Speaker #0Welcome back to the road leads back to me. I'm Coral Seckle and today we're going to be talking about narcissism This is a very big trigger word that is out in the zeitgeist right now If you are somebody that follows pop culture or are even part of a mom group on Facebook You've probably seen I'm married to a narcissist or my mother-in-law's a narcissist, but people don't really know what the word means and being diagnosed with narcissism is very different than being diagnosed with narcissistic personality disorder because there's a chronicity there. So I wanted to use today's episode to talk to you about that and educate you and also give you some signs to look out for. Let's talk about it. So I wanted to talk to you guys today about narcissism because I feel like everybody and their mother is talking about it. And I decided to take out my handy dandy dsm the dsm-5 tr is the most updated uh diagnostic manual that we have now for psychology so if you are being diagnosed by someone who is licensed let me make sure i lead with that you can only be diagnosed by somebody that is licensed and has done a higher education in this you should not be diagnosing anything because you're gonna have your own belief system and your own version of things. even if that person doesn't have that version of things. Now, to be fair, a narcissist always has their version of things, and you will always have your version of things. But that's why you don't diagnose or even treat friends. Because if you don't have that bias checked, you can transfer that onto yours or to your friend. So I wanted to go over what narcissistic personality disorder is before we even talk about what narcissism is. We know the big thing, so then we know what traits. we're looking for. Traits are characteristics that all of us carry. We all have different types of traits, but I remember when I was in grad school, my teacher who was teaching us how to diagnose told us, you're going to look in this book and you're going to find yourself out of diagnosis. What you need to know or think about is chronicity. So I want you to think of that. Chronicity means how long this person has been behaving in that way. Now, if a life event happened And let's say someone lost a parent. Sometimes people losing a parent, a child or something or someone in their life, right? Even an animal can cause them to become what is called fragmented. And then you can see a shift in their personality while they're grieving. Now, we need to take that into consideration as well. Or if someone experienced a heartbreak or anything to that effect, anything that could really cause you to change. But the point of this is that eventually you come back. to you. Someone with NPD, narcissistic personality disorder, does not do that. Someone with that is a narcissist, although it is very difficult because it requires them getting insight and actually wanting to get care for themselves, very rare, but they can change. If you have a clinician that is skilled enough to catch it, because here's the thing, people that are narcissistic or are narcissists are very charming. They have to be. How else would they lure you in? So I wanted to make sure I talk about that and actually show you the DSM here and the stuff I have highlighted. I'm going to kind of skim through it, but I want to talk to you about what the diagnostic criteria is. So it's a pervasive pattern of grandiosity, infancy or behavior, need for admiration, and lack of empathy. The lack of empathy is the key thing here. They don't give a fuck about how This their decision impacts you. They care about them and how it benefits them. That is the key thing I need you to guide yourselves on. If I was and this is not that, you know, this is not therapy, but if I was telling you you were in my office, I would tell you that. OK, so empathy beginning in early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts as indicated by five or more of the following. So you need five of these nine characteristics in order to be diagnosed with narcissistic personality disorder. I want you to know people with NPD, I believe that the data the last time I checked, it's like one or two percent of people are diagnosed with it. And that's because you have to be accountable and take accountability and actually want to go get help. So there are there very well could be a lot of people with NPD walking around and we don't know about it. because that would require ticket accountability so i want to make sure we keep that in mind before i read the criteria number one has a grandiose sense of importance Exaggerates achievements or talents expects to be recognized as superior without commensurating achievements. So this is like someone that, let's say, goes to law school but never actually passes their bar. But they decide to try to put this above you and not try to acknowledge that they didn't pass their bar. Why do you take that as an example? Or someone that goes to try to become a therapist and doesn't pass their year in Florida, what is called the EPPP. And there's different types of narcissists, and we're going to talk about that in another video. But those are two very big examples and kind of specific examples that I can think off the top of my head. But of people that want to say that there's something, but are never truly that. Okay, so what does that tell you? They're stemming from a place of pain. So when they're operating like that, that's something you need to clock. Okay? Two, is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love. Usually people that have NPD or are narcissistic tend to have what is called an abandonment wound. Meaning they become hyper fixated. And when I think of some of my closest girlfriends and even myself shit, like some of that. biggest assholes I've ever dated were the most charming guys that you would have never thought they would be that if you looked at them in a picture especially if you looked at them in a picture of me and them you'd say man that guy was such a nice guy yeah yeah such a nice guy yeah okay except he did this he did that or he was covert that's what you tend to see the most covert there are some people that are outright narcissists And then there's some people that are more covert, so they do it on the down low. Three, believes that he or she is special or unique and can only be understood by or associated or should associate with other special or high status people or institutions. These are people that can't be humbled. These are people that went to public school and then now that they have private school money, they think they're better than their public school counterparts. Straight up. These are all real life examples of all the people that I get. Requires excessive admiration. These are the people that have to always take a selfie, especially if you're a Gen Xer or a millennial, you'll appreciate this reference. Think of those people that have that reaction or that interaction with you of like, what have you done for me lately? They're giving what have you done for me lately energy. And if you don't give them anything, they're not going to want to associate with you. Because they're social climbers. Clock it. These are all things you need to clock. Because people could possess this and not necessarily have all of it. So these are all traits to look out for with a narcissist. And these are the people that you see take like a shit ton of selfies. And everything's a selfie all the time. And it's like, respectfully, weird. Like, I mean, it's not a bad thing to take selfies. But like, why take selfies? And you won't. We'll talk about it. And I would like to hear your things in the comments. It's kind of like people that have their self, like their own face as like their background. Respect me. It's true. It's kind of, it's weird. It's weird. I'm sorry. Like, I've always thought that was weird. And you see people needing to have the likes and the excessive admiration. Okay, fine. Has a sense of entitlement. Unreasonable expectations. Expectations of especially be. especially my session especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations okay when i talked about groupthink that's what i'm talking about and groupthink enables this sort of person okay i think of how even i have an example off the top of my head growing up i was part of a friend group that there was this one girl that the people didn't even really like but they just kind of complied with everything that she wanted they didn't even like her and we were put into many many like very serious uh positions but one of the things that that always stood out to me was the sense of entitlement was the sense of she got her way and it was like everybody else and the people didn't even like her but they just put up with her because that was who she was right so there's that sense of entitlement is interpersonally exploitive, takes advantage of others to achieve his or her or her own end. And that's when you have people who, what have you done for me? Lately, we'll do things like not pay the utilities if you share a space with them and then come up with every lie. Oh, you owe me this from from like four months ago, this Instacart that you did. And it's like, why didn't you charge me the day of or tell me about this? There's always an excuse. So they always want to try to be exploitive in that in that manner. Lacks empathy, is unwilling to recognize or identify with feelings or the needs of others. an example I can think of this is an interaction I had with a narcissist I know that person really does have NPD and I'll never forget telling her hey I'm very stressed right now I'm I I struggle with a stress-induced alopecia and it was the first time I had lost a clump of hair and I was like hey uh this is happening and I need you to please pay up like this is getting weird now it's been a few months already. and she looked me down the face and she was like it seems like we're both dealing with a lot of things i need you to know that it's not a pissing contest to compare things but when someone tells you something and advocates for themselves if you care about them you listen especially if you're wrong like that's the reality and the truth of it especially if they're telling you hey this is physiologically like the stress of all this like is is getting to me not holding space for that person And lacking that empathy, especially knowing anything else that that person is going through in their personal life, that's not someone that cares about you. And that's something you need to clock, especially when they do that, because you will hear this from me time and time again. When someone shows you who they are, believe them, especially in that interaction. It's often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her. I'm sure we all know somebody. that you notice just, oh, you're really going to wear that? Oh, you look pretty. And it's like, dude, my lip's messed up. What are you talking about? Or this looks weird. I'm not even done yet. Oh, but you look perfect. Yeah, you should go exactly like that. Like you feel that they need, that they almost want to outshine you. Shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes. And when someone is arrogant or haughty, like, you know. It's they think more than you or they talk down to you. I think of when, you know, something for me that's only when I was a single girl. I'm happily married now, but something I would look at when I was dating a guy was how they treated the server and how they tipped. Because we cannot be frugal and have like our own stuff. But if someone is does a good job, you want to honor that. And that was always a big red flag for me when I was dating or on dates with guys and always something I looked out for. So down in the comments, I want to know what are your thoughts on the diagnostic criteria? And I want to talk to you about all these nine things. Someone could possess three or four of these at a long or chronic amount of time. Right. So let's say that you've been with someone and the narcissism turned on within three, four months. You already fell in love. They love bombed you. You thought they were perfect. And then all of a sudden, something just feels off. Here's the one thing I'm going to tell you. If something seems too perfect and too good to be true, it is. And I need you to know that. And I need you to clock it. And I'm not trying to instill any sense of waiting for the other shoe to drop. But if you are someone who are with somebody that... Sometimes you feel something's off, but they've been so great and so perfect that there's no way. That's usually how they start. And that's usually how they get you. So you need to be mindful of that and clock it. The other thing that I want to talk about is some people could have all five or maybe even six of these, but not have it forever. In this diagnostic, usually this starts off. I want to say in... early adolescence you start noticing these narcissistic traits or it's kind of what people have dubbed people's villain era and here's the thing i grapple with being a villain because sometimes being a villain just means being blunt and just calling things out and someone will label you a villain it's just like i'm being honest and honoring myself whereas someone could actually be trying to not care about how their actions make you feel and don't want to call themselves a villain, but they'll call themselves a victim of you. for not being fair to them and honoring them. A relationship isn't always 50-50, and we need to know that. You know, it's sometimes even 70-30 or 80-20, but it's the chronicity we need to be mindful of, right? We want to be mindful of how long that dynamic takes, because if it's taking too long, then it's a problem, and you need to clock it, because if not, you can endure financial abuse or anything like that, especially from someone who... possesses narcissistic traits. So you're probably watching or listening to this because you're like, let me see if this therapist nails the narcissist thing and actually tells me something different because I don't want to believe that the person I'm with is like this. But a lot of the things she just read off the DSM sound like the person I'm with. What do I do? And can he change or she change because narcissists are not only to the opposite sex. So I want to be mindful of this because recognizing it is also the shock of it. You may start replaying the last however long you've been with this person and recognize that feelings of anger, disappointment, betrayal could come up. I want you to recognize that and honor that for yourself. And if you're not in therapy, I suggest you hop it at this point. you know videos like mine are going to be great supplements and i'm happy to you want more if you have more questions please put it in the comment section and i will try my best to always if it's not on here on the other platforms to make sure that you have the most up-to-date advice and i'm happy to always i'm always filming so i always love to answer these questions for you guys but can they change i think is one of the biggest things and what do i do in this so Number one, I need you to go to therapy. Number two, I need you to start clocking it. And the biggest thing that I need you to clock are the double standards. If this person did this to you, all hell would probably break loose. And how dare you? You're awful. And all the things that they probably tell you just for breathing. Okay? If you feel like that. you're likely in one of these narcissistic dynamics we're not going to take away from that because it's your true lived experience but you need to clock it and you need to come to reality with it now it's difficult if you are married to this person have children with this person are in business with this person and i know in my lived experience with some of the narcissists that i've had to deal with in my lifetime which have been a lot um it's been in many different types of settings right and for me it's always being very upfront and having everything in writing i am by nature and by profession a cover your ass kind of person so if you guys have a conversation you're going to follow up that conversation with hey we today we talked about blah blah blah and i just wanted to make sure we had it here so we don't forget because at the end of the day whoever you're in a dynamic with it should be transparent and if we're both being equal and love each other then both things should be okay And it should be written down and for something that you could refer back to. Words matter here a lot, especially with a narcissist who maybe talks a lot of shit but doesn't back it up, which we have a lot of them are, respectfully. But I want you to check that and I want you to clock it and I want you to always do that. So keep a paper trail. Hey, this person did this this day and I know it sounds... A little scary because it's like, I need to live my life. Why am I with someone that's doing this? But a narcissist will literally gaslight you. And that's a whole other topic we can go into of being gaslit. But they will gaslight you into thinking that you did something wrong just for telling them to respect you. Hey, don't cheat on me. How dare you look through my phone? Fuck you for looking through my phone. Fuck you for having your dick in someone else. How about that? We can't say that, right? But we can. This is where I want you to come to if you feel that way. That you're like, I just need someone to validate this that's going on for me right now. And am I being gaslit? If you're asking yourself if you're being gaslit, you probably are. And that's a huge indicator for you. Okay? And I want you to be mindful of that. If someone reaches out to you. and gives you a heads up about this person i would say some people People are, you know, not good people. So that's fair. We could say that. But if it's another girl being like, hey, this person did this to me. And I just wanted to give you a heads up, because I don't want you to deal with what I dealt with. Listen to them. I'm going to give you a personal anecdote. I dated a guy in my early 20s who stole my credit card. And I had no idea he stole my And... the way i figured this out was because i was working night shifts and he was taking the other girl out while i was working at night and going to grad school and doing an internship at the same time i don't know if i was in my internship yet but it was around that time and i'll never forget something told me so intuition something feels off honor it and listen to it because when we're we're in a narcissistic kind of dynamic that. that little almost spidey sense or intuitive sense that was down because it's it thinks it has to something told me that day check his twitter now i need you to understand that this took place like in 2013 we did not we did not have the ability to screenshot yet so i was very much on my laptop taking the picture of my laptop of the tweets that i was seeing because the idiot uh went ahead and was talking his valentine's day plans with his other girlfriend, you know, the one during the day, right? And I'll never forget him telling me, no, it's just my lesbian friend. I don't know what you're talking about. I had to email him the picture because I couldn't even text it to him because I don't think we were able to. And I was like, oh yeah, she's your lesbian friend? Say less. Hi, I'm Coral. I'm the girl's girlfriend. He says you're his lesbian friend. Is this true? No. if the person that's with him subscribes to that and is okay with that that's hers then you give that to her because that's not for you all right and what happens i don't hear from her for a week one week later already broken up with this person one week later i get a message from her and she is like can i talk to you and we spoke for hours about all the things he did and she is the one who put me onto him stealing from my credit card because he was making micro purchases from it and that's a form of financial abuse but we don't realize it because we're just trying to be such in my case i just wanted to be loved and i just wanted to be with someone who i thought loved me because we all want that especially in your early 20s or mid-20s i didn't get any age but That's an example of how if something happens, you clock it like that. And I'm very spiritual and very woo-woo. And I will tell you that me holding that boundary and doing that was me telling the universe, God, whatever you believe in, Hey, I don't want that. And whoever's with me, I'm going to make sure that they don't do that. And I'm going to call it out because I'm not going to tolerate that because I respect myself. And little by little. I was able to move away and do the things that I had to do. However, here's one thing I will tell you. People that are narcissistic or have NPD, can they change? Have I seen it? Yes. But they had to lose everything in order to do so. And even after they lost everything, you take them back, they'll still try you again. And that's when you really need to walk away. So if you want to give someone the benefit of the doubt, I'm never going to tell you not to do it. But when you're giving more benefit and there is much more doubt that is there, you need to clock it and be honest with yourself about it. So when we talk about narcissistic traits and someone with narcissistic personality disorder, the DSM requires you to have five of those nine criterion at a significant amount of time. So if this is someone what we would call if this is someone's baseline. and this is just who they are by nature and have always been this way, the chronicity is there, and that's how they would likely be diagnosed with NPD. Again, like I mentioned earlier, I think it's like less than 1% or less than 2% of people are diagnosed with this personality disorder because that would require taking accountability, and narcissists don't tend to do that. Now, someone could have narcissistic traits, and I don't know which housewife was talking about. this but it was in the miami i think it was lisa i i really love pop culture and i love housewives especially miami duh 305 till i die but I think she was like, some of us, if you're a CEO or, which is true, a lot of CEOs are narcissistic. And if you're an entrepreneur, you have to be a narcissist. I think she says something like that. Or if you own a business, you have to be a narcissist. She's not wrong. And having some narcissistic traits aren't necessarily bad. You should have a sense of belief that you're important. But it shouldn't be inflated and like that all the time. Right? So it's not like, oh, my God, I love myself. Right? Like, let's say I say that to myself. I love myself and I honor myself. But that doesn't mean that I think I'm better than you. If you and I, like, you and I need to breathe the same way, drink water the same way, we probably pee and poop, well, different ways, but maybe the same way. But we all have these things that we do that make us human, right? I don't think I'm better than you, and you shouldn't think you're better than anybody. And I think that's the inflated sense of self, and like I mentioned, the empathy. So some of us can possess narcissistic traits, and they're not necessarily bad, but they're not great either. And you have to temper them. But the traits are the really difficult part, right? Because you possess these and do it all the time, but maybe don't have all five for a very extended period of time, or maybe something really traumatic happened. Usually people that have something that was traumatic to them, and narcissists tend to also stem from a place of trauma. Like I mentioned, they typically are people that have been needed to feel like they need to be important because they weren't good enough. growing up or they were abandoned by a parent. And if that's the case, typically that's what you'll see. So it's important to be mindful of that because someone could possess narcissistic traits and be a narcissist, but not have narcissistic personality disorder. So thank you so much for joining me on The Road Leads Back to Me. I hope this episode was helpful and was able to give you some clarity on just what's a narcissist, what are narcissistic traits, and what does someone with narcissistic personality disorder look like, feel like, and is like. So I hope the examples were helpful. Please make sure that you stick around. This is not the only narcissistic topic we're going to talk about. We are going to go into a lot of this. So I welcome you to please make sure you have any questions that you have for me or examples. If you want to touch base to my team, you could check out the email in the bio. If you want to, if you have a certain example that maybe you want me to touch on and maybe talk about or share. You're more than welcome to do that. And I'm happy to answer any questions you have. And thank you so much for joining. I'll see you next time.
