Transcription

• Speaker #0

  What if the reason you feel stuck creatively isn't because you don't know what to do, but because you're hiding? Hiding your voice, your story, and the thing you actually want to say. Today's guest is someone who has spent decades helping other people not do that. He's helped shape some of the biggest voices in podcasting, producing, guiding, and bringing other people's stories to life. But for a long time, he was hiding. He wasn't sharing his own story until life forced him to ask a question so many of us avoid. What am I here to say? Today, he'll help you ask and answer that question too. Welcome to Unleash Your Inner Creative with Lauren LaGrasso. I'm Lauren LaGrasso, a three-time Webby Award-winning podcast host and producer, singer-songwriter, public speaker, and creative coach. This show is meant to give you tools to love, trust, and know yourself enough to claim your birthright to creativity and go after your wildest dreams. Today, I'm talking with my friend, Rich Berner. He is an incredible producer, storyteller, and someone who has helped shape amazing shows like Jemele Hill is Unbothered, The Oral History of the Office, and The Goop Podcast, which we actually worked on together. He also recently wrote his debut book, Not So Only Child, and started a company called Dump Truck Media, which helps kids find their voice and hone their creativity. It's an incredible thing that we talk about on the podcast. In this conversation, we talk about what it takes to step out from behind the scenes and finally own your voice, how to tell the stories you're scared to tell, and why the thing you've been avoiding might actually be the key to your next chapter. If you've been feeling the pull to express yourself more fully, but something keeps stopping you, this episode is for you. So let's get to it. Here he is, Rich Berner. You know, it is funny, like so many people who you would think would be like great at audio, like Grammy award winning artists don't have the simplest things like a microphone.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, well, I you know what, I have run into that and I won't say any names, but I've run into artists who are Grammy winners. And if they rhymed, it would be on judgment. And who just struggled with the whole technical. part of it it surprised me i expected that would be like oh well here where this is what it was like no it's just pure talent that's that's it's talent and music and let's get put me give me a microphone no technical skills yes exactly yeah

• Speaker #0

  it's true i've had that same experience uh with somebody that rhymes with marisha knees so sweet though like the kindest person but i was like you don't have a microphone

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, super nice, super nice. But it's just like, really? This is what? Okay, okay. All right.

• Speaker #0

  So if you couldn't tell from that, Rich and I know each other. We have a rich background, you might say. We have worked together in the podcast trenches on hit shows such as Girlboss Radio, The Goop Podcast. I think there were more. What else did we work on together?

• Speaker #1

  Oh. Man, my brain is just, I just think of- Other things? Tons of other things involved.

• Speaker #0

  Lauren Conrad asked for a friend. Oh, Lauren Conrad, yes. That was a big collaborative piece for us.

• Speaker #1

  Charlie and Dixie.

• Speaker #0

  Oh my God. Well, you handed off the reins to me on that one. I picked up the reins.

• Speaker #1

  You're welcome.

• Speaker #0

  Thank you so much. And so we met working at Cadence 13, which turned into Odyssey. You were always a person rich. Sometimes it's hard in corporate America, even when you're working at a creative company, there's people who are supportive of you having hopes and dreams that aren't just pertaining to your job. And there's people that are a little bit more dismissive, or at the very least, they don't care. And you were always, from the very first time I met you, because one of my first interviews, I think I had three or four interviews on the road to getting that job. One of my first interviews was with you and you were like, oh my gosh, you're a musician? That's wonderful. Like, I think we could utilize that talent here. And you're always so encouraging of me as a creative. I just have always loved you. You're an amazing listener. You're an incredible creator. I've seen that same light in you and the way you tell stories. And so I wanted to have you on the show because you're someone who's inspired me, who's supported me, who's believed in me. And it is so cool to see you out in the world now, putting that light out there all on your own. and sharing your voice. So thank you for being here. But more importantly, thank you for being a believing mirror for me all these years.

• Speaker #1

  Well, thank you. I mean, I guess it's a knack or a gift or whatever, but I've always had the knack or gift where people will open up to me and talk to me about themselves and what they want. Any place I've been, family, life, and everything else, everything works better if people have some sort of happiness and goal.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah.

• Speaker #1

  And if people feel like what they're doing is part of a greater mission, I'm talking about their personal mission. Could be making money. Some people are just doing stuff to make money. But most people are doing something because they want to feel good about themselves. They want to feel like they showed the world something. It could be creative. It could be I'm smarter than. It could be this. It could be I'm the best chef. It could be whatever it is. Most people want to do that. So from a young age, I just talk to people. How can we make this fun for you? Because I want it to be fun. And if it's not fun for you, it's probably not fun for me either. So let's figure out ways to do that.

• Speaker #0

  Well, we had lots of fun. We did. I loved anytime we got to intersect. I wanted to have you on the show, not just because of that, because you also have this incredible story that you have told. And I want to talk about stepping out, owning your voice after being in a supportive role for so many years. And then also, how do we tell the most complex, intimate stories of our lives? So two simple subjects. But before we dive into that, I'm just curious to know some of your personal creative journey. I've obviously learned some of it over the years of us working together, but I want to know, like, what did you want to do when you were a little kid and how did that transform into what you do today? Like what was the path to get here?

• Speaker #1

  I had no idea what I wanted to do when I was a little kid, but when I was handed my first recorder, handheld recorder as a gift for graduating sixth grade, the light went on and I spent countless hours driving my family crazy because I was just recording, creating, recording, creating, recording, because I was then obsessed with sound and audio and what I could do. And that's that translated into a love of radio. two friends of uh of mine and we did it we had a pirate radio station thanks to an electronic savant in high school who i helped pass his um social studies class what what is a pirate radio station sorry sorry prior to everything going digital when everything was this is right before everything went digital and you still had a dial to go with right if you go up to 107.9 was the highest you could go. Okay? But you could tune... take the tuner and push it it would go further but there was nothing there because the airplane frequencies going into jfk which flew over us started at like 108.5 that's the frequency they used to talk back and forth to the tower he put his on at 108.1 basically said to him would you set one up for me and my friends if we do something for you and he's like i said i can help you pass that class the one you've taken because i think he took it like for the second year in a row I can help you pass that class. And I did. I helped him pass the class. And he went, got it. And he showed up at my friend's house with the transmitter. And then he went on, he flipped it on. He goes, okay, you guys are 108.3. My friends' name were John and Jim. And I said, we'll be WJRJ. And we were 108.3 WJRJ. And we broadcast, you know, three days a week after school. We just go there and play records and talk nonsense. Anyway, that's how I got into it.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. And then you had... a very extensive career and you still have an extensive career as a producer. So did you transition after that into production? Well,

• Speaker #1

  what I was doing was at the time when I was interning and then it was a paid internship and then my boss told them I was still interning even though I wasn't. So it became a part-time job thanks to my boss, Bruce, who told them that. And he was the director of production. And this was, again, this was the end of, but still using the giant reel-to-reels, you know? So if I was putting music montages together, it was 50 little pieces of tape, quarter-inch tape, taped together.

• Speaker #0

  So that's how you'd edit it.

• Speaker #1

  That's how you edited, which ultimately is what got me most of, if not all, my jobs as I leapfrogged around, because I had expertise in production and could also be on the air. Yeah. Is what gave me my ability to leapfrog.

• Speaker #0

  So you're producing, you're doing on-air stuff. I know you were doing voiceover. And then a few years ago, you had this kind of resurgence where one of the jobs you had been working on came to an end. And you... really like in that time had to reinvent yourself and go after some of the things that you had maybe been wanting to do, some of the things that maybe you were scared to do. And I just wondered if you could talk us through that transition period and how you came to finally be able to like put your own voice out there, put your ideas out there fully after being in a supportive role for so many years. What was that process like?

• Speaker #1

  You know, I think, again, I think that life keeps offering us opportunities to do what, I won't say what we should do, because I don't know if there's anything really we should do, but what we want to do, you know, it keeps offering us opportunities. If it's in our brain, we're thinking that, thinking that life will provide little openings, little opportunities to do it. Sometimes they're hard to recognize. Sometimes they're, you know, they're banging you over the head. A couple of years ago, as things came slowing down to a grinding halt, etc., and it was right now I executive produce podcasts for the most money that I can make, whatever. But it's not what I wanted to do for a living. It's what I did because it comes naturally and it supported my family fairly well. When that was no longer the case, not I don't mean the comes naturally part. I mean, when it wasn't supporting the way it was. I thought, okay, you know, I went through another radio to into podcasting transition and I dabbled in doing stuff that really fed my soul, but I started developing other ideas. And I've always had ideas, you know, that we talk and I'd be like, oh, yeah, here's four, here's four different paths. You could take that. You could make this much money. You can make this, you can, this, this way my brain works. There's 90 things going on in my brain at the same time. And. And the story I wrote in the book had, and you knew the story because I had told you the story, so you knew it existed. I had tried to write this book 10 years ago, and I even hired a ghostwriter, and I really didn't like what they gave me. And it's not their fault. It's just we didn't connect properly. They were giving me a story about me, and I was like, no, that's not what I want. And I tried multiple times to go back, and I went to a writing clinic that was in L.A. over and over. Not every week, but I'd go like every two months. And I'd be like, I made a lot of progress. I changed things. And then life would intervene. And I'd go, backseat, At the precipice of everything changing, one of the people I was talking to was someone who I had helped him produce his podcast. But I also produced his audio book for him 10 years ago. And when we did it, I remember the people at Apple telling us, that's fantastic. What we did, we made it more of like a soundscape than just. It was him reading his book. We created soundscape around it and, you know, including other voices and music and then made it into a story. And it was a podcast. We turned it into a podcast from just an audio book. And I thought he said to me, well, I said, dude, I really got to finish that. I really want to finish the book and primarily, again, using somebody else, not me. I want to finish the book because I want my kids to have this, especially the story about my mother. And only my oldest was alive. And my mom died when they were three. So the other two are just like stories. Yeah. Okay. I said, I want my kids to know this story. And he's like, well, dude, I don't know. You've been trying for so long. So why don't you just do what you do? I was like, what do you mean? So get in the booth and tell the story. It's like, what? He goes, you never have a problem talking. You never have a problem with a microphone. He goes, I haven't witnessed it anyway. So why don't you just get in there? Take what you have. Don't read it. Tell it to us. And I was like, light bulb, boom. I was like, you got to be, how could I have not thought of this? And I was like, well, then I started asking questions. Well, you think it should be a podcast? Should it be a book? Should it be this? He goes, I don't know what it should be. You'll figure it out. I was like, you're right. There I go. Jumping too far ahead. into something that will stop me from doing it. So I came back and I was like, okay, late at night, this is because it was like, I couldn't stop doing what I was doing during the day. I late at night, a couple of nights a week, I would get in there and I took the pages that I already had kind of mark them up. And I went in there and probably used 45%. I use it as a guideline. I would definitely use it for pivots and specific information I needed that was in there and went in and started telling the story. And I put the first one together and then I produced it and put the whole thing together. And you were one of the first people I shared it with. Because I was like, I need. I need ears on this. So I shared it with Sarah, my wife, and I may have shared it with my oldest, Shannon, but I know I was like, I need a professional set of ears on this. Who do I trust? And the list was not huge. And I was like, okay, who do I trust? And who has this story resonated with when I've told it over the years? And I knew it resonated with you when I told the story. I said, Let me see. And I will ask for notes. And what do you think? And I'm like, and I did, I literally get shared it with you and said, Hey, notes, even if the notes are dude, this blows. I'm okay. I'm all right. I just need to know if this is the right path. And you came back with these beautiful notes and, and which were really helpful on, you know, I didn't understand this, this seemed rough. I was like, Oh, okay. And I think you should, you have, this is your open. And I was like, ah all right lauren was engaged i did it first step she was engaged and i know she knows me but she was engaged in the story and telling me ways because i've seen you work telling me ways you think we could improve it so i knew your ways i mean not everyone would work but i knew your ways were part of the path um so that's where that began while this is all happening again Day to day, still working with people, helping them do their podcasts and make their money and do all their consulting. They're consulting. They're paying me doing voiceover, voiceover jobs. No, you know, no major ones, but a lot of regional, a lot, a lot of Florida stuff.

• Speaker #0

  And shout out to Florida.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah. Shout out to Florida. Space Coast Credit Union. That's me. We had to get together a group of friends who got back together over COVID. Two of them are the people I did the pirate radio station with. Most of them I hadn't seen in decades, in decades. But over COVID, we ended up getting back together as this little group of like, I'll call it seven to ten people. So it varies on who's in. And we just started having like monthly calls. And it was really nice to reconnect because one of them I had one of them I was pseudo in connection with. Another one I reconnected with about 15 years ago. And he's a friend I grew up with. And he's the one who I am currently partnered with in business because he super talented musician. And then he went to work as a teacher for a middle school, private middle school in North Carolina. And he was the I.T. person and a teacher who taught media arts. So when, you know, Facebook blew up and everything else happened, he reached he found me, reached out and said, hey, would you. Hey, great to connect. Would you talk to my kids because you're out there in L.A. and, you know. If they hear a guy on radio from LA who's done all this stuff, they'll freak out because my kids, he built a radio station there for his kids. So I said, yeah, I'll talk to your kids. So I would talk to his kids, whatnot. That became podcasting. And I became the, you know, the week one of his, every one of his classes, he now has Zoom recorded of me going, hey guys, talking about podcasting and how to, you know, how they can tell their story and how they can use their voice. And then I still meet with the kids occasionally after they have their ideas so they can chat with me about what they're going to talk about. And I just, you know, I don't tell them what to do. I said, I'm not here to tell you what to do. I'm here to listen and ask questions. And maybe those questions can help you make a better story. We get together at a Mets game in Atlanta a couple of years, two years ago. And while we're there, he's telling me and we're talking about his kids and how we get together. You know, we've been friends for reconnected for a while. He's telling me about the success stories, telling everybody about the success stories of the kids. He goes, no, I'm not talking about the kids who can stand in front of the refrigerator at 2 a.m. and talk for half an hour. He goes, I'm talking about the kids who come in, head down, hard to get words out of them. And dyslexic kids. He said, sometimes there's difficulties that, you know, I don't want to get into and everything else. He said, but these kids are struggling. They're struggling to communicate and connect with life. He goes, after this class, after they've done this podcast and this podcast, he said. It's not a miracle where they're going to run for class president. He goes, but they're looking up now. They're raising their hand and asking questions. They've spoken, they've heard their voice and they've had the other kids listen and go, okay, this was really good. I would change this. And they've gone, I can do this. I can do this. So it's like they've got, they've, it's like they've been, they popped out of their box and they're here now. I was like, dude, you need to market that. Because if we had that in middle school, can you imagine how much easier high school, college, and life would have been to start? He goes, well, I'll do it if you help. And two and a half years later, we have a business that we're doing.

• Speaker #0

  And it's called the Sandbox Network.

• Speaker #1

  It's called the Sandbox Network for Dump Truck Media. And we can talk about that a little bit later.

• Speaker #0

  I definitely want to get into it. I mean, before we get into the details of any of your projects, I want to know what did it feel like to put yourself out there and be like, I know you've known me as this guy who does voiceover and produces podcasts and what have you. But now I'm actually an author. an audio book creator, a business owner, what did that feel like? And also part B of the question, what did you have to overcome in order to put yourself out there and believe in yourself, really?

• Speaker #1

  You know, I always believed in myself. I just didn't believe that others would. And

• Speaker #0

  I... Tell me about that.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, I thought that. I always said I'm great in a room with one to three people, but if I get in a room because of nerves, I get a room with 40 or I stand in front of an audience of 200, I don't know if I'm any good anymore because internal voices probably block the same neuro connectors that are there. I've never failed in front of a big audience or anything. I haven't been in front of a lot of them, but I've never failed. So I don't know where or why that happened or why that's wired that way? But putting it out there and doing that and sharing it, it was I was nervous, but I've auditioned for, you know, I've auditioned and come in, you know, been summarily rejected or come in second for some big things and some some big places in L.A. I've, you know, was always like, how am I always second? So I understand that. I think I was more concerned about sharing this with. people who i hadn't seen in a long time family friends things like that than i was which then sharing it with people i trusted like yourself obviously or people of trust or even strangers i was like oh boy here we go oh boy here we go because it was the old concerns that the things they said somehow would have more wield more power because they knew the real me and that's again i'm I'm not. I would say I am cognizant of it, but I'm not hampered by it. And there were times in my life where I realized I was hampered by it. And that's why it was important that I get there now and do that now. There's no specific date, reason, or anything else like that. I had just stopped myself enough, enough times to say, no, not anymore. Not anymore. I'm going to put this story together. I'm going to get it out there as a book and an audio book. And maybe someday it'll be a podcast too and whatnot. And I want this story out there and I'm going to promote it and I'm going to go full in on it. And I'm going to build this side business and try to build this business because I really, really, really believe in the value of what it provides for so many kids. so many humans and that's going to be my mark and it's like you know what my mark is not going to be i produced that show because people only remember even if it's hugely successful they only remember the show or the star they don't remember the cast they don't remember the people they don't remember they don't they don't care and it doesn't matter and and nor should they it's not like you should oh you got to remember everybody but it's like i i think they should actually well i'm gonna I'm going to fight you on that.

• Speaker #0

  I think that... not acknowledging every person that made a production successful is a sin. And I think that people who don't should have to atone for that sin.

• Speaker #1

  You know, I'm not going to argue with you on that. Yeah. Because it's not.

• Speaker #0

  I mean, there's a reason there's credits on movies. I'm not saying that everyone's going to be like, oh, the assistant to the makeup person. But like, it should be remembered. And I'm not saying like the general public should. But at the very least, the people at the helm should. Right. And they should. Right. be vocal about everybody that made their success happen.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah. I mean, I, I will, um, I will, I will say that my, I wasn't like, I don't believe they should more as just surrendering over the years. They don't.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. I hear you. I hear you. No, it's totally true. It's, it's why if you have been, if you listening right now are in any sort of supportive role, if that doesn't bother you, that's great. But if there's a part of you that wants to have something that is your own, I beg of you, please go tw- toward that. Follow what feels warm. And I want to ask you, Rich, because you said that held you back so many times. You said no to yourself so many times. If there's somebody listening who's continually saying no to themselves for fear of judgment of the people in their lives, what would be your advice to them? Like, is there anything that could have been said to you in that time when you were saying no to yourself that would have turned that no to a yes?

• Speaker #1

  I think the issue is with folks is you need to really dig in and say, what is going to make you happy? What is going to give you a feeling of satisfaction? I mean, we label that as happy and happy has this kind of broad, wide definition that just gets people into arguments. So what is going to give you that satisfaction? It feels like I did it. Everybody has a few things. Some have hundreds of things. Some have a few things. Some have one thing. I don't know. I don't know. Everybody has things on that list of I wish I could. I want to. I can. And then there's the list next to it going reasons why you can't. OK, there are some if you go on the list, there are some legit like, you know, I want to I want to fly solo into space. Well, you don't have the money, but you might be able to. You might be able to fly with a group. You might be like find a way if that's going to make your heart sore. Find a way, because there are things as we grow as a kid, as a teen, as a young adult. There are things that we go, oh, vision board stuff, vision board stuff. vision board stuff some of the stuff 10 years later you go it wasn't you know but there's other stuff you go yeah yeah you got vision board stuff that has lasted you decades you gotta act on it you gotta find a way somehow it doesn't have to be exactly what's on the vision board that's the problem people get involved and go it has to be exactly this no no what there are a million ways surrounding that whether it's traveling somewhere going somewhere being involved in this morning opening up Learning how to be a chef for an Italian restaurant because you always wanted to visit Italy, but you can't afford to fly there right now. But in, you know, and doing so, my, oh my gosh, I became a part-time chef and I met somebody and they invited me over to Italy and they're going to actually put me up. How did that happen? You know what I mean? The way things happen is by you stepping into that pool. And until you step into that pool, you will continue to sit on the side and go. And they look like they're having fun.

• Speaker #0

  And to your point, putting energy behind something. Like sometimes I wonder if certain things that I've had really great success with have just been more successful simply because I put more energy into it. Like if you put 100% of your energy into anything, something's going to happen. Like you said, it might not be the exact thing you thought. But if you're putting pure, good, excited energy into something. Usually you will attain some sort of result. Even if it's not exactly your vision, you're going to get closer. And it might be something that's like pushing you toward that vision down the road.

• Speaker #1

  Right, right. Exactly. Start to move forward. Baby steps. You can take leaps if you want. If you're bold and you have the wherewithal and you can do it, sure, take a leap. But take baby steps, baby steps.

• Speaker #0

  We call it microdosing courage on this show.

• Speaker #1

  micro dose your courage because those small steps that you take, those small brave new steps that you take will all add up. They all add up. And what it does is it tells the universe, oh, this is what this person wants. Will you get it exactly as you want? No, but you will get some version of here's some paths you can explore that will help you dive deeper into this path. You will constantly get that, whether it's people connecting with you, opportunities, happenstance, things that occur. Or, like I said, you could end up going, oh, my gosh, I took this job at this place and I'm really upset about it and everything else. And then you meet somebody on the job that goes, I have the same idea and I have someone who can help you with that. It's it is that I mean, think about think about this from your own path and your own career. The people you met, there are people you met along the way at each one of those stops. It could have been, we're all robots. We're all doing this. We're all, yeah, great, And you got to figure it all out on yourself. But there are people who at each of those stops that helped elevate you and helped, encouraged you to spread your wings and go. And without them, it doesn't mean you wouldn't have, but every single time you met one of those people, you inched forward. You inched forward. You inched forward. I know you well enough to know that you're not afraid. You're not terrified to take leaps.

• Speaker #0

  You're worried. You seem worried.

• Speaker #1

  I was a little bit before. I think I recently had a moment like the one you're talking about where I realized, okay, the world can do whatever it wants to me. But what I'm not going to do anymore is close the door on myself. I've been shutting the door on myself because I've been afraid because of various things. Yes, sure. Not people in my immediate circle, but people in my outer circle judging me. the confines of corporate life. And I'm like, you know what? I just can't be the one that says no to me. If the world says no, once I say yes, fine. But as long as I continually am saying yes to myself, I'm going to be okay. And there's never been a failure that I've gone through, because I've gone through many failures that I haven't survived and actually come out of more creative and more innovative. So I'm just going to trust because I've been so blessed in my life that And that I have a lot of skills, like I will be able to pull myself out of any situation. And even if I'm doing something that seems crazy, like just because it's so risky, I don't know. Maybe there's a reason I feel called to that.

• Speaker #0

  No, I mean, you have to try. You have to put it out there. You have to do it. You'll be sad if you don't. You'll care. You'll care. You know what? If you do it, whether you fail or succeed. ultimately you'll feel good that you took the chance and you may be like ah but now i'm frustrated because i failed but you took the chance you'll feel way worse if you just put another one of those boulders in your backpack that is like there's another opportunity i didn't take there's another opportunity i didn't take there's another thing i didn't do there's another thing because eventually that backpack can be so heavy you're just you become an automaton you just can't do anything and and you're just gonna i'm just i'm just cashing i'm just you know i'm just I'm going in and I'm taking tolls through the bridge. I'm a toll taker and someday I'll die. I mean, who wants that? Yeah. Who wants that life? No one.

• Speaker #1

  No one was born to live that life.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. No, no, absolutely not. I mean, so yes, step forward when you have ideas. They don't need to be validated by other people. Create, share, share them. Start taking the steps. Investigate. Do what you need to do.

• Speaker #1

  So I love all that. We could talk about. just this one topic forever, but I want people to understand what this book is about. Can you briefly share the most profound story of your life?

• Speaker #0

  There you go.

• Speaker #1

  And why you felt like I have to tell you. I mean, you basically said the reason you said I have to tell it is because you were caring about something that I deeply care about, which is what I call your creative legacy. It's like what you leave for your family, your artifacts.

• Speaker #0

  Okay.

• Speaker #1

  So tell this story.

• Speaker #0

  The not so only child. is the story of what happens when a young adult who is very close to their single mom, their mom dies, and they go home to clean out their apartment, clean out their mom's apartment, a little tiny apartment that they lived in, they grew up in, and going through all that stuff finds a literally a cadre of written material that shows their mother had this secret kind of existence. I don't mean like a spy. Because their mom would say, go to work, I come home, I take care of my son. I go to work, I take care of my son. We go bowling, we go to baseball. We go bowling, we go to baseball. It was very simple, a very simple life. And I'm going through all this material, and I found stuff in there that told me the narrative I knew as the only child with a single mother was not true. And I'm sitting in the room by myself as I discover this. And just... arrow in the forehead boom um and maybe i suspected maybe but i always you know my mom always had a whenever i would push she always had a name rank and serial number response for me name rank and serial number and i just you know and she'd get upset and i'd be like it's not worth it it's not worth it it's not worth it and i found out that i had um i i found out who my father was and i found out that I found out I had siblings. And, you know, I was, you know, I like that point. I was just about 30 years old. So I was like, this changes everything. And then I had to figure out what to do with that information, because there's a whole lot of complications that went with this discovery that didn't make it just like, oh, I'm going to go. I'm going to go text somebody. I'm going to go pick up the phone and call somebody. No, no, it was it was big and it was deep. And on top of it. It left me really rattled, upset, hurt, and angry to different degrees. Even angry to a degree at my mom, who I was beloved, who I loved. for not sharing things and whatnot. The book tells the story leading up to that, how that happened. It is pretty dramatic lead up to it and how that occurred and then deals with me dealing with that and figuring out how to navigate it and figuring out how to come to terms and ultimately some form of peace with everything that's there. It was not fast. It was not easy. And I always say, well, life will give you one of the themes in the book is the universe kept pushing me. The universe kept bringing this back and kept going and kept pushing me until I got to the point that I'm at now. I was like, oh, OK, I get it now. So that's the story in a nutshell.

• Speaker #1

  It's so good. You have to you listening have to read this book. or listen to the audio book. It is so, I mean, you cannot even imagine how compelling this story is and how beautiful it is too. So on this, because I mean, you can correct me if I'm wrong, but this seems to be one of, if not your most personal, most gut-wrenching, most healing and profound stories of your life. And you chose to tell it publicly and you've outlined some of those reasons. But what's your advice for someone listening on why they might want to tell whatever this story is for them and how to begin to tell their story?

• Speaker #0

  Sure thing. Sure thing. Okay, so everybody has a story like this, if not a handful of stories like this from their life. Everybody's like, I'm not an author. I'm not a podcast host. I'm not an influencer. I don't have a YouTube show, et cetera, et cetera, whatever. Doesn't matter. So the first thing I would say, and I've told people this in the past, is start to write down why you want to tell the story. You can get a notebook. Okay. It's easy. Get a notebook. And you don't have to do it. You don't have to journal every night. Some people are like, I can't journal every night. I can't. You don't have to. But you're going to get hit by this. And sit down. Give yourself 60 minutes. And go, I'm going to write down why I want to tell this story. Why is it important to me to tell this story? And just stick with it. Stay in there in that space for 60 minutes. Don't have TV on, radio on, podcast playing. Don't have anything happening. Stick with it and see if you might get 40 minutes in and go, I just wrote these three things. This is the same thing. Okay. You can probably go, my 60 is up right now. But more often than not, people will be sitting there and then they'll write something down. This, this, this, this, this, and they go, oh, yeah, but there's also this. But there's the but this. Oh, I forgot about that. There's this, there's that. Why do you want to tell this story? And if you want to tell the story, the easy, it's really easy to do. You don't think you're a writer. If you, some people don't want to use their voice and some people want to write. Okay, so write, journal. You can make a Google doc and just create a Google doc. If you want to just record it, you know, Adobe podcast is free. You can literally just sit there. I mean, you might be limited in the amount of time you can use per day, but you can literally just sit there and tell stories. And it'll create a transcript for you. And you can download it. It's easy to tell your stories. And once you start telling it and you put it down for a day or three days or even a week and you come back to it, then you're like, oh. Oh, it becomes almost third person for a little bit for your review at this point. Oh, OK, this is something I got something here. So I would encourage, you know, anyone that wants to tell their stories to to start in, like you said, micro doses of courage, micro doses, micro doses of recording it, be it written or verbal or hold your if you want to get in front of your iPhone, get in front of your iPhone or. Sorry, Android people. Yeah.

• Speaker #1

  Deepest apologies. Yes. No, I love something you're pointing out and that you pointed out earlier, which is I always say create in the medium you feel comfortable in. Like when I'm creating a speech, a lot of times I go on a walk, audio record into my phone and then come home and transcribe it. And then I write the speech from that. You know, if you're an artist, you can paint it out, like paint out the plot points or whatever, draw it out and then transform that into words. Just because you are writing something. doesn't mean everything has to be the written word. Allow yourself to create or co-create in the way that feels most home to you.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. And like you said, you're talking about artists, and I left that out as far as you can just draw, just sketch, just sketch and don't, you know, don't, don't. crumple up or rip anything up. Do a time where you're going to go, okay, I've got 25 pages in this sketchbook and it's cost me a dollar. I went to the dollar store and I got it. I'm going to fill this up. So instead of when you get frustrated with something, instead of going, because we know how creatives can be, I'm like that too. Just go, you know what? Next, turning the page. You can always go back and get rid of it later, but just allow yourself to stay in the moment and not get consumed by Bye. Bye. emotions which will take you off track.

• Speaker #1

  Such good advice. And wrapping up, I want to just give another plug to Sandbox Network. What else do you want the people to know about this amazing platform you have for kids and schools? It sounds so great.

• Speaker #0

  Okay, so it's a private, safe, secure podcast network. None of the kids' last names are up there. There's no way to review them. There's no video. So kids, right now it's targeted for 6th, 7th, and 8th grade. We have the network and a curriculum which you can use in any classroom. You don't have to teach kids how to podcast. It doesn't have to be a media arts class. It can be a history class. I had one history teacher tell me that they were using it, going to use it, and the way they were going to use it is they had two kids in the class who, they're my class clowns. He said, it's tough to get them to do the assignments. I said, so here's what we do. What are you teaching? We're teaching the Trojan War right now. Those two are two soldiers inside the Trojan horse the night before, and they have to give you a five minute podcast about that. And they can joke and do whatever they want, but each one of them has to have five specific facts, different, each one, five different facts about what's happening and what happened. He goes, oh, yeah. And then, so it forced them, they get to perform. But it forced them to engage with the material. And they will never forget all the facts about the Trojan War because of the podcast they were doing of the two wacky soldiers inside the Trojan horse.

• Speaker #1

  It's so brilliant. It almost makes me want to go back to middle school so that I can use this system. Because I'm just thinking, like, that is going to stick with those kids for the rest of their lives because they've done this creative act. They've made something together. They've gotten to learn a little bit more about who they are. They've used their voices. And then they've found the joy of learning through this medium. I mean, it's just, it is so brilliant, but it's also so needed. And I can see how healing it would be for so many kids, especially in that age group where they feel misunderstood. They feel judged. Their bodies are changing. They don't understand what's happening in the world. There's bullying. Like, what a beautiful gift you're giving kids this age. And I feel like this is going to, like. become something really huge.

• Speaker #0

  You know that I certainly hope so. I would just want a lot of kids to be able to experience it because it's not just that empowers them, it gives them confidence, but also they learn how to talk about other people's work in a way in the classroom that is not, I'll call it mean spirited or anything else like that, because it's guided in the classroom. How could we make this better as opposed to Thank you. I, this stinks because, or you didn't do, or you, there's no grading involved. I mean, teachers can use it as a grading tool if they want, but the way we designed it in the curriculum's designed, it's literally to give, I call it, I'll call it compassionate and considerate reviews to people in the classroom because everybody has different levels of struggle and different levels of things. And someone who, it just might even be the topic that they're struggling with. And it's okay. Just feel, let, let everybody feel human. Let everybody feel like they're human and they're here and they're part of the community. Yeah, so we're excited. We're really excited. I'll throw out the pitch here. It's like you can get it if you want to see more about it. It's at dumptruckmedia.com. And the reason it's called Dump Truck is actually outlined in the book. There's a story in the book that explains the dump truck and why that is such a touching and personal story.

• Speaker #1

  Hmm. Well, now you've got a reason to get the book and to go to jump truck media.com. I love it. Rich, I often end with the question asking about the younger self because I feel like creativity is so often tied to our inner child. And since we're just talking about middle schoolers, and I know you got your first recording device when you were just a little guy, sixth grade, right? 11 or 12.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah.

• Speaker #1

  If that version of you... the 11 or 12 year olds was standing in the room with you the this adult version of you looking at you i mean outside of like any like natural shock that you have because be like oh my god that's me growing up don't worry about that that part is already covered at this point okay What do you think he would say to you and why?

• Speaker #0

  He would say, how did you do that without being so scared? How did you deal with people who were mean or people who didn't care? Just knowing who I was at that point and perhaps the limits. And he would also say, wow, I'm really relieved that. You, I, you kind of made it and survived. And thanks for saying nice things about me in that book.

• Speaker #1

  And what would you say to him and why?

• Speaker #0

  What I would say is, and again, you know, I know that all the conundrums about changing the past and all the rest of the stuff, all I would say is be yourself and don't be afraid to be yourself out loud every day because the world is trying to change you. Because everybody's trying to put their own story together. Make your story, create your story, live your story. Everybody else who says anything, it's all related to their story. They don't know you.

• Speaker #1

  And that's good advice for all of us adults, too. We all need to remember that every day. And I'm so excited to see everything that comes out of you continuing to live your story, to share it, to not be afraid of how it's received, but put it out into the world. because It deserves to be heard and to see how you build this business. Just really inspired by your rich. And thank you for being a great friend and creative ally all these years. And here's to 10 more.

• Speaker #0

  Yes.

• Speaker #1

  Many more to come.

• Speaker #0

  Excellent. Thank you for having me on your podcast. I appreciate that so much. And thank you for being you. I know you. So thank you for continuing to be you. Through the ups, the downs, the lefts, the rights, the slightly sideways, the slightly this way, the slightly that.

• Speaker #1

  It's been a lot of slightly sideways.

• Speaker #0

  A lot of slightly sideways. But you know what? I have been since the day we met. And we talked a little bit about that. I'm impressed by the light that shines in your being. Even though you feel like you're hiding it sometimes, it's not. You're not. You're not, it may be less bright. In other words, it's like, you know, the light is always on. It's, it's there. You can see it. You can see it. It's in your eyes. It's in your, it's the light is always on there. So thank you for sharing that with us and with the world.

• Speaker #1

  Oh, my honor, Rich. You're the best. All right. Creative cuties go unleash. Thanks for listening. And thanks to my guest, Rich Berner. If you take one thing from that conversation, let it be this. Stop waiting to feel ready to share your voice. You don't need to have absolute clarity before you start. You just need to do the thing. So whatever you've been sitting on, say it, make it, record it, put it out. You will figure it out. Your fear can protest all it wants. Your voice and your work are more important. You can connect with Rich on LinkedIn at linkedin.com slash IN slash rich dash burner. And check out his book, Not So Only Child, on Amazon. And if this episode resonated with you, share it with a fellow creative who might need it right now and make sure you're following the show so you never miss an episode. Also remember to rate and review. Really helps the show go up the algorithm. You can find us at Unleash Your Inner Creative and at Lauren LaGrasso. Unleash Your Inner Creative is executive produced and hosted by me, Lauren LaGrasso. It's edited by Blondel Garcon with music by Liz Full. I love you and I believe in you. Talk with you next week.