Transcription

• Speaker #0

  Have you ever noticed how the world treats motherhood and creativity like they can't coexist? Like somehow becoming a mother means less ambition, less creativity, being less yourself. Over the years of hosting this podcast, there's something really interesting that I found out. And that is that every single woman I've had on the pod, and there have been hundreds of them, who are mothers, have had their greatest success post-child. It would seem that the success came not despite being a mother, but rather because of becoming a mother. And that realization completely shifted the way I think about creativity, ambition, our personal goals, including motherhood. Because if you're a woman, especially a creative woman, the messaging around motherhood can honestly be terrifying. We're taught that becoming a parent means losing yourself, losing momentum, losing creativity. The more women I talk to, the more I realize the opposite is actually true. And that's what we're going to talk about today. Welcome to Unleash Your Inner Creative with Lauren LaGrasso. I'm Lauren LaGrasso. I'm a three-time Webby Award-winning host, podcast producer, singer-songwriter, public speaker, and creative coach. And this show is meant to give you tools to claim your birthright to creativity and go after your wildest dreams. Today, I'm talking with comedian and writer Jenny Hogan, whose work I've loved for years because she's both hilarious and deeply honest about modern womanhood, ambition, body image, identity, politics, and motherhood. In this conversation, we talk about creativity and productivity after having a child, the pressures women feel around career and motherhood, pregnancy and body image, and how becoming a parent can reconnect you to your humanity, intuition, and creative power. This conversation made me feel less alone during a huge life transition that I'm in right now. And I know it's going to resonate deeply with you, whether you're a parent, you want to be a parent or not. Okay, let's get into it. Here she is, Ginny Hogan. Ginny, I am so excited to have you on Unleash Your Inner Creative. You're such a brilliant creative mind and your threads have made me laugh on many dark days. So thank you for being here.

• Speaker #1

  I'm so happy to be here. That's so nice of you to say. Thank you.

• Speaker #0

  It's really the truth. So I have really, as I've I'm now four months pregnant, 24 weeks. I think that is correct.

• Speaker #1

  Congratulations.

• Speaker #0

  Thank you. And as I've gone through my pregnancy, like I was a fan of yours before, but I've loved how much you've talked about pregnancy and motherhood and incorporated it into your comedy. And I've just been thinking about it a lot because we get so much messaging around pregnancy and motherhood and what it does to your career. And a lot of it's like really, really toxic and I think untrue. And... I was telling you when I reached out to you on my podcast, what finally started changing my ideas around motherhood and like how I could do it is that every single woman I've had on my show has had her greatest creative success post-child. So I was like, oh, that's interesting. It's like so opposite from the story we're told. And so I wanted to talk a little bit about that and yeah, how it has like some of the messaging you got around pregnancy and motherhood and then how it has effect. your comedy and your creativity and all that.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, totally. Well, firstly, congratulations. Are you starting to feel better now? I know four months is kind of when sometimes the morning sickness subsides.

• Speaker #0

  The morning sickness started subsiding for me around 16 weeks. I had evening sickness. You were sick too, right?

• Speaker #1

  I had morning sickness. Yeah.

• Speaker #0

  Morning. Yeah.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah.

• Speaker #0

  So I didn't know it could strike at any time of day. So that was interesting. I mean, it just came in. And so So I was, I actually listened back. to a podcast you did with Cam and Karen Lee. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you were talking about how like you were trying to eat like the first four weeks. I was like, Oh my god, or like not four weeks. I found out I was pregnant four weeks. And then I was okay from four weeks to eight weeks. And so I was like, I'm gonna eat salmon. And I'm gonna have all these vegetables and be so healthy for the baby. And then eight weeks hit and I was like, Oh, it's just a game of survival now.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah. Yeah, that's really what it is. Yeah.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. So it's been much better since then. But I'm still I've always been a person who can kind of like push myself through anything. And I've been surprised at how different that is.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, I know what you mean. The exhaustion is not like you can't caffeinate your way out of it. And I drank coffee the whole time. Like I didn't even really try to measure how much. And like there were times where I was just so tired that I was like coffee is not even going to help. I just have to like close my eyes and then wake up like three hours later. So I, yeah, it is, it is brutal.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. Yeah. It's a different level and type of exhaustion.

• Speaker #1

  Yes. Yeah. Yeah. It's like a very like full body thing. There is like I did have I don't think I was super stressed during my pregnancy. I was just so tired. But then I got iron infusions at like maybe like week 31 and they were a game changer. So I do. That's my big recommendation. If you're iron deficient, the infusion is like so much better than the pills. But that's sorry. Let me I got I'm sidetracked.

• Speaker #0

  I was like no I'm actually kind of curious about that because I haven't been taking iron because like

• Speaker #1

  the vitamins made me so sick like yeah that's interesting to me i want to ask you more about that off air go go deep on the iron yeah that's like my one recommendation um other than i don't think anything particularly productive in pregnancy um but in terms of like yeah creativity post pregnancy i'm i'm so glad we're talking about it because i had a lot of concerns about whether i would like honestly like work at all which is kind of insane because we it wouldn't really work out with my family like if my husband if I weren't working we would have to have a different lifestyle my husband is like like we couldn't like live where we live in New York City and stuff um and I uh so yeah not working is wasn't even really an option but I still really worried that I I wouldn't be able to but I have I have felt more productive since pregnancy or sorry since giving birth and I think like part of it is that um well I got so bored on uh maternity leave and I I think we need like way more generous maternity leaves. But I think the other thing that is true is that like for a lot of women, the first few weeks are not the most intense time. So it was like my baby was just asleep all the time, except she was up like every like two or three hours. So I couldn't really sleep. But there also wasn't that much to do because it was just like I'd feed her and she'd go back to sleep. So I started writing a book actually at like four weeks postpartum. I asked my friend. Carlos Greaves, who's a humor writer, if he wanted to write a book with me. And I do think he never said this, but I do think he thought I was insane because I was like, we're exposed for now. But I was like, I'm like, really? Like, my baby is literally asleep all the time. Um, I think Yeah, so I, I did feel like right away, I just kind of needed something that was a more like, kind of like using my brain, basically. And a big part of it is just that I was not getting any sleep. So I was literally just like awake and scrolling on my phone. And then I went back. to work I work at um I work at a company called Betches and I have another a couple other like freelance jobs I went back to those at like two months postpartum but the big thing for me is that they were all from home so I'm like very lucky in that way I think like going back to work in an office all day is like a totally different beast um but yeah like I would I pretty much wanted to I like really didn't want the the time off when she was a newborn now that she's like one and is moving around, I would love to have. it's like when I'm with her I a she doesn't nap that much and b it's like you have to really be like watching her the whole time so now I'm kind of feeling like oh okay I gotta I gotta be um you know like scale things back a little bit but um yeah so that in that sense I felt I found like motherhood a very productive time but then the other thing is like there's just kind of like a need to work more when you have a child because you have to like pay for things I don't know like it just like once like it started like I set up like her college fund and stuff and kind of started doing all the like budgeting. And I was like, oh, I actually just like I have to make more money now. So I have to like kind of pursue more, more job opportunities. And I will say like the one area where I think where I'm really struggling to find balance is like I'm a freelancer and I have kind of paid work and then I have my own passion projects that often. don't pay off for many months, if at all. And I have not been working on the passion projects the way that I would like to. I have been more focused on paid work, which I think is normal. But I do worry about not like I do kind of want to have one long term project that's just like really just for me may or may not work out. And that I have not been able to fit into my life yet.

• Speaker #0

  All that makes total sense. I mean, I wanted to ask you something because I've been feeling that to the feeling of like, I need to make more money since. you know, I got pregnant. And in my family, I am the primary breadwinner. So it's like a lot of pressure. But I was thinking about what you said with that. And like, how do you stay in the like, I'm excited to do this. And I'm wanting to do it for my family, like the positive part of it versus like, the fear and spinning out part of it when you're pursuing these things.

• Speaker #1

  It's definitely so much of both. Like I, yeah, like, I love what I do. I have like a lot of different my hands and a lot of different I don't even know what the expression is. Pots. So it's going to be like irons. Pots, I think is right. Irons sounds a little painful. Hands in pots, you know.

• Speaker #0

  I'm notorious for getting cliches wrong. I'm like the Michael Scott of podcasting.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah. I have a lot of pots. And I enjoy all of them. But then like the other day, someone, you know, I had a quick phone call about like a potential opportunity. And I was like, do I even have time for this? And then I didn't hear back. from it and in that time I started spiraling I was like I need this like I actually like I need this income stream this is how we're gonna like pay for swim lessons or whatever like I started like panicking about a thing that like when when they came to me I was like I don't even know if I can do this and it's not like a ton of money like I don't think I want it so I like I think like that kind of urgency around making money does get in the way of my creativity sometimes um so yeah I have I have not found like a good solution to Like, everything I do is stuff that I enjoy, but I also do feel panicked about all my work growing up. And I think it's not just motherhood. I honestly think, like, I don't know if you're feeling this. I'm feeling panic about AI. Like, I'm feeling like I need to make as much as I can before the AI can make everything or whatever. Which I don't know if that even makes sense because, like, the amount that I'd be able to, like, save in the next year is not going to, like, get my family through art lives. Like, you know, so, like.

• Speaker #0

  like it's gonna have to be a different solution like i'm not gonna like you know yeah but um that's kind of where i'm where i'm at it makes total sense i know i've been feeling the same thing but then i'm like well what if they change money too and then all of the money is irrelevant like yeah i guess you can't the thing i learned from my pregnancy so i i was 36 and three quarters when i got pregnant and when you turn 30 they really start coming at you i mean like You're going to have a hard time. You should freeze your eggs. You should get pregnant right away. And so I kind of convinced myself because the prevalent wisdom was like, if you're over 30, certainly if you're over 35, it will be challenging to get pregnant. I convinced myself I was going to have infertility issues. And I kind of convinced my, I totally did convince my husband of that too. And so lo and behold, first time we tried, I got pregnant. And so... That taught me an important lesson. And it's not one that I'm always able to enact, but that I can pre-plan and like have backup plans without pre-suffering. And I think I've engaged so much of my life, so much of my creative career in this state of like hypervigilance. And like, if I can just plan and account for everything, then I can keep myself safe. And first of all, that's not true. But second of all, like, even if it is like you go on this whole journey of. living a life that might not even ever be yours. And I'm trying to lessen that. But it is hard when you're now responsible for another life.

• Speaker #1

  That's such a good point. I mean, this thing about like pre planning without pre panicking is so wise. I'm going to really try to incorporate that. But yeah, it's hard. It is hard once you have a kid because like, yeah, like there's so much about like I was very into So I'm like sober. And when I got sober, I did go on like a big kind of like spiritual journey or whatever. And like this kind of like putting yourself first and that kind of stuff. But I think it is important. And then you like just kind of can't when you have a kid. And I don't even mean it in a sense of like, oh, parents are so selfless. I think a lot of parents are selfless. But I also think a lot of people without children are selfless. And I don't even know if selflessness is that good of a thing. But I mean, it just kind of like logistically, like when my daughter's screaming, I like have to put her first. because like it's just so unpleasant for me and everyone around us and so like there are so many times where like i have to pee but i'm like holding it in for an hour because of you know she's asleep in the car or whatever and just like the alternative is her screaming and that's not like that's worse to me so there is just this kind of like you just like logistically can't put yourself first and it um it can really be hard for like trying to I guess like there's like a kindness that you need to have in artistic fields. Like you need to be able to go easy on yourself. And sometimes you just like can't when you first have to take care of your child.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. I mean, it sounds like you're still very much in the thick of that. But are there any breakthroughs you've made? Because I know you just celebrated your first year of motherhood slash your daughter's first birthday. Also known as your daughter's first birthday.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah.

• Speaker #0

  Congratulations. That's huge. Is there anything you have had? That like in your own journey of taking care of yourself while taking care of your daughter that has been helpful that you would recommend?

• Speaker #1

  I mean, I have like kind of small like parenting hacks that but that's probably not what you're looking for. But I mean, I found like, yeah, honestly, my the thing that I always go to is breastfeeding. And like, I don't even like, you know, I know that online the debate between. formula in breastfeeding is so toxic. And like, you know, I think everyone should do what they want to do. I've just found breastfeeding to be a lot easier because I like it just is the thing that like kind of shuts her up. But in turn, I think you're asking for like a bigger marketing for breastfeeding.

• Speaker #0

  That is really compelling.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, I was on a plane with her. Well, twice in the last two weeks. And like if I hadn't been breastfeeding, I don't know what we would have done. And it was really it was bad even with the breastfeeding. But like, that was kind of our only reprieve. So, yeah, that's my that is kind of how I've that's how I've survived the last year. I've just been I honestly feel like I've been breastfeeding like pretty much constantly for a year. But I think in terms of, yeah, like trying to trying to find balance. I mean, she goes to daycare now and that's like huge. And there's this like I do feel more productive in the time that she's in daycare than I used to when I just. before she was born when all of my time was my own like i feel like i have to kind of make make the most of it um i think yeah just trying to um i mean i don't think this is necessarily a healthy way to look at it but it is like i'm now paying four hours for myself to work basically like that's kind of what daycare is so i have to make the most of it um which is like a very kind of like you know capitalist way of looking at time but it's also sort of how things work so i That's real. That's like. Yeah, that's kind of what I I think about, like if I am to like waste an hour, it's like, OK, is it worth like this amount of money? But then I mean, I still like nap and stuff like it's not like I just like grind in my computer all day when she's in daycare. But it is like I do have more of an awareness about like the value of of time.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, that's so interesting. I mean, I hear from a lot of moms that they feel they're more productive post having a baby. One thing I definitely noticed about you just from. reading your tweets, like I can tell that you're a highly productive, highly driven person. And then I heard you say it on another podcast. So I was like, Oh, okay. I was picking up on the right energy. Do you feel like you've struggled with that? Like you've talked about in the past, how you've had like workaholism? Have you struggled with that with being like, okay, right now I just like have to be in mom mode and then I can do my work later. How have you balanced that as you've been going through?

• Speaker #1

  I've struggled with it a lot and I have a lot of guilt about it and like Part of the thing is like I can do so much for my phone, like so much of my work is social media based that like I really can like get some work done while I'm with her. But I feel bad doing it. And it like the other thing that complicates it is that it's getting harder and harder. So it used to be like I'd be with her all day, but she was mostly sleeping. So, of course, I could just like be on my phone. And now and then it was like, oh, you know, she's just like lying there kind of like batting in her mobile. So like, what's the big deal? But now, like, I really do feel like she benefits from like. constant interaction and like it also prevents her from screaming and i feel really guilty but i still do like if they're like it's like she'll you know she has toys that like make noises and she'll get really into them and can be there for like three or four minutes and when she's doing that and i'm watching her i'm like oh maybe i should just like tweet something and and i feel bad like i i don't know like it's like there's this like kind of flip side to like the um flexibility of like remote work and, and. work from your phone that's like you never like leave an office and like I posted this the other day because it was honestly how I felt but I've been watching the pit with my husband and like I do get jealous like they just they're just like at their shift and they're not on the phone and then they leave their shift and they're not at work and I'm like oh that would be kind of nice like yeah it's severance without having to sever yes exactly yeah yeah so like I I have a lot of guilt about it. Like, I'm... And I try to, like, I'll do things, like, I put my phone in the other room. But then I want to take pictures of her. I don't know, like, it's, yeah, I do a lot of, I mean, I do a lot of, like, leaving my phone in the other room. But I guess the other thing that, like, for me, I used to disconnect from the world by, like, leaving my phone at home and going on walks. But I don't, I wouldn't go out with my daughter without my phone. I would just be, like, a little paranoid. So now I don't even really have that unless I'm going on a walk, like, when she's in daycare. So, yeah, it's a process for sure. I feel like I'm not like I want to be giving you like positive. I mean,

• Speaker #0

  I think it's helpful to hear how much in the thick of it you still are, but you're still doing so much. Like it's not like you're I mean, I've resonated with your work even more since you've had a baby and, you know, been a mother. So, like, I think that that's really encouraging and it's good to hear the realistic side of it, which is that. you're still figuring it out. Like you're, you know, being creative, you've got great output, you've got all these amazing gigs and you're still figuring out what does this actually look like in this moment? And then long-term for me as like a human, a creative, a mother. all the things.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, that's definitely true. Like I do feel like on any given week, I feel like I have a handle on things. And I'm like, you know, I know what I'm going to work I need to do, I can like get everything done. And then like, the long term has become a little bit more difficult in part because I don't have like a long term project right now. And then in part, because like, there's like a more of a need for stability. And so I have like kind of more stress. But you know what's interesting is like I... I used to like, as much as I love working, I would get so burnt out that I would think that I just like didn't want to work and wanted to kind of like be a nomad and find some other way of surviving in the world. Just I don't know, like without like sort of any kind of nine to five type thing. And I couldn't imagine doing that a lot more before I had a daughter because I would like just imagine myself like going to new places and like spending the whole day walking around. But now that I like have a daughter and I can't leave. New York City very often because she goes to daycare and soon she'll be in school. I do feel more it's easier for me to commit more to my work because I'm like, oh, I have to be here anyway. Like I have to go pick her up from daycare at 430. So like I should at least use the time. I can't go anywhere, you know, like I can't like I should. So I should use the time before then. Well, and that might be sort of specific to me. But like I think like this sense of like it was easier for me to imagine not working. like people talk about like becoming like a stay-at-home mom but I could more easily imagine being like a non-working person without a child basically whereas now like the idea of like not working while I'm like just in my apartment and then I would just be like waiting to pick her up and that would be my day like that to me sounds like a nightmare which isn't like obviously a lot of people enjoy it but it would not it would not work for me

• Speaker #0

  I'm with you I mean the thing you also said about starting a book four weeks postpartum I'm like I've been going at such a clip my whole life. It's really hard to imagine. Just not doing any of that, you know? But I also, I've never ever had a time in my life where I'm like, I don't know who I'll be. Like, I don't know what I'll be. I don't know how I'll be physically. I don't know how I'll be emotionally. So, like, I am fully planning to take two months off. But that's a mindfuck of not knowing who or what you'll be.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah. And you don't know who your baby will be either. Like, that's such a... That's the thing. I had a very easy newborn and she did have difficult periods, but her first couple months, she was easy. So like that for me was a big thing. Like if she'd had colic or been crying all the time, I would not have been like eager to be working. I would have been very like, you know, kind of caught up in it, but she was just like a chill baby.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. Yeah. That's great. I mean, it's so interesting too, because one thing that I've noticed even more than like, cause I got married last summer. So people project a lot on you when you're in a relationship, when you're engaged when you're getting married. But the level of projection people have for you as a pregnant person and a parent to be is wild. And I am having a boy. And one thing people keep being like is like, boys are crazy. Get ready. They're going to be wild. I'm like, you don't know my son. I don't even know my son. Do you have a crystal ball? Have you seen into the future? My husband's chill. Why couldn't it be that my son could be chilled too? What's some of the most wild projection you got either while pregnant or since you've been parenting? And how did you deal with that?

• Speaker #1

  I think one thing I'm struggling with is like, so one part of my career that has not I don't feel like is is moving at the pace I want to stand up. So I do stand up and I used to do it like every night. And there's just no way I'm going to do it every night in the future. Like I think at most twice a week is like realistic. But I think what really bothered me during pregnancy was people just assuming that I was going to like quit altogether um and i kind of feel like i started like i kind of stopped getting booked on things um and that has been a real mind fuck because like there were so many parents who do stand up and there were so many dads who do stand up like i don't know i just feel like you would not make that assumption about like a man who was having a child um so that's been like a real yeah that's definitely been a mind fuck i feel like people um yeah i think they kind of like they assume you'll never be free again you like to do things socially yeah um i'm like i'm still a person yeah exactly and like i still need time away from her like it wouldn't even be healthy for either of us to spend all our time together plus i have a husband like who can watch her i don't know it just like i think it's like a i think people also there's like this kind of outdated assumption that men like are gonna do the child care which i understand i understand a lot of men still fall short but i think a lot of men also do kind of step up and do like a good amount of it so i'm like no if you like if someone wants to go like see a movie with me on the weekend i can totally do that you know like i have to plan it a little bit further in advance than i used to but like I think people assume that you're just like never going to be available again.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, it's so true. I mean, I'm not a stand up, but I do speaking public speaking and people. So like that has been an interesting thing because I'm like, oh, my God, are people not going to book me because like now I'm pregnant. So that that's been interesting. But the other thing is, like, I've had a few people ask me, like, oh, are you going to keep working? And I was like, what?

• Speaker #1

  Yeah.

• Speaker #0

  Again, first of all, it's not an option. But second of all, even if it was. I would never not want to work. And that's fine if you are somebody who just wants to focus on being a parent, but that is not my truth. And it's so interesting that that's the question instead of how do you feel about your career post-child or like, what are you excited to do once you become a parent? You know, it's like, it's just, and it's like, it was like someone I was actually working with, they had hired me to help them with their podcasts. And I was like, that's so interesting that you asked me that.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah. Well, Lauren, are you self-employed?

• Speaker #0

  I am about to be. So I've been working for a company for a long time. And then at the end of April, I'm like finally going fully into self-employment.

• Speaker #1

  Okay, cool. Yeah, I do think like, well, I guess it's a little different if you're working in a company, but like because we're in like creative fields, I think that there's also just like, and I noticed this way before I was pregnant. Like, I think people just don't sometimes don't assume that I work. or like don't know what work entails for me. And it is confusing. Like it was, I used to be a data scientist and that was a lot simpler. I just like had one job at one company, but like now I think people don't really know what I'm doing for work. So they weren't sure already. And then with the child, they just kind of assumed that I wasn't. So I definitely, like a lot of people kind of assuming that I wasn't working and it, I've gotten used to it, but it is like a thing that annoyed me a lot. I don't know.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. Yeah. Well, you do so many different things when you work. You write for a billion publications. I was on your website. It's amazing. Oh, thank you. And, you know, you've got. Are your threads monetized?

• Speaker #1

  No, I'm so. You should be. That's crazy.

• Speaker #0

  You get so much engagement.

• Speaker #1

  Thank you. I my Instagram is monetized, but I get less engagement on there. I have like I've like commented in the threads, guys. It's embarrassing. But like in his replies being like, Adam, I should be monetized.

• Speaker #0

  yes I never know how to say his name please yeah that would be huge for me just like to get paid for the thing I'm already doing anyway it's always my dream yeah but also that you have so much like honestly okay I feel like we need to like brainstorm after this so we could figure out how that can happen yeah hi creative if listening to this conversation is stirring something up in you and you're realizing you want support bringing your own creative vision to life you I would love to help. In my creative coaching practice, I work with artists, entrepreneurs, leaders, multi-passionate humans, and people in the middle of major life transitions who know that there's something inside of them that they want to express, but they need help to get unstuck, get clear, and actually start moving. Whether you're trying to start a project, make a career pivot, reconnect with your creativity, or trust yourself more deeply, this is the work we can do together. My approach blends creative strategy, mindset, and deep inner work. So we make the project, but you're not just making things. You're also becoming more fully yourself in the process. If that calls to you, I would love to connect. You can book a free 15-minute discovery call at laurenlagrasso.com or by emailing me lauren.lagrasso at gmail.com. Okay, back to the show. I think when you're cobbling together a career of multiple creative streams it does confuse people i mean it confuses me so like of course it's going to confuse them but it's just interesting that instead of being like oh how have you put together your career how are you planning to do it post child they're like so you're gonna keep doing this thing or not yeah

• Speaker #1

  yeah yeah it is it really is like that like i don't know like and i think people like kind of there's so much of a discussion about how expensive child care is and child care is really expensive, but... it is still very expensive to like quitting your job is also expensive, but to like not work and like be a stay home parent is still like to, I mean, for us that was a lot less affordable. Like, and we, cause we live in a neighborhood in New York that I wouldn't call the childcare like affordable in an absolute sense, but relative to New York city it is. And like, yeah, I think it's like, um, no, it is like, I mean, if like when people like totally quit their jobs and they have children, I do think of that as kind of like a, as like a very, yeah. Luxury. Yeah.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. I think that that's how it used to be looked at. Like I heard the reason why women stopped working back in the day, because like women used to work the fields and stuff and like farm with their husbands and like run family businesses. You know, we're bakers and all that. But apparently it was like a status symbol to the men back in the day for their woman to be a stay-at-home wife and mother. And so that's how like this became a thing apparently. And I think that that's still kind of true. If you're able to be a stay-at-home parent at all, it indicates that at least one person or there was like some sort of situation where there was enough wealth for you to rely on one person's income.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, totally. Did you? This is maybe a side tangent, but actually totally. Did you read Strangers by Bell Burden?

• Speaker #0

  No, but I've been seeing the interviews with Oprah.

• Speaker #1

  Oh, yeah. I mean, it's like everywhere now. It's so phenomenal. But she's like a stay at home mom. She was like a lawyer. And then she but she's from a very wealthy family. And then she married her husband, who's also from a wealthy family, less wealthy. And then he was like a hedge fund guy. And she was like a stay at home. mom for many years and it does i mean her like the premise is kind of that she's living this like very luxurious life and then her husband leaves her um but it does really like her kind of it makes you feel like oh you need to have like so much wealth on both sides for someone not to work which isn't isn't true and i understand also a lot of people like you know one of them you know someone loses their job and then they make it work with just one income but like yeah it does feel like this kind of like like their story is a very like old new york money story um and it's the book is phenomenal um and it's a lot about like how she didn't protect herself financially in the relationship um yeah and even like this like very wealthy woman could get screwed by her ex-husband um so yeah it's just like a great read but i do yeah i mean like this idea that that people will stop working when they have a baby it does feel very outdated and it's like yeah i don't even like i also like the people i know when they quit their jobs it's normally like they're quitting their jobs temporarily or they're like thinking about going into the field. They're like super burnt out.

• Speaker #0

  My friend did that for a while. She had twins and she was just like for six months, I'm going to quit my job and just be here with them because there's two of them and it's a lot. And so she did that. She did some freelance work like while she was doing that. And then she had another job. I want to say it was like maybe it was six to nine months, you know, and when things felt a little bit more stable. So, I mean, anything that works for anyone is great. I just think. It's so interesting how comfortable people feel projecting that idea or life path onto a pregnant woman who is career driven.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, especially like I think like people, you know, like there's this big panic about like women having babies like in their 30s or in their 40s and like that they were focused on their careers before having children. But then it's like, OK, so we were focused on our careers and then we kind of. got to a stable place in our careers and then we had children and but so why would why would we then want to give up our careers after like you know like we the whole like it just feels like it's sort of like contradicts it's almost like getting criticized on both ends basically it's like yeah a you're getting criticized for having waited too long to have kids but then b you're also getting criticized for like the thing that you were waiting because of isn't considered i'm not saying this particularly but it's not like being valued basically yeah

• Speaker #0

  No, I mean, I think it goes to the typical thing, which is like, we can really do nothing, right?

• Speaker #1

  Yes.

• Speaker #0

  Have you seen that meme when it's like, what it's like to be a woman? You're in your teens, like, don't get pregnant. In your 20s, You're too young to be pregnant. And then like, you hit your 30s, it's like, pregnant now, now, now, now, now. And then late 30s, it's like, aren't you a little old to be pregnant?

• Speaker #1

  Yeah. Yes, that's exactly right. Yeah. Yeah.

• Speaker #0

  So it just goes. you know, that we can't win. I love, I mean, I don't love that you talk about this because I hate that you felt that way, but I relate that you talk about like food and eating disorders and like pregnancy. I think that this like body image thing isn't something that's discussed enough when you get pregnant. I also have a history of eating disorders from when I was younger. I was bulimic and have struggled with that my whole life. And it's so weird. to walk in front of the mirror and see my belly like out and be like, oh, for the first time in my life, that's okay. It's like confusing for a minute. And even just, I mean, in a weird way, it kind of has healed certain parts of my relationship with my body where I'm like, oh, this is exactly what my body's supposed to do. And I actually like never should have been hard on myself for when it like was quote unquote imperfect. And like, oh, I need to nourish my body because I need to nourish my baby. Um, but I'm just curious how you kind of dealt with that. And yeah, why do you think people don't talk about this more? Because I'm sure it's not just something that poof goes away for most women. When we get pregnant.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, totally. I mean, I think like in the article when I was kind of doing research, there was like a lot of women felt like pregnancy was a particularly rough time for their eating disorder. But there were other women who felt like it actually did improve things. So it's not all bad. But I think one of the mind fucks for me was like other people's comments and always positive, like, you know, optimistic and happy and like, oh, look at that, like your baby's really growing or whatever. And like I hated it. And, you know, like, but I didn't want to like, I try not to. I, you know, if someone is well intentioned, I know that they're not trying to, you know, it's just like a built in thing.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah.

• Speaker #1

  But I like I as a rule never comment on anyone's body. And so, like, if I haven't seen someone in months and then I see them and they're like nine months pregnant, I still would like pretend not to notice, which is kind of also weird, I think. But like, I do that, too. yeah i just have so much baggage around it that i'm like i'm just not gonna come they don't they know they're pregnant they don't need me to tell them um yeah so i think i find it really um i found it to be really like a mindfuck also like getting weighed although i then like stopped asking to be weighed and would just like tell they would be like okay you have to just tell us the weight and i would just like make up a number which is fine um through pregnancy you did that yeah like at the doctor's offices oh that's cool i did that when i wasn't pregnant

• Speaker #0

  It's just such a weird thing that like. You haven't even met me yet. You don't even like know my middle name and you're going to throw me on a scale like that's not a great way to build trust.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I found it like also like because I've had eating disorders, I can't really tell when I'm hungry in a very easy way. And like so the pregnancy, like it was difficult because I knew I had to eat more and I would have like I would just feel really bad in certain ways, but I didn't know if it was hunger. so like that also like on a physical level really complicated things um and the same has been true of breastfeeding i will say i do think that um both pregnancy and breastfeeding i don't think they healed my relationship with like body image but they have improved my relationship with food in that like i don't skip meals anymore because i like can't like i'll just get lightheaded um so and i like do really try to like eat protein every like three hours or something like it's i used to like I would skip meals all the time and would just like have fruit for dinner and stuff. So I that has been an improvement, but it hasn't really fixed like the underlying problem of like, you know, kind of how I actually feel about my body. But I find it. Yeah, I do. I guess what is like the biggest mindfuck is just this idea that like when you're a woman, you're supposed to be small. all the time and that's like all the messaging you get from society and then as soon as you get pregnant you're supposed to be big and like you're supposed to be really happy about that and you know like and everyone's gonna tell you that you are and you're supposed to be so grateful and like you know and then as soon as you give birth you're supposed you know you have a little grace period and then you're supposed to be small again and it's like it's just like a really like it's it's complicated um and i hate like if i even just like see online you know someone is being meaner at a celebrity's body and then someone else is like go easy on her she just had a baby and it's like She's just like, you know, it's like the implication is like, don't worry, she'll get back to being like the perfect woman archetype again soon when it's like maybe she just looks like that now or whatever. Like the way she looks is fine. And like, it's fine to look like it's like it's not as though women look bad right after they had babies. Like your body looks different, but you don't look bad. And so it's like, I don't know. I just yeah, it's just this idea that like you get this little window where your expectations are different, but then they like immediately revert back.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. It is so interesting. I mean, I think a big part of what has healed, I've done a lot of healing work around my body in the past few years. And I think that really helped. But I was interested by how this has like uptick some of the things, but then also helped me get back to some of the things. So I'm like, I have to eat like, you know, it's less about, oh, what am I eating? And like, is this healthy and more? It's like, will this fuel my body in the way I need to, to get through the day and to like grow my baby? the way I need to. So it's like kind of like looking at food in a more logical way, which has helped me. And then the whole thing about like the tummy being out and it's supposed to be out. The weirdest thing has been for me, I'm 24 weeks. I still feel like in some outfits, I don't look pregnant enough. And I'm in this weird in between place where I have a bump, but it still probably to some people could look like bloat. And I'm like. I'm going to push my stomach out more when I go to events. So people really know I'm pregnant. It's not that I don't know how to dress myself. I'm just pregnant. But yeah, it's really interesting. And I think it does bring stuff up. And I don't think people talk about it enough. Like they talk about it in the very general sense of like, oh, I gained weight, but not the more intricate things it brings up with your psyche around eating and food and body.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, I, I do relate to that. I definitely felt more self-conscious, like, end of my first trimester, kind of first half of my senior trimester, because, like, I, you know, it was winter, like, I was in, in coats, you couldn't really tell I was pregnant. By the time I looked really pregnant, I was like, well, now I just look pregnant, like, this is better, like, but I did just, like, feel, like, I, I, like, ran into, like, an ex-boyfriend when I was, like, four months pregnant, and I just was like, oh, my God, like, I just looked like shit, whatever, and you can't tell I'm pregnant, I'm not gonna, like, bring it up. Yeah, I think, like, the underlying thing is really, like, just this sort of, like, the quickness with which you're supposed to adjust, basically. And, like, you're supposed to take so much, like, kind of, like, the pressures of, like, being a, you know, like, a womanhood then immediately collide with, like, the pressures of motherhood where, like, you're supposed to take, like, the ultimate care of your baby, which means, like, you have to eat a lot. And you're so selfish if you don't. So, like, immediately, it's just, like, this really quick switch from, like, you should eat, you know, like, you should be small, but, like, you need to eat as much as possible or else you're, like, being selfish and not feeding your baby. I think that that is sort of, like, that was a real mindfuck for me. My baby was small and, like, she was healthy, but, like, I do think that even, like, towards the end, I don't think I looked as pregnant as, as, like, people expect me to sometimes. And there, sometimes I felt like I was, like, being judged for that, which also is just, like, kind of, like.

• Speaker #0

  shitty because it's like the reverse of what women always get judged for basically like it just kind of was like you know like what you're saying like you can't win if you're a woman you know it's just yeah either way and that's why i do think it's like that's why i have gone on this healing journey with my body because i recognize the outside world first of all with everything they're never going to approve of you across the board so why keep looking for your worth and other people's gaze but also i've never i was super skinny at one point you I was super heavy at one point, like during all those times, like I never was happy with my body. So like maybe I can just learn to love myself wherever I am. And it's not to say that I won't still struggle at times. But that that shift has helped me a lot because I want to be happy in my own skin. And I'm grateful to have a body and I'm grateful to be able to like, I know it sounds corny, but you went on a spiritual journey. So you'll understand like I have like hands that work and feet. that work and legs that work and I can see and I can taste and I can hear. And it's like, instead of looking for all the things that are wrong, like how can I actually be in relationship and be like, okay, today I don't feel that great, but it's okay because I'm working on it and maybe I will tomorrow. So looking at it more holistically and like trying to at least be satisfied or neutral with where I'm at versus always thinking I should be doing better.

• Speaker #1

  Totally. You know what really did change things for me? It didn't solve the problem, but it

• Speaker #0

  it was an improvement was like actually like delivering my baby was wild and like I was like oh my body is like kind of amazing like it is really insane that women's bodies can do this um yeah yeah speak on that like tell tell me more about how that well first of all like what was your birthing experience like and then how that shifted things for you and your relationship with yourself and your body.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, totally. So I didn't. feel connected to my baby in utero. In fact, I think my husband did more like we would be at the doctor and like see her on the ultrasound and my husband would be like, almost crying just like looking at the gray image. And I was like, so tired. I was like, I can't like whatever, like I was just exhausted. I yeah, I didn't like pregnancy. And I don't think I felt like an emotional connection. And then like, I felt like a very strong connection as soon as she was born, which is good. Like I didn't have bad postpartum depression, which I'm grateful for. But my my birthing experience was like pretty pretty um not nothing seriously went wrong my water broke um i went to the hospital i wasn't dilated so or yeah i wasn't dilated so they induced me um which i didn't think was gonna work because i other women i knew had been induced all ended up having c-sections so i was kind of like let's just do a c-section now and they were like no let's try this this is like you're gonna have a better recovery if you can avoid a c-section so after You're like... I got an epidural. I couldn't feel anything. And then after like 12 hours, I was fully dilated and the pushing was only like 20 minutes. It was really not like, yeah, it was. Yeah. Mostly, most of it was just me, like kind of like half sleeping because the epidural like really was really good. Huge fan. And then my daughter came out and like the, I mean, I had in my last trimester, I had gotten really into this gentle yoga class that was in my neighborhood that was It's just like... yoga for old people I would go at like uh like 10 a.m on Wednesdays and like I was obsessed with the teacher and she was like obsessed with like you know giving me there were only three of us there and like giving me really detailed um stretches to do to improve my delivery whatever so I was really like loose in my hips and like I'd just been like super like doing all of these like hip stretches for months um And yeah, like it was so like the pushing went well and I just felt so powerful after. And I think it was the impar like being kind of high from the epidural. But I was like, I think until I birthed my daughter, I didn't really believe that I could. Like, even though I had been pregnant for nine months and like, even though I knew that that's what was going to happen. And like nothing, you know, like nothing had gone wrong in my pregnancy. There was no indication that. I wasn't going to have a smooth delivery, but I still was like, maybe I'm not even pregnant. Or like, maybe they're like, I don't know. I'm so good at what you mean. Yeah. Yeah. Like, I was like, there's not actually like a human in here. Like, can we be like, be reasonable? Like, that's an insane, like, there's not a human inside of me. Like, and then she came out and I just like, yeah, I mean, I guess it feels like horrible to say this, but my first thought when she was born was that like, I was like, superwoman. Like, I just like felt amazing.

• Speaker #0

  It's true. Like we grow teeth. Like that's insane. When you, I try not to think about it. Cause it freaks me out when I think about the fact that like, I mean, I'm so, I do feel a connection with my little guy. Like I talk to him all the time and I'm like, we're going to have so much fun together. And like, then it'll start kicking and it's really cool. But, but like, if I think about the fact that he's like actively like growing and moving around in me, sometimes it creeps me out too much.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I remember like my daughter's like first two weeks, like I would look at her and be like, you were just inside of me in basically the same form. Like you were like, not that much different. And by the time she was like, you know, eight or nine pounds, whatever. I was like, okay, now she's like kind of a different person. But like in the beginning, I was like, you literally could like I could have just delivered a week late and it would be like you as you are now, but like still inside of me.

• Speaker #0

  It's wild. I mean, you know, I've also been thinking a lot because I am very spiritual. I grew up. Catholic. But like now I have a lot of different like I kind of believe in a spiritual buffet. And so I just find it so interesting that people assume God to be male when the fact like, I don't know, I went to acupuncture the other day and I had this visualization. I'm like, wow, we're all just kind of like God is our like our source, like, you know, kind of like our mother. And like there's like this like spiritual umbilical cord. cord going to God. And I'm like, what if like we were given everything we needed through God through this? And it was just interesting to me because I'm like, I don't really believe God has a gender, but if God did, it would make so much more sense that God's a woman.

• Speaker #1

  Yes, very much so. Yeah.

• Speaker #0

  Giving birth to all human life. Yeah,

• Speaker #1

  exactly.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. But I do think like something about that makes you more connected with yourself as a human, makes you see your own magic, like that you can actually you I think there is something to like birthing a baby out into the world and then really seeing the power of your own creativity, of your own humanity, of your own strength. Like there's something about that. And I know a lot of women who start businesses for you, like you started a book four months or four weeks postpartum. There's something about being in that creative energy and then like creating in the world and taking up space in the world in a different way. And I just think it's really cool to hear that reflected in your story.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, thank you. I yeah, I think it is. It did feel like yeah, I mean, like having a child is the greatest like content creation you can do. Like it is really like you have created a whole new person. And it did it help like it improved my relationship with my body, I think, because I was like, okay, my this is like beyond aesthetics or whatever. This is about like functionality more and breastfeeding is the same thing where it's like, oh, like now my body is not like I used to think of my body is like this thing that's like I have to have it on me at all times and the world judges me by it. And, you know, like, it's just like, like it was very, like, it was all about kind of how it was perceived. And now I think about like, Oh my, my breasts are literally like right now they're for my daughter to drink out of. And like the, I mean, everyone has a different experience with breastfeeding, but I don't even like want, like, I just don't want my breasts to be like touched by anyone, but her. So like, yeah, like, I mean, I, it's just like, I, I don't want anyone to look at them. I just think of them as like purely these like functional milk jugs now. And it's like kind of nice. Like, it's like, oh, this is what they're not that that's the only thing they're for, but like it's beyond, I used to worry so much about my breasts, like not being big enough or not being high enough or whatever. And now it's like, oh no, they just have to like have milk in them. Like that's kind of their, their function right now. Um, yeah, I don't know.

• Speaker #0

  I can see that being healing though. Like seeing the, function of your body and seeing like it's seeing the function of your body and the um the ability of it kind of would give you a sense of healing because it's like if you're looking at it before i mean like oh you're not enough you're not enough you're not enough but then you're seeing like actually they're exactly enough to nourish my child That seems like it would heal some sort of loop.

• Speaker #1

  Yes. Yeah, I think that that I think it has in a sense. Yeah.

• Speaker #0

  How do you think being a mom has changed your creativity and then also your comic lens?

• Speaker #1

  That's a great question. I think it has made me I think it's made me more creative because being creative feels like like. more of kind of like a fun break now, basically. Like, I mean, I love spending time with my daughter, but it is like energy intensive. And so like the work that I do is, is less energy intensive for sure. Um, and especially when I'm doing like on the kind of rare occasions, when I have time to work on something that's just like not kind of on deadline and I have like a little more time to think about it. Like if I get to my computer and it's really just like, I'm not in a crunch to do anything. I don't have anything I need to respond to immediately. That does feel like such a luxury. And I think I can focus better during that time because I look forward to it and I don't check social media as much. So in that sense, I think it's made me more creative. In terms of my comic lens, I mean, I make jokes about parenthood now for sure. And that's just always been kind of my go-to is I make jokes about what's going on in my life. I used to make a ton of jokes about dating and then I make jokes about marriage. And now I make jokes about motherhood. I think that it's like, I do think that there is like an absurdity to like, you're like a fully thinking adult human who then has to like appeal to like the comic sensibilities of like a one year old. And like, I think it's just like that kind of absurdity is like a place for a lot of humor, like as a person who, you know, like. used to make jokes for adults and definitely still does like kind of me trying to think about like ways to make my one-year-old laugh or just like calm her down or get her to like eat a vegetable or something like I think that that sort of like disconnect can be funny um I really honestly don't think it's changed my comic lens that much like I still find the same things funny like I definitely like parenting jokes I'll get them more now but it's the people who make them I used to enjoy their other work just as much you know like I just maybe didn't get the parenting joke so it's like I'd say it's changed like the content more than like the sensibility.

• Speaker #0

  Totally. Do you feel like people have been more drawn to your work since you started making parenting jokes or like have you gotten any pushback on it? How has that transition gone?

• Speaker #1

  I don't know if I've gotten pushback, but I don't read my comments like kind of as a rule. So maybe I have.

• Speaker #0

  Oh, you're very disciplined.

• Speaker #1

  I just I used to and I would go crazy. So, yeah, I've stopped doing that. I do have like some uh i think people i think like if you're honest about um the difficulties of parenting and kind of uncertainty around it i think that that is new to people and i get like positive sometimes positive reception about that about like um like mistakes i made or whatever like i made like a silly little quip about my daughter like eating paper and someone like dm'd it to me and was like i'm so glad you said this because like my daughter ate paper and i thought i was like the only one And I was like, no, I think, I mean, first thing I think like. I think every kid eats paper and I don't think it's that big of a deal. I feel like I was still eating paper like in my own memory. So I was like, yeah, yeah. Like, I don't know. Just like being like, yeah, like if you just make it like I like we let her eat food off the ground, but we're going to stop because she now goes to people and begs for food like a dog. So we have to stop doing that. But like I did like make a joke about it like that. And I think it's just like, I think people are relieved if you admit to like. not knowing what the fuck you're doing as a parent because like no one knows what they're doing like it's you know one of my big revelations about like parenthood is like i i used to see people who were like in the park with their like four-year-old and their two-year-old and think like oh those are parents who are like in the thick of parenting and they like know how to be parents and they're really like enmeshed in parenting and now i'm like no those people are like really new to being parents like they've only been parents for like four years like they probably have no idea like what the fuck they're doing and like I think that that's kind of how I feel is like, if you're honest about how hard parenting is and how everyone is like making mistakes all the time, I think the reception can be positive. But one concern I have, honestly, is like, I don't want to like, like my daughter's life is her own. And I don't want to like, just use things about her in my comedy. Like, I'm okay using things that are like, how I feel about being a mother. But I don't. really want to do jokes about like what she's doing if that makes sense and sometimes i do like it's kind of a thin line but i think going forward i am gonna try to not do two jokes that are really about her like i don't want to like create her as like a character in my comedy like she is kind of her own person um and so like I can like talk about the experience of mother, like, I think a challenge is like trying to talk about the experience of motherhood without really the specifics of my daughter, because I do like, you know, she's one, but I still feel like I want to kind of protect her privacy as much as possible.

• Speaker #0

  That's really a great point. I mean, it's something I think about a lot too, is how, how do I have a level of honesty about my life and my experience through my creative work without infringing on anyone's privacy, but especially like my child, you know, I think that that's a really hard thing because obviously they can't give consent. And, um, and then like the things that we're doing on the internet last forever, even if you delete them. So I, I think that's really brilliant. I'm excited to see how you manage it so I can try to mirror it.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah. Yeah. You know, I mean, you'll see it online too, but I mean like, cause like I make, like I tell jokes about my husband all the time and I put him like my Instagram stories or whatever. And that is like a lot different. But he's like the only person who I feel like in my life has become kind of like a recurring. Yeah. I mean, I feel bad. Like, yeah. To say that I've like turned him into a character. But it does. That like is kind of the only example. And even when I'm talking about like other people, it's usually pretty vague and often kind of fictionalized jokes about like, oh, some like random dude or whatever. So, yeah, I don't.

• Speaker #0

  yeah i think it is i mean i think it is sort of the the general challenge of of like being a writer and kind of putting your work on the internet um and definitely not something that i have figured out oh yeah i mean the thing i always say to people though is everyone has the right to tell their story but like it's important to try to protect people as you do but yeah also balancing that you know yeah totally yeah i feel like that's really good I guess, like, do you have any other thoughts on, like, creativity, career, parenthood, how you're navigating it? Advice for me. This is an open invitation.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah. Well, I would say, like, definitely, like, I did have a productive, like, very early time in postpartum. My first couple months, I felt like, as I mentioned, I didn't, I just was kind of, like, bored because she was sleeping. And then I had months later where I was. not feeling creative at all. So I would say like, don't worry if you have ups and downs. And also my pregnancy was not a productive time for me. Like I, I, I had like one part-time job and then I had one kind of longer term project that, um, I didn't even, I meant to get done and I didn't. So I slept a ton in pregnancy. Um, and I think it was kind of like rearing to go honestly when she was born, but I think it is like there are ups and downs. Like you might go through periods of not feeling creative or periods of feeling more creative. So I would definitely just like give yourself some grace on that. And then I think like just I don't want to tell you to like try to rest during pregnancy because it's like so annoying when people say that because like it's like really hard to sleep, especially in your third trimester. I think like for yeah, for creativity, just like be I would say like follow your follow your interests, because as you mentioned, like you don't know who you're going to be. So like you might. have ideas for like totally new projects and that kind of thing. Um, or just like, yeah, like you might want to go in a, in a completely different direction and maybe it's like the right direction. Like, I think it could be that, like, I feel like there's a lot that like, I can't like, I can't point to a part of my personality that feels totally different, but I do know that I am different and that like my interests are different since having a daughter. And I think like, I'm still trying to kind of. to follow that and like be true to those interests without kind of trying to like hold on too closely to who I was before I was a mom.

• Speaker #0

  I love that. Okay, final question, because on the show, I actually talk a lot about how creativity is connected to the inner child. And I'm curious if through this first year of parenting, you have had any moments of like healing of your own childhood or your own, you know, inner child self through. parenting your daughter?

• Speaker #1

  Yes, some, but also like some revelations of like, oh, this is an unhealed part of me. I think like, I think that there's, I can point back to like all these things in my childhood that to me feel like they went wrong or that I was unhappy about and didn't, you know, wasn't like supportive enough as a child.

• Speaker #0

  And then I still like emerged and kind of became a person in the world with like a lot of imperfections and things are messy. But I am a generally functional person who is like happy to be alive. And like I think that I kind of keep that in mind when I'm parenting my daughter because I like make a lot of mistakes. So I'm like, OK, you know, my parents made mistakes, too, and I emerged. So just I got to just keep going with this or like it's not going to you know, it's not going to be perfect. I mean, this first year, she's not even going to remember. Hopefully she doesn't listen to this podcast.

• Speaker #1

  Fingers crossed.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. So but like just knowing that like, OK, like I was a person who like, you know, like and I will have guilt about like things that I feel like my parents were able to give me that I'm not going to be able to give her. And some of it is like financial and some of it is just like the world that we live in. Like, I can't, I don't know. Like I grew up in the nineties,

• Speaker #1

  which you can't give her the nineties. Yeah.

• Speaker #0

  I know the nineties were like a good, yeah. Good time to grow up in. And like, just trying to remember that, like, um, it's, you don't have to do everything right as a parent to be a good parent.

• Speaker #1

  That's very healing. And I think it's, it's beautiful. There is a level of healing that you get to have when you can build compassion for your parents and realize like, oh my God, they, I mean, not everybody, but for mine, they really were. trying their best and my parents were amazing and these like little ways in which they miss me like you can have compassion for them so i think that brings you a level of healing too knowing that like your parents did want the best for you and they did try their best um yeah and that it was not ever a reflection on you yeah yeah yeah yeah absolutely yeah well yeah this was beautiful thank you for this open-hearted conversation

• Speaker #0

  It was great to talk to you, Lauren. I'm so happy for you. I'm excited to hear how it goes.

• Speaker #1

  Me too. Me too. I definitely have the same thing that you thought. Like with the birth, I'm like, oh, my God, is it really going to happen? Like there's no way out.

• Speaker #0

  It's just going to do it. I know that like a couple of weeks before I was due, I was like, there's actually no way out now. Like my only options are like to deliver this baby or like some kind of crazy surgery. Like it was just like really freaky. Yeah.

• Speaker #1

  So anyway, I hope that my birth experience is similar to yours where it's very smooth. But I had,

• Speaker #0

  yeah, I got lucky, but I hope so as well. Yeah.

• Speaker #1

  I hope I get lucky. But this has been a really nice conversation and I can't wait to read more of your stuff around motherhood. Thank you so much.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. It was great to talk to you.

• Speaker #1

  There you have it. My conversation with the amazing Jenny Hogan. One thing I really loved about this conversation was how honest it was. Not just about motherhood, but about identity, creativity, ambition, body image, partnership, work, and what it means to evolve as a human being while still trying to stay connected to yourself. Honestly, I think this conversation is such a great reminder that transformation doesn't have to mean losing yourself. Sometimes, it's actually how you become more yourself and grow into a bigger, deeper version of who you've always been or who you've always been wanting to be. So if this conversation resonated, go check out Jenny. You can follow her at Jenny Hogan underscore on Instagram and threads and make sure to check out her writing and stand up as well. It is so funny. I actually LOL all the time. If this episode resonated, please send it to a fellow creative. Share it on socials. Give us a rating and review on Apple podcasts and a rating on Spotify. It means the world and helps the show grow. You can find us at Unleash Your Inner Creative and at Lauren LaGrasso on socials. And finally... Unleash Your Inner Creative is executive produced and hosted by me, Lauren LaGrasso. It's edited by Blondel Garcon with theme music by Liz Full. I love you and I believe in you. And I'll talk with you next week.