Transcription

• Speaker #0

  A people pleaser will often be like, what will they say? I don't care. I'll eat whatever. I'll go wherever. Whatever everybody else wants is fine with me. Get away from fear and anxiety and closer to confidence and feel more secure than we are. We want to think realistically. Statistically and positively. Bake it till you make it is, I call, unicorn pie-in-the-sky positivity. The self-sabotage is that I will see people get really close to that successful marker they have for themselves. And then fear of failure comes up because of that fear and anxiety.

• Speaker #1

  Today on the podcast, we have Dr. Gressner, who is a licensed clinical psychologist in Denver, Colorado. She is the creator of Core Confidence, and we're so glad that she's here with us today. You know, she is highly experienced in helping people to create the authentic, happy life that they deserve. So welcome, Dr. Gressner.

• Speaker #0

  Thank you so much, Sun. It's great to be here. I'm excited to talk to you and have this conversation today.

• Speaker #1

  Thank you. So for the listeners who might not be as familiar with you, will you share a little bit about who you are, your life, and how did you get into the work that you're doing today?

• Speaker #0

  Sure. Well, I'm a licensed clinical psychologist. I have 20 years clinical experience now. In practice, I have a private practice here in Denver, Colorado, but I actually see clients all across the country. I'm a SIPAC certified psychologist, which means I can work across state lines. So I actually can see clients in up to 43 states, which has been great. That's something that happened after COVID to allow therapists to, it's really just psychologists at this point that can do that. And my specialties are anxiety, confidence, and relationships. Confidence and self-esteem has always been an interest area of mine since I started my career as a grad student and after. And I have developed and created this concept of core confidence. And core confidence is really developing a stronger sense of self and confidence that outweighs any fear and anxiety. And so in doing so, I've found it helps people be more successful in life, all the way from career to maybe relationships.

• Speaker #1

  You know, before I get into this interview today, I was in an Uber and I was thinking about a situation that had nothing to do with me. And... I just kept thinking and thinking and the two cups of coffee definitely didn't help. And I started creating anxiety. I mean, to say that it has nothing, had nothing to do with me. You know, I am obviously aware of the situation enough to be thinking about it. And out of nowhere, I was like, what am I thinking about? This is not on me. This is on other key players in the situation. And I'm just trying to be relevant here. by inserting myself in a situation that I can easily walk away. And I start to think about why I do that. And then I was like, maybe because I think about other people more than I think about myself. I prioritize other people's happiness and what they think more than me spending time, the energy to take care of myself. Would you think that's an example of maybe my core confidence has not been... be developed to the point that I can become maybe obviously not self-centered, but more self-loved, more self-favored? I don't know.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, well, I think what I'm hearing, I mean, I think it's also self-awareness and a stronger, I mean, a lot of times we tend to overthink and overanalyze others and we kind of forget about ourselves. And in doing so, we forego maybe our own needs or what prioritize what's best for us. You're kind of making me think about people who might be over-accommodators or people pleasers. It sounds kind of related to that a bit.

• Speaker #1

  Definitely. So where or when in your life that you realized maybe certain pattern or certain way of living was not serving you? And you start to look into... you know, maybe the cause, the reason, and now that you're teaching other people how to live in core confidence?

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, I had a personal, I started my career in college student mental health and I worked at university counseling centers serving college students on campus. It was a great place to start my career. When I had my first, I have two sons, they're teenagers now. But when I had my first son, I started my private practice, my therapy business as well. So the correlation of those two experiences actually, now I can say was quite rewarding, but at the time was quite challenging. And so being a parent for the very first time on my personal journey was when I knew I was probably the most challenged in my confidence, and I had to work on developing new confidence. And this is true for all of us. Normally, confidence grows when life asks us to. right? So often when I work with clients, if life is easy and seamless, actually you won't grow or evolve or become a better version of yourself. It's actually when life demands that we have to do a new challenge in life. Maybe for me, it was becoming a parent. Maybe it's somebody starting law school, maybe a job promotion, marriage. I mean, I could go on and on, but it's when we are confronted with this developmental milestones in life that actually could be quite good or rewarding a positive thing but we're asked to show up in a new and different way and that's when I see people are challenged by kind of their confidence but then those challenge presents an opportunity for growth and becoming a

• Speaker #1

  stronger sense of who they are I do agree with that and I will go even so far to say I think that should be the mindset that majority of us should live by you But I would also just say at this moment, and right now is 2026, April 17th, I'm so exhausted from growing. I felt like I grew a lot and like, I just, I'm so tired. And like, sometimes I'm like, well, you go to therapy. I'm fine. Like I went through three, four years of therapy sessions and I'm just like, I think I'm okay. You know? But I also think that in those moments of challenges, It's just sometimes it's so overwhelming and so hard. And me, myself, as an example, it's really sometimes I just want to hide. Right. And there is a lot of fear. And when life through challenges at you, it's not sometimes it's not necessarily just situational. It's shaking your foundational core. If somebody is, you know, reading a tarot card right now is the tower card that essentially breaks everything you've ever known and rebuild, you know, your entire life. And I think for somebody who is not used to changes or somebody who don't have the core confidence just yet to the level that can help them to power through different circumstances, they tend to like take maybe three steps back and start people pleasing, shrinking themselves because they just they don't know how to stand up for themselves. So for people who might not have the tools to... face challenges in the most constructive way. What's your suggestion on, you know, what's the first thing you would recommend for them to do to help develop this skill set?

• Speaker #0

  Sure. I mean, and definitely you, there was so much in there I wish I could respond to. Just so you know, therapy, we are supposed to take breaks from therapy. There's very rare that people are lifers, as I say, in therapy. A few, but I, you know, I do agree with you. when you said as far as three, four years, like sometimes growing and evolving is great, but I often in my 20 years in practice, I might work with a client for a few years and then we stop because they've done the work and they need to just go live their lives and then incorporate it. What's lovely is when in a few years, they might come back to do another piece of work. So I just wanted to comment on that because not everybody has to be in therapy at all times their whole life, right?

• Speaker #1

  I love it. I feel so validated. Like you just worked me.

• Speaker #0

  But let me get back to answering that question about where do we start. And really, the best place to start is really taking small risks outside of your comfort zone. Okay? Confidence grows when we get out of the comfortable. Now, I know a lot of people are probably freaking out as I'm saying this. We don't want to do that. And I think you alluded to people pleasing and sometimes accommodating too. And so I have a quick example, and I often use this with clients. So... Have you had that experience before when maybe you're with a partner or friends and you're all trying to decide where you're going to go out to eat? Like what kind of food do we want to eat tonight? A people pleaser will often be like, what will they say? I don't care. I'll eat whatever. I'll go wherever. Whatever everybody else wants is fine with me. Okay, so what I normally will encourage people to do to stop people pleasing and accommodating, and this might sound, it starts really small, choose something. Say what you want. Be decisive. I want pizza. Let's go get pizza. Or... Pizza or Chinese? Let's do pizza or Chinese, even if you want two choices, if making the full choice feels too scary. Now, this might sound like a silly example, but here's what's happening underneath it. You're taking a risk. You're putting yourself out there, even if it's just choosing food, right? But the idea is that internally, you're starting to pay attention to your needs. Maybe you're craving pizza. So what starts to happen is you start to pay attention to what do I need? internal more than just accommodating the external group and trying to appease everyone. And then externally, people start to see you different. When we slowly do this, people will start to recognize, well, this is a person that's decisive, right? Most of us like when somebody can just make a decision, right? Instead of the hemming and hawing. So this really small example is just a place to start. And then you can start to do this in bigger ways in your life. And so whether inserts. on a team, at work, right? Like being the one to say, take a risk in a staff meeting, say, I think we should do this, whether it's in your relationship and you're wanting to say, I need more of this from you as a partner. So then you built on that. And then slowly over time through experience, this is how people start to gain more confidence and accommodate less.

• Speaker #1

  That makes sense. Now, my question is, could it look differently for different people? For example, I am a Libra and making a decision is very hard for me.

• Speaker #0

  Okay.

• Speaker #1

  When I'm choosing something to watch, I will spend two hours choosing to actually watch something. But what I do, while I don't know what exactly I want, sometimes I do know what I don't want. So going back to the food choices conversation, what if somebody is like, okay, what do you want for dinner? And I'll be like, whatever you want. I just do not want French food. Or I just don't want, you know, several different items. Could that be an example of being decisive?

• Speaker #0

  For sure. Completely. And definitely a great place to start if that's something that's normally not what you do. And it'd be the same thing. It made me think the other day I was talking. I can't remember, but they were talking about not liking scary movies. So let's say you're with friends or a partner. What are we going to watch on TV tonight? As you say, I'll watch any I'm up for anything, but I don't like scary movies. So that's, again, so I would say yes. Even saying, when we say what we don't want, we are indicating what we want to some degree. So yes, for sure.

• Speaker #1

  They love scary movies. And then, so I read the article that people who, and this is not a scary movie, but people who watch TV shows like Dayline or any sort of documentary on Netflix that's about, you know, people dying. Okay. They were like, oh, that's a red flag. Like if you watch that to relax, there's not something wrong with you, but you know, your nervous system is very jacked up, right? When I try to relax, I'll put on like a haunted house, but I'm on my phone, you know, I'm kind of watching, but not really. What's up with that? Should I like nod you that? Like, is it good for me, bad for me, or is it completely irrelevant to my, you know, therapy journey and my nervous system?

• Speaker #0

  I mean. I think this is a complex question and I have a complicated answer, actually. I would say that, well, what I mean is, and I've heard about what you're talking about. It's definitely been in a lot of buzz, for sure. I've also heard a lot about women in particular watching True Crime and all the True Crime podcasts out there. And so what I will just say is it's complicated. I mean, is it? I do. I think it's a hard and fast answer. It's bad. We shouldn't do it. Or it's great and you should do it all the time. Like most things in life, as cliche as it might sound, I would say most things in life are fine in moderation. Right. And so, like, I think it's different for each person. You've got to reflect on why do I do this? I mean, I enjoy scary kind of creepy movies, psychological thrillers. It stimulates my mind. I find it exciting. I also am a person when people talk about they're scared for me, I can forego. It's an escape. Right. I know this is not reality. Watching it. You know, and so a lot of people like sci-fi. That's an escape. So, you know, I think it depends. If we were binging only this kind of stuff 12 hours a day every day, I mean, then I'd be concerned. Within reason and within as long as it's, you know, you can still sleep at night, I think within reason it's fine.

• Speaker #1

  I can sleep at night. I always think that whenever it's dark and nighttime in the U.S., I'm like, well, it's daylight some other country, right? Like. So I kind of like take myself out of my own life and escape to a different country that's like during daytime. But I would say recently I was talking to somebody about it and I was like, yeah, like I probably watch a scary movie. once a week. And this person was like, don't do that to yourself. And I was like, you're right. Like, maybe I am scared. Maybe like, you know, maybe that's why I'm on my phone. So maybe I am gradually, you know, leaning towards the moderation. I feel like I used to watch it way more than now. So.

• Speaker #0

  Well, you probably should do what many of us should do is put the phone down and do one activity. I mean, I'm sure you're familiar with this, like, you know, if our brain's being so overstimulated. because of so much we take in these days. So it might be a good experiment to try watching the movie without the phone for the whole two hours, you know, and see what that's like.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, I'm gonna try it tomorrow, not today. I feel like that's really hard.

• Speaker #0

  Okay.

• Speaker #1

  Well, okay, I don't know. Like, okay, let's not, let's go back to the original conversation and then we can talk more about the whole scary movie and watching movie in one setting rather than being distracted. So when it comes to, we briefly talked about people pleasing and people who shrink themselves in different situations. And on the other side of the equation, there are also people who buy into this belief you have to fake it to make it. That was a very popular belief five, six years ago. And I never believed it. I thought that was pretty. like hard for me to do because I'm the type of person if I don't like something or don't want to do something I physically cannot I can't even you know think about it but there are a lot of people who do build their identity on you know doing things that they don't want to and they have to pretend to be the strong one whether it's because the situation they're in or it's because they're just under a lot of pressure to perform and it does induce a lot of anxiety underneath So when people are pretending to be somebody in a way that they're not, what is actually doing to the anxiety that's underneath?

• Speaker #0

  Sure. And I mean, I think you talk also about the strong one, like, right. And that the idea, I just want to also say, being strong and having anxiety, like these are not mutually exclusive. You can be, you can have strength, you can even have confidence and still have some fear and anxiety. But we also, I 100% agree. I am not a proponent of fake it till you make it. I actually do not feel like that works and serves any of us. I like to work with clients on this concept I call a realistic positivity. So when we're starting to change some of these, you know, get away from fear and anxiety and closer to confidence and feel more secure in who we are. We want to think realistically, I say, and positively. I don't believe, you know, there's a lot of like, you know, fake it till you make it is I call. Unicorn pie in the sky positivity. You're feeling really scared or nervous, but you're like, I'm amazing. I'm going to do great. Like that is so distant from how one's feeling internally. I like to say there's no hook. There's nothing to hook onto to actually help somebody when it's so far away from how you truly feel. There's just no nothing to grab onto. What helps is realistic positivity is And for example, let me use body image. That's something I work with a fair amount. So somebody is really not comfortable in their skin and the way they look and their internal thoughts are, I don't like the way I look. I don't like my body. I'm ugly. You know, they're struggling with those negative thoughts. Fake it till you make it would say, tell yourself, I'm beautiful. I love myself, right? That is such a far reach, as I said before, from where they are. Realistic positivity would come in and it's a midpoint. It's a midpoint to start. And so you might say something like, I'm learning to love my body. I'm not there yet, but one day I will appreciate the way I look. Or today is the first day I'm going to say something positive. And so instead of fake it till you make it where there's no hook, somebody that wants to love themselves can say with authenticity and intentionality, I'm learning to love myself, right? So then you do that. And then you move. The midpoint moves further, right? The goalpost moves further. As that's starting to internalize, then we can build on that.

• Speaker #1

  That's great. And before we start recording, I was like, please do not. And this is not obviously towards you only, just in terms of my guests. I'm like, I don't do bypassing. I think like a lot of content, and this is not bashing anybody, but like some content on YouTube, on podcasts, it's very much like you have to do this one. You have to do things this one way and a lot of time like it's not very individualized and when people are not able to match up to the expectations that they just heard from somebody they don't even know, they feel like such a failure. And now there's like another layer of self-blame, like I'm just not good enough on top of what they were already struggling with. So I definitely appreciate this realistic positivity. But yesterday I was having dinner with a friend and she introduced a new method of, you know, the conversation was around manifestation, but I feel like it's related. And I'd love to get your take on her method.

• Speaker #0

  I'd love to hear.

• Speaker #1

  So she said the same thing. When you are feeling one way and then you try to whether rewire your brain or manifest something, you say, am this, this, that. And your body is like, no, you're not. Right. Like there's your body is not catching up to the words that you're saying. So she said, rather than say that as a statement, poses a question. So whether you say, I am beautiful. Say, why am I so beautiful?

• Speaker #0

  Okay.

• Speaker #1

  And let your body find the answer for you.

• Speaker #0

  Okay. Yeah.

• Speaker #1

  What's your thoughts on that? I mean, I know I just talked to you about it right now, but like, do you think that maybe it worked better for certain people?

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, I think, and I agree with you is that, you know, we, especially psychologists, we might have these general concepts and theories of how we know people can change and grow, but that you do have to individualize them. Because we're all built differently. Like one size fits all doesn't work for anyone, right? So I do really respect. So then leading to your question and your dinner with your friend, then of course, would maybe something like that be a better lead in for some people? Most certainly. I mean, very similarly, sometimes I will have when people let's still the same topic of learning to love their body or love body image and body self-love, I will have clients say, find one thing. And look in the mirror. I know people get uncomfortable with this. Look in the mirror. What is one thing that you could say positively about the way you look? And it's similar, maybe not the same, but similar to your friend and saying, why do I think I'm beautiful? Right? And so I like that idea of posing a question, right? And it's probably closer to that realistic positivity because you're exploring it. You're trying to find it. But the I am might feel like a goalpost that you're not to yet.

• Speaker #1

  Right. I mean, I tried this morning. I personally struggle with the way how I look too. And I mean, I don't really think my negative self-talk is as harsh or as horrendous as other people's. Some other people's. I don't want to generalize. But yeah, I struggle with this a lot where like, I don't think I look as good as I should be. You know, I feel like I should be more fed. um my skin needs to be better you know and so i think a lot of my negative self-talk is more just like i know where my potential could be at but my lifestyle is not supporting it and then i feel really shitty about my choices but then i'm like well i'm 33 i can still do it for like six more months and i'll drink juice every day so you know it is very complex complex matter and i This morning I woke up, I was like, why am I so beautiful? And I was like, I don't know.

• Speaker #0

  The answer was, I don't know today.

• Speaker #1

  No, no. The answer was, I actually did use my serum like I said I would. So yes, maybe, you know, small things, small things that matter and count.

• Speaker #0

  Totally. And, you know, it's both, this is complicated. I don't know if we want to go here, but I'll just touch on it briefly. Like, especially around, you know, body image and self-love. We're often psychologists looking on the internal external. So like you said, Sierra, I'm like, you might actually want to do something externally to make yourself feel a bit better. But we also have to be careful we're not waiting to kind of like or love ourselves or show our self-appreciation until that thing changes. So it's complicated. We have to, this is why I don't know if you're familiar. I'll just use this as an example. Like when clients might have a gastric bypass surgery and lose a lot of weight. They often have to work with, they have to have an eval with psychologists. They often are highly recommended to do therapy because you can also just change the external and the internal thoughts may or may not change. So we have to, you know, feeling more confident isn't about just the external. We always have to work on the internal in tandem at the same time too.

• Speaker #1

  Sure words have never been said. This is incredible. And let's talk about getting ready. A lot of people wait until they're ready to start a new life. I myself is on the same boat. Like I would wait to take my podcast to a certain level because I feel maybe I don't look as good. Maybe I'm not ready to be publicly recognized. Let me lose 30 pounds and maybe I'll feel more confident about the way I present myself. Maybe by then like my, you know, habits will match somebody who have a successful podcast. I think. human problems are human problems. No one is immune and it just show up differently. So my point here is that the people who might not have everything together, at least they have something that they kind of like put their focus on and they actually made it work, right? But then some of us are just like, everything has to be ready. If one thing is not clicking, I'm not doing it because I am working on myself, right? What's your take on that?

• Speaker #0

  So many things I could say, but I will start with, you know, when people say, well, I have to do this first and I'm waiting till I get here. I say, what are you waiting for? OK, that actually you've already begun, whether you realize it or not. OK, we how we show up in the world is based on experience and it's based on doing right. And we actually learn and grow by putting ourselves out there. So. The idea, even a podcast, if you look at the beginning, I mean, I follow different podcasts and it's fun. Maybe I am on somebody's like third year of listening and then I go back to their first year and maybe it does sound different, but there's still value from things at the beginning to the middle and the end. And actually, I think people that are really self-aware can own that, can own that, like, here's where I was. Maybe it wasn't as polished, but I still contributed something, right? I did something good and contributed something here. We learn by doing. As we said, we grow in our confidence by taking risk, okay? So if we just constantly wait, we will never launch. We will never get out there. We'll never contribute. And you also mentioned being together. I actually have a funny antidote. I had a teenage client recently ask me in session, and They're about to graduate high school. And they asked me this question, which I thought was quite insightful for a 17-year-old senior. And they asked me, they said, okay, when did you in life feel like you were together and you could balance it all? And I chuckled and said, still working on it. Like, we're all, and I did answer his question in a minute, but I mean, does anyone truly have it all together? And think about that. If we... We're fully balanced. We're fully ready. We're fully together. I don't know if many people would launch their business, their podcast, their start dating. So we have to do it. We can't wait for, because really what we're then seeking is perfection. And that to me is an example of perfectionism that we may not ever reach. Now, that being said, just so you know, I did answer this kid's question about like I think, you know, it took X, Y, and Z. I definitely feel more together now in my 40s than I did when I was 20. And here's a few steps to take to get there. I also remember working with a business coach many years ago as I was building my practice. And I don't know if you're familiar, but she quoted the idea of launch it broken, sit later, right? And so the concept is... And broken, some people react, especially perfectionists react to that. What, you're going to launch a product or podcast that's broken? Well, broken doesn't really mean it's not good. It just means that you have to take the risk and go out there. And you can always course correct and fix and adjust and mold later, right? And I feel like the people that are really successful in life, you see them doing this. They're not waiting. They're just doing it.

• Speaker #1

  I completely hear you. However, I have, I wanted to challenge the concept of waiting. And it's not because I was waiting. So I'm like highly defensive right now. But I would also say that sometimes I think people learn things differently.

• Speaker #0

  True.

• Speaker #1

  Some people learn things, it has to be by themselves and they have to process things in their own way and they analyze the lessons and they integrate the lessons. And some people learn it. from collaboration with other people. And this can kind of bleed into dating, starting a business, or, you know, repairs a relationship with their family, you know. Feel like people's journey are so different. And for the people who are, confident enough to launch something, I still feel the foundation was strong enough for them to take the leap.

• Speaker #0

  So, yes, maybe the product or the concept they're launching is broken and they're trying to get it better. But I would say there is still enough of like life experiences or data point they gathered for them to believe that this is something is worth fighting for. Like, for example, I wanted to start this podcast five, six years ago, but I was deeply depressed and I wanted to go into this. industry because I wanted to be famous and I wanted to be seen. And there was a much bigger issue that needed to be addressed before. And people always ask me, maybe, you know, by the time that you are somewhat healed, you're not going to want to do this. But fundamentally, I always believed I'm going to do this regardless. So I waited. I waited so this thing doesn't destroy me, right? So there's a... passion, there's a vision, but there's also I needed to be strong enough. So I'm just providing a different perspective where I don't want people to feel necessarily like, you know, today's the day, there's never, what's the word? The best day start was yesterday, the second best day start was today or something like that. I just, I think that people should have the core confidence, know who they are, and be able to manage their stress or the way how they deal with different situations before they start something that you know could potentially stress them out more

• Speaker #1

  I completely agree and it's okay to challenge me too that's just fine and I love different perspectives and you are right you bring up a good point is that and there's probably like you know that proximal state of success right like and I'm thinking of the standard bell curve. And, you know, if we, you know, I... brought up if we're waiting for perfection until we feel fully ready on all these levels, we may never launch and do what we need to do. And then, but you're right, you brought up kind of the opposite end of the spectrum. There are things that sometimes we have to work on. Like if you, for example, are in a depressed state and going through a rough time, that probably isn't the right time to launch something new. And so for most of us, it's kind of that flow state, finding, you know, the proximal state in the middle. We can't wait too long or we'll never do the thing. But we do need to do some work on ourselves, right? And to me, self-awareness is one of the biggest things that people can work on. I truly believe the most successful, content, happy people in life are the ones that are most self-aware. And you're an example of that. You knew you had that dream to do the podcast and launch it, but you knew you weren't ready. you you know, the self-awareness to say, I need to fix this part of myself or heal this part of myself before I do it. And then you're ready to go.

• Speaker #0

  I just don't want people to feel alone and lonely. So I tend to provide like a different side of story just also because, you know, obviously we all go through hardships and people deal with differently. And this is a question that I also want answers for is we talk about self-aware quite a bit. Self-aware is only one piece of the puzzle, right? I think integration to the body is a much longer process than self-aware. I think that we talk about something, and this appears a lot in talk therapy. I'm not, you know, talking shit about it. I'm just saying, yes, we talk about it, and we talk about it again. Sometimes I'm so, I'm embarrassed how many times I have to talk about a problem. Recently, I started somatic therapy. where it releases the trauma from your body.

• Speaker #1

  Yes.

• Speaker #0

  In your work, is there like a way how you help your clients to really embody this new version of themselves rather than it's always in their head?

• Speaker #1

  Exactly. Well, and I love that you brought up somatic work as well, because, you know, especially in therapy and toxicotherapy, such a big piece of it is about, you know, our intellect. our cognitions, right? Our thoughts. That's a lot of what you and I've talked about today, but there's this huge other piece about the body and somatically, how does it feel? And I often use the words, like we often don't want to make decisions in life just on our thoughts, right? Like how does the body feel? And so one way that I do this, if clients need to kind of make a really big decision, let's say for themselves, we talk about not just thinking about it, but paying attention. How does your body feel? Do you feel relaxed? Do you feel calm? Is your heart racing when you're thinking about this decision? And I often will have clients do things rather than... I mean, you can do this. And again, back to what we've said before, everybody's different. So how we approach this is a little different based on the person. Is there value of sitting down and thinking really hard and maybe making a pro-con list? Yes, for some and many people. But I often will tell people outside of that, let's get in touch with your body. Go on a walk, right? Like just, and I feel like walking is such a good example of active meditation, which could be active reflection. And then pay attention to how your body feels as you're thinking and reflecting on whatever decision you might need to make. Right. And so I feel like incorporating these two, the mind and the body and the soul, it's kind of all these things coming together to figure out making those choices for oneself.

• Speaker #0

  That's amazing. Now, people go through their sessions with you and they feel they are self-aware. They have the tools to... deal with real life challenges and their body is relaxed.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah.

• Speaker #0

  However, in certain situations, they still find themselves to be self-sabotaging, you know. And once again, I am still suffering from this. Help me feel. And this is part of the readiness, part of the bigger conversation, feeling ready to be seen, but not seen as somebody who we pretended to be, but as somebody who we authentically are. And I think there's a lack of confidence about like, is the person. person that I am good enough, right? And so for people who, you know, might be able to be as authentic as they can be in day-to-day life, but when it comes down to major accomplishments, they shy away at the last minute. Are there antidotes, how do you pronounce that? Antidotes? Antidotes? To help us to, you know, get to the other side of the journey.

• Speaker #1

  Well, I often, you know, we talk about the fear you alluded to this, like the fear of success, right? And the fear of success is also, you know, there's so correlated to the fear of failure. And I think some of what you're talking about there, I see this with a lot of clients where as somebody is working really hard, maybe they have a goal for whatever that may be for themselves and to be successful. And they want it, you know, whether it's education or time or we talked about being ready. They've done therapy. They've worked on being ready. And so let's say that they're getting really close to that goalpost of whatever the thing they wanted for success. What sometimes the self-sabotage is that I will see people get really close to that successful marker they have for themselves. And then fear of failure comes up because, you know, they're so closely related. And so what will happen is people will then, not everyone, but sometimes people, because of that fear and anxiety and... the anxiety of failing, people will then, so many ways we might self-sabotage, people will then stop putting in the effort. Or with a lot of times, like I'll see somebody, like let's say a college student, they're working really hard all semester and then they get to finals week and they don't even study. And so like there could be lots of examples of self-sabotages and then we will put in less effort right at the end because, and that's the self-sabotage, because then if we don't succeed and we do fail. then we have something to fall back on. And it's almost less scary and less shame if, well, I didn't put in my full effort and I didn't succeed, but that's why. But if somebody puts in, oh, this is why self-sabotage often happens. But if they put in all their effort, they do everything, and then we don't achieve the success, for a lot of people, that's a bigger letdown and a bigger fall, right? So in a lot of times, I mean, I believe this happens for most people on the subconscious, unconscious level. We're not planning and premeditating this, right? Most people don't want to purposely self-sabotage. So really life hacking and figuring that out, right, when people can identify that, that's when people start to kind of be able to conquer some of that self-sabotage and find more success.

• Speaker #0

  That's amazing. Well, thank you so much, Dr. Gusner. You've been so helpful and I feel like there's so many key points that I need to revisit myself and need to really look into some of the ways that I've been living my life. And you've been providing such a great insight. So for the listeners who want to work with you and find you online, what's the best way to reach out to you?

• Speaker #1

  Sure. My professional website is drgressner.com. I'm also on Instagram and it's DrMelissa. on Instagram. And I would love, like I said, I work with clients locally here in Denver in person, but I also work with clients online across, I think it's up to 43 states now. So telehealth therapy is huge these days. So that's another option as well.

• Speaker #0

  Well, thank you so much. And we hope to have you back very soon. Thank you so much for being here with me today on The Zen Podcast. If this episode resonated with you, make sure you're subscribed and leave a comment with your biggest takeaway. That's how we grow this community and get these conversations in front of more people who need them. And if somebody came to mind while you're listening, please do make sure to send this episode to them. You can also find me on TikTok, Instagram, YouTube, Apple Podcasts. and Spotify, all linked below. Until next time, stay sharp, stay intentional, and be good.