Transcription

• Speaker #0

  Have you ever had a big dream and just wondered, when will it be my turn? You see everybody else around you doing something that you want to do, and you just feel like you can't get close to it, like you can't break through, like you're pressing your face up against the glass, but you can't understand why there isn't just a door there that you could open up and walk through. What if your dreams were just delayed, not denied? Today, I am resharing one of my very favorite conversations I ever had on the podcast with the Grammy award-winning artist Lettucey. Lettucey is an iconic once-in-a-lifetime talent and at the time we recorded this interview, believe it or not, she had never won a Grammy and we talked about her struggles in the music business in this interview and how she'd have to fight just to be seen when again she is such an iconic once-in-a-lifetime talent and I think that there's many of you out there that are just jewels, that are doing your thing, that are having success in your industry, but still feel like you're fighting to be seen and waiting to be seen in many ways. And I remember when Lettucey finally won that Grammy after she had come on the podcast in 2021, she won the Grammy because this conversation happened in 2020. And one of her mentors wrote in the comments, see what I told you, delayed, not denied. And that has always stuck with me ever since then. And this conversation with her, she is so heart-centered, so loving. She had just recently, before this conversation, taken back her work and decided to start doing work independently. And I know you're going to get so much out of this. It's one of my favorite conversations ever, as I let you know. And it means a lot to me to share it with you now because I just put out my new release, Genie in a Bottle. Go stream it if you haven't already. And she's always been just somebody I look to as a leader in this industry. Somebody who's uplifting. After we finished our conversation, she asked me to send her my music. She's just a once in a lifetime talent, but also human being. So enjoy this conversation with the Grammy award winning artist and icon Lettucey about how to heal yourself first, write your own story and sing until they get it. All right, here it is.

• Speaker #1

  Hello and welcome to Unleash Your Inner Creative with Lauren LaGrasso. My name is Lauren LaGrasso and this show is meant to help you make creativity the filter for your life, redefine your relationship with fear by taking it out of the driver's seat, step more fully into the essence of who you are, and claim your right to have a dream and take up space. My guest today is just a truly special human being, artist, writer, producer, advocate, and businesswoman. And I am so... honored to share her story with you. Her name is Lettice. Some of her accolades include being a 12-time Grammy-nominated powerhouse vocalist, her three Soul Train Music Awards, an NAACP Theater Award, and six NAACP Image Award nominations. Lettice and I sat down two weeks ago, the day before her most recent album, The Wild Card, came out. I wanted to have her on my show because of her incredible talent and unbreakable spirit. In addition, she is one of the warmest people I've ever had the pleasure of talking to. It's not easy to be as kind as she is, just like being a normal human being walking the earth, let alone while building a career in the music industry. Talking with her showed me that you can maintain your warmth and light and be successful in a creative industry. They're not mutually exclusive. It was the exact message I needed to hear right now, and I hope it also resonates with you. From our conversation, you'll also learn how to develop stronger boundaries, keep going when the odds are against you, deal with creative monsters who disrupt your path, craft a truly powerful cover song, and some really cool insider things about singing that you might not know, how to take activism into your art, the importance of self-care for creatives, how to own your greatness, and recycle your fear. Now here she is. Let us see.

• Speaker #2

  When you were putting out your first book, you did this really beautiful, open conversation about it. And you were talking about this moment when you'd been in the industry for a while, you put out a couple albums independently, you really were getting great reception on your voice, but the industry wasn't open to your look at the time. And you really wanted to give up. You moved in with your friend Richard, you were sleeping on his floor, and... That's a moment in a lot of creatives journey that I call the creative crossroads, which is basically when we have the option to either like give everything up and just throw in the towel or double down on our faith. ask God for the strength and go into a different direction. And so I'm wondering, how did you choose to keep going in that moment when you felt like you didn't have anything? How did you keep going toward your dream?

• Speaker #3

  A lot of it had to do with having my mom there and having music, honestly, to vent through. Because the song All Right came about because of that moment of... really just exhaustion of giving up. But you think maybe if I try a little bit harder, or if I do it a little different, but the real turning point was where I really wanted to quit was my mom, just talking to her saying, you know, I can't, I think I'm just gonna teach because things are a little bit more sturdy than this. And they just don't want me my voice is so much and I'm not what their version of beauty is. And so, change who I am other than not eat. And dress up the way they want me to, but I won't be myself. You know what I'm saying? And if they can't do that, then I'll just quit and teach somebody else who wants to go through all that. And she said, you're gonna be all right. It's just a turning point. Don't let someone else dictate who you are. You're beautiful. And my mom always... told her girls how magnificent we are in our talents and our crafts. Being from New Orleans, mothers there, they just treat their children like royalty. To have your legacy move forward is a huge thing for a Southern woman. I don't know about everybody else. I just know about my culture and Black culture. That's a big thing. And so when you go into the world, they say something different about you. And trying to navigate through that is no joke. That's why you need prayer. You need great parents. You need somebody that's going to uplift you. Even if it's one person. And sometimes you're alone in it. And that's where the prayer part comes in. And that's where my gift has been so much bigger than me. But I'm just a vessel for it to come through. So I know I learned later that I just have to sing until they get it. Just sing until they get it. Don't wait for people to acknowledge me or give me what I'm supposed to get as a great singer. Just know that I am and keep going until they get it. I have this wonderful gift. I've never been so grateful to have it. And then I made it about me, but it's not about them. And it's not about me. It's how people are going to be anyway, humans.

• Speaker #2

  I mean, I love the piece about your mom. There's actually an article I read about you on Oprah.com. And it said, as a kid, Lettucey watched her mother's local R&B group rehearse in the living room of their New Orleans home. And you said, my mom was my Michael Jackson. I emulated her voice, her poses, everything she did. And that's just so important because it's, as we know, it's hard enough to pursue a creative career when you do have that kind of support. But when you don't, it's 10 times harder. And you did acknowledge that. But for somebody who's like in that position, like I also had a mom like yours where, you know, she said to me, if you, if you give up on yourself, it will break my heart. And in the times when I didn't think I could keep going, knowing that there was one person who believed in me that much gave me the faith to keep going. But for those people that don't, what would be your advice for them? I know you said to engage your faith, but like, how do you engage your faith when you feel so down and out? And that's when we need it the most, but sometimes it's hardest to connect to them.

• Speaker #3

  It depends on the situation, but all the time, it is an inward battle within you. It is you saving yourself. You have to think about what your worth is to you and find people who think you're worthy of all the great things you desire. Sometimes journaling, we have a choice. We do have a choice. Sometimes it's medical. Sometimes you might need help. medically. You might have to go to the doctor and meeting a psychiatrist to help you with your feelings. To me, if we hold everything inside our body, that's where we're in trouble. So writing it out and getting it out of your body and saying it out loud or looking into the mirror and looking at you today as you are and accepting that, see it for what it is and love on you. Because in order for me to... feel good about myself, I have to love myself. I can't look for that from someone else. Like, I can't look for you to love me. I have to look for me to love me. And when I love myself, I've learned that. look at me and accept all my flaws and all my imperfections and know that I'm growing and trying to get better and love on me regardless of all those things. It's funny, all the things that I desire come to me. And I learned that through when I worked on the album, The Truth. When I started fixing my body, I learned that I need physical activity to make my mental activity better. I learned that I need to keep journaling like I used to when I was a little girl to get all my feelings out. Because I grew up in a home that was very dysfunctional and we couldn't really say how we felt. I had to write it out or sing it out or pretend it out. And I stopped doing that and using food as a reason to get rid of my feelings. Everybody does something different. You dig? So it takes a while. As an individual, you have to find out what your quirks are and what your things you need to work on are. And where does it come from? Is it some childhood trauma? Where's the trauma from? Find out what the hurt is and figure out how to heal it. Because you can't be your best hurting all the time. But there are some great dysfunctional songwriters and dysfunctionals out there too. Jeff Buckley's incredible. That's one of my favorite artists. They had a lot of stuff going on with their legacy. You know what I'm saying? It's a lot of trauma, but they got it out some kind of way where we can enjoy the beauty of that. Some of my darkest songs where I'm in my most saddest moments are some of my greatest material. Some of my greatest songs that are real happy are because I just I wrote them when I wasn't feeling good. You know what I mean? Because I wanted to be happy. So artists, you can't count us. We're a weird breed. But what we do need to do is always heal our hurt. And it takes forever. Never stop healing. But know that it's okay during your healing process. You don't have to be perfect. And that's the problem with our industry. We have to be perfect. They want us to be perfect. But I decided, look, this is what you get. You like it, you don't. Move on.

• Speaker #2

  I love it. I mean, I just think your story is so incredible. There's about a million things you just said that I want to break down. Uh, no, no, it's so good. So, okay. You talked about lessons and like how literally it's forever. And that's something that I talk about almost every episode. It's never like we come to a certain moment. I'm like, I'm completely healed. Everything's fine. I've got nowhere left to go. So I love that. And I think that our biggest lesson is something we keep coming back to and whittling away at time and time again. So I'm curious, what do you think your biggest lesson is in life and how are you currently working on it?

• Speaker #3

  My biggest lesson is not letting the world dictate who I am. I'm always condescent of that, like focused on it, because I easily want to people please. And you just cannot do it. Like, it's impossible to do that every day, is to make sure everybody likes you. You just cannot do it. And so for me, oh, they don't like me, so let me tell them I see them. No, I don't have to see. They don't have to see that I see them. And what does that comment do for me? And because we're on social media, everybody has an opinion about your hard work. They're not even artists. They don't even play a piano. They don't sing. They don't sit in your seat. I have my seat. And they don't even do nowhere near what I do. But they have an opinion about it like they do. So I can't let that energy. be so important to me. What's important to me is that I know who I am every day. I wake up and I believe in what I'm doing and it's doing good work. I want to leave behind legacy. I want to leave behind great work. Some of us don't have things to show our legacy. Some of us have our talent. And that's the part that I'm holding on to that one day a new person will discover legacy and say, whoa, she has all this music. from jazz to R&B to soul. And she sang with Vince Gill on this day, or she sang with Keb Moe, or you know what I mean? I want to have that. Like I said, I can't, I'm always working on that line that my parents weren't able to finish. So I'm finishing and completing, and I'm continuing the line that they started. Not just them, but the... the line that I decided I wanted to be a part of as well.

• Speaker #2

  Yeah. And I love that too, because you can heal all the way up the bloodline and down the bloodline when you do that. When you say like, you know what, this doesn't have to be our story. I say that to my mom all the time. Like we don't have to live like this. We could actually change the pattern now. It's so powerful that you're speaking that and that you're sharing that with your existence and your music and everything. You talked in this interview you did with Lonnie Love about how you get called a lot for tributes. And it was really interesting because you're like, I say no to them. And then my manager's like, don't say no. They're not going to ask you anymore. So you end up saying yes. And I think boundaries, especially as women, it's something, and especially as female creatives, it's something that's really hard for us to set because you work so hard for your career. There was times when people wouldn't say yes to you. And now it's so hard to work yourself up to say no, even though you've earned that. How are you at in your relationship?

• Speaker #3

  You're on the same page, ma'am. I'm sorry. Get it.

• Speaker #2

  No, I do. And it's like, it's so, I mean, I'm nowhere near to where you are, but like the fact that you is accomplished as you are still are struggling with it shows how difficult it is for us to set boundaries. Where are you at in your relationship with no, and how are you working on getting better?

• Speaker #3

  I'm saver now. And I love saying I am the phrase. I am those two words. That's. phrase and that word is like a lifesaver for me. I am this and I know it. And then when I say I am, I know that I am. And the no, when I say no, it's nice. It's a beautiful thing to say because I, like I said, I'm a people pleaser. I was the middle child. I wanted to make sure everybody was happy and keep balance, but it's impossible. So, and when you get older it just comes out naturally it's no i'm not older my mom would say when you get older you're gonna you're gonna love it because there's things you just don't want to do anymore you just say no easily and it's true i didn't get that until now and i love i love the power in it it's not mean i thought it would be a mean thing but no it's actually self-care yeah actually letting the other person have to do what they're destined to do. That opportunity is for someone else. It might not be for me all the time. So my no is a good thing because I might have to do something. And it always works out like that because I always pray on it before I say it, or sometime I just say it. I know it in my heart, but that's not the right thing for me. But I love doing tributes. I just don't like doing them all the time. I know I'm good at those because I honored the... person I'm singing it to about or their song. I take very much pride in music, in performing music. I study my butt off. I study the original because I always think the original is still the best because it was the first.

• Speaker #2

  Yeah. I loved what you said with Lonnie, where you said you try to stick to what they did to honor what they did for the first verse and the chorus, and then you make it your own in the second verse. I've never heard anyone else say that.

• Speaker #3

  Yeah. People just take the whole song and do whatever they want but it's not your song like it says you're doing a tribute to someone so make sure they're in the room as well and that's why everybody calls me to do their tributes I'm like I love you but that's a hard song and I'm gonna need time with that y'all want that tomorrow you know what I mean yeah then you gotta study because I kind of know the song don't mean I know it in my body I gotta learn the way you did it

• Speaker #2

  I love that. So can you explain for a non-singer, what is the difference between knowing a song and knowing it in your body, like knowing it on a cellular level?

• Speaker #3

  For me, say for instance, like I'm a huge Chaka Khan fan. Chaka Khan assumed that I knew all her songs and she would just throw the mic to me. But I knew them like, do you know what's where she goes through the fire? I look in your eyes and I can see a love so dangerously. And then what's this part? You know what I mean? Yeah. That's knowing the song. Like, you know pieces of it because that's your favorite song, but you know just the parts you really love to sing. I have to, when I have to tribute her, I have to know that part I don't know. I just skip to the through the. That's when I come in and sing. I know that part. But it's like when you're singing along to a song, either you learn in it. right away because you want to know it, that's a fan. Fans know it like that. I'm a fan in a way that kind of does music, so I don't want to learn all the songs. I just want to sing, get to the part I know of the most. That's the difference between knowing the song and actually embodying it. But when I had to tribute her, I had to learn the whole thing. I'm up there, I look in your eyes. And what does she do? that I can see. Little notes. What are those little notes? I have to learn those phrases to know what she did on them and do them exactly. That's what I do. I study exactly how the singer does it. And then I add me. What part, instead of doing that fall on the second verse, how do I add me? You tell me you're gonna play it smart. And I'm gonna go. You tell me you're gonna play it smart. You get what I mean? Yeah. A little change means I'm going to add a little bit of lettuces now so that I can be me and not have to copy her, but still tribute her. And that's the studying part is where do I put myself into the equation after I've studied what the master did and tribute them in a way that feels nicely like a hug. Thank you for allowing me to tribute you and honor you. and also let me be myself through your song. I have to sit here for hours and really digest the song like that. And then it's in my body. Then I'm looking for the right clothes that look like me and kind of her. You know what I mean? It's like sitting in the middle of something.

• Speaker #2

  Ooh, I love that image.

• Speaker #3

  Yeah. The middle of you and the middle of the other person. You know what I mean? Honoring them in that way. One time I attribute to Patti LaBelle. And I had my nails done and this real dramatic flare in the back of my coat jacket because that's something she would have done. The difference is it would have probably been a little shorter or maybe a little longer. But I would have mine like in the middle of that. You dig? I dig. So it's like changing it, like honoring them visually as an artist and also as a vocalist. And she loved it. She loved it. She's one of my... My greatest mentors, and Prince would tell me all the time, have your nails done like Patty. He just saw me as little Patty. I just know he did because he always referenced her.

• Speaker #2

  What was Prince like?

• Speaker #3

  Oh, it was amazing working with him. Amazing. He studied, too. He was a studier. He understood all kinds of music and understood all kinds of artists and what they wore and how they, the music. He studied. So they knew that I studied. because they would look at me and say you've studied your music yeah i had to hardcore you had to get classical i know classical i know my mom listened to patsy klein and willie nelson was her favorite it's like my household was crazy and then my dad would have funk music my stepdad would listen to funk and then i had jazz and i had straight mahalia jackson at my great aunt house so you just it's all over the place that's being from new orleans though you're gonna learn all kinds of styles of music. And then when we moved to Oakland, it's the same thing. It's like,

• Speaker #2

  yeah,

• Speaker #3

  musical gumbo going to study. Yeah, exactly. It's going to jambalaya up girl.

• Speaker #2

  I love that too, because it's like, it's cool to kind of trace the lines of your musical lineage because you mentioned you do all these different styles, your jazz, your R&B, your soul throughout the course of your career. And I'm sure this has happened to you, but like, how often have people been like, so what genre are you and how do you deal with that? It's so annoying.

• Speaker #3

  Now I just stick to soul music. It's safer.

• Speaker #2

  Yeah.

• Speaker #3

  It can mean anything. It can mean one thing to you. And I say my kind of soul. I don't say soul music, but I say soul music so they can relate. But I say my kind of soul. That's where I'm at with the wild card. Everything else has been descriptive. I've never described myself to people. I just say that I'm all the things I've learned. and all the things I love. And let the press decide and put me in the box to sell me. But now that I'm a record label again, I own myself, I have to describe it. So describe it and say that I'm a soul artist. But that doesn't mean I'm your version of soul. Because very quickly, I could turn that into jazz. I'm New Orleans. I'm Oakland. I'm all mixed up and I'm proud of it because One day you'll see me on stage with one person and another person from a different genre. It's just how I am. I did classical in front of my R&B friends and they were blown away. They never knew I did classical. We were at Carnegie Hall and their faces sitting in the middle watching me perform. It was for the Recording Academy and all my friends were there. And we had to do this show with Lang honoring, I forgot his name, Bernstein. Oh, yeah. Leonard. We had to do that. Yeah, Leonard Bernstein.

• Speaker #2

  Good old Lenny.

• Speaker #3

  Man, it was so much fun, and I ended up doing a song. I can't remember the song. I always learn it and then forget it. But I did the song, and I had to sing it, like, in an operatic kind of way. And my friends were looking like, we didn't know you could do that. I was laughing afterwards because they were just shocked. They were like, Led, it was so beautiful. But we never knew you could do that. I said, no one ever calls me for those gigs. But when I do them, I make sure I do them well, you know?

• Speaker #2

  There's something so powerful in singing in that kind of voice, though, because it's just a completely different realm of your body and your brain. I mean, what is the difference for you physically when you're singing in that beautiful operatic? I'm guessing it's more of a head voice for you versus when you're singing in your normal artist voice.

• Speaker #3

  I'm a mental support. soprano in the opera world. And I can't sing anything else but that when I'm doing it. Like, I can't do a side gig and sing R&B, which is all throaty and chesty. You know, I have to run from those shows during the time that I'm doing all the opera or Broadway than that too. So I've had to just stop everything else and focus solely on. that style of music so that my voice can sound clear. I don't talk a lot. I don't laugh hard. When I have to sing that style, I just completely shut down from the rest of it or monitor it really well, like space it out. So like when I did, I wrote a play called The Legend of Little Girl Blue about myself and Nina Simone and my mom. And I had to sing eight shows a week. That was so hard. But I didn't do anything else but that. And I had 16 songs in the show. Wow. And it was sold out,

• Speaker #2

  right?

• Speaker #3

  Sold out every night. Sold out. I was supposed to do seven days. I ended up doing 19 shows around Christmas. And it was sold out. And they're going to do it again next year. The discipline. It takes great discipline. Broadway, classical, or anything that has to do with not. singing in the throat area or the chest. And if you do use that voice, it has to be clear as a bell. Right. You have to be clear. So my food, my exercise, everything, all that changed. Complete discipline. Yeah. You'd have to.

• Speaker #2

  For somebody who is in a mode of creativity where it takes that kind of a discipline, like what do you recommend for them to do besides those physical things? Like what kind of mental practice were you under during that time?

• Speaker #3

  Sleep as much as possible. The Artist's Way is a great book by Julia Cameron. I love that book. So I would revisit that. And I would also practice speaking to myself about how wonderful I am. Because when we listen to critiques and we look for approval in any of our movement as creators, we have to tell ourselves. how great we are before the audience says, or tell yourself where you suck. It sounds so crazy and weird what I just said, but honestly say it to yourself first.

• Speaker #2

  Yeah.

• Speaker #3

  And because then it doesn't own you.

• Speaker #2

  It doesn't own you. Yeah.

• Speaker #3

  Say it to yourself and, and then get rid of it. You know what I'm saying? Say it to yourself and fix it. Get rid of it. Do whatever you got to do. And because, listen, when by the time people get my product and my music, I've already beat myself up before you even got it. I've already thought of all the stuff you're going to say. I've already done that. I'm already immune to what's going to come next, possibly come next. I've already beat myself up so bad. It's my producer reminded me at the end of the album, my producer X right out, he said. You drove me crazy at the end. You were being so critical on yourself. And I said, yeah, because it's at the end. And I want to make sure before I leave that I've done and exhausted all the possibilities of it being a horrible thing that I'm doing. Before it's done, before anyone else says it, you know what I mean?

• Speaker #2

  Yeah.

• Speaker #3

  So those are the things I would do is tell myself you belong. Hey, hey, you belong here. Someone asked you to be here. It's sold because of you, what you are bringing.

• Speaker #0

  to this your gift is asked for you to do it go out there and you nail it those are the things i would tell myself because i can you someone asked you to be in that room you belong in the room oh my god i can't believe that i'm here no believe it you're here you know what i mean you're here someone said let us see can you come here prince asked for you patty asked to talk to you they asked to talk

• Speaker #1

  to you do you get what I mean oh yeah it's it's clear but it's funny like we can just be so in our own experience that we can't zoom out even a little bit to see how amazing everything really is yeah well you'll look back later it's like for women when we look and

• Speaker #0

  at the time we thought we were really overweight and then we look back man I can't be that skinny again yeah literally every time so now I'm just like I am thin great doing a great job

• Speaker #1

  I'm just getting ahead of it

• Speaker #0

  That's all I'm saying. It's like, enjoy where you are. Enjoy where you are. Enjoy. You know how many moments I missed beating myself up? I missed so much stuff, like going to the Grammys and talking to Taylor Swift. I was so freaking out, nervous. And I forgot to enjoy it. It's like, oh, yeah, you know, I was just hanging out. Even though Amy Winehouse won, at least I was here. You know what I mean?

• Speaker #1

  I mean, yeah, you've been nominated. basically millions of times at this point. You're incredible. I'm curious for that kind of thing, because you are so accomplished, you've done so many different things. How do you hold those awards? Like, do you hold them as something you really, really want to get? Or are you okay just like being with the work and whatever happens, happens?

• Speaker #0

  Okay, with whatever happens. After 2009 is when I finally let that whole... thing of wanting it to happen go. If it happens, it just happens. Like, I don't chase that anymore. Please, God, let that happen. I don't pray for that. I pray for a great, solid project that people heard and my peers hear it and it's worthy of being nominated. So that's great. If it gets more than that, that's not up to me. And every album, I'm getting further and further. So those are the bright moments for me. I love the journey. And so along that way, if a Grammy, I want one, I want it to collect dust at my house. You know what I mean? I want it.

• Speaker #1

  It's got to go somewhere. Why not your house?

• Speaker #0

  It's awesome. But honestly, I don't, it's not my focus. My focus now, did I make a great album? Did I do a great LP that's going to be timeless and add to my legacy? Yes. It's like I'm adding a piece of jewelry every time. And so for me, that's where I'm at. That's where I'm at.

• Speaker #1

  And that's a great place to be. And the answer is yes, you did make a great album. This album, The Wild Card that comes out on August 28th. The date is very important. It was the day that Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. delivered his iconic I Had a Dream speech. Barack Obama accepted his nomination for the presidency and slavery was abolished in the UK. So tell me about this album. why you chose to put it out on this date and what the music means to you.

• Speaker #0

  I wanted the date to be sooner and we couldn't get it out sooner because it wasn't finished and then COVID happened. So definitely the date had to be August 28th. And if it didn't go out to August 28th, then it would be next year that I would put it out. So it was, I was contemplating whether to wait or not. And then I looked up. the date out of the blue and saw all these things that have happened this whole week of August. The last week of August so much has happened and the 28th was the the biggest date and I said whoa the the whole thing of that you know what I mean was mind-blowing. It's huge it's a huge opportunity to have another historic moment on the last week of August but especially August 28th. So I said, okay, let's keep going with our plan. Because COVID and nothing is going to stop me from putting this album out. People need it even more now. They're going to listen more because they're not in such a hurry. They're at home. So they're going to need something to get away to. And why not get away to my music? We're going to put it out tomorrow. It comes out and I'm excited about it. The name, I had the name of the album LP way before. I recorded, I had, I did the photo shoot before I recorded. Like I knew how I wanted to feel and look image wise. And I knew the sound. I was looking for it. So I'm very proud of it. The last two songs were the hardest because I had to record everything at home. I had to make a little studio. I had to sing, make a little booth in my closet. I'm putting up things and engineering myself, waiting for my microphone to get here at home. It was crazy. I made a little makeshift studio and did it. It came out great. I was proud of myself. I reminded myself that you did this. When you did your first album as an independent artist, you were interning at a studio. So remember who you are, you know? So this.

• Speaker #1

  That's beautiful. It's wonderful. Circle moment.

• Speaker #0

  Exactly. And then I'm independent again.

• Speaker #1

  Hell yeah.

• Speaker #0

  My own music. It's like crazy. Like everything feels like nothing can make me feel bad about tomorrow. Like nothing. I only thing I'd be sad about is how the world is responding to black life. That's the only thing. But I still feel proud of what I'm contributing to this crazy time. It's historic. And this is a year of accountability. We all have to look at ourselves and our own stuff and enjoy where we are in our growth. And also look at the people around you who aren't growing and say, that's not going to add to my life. You know? Yeah. Make sure you're adding to your life. Yeah.

• Speaker #1

  Well, I mean, so much from that is just so beautiful. I think that you putting this music out at this time is no mistake. Spreading your joy, your message, your voice saying, I am here now as a black woman is so powerful. Like it brings tears to my eyes and it's so important. You also spoke with, I think it was with Lonnie. I watched a few different interviews, but you spoke about how important it is for women, but especially black women to tell their stories. And it's like you stepping out right now. is encouraging so many other women out there to know that they can also, they have a voice, first of all, and that they can own that voice and fully claim the power of who they are. So for artists who are out there right now and are seeing the things that are going on in the world, I know you mentioned Nina Simone. She's just an icon for this kind of thing. But how do you advise artists and anyone out there to channel their pain and turn it into purpose and take activism into their art?

• Speaker #0

  If it's not, being an activist is not your thing, do small deeds of good things or good trouble, as John Lewis would say. See something that you can change that's within your grasp for you, that's comfortable for you. For instance, like if a family member doesn't understand, find a way to explain to them that's comfortable and not putting them on blast or making them feel bad. about what they believe, but have a conversation. Or don't just ignore things. Tell them that how important all of our brothers and sisters are, especially the Black lives. With creatives, because people expect us to heal them, make sure you take time to heal yourself. Like, when this first happened, everybody wanted creatives to start just singing a song. You know? I'm more out, too. I don't have anything. So I'm going to be still. Sometimes for creatives, it's best for us to stay still for a minute, get our bearings, heal ourselves. And that process, our jobs are in trouble. How are we going to take care of our bills and our family and things? So we're worried too. So take a moment to catch a breath and figure out how to deal with what's coming. Because this is a lot for everyone. But they always ask us to come up. and rescue everybody. But I'm also like, how are we going to pay our bills? How am I going to pay for this? You know, those are the things that creatives are thinking about right now. How to just sustain and live without gigging, without going anywhere, without a cash app. I need to get a cash app. Now that I'm thinking about it.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, seriously, let's get that cash app posted everywhere.

• Speaker #0

  There's a lot of things we're all worried about that we don't have. any answers for. So we have to wait till things play out. And it depends on how politically this thing turns. So all I can say is do the hard work and heal. Make sure you make in time for your mental peace, your physical peace. Work out. Do something to not go bananas. That's for everybody. Because if you're mean, you're going to spread that to me on the street. Or if we see each other in line with our mask on. just right heal yourself don't spread that those things figure out some other way to get it right get it on track and it's harder now because the world is acting just a damn donkey in 2020 i don't what the hell it's always been here it's just been in an abrupt it's just exposed now that's what i said it's like everything that was hiding it wasn't even hiding it was pretty much in plain sight but it was like just beneath

• Speaker #1

  the surface. And now it's like, here I am. It's like exploding. And it's demanding that we deal with it.

• Speaker #0

  And if we don't,

• Speaker #1

  everything actually probably will explode.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. And we have to, it's accountability. It's transparency. It's, hey, this is, this keeps happening and you can run from it all you want. And our leadership, it starts with leadership. Our leadership isn't guiding things very nicely at all. It's pretty bad. We need better leadership to guide us in a different way. And it needs to start at home. And the fact that we had to be home. So if your home is all messed up, it's going to show. You know what I mean? Everything starts at home. So fix it there first before you try to tell someone else how to fix things. And that's where I've always been. Let me fix myself. I'm spreading music to people. So let me make sure I'm okay.

• Speaker #1

  very wise yeah the artist has to heal her him their self first it's really important i always say trauma has legs like it doesn't end with you so no if you don't take care of it it's gonna walk right into somebody else or maybe run and

• Speaker #0

  that's not fair so deal with it because you're my new friend lauren you're my friend i love you so much though you get it man you get it Well,

• Speaker #1

  speaking of getting it, okay, there was something else you said to Lonnie that blew me away, so I have to read this to you. You talked about, you were talking about your book, the one that you put out recently, the one you self-published, which, by the way.

• Speaker #0

  Don't ever lose your walk.

• Speaker #1

  Don't ever lose your walk. Yeah. And you were talking about that, and there was this part where you go, and I said, here come the clowns. Was that it? What was the phrase?

• Speaker #0

  Yes, the clowns. The clowns. The clowns, yes.

• Speaker #1

  Okay, this is such a thing. I want to try to find this exact quote because I wrote it down. So you say, oh, when the circus comes around. Yes,

• Speaker #0

  when the circus comes around.

• Speaker #1

  What does this mean? And what does it mean for our journey as creatives, but also just as humans? Because this happens a lot.

• Speaker #0

  There are people who will want to give you the world. I said it like you're on your journey. You're on your walk, your journey, and you're focused and you have all the things you need for it. And then. Sometimes you get a little tired, like you get tired of being the leader and looking for the next step and going along your way. And so there's these people that are like fun and they have these clown masks on and they're awesome. They're like bright things to say. They give you cotton candy. They make you feel like a little kid and that they're going to take care of everything and show you all these fun, magical things. And then all of a sudden you're off your path. You got off track and you're at the circus and the circus comes around and you're walking around and you're getting on all these rides and things and stuff. And next thing you know, they didn't took all your stuff. Gone. And then their masks come off. And when you ask them, where's my where's my stuff? You know, there are people who come like a circus into your life. There are clowns. come around and they smile at you and say all these great perfect things in your life to take things away from you and they disguise themselves in religion they disguise themselves in in perfect ways that you whatever caters to you and that's happened to me a lot where I met people that disguise themselves as good people but they're really not they're there to take from you and I think it's only happened like twice So you have to be careful of those people when you have a big light, especially when you have a big light and talent and a big heart. When you have a big heart because you care about people, about humans, you have to be careful people know this weakness in you. They find it, they look for it, and they want it, and they want to control it. And that's how they steal our girls, our kids, and everything, and our money and everything. So you have to be careful of those people. That's just what they do. They're masters at it. And it's not me being mean. It's just part of our journey as creatives or as humans.

• Speaker #1

  It's not you being mean at all. It's you being observant and saying, I can take care of myself. Actually, what you sold me was a lie and I know the truth and I'm going to hone into that truth and go back to my trust in God. And you were just like a false idol this whole time. I just couldn't see it.

• Speaker #0

  And it's not our fault. We're excited. We're trying. We love it. We're excited because we're in the circus. We're like seeing all the fun stuff and they're disguising things and they're putting up mirrors so you can't see the truth. It's like. Like the whiz at the end of the story is not really the whiz. It's like you figure it out. But don't be mad at yourself because you couldn't see it. You were in La Land. You were excited.

• Speaker #1

  When you've gotten out of one of those circus type situations, like what was the first step you took to get back to yourself?

• Speaker #0

  I let myself be angry. I let myself be disappointed in myself. I let myself cry and mope around for a little bit. I gave myself maybe three months, and then I got myself together. And it took my husband to really go, come on, let's go for a walk, an actual walk to get myself together, because I feel angry at myself. How could I not see this? How can I not see this person or what they did to me? And I talk about it in my book in Chapter 7 when the circus comes around. It's like, what do I do with this? And I actually had to get air. I had to breathe. And then let myself mourn the situation and then have a plan. I wrote down what I'm going to do to turn this around and make it better. And it never got better until I stopped fighting that person. I just said, let him have it. Let him have it. Because at the end of this, I'm going to have me back. That's all that matters. At some point, he's going to stop and I'm going to have me back. And that's what happened.

• Speaker #1

  Right.

• Speaker #0

  When you stop fighting to get what you want and make it your way, that's when it's better. Let them have that because I'm going to get something better. And I got it. I got my freedom. I got a new book out of it. I got myself back because I was so mad that I just wanted them to hurt like they hurt me. It does nothing but hurt yourself.

• Speaker #1

  Can I tell you something that my friend told me that really helped me through a situation like that? She said, okay, I don't know if this is true, but I like to think it is. When we die, we have to have a life review with God. And in that life review, we have to feel everything we've ever made anybody else feel, good or bad. And this was happening when I was going through a really abusive moment and leaving that situation. And so it just made me realize I don't have to do a thing because someday they're going to feel it. And they're going to know it. And so I don't have to click the finger. Like, they're going to feel everything. And they'll know exactly what they did. Even if it's in, like, afterlife.

• Speaker #0

  It's true.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah.

• Speaker #0

  Just walk away. My mom used to say, don't go backwards. Go forward. Nothing back there is for you. Because going back to fix it or to even get them to accept their part in it does nothing.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, exactly. It's not going to bring you closure.

• Speaker #0

  No, your success is what will be all you need to say. That's all you need to say. And she's right. So I'm very happy with the choice. The choices I made when people have done me wrong. I just completely send them one letter or one note and tell them who they are and that I saw them. And now whatever happens, they're going to have to deal with karma. Karma comes around. And then that's it. And I let it go right there. And then I move on to what I have to do for me to heal myself.

• Speaker #1

  Right.

• Speaker #0

  And the hope that I don't carry it into the other business.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah. You got to cut the energetic cord.

• Speaker #0

  Hold on to my niceness and my humanness. I don't want to lose that. Yeah.

• Speaker #1

  It's so hard when you have been hurt, but it's like, you gotta just keep engaging and remembering who you are at your core and why you went into this in the first place. But yeah, it's a very difficult road. And I admire you a lot for, you've been through many different parts of your career and I can only imagine how much injustice you've had to deal with at times,

• Speaker #0

  but you're just so of colorism,

• Speaker #1

  sexism. I mean, like,

• Speaker #0

  you get it.

• Speaker #1

  A hundred percent. I mean, it's just like, and I was thinking earlier when I was doing the prep, I'm like, I wonder if it would have been different if you were entering the industry now. Do you think it would have been different if you were entering in 2020? Because I know you first started in 2000.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, it probably would have been more of the same, probably even harder.

• Speaker #1

  Right. Yeah. Maybe it's more insidious now. Like I think maybe back then they were more open about it. Whereas now they make it seem like they're being PC, but really that's right. Again, right underneath the surface.

• Speaker #0

  Exactly. I think I like you, Lauren.

• Speaker #1

  I like you so much.

• Speaker #0

  Off of this podcast. You are just dope, man. You get it. I mean,

• Speaker #1

  there's so much bullshit. I just can't. It's like your voice is literally sent from God. How could anyone not understand that?

• Speaker #0

  It is. All of our talents are. Yeah. Greats are incredible. Like they come from, we get to have these blessings and we just dog them out so bad. It's amazing to me. Anyway, as long as we keep singing.

• Speaker #1

  Yes.

• Speaker #0

  And keep playing and creating and giving. And that's the part. I don't want to lose that part because of the other stuff outside of it that has nothing to do with music. No. Or creating.

• Speaker #1

  I don't think you could. I just think it's not in your nature. Like, even if you tried, like, even if you tried to get really angry, I think you'd come back to the love. That's what I'm doing.

• Speaker #0

  That's why I tried to quit. It didn't work. Yeah.

• Speaker #1

  It didn't work. I'm still here.

• Speaker #0

  It didn't work.

• Speaker #1

  So one thing that I talk about a lot on the show, because I think fear is the root of all evil, right? It holds us back from so much good in life. Um, and certainly from like pursuing our dreams. So I'm curious what your current relationship with fear is and how you work on taking it out of the driver's seat of your life.

• Speaker #0

  I recycle it into, I recycle it because it's no way to get rid of it. I think it comes. It either gets larger or smaller or it pops up on you when you think you got it all together. Because it's different versions of it too. But I use it and get my power back. Okay, I am afraid. So sometime when I'm on stage and I'm afraid, I say, I'm scared. It has no power over me. And the audience laughs. every time or they'll say it's all right we got you it'll be just me saying it out loud for myself so that it has no power that's the thing you know and even when people who are training for if they're training for war or training just to protect themselves they're afraid that they have to use these skills to protect themselves Gosh dang I have to use the skill that I learned and I'm scared I might miss something and and get hurt or killed you know they're afraid but they recycle it into their power right well it's the same thing the same thing yeah on tv they do the same thing I'm scared every time I do an interview and I say just go for it led what are you going to lose nothing you're just telling your your story and I just go for it because I it's I'm very shy and I'm not saying that because I'm not on camera. I just don't have any makeup on and my lips are chapped and my hair is all over the place, but I still didn't know we were doing video, but I said, I don't care. I'm going to talk to her today. Do you know what I'm saying?

• Speaker #1

  So it's like,

• Speaker #0

  you just naturally though, I'm more of an introvert and kind of shy, but my personality on stage becomes this. Ah, so I have to tell myself, just be the artist. Now you're the artist. part of let us see be that and people are looking to you to make them feel good for a moment in their life because they already have stuff going on outside of this don't give them your stuff just tell the truth of what it is and i crack jokes i'm really funny on stage because i'm nervous the more nervous and scared i am i crack jokes well

• Speaker #1

  you're just funny in general i i love that though because it's the same thing you said before you put out a project, you're like, tell yourself it sucks if it sucks or you're scared, it sucks. And I think that's just so powerful because, you know, I produced Brene Brown's podcast and she talks a lot about shame. And she said the best way to debunk shame or like make shame lose its power is by speaking it because the more shame stays in secrecy and stays cloistered and stays like in a closet, like over there underneath a pile of clothes, the more it owns you. And so it's just so proud. profound that you naturally use that skill.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, I do it because I grew up in a home that said, be quiet, don't say anything. Right. You know, so when I got out of that, I was talking to everybody.

• Speaker #1

  Oh, please never stop. I love your voice. I love your speaking voice and your singing voice. I could talk to you for hours. I really do hope we hang out at some point because I think I got to give you my number. Please. Yeah. I just think you're such an amazing person and just you blow me away as an artist. But my final question has to do with. the little version of you, because I do believe creativity is intricately connected to the inner child. And so I'm wondering if you were standing in the same room as your younger self, whatever age you think of her as, and you're looking at each other, what do you think she would say to you today and why?

• Speaker #0

  I think she'd laugh first, really loud and say, you did good kid. You did good. You didn't change a thing. Cause that's the part. Because I'm the same. Everyone who says that to me, they see me from my childhood. They say, you're the same. The only difference is you have more makeup on and stuff. But I think she would laugh and say, thank you. You didn't change who you are. You're still that cute, nice, big-eyed girl that didn't let people change her. Like, you fought for it. Yeah, that's the part. because she was already just different back then and she's still different now so yeah now i'm about to cry hey girl and i want to know one more thing what would you say to her and why say to her it's okay that's not gonna break you yep That's it. That's all I would say. That's not going to break you. Oh,

• Speaker #1

  now I'm going to cry. Yeah,

• Speaker #0

  true. It's like many times, like that trust part we were talking about earlier, those clowns, they were bigger people. And you're the little people and they were big people and you can't speak. So when you have your voice and you finally get it, you're like, ah, it's so great. So I would, that definitely, I would tell her, you just not gonna break you. Cause you, I'm telling you, I didn't, I'm surprised. When I got to 10 years old, I was happy. I was alive. And so I'm still here. And there are a lot of kids out there that would probably know what I'm talking about. But to get to 10 and 12 and 13, 13 is the worst year ever. You're fighting with your own self and then you have the world and then you're growing and turning into a teenager. It's a lot to deal with. And it's even harder at nine and eight now. So I understand. That's why I love children, like hanging out with them and teaching them. They just hug on me. They're like, you get us. Yes, I do. I'm like, it's OK. It's not going to break you, you know, but it's true. That's what I would tell my little girl self. And I see myself every time I do so much advocacy work for kids. It's like my favorite thing in the world to give back. That's why I'm a part of the Recording Academy is all the stuff they do for artists that are aging or artists that are coming or growing into artistry. All of that is my favorite part. That's why the award part is great. But to be able to do advocacy work. and help artists long-term, like our legacy and our careers and making sure we can pay our bills when we get older. I have parents who are artists. My mom was, and my dad died not having his music. So I'm changing that. So yeah, it's like a huge thing for me. That's the part when I leave, I hope they don't forget that I helped. Like Natalie Cole taught me that. She did a lot for you. and the recording academy in that part. And she was great. She was transparent and told it like it is. And that's the stuff I like. Some people didn't say anything when they helped like Prince, he would help a lot of people out, but never said anything about what they do. Yeah, from him that you don't always have to say what you do. Show it in your action. So anyway, yeah, I'm going off, but love talking to you, Lauren, you're just like, you just pull out the best question. And you're, you get it more about you now. I'm mad.

• Speaker #1

  I wasn't made up so you can see my face.

• Speaker #2

  Yeah. Let's do another zoom as friends. And you just inspire me so much because I w I've really been wondering lately after some experiences I've had in the last year, like, can I keep being myself or am I just going to keep getting hurt? If I'm myself in this industry, like, are people just going to keep hurting me? And you've just shown me that. like, yes, we're going to have a circus come in every now and then.

• Speaker #0

  Every now and then, girl, call me. Yes, I will. I will.

• Speaker #2

  I'll get my circus goggles on so I can see it. But you've taught me just in speaking with you that I can keep being myself and actually I'll be successful because I'm myself. So thank you for.

• Speaker #0

  You matter. You matter too. Like I'm so inspired by just talking to you and all the questions you give and knowing that someone gets it helps me. And this podcast is going to help somebody else, just us interacting with each other. We've never met. We don't even know each other. But we know that this experience in being a creative artist. So you're stuck with me. I don't know. I feel sorry for you, but

• Speaker #2

  I feel happy for myself. And I feel so excited and blessed that, you know, you came on the show and that hopefully we'll be in each other's lives. I feel like you're,

• Speaker #1

  you know,

• Speaker #2

  a soul sister.

• Speaker #0

  We're zooming soon where I can see your. face. And it's so great.

• Speaker #1

  Thank you so much for listening. And thank you to my phenomenal guest, Lettucey. Please download her new album, The Wild Card on Spotify, Apple Music, iTunes, or wherever you get your music. Follow her at Lettucey. That's L-E-D-I-S-I. Get her book, Don't Ever Lose Your Walk, at your favorite book retailer. Thanks to Liz Full for the show's theme music. You can follow her at Liz Full. And again, thank you. If you liked what you heard today, remember to rate, review, and subscribe on Apple Podcasts. Follow the show on Spotify. Share the show with a friend and post about it on social media. Tag me at Lauren LaGrasso and at Unleash Your Inner Creative. And I will repost to share my gratitude. You can also pre-save my new song coming out on October 2nd. It's called Freak Show. It's about mental health. And it's at the link in my Instagram bio. My wish for you this week is that you look out for the circus and clowns that might be coming down your creative path. And instead of going on the ride with them, you say, nah, and move along. And that you, like Lettucey, can recycle your fear. Have a great week. I love you and I believe in you. I'll talk with you Friday for a creative check-in. Bye.