Transcription

• Speaker #0

  What if what you thought was going to be your biggest career moment didn't bring you any clarity or joy, but rather a feeling of confusion and abandoning yourself? If you've ever achieved what you thought you wanted, applause, a big moment, a breakthrough, only to feel more lost than ever after getting it, this episode is for you. Or if you're considering choosing your own voice over what everybody says your voice should sound like, this is your sign to trust yourself. Today's conversation is about coming home to yourself. It's about letting go of the shiny path to reclaim the soul aligned one. It's about healing through creativity, through truth, and through calling back the parts of yourself you once abandoned to survive. Welcome to Unleash Your Inner Creative with Lauren LaGrasso. I'm Lauren LaGrasso, a Webby Award winning podcast host and producer, singer, songwriter, speaker, and creative coach. This show sits at the intersection of creativity, mental health, self-development, and spirituality. Each episode brings you tools to redefine your relationship with fear and love, trust, and know yourself enough to go after whatever is on your heart. Today's guest is the incredible Milk, a singer, songwriter, producer, and activist whose song Quiet became the viral anthem of the 2017 Women's March. She'll share the journey of how she got fame and chose to give it back so she could reclaim her own voice, her music, and herself. We also deep dive into her amazing new album mother tongue, which you have to check out. From this chat, you'll learn how to know when it's time to walk away, how to start listening to your body for inner guidance, the grief of assimilation and the journey to rediscover your culture of origin, how inner child and parts work can transform your creativity and your art, and the path to rebuilding self-trust after trauma, people-pleasing, and or self-abandonment. This episode is for anyone who's ever lost themselves while trying to be enough, which I think includes each last one of us. So here she is, Milk. Milk, I am so excited because if manifestation exists, I think that I manifested this conversation because we just had Shannon Watts on the podcast, amazing author and advocate and activist out in the world. And you were one of the fire starters. She... chronicled in her book. And when I was reading your story, I was like, this woman is incredible. I have to have her on the podcast. And then I went on LinkedIn and realized our mutual, I don't know how you know, Laura, but she came on my podcast a while back and she had pitched you back in March and somehow I just missed it. And yeah, so it was just, it was kind of divine timing. I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm so sorry. I miss this. I've actually been wanting to talk to her. So all that's to say. Welcome to Unleash Your Inner Creative. I'm so, so happy you're here.

• Speaker #1

  Thank you, Lauren. It's a treat to be here. I really enjoyed listening to the conversation you and Shannon had. I was going on a walk in my new neighborhood and just really appreciating your style of conversation. So I was like very excited about this.

• Speaker #0

  Oh my gosh, I'm so excited. Yeah, I mean the way she framed your story of finding fame and giving it back in order to get back to your true self and your art, like I just, I can't wait to get into all of it. Um, but I kind of want to start at the beginning because I believe creativity is deeply tied to the inner child and I'm sure it came up in you as a very young human being. And I'm wondering if you have a memory of the first time you wrote a song and you realized you wrote a song.

• Speaker #1

  Hmm. That's such a fun question. Um, so the first time I consciously wrote a song with an idea. behind it. Like there's a theme and there was a motivation for me to express a feeling was when I was seven. So there were the, there were these commercials about children in different countries that were starving. And I think a lot of them were in African countries. And I remember sitting there on my couch and being, and being mind blown because I didn't realize other children were hungry. So I was really young. I was like, wait, some people don't have food. And so I would think about that a lot. it just so happened during that time, there's a thing called reflections in a lot of public schools. I don't know if like you had this in your school, but it was a comp, like it's a contest where you can submit your art piece, your music piece or writing. And there's, um, awards that you can get. And so my music teacher was like, you, she taught me piano and she encouraged me. Why don't you write some of the melodies you hum and we'll, I'll teach you how to write it down and then you can you can submit it for reflections and i remember playing a little melody on the piano and then mrs mendenhaw virginia mendenhaw rest in peace she helped me write out the melody And then I remember sitting and looking at my, like, now that I look back, it's like all these chubby little music notes, just like really clunkily written. And I thought, OK, what is the most beautiful thing I could name this song?

• Speaker #0

  I was like,

• Speaker #1

  I was like, Healthy People. So that's that's my first song, Healthy People.

• Speaker #0

  Wow. It's so amazing that even at such a young age, you were writing from a point of view of. advocacy and like seeing that the world could be more beautiful and trying to fill in the gaps.

• Speaker #1

  It is pretty incredible what kids can do, right? I feel like that's in so many children. They'll say very profound things about honesty or love or forgiveness. And I think we're born into this world with that a bit.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, we are. And then the world sometimes knocks it out of us. And then it's like retracing our steps to get back to where we started.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah. I agree. I completely agree. I remember thinking as a kid, seeing some of the stresses that adults around me were holding. And I remember making a promise to myself, like, okay, always keep hold of this kiddish mentality, this child thing you have, keep hold of it because that doesn't make sense. Whatever the big people are doing doesn't make sense. And, you know, I think I have kept that promise to myself in a lot of ways. And it's, and in some ways, Sometimes I'm like, okay. That childlike mentality might be good to let go of. There's certain things where I'm like, maybe it's good to step into your matriarch self and not constantly be like an awful doe-eyed maiden.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, I think that both can exist. Like I've used to always be like, go back to the inner child, go back to it. And I still believe in that. But also like sometimes the wise adult needs to step forward. But sometimes the inner child needs to step forward because the wise adult, like you said, is like wrapped up in fear or anxiety. And like it's not even the truth of the situation. So, yeah, I think I think it's about balancing it. I was curious as I was reading some of your interviews and even listening to your songs. Have you done like IFS at all in internal family systems?

• Speaker #1

  It's funny you bring that up because I hear it everywhere and I know the basics of it, but I haven't done it. Does doing it mean like working with the IFS therapist to help me? Okay. I think I might need to do some of that.

• Speaker #0

  You already talk in the language of it, which is why I thought maybe you had done it because I started doing it about a year ago and it's so helpful to actually like call out these different parts of us, whether it's like a younger self or like a part. So like the belief is, and it sounds kind of wild, but basically that we all have these different parts inside of us that like split off from our higher self, like the capital S self. When things got scary or hard or traumatic. And so in order to become like a fully integrated person, we name these parts. So they're not taking up like an outsized role in our lives, understand what their purpose is and assign them a different role. So that like the higher self capital S self is sitting at the head of the table, not a part.

• Speaker #1

  Right. Oh, I love that. Yeah. Healing healing means to integrate, to become whole again. So that makes total sense. I just. In my latest album, I wrote this one song, and I didn't think it was going to be on that. I forgot about it. And then at the very last minute before we are submitting the album to get printed, I was like, oh, wait, there's this other song that I wrote. It was the first song of the whole series, and it's called Morning Bird. And it's about, it's basically like, hey there, little morning bird, the sun's out. It's safe now for your return. And I've always thought of parts of myself as these little birds that fly. fly up high to escape whatever trauma it is. And they're just kind of on their own kind of watching life from a bird's eye view, and then calling those parts of myself back in. I've been thinking about that a lot lately.

• Speaker #0

  So beautiful. So I want to get into your full story. So we can also get to your album because I'm obsessed with it. You had this like, big boom moment in 2017. But I know there was an entire journey that led up to that, that probably hasn't been written about or shared about as much. And in reading about your story, I was really curious what pursuing music and being on your artist journey looked like prior to that moment where you had that viral success.

• Speaker #1

  My journey into the music path, the path of being a commercial musician, was in a lot of ways kind of awkward and clumsy. And maybe that's how it is for everybody. I thought that songwriting and singing was kind of this private thing that I got to do. Even though I wanted to spend all my time doing it, I was supposed to be a proper, you know, professional path. led student, a doctor, a lawyer, and that was what was ingrained in me in my childhood. Because I had said as a child, I want to be a singer. And they're like, oh, but people don't really sing for a living. Like, what about X, Y, Z? So I kind of started picking other options. I realized through my body being my best teacher was that whenever I opened the LSAT book, when I was studying at UC Berkeley, I would fall asleep immediately. I just couldn't. stay awake. And I felt really embarrassed and frustrated with myself. But then I realized that I could stay in the studio for eight hours and just not get enough. And I wanted to be there. And I said to myself, there has to be something about this. I have to follow this, even though it's going to really create ripples within my traditional family. And so my path started almost like it started as This is a dramatic way of saying it, but like betraying my father's dream was me pursuing my own. And it was really hard for the first year. My parents really were against it. And then I kind of started adopting a sense of humor because when you're so sad, all you can do is just start making jokes about it. So I started laughing with my friends. I was like, I should just like sing a bunch of like his favorite artist songs. And he loved Elton John and the Beatles. And so I. held this concert and I just sang all his favorite songs. And then, and I think he, he kind of let that, he kind of softened, even though he was still very concerned.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah.

• Speaker #1

  So that's where it started. But then at UC Berkeley, when I was in college, a lot of my friends were going a more traditional path. And I knew from my body teaching me, I was like, I have to pursue music. So I had zero connections, zero anything. And I moved down to Los Angeles. to get my butt kicked. I had gotten into Berklee School of Music or Berklee College of Music in Boston, but I didn't get enough scholarship to like really justify it in my head. I was like, I already have a BA. I don't know if I want another one and then go become a musician. That just feels like really risky. So let me just not take on another debt. Let me go to LA and just get schooled. And I just met random people, started in really small coffee shops, really random places. And then ended up on my journey through Sunset Boulevard where I, you know, everyone's like, oh, House of Blues. Yeah. Playing all those rooms, not realizing that a lot of those places during that time were just selling a memory. You know, it wasn't that wasn't an active place where people were hiving to listen to music. They were relying on musicians to bring the people. Oh,

• Speaker #0

  completely. I don't know if you know Milk, but I'm also a musician. And I'll never forget the first time I played House of Blue Sunset. I was like, I've made it. I was like, what was the little, the voodoo lounge? That's where I was in the voodoo lounge. And I opened for this girl who like wrote a song for the B in apartment 23. She was great. I don't know what happened to her. Kate Compton was her name. She was awesome. But I just remember being like, yes. And then after the day after I was like, now what? Like that did not change my life at all. Which has been like a great lesson for so many things, which I'm sure you've also had experience with. Like you get to the thing that you think is going to change your life and then it doesn't either like internally it doesn't or it literally doesn't. And you're like, oh, I guess it's an inside job. Cool.

• Speaker #1

  So well said. Oh my gosh. I'm so glad we share this like voodoo lounge pipe dream. Yeah.

• Speaker #0

  Oh my gosh. I thought everything would be different after that. everything.

• Speaker #1

  And it's basically the reality was like, Hey, mom, dad, and all my friends and family, can you pay $25 to park and then pay $20 to get in and then pay $40 for drinks to make me feel good about myself?

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. To put it on my resume. That'd be great. Thanks.

• Speaker #1

  Thank you, everybody.

• Speaker #0

  And you know what, though? I am so grateful for all the people that showed up during that time period because they were all co-creators and in my dreams. And like that almost means more than like some major life changing person coming.

• Speaker #1

  That's so true. And I've, I've actually reunited with a lot of my friends from that time during this period. It's funny you say that. And it's been such a sweet time to remember those special moments when we had so much youth and energy and dreams. And we just we were just there for each other.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah.

• Speaker #1

  Knowing what the heck we were doing, but it's very sweet. I mean. If I were to rewind and like look back at probably the facial expression I was holding when I was lugging my Yamaha motif because I was like That's a giant keyboard. I was very serious about my career. I was like, I'm gonna give them my best. For people who don't know that keyboard is really, really large, because it has sound files in it. And that's very unnecessary for a live show.

• Speaker #0

  I know, but don't you just love that younger self? Like she was there. She was in it. She was bringing the fire.

• Speaker #1

  Yes. And I play, I subsisted through that time a lot was by making money through playing in hotel lobbies. Marriott Hotel, shout out. Nope, nope. There's no like an endorsement here, but their hotels loved hiring me. I would play for two hours, two hour sets for $250. And I like drive there and I'd like set up my keyboard and everything. And I would bring my loop pedal. I would bring. I would bring everything. I just brought my whole studio. Cause I was like, this is my time to practice.

• Speaker #0

  I am doing my craft.

• Speaker #1

  Just taking it. So like just taking it all so earnestly to heart. I'm basically like what the new kids call what the young kids call cringe. That's just like the land that I live in.

• Speaker #0

  So my gosh, I love cringe. If cringe means caring, sign me up. I feel so bad for them that they think caring is uncool. I do think I genuinely think it's tragic.

• Speaker #1

  I'm so uncool then.

• Speaker #0

  I know I care the most when people are like, I've got no fucks to give. I'm like, here's some of mine. Take them.

• Speaker #1

  I have some extra.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah.

• Speaker #1

  I packed some extra for you. Do you want them? I wrote your name on the card.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah.

• Speaker #1

  So, so yeah. So that was the young, like the early phase, not knowing what the heck I was doing. You are smart. Cause you, you played like a one show. And then you were like, hey, this isn't really getting me somewhere.

• Speaker #0

  Oh, no, I didn't. I played a lot more than that. I was just really excited about that one. I played House of Blues like four more times.

• Speaker #1

  Okay, me too.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah.

• Speaker #1

  And eventually I was like, I'm really tired lugging around this large keyboard. And my career is going nowhere. And I think my friends are dreading all of my Facebook invites.

• Speaker #2

  Yes. You just took me back to Facebook events.

• Speaker #1

  Facebook events, right? For those of you who don't know, there was a time where we just sent each other lots of Facebook events, but it wasn't too much then. We actually like RSVP'd and went and like, you know.

• Speaker #2

  Yeah,

• Speaker #1

  we did it seriously. So that felt like a rat race and I was like, I think I'm not getting it. There's something I'm not getting. I need to go ask people questions. So then there was this drummer that had played for me. His name's Josh Doyle, shout out Josh Doyle. And he was starting to write with other writers and like putting songs on TV and film. So I was like, can I take you out for coffee? And so he started giving me some tips and he gave me the smartest tip. He's like, write with people who already have publishing deals, like go and write with them, give your best and see if you can land some stuff on film and TV. So I did that for a long time. And didn't know what the heck I was doing, really stumbled through, worked my butt off. I think the early mid-20s, like, bless our bodies with all that energy because I just was go, go, go, discovery, discovery, discovery, failing, getting back up again. Finally, I would say, like, four years into this process, I was starting to get some stuff on film and TV, little, little things. And then I met Adrienne Gonzalez. She goes by A.G. And she is a really, really talented and powerful producer writer in Los Angeles. And she actually saw me on tour in Wisconsin. And she came up to me and she was like, I need to work with you. And she's like, your voice. I want to work with your voice. So I had already heard about her. So I was really excited. I showed up at her house. And it was one of the most empowering sessions I had ever done. I felt so in the zone. And the first song we wrote together ended up sinking on TV and film shows because she was signed to a good company. So that song ended up sinking six figures that year for me. And I was like, between us two. And then I was like, I guess I can maybe do less hotel gigs and maybe teach less voice lessons. And I started writing with her more and more. The second song we wrote together was Quiet, which is the song that went viral at the Women's March. So, but that I didn't release that for a year and a half. So basically writing with Adrian Gonzalez, it's just like, sometimes we meet someone who brings out the best parts of us and we just create something that's better than what each of us could do as individuals. It was a, it still is a magical partnership because we were working on a musical together and tomorrow we're starting a new project together. So I'm grateful for, for that, like that we're still working together, but yeah, then that's, that's where the, the train started rolling and I was doing things full time.

• Speaker #0

  So because you said so many amazing things, but one of them that blew me away is you, I think you said my body is my greatest teacher. I'm curious, partnering that together with meeting AG. What did it feel like in your body when you're like, oh, this is a mastermind alliance between the two of us? Like, what was that cue? Because I think it's important for people to know a lot of times these partnerships can make or in worst case scenario break us. And so having something that feels good, like, what does that feel like when you know you're working with somebody who gets you and is for you?

• Speaker #1

  Such a good question. So I remember viscerally sitting in the vocal booth because Adrienne had her producer desk and then she had the vocal booth right next to her. And but it was separated enough where I could I wasn't looking at her the whole time. I could get get lost in my own space. And the way that she treated like she's an amazing, amazing audio engineer, the way she treated the vocal mic made it very easy. Like there's something between. a relationship between a singer and a microphone some microphones you know this it's like some microphones are harder to sing into you have to work harder to get a sound you want some microphones like it just feels so easy and so the mic she had which is the mic i'm using right now i bought my own because i loved it so much is just felt really fluid and the way that she looked at me and was just like i believe in you she just looked me straight in the eyes and said i believe in you i have no doubt you're gonna make it in this industry no one had ever said that to me before. ever. And I was like, what you do, you think that, and just having that in the room, I think the feeling that I felt, which I did not identify immediately. I want to say to encourage people is like, it is the slower realization, but the feeling in the room was I'm completely able to just experiment with the gravelly part of my voice and also the soft. part. And then I just, I could go all these places and she's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. I felt like I was getting egged on in a way where I felt like this expansiveness, like in my arms, in my chest, like I felt lighter and like the air around me just felt thinner and I could like, in a good way, like I could, I just felt like I could move more easily.

• Speaker #0

  So to call that out, I think that because that feels very universal to me, like when there's a yes in my body, what it feels like is open, expansive, light, shimmery and safe, like safety. Not like, oh, I'm saying small safe. It's like I am so safe that I could do anything right now.

• Speaker #1

  Yes, that's such a good way of explaining it. I like what you said about shimmery, too. There is this feeling of this. For me, I interpret the shimmery as this excitement almost, like I can feel like I can be a kid again and I can like experiment and have that awe. I remember that day too, that first day we wrote the song called Devil Devil, which is still my most streamed song to this day because it's been on a lot of shows and movies and stuff. I remember I felt so clear-headed about our partnership as writers. I just felt really good in that moment and felt in my power and I felt seen. Like she could see that I could do this. I just improvised the entire bridge. She was like, I don't know what we're going to write for this section, but I'm going to press play and just go. And I was like, and then I just came out and that take that whole thing is the final version on the, on the recording.

• Speaker #0

  That is so cool. I can't wait to listen to that. Okay. Can we go though to this moment when you had the, the viral moment at the women's March in 2017? and I just want to go through it because I think it's an important thing because there's a lot of people right now, whether they're going from working at a corporation to then going into entrepreneurship, or they're going from, you know, having someone in their lives that had a very binding view of what they could be and they're going outside of it. There's a lot of people who need to hear this story of going outside of what society looks at as success. in finding your own version of success and learning to trust your own voice over people that know better, quote unquote. And I think this story is a really important example of that. And so I'd love to share it. So let's go to this moment in 2017. What happens at the Women's March and thereafter? And we'll start there.

• Speaker #1

  Great. And I wanted to highlight what you said about like, Needing to believe in yourself more than like people who quote unquote know better. It's just like, let's just put a pin in that because that is like the theme of this. So I had gotten dropped by an indie management company and I was kind of at a low point. But and then also then Trump got elected and that was really startling for many of us. I know some people were didn't feel startled. It's a whole gamut of reactions in that moment. I was personally so scared. It's like, how can a man who has spoken about women like that become the leader of our country? And so I had this specific feeling when I was watching the television show, the map turned red in the United States. It was almost as if in something inside me turned red. And it reminded me of the feeling that I had when I wrote Quiet with Adrian Gonzalez. And I thought to myself, there's something about the song. So I ended up deciding, you know what, I'm going to do an art experience on the streets in DC for the Women's March. This is going to be my contribution and just to like be part of this huge movement. And 25 strangers and I sang together on the streets. I taught them on Skype because that was the thing then as we speak on Zoom. I met a bunch of singers in DC on Skype and I met up with them on site and we sang a bunch of flash mobs of this song called Quiet. And then Alma Harrell, this movie director, happened to walk by during our last performance. She filmed it. She posted on her Twitter account. And then I think, I can't remember what it was, if it was 14 million views or 8 million views. My brain has done something weird and I can't remember. So we can go verify. But over two days, millions and millions of views. And my life completely shifted because I went from unknown people kind of not seeing my viability to then all the newspapers, all the media, all the labels, everything. And so for a young woman who has been told no her whole life, and then also told like Asian artists aren't cool, that was still happening up until 2017, even up until 2019, I would say. 2020, I think, is the real shift of racial awareness in the music industry, the beginnings of it. But 2017, I think it was a gender awareness. Like that's the start of that. Not the full start, but you know, I'm speaking in like clumsy terms because there's been movements before and after of this. But so basically I, I didn't think I had a chance at commercial music at that moment, but I always had this little part of me is like, what if, what if I kept trying? So when I, when I walked into the offices of Atlantic records, I remember seeing a huge photo of Ed Sheeran and and Bruno Mars and I was like this is too big for me. I did have this instinctual gut impulse like this is too big for me and then I had another voice like but is it too big for you? Why do you think it's too big? What is that? And then I walked into the room and I fell in love with the people who ran the label and I ended up signing with them and there's a big part of me that's really excited about one of the being one of the few Chinese women, Chinese American women to sign with the major label. So that was like a kind of a box I wanted to check. And so even clocking that, that's like a little bit of ego, right? Like a little bit like, oh, I want to be the first of this. Not criticizing myself, but just noticing there's something ego driven about this versus having a level head of being like a career artist and not seeing these shiny things as something that's going to change your life or validate your life. But I was still, I think I was still thirsty for some validation, some, because, you know, I didn't really get that in my own upbringing. with this path and I wasn't getting it a lot of times in the industry itself. And so there's this first moment. And I think my culture and also my personality, I've always been taught. And I think it's a beautiful thing is to trust your elders and to listen to your elders and respect them. And so I think in that, I took that and ran with that in the industry. I was like, they have done this for a long time. They know. They know best. Let me follow their advice. And I think down that path, I abandoned a lot of my own things. And sometimes I really stood clear and I'm proud of those moments. And there's some moments where I didn't. I allowed for the myth that they know better to override maybe what would be the most healthy outcome for my artist career. So I do really, you know, I say all that because I think it happens a lot. and i also like tip my hat to any artist who can keep her or his or their conviction

• Speaker #0

  Through an industry that can have a lot of voices coming at you. So I just have a lot of respect for any artist that has longevity and can do it for a long period of time.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah. And so you did eventually end up parting ways with them. How did you get to the point where you felt safe to do that? Or like you knew that that was the right decision for you?

• Speaker #0

  I think that there were many moments where. I noticed that I was in a place of fear. I was in a place of, oh, shoot, like, what if I'm not good enough for this? Oh, shoot, what if this all falls away? And I really didn't like that, because on the flip side of that, because those are quiet fears kind of rumbling underneath. On the surface, I was singing at these big events, like encouraging myself and others to like, own their voice and to like, own their stories, you know, so this really weird juxtaposition that I was living. I got dropped by my management during COVID. I think COVID really exposed a lot for a lot of companies and a lot of people contracted out of fear. And a lot of people were just like straight up looking at their numbers and saying like, I can't keep you. So at that point, my management had to part ways with me. My lawyer, my business managers, it all kind of just like kind of fizzled. And I was like. I but my Atlantic was still with me and I was like but this is scary because I don't really have representation as I'm navigating a huge machine so my body did a very clear thing it's a very clear feeling and I was like you have to leave you have to leave and it wasn't one of those feelings that I was like oh should I leave it wasn't this frenetic thing it was like a calm knowing like and flooded from my foot up to my neck like you're leaving Hmm. I left and I think it overall was the best choice because what it did was it forced me to really look at my artistry and make me understand, like make me ask myself, like, who are you writing the song for right now? Who are you making? What are these creative decisions you're making? Are you trying to please the people at the label? Are you trying to please yourself? And what so I needed some time to clarify for myself what I was doing. The thing that I really did miss was the health insurance, to be real. It was real good.

• Speaker #1

  We could do a whole episode about that. I mean, the fact that our health insurance is tied to our jobs in this country is just insane. But, okay, you said the body feeling went from your feet up until your head, I think.

• Speaker #0

  To my neck.

• Speaker #1

  Your neck. What was it? Like, just because I like to give people these cues so that they can know, because sometimes our brain won't know what our body knows or our heart.

• Speaker #0

  won't know like we will keep ourselves cut off but our body never lies to us right and i think like some people have told me they're like wow you're really in touch with your body and that and they'll say to me i'm not very much in touch with that and i'm like you know what that's totally normal because our society has taught us to really revere the mind even when like we do practices to bring us to peace we call it mindfulness but actually like mind emptiness like or something I don't know. It's something else. But so. When I say this, and if you're like, I don't know what the heck she's talking about, that's totally fine and normal. But it's, I feel this like, if someone's like driving and then something suddenly appears in the way of your driving and it's that adrenaline rush, that pop of like, ah, it's like that, a little calmer, but rushing from my feet up to my neck. It's like almost like...

• Speaker #1

  rolling feeling and it's quick it's like over it's like a breath like and then that's it yeah but it still lingers a little bit because it's a pretty intense feeling you know and that's such a great cue for people to start to pick up on and I I really relate to that and the other part of the story that stood out to me is when you walked in you saw Bruno Mars and I'm not remembering Ed Sheeran old Eddie Eddie Eddie um How do you know the difference between what I like to call good fear, which is like, oh shit, I'm about to expand in a really important way and I'm scared of it, but I'm excited, versus I don't know about this. This feels big to me, but it's bad scary. What is the subtle difference between those two?

• Speaker #0

  That's a great question. I think I'll be continuing to mind that one, what I have so far, because I've asked myself this before. The fear that I know I need to push past is more in my head. It's more like... It feels like this frenetic confusion in my head was like, oh, well, you know, Bruno Mars is really talented. He can also dance and he's so extroverted. I'm not like that. And like, oh, Ed Sheeran, like he can just write songs. He writes so many songs in a week. Like, I don't know. It's all thinking. It's like thinking it's not in my body. But when I'm like in a situation where there's someone who is really creepy and I need to get out of the situation, I can feel it in my, I can feel this gearing up in my body, in my muscles. It usually starts in my chest and my arms. That's where I feel a lot of my, and then the bottoms of my feet, oddly. The fear that I like to break through, because it's actually healthy fear that I want to walk towards, is in my head.

• Speaker #1

  I love that. Yeah,

• Speaker #0

  it's like jaws, like tightening of jaws. Oh, the jaw. You know, shortness of breath a little bit because we're thinking so much. But it's not the adrenaline heartbeat here. you know, in my body. That's just for me, you know,

• Speaker #1

  I know, but it's helpful to hear where your cues are so that people can start to pick up on their own too.

• Speaker #0

  Right.

• Speaker #1

  And then there was this article I read where you talked about this and you said Atlantic had already heard the song, which was your, your hit from, uh, the women's March before and passed on it because, but because of the virality of it, they were like, well, there's context now there's a story there's energy we can work with. And this really pissed me off because people who only see you once you can do something for them never saw you. And I just wonder how that strikes you and yeah, like how you took that moment.

• Speaker #0

  It's so interesting because I took a really pragmatic and pragmatic approach to it. It's like, you're right. You're right. Actually, there wasn't energy to work with. And you know what I thought to myself? I was like, thank. goodness for the internet and for the voice of the people because without it i would not be here if it was still the culture of gatekeepers i would just not be here but because fans day-to-day humans who love art and who just feel things they're they're not we're not really looking at like an artist's age viability in the commercial industry we're just like does this make me feel something. people spoke. And I remember feeling immediately like I owe the people. I was like, this song rose from the streets of the people and it is for the street, the people, the streets. And so I always felt this connection to that. And it taught me a lot in that moment because the guy who told me that is a wonderful man, like a great businessman. And I, I was like, that's very honest. And so let's just be honest, you know?

• Speaker #1

  Yeah.

• Speaker #0

  And think. goodness for cultural context that I could work with it. But also a lesson of like, wow, some people just pass on really good stuff.

• Speaker #1

  Well, I don't know, because as you're talking, I'm like, wow, it just really mirrors like even our politics. Like so many of the decisions being made and the people represent us don't even represent us and what we want. Like they tell us we're divided about things, but actually people are much more united. I mean, gun control is one of the issues. Like we're very united on that. that we want common sense gun control. And yet they make it seem like it's this hugely divisive issue. And it's not. And the people that are representing us don't actually represent us. And it's just like the more conversations I have, the more interested I am by the fact that everything is the same everywhere.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, that's so insightful. Like I was just listening to someone reflect on July 4th and what it means to her. And, you know, She was saying like the government is not the people who are representing us are not representing us. Yeah. People in taxes, too, are not vying for our interests like we've entered that era.

• Speaker #1

  And so as you're leaving this place, like I have a kind of like a two layered question. I see this as like another evolution in your healing journey that you've been on. And I'm curious to know how leaving inspired or continued your healing journey. And then also how you started to call back in self-trust.

• Speaker #0

  I think leaving the label was something I knew I needed to do because it was like a drug to me the whole time I was in with the label. Because during the whole time I was at the label, there's a little voice in me that's like, don't fuck this up. Don't fuck this up. and and because you need it. And then I was like, what is that? I need to address this myth, this story I'm telling myself. So let me just go all the way and force myself to deal with it, leave the label and then sit with me and be like, do I like me without a label? Do I feel smaller without a label? Do I feel less legitimate as an artist as a label? And sometimes the answer was yes, sometimes it was no. But ultimately, the thing that I was trying to really ask myself is like, do you believe in yourself? And I was like, why don't I believe in myself? And so then I kept digging and digging and ended up writing a musical that I'm working on with La Jolla Playhouse. And the musical is about a 30-year-old woman who is forced to return home because her mother gets hospitalized. When she enters the front door of her house, her 14-year-old self enters. And so they walk the musical together. And you see that, you know, the version of her that was sexually assaulted when she was 14 was just right there with her. And as assault survivors, we lose, some of us lose trust in ourselves because it's like, how did I get myself into that? It's almost like we self-blame, we self-gaslight and all this stuff. And that harm in self-trust at such a young age was something that was so... deep that I'm still uncovering. I actually had to leave a relationship that felt very safe to me recently to face myself again, because I think there's a part of me, I was just telling my friend that I can be so hard on myself internally, that I've relied on romantic partners to become that soft side to like take care of my inner child. So I was like outsourcing this work because I didn't trust myself to be kind because then I might become too indulgent, too lazy or, you know, maybe I'll attract that dangerous guy again. You know, that's really what it is. So now I'm like, okay, I'm going to give myself the self trust, the softness that I have not known how to give myself while also trusting that I'm going to show up for my career, you know, all of that. And it's like, goes back to the beginning of our conversation about healing. all the different parts of ourselves, the internal family system. I feel like I'm bringing the whole house together, the family back in the same house again.

• Speaker #1

  Milk, that is so amazing.

• Speaker #0

  Thank you for hearing me.

• Speaker #1

  I am blown away by the fact that you left a partnership that felt safe to you to become a safe partner to yourself.

• Speaker #0

  Thanks for framing it that way. That's really powerful. That means so much to me. Yeah. Yeah. And I think the desire for him to give me that safety created a dynamic where, you know, things became like became not peaceful within because I wasn't in my own thing. And he has his own like we all have our stuff. So, yeah, it's been really powerful. And then the universe had me fall down the stairs a few months ago and break my neck. I fractured my neck. I'm sitting, I'm healthy. Now the body's crazy. It's like so fragile, but so strong. Like three months ago, I wouldn't have been able to sit here for longer than five minutes without like an aching migraine or something. But the being in my late thirties, being single, having a fractured neck, moving into my own apartment by myself, I was like, how am I going to take care of myself? And lo and behold, the version of me that like emerged to take care of me has been amazing. And so it's been this like reunion with myself in a way. So I think, you know, the things, the fears and troubled thoughts that I have after this breakup and being a woman in her late 30s and navigating life single again, all those tropes of thought, like all of those are worth it for me to like get here to being like, I like me. Because literally I haven't been able to. really say that my whole life, which is just kind of intense.

• Speaker #1

  But yeah, I think even if you love yourself, it's actually really hard to like yourself.

• Speaker #0

  Oh, that's good.

• Speaker #1

  You know,

• Speaker #0

  say more about that. Like, what's your perspective on that?

• Speaker #1

  I don't know. It's really interesting. Like, I think about a lot. the parts of ourselves that like we're always trying to like throw away or wring our hands of or like I don't it's it's just hard like even if you love yourself and realize like you're deserving of love and deserve to exist out in the world and that you have worth just because you're alive like liking yourself is the next level because I mean I'm sure you can think of many people in your life that you've loved over the course of years that you haven't liked like liking yourself almost is a greater honor than love Because sometimes love is so automatic, but to like someone, that's a choice.

• Speaker #0

  I love that. Yeah, because love is this sacred contract that a lot of us view between humans. It's like, okay, I honor you. I honor your existence on this planet. But, oh, I want to spend the evening with you for hours. That's a different love. You're right.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, it's a choice. It's a choice to like yourself.

• Speaker #0

  It is a choice.

• Speaker #1

  And also it's a choice that's often viewed with contempt, especially for women. It's like, oh, well, she just thinks so much of herself. It's like, God forbid, I feel good.

• Speaker #0

  Right? I have this one girlfriend. She's legendary. She helped to spark the movement of the pussy hats that she created the template for it. And she had the vision for it. And she's been such a force. for strength in my life. Her name's Krista. And a couple of things she's done that have been revolutionary. One was she's, she loves, she likes herself and she modeled that liking of herself in throughout our entire friendship for the past 10 years. And I was like, that's cool. You know, that at first I was like a little bit like envious, you know, I was like, who says that? And I was like, why am I envious? Oh, cause I want that. You know, And the other things that she taught me is one of these times we were hanging out, we're in our late 20s. And she was like, I love money. I love talking about money. I was like, yes. Oh, my gosh, you're the first woman that's ever said that around me. Let's talk money. And so we talk money. You know, that's another thing. Anyways,

• Speaker #1

  it's so refreshing. No, I actually like I noticed a couple times throughout the conversation that you called out exact amounts. And I something I really found intriguing out in the world is there women who would literally talk about like the consistency of their shit before they would say like hey this is how much i made from that or i'm i am rich or i am struggling with money right now it's like you would talk about anything in the world before money it's odd and it's it's like it's almost like some weird unwritten contract we've all signed that we're not going to talk about it because bad things happen.

• Speaker #0

  Yes. I mean, like good for them for talking about the consistency of their shit. But also let's talk about money. That's really funny.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah.

• Speaker #0

  I did have FYI, TMI, but too bad. I did have my healthiest poo in a really long time today. So I'm very proud of that.

• Speaker #1

  As a girl with gut issues, I'm so happy for you. You came to the right show.

• Speaker #0

  I'm sorry you have gut issues. That's not fun.

• Speaker #1

  It's okay. It's, you know, part of my healing journey. I relate to a lot of your story and a lot of the body stuff I have, you know, eating disorder past too. And there's a lot wrapped up in this little sweet stomach. So,

• Speaker #0

  yeah.

• Speaker #1

  I did want to talk about something else that we've touched on, which is your parents. And I relate to a lot of the things that you've said about them. I am Italian Catholic and come from a very strong, close, overly involved family. A lot of love, a lot of mental illness. But anyway, when you're trying to find your own voice, one of the hardest voices to fully differentiate from is that of our parents. And obviously, you've made so many strong strides, like choosing yourself, even though their voices were really present. But like, I love when you talked about like auditioning for the voice so that they would understand. I really relate. And I wonder if you've let that part like that is their voice go or if you still feel driven by it in a way and what your journey is with that.

• Speaker #0

  Thanks for asking. Yeah, I think that my journey is still impacted by my my parents voices. I would say that it's not so much in my artistry and career anymore. It's more about. my womanhood and my fertility and my choices of being a woman who has placed her love for her ideas as a priority that have kind of led me down a path that's like a little less explored. It's just, but there's still, yeah. So I would say that there was a lot of my career that felt like a rebellion from them. And I think it really fueled into, it made sense that my music then became protest music, because I always use music to say the things I couldn't say in real life. And I protested a lot of the stuff that was happening in my household as a teenager through songwriting. And so it makes sense that my song became a protest song. I didn't really see that connection until afterwards. But I think my... I think there's like a fear of, ah, that's, that's kind of dark or so heavy, you know, like, maybe you can make happier music or yeah, like light, light, you know, keep it light. And I think it really made me question for many years who I am because I do have a depth to me. I do have this, this intensity about me. And I, I, and luckily the universe kind of The way the things worked, whatever it is, whoever, whatever it is, had it so that my one most vulnerable and most like gritty song that I had was a song that made me last, you know, on the mainstream stage, you know, or made me like break onto the mainstream stage. And so that helped me. However, it wasn't until maybe two years ago where I stopped like on my phone calls with my parents like, oh, I'm doing this. I'm doing that. Oh yeah, I'm doing this. Like, AKA what I'm saying is like, love me. I'm good. Tell me I'm good. Mom and dad, you know, now through how much they've been there for me through my broken neck, how much they were there for me through my last breakup. Like they're there for me. They love me. They're like my ride or die. It's like, they may not understand everything I'm doing, but I don't need to prove myself anymore. It's really been pretty proven that we're going to be there for each other for the rest of our lives. Like, and I think it's been, there's been a lot of healing. And, you know, I will say I had to take space from them. They didn't really love my last partner. And so I had to take distance from them. And that was the most painful thing. That's when I got a lot of gut issues. I had really bad acid reflux for a few years. I had to change my entire diet. I was just. highly, highly anxious and felt highly, highly guilty, holding the guilt of like splitting from my parents because of my choices even further. Like I already did it with my career and I'm doing with my personal life, but what saved me, and this is a lesson I hold through this time of social change upheaval is that my partner gave me this piece of advice that my ex did, that I think is one of the most useful tools even for now is. don't try to change them. Like if you're going to go home, don't try to change their mind. So I would go home and be like, I know you don't approve of our relationship. And that's, that's, I'm not trying to change your mind. I love you. I just want to have dinner with you. And it was like this disarming thing. And over time, then over three years, they decided to meet him. But with social change is the same thing. When I meet people who I don't fully agree with, it's like, I'm not in the business of changing this person's mind. I'm in the business of like just letting them feel heard. And then we just discover a few new things about each other. Maybe like take away that charge.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah.

• Speaker #0

  That staticky, angry charge that doesn't allow us to make decisions well.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah. And the weird thing is a lot of times when you do that and you just decide to whatever it is, like in the case of your parents, like love them for who they are. and where they're at, they end up changing.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah.

• Speaker #1

  And it's really upsetting as somebody who sometimes thinks I can like sprinkle my magic on something and make it change that actually do less because it does more.

• Speaker #0

  Yes. Yes. And it's like that fine balance, I think, for me navigating the wisdom you just said of not hiding too much, right? There's like this careful balance. It's like... For example, I was sitting with a family member and they were talking about they're on a different they they're on a different spectrum of the political rainbow than I am. And they were saying, like, oh, it's good. You know, you know, there's a lot of women who are just cheating and getting in the army. They don't even know how to fight. And so it's good we got rid of all these DEI things. And I was like, OK, I'm feeling heat in my chest and feeling like this, this. itchiness and discomfort and I want to run like in my feet, in my hands. And, but I'm just going to like, just let it be quiet for a second. And I was like, oh, that's interesting. Cause I, I, I thought that women like, you know, there's a lot of athletic women that get in just like everybody else. I don't know if that's true, but what I will say about the DEI stuff is that, you know, it's actually helped me get more jobs. Like The world kind of opened up to me in a different way as an Asian woman. So these laws actually have actually taken away some of my opportunities. And that family member just never thought of it that way. Is he going to agree with me now? No. But did he do his usual kind of like fight back? No, it was just quiet, just processing. And then we kept eating.

• Speaker #1

  Oh, you should put that's a good lyric. And then we kept eating. Yeah, it's so true, though, because like I heard something recently that said, like, we don't need to like melt people's hearts and completely change their mind. We just need to move them a little bit. to the other side. And by approaching with personal stories and with like heartfelt truths of your own life, it's a lot more likely for it to happen than if you're pointing at someone saying you're bad and you're wrong.

• Speaker #0

  Yes. Yes. Completely. That's so well said. Like just shifting the standard from like melting hearts to just scooching us a little bit off from the fringes.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah. Yeah.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah.

• Speaker #1

  I want to talk a little bit about this album because Mother Tongue, it is so beautiful. The song Mother Tongue cracked me open. My family's from Sicily. And I recently discovered that we had first cousins there this whole time. And my dad didn't tell me that my grandpa left a brother there. So I like ended up on their doorstep. And I was like, Hi, I'm Lauren LaGrasso. I think I'm your cousin. So anyway, it has been the most beautiful thing. We're on WhatsApp together. But It was really sad. There was a moment when we were visiting with them and they said, why don't you speak Italian? And I had to use Google Translate to explain to them why my grandpa didn't teach it to my dad and how we were trying to assimilate. Because at that time, I mean, many times in America, like it was safer to just fit in. And they all just went silent. And it was a heartbreaking moment. So I so related to the song. And I wonder if you'd take us a little bit into what the song's about and yeah, just anything you want to share about it.

• Speaker #0

  Wow. Thanks for sharing that story. What a moving thing to find a whole faction of your family that you didn't realize was there. And then to explain that on Google translate, I'm just like picturing the moments as you're typing and they're waiting for you as you're typing.

• Speaker #1

  It was sad.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. That, that, that moment where your family is waiting for you as you're typing is like, that's that pop those pockets of silence that are filled with yearning and filled with this longing to be understood, but not having the tools maybe for overly expressed facial expressions. Like I smile very big when I'm with my grandma, like all my expressions just go to like, like, I don't know, like a kid's show almost. And I've always felt like, cause I'm a deep feeler and a deep processor and To not be able to explore that with my family members is a heartbreaking thing. And sometimes it's through language barriers. Sometimes it's not through language barriers. It's just through lack of desire to connect that way. So it's just like constantly feeling like I'm not able to really connect with the people I hold so dear to me in this way that makes me feel seen. And I realized as I was writing this song that... Like, it's not just about me feeling seen. It's also about them, them also loving me through all of that, even though they didn't know any of that, they still were there for me, still like fed me, still clothed me. And, and also as I get older, I look at young, like kids and stuff. There's so much knowing that I have about who that little kid is. And that little kid has no idea that I know that. So I felt comforted by that. And it gave me enough, like, emotional buoy of an emotional buoy to write this song to really explore this quiet loneliness that a lot of us hold because we now navigate this world as global families like we traverse and we immigrate to different places and we lose parts of our mother tongue yeah

• Speaker #1

  there's so much grief yes that is not spoken I mean of course it's like you're grateful that like they took a chance on themselves and found a better life. But the grief and what was lost that you never even really knew.

• Speaker #0

  Yes. It brings up this point to me when you say this, that the best luxury, now that I'm getting to this point in my life where I'm watching our country just become what it's becoming. Is this democracy dream? Can we keep it alive? There's a lot of things at stake. And being in this fragile point in history also is a luxury because it really shows us what is important to us. To be able to live in the same place as your grandparents and to be able to speak the same language, to know the same historical landmarks in your hometown, to have the same understanding, that is a luxury that so many people don't have because we have to move to another place to flee whatever traumas we're fleeing. You know what I mean?

• Speaker #1

  Yeah. It's so true. It's so true. I mean, my family who lives in Marsala, Sicily, Like This last time we went back, I was like, I don't know if we did leave for a better life. They have a beautiful life. Maybe we left for a bigger life. That's true. That's true. But I don't know. Like they they have beautiful like my one cousin is a teacher and she has a house by the sea and a condo in the city like she has a beautiful life.

• Speaker #0

  Wow.

• Speaker #1

  And she has that continuity of story where it's like everyone in her line has been there. And so I think no matter what, you lose something and you gain something.

• Speaker #0

  Right. And when you say continuity of story, she stayed to be a part of the story. And then our parents left for a new story, like another story. We were told a story of this land and what we could be what we could create here. And I love what you just said about how it's like, not maybe not a better life, but a bigger life. So true. So true. That's a that's a song lyric right there.

• Speaker #1

  Maybe we'll collaborate on. I just love you. I think you're such an important person. I love the way you speak. In addition to the way you sing, you're just anytime you want to drop into deep thought or feeling with me. I'm so, so here for it.

• Speaker #0

  I'll put my matching lipstick with your,

• Speaker #1

  we can sit on this couch together and chat. Um, is there anything else you want to share about your music, your artistry, where you're at?

• Speaker #0

  Um, you know, on my heart, my album, mother tongue has been a really, really important one. And I'm creating some new music now. It's kind of just flooding out like sisters of winter is a new song. that went viral four days after I dropped my album. And so I haven't really promoted my album. I've just been like chasing the, not chasing, but like working on this thing that just has its own life. And I'm going to be working with ACLU with that song and they're having me become their spokesperson. And I'm going to work with their youth next month and learn from them really. But I'll be able to, I'm going to be in DC working with the youth there, but really, you know, so that's that's kind of what's coming up. And I think, you know, I've talked about Morning Bird, this song a lot, and I just wanted to pay tribute to a friend of that I lost and many of us lost. His name's Jemon Johnson, and he was part of Memphis Rocks. And he just recently, his life was taken way too soon from gun violence. And so I'm just, you know, you just had Shannon Watts on your show and she has done such incredible work with Moms Demand Action, founding it. and So I'm just, yeah, I think my, I have a lot of grief in my heart right now for people who lose their beloveds through gun violence. And then also I'm just thinking about Mond a lot. And he always wondered about having more time in his life to do bird watching. Yeah, Morning Bird, I've been thinking about him a lot for that. So I just wanted to send a little shout out to him and to Memphis Rocks.

• Speaker #1

  Hmm. Well, I just want to tribute this episode to him. And I hope that we can all go out. We're at whatever time of day you're listening to this. Like if it's at night, go out tomorrow. But if it's still light out, maybe go outside and just sit or go on a walk and look for the birds and see what it inspires in your creativity.

• Speaker #0

  I love that.

• Speaker #1

  You're so special. Thank you for being who you are. It's a very who you are is the best thing about you. And it comes through in the way you speak. in the way you sing, in the way you write. You are everywhere. It's like your work and you are one. And I just really appreciate you as an artist. Thank you for being here.

• Speaker #0

  Thank you, Lauren.

• Speaker #1

  Thanks for listening and thanks to my guests, Milk. For more info on Milk, follow her at M-I-L-C-K Music and visit her website, milkmusic.com. You can stream her latest album, Mother Tongue, and her gorgeous single, Sisters of Winter, wherever you get your music. Unleash Your Inner Creative is hosted and executive produced by me, Lauren LaGrasso, edited by Blondel Garcon, with theme music by Liz Fole. Again, creative cutie. Thank you. If you like what you heard today, remember to rate, review, and follow the show on Apple Podcasts and Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Share the show with a friend and post about it on social media. Tag me at Lauren LaGrasso and at Unleash Your Inner Creative, and I will repost to share my gratitude. You can also tag Milk so she can share as well. My wish for you this week is that you call back one lost piece of yourself, whether it's your voice, your story, or your joy. Welcome it in. Acknowledge that you've missed it and let Let that be your starting point. I love you and I believe in you. Talk with you next week.