Transcription

• Speaker #0

  Have you ever wondered what it truly means to make your mark on the world through creativity? Or what it takes to keep showing up for your art even when inspiration feels elusive? Today's guest is quite a treat, returning for her fifth time on Unleash to dive into the power of creativity as a life force, navigating artistic inspiration, and why creative people will change the world. Welcome to Unleash Your Inner Creative with Lauren LaGrasso. I'm Lauren LaGrasso. I'm a Webby Award-winning podcast host and producer, singer-songwriter. public speaker, and creative coach. This show sits at the intersection of creativity, mental health, self-development, and spirituality, and it is meant to give you tools to love, trust, and know yourself enough to claim your right to creativity and pursue whatever it is that's on your heart. I'm proud to share that for the fifth year in a row, I'm having on the incredible Julia Cameron on Unleash once again. Julia is an artist, teacher, poet, playwright, novelist, filmmaker, journalist, music composer. and was hailed by the New York Times as the queen of change. She's a pioneering force in the creative world. In 1992, before anyone was talking about this stuff, she initiated a movement that brought creativity to the forefront of conversations across the arts, business, and daily life. Julia is the best-selling author of 45 books. Her most iconic book, The Artist's Way, has sold millions of copies and has been translated into more than 40 languages, continuously inspiring individuals to unlock their creative potential. Every time I have Julia on the podcast, I always say that without her pioneering work on creativity, there would be no Unleash. Her courage to share on this topic is why I'm able to do what I do today. I'm having Julia on the podcast once again to dive into new insights on creativity, her personal creative process and journey, and her new book, The Artist's Way Toolkit, which is a practical companion that builds on the transformative principles of the artist's way and provides new actionable tools to help you keep your creativity flowing. It's like the artist's way 101, and it's just really digestible and easy to understand, and I loved it. From today's chat, you'll learn why creativity is worth fighting for, how you can turn your work into something meaningful, the biggest blessing of creative heartbreak, what's exciting Julia right now, and you'll even hear her sing the first song she ever wrote. It's pretty special. Okay, now here she is, Julia Cameron. So today, we're going to talk about this gorgeous book right here, Artist's Way's Toolkit. I loved it. Before we get into it, though, I mean, talking with you at the end of December has turned into one of my favorite Christmas traditions. I can't even believe how blessed I am to get to chat with you and have been. This is the fifth time we've talked. So I just want to first thank you for being here.

• Speaker #1

  Well, you're very welcome.

• Speaker #0

  I also want to ask, how are you and what has this last year been like for you? What are some of the highlights and lessons?

• Speaker #1

  It's been a wonderful year overall. I have a boyfriend who is wonderful. He's kind. He's funny. He's smart. We see each other often. And I am feeling really delighted. I was not expecting to have. a boyfriend again at age 76. But he turned up and he makes my life very happy. And there's been some time for poetry. I'd love to read you a couple poems.

• Speaker #0

  I would love that. First of all, I want to comment on the boyfriend. I wanted to ask, but I was scared to. And I'm so glad you brought it up. because this was a new thing last time you and I had talked. And I'm just curious, how has it continued to influence your creativity and your outlook on life?

• Speaker #1

  He's calm and an optimist. I find that when I get frightened, like when the power goes out and it's pitch black, he's steady. That's a wonderful thing. So I feel like I'm blessed.

• Speaker #0

  So beautiful. I know what you mean. I also, in the last year, Julia, I got engaged.

• Speaker #1

  Oh, wonderful. Yeah,

• Speaker #0

  I'm so excited. And, you know, I kind of was like you where I never wanted to just get married for the sake of it. I only wanted to get married if I really found somebody who felt like home to me. And it's the same thing with my fiance, Timmy. He is calm. and grounding, and I never knew that love could feel steady. and good. I thought love was associated with pain my whole life until I met him.

• Speaker #1

  Well, I say God saved the best for last.

• Speaker #0

  Yes, I'm so happy you had that because you deserve the world. And you brought up poetry. I mean, one of my favorite things about your new book was that you ended it with so many poems. You've been of such service with your creativity, like sharing your tools and your teachings and your wisdom with all of us. But something I think is really important for people to remember about you is you are a great artist. In addition to all of these incredible tool books you give us, you have so much great art. And I'm curious, what do you want people to know or how would you describe yourself as an artist? Like who is Julia Cameron, the artist?

• Speaker #1

  Well, I would say I'm a writer, first and foremost. I would probably say I'm a poet. I would say I feel... compelled to share my tools, but I like to peek out from behind the tools and say, this is the artist behind the artist's way. And that was what I did at the end of this book. I peeped out a little bit and said, here's something that I've done. I'd like to read a poem.

• Speaker #0

  I would love that.

• Speaker #1

  Do you have one you like particularly?

• Speaker #0

  You know I love Jerusalem is walking in this world. I know we've done that one before. The come to me was pretty beautiful. My green heart holds your ancestors. I'd love to hear that one if you're open to it.

• Speaker #1

  Okay, this one is called come to me. Come to me. There is no darkness in which I cannot see you. Come to me. My green heart holds your ancestors. They are waiting to hear your dreams. Speak to them. They know your name. Do not imagine you are alone. Do not imagine they have left you. They are listening, waiting for your voice. Come home. All of us are waiting. Every bird remembers you. The lion, in his pride, still knows your name. The gazelle, the snake, the silver heron lifting at the shore, all these and more. your family. Come back to me. You do not need to grind your bones to dust, resting your heart. You are known to us. Only come home.

• Speaker #0

  Thank you, Julia. Can you tell me more about that poem, especially that line about the ancestors?

• Speaker #1

  Well, I think we live in a primitive country. We live in a country that doesn't believe that ancestors share. And I believe that ancestors hear us, speak to us, guard us, guide us, deliver us. And so I wanted to say, my green heart holds your ancestors. I feel like the earth has a green heart, that it's rich and deep and positive.

• Speaker #0

  What is your relationship? like with your ancestors?

• Speaker #1

  Well, I feel like I have some adopted ancestors, some ancestors who are people that I knew who have passed on. And so I will say, can I hear from Jane? And I will hear, I'm right here by your side. Can I hear from Alberta? And Alberta says, I'm steady. I'm with you. I love you. I feel like I have a conduit to the ancestors. And I feel like I have my grandmother Mimi. Mimi loved ponies. The other night I dreamed about my childhood pony. It was a wonderful dream.

• Speaker #0

  And it felt like Mimi was talking to you through the dream.

• Speaker #1

  Yes.

• Speaker #0

  And that other part you described. is what you call guidance. If somebody listening is wanting to connect with their ancestors or to connect with God or the divine, how can they, just to give them a refresher, use your tool of guidance?

• Speaker #1

  Guidance is available to all of us. It's a simple matter of asking a question. If we have a desire to know more about something, we say, what about X? And then we listen. When we listen, we hear a response. And I think guidance can be about romance. It can be about finance. It can be about matters at work. It can be about matters at home. It can be about anything. Guidance is something that takes a little bit of practice. We ask for guidance, and then we sometimes disbelieve the guidance that we get, especially if it's positive. If it's too positive, we think, oh, that can't be. be true. But what we find over time is that it is true. Guidance tells us the truth, and it tells us in a gentle and direct way.

• Speaker #0

  And what you so beautifully outlined in the book is that it is always leading you to your highest good. Even if in the moment it feels hard to hear, it is leading you toward the truth and toward something that is going to help you expand. And I have to say, I used it right before this interview and it gave me great peace. What I usually do before interviews is like torture myself over like, will I ask the best question? Should I do this? Should I do that? And I'm like, you know what? You're meeting with Julia today. If you don't use some of her tools, you're just not doing it right. So I did guidance instead of like sitting there torturing myself over the questions. I went for a walk. a 20-minute walk. And it just lifted a brick out of my chest and my brain. And it gave me the truth, which was, if you focus on being present and staying connected, it will be beautiful.

• Speaker #1

  Yes, this is what I believe too. And I too did guidance before I sat down for the interview. And I was told, you're going to like your host.

• Speaker #0

  Oh, thank you, guidance. Because I love you, Julia. You're one of my guides. You just may not know it. We've talked about our ancestors. I haven't asked you in a while about LJ, little Julie. And that was actually something that came to me as I was on the walk because I'm back home in Detroit where I grew up. And I was thinking about how I took that walk as a little girl. And then I started thinking about you as a little girl. I always like to... To... trace the lines of our creativity. And I'm just curious, in Little Julie, were there any signs of the artist's way in her? Like, do you see the seeds of it back then even?

• Speaker #1

  I come from a large family. And in our family, when the older kids would learn something, they would teach it to the younger kids, whether it was tying a shoelace or... drawing a sketch or spelling our last name properly. And I think that habit of sharing with the little ones predates The Artist's Way. I think it was a vocation, a calling. One of the first people that I shared The Artist's Way toolkit with was my sister Libby. Libby was a portrait artist. She was going through a difficult period, and I said to her, well, why don't you try writing three pages in the morning? And she responded, I don't see what writing has to do with painting. And I said, well, just try it. So she did, and she reported back with great excitement, I'm painting better. So I think that the habit of sharing. predated the artist's way.

• Speaker #0

  It's clearly something you did from then to now. And I love that even the artist's way started out the same way that it would have been in your household growing up. We were teaching the younger ones where you taught Libby the morning pages. I found out, or I guess I remembered, I'm sure I've heard you say this before, but in an interview I listened to when I was prepping for today, you talked about how the artist's way, the morning pages, they were really born out of a broken... artist's heart, that you were distraught over writing screenplays and the movies were breaking your heart. And I would love for you to share how you discovered them.

• Speaker #1

  I had gone to New Mexico to mend my heart. And I lived in a little adobe house at the end of a little dirt road. And I was lonely. And I found myself saying, oh, there must be some companionship somewhere. And then I got the idea to try writing. And I was looking north at Taos Mountain, and every day it would have a different mood. It would be cloudy one day, clear another day, stormy a day. So I sat at a long pine table, and I looked out the window at the mountain, and I described the mountain. Then it went a beat further. I described my mood as I looked at the mountain. And then it went a beat further, and I discovered that if I described my mood accurately enough, I felt a sense of companionship, that I felt like the pages were a witness, that they gave me someone to talk to. I took my broken heart to the pages, and I found myself mending. And I was writing. oh, maybe for 90 days. And all of a sudden, the character came strolling me into the pages. And I looked at her and I thought, she's not a movie. She's a novel. And that was the beginning of giving myself permission to write in any form, whatever.

• Speaker #0

  If there's someone listening right now, who's in a similar state to what you were when you first started writing, when you were looking out at that mountain and you were feeling brokenhearted. What would be your advice to them if they're feeling disappointed and brokenhearted about their creativity right now?

• Speaker #1

  I would tell them to tell it to the page. I would tell them to say to the page, here is how I really feel. I have a broken heart. Can you help me? Then I would say, After you tell it to the page, maybe you'd like to take an artist's date, which is a solo expedition to do something fun. It cheers us up and it gives us a sense of benevolence and it gives us a feeling of connection. So I would direct them to the toolkit. And I wrote this toolkit hoping to connect to people. who are perhaps brokenhearted. I think the toolkit is a distillate of the wisdom that I have for writing for 55 years.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, it really is perfect to me. It is very perfect because it takes your four foundational tools and puts them all down in a way that is accessible, easy to understand. and then gives many examples of how it can work in action and how it might play out in your life. But going back to the disappointment thing, there were a couple of times in the book when you talked about when your heart is broken over a creative project or when you feel like your art hasn't turned out the way you thought it should. I just, I mean, I see your life as such a brilliant example of that because if that hadn't happened, you may have never written The Artist's Way, you may have never written a musical, you may have never written a novel. All the ways that... you can expand when you've experienced some sort of heartbreak. Would you speak a little bit on that? Because I think people need to hear that piece, that just because it didn't turn out the way they thought it should, that narrow vision of what they thought it should, there could be something so much greater for them.

• Speaker #1

  For me, I went from being trapped as a screenwriter with a broken heart to finding myself writing a novel. And I found myself saying, Oh, I can write anything. And I found myself many years later writing morning pages as I had been faithfully writing them. And I was asking them, what should I do next? And they said, you will write radiant songs. And I thought, you're crazy. I'm 45 years old. If I were going to be writing radiant songs, I would have to write a song about my family. I surely would have been musical before now. I found myself going to teach, and I went up to the Rocky Mountains, and I was staying with a girlfriend in an A-frame house at the top of the mountain, and I told her, I've been praying for what I'm supposed to do next, and I get told I'm going to write music, and I don't think that's bloody likely. She said, well, why don't you run down and sit by the creek? And she pointed me way down the rocky slope to where there was a little mountain stream. And I went down and I sat by the stream and I sat on a boulder. I was sort of... Half-assed meditating.

• Speaker #0

  I actually know exactly what you mean.

• Speaker #1

  I was sitting there listening to the rippling water, and all of a sudden I heard, My green heart is filled with apples. Your dark face is filled with stars. I am the one that you've forgotten. You are the one my heart desires. So dance when you think of me, sing to remember me, sing till your heart can see who we are. Dance when you think of me, sing to remember me, sing till your heart can see who we are. And I thought, oh my God, I think it's a song. and I went racing back up the hill and I found my friend and I said, listen to this. I think it's a song. And I sang it to her and she said, here, sing it into this. And she held up a little Radio Shack tape recorder and I sang it into the tape recorder. What happened after that was that I began to write music regularly. I have written musicals, children's stories, songs for the fairies, songs for the flowers. It was all something that I didn't think was possible. But the morning pages were insistent. They were saying, you will write radiant songs. And I found myself cooperating.

• Speaker #0

  First of all, Julia, what an honor to hear you sing. You have such a beautiful voice. I would love to hear you sing more. Would you ever do that more publicly?

• Speaker #1

  Well, when I teach, I sing.

• Speaker #0

  I love hearing your voice. And I think this is such an important moment to point out for you listening that you contain multitudes. You have no idea what amazing things that you have inside of you that are just brimming at the surface. And that Julia's tools. can help you hear and bring out. And as somebody who, like you, I didn't know I was a songwriter up until I was almost 23, 22, and like three quarters. And then the songs started coming to me in my sleep. The feeling you get when you realize that this thing has been brewing in you all along and that now you get to like be this thing you never thought you could be, it's indescribable. It's so powerful that that moment of heartbreak expanded you in such a big way that you were able to become all these different things that you always were, but might not have seen had you just gone down that narrow path.

• Speaker #1

  Yes, I think that's very possible. I think that sometimes people have an idea who and what they are. Well, the way I think of it was I used to teach in Chicago. I taught in rooms. that had low styrofoam ceilings. One day, somebody poked the ceiling and revealed that there was another 10 feet of space above the ceiling. I think of the artist's way that way, that it's like a little broomstick poking the ceiling, saying, you're much taller than you think you are.

• Speaker #0

  Hey, Creative Cutie. Are you looking to launch a new project or product in the new year? Then I have the workshop for you. On Saturday, January 11th at 11 a.m. Pacific until 1 p.m. Pacific, I am going to be hosting a workshop called Kickstart Your Creative Project in 2025. This workshop will be held via Zoom, so it's completely virtual and you can attend from anywhere in the world. This workshop is going to be amazing because it will address practical, spiritual, and emotional factors that inhibit us from sharing our work. and help you finally put yourself and your work out into the world. We'll do exercises to help you heal your younger self that's maybe creatively wounded, release self-doubt, and find a practical action plan to move forward toward your goal. The first hour of the workshop will be me teaching, followed by an hour of live coaching. The total cost is $40 for this transformative workshop. Sign up at the link in the show notes or at laurenlagrasso.com. This is my offering to the community. We need creative solutions to the world's problems. And I truly believe your work is part of that. Embracing creativity and embracing your true full self. How are those two things intertwined? Because I see them as one in the same. And I'm curious how you view that.

• Speaker #1

  I think it's the same way you view it, that they're one and the same. I think people often think that creativity is something that belongs only to a few. What I have learned is that creativity belongs to all of us.

• Speaker #0

  Why do you think we ever forget it or deny it in the first place?

• Speaker #1

  Well, I think we're taught to forget it and deny it. I think that we have a great fear of being... too big for our britches. And I think that we're often surrounded by people who are telling us, be small. It makes me comfortable. I think that being small may make them comfortable, but it makes us pinch.

• Speaker #0

  Something that I've been working on the past three or four years of my creative journey is learning to take my worth out of the outcome. of my work. This is something a lot of artists struggle with, that they think their work is only worth something if it's well-received. How do you think about that, about taking your worth out of the outcome and putting it just into the creation?

• Speaker #1

  Well, I had an example of this. I made a feature film. I shot the film and it was beautiful. And then I paused before I was going to cut. the film into its final shape. And during that pause, my sound was stolen. And so suddenly I had a feature film with no sound. And I found myself saying, well, I can give up or I can go forward. And I decided to go forward. And I found myself calling back my actors and saying, now, We need to recreate precisely what you said. They were game. They were brave. And my daughter was among them. They recreated the sounds of the film. And the film was sent to the London Film Festival. And it garnered a great deal of praise. And they said, this woman is not an old coward, but she is funny. I found myself. delighted that I had gone forward with the film. But because it was looped, it couldn't be released in America because we're not used to looped films. It had a life in Europe, but no life in the United States. I found myself feeling that I had to love the film and I had to love the film despite some nasty reviews in America. And I found myself feeling like it was a noble effort. I have it now on my website. If you go to Julia Cameron live.com, you can watch the movie. I feel like that was its proper home.

• Speaker #0

  What's the movie called so we can go watch it?

• Speaker #1

  God's Will.

• Speaker #0

  Well, that's what I need. Julia, that's beautiful. But how did you get there? How did you get to the place where you were able to accept that it couldn't go out the way you wanted it to?

• Speaker #1

  I went for walks and I prayed, giving me the courage to go forward. I think prayer is an important part of what we're talking about. And walking is an important part. And that when we walk, we pray. And when we pray, we're given answers.

• Speaker #0

  I've been thinking a lot lately with the state of the world about if everybody was able to really embrace their creativity in the way you talk about, where they see they are innately creative and they're able to find that extra 10 feet of space, how different the world would look. What do you envision the world like if everybody was able to use your tools and to fully embrace their innate creativity?

• Speaker #1

  It would be much more colorful. It would be much more cheerful. It would be much more sharing with each other. I think it's important not to allow the state of the world to become the state of our soul.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. You know, sometimes because I speak about creativity a lot, having this podcast and I've just started teaching workshops, I definitely want to get your advice on that. But there are times when I can like, maybe it's my inner critic. Maybe it's just the news. I don't know. But I can be like, well, what you're talking about really isn't that important. There are people who are dying and they're going through this and that. But then this other part of me, the really true part, the soul part, knows that if... everybody could actually access this innate creativity, a lot of the problems we have would be at least much different if not non-existent. When you were starting to teach this, did any part of your inner critic talk to you like that and say, well, don't talk about this. It's not really that important. And how did you get to the other side of that and realize it was such an important thing to talk about?

• Speaker #1

  Well, I think I always... thanks to my early students that when I started teaching and they started waking up, feeling enlivened, and I came to understand that enlightenment was a literal term, that if I taught a classroom of people how to do morning pages, they would start to look different and feel different.

• Speaker #0

  I love that part of the book when you talked about it's a literal term. Like people literally went up to somebody who had used the morning pages and they're like, did you get a facelift? And she just let them believe it. But it is true. I do believe that when people shut this piece of themselves off, they start graying out. I've seen it happen in my life. That's part of why I started the podcast. I've grayed out before, you know, when I've been pushing down my creativity. And when you start embracing it again, not only do you wear more color. And do you see more color? You notice the trees, but the color starts to come back to your face.

• Speaker #1

  Yes, I think that's very true. I wear black all the time. I call it hostility black. It's a sort of uniform that I have embraced. What I find is, and you can see this looking at the screen, that wearing a dark color lights up the face above it.

• Speaker #0

  Yes. And I might add, you always wear beautiful bright pink lipstick. So you have some color going on. And I will also say your walls, because you know, not everybody's going to be able to see this visually because we pull social clips, but not the whole podcast's video, are bright purple. And you've got a gorgeous maroon lamp behind you. And those things pop so much more. Because you're wearing black. I wouldn't notice them as much if you weren't wearing black. So it's almost like it keeps you open to seeing the color around you as well.

• Speaker #1

  Well, I think so. And my house is purple. My feeling about it is, well, it's a little bit eccentric, but I love it. It's purple and persimmon.

• Speaker #0

  I approve. I approve. I feel like that's something so important for creatives to allow themselves to not make a practical choice when it comes to, well, anything they don't want to, but especially your decor in your house. I almost got beige chairs because it was practical. But what I really wanted was pink velvet chairs with gold legs. And I got it. And every time I look at them, it makes me so happy. And I love that you painted your house in a similar way.

• Speaker #1

  Yes.

• Speaker #0

  Julia, one of the things I didn't realize, and when I read your book, it clarified, is that you allow people to teach the artist's way for free. And I think that is so beautiful and so generous in a world that tells us we have to monetize everything. You have given this as an offering. Tell me why you made that decision and why it's fed your soul.

• Speaker #1

  When the artist's way came out and I began teaching it to people. I was approached by somebody who said, I think you should franchise The Artist's Way. It should be like Est. And I said, no, no, no. It should be free. It should be something with the book as a guide that anybody can teach. I said to myself, you don't want to be in the position monitoring. all the groups and saying, this is right, this is wrong, this is how it should be. I have found that there is safety in numbers. The decision to make it free actually is rewarding.

• Speaker #0

  I wanted to ask, do you believe that the wealth comes around karmically? Do you feel like you feel that on some level?

• Speaker #1

  I don't think about it much.

• Speaker #0

  I love you. Something else I noticed in this book, because you brought up 12-step programs, and I know they've been hugely impactful and influential in your life. And I was curious if the 12 weeks of the Artist's Way had anything to do with 12-step program. Like, it was the first time I put together 12 and 12, or if not, what is the significance of 12?

• Speaker #1

  What happened with the Artist's Way, I was teaching it. I noticed that it took about 12 weeks for a class to be, quote, cooked. So it wasn't an imitation of 12-step program. It was an experience of observation.

• Speaker #0

  And with the tools you propose in this book, do you recommend to people, because this isn't the 12-weeks program, this is just giving people the four foundational tools, do you recommend they go in order of trying them? So start out doing morning pages for a few weeks, then start adding artist states, then walks. then guidance. How do you recommend somebody, if they're particularly reading your new book, they start going toward your tools?

• Speaker #1

  Well, I think the book is a guide. It talks about using the tools sort of simultaneously. They do the morning pages, and simultaneously, they do an artist's date, and they go for a walk, and they ask for guidance. So I think there's a good... rapidity to the tools that hopefully they are feeling grounded.

• Speaker #0

  Why is it important? Because in all of your books, no matter which one you're talking, if it's something to do with The Artist's Way, you do share these foundational tools. I had a teacher once that said, if you don't have a repetition problem, you have a problem. Why is it important to share these repetitively with people?

• Speaker #1

  Well, I have had a review recently that said... Julia's tools are simple and repetitive. And I thought, goody, tools should be simple and repetitive. I haven't had a problem with repeating the tools. I believe that they stay the same and that people can benefit from them at any point.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. And I will say too, reading this book. they hit me in a different way than they ever had before. And I don't know if it's because I'm in a different place right now, but it all felt more accessible to me. I mean, my friend who said, if you don't have a repetition problem, you have a problem, worked in radio. And they found that when they played the same song over and over again, they would get more complaints than anyone, but they would always be number one. When they stopped repeating songs, they fell down the charts. So... I think people need to hear things multiple times in multiple different phases for them to finally get it or get it in the way that makes sense to them. I applaud you for it because it's a good reminder for me because I always am like, oh, and you've talked about this before. I have to be original, but we all know that's not the best way to create. And so I love that you do it. It's very helpful to me as one of your readers and your students.

• Speaker #1

  Well, that's a good thing.

• Speaker #0

  It is. You use the word God in this book more than I remember you using in other books. Like it felt more free, at least. I know that's been a journey for you. There was a time when you were really afraid of being considered woo. Since then, you've written this whole beautiful book about guidance. You were so freely using the word God in here. It was really beautiful. What has your trajectory been to getting comfortable with the word God? And where are you at with it now?

• Speaker #1

  I think... that I have a notion from a line from Dylan Thomas, the force that through the green fuse drives the flower, that that's my God concept. The force that through the green fuse drives the flower. My boyfriend is an atheist and he says he has been an atheist since he was 12. And I feel like it's important for me to say, I'm a believer and that took a certain amount of courage to say because I didn't want to be considered woo-woo. And I didn't want to be considered naive. And I didn't want to be considered gullible. But I found myself looking at nature and saying, something wonderful made all of this. And I would look at dogs, and I would say, there's Rottweilers, there's Weimaraners, there's Cocker Spaniels, there's Westies. There's Britney Spaniels. It was clear that something that had a great deal of glee in creating diversity. That's what led me to be more comfortable saying God. Good orderly direction.

• Speaker #0

  Speaking of God, you wrote this quote in the back. It was like one of the quotes from The Artist's Way. And it made me cry, actually. So I'd love to read it. Here's what I like about God. Trees are crooked. Mountains are lumpy. A lot of his creatures are funny looking, and he made it all anyway. He didn't let the aardvark convince him he had no business designing creatures. He didn't make a pufferfish and get discouraged. No, the maker made things, and still does.

• Speaker #1

  Yes, and part of what the maker made is each one of us, and we are intended to be creative ourselves.

• Speaker #0

  Julia. You've shared so much in this conversation and in your life. I wonder if there's any poem, song, or thought you feel called to share or that you really want to share right now. Is there any art on your heart?

• Speaker #1

  This is a poem called Unprepared. I'm not prepared for this. I can't pronounce this bliss, the way we flow, the knowing where to go. This ebb and flow, can't we take it slow? Where are the walls? The shadows in the halls? This light, can it be right? Where does it come from? I've known a different sun, walked a different earth, where air was used for grieving. I think we're leaving. Before we met, I knew your face from stars and stones. I knew your name from wind and grasses. Before we met, the red earth held my heart. The sky cradled my dreams. The forest floor was my green bed. These were what I wed before we met. Now that you are here, I'm wed to galaxies. Our sky does not contain me. Our sun is a candle to what I see. Sheer as a cliff, the walls drop away. I love that.

• Speaker #0

  It's what I feel about my fiancé. Actually, when I read the poem in the book, I was like, should we read this at our wedding?

• Speaker #1

  That would be nice.

• Speaker #0

  That would be nice. Is there anything you want to share about the poem?

• Speaker #1

  Just that I believe if people will use the tools, they will have a sense of limitless possibility. And limitless possibility is something that brings us great joy. So I think your fiancé. my boyfriend Brian, having these people come into our lives unexpectedly and having them share with great generosity their own kindness. I think it's a good example of the force that through the green fuse drives the flower.

• Speaker #0

  I couldn't agree more. Julia, I adore you. I just have one final question for you. What do you want to do next as an artist? What creative dream is brewing on your heart right now?

• Speaker #1

  I am asking for what can be of use. And I've been working on a book and it's been going very slow. And I'm not used to that. I'm used to writing quickly, but I've been getting a paragraph at a time. And finally I said, maybe there's something else that wants to be born. And I'm waiting to find out. what it is. So I'm feeling like I'm in a space where I'm holding optimism.

• Speaker #0

  Well, I hold that with you. I can't wait to find out what it is. Maybe next year at this time, you'll be coming on and telling me about your newest project. And I'm just so grateful for you. As I step into this phase of like teaching and mentoring people, I hold you in my heart as my mentor. And I thank you for teaching people that they are innately creative. It is such important work. You did it when no one else was doing it with such bravery. And just thank you for continuing to show up and guide the way. Thank you, Julia.

• Speaker #1

  You're very welcome. And I just want to say that as you continue to teach and mentor people, it's very important that you keep making your own art.

• Speaker #0

  And thank you for doing that, really. That's something I want people to know about you if they only know the artist's way. You are such a prolific writer. Your poetry brings me to my knees. I love what you do. As an artist, as a teacher, I see it all as the same thing. But you are just a true artist. And thank you for giving me that empowerment, too, because it's something I think about. And I think it's really important to continue to make your work, to use the tools that you're teaching on yourself, and to share it all.

• Speaker #1

  Yes. Thanks, Julia.

• Speaker #0

  Thank you for listening and thanks to my guest, Julia Cameron. For more info on Julia, follow her at Julia Cameron Live and visit her website, juliacameronlive.com. You can find her brand new book, The Artist's Way Toolkit, wherever good books are found. Unleash Your Inner Creative is hosted and executive produced by me, Lauren LaGrasso, produced by Rachel Fulton with theme music by Liz Full. Again, thank you, Creative Cutie, for listening. If you like what you heard today, remember to rate, review, and follow the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Share the show with a friend and post about it on social media. Tag me at Lauren LaGrasso and at Unleash Your Inner Creative, and I will repost to share my gratitude. Also tag Julia Cameron at Julia Cameron Live so she can share as well. My wish for you this week is that you really tune into the honest truth that you were born creative. Creativity isn't something you have to invent or conjure up. It's just something you have to remember and unleash. I love you, and I believe in you. Talk with you next week.