Transcription

• Speaker #0

  Do you ever think about how your culture and heritage has affected the way you express yourself, the stories you tell, the way you think and are, and even the job you do? If you've listened to the podcast for any length of time, you know I'm very connected to and some may say obsessed with my Sicilian ancestry. And I'm always thinking about how it affects my creativity and my life in general. So I'm super excited about today's guest. She will be sharing how her Sicilian heritage influences her writing and storytelling. and how you can tune into your own background to shape your creative expression and the stories you want to tell. Welcome to Unleash Your Inner Creative with Lauren LaGrasso. I'm Lauren LaGrasso. I'm a Webby Award-winning podcast host and producer, singer-songwriter, public speaker, and multi-passionate creative. This show sits at the intersection of creativity, mental health, self-development, and spirituality, and it is meant to give you tools to love, trust, and know yourself enough to claim your right to creativity and pursue whatever it is that's on your heart. Today's guest is Jo Piazza. She's a best-selling author, podcast creator, and award-winning journalist. Jo is the national and international best-selling author of books like The Sicilian Inheritance, We Are Not Like Them, You Were Always Mine, and How to Be Married, just to name a few. She's also the host of one of my favorite podcasts, Committed, as well as Under the Influence and The Sicilian Inheritance, and honestly, many more. As an editor, columnist, Her work has appeared in the Wall Street Journal, the New York Times, New York Magazine, and many other publications. Again, anyone who knows me knows I have a deep, deep love for my Sicilian roots, and so does Jo. Beyond that, I really wanted to share her and her story with you because she has so many amazing tools for creative, multi-passionate people and ambitious women everywhere. From today's chat, you'll learn the key to great storytelling and how to find and tell hidden stories, how to approach business as a creative, how to include your culture and heritage into your creative work, the importance of women supporting women, and much more. Okay, now here she is, Joe Piazza. I'm so excited to meet you, by the way. I don't know why. but I didn't put two and two together that you were the host of the committed podcast. Yeah. That was a huge inspiration to me as I was starting my podcast. You were one of the main ones I was listening to. So you were a creative muse for me. So in a way you are why we're here today.

• Speaker #1

  I love that. I mean, everything always comes full circle, right? Like when I was creating committed, which was so long ago now, it was like eight years ago. I was listening to a lot of Nora McInerney, terrible things for asking. And then Nora and I became friends in real life. And I was like, you inspired committed. This is like always what happens because creative women find each other.

• Speaker #0

  That is so true. And so do Sicilian women. Yeah. I made a list of everything we have in common. I'm sure there's more, but these are the things that are known. Both Sicilian. My family is from Marsala. One of your original families of origin surname is Marsala, potentially lineage there.

• Speaker #1

  my family is also from marsala originally many many hundreds of years back no way okay cool so maybe we're cousins definitely related yeah

• Speaker #0

  committed podcasts. There's also murders in my family, in my Sicilian family.

• Speaker #1

  Yes.

• Speaker #0

  My two great uncles were in the mob in Detroit and were killed by the Purple Gang. So that's interesting. And I've also been very inspired by family. And I just had a huge pilgrimage to Sicily to meet my long lost cousins. My dad, for some reason, which is something I want to get into with you, neglected to tell me my whole life that my grandpa left a brother there. He had had first cousins there. his whole life and never just talked to them or known them or told me about them. And then two weeks before I'm about to leave for Sicily, I made a special trip to Marsala because I wanted to see where my grandpa was born. My dad hands me this letter and goes, Hey, by the way, this is my cousin's address. He sent me this in 2009. I never answered him, but you should go there. Wowza. Yeah. It was amazing. And I did. And they totally embraced us. And like, we talk all the time now we're on the WhatsApp. They've been waiting for us all those years. and looking for us.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah. They're like, they're like, they'll show up eventually. We should have dinner ready for when they do. And I'll bet they did.

• Speaker #0

  They basically did. Yeah. It was really beautiful. long story short, I was pretty much crying the entire time I was reading your book because it just resonated so deeply and it made me miss Cicely so, so much. So thank you.

• Speaker #1

  I don't want to make people cry, but I kind of want to make people cry. So that does bring me a weird perverse joy. What I really want, I mean, honestly, is I want people to want to go to Sicily. Like I love Sicily so much. I've always felt so at home there. And, you know, the highest praise that I've gotten so far was in our New York Times review. And she said that halfway through reading the book, she like looked at plane tickets to go to Sicily. And I'm like, that's what I want. Yes. Also, the Sicilian tourism board should now be sponsoring this whole book tour. I guess people are actually booking trips to Sicily. And I wanted Sicily to just have real main character energy in this book. So yes, yes, yes, and yes. What you just said brought me so much joy.

• Speaker #0

  Oh my gosh. Well, yeah, your writing brings me a lot of joy. It's true. Like, I literally am like, I don't know how much longer I can go without going back there after reading this.

• Speaker #1

  You've got to go.

• Speaker #0

  I really want to. I really want to. So I want to know, why do you believe our culture, Sicilian culture, Sicilian American culture, is such a rich tapestry creatively? And what stories of Sicilians still need to be told?

• Speaker #1

  I'll start with the first one. First off, we have such a rich and varied history. The island has just been conquered over and over again for the past 4,000 years. And so we're really a legitimate melting pot of cultures from all over the world. And I think that we have brought all of their stories and their mythologies and their food and their cultures and brought it all together in Sicilians. And I think that that makes the culture just so incredibly rich. For the stories that haven't been told. I mean, it's the stories of women. It really is like all over the world. You know, women have not been the ones to write history. And yet we know that there are just so many strong, incredible, creative women who have not had their stories told. And I've said this a lot about, because I've also created a true crime podcast to go along with the book. I mean, the book, the book is loosely based on my great-great-grandmother's murder in Sicily. And I didn't dig into that while I was writing it because I just wanted to let my imagination go. But once I finished writing the book, I decided to solve the murder in real life because I am a intensely thorough content creator and I'm solving it in the Sicilian Inheritance True Crime Podcast, which is White Lotus Meets Only Murders in the Building. And I start both the podcast and the book, you know, you think that there's going to be a dead woman. And because I think we are a culture. obsessed with dead women and how women die. I mean, if you look at like literally every thriller ever, but we don't end that way. And I don't think that's a spoiler because the goal of the book and the podcast is to tell the stories of women's lives and how they lived. And I can tell you the most woo-woo thing that has happened.

• Speaker #0

  Please. We love the woo. I love the woo.

• Speaker #1

  I love the woo. So I've been talking to a medium, one of my favorite mediums, Marianne DeMarco. She's also an Italian American and she lives on Long Island as apparently all mediums do. she told me the other day, she's like, I feel the energy of all of these Sicilian women from like hundreds of years back, you know, just so happy you're telling their stories that haven't been told. And I, you know, I felt that the whole time that I was writing the book, I really did feel that. So, you know, to hear it validated by my favorite medium, that felt good.

• Speaker #0

  I love that. Yeah. I mean, I feel that too. As I was reading it, I'm like, did my great grandmother live this way? Because, you know, my dad's family's from Marsala, but my mom's family's from a little mountain town as well called Misalmeri, which is right outside Palermo. And we actually visited there when we went in October. And honestly, it was like a time capsule. I mean, not that much had changed. And when I go to Marsala, I'm like, I don't know that we did leave for a better life. Like my family there is doing great and thriving and like I actually had a lot of grief. because I was like, I wonder if we could have been happy here. Yeah. But when we went to Mieselmer, I was like, okay, I get why they left. Like, there wasn't a lot going on. It was quiet, but the people there were so proud and kind and loving and generous. Like, we walked into a church. My Aunt Santa had just died here in the States. She was 100, but her dad was born there in Mieselmer. And we walked into the church. and we told this priest, like translating on Google Translate, and he's like, okay, I'll do the mass for her. So he just like did a mass right then and there in my Aunt Santa's name. And so, yeah, it was beautiful, but I really felt the women from that part of my lineage in your book. It felt like I was walking with them as I was reading it.

• Speaker #1

  I mean, that's how I felt while I was writing it. And, you know, I think the women in your lineage then were probably here. They're probably like in the ether. They're probably somewhere because I mean, there were just things that I wrote while I was writing the book that I feel like I couldn't have known too. I mean, I did an intense amount of research. I talked to a lot of academics who studied the period. I read novels from the period, read a lot of histories of Sicily, but like just like a little granular things about their lives that I'm like, oh, I know this is true. Like I can feel this in my bones that this is true.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. So I want to deep dive into everything with the book, with our culture. But first, I want to do a little deep dive on you because you are such a prolific creative. I mean, it's really astounding to look at your body of work and what you continue to do. But I believe creativity is directly linked to the inner child, our younger selves. And so I wonder when you trace the lines of your life, what was the first sign that you would become a storyteller?

• Speaker #1

  Oh my gosh. I mean, I have been writing and telling stories since I was a kid. I was like, I've been like writing little books, you know, ever since I was about five or six years old. And now I have a six year old and he does the same thing, which is really beautiful to watch. Once I was in college, I got the journalism bug and started writing for our student newspaper and got an internship at the New York Times, but I went to Penn. where like literally everyone was an investment banker. And I'm like, I guess that's what I should do. And so I did all of the investment banking interviews and I interviewed with Enron.

• Speaker #0

  Oh my gosh.

• Speaker #1

  I know this was the year of the Enron crash. And I still remember like getting invited to like this cocktail party of like all these like big fat Texan guys who were just like, you know, swinging their balls around. And then like the next week they crashed. It was amazing. yeah, but I didn't do it. I didn't do it. I got a bunch of internships and I was like, I'm going to write for the newspaper instead. And then I was a gossip columnist at the New York Daily News after I graduated from Columbia. This was the only job I could get as a newspaper reporter in New York City. And I knew nothing about celebrities. And I was like, I'm just going to work hard and figure this out. And I did. It was an amazing job. Like I got to go to every movie premiere and party in the early 2000s, which was insane. and then kind of evolved because, you know, the internet changed everything. I originally thought I would be a newspaper writer, maybe a magazine writer for my whole life, but I've had to pivot over and over again as media has had to pivot, as media has, you know, burned to the ground and risen from the ashes and burned to the ground again. And, you know, I've moved into digital, I moved into video, I moved into podcasts and eventually books. I do like, you know, telling stories in a lot of different formats. I will say the hustle is exhausting. It truly is. And, you know, I don't think any of us who are doing this would say otherwise. But at this point in my career, more than a writer, I really call myself a storyteller because I do work in so many different forms. And I think you have to meet people where they're at. And some people want to consume in a podcast. And some people want to consume on social media. And some people want to consume in a book. And I'm trying to experiment with all of these formats to figure out the best way to tell each individual story.

• Speaker #0

  What have you found so far? Is there any through line to where the best place is for certain types of stories?

• Speaker #1

  no no there's no through line there's no through line I'm still figuring it all out like literally right now I love podcasting I love audio because I think it's so intimate I prefer audio over long form journalism at this point I feel much more engaged with a story in audio but I'm also a book nerd I love a good book what I have abandoned the most is that long form journalism um that I used to write because I just, I'm not seeing the platforms for it or the attention span for it right now.

• Speaker #0

  That makes sense.

• Speaker #1

  And no one's paying for it. I mean, and I think that that's definitely worthy of a conversation when we're talking about creativity, because we're living in a world right now where a lot of creative output is put out there for free. And that's dangerous for creatives, because we do need to be compensated for art. And when it's possible to create and distribute for everyone to do without compensation, I think it gets really hard for people to be truly. creative. So we're at a weird inflection point and it can be both exciting and challenging. And I try to choose the excitement over the other, but I think all of it is worth talking about and getting out there.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. That's so interesting. You said that because up until this point in my career, like I've done primarily free offerings, like podcasts, it's like ads, but it's free to the public. I have music out, you know, but if you have one of the streaming services, or even if you don't, you can listen to it on YouTube. And I just put out a podcasting course. And it's like my first thing that people have to pay for. And it's interesting, like... seeing the level of discomfort I feel over it, first of all.

• Speaker #1

  Asking for money. It's very uncomfortable. Yep.

• Speaker #0

  I'm curious how my audience is feeling. I mean, it's selling slowly, but part of me is like, is it just because they're not used to paying for things from me?

• Speaker #1

  Yes.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah.

• Speaker #1

  Yes. That is it. And it's not fair to the consumer either, because we're actually training the whole generation of content consumers that things should be free.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah.

• Speaker #1

  And that's not our fault. I mean, this is what corporations have been doing, that we're creating content and they're distributing it for free, but. I do think it's a very dangerous slope because people have to make a living.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. I mean, that's something I heard you talk about. I listened to a podcast you did about ambition. How do you deal with that when you are doing something like selling a book? Like you said, you've become a selling machine. Like how are you harnessing the power in that thing that we have to do as creative sometimes?

• Speaker #1

  I'm a full-on monster when it comes to selling the book because I have to be. I mean, I am working in traditional publishing where, you know, most of the hustle to sell books is on me. And I do try to be as honest as I can about this as well. I'm like the breadwinner in my family. I am married to a wonderful man who has a great job, but like, I'm the one that's like shouldering a lot of the financial burden. I have to make money doing what I'm doing. And if I don't, I won't do it anymore. And it's just like, we've got three kids and I'm like, oh wow, if like I can't make money in my creative life, I will do something else. I'll figure out what does because they don't have a choice. I'm a mom. I think not enough of us talk about having to make money and like what you get paid for different things. Podcasting is a really interesting space because up until a year ago, I was on salary with a podcast company being paid just to make the podcasts. and they don't really need to do that anymore because now people will make them for free, and they can distribute them. And then there's ad sales, of course, but that's different than having a salaried job. And so I saw that evolution. It took seven years to happen, but it really did. And now I make them on my own, and I'm the primary owner, and I get all the money from the ad sales, but it is a different model. And now we're seeing it with books, too. We're seeing a whole new generation of authors where you can independently publish. and you will make money if people buy that book, but you're not getting any money up front to create. And I think it's a tricky space because we're saying you don't necessarily deserve to be paid for your work in order to create it.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. And that does a number on your self-esteem, especially in a capitalistic society where we're constantly told who you are is what you do and how much you have. How do you advise creatives out there listening who are in a similar situation to you? where they're having that self-esteem hit from being a have-not creatively, basically. How do you advise they get through that?

• Speaker #1

  it's just, it's really hard. I think you have to focus on what you're creating and the fact that you do love it and you derive joy from it. Social media doesn't help us though, because we have created a universe also where, you know, we feel validated by likes and by numbers. And I think, you know, staying away from that as much as possible is very important. Carving out time to create what you want and then also finding a way outside of your art. to validate yourself in another way. I mean, I will also say that I've written 12 books at this point. Very lucky that I can support myself as a writer, but I'm constantly working essentially another full-time job. That does give me the freedom to write, but it's also hard. It's also hard, but at the same time, I try not to be dependent on one thing because I think you have to have a lot of irons in the fire and be ready if something doesn't work out.

• Speaker #0

  Totally. how do you do that? Because I mean, I'm all for people being multi-passionate creatives. That's what I am as well. I think it's really important to have many different creative outlets in your basket, but do you base a lot of burnout? Like how do you keep the creativity flowing through all these different things at the same time?

• Speaker #1

  Yeah. You know, I actually, I don't get burnout in the creating process. I don't get burnout when I'm juggling so many different jobs. I'm burnt out right now because book tour. burns me out. Like the process of like having to create at the same time as selling myself, I find selling myself very exhausting.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. So how are you taking care of yourself through that?

• Speaker #1

  I'm not. That's really the problem. I'm trying to start taking care of myself right now. Like I'm trying to say, and it's something that's very obvious and rational, but I don't think about it. Like if I have an event at night, I'm trying to tell myself, oh my God, take time during the day, but I never see that. Right. It's like, oh no, night hours are like bonus. Right. I'm also trying to just like limit the hours of a day that I'm doing interviews and work. It's hard because I mean, I have book events just about every night right now. And my biggest goal has to be focusing on selling the Sicilian inheritance. And an author's job is to find readers. Like it's not being done for us. There is like no magical person out there helping to get our books into bookstores or into readers'hands. It is literally all us. It's all us and word of mouth. readers telling other readers that they love the book. So the hustle is real and it will be real all summer. I enjoy connecting with readers. I hate selling myself. And so it's like a real push and pull.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. If you can stay in the connecting part, like what I'm doing is connecting. Like I try to brainwash myself sometimes, even if I don't feel like that's true. Like, okay, you're actually helping. You're doing a service. You are. But there's this other part that sneaks up and is like, oh, but you're selling. You're selling. People are getting annoyed by you. And yeah, it's like a real internal battle. But one thing I love that you've talked about a lot is women supporting other women. I know you're incredibly supportive of other women and just other creatives in general. But asking for help is such a huge challenge that so many people in general deal with, certainly creatives deal with. How are you with asking for help or support? And is there any advice for people out there who are struggling to do so for their own projects in life?

• Speaker #1

  I'm really good at it now. I'm really good at it. And I was really shitty at it for a long time. I don't want anyone to beat themselves up if they're not good at it, because I'm a 43 year old woman who has been doing this for 25 years at this point. I've recently got very good at it because I don't see any other way to get this done. I mean, personally, I try to be as supportive as I can. to other women and their projects. You know, I'm constantly blurbing women's books and, you know, reading book proposals and giving advice. Like I always show up when someone asks me to be in conversation with them at a bookstore. I rarely cancel things even when I probably should because I'm freaking sick. And I've gotten very good at just putting out the ask, just, you know, being unabashed and saying, I need this, can you help me? Even though I used to be terrible at asking for help because... 95% of the time people will, and 5% of the time people won't. And, you know, I'll just talk about those people behind their backs forever.

• Speaker #0

  That does soften the blow a little bit. But like, how do you do it? Do you just say, are you upfront about it? You're like, hey, I'm trying to do this. Is there any chance you could help me? Do you think that's the best approach to this sort of thing?

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, I don't blindly ask people necessarily. I mean, I try to make a genuine connection and also offer help to them in turn. You know, I have a big platform myself. So if someone has a project coming down the pipeline, I'm like, let me promote you as well. And I also don't ask people for help when it doesn't make any sense. I try to be very, very thoughtful about it. I mean, I just got a request from a journalist, just a student journalist and writing something. that she hopes to pitch and wanted to do an interview about the dangers of sharing your children online. And I was like, I'm not the right person. Like I'm not an expert. I've never put myself out there as an expert. There's like five different experts that I have interviewed on my podcast. If you've listened to it, I'm a journalist like you, I'm not the right person. And so I just, I do like it when people are a little bit more thoughtful with other people's time of like, oh, I did the research. I know what I'm doing. Let me make it easy for you to help me.

• Speaker #0

  Totally. Yeah, when somebody puts in the work to like pitch themselves for your podcast and you can tell they've actually listened to an episode and they have an idea that could truly serve your audience, I will always read, respond to that, even if it's not the right fit. But like when somebody just like you can tell they blasted everybody on their email list, it's like, aw. Well,

• Speaker #1

  and it's why I don't think that book publicists necessarily can get as much traction anymore because they're sending out press releases. I don't read them. And I'm an author because I'm just like, this blanket pitch is going to do nothing for me. I need you to tell me why is something great for my show? Why is someone great for me to interview? And that's what I do when I'm, I mean, I've pitched myself for the majority of outlets and I'm like, oh, okay, this is what I do. This is the conversation we'll have. and try to make it easy for people. So I think that is the biggest thing, you know, when you're asking for help and you shouldn't be afraid to ask for help because we all need help. Like this is hard, but when you're asking, make it as easy as possible for the person. Like when I ask people to blurb my book, I'm like, Hey, I know you're so busy. How can I make it easier for you? Can I give you an e-version, a print version? I can highlight parts I think you think are great, and I can write you a sample blurb.

• Speaker #0

  Brilliant.

• Speaker #1

  just like done so much of the pre-work for them that it's so much easier. And I think. it's that thoughtfulness that matters when you're making a request.

• Speaker #0

  That's so true. That's great advice. Hi, creative. Are you yearning to share your story, expertise, and heart with the world? Well, I have some exciting news for you. I am launching a podcasting course. It's called Podcasting for Self-Expression. It is a course and mastermind with live coaching to help you find your authentic voice and launch your dream podcast. During the course, I'll take you through everything you need to know to create a compelling show. from how to use your life story to find the topic you're meant to speak on, to how to find your podcast thesis statement, to the important technical aspects, to innovative ways to market your show, and more. I'm so excited to offer this because it really is different than anything else that's available on the market because it looks at podcasting not only from a tactical standpoint, but also through the lens of self-development because That's what makes a compelling show. Somebody who really knows who they are, who they want to connect with, and what their authentic voice sounds like. And in the course, I'm going to be using the same techniques I've employed to coach and produce dozens of hit podcasts like We Can Do Hard Things with Glennon Doyle, Unlocking Us with Brene Brown, Lauren Conrad Asking for a Friend, and this sweet show you're listening to right now, Unleash Your Inner Creative. The course starts on Saturday, June 22nd. I would be honored to have you in it. And great news for being a loyal Unleash listener, I am offering you a 15% off discount with the code Unleash15. That's Unleash and the number 15. So head over to LaurenLagrasso.com, click on course and type in code Unleash15 at checkout for 15% off. I'll also have a link to the course in the show notes so you can also access it there. I can't wait to be in community with you even more and help you bring your authentic voice into the world. I want to dive deep. into your book at this point. I loved it so much. So first of all, I know that you toyed with the idea for a while before you actually wrote it. What made you realize that you had to release this story, at least out of yourself, and then into the world?

• Speaker #1

  I had been writing this book for so long. Actually, I'd been thinking about this book for so long. I started writing it and it wasn't really flowing. I talked to an editor about it. They weren't that into it. And I put it away. I wrote a couple more books. And in the beginning of the pandemic, after I had my first daughter, because it's such a big story about strong women, I started thinking about it again and picking it back up. And I told my husband about it. And I'm, you know... that's the other thing I have to say. Like I'm married to an incredibly supportive man who is an equal partner. And he was like, just write the book for you. He's like, write the whole book. He's like, you've been writing a lot of books, like based off a synopsis and like selling them. And he's like, right, just write it. And like, don't worry if anyone's going to buy it. and that was crazy for me because I just like love being paid for things. And I did it. And it was so joyous and wonderful. And the book really did flow out of me. And I scrapped those first 50 pages that I'd written before because they weren't working. And it was holding me back. Those were holding me back because like, they just weren't the right story. They weren't the right entry point to get into it.

• Speaker #0

  That's so important, by the way. Can I stop you for a minute? Like for anyone listening. Sometimes throwing something out actually expands you. You think like, oh my gosh, I lost all that. But what you're saying is those ones were clunky. It didn't really work. It wasn't flowing out of you. Then when you threw it away, it started flowing, correct?

• Speaker #1

  Started flowing. See,

• Speaker #0

  that's amazing. Thank you for sharing that.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah. Well, no, I mean, I had to get rid of that. I just had to. And I did. And then it worked. And then it worked. And it was interesting because the original engine for the modern woman going back in Sicilian inheritance. had to do with her dad dying. And that's what wasn't working. But my dad had just died, right? And so like, you're writing what you know, and like all of this stuff. And that's what I had to throw away. And I got rid of it. And then it really started to flow. And then I went out to go sell it. And there were a lot of publishers who told me they're like, this isn't what you write. And I'm like, my last book sold 100,000 copies. And they're like, but you don't write thrillers or historical fiction. And I'm like, right. And they're like, but how will we sell it? And I'm like, you'll turn it into a book and it will go into bookstores and people will buy it. but my wonderful editor, Maya Ziv at Dutton, she just got it. And she believed in me. And she's like, you can write anything. And I'm like, I know I can write anything. So we did it together. And, you know, it's been a beautiful process. I love this book so much. We've now sold 30,000 copies of it.

• Speaker #0

  Congrats.

• Speaker #1

  Thank you. In less than two months. And

• Speaker #0

  I like to be really upfront about numbers too, because I feel like publishing is a very opaque industry where like, you never really know what is good and what sells and like what you should strive for. And the majority of books don't sell more than 5,000 copies. Like 30,000 is a lot. And I'm just, it's all because readers are loving it and like word of mouth and people are sharing it with their friends and their moms and reading it together. Even dudes are reading it.

• Speaker #1

  As they should.

• Speaker #0

  As they should. But like, let's be honest. I like. a lot of dudes do not read enough books written by women.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah. Written by women and with women at the forefront of the book and with the lead stories. I mean, I will tell you too, like I'm telling all my friends, especially my Sicilian and Italian American friends, my friend, Julie, shout out to Julie. She's going to be reading it. It's her July book club month pick. she wanted to do like Aperol spritz and like pasta for the book club. Anyway, I'm like, well, here's the perfect option for you.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah,

• Speaker #1

  it is true. I really do see this being spread word of mouth. I told my parents to read it. So it's just so heartfelt. Like it's hard for it to not pick up fire like that. Like it's going to spread.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. And that's, what's been amazing because like, you know, when people love something, they really do share it. Um, and that's, that's what I'm seeing, which is so cool.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah. What is that thing where you told me that you don't write this kind of book? Like, what is that? Why is it so difficult for people to expand their vision that you might not just be one thing? What is that?

• Speaker #0

  Publishing, like, really doesn't like you to go outside your lane. They just don't. They're very set in their ways of that you're this kind of writer. This is what you write. if there's a successful book, they'd love that author to write that book 19 times. And look, we've seen it. We see it, don't we? And I think that's unfair. It happens to women more than men. Men are often allowed to do many, many different kinds of things. They allow James Patterson to do whatever the fuck he wants, but he's James Patterson. And he like has millions of millions of people in his audience. But I do think that women get pigeonholed more often than men. And, you know, if there's a through line to all of my books at this point, it's stories of badass women that I think haven't been told enough. And so like, there's no section of the bookstore for that, but there's a lot of readers for it. And there should be a section of the bookstore for it.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, there should. For sure. Let's make it happen. It's coming out. Done. Done. Signed, sealed, delivered today. Okay. So let's talk about these beautiful characters, Sarah and Serafina. First of all, I was so excited when I saw it was being told by two people. that really thrilled me. I love it when there are these mirror stories. So it's, it was her great grandmother. Yeah.

• Speaker #0

  Her great grandmother. Yeah. We have Sarah in the modern day and Sarah is a woman living in Philly. She's a chef and a mom and a wife. And she goes back to Sicily to try to claim a family inheritance and unravel the potential murder of her great grandmother, Serafina. And then we see Serafina in the past timeline. She gets pregnant very young. She has her dreams and ambitions squashed. And we watch her as her husband leaves for America, take on all of these new roles and become the town healer and the town doctor and then have to make some very difficult choices.

• Speaker #1

  So how much are these two characters based on you and your actual great grandmother?

• Speaker #0

  really not at all, to be honest. I mean, like my first crappy novel was super auto-fictiony. But now I'm good at writing things that aren't real, which is real fiction. And I took the like very loose idea that I had the family story of Lorenza. She's my great-great-grandmother, but great-great gets so annoying to write in a book. So I took out one great, like just the idea of her being murdered and left alone. She was left alone much later in life. So with Serafina, yeah. her husband leaves when she's like 19 years old. Lorenza's husband didn't leave till she was in her forties. They already had seven children. Sarah is actually nothing like me. I mean, she's like really, except for the fact that she is a mom. And like, I was able to write a lot of my own thoughts on motherhood in the book. But besides that, I really wanted to write someone who was in a dark place. She's in a dark place. She's trying to figure out her life and her character. is a little bit messy, but I wanted to rewrite the trope of the messy woman because in so many, especially thrillers, we see a woman, she's an alcoholic, she's a pill popper, she's mentally ill, she's agoraphobic, like the girl on the train, woman in the cabin window phenomenon or whatever. And like Sarah's life is a mess because the world is hard for women. It's hard to get a business off the ground. It's hard to juggle all of the things of being a wife and a mother. and an entrepreneur. And like, so that's why things are messy because the world is hard. And I do feel a lot of that myself. So like a little bit of that, you know, was similar to my own story. And then the town that we set a lot of the action in, in Sicily, Caltabalassa is based on the town Caltabalotta where my family's from, but I needed to take a little bit of artistic license. So I changed the name slightly because I had to add a fountain.

• Speaker #1

  Damn fountains. Always making you change names. I know.

• Speaker #0

  Always making me change the names. Yeah.

• Speaker #1

  I think secrecy is such, it's a big thing across a lot of cultures, but I know for my own life, in Italian, Sicilian culture, secrecy is such a huge thing. Protect the family name. Don't bring people into our business. Keep that hush hush. was there any hesitancy within you or within your family to start sharing your family secrets?

• Speaker #0

  Not with me, because I mean, I'm such an open book with certain members of my family, especially the men, to be honest, they like legit believe that there's some kind of weird family vendetta going on, of which I've always thought was kind of crazy. And so, because I think they love the idea of like the mafia and the secrecy. and they're like, you don't want to open old wounds. And I'm like, oh my God, like you guys are like boring claims attorneys. And like, you're not Tony Soprano. Okay. When they're legit, not even connected to the mom at all. And so they claimed they didn't want me to do it, but now they're like fully bought in. And like my family, like they just love attention. Right. So they're like, oh, we're like famous now. So they're very into it.

• Speaker #1

  What do you think is up with the secrecy in our culture though? I've been trying to figure that out for years. Where does it stem from? is it from the mafia?

• Speaker #0

  No, I don't think it's the mafia. I mean, I think it's, like I said earlier, you know, the island has been conquered and really like pillaged and people's rights have been suppressed and for so long that, you know, to survive and to hopefully thrive, you really had to look out for your own and keep each other's secrets, especially from like the rich, like royalty that just like... kept coming in. I mean, we just like, we have the Normans coming. We have like the Romans, we have like all of these conquerors coming. And I think the Sicilian people really banded together to try to keep their culture strong and to protect themselves. And to do that, they really had to have secrets. And then also when the mafia came around and, you know, that was mostly around the turn of the century. It started as like bands of criminal associations. fighting against the leadership of the country, which was treating the poor people so badly. But when they really, you know, started turning into criminal organizations, people again had to protect themselves. So I think the secrecy has come out of having to protect yourself for so long.

• Speaker #1

  And as I was reading, I was also curious, like, what role did generational or inherited trauma or stories play into your research and your writing of the book?

• Speaker #0

  so much. I think, especially when it comes to the women of this island, they've been through so much and we can like feel it in our bones. And when it comes to women generally, we've taken on so many burdens for so long. And, but being able to tell those stories, being able to write those stories, like we said earlier, that has been, been very freeing and incredibly uplifting to me.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah. And one of the things that I was so touched by in the book is the way all the women came together and supported each other. Why was that an important story to tell? And I would love it if you could go into some of the historical accuracy there.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, no, of course. I mean, one, it was a necessity. You had about a million men leaving Sicily during this time period and women having to band together in order to. survive to take care of each other. But I mean, that's common throughout cultures and throughout history. Men have been leaving and going off to war or going off to explore the world. And women have always been the ones left behind. They've always been the ones holding together the fabric of society and their stories never get told nearly enough. And so that was really important for me to talk about. And a lot of the novels that I read and the historical... archives that I went through, you do see networks of women caring for each other. And I really wanted to emphasize that. And it's hitting a lot of modern day women hard, because I think that we have a generation that has lost our village and we're hungry for a village. And, you know, like the village has kind of been replaced with online connections, which are definitely not the same. And so I wanted to emphasize that village for Serafina and also showed that Sera didn't have it. And that was a lot of what made Sarah's life more difficult.

• Speaker #1

  Hey, creative, if you love the show and it is meant a lot to you, could you do me a favor? Rate and review on Apple. Give it a review on Spotify. Share it with a friend. These things all make a major difference in a podcaster's life and in growing their show. And I really want to build up this community of creatives who love, trust, and know themselves and love, trust, and deeply know others. So if you could do that and share the show with someone you care about, that would mean so much. All right. I love you. you know, I studied acting in college and when I would get done with a play, I would think about the character and like wonder how they were doing when the play ended. But like, do you wonder how your characters are doing after you leave them?

• Speaker #0

  They have a sequel. I'm working on a sequel. I can't help it. I started writing it a few weeks ago and I actually think the book's going to be a trilogy is what I think. So yeah. this one is going to be called in my mind, the Palermo connection. And I'm not going to, I can't tell anything about it because I don't want to give away any spoilers, but yes, certain characters carry on.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah. And okay. This is something I'm also so curious about. Like when you're writing fiction, where are these people living? Like, are you channeling their voice? How does that work? Where does it come from?

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, you know, one of my biggest tips that I give people that I say is that I get my butt in the seat every day and I write about 2000 words. And right now I'm writing less because I'm on tour and I'm, you know, really tired, but I still write every day. And I think that when you do that, the characters come alive in a very interesting way. And they come to you from all different places. some of it is just like the depths of your brain and some of it is maybe somewhere else. Like, you know, like Marianne DeMarco, my favorite medium said, like maybe like our ancestors are whispering in our ears. So the muses are whispering in our ears. But I think that when you put in that work on anything creative, then it just lives with you all the time, but it has to do with getting your butt into that seat.

• Speaker #1

  And speaking about mediums, I mean, there's a lot of talk. of spirituality and mysticism in the book, which I know is such a huge part of Sicilian culture. I love the part, by the way, about the goddess. That was really important to me because this is something interesting. I've been going around saying, like, I think it's rude that we call it Greek mythology because that wasn't a myth to some people. Like, how dare we say that? How would you like it if somebody said, like, Christian mythology or, like, Jewish mythology? Like, no, that was what they believed in. And who's to say it's not true? We don't know. I love that part. And I've always thought the saints are so great because they're kind of like... the gods and goddesses from Greek mythology. And I love that you actually drew that connection between Mother Mary and this goddess. Could you talk a little bit about that?

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, absolutely. I mean, one of the weird random things about me is that I also have a master's degree in religious studies from NYU. And so I think about religion a lot. And I think about the stories we tell ourselves and how we characterize some things as mythology and some things as literal fact. Now, I mean, this does go back to like Sicily's very varied history. You've had the Phoenicians there, the Greeks, the Romans. And everyone has brought their stories and their gods and their goddesses. And the Sicilian women have really held on to different aspects of those goddesses every time a new religion has been introduced and folded those stories into the religion as they wanted to practice it. And so, you know, the Virgin Mary has been imbued with a lot of... the characteristics of the goddess Astarte, of the goddesses Diana and Athena. And if you look at the Virgin Mary statues in a lot, especially the mountain towns in Sicily, they are goddesses. This is not like a small woman, a small mother holding the baby where the baby is like the most important part of this. She takes up space. she's often wearing a dress that is in the shape of a triangle. Like she is the mountain and her halo isn't a little halo. It is a crown of moon and stars. And so they've really just transferred all of that respect and that reverence through the ages. And yeah, I mean, I think there's such a mishmash of like what we're allowed to call religion and what we call mythology again, because. And so much of it has been written by men, used for political control. And I think our views of history and religion would be much different if it was women writing them.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, I love that part. And I'm curious for you, because I do believe spirituality and creativity, honestly, are like one.

• Speaker #0

  I do too. Yeah.

• Speaker #1

  What role does spirituality play in your life and creative process?

• Speaker #0

  Oh, you know, I'm very spiritual and I don't believe in God is the thing. You know, I believe in muses. I believe in, you know, being influenced by the people who came before us. My biggest problem with religion is the patriarchy, to be honest. And I believe in the community aspects of religion and hate all of the rule aspects of religion, the majority of which have been devised to keep women down. it's tricky. It's a tricky balance, to be honest. I wrote an entire book about badass feminist Catholic nuns called If Nuns Ruled the World. And I'm like, if I had to, you know, subscribe to a religion, I would just subscribe to what nuns do. Because they are just like the living embodiment of caring for people. And they've really taken on a lot of the patriarchal aspects of the Catholic Church when they can. I think religion can be incredibly comforting and also incredibly dangerous.

• Speaker #1

  I'm curious because obviously your heritage has guided you so much in creating this work. Do you have any advice for people who want to start incorporating their culture and heritage into their creative work more? Like where is a starting point or a question they could even ask themselves?

• Speaker #0

  Well, you know, I mean, I think travel is actually always the starting point. I was a travel editor and writer for a long time. And I know that I'm personally most inspired when I travel. Again, like making sure that you... just sit down and let your creative juices flow when you're traveling and give yourself the space and the time to do that. And I think a lot of that involves getting off of our devices. I think we're glued to our fucking phones and it is ruining our brains and our creativity. And, you know, being mindful of that, they can be incredibly useful tools for connection. And I try to think about them as tools more than anything else, but they can also kill our community and our creativity. And we have to be mindful how we're using them.

• Speaker #1

  yeah I know you've got you briefly mentioned it but the Sicilian Inheritance podcast yeah is it still in progress

• Speaker #0

  I was only able to listen to the trailer oh well there's seven episodes out right now yeah the seventh just released today okay so there's seven episodes um but it's literally still being reported and created as we speak like I'm actually getting text messages right now from my team asking me to review something you

• Speaker #1

  are you still in the process of trying to solve the murder?

• Speaker #0

  I am. Yeah.

• Speaker #1

  If you're willing to share or even point toward an episode, but like what is the most wild thing you found out so far?

• Speaker #0

  Well, I can give something away that's not the hugest spoiler because it's in a pretty early episode, but it's pretty crazy. We went back to Sicily. All I had was my great-great-grandmother's birthday. which I got from Ellis Island Records because, you know, people say who they left behind and they often give their birthdays and her sons and her husband left her behind. So I had that. And when I went to the town hall through her birthday, in her birth records, there was an annotation for the year that she died. And then we pulled out this big book of death, but there's no computers in the town hall. It's just all handwritten entries, this massive, like two foot tall book. the book of death from 1916. Every person in town that has died is written in there. And she wasn't in the front of it, like the first section of it. And you know, I went into this thing, like she wasn't even murdered. The story's crazy. And then she was in the second section, section B, which I was then told is reserved for deaths by unnatural causes. So accidents and homicides. But the biggest revelation we got was that she was killed at the exact same time in the exact same place as someone else, as a man named Niccolo Martino, who my family had never heard of, five kilometers outside of town. feels incredibly suspicious for many reasons. And that is kind of the launching point for where we're going to go in the rest of the podcast.

• Speaker #1

  Wow. Well, everybody check it out. Check out Joe's book. I mean, don't just check it out, buy it. And it's also an incredible audio book I read. And then I also paired it with the audio book. It really brings you into the world with that.

• Speaker #0

  it does it does and you know you don't have to do one or the other because there's no there's separate worlds so there's no spoilers which I which I like to to remind people of but I love them both like the audiobook our audio narrators are so good I'm obsessed with them I auditioned so many women for those roles but then the podcast the Sicilian Inheritance is also just a lot of fun and it's what I'm hoping I mean it's true crime ish true crime adjacent but it's really like come with me on an adventure to Sicily

• Speaker #1

  And it's an invitation to look at your own family history and see what stories you have to tell. So thank you for doing that, Jo, for being so encouraging of other women and storytellers and just for believing in yourself and putting your voice out there. It is inspiring to everybody. And you are a great example for all the people listening who have a story on their heart that they want to share.

• Speaker #0

  Oh, I love it. Thank you so much. I loved this interview.

• Speaker #1

  Thank you. I did, too. Thank you for listening. And thanks to my guest, Joe Piazza. For more info on Joe, follow her at JoePiazzaAuthor and visit her website, JoePiazza.com. Get The Sicilian Inheritance wherever good books are sold and check out The Sicilian Inheritance podcast wherever you get your pods. Thanks to Rachel Fulton for helping edit and associate produce this episode. Follow her at Rachel M. Fulton. Thanks to Liz Full for the show's theme music. Follow her at Liz Full. And again, thank you. If you like what you heard today, remember to rate, review, and follow the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Share the show with a friend and post about it on social media. Tag me at Lauren LaGrasso and at Unleash Your Inner Creative, and I will repost to share my gratitude. Also, tag the guest at Joe Piazza Author so she can share as well. My wish for you this week is that you find the courage to uncover and share the stories that resonate deeply within you. especially family stories. Embrace your heritage, follow any creative passion you have. And remember, your unique perspective is a gift to the world. I love you and I believe in you. Talk with you next week.