. You have to have that curiosity. They are ultimately triggering you. And in order for your child to be calm, you have to be calm too. And so it's really to not lose it. That is the goal behind it, because if we can maintain that calm, it will allow to that co-regulation piece for our children. And so I had to kind of work through a lot of different things that were going to help me. And I can in the moment, I will whisper to myself, align, align, align with him and we can get through this. And it's almost like giving yourself a pep talk. And it's very quick in the moment once you practice it. And it allows for that connection because you have to have that connection in the middle of all the chaos.
- Speaker #1
How much do your kids know about this method?
- Speaker #0
I have definitely tried it with them many times. So I'm trying to push it even further where they maybe would do it on their own. But there have definitely been many examples of where I've used it, and it's worked in that moment. And so I have to find something that works. And if it works for me with my impatient, how impatient I am and works for my children who are. boys that are bouncing off the walls all day long, then I think it can work for anyone.
- Speaker #1
Yeah, it's so important that we model these things too, right? And that you're using this method of, you know, grounding, so regulating yourself and then connecting and nurturing. That I think that that's such a powerful, just sort of full process there. So I appreciate you sharing that with us. Of all the things we've touched on, is there anywhere you'd like to go back and deep dive a little bit more?
- Speaker #0
You know, just I can give maybe an example of the aligned parenting method of just in the moment of how you use it. Because, you know, I went through that pretty quickly. But using it in real time or in the middle of a meltdown, I think, is where it's going to make the most impact.
- Speaker #1
Yeah. Can you describe what that does look like?
- Speaker #0
Yeah, absolutely. I know we talked a little bit about us both being from Georgia. So I'm sure you've probably heard of the Savannah Bananas, you know, being that phenomenon baseball team right now. We took our boys to the Colorado Rockies Stadium in Denver. The Bananas played there. We had to wait in line. We were probably outside for about 45 minutes to an hour and it was very hot outside. We went in early so we could get signatures from all the players and they had some events and things going on. So it's hot, you know, it's crowded, it's loud. And my son is just complaining. He's like, this is boring. I don't like this. I want to go home. And, you know, in my mind, I'm thinking, I just paid so much money for these tickets. Like, you're going to like it, you know? And so instead, I just kind of whispered a line to me and I said, oh, hey, buddy, I'm feeling my chest is really tight right now and I'm sweating. I'm really hot. It looks like you're overwhelmed too. Um, it's really hot out here. It's loud. You know, there's, there's different smells coming from the stadium. There's a lot of people it's crowded. Um, let's take a sip of water together. And let's name three things that are purple. You know, it's the Rocky Stadium. So we named three things that are purple. And then I said, I totally get it, buddy. I am completely overwhelmed too. I totally understand why you're feeling that way. It looks like the line's moving. Would you like for us to go inside or do you really still want to go home? And he's like, no, let's go get my ball signed. So, you know, in that moment, it was very quick, but I had to become a detective, identify what his triggers were, because it was the same thing triggering me plus his frustration and really name that to be able to ground myself and come back to it and move on.
- Speaker #1
Yeah, that's powerful. How do you apply that in moments where you started out wrong? Because as parents, look, we start out wrong a lot. Some of us. I do. I'll own that. How about that? I won't say that you do. But how do you use it to recover?
- Speaker #0
So there's a couple ways that you could either, you know, if it's way past the moment in the time, reflect on it and say, what could I have done if I would have gone through, you know, that acronym of a line? You know, what would have that done in the moment? But I think the most important thing is the repair. And admitting fault to your child and saying, hey, look, and then naming it to them. I was really overwhelmed. I was feeling tightness in my chest and my body. I was sweating. I've had a long day. I'm so sorry for snapping at you or yelling at you. I see you've probably had a long day too. I'd love if you could forgive me or if we could get a hug or do something together. Maybe we spend the next 10 minutes playing together and doing, you choose whatever it is. Um, and really having that connecting time with them, but the repair is, is such an important piece. Um, and you can always, you know, restart that as part of it.
- Speaker #1
I love it. I love it. That's great. Um, I'm guessing that when you're coaching people, that's a conversation you're having a bit is the light. No, it's okay. You messed up, made a mistake, whatever. Cause that's human. Let's, you know, let's recover this and let's keep going. Um, up. How do you navigate the shame that parents bring up? Because I know it happens.
- Speaker #0
Absolutely. And so, you know, with this aligned parenting method, you can do it alone, you know, even if you're just having a tough day. So it doesn't have to be in the middle of parenting. And where the nurture piece comes in, the in, when it's not nurturing your child, it's nurturing yourself and allowing yourself to say, I'm okay. I can make mistakes. You know, give yourself that grace, or maybe it's, you know, you're alongside of your spouse or your partner and, you know, they're driving you crazy or at work. You know, there's still that nurturing piece that you can just allow yourself the ability to make mistakes. I think a lot of us were scared of making mistakes when we were younger, especially those who are neurodiverse. You know, we have that element of perfectionism and it's very difficult when we do make mistakes and we do have so much shame. So. allowing that grace and understanding that the end is not just for your child. It's for you too.
- Speaker #1
Love it. We'll wrap there. You've shared, Sarah, a lot of really valuable information. For people that are listening and they want to learn more, they want to engage further with your work, how can they find you? How can they do so? And when do the books come out?
- Speaker #0
Great question. So you can find me Um, primarily on Instagram. I give a lot of tips for calming methods. That's at Sarah Lewis Hartley. It's S-A-R-A-L-E-W-I-S-H-A-R-T-L-E-Y. You can also go to my website, sarahlewishartley.com, and download your free Align Method guide. And the books, the first book should be released in November. The illustrations are finalized. Everything has been pushed to production. We're just working through some of the logistics now. Um, so that should be available in November. We're almost finished, um, all the illustrations for the second book. So you'll start to see those, um, come out as well. So I'll have information on my website and on Instagram.
- Speaker #1
Awesome. Uh, Sarah, I just want to say this too. Congratulations on all of this and on the publishing, uh, all of the stuff's going to be linked in the show notes for sure. So people can check that out and they can find you. Uh, Sarah, I really appreciate you being here with me today. Appreciate you letting me pick your brain some, um, Yeah, and good luck with all this. I hope it keeps going well.
- Speaker #0
Oh, thank you. And thank you so much for having me.
- Speaker #1
This has been Nerd Average Spot. I am Sam Marion. If you know somebody who could benefit from hearing Sarah share, please share the episode with them so that they can also learn from her. Give us a like, a follow, subscribe, all the things to make sure you don't miss any future episodes. Thank you.
