✨You Are Not Your Work: Creative Reinvention w/ Zak Rosen | Unleash Your Inner Creative with Lauren LoGrasso (A Creativity Podcast)

Description

How do you know when it’s time to reinvent yourself creatively? And once you do, how do you remember that through it all, who you are in the best thing about you?

This episode was recorded while podcast host and producer, Zak Rosen and I walked around Belle Isle in Detroit talking about creative reinvention, identity, and what it really means to build a life around your values.

You’ll hear the wind moving through the trees and the ice crunching beneath our feet and sheer creative vulnerability as Zak discusses how he knew it was finally time to shift a long-term project.

Zak is the host of the beloved indie podcast Weirdly Hepful and a longtime creative whose path has included multiple reinventions, pivots, and personal awakenings. Together, we explore the emotional side of creativity that rarely gets talked about, especially the danger of tying your self-worth to what you make.

We talk about:

-Why separating your identity from your work is essential for long-term creative health
-The freedom that comes from redefining success on your own terms
-Creative reinvention and how to let yourself evolve
-What it means to build a creative life instead of chasing external validation

Listen to Zak's Pod: https://weirdlyhelpful.show/

🎙️ Connect & Work with Me:
If you love this episode and want personalized support to break through creative blocks, build confidence, and finally share your work with the world, I’d love to help. As a creative coach, I work with artists, entrepreneurs, and multi-passionate creatives to unleash their inner voice and build a thriving creative life from a place of self-love. ✨ Want to work together? Email me at Lauren.LoGrasso@gmail.com or visit https://www.laurenlograsso.com/contact/ to book a free 15-minute discovery call.

Remember to subscribe/follow the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your pods. Please leave us a rating and review- it helps SO much in getting the show out there. And tell a friend about the show- podcasts are very personal and tend to be spread person to person. If this show helped you or made you smile, share the love :)

Follow the show: @unleashyourinnercreative

Follow me: @LaurenLoGrasso

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Transcription

Speaker #0
Have you ever felt the quiet nudge that it might be time to change? Not because you failed, not because something broke, but because something didn't quite feel right and you couldn't ignore that feeling anymore. Today's guest is going to speak to creative change and how to know when it's time to shift, stop, or rebrand a long-term project. Welcome to Unleash Your Inner Creative with Lauren LaGrasso. I'm Lauren LaGrasso. I'm a three-time Webby Award-winning podcast host and producer, singer-songwriter, public speaker, and creative coach. This show is meant to give you tools to love, trust, and know yourself enough to claim your birthright to creativity and pursue your wildest dreams. Creative Cutie, on today's pod, I got out of my comfort zone majorly. This podcast was recorded when I was back home in Detroit at the end of the year, walking around Belle Isle, which is a state park in Detroit that is actually an island. And I did it with podcast host, producer, and my friend, Zach Rosen. In this recording, it's pretty cool, actually. You'll hear the wind moving through the trees, loudly at times. Sorry about that. The ice crunching beneath our feet. And because we are literally moving through physical obstacles as we walked, I really feel when you listen, there's a deeper level of honesty and vulnerability in this chat. To give you a little background on Zach, he is an expert storyteller and audio professional, and the host of the beloved indie podcast, Weirdly Helpful. His work has been featured on NPR, and and he's worked with all sorts of creatives. He's a deeply thoughtful creative who knows what it means to evolve in public. In this conversation, we talk about creative reinvention, identity, and the courage it takes to untangle who you are from what you make. We talk about how he decided to rebrand his show too, which is really interesting and will be helpful to anyone who's in the middle of like, hmm, I don't really know if this thing I've been doing for a while works the way it is anymore. If that sounds like you, this episode will really be helpful. But really, it's for anybody who is trying to go forth on their creative journey with all the joy and also to realize you are not what you do. So let's get into it. Here is my incredible conversation with Zach Rosen. I am so excited to be here with you on Unleash Your Inner Creative. You got me way out of my comfort zone, Zach. We're literally walking. through Belle Isle right now which is a little it's a state park right?
Speaker #1
It's uh yeah it's technically a state park a 1,000 acre state park it's an island off off the coast of Detroit.
Speaker #0
Yeah so we're walking through this gorgeous state park in Detroit and recording in the field so uh welcome to Unleash Your Inner Creative in Belle Isle.
Speaker #1
So nice to be here on this slippery beautiful day.
Speaker #0
Yes. Zach invited me to walk on a literal sheet of paper. So we're, you know, looking down to make sure we don't die, but we're still here with you. Yeah. And I wanted to talk with you because you have recently done this rebrand on your show. It was since 2020 or before 2020?
Speaker #1
Yeah, I started the Best Advice Show in 2020.
Speaker #0
So since 2020, it had been called the Best Advice Show. And then over the past couple months, and I think it was in October, you rebranded it to be weirdly helpful.
Speaker #1
Yeah.
Speaker #0
I would love if you would talk about how you ended up deciding you wanted to do that. What were the steps to be like, something's not right here. I think I'm going to change. I'm going to change. I'm changing.
Speaker #1
I don't know when it quite started, but there was a time, I think it's been years even, where someone would ask me about my podcast. and I'd be excited to tell them about it, but I wouldn't be excited to tell them the name of it. And it didn't even occur to me until more recently that maybe that's a problem that I don't, I'm not proudly saying, yeah, it's called the Best Advice Show. It's more like, it's called the Best Advice Show. You know, it kind of like rushed through the title. And that's everyone's entry point to the show. And a certain part of it was like, I didn't have anything to lose. It's not like, you know, this show is my creative project, my passion project. I don't have... sponsors you know big enough to be like nope we're what we're doing is working pal you got to just keep doing that it's give me some best advice yeah it's just like i i make the show i edit it i it's a it's a one-person show and so i really only answer to me and i was just thinking like the word best is i think can rub some people the wrong way Because they might think that I'm saying that my show is the best. But the premise is like, I want you to share your best advice with me. And that's not clear to someone who doesn't know the show. And then the word advice, too, I found is like, can be super alienating to people because they don't think they have any.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
I think advice is like relegated to, you know, Tony Robbins and Glennon Doyle. But I like maintain like, no, no. No, we all have this stuff that we do, this kind of weird stuff that we do that just makes our lives a little bit better or a lot better or that helps us just make it through our days. And so I wanted to kind of get more precise with what is it that I'm after. And the episodes of The Best Advice Show that were my favorite were the ones that just delighted me and surprised me and that were weird.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
Like this woman called I have a hotline that people can call and leave. their advice and she called me this is five years ago it was one of the first episodes and she said like every friday after a long week of work what she likes to do is like sit back from her desk and howl like a wolf listen to this episode yeah so good and she's like owl for for loneliness or despondence or just like it's just this kind of cathartic move um and it's funny and It just feels great. And that's like the kind of thing. So I'm interested in like, what are your, what's your howl?
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
You know, at a random person. What's the weirdly helpful thing that you do that just, you know, makes you smile.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
Brings you some peace. And so that's the kind of precise thing that I'm after.
Speaker #0
I love that. So was there any, should we walk this way? Yeah. Okay. Okay. Was there any self-doubt that came up as you were like. Like, okay, I think the show is going to be really helpful. Was any part of you like, no, I can't do that. Like making up these fake creative rules for yourself?
Speaker #1
Well, I have self-doubt every day. And strangely, I didn't have any from this. This felt like true in a way that the Best Advice Show never did. And so, yeah, it's not to say I am not full of doubt, but this felt like a really kind of...
Speaker #0
true pivot for me yeah what do you attribute that to hmm that's a good question that i did what do i attribute to not having the self-doubt for yeah because if you say you have it every day like i'm assuming that sometimes you have self-doubt even when things are true so
Speaker #1
what about this was so pure that it released you from that chain of self-doubt i think it just feel like just i was talking before about how my body didn't like the feeling of saying the best advice show yeah conversely i like saying weirdly helpful like i feel like it just locates i feel like it's a self uh like a self-portrait like that's what that's my aim right i want to be helpful but i don't want to just be like regular helpful i want to be kind of goofy really helpful regular helpful yeah i love that helpful doesn't have a good ring to it yeah
Speaker #0
So what would be the takeaway for someone? Because I feel like that's a really interesting thing that you could just, part of why we feel uncomfortable and feel self-doubt is because maybe there's some little part of what we're doing or saying. It's not the whole thing, but it's a partly part of the thing that isn't actually true for us. Like, how can you be a detective in your own life, find the grain of truth and then make something make more sense? Like, what is that process?
Speaker #1
So it was... it was locating my um discomfort and dislike for the old name um mustering up enough confidence to be like maybe i should rebrand and then this is key um i have a group of best friends since kindergarten who i'm in touch with all day long on discord and so they're like my brain trust and so once i thought okay maybe i should change it i i uh ran it by them and they didn't say like you know they were encouraging yeah and so i think i think that like i didn't want to go public with it too early so they're not public they're kind of my private you know consiglieres oh gorgeous we love a consigliere yeah so it's basically what i talk about um is
Speaker #0
like building up your creative courage or microdosing courage you bring it to yourself first You admit it to yourself. Then you bring it to a small group of creatives that are your friends, that you trust, that have your best interests in mind. Like they really see you. They believe in you, but they'll be honest with you. Yep,
Speaker #1
exactly.
Speaker #0
And then once you've done the litmus test there, you start to take the steps to bring it out into the world if it is a forward facing thing.
Speaker #1
Yep. Yep. Yeah, I was like, tell my boys, talk to Shira, my wife about it, a couple other people. Talked to Jeff at the Podglomerate. And I got really positive feedback.
Speaker #0
Wow. And how does it feel now having this thing that just feels true out in the world? What is the difference when you... you tell people about it and have you seen any actual impacts from it other than how you feel well the thing about um a rebrand is that you can like market around it yeah and so like i got apple to feature me i got some newsletters to write about it i
Speaker #1
got lauren lagrasso to interview me um you know so like there's like a hook on which to pitch myself whereas before it's like you know Best advice show, 700 episodes and going strong. Like there wasn't anything new there.
Speaker #0
Right.
Speaker #1
And so if only for that, if only to just create, you know, a new hook for yourself, there's that. And I also probably unrealistically thought like, okay, once I change to Weirdly Helpful, it's all going to start coming to me, baby. you know, Squarespace is going to come knocking.
Speaker #0
They might still.
Speaker #1
They might. And the truth is there was like the honeymoon. I'm still kind of in that honeymoon phase of having just changed it. But like, it's still just me in my goddamn office trying to find, you know, people that I am interested in.
Speaker #0
Right.
Speaker #1
So the mission remains pretty similar. I am also, but I think that the other difference is I'm just scrutinizing a little more. Kind of what I want to feature. Right. Before it was any advice. And now it's got to be a little weird.
Speaker #0
Right.
Speaker #1
Yeah.
Speaker #0
Well, I love that because I think anytime we believe that, like, I don't remember the exact word. I think it's called like a salvation fantasy. Like anytime you believe like, if I do this, then I will be saved. If I do this, then I will feel good. Yes. It's typically a lie. Yeah. And so, I mean, that's something you and I talked about. How are you dealing with that part of you that... Has that belief that if square space comes knocking, you will finally ascend. You know, how are you managing that piece of yourself and holding it with like, I love this. This is my creative baby. And I'm so thrilled that I get to do it.
Speaker #1
Yeah. I still I still I'm suffering from that fallacy. I think like I just recently got to start doing host read ads. And it actually did make me happy for a little while. I'm like, oh my God, I'm doing the thing that I've been wanting to do for all these years. And so at the same time, though, we have like a health emergency in our close circle of friends now. That has just changed everything in the last week and made me a lot less precious about any of my work. And, you know. recalibrate my priorities to where they should be which is the health of the people closest to me and so that's like really where my head's at and the show is just like a fun um side thing but like the main thing is making sure my kids feel that i'm actually like staring you know, staring them in the eye and that my friend who's sick feels taken care of by us. And so I think the timing of that has changed things a bit.
Speaker #0
Yeah. Moments like that are really like a wake up call. Because I mean, I felt the same thing when my dad got sick. It was like, I don't care about anything. I just want to be with my dad. My dad, the only reason I even feel like I can pursue my dreams is because my parents believed in me and came and saw every performance growing up. There's no point without the health and well-being of your loved ones. But it's just so easy to get wrapped up in that thought process. Even once things improve, it's so easy to go back there. It's a daily practice to remind yourself.
Speaker #1
For sure.
Speaker #0
of we're trying to avoid goose poop right now one of the challenges of metro detroit is goose poop especially belle isle oh my gosh um but yeah to remind yourself that that that's what really matters and that's what you're going to be thinking about on your deathbed not like did squarespace sponsor my podcast which yeah it's so dark but it's true it's like And I think it's especially hard because I relate to you in that we both produced some really successful products and projects. And so when you have that as the litmus test of success, it's very easy to feel like you are failing or not. succeeding in the way you should because you're putting yourself up against something that had a huge budget, had like many different people working on it, had a marketing team. And it's really not fair to put your work toe to toe with something that just simply didn't have those resources. But it feels like, well, I'm still the person behind it. So why isn't it doing that? Do you struggle with that at all?
Speaker #1
I think I've come to peace a little bit more lately with this idea that, like, if I never, if the show doesn't blow up, it's okay.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
Because I've been, like, so wanting it to.
Speaker #0
Right.
Speaker #1
And have had months at a time or years where I've been, like, obsessed with the idea. Because still, like, when at my resting brain, like... before bed my show is the one that i spend the most time kind of daydreaming about right um and i just have to remember what like all the smart creative people say is like you have no control over how your thing is gonna be received no like what do you have control over like actually the the process of making it and whenever i just remember like the whole point of it is like to get to talk to people I admire and turn those into little morsels. Like, I don't think about, I'm not thinking about it when I'm, like, deep in an edit. You know, like, I'm just, like, having fun in the flow.
Speaker #0
Right.
Speaker #1
It's only, like, after I release a thing and I'm, like, waiting for people to talk about it on social media. It's so, it's so dumb.
Speaker #0
Oh, I also just think that we have such a limited, like, we, because we live in a capitalistic society, we're like, does it make money from ads? good if it does it bad worthless but like there's so many different measures of success other than that yeah and also i mean like if we are going to look at the money thing there's a lot of ways you can make money from a podcast i have nothing to do with ads like for instance i would not have a speaking career right now if i didn't have a podcast i wouldn't have a manager i wouldn't have a strategist like i met some of my best friends through my podcast i wouldn't know you without my podcast. Like there's so many measures of success that are beyond what. the traditional model would suggest. And it's unfortunate we get really like trapped in what the system has provided instead of using our own creativity to say, what are other ways I could beyond just like the creative process that I could like feel good about this, or this could be generative in my life.
Speaker #1
Absolutely. It's such an important reminder. Everything good that's happened to me professionally has been because of...
Speaker #0
one thing leading to another but the initial thing was like oh i'm really interested in this radio thing let's let me let me write some emails and see what i can get going right you follow what fuels you what makes you feel passionate and amazing things can happen it's not always the thing you thought it was going to be sometimes it's better than what you thought it was going to be like you know we talked on your podcast about acting from my experience with acting Acting broke my heart, but music healed it. And if I hadn't had my heart broken by acting, I never would have discovered music. And then I never would have discovered podcasting. And then I never would have discovered speaking and coaching. So it's like all those things came from just trying and failing, getting disappointed, and trying something else. Yep. You have to follow what feels good.
Speaker #1
Yep.
Speaker #0
I don't know.
Speaker #1
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker #0
It's hard, but it sounds like you're in a much better place than...
Speaker #1
you have been um agree with that or no yeah no i do i do because i mean the reality is my i don't have a job i which is my goal my goal isn't to have a job my goal is to just do work that i find meaningful and work with people whom i respect and love yeah and i work on a bunch of shows and everyone i work with is genuinely lovely and we're walking through the woods on a Thursday morning and I have no boss asking me where I am. Like that's the, that's the dream. This is the dream.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
This is the dream. And I have to remind myself that I'm living it right now. It's fantastic.
Speaker #0
Yeah, it's true. I heard somebody on one of the podcasts I produced the other day say, my idea of success is the ability to take my son to the pool at 1 p.m. on a Tuesday.
Speaker #1
There it is.
Speaker #0
And I,
Speaker #1
that's it.
Speaker #0
I just think, yeah, freedom is such a gift and a privilege that so many people don't have. And if you, if. that's a value of yours and you found a way to do it.
Speaker #1
Yep.
Speaker #0
That's huge.
Speaker #1
Yep.
Speaker #0
So what, I want to know, like, what are you fueled by right now from a creative perspective? And also just like, what are you fueled by and interested in and a self-development way? Because I believe in looking at creativity through the lens of self-development. What are you working on and like fueled by creatively? And what are you working on just like internally?
Speaker #1
It's this idea of circumambulation.
Speaker #0
Ooh, tell me more. I don't know this phrase.
Speaker #1
It's, well, there's, like, religious, different religions use circumambulation. So, like, it's walking around, like, a holy statue or something. So, like, Buddhists will, like, walk around a temple. In a Jewish wedding, the bride walks around the groom seven times. They're now more progressive people. They do like three and a half, three and a half. Aw. And there's this idea that I read from Carl Jung.
Speaker #0
Yes.
Speaker #1
I need to bring it up because I like to read it. And we're talking about this as you and I are circumambulating this peninsula.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
circle in the way of an island yep is that what you meant by that yeah and we're exactly um let me find it carl jung wrote i began to understand that the goal of psychic development is the self there is no linear evolution there is only a circumambulation of the self uniform development exists at most at the beginning later everything points toward the center This insight gave me stability and gradually my inner peace returned, he wrote. And at my worst, I'm thinking like, okay, I did this thing. So now that means that I should progress to the next step of the ladder. But that's not what life is. It's not this linear thing where you start out as a rookie and then end up as a master. You're just going around in circles. And the second time you're going around the circle, You've gained some insight from the first time, but it also looks a little different. And now you're closer to the center. Now you're further away from the center. And it's like this constant state of becoming rather than, you know, this, yeah, this linear path toward enlightenment or something. And so I've been trying to make a piece. I don't know if it's going to be like an audio installation or a podcast episode, but something that kind of evokes this circumambulating. So there's no like first, second, and third act, but instead it's like it has some circular form. And so I don't know what it is. I don't know, you know, and so I feel like it's just kind of mirroring my life. We get up in the morning and we're seemingly kind of doing the same things. Like I'm making my kids breakfast every day. And the days can feel like Groundhog Day, but they're actually not. We're recording this at the end of the year. Where I feel like I'm having similar thoughts to the ones that I had last year. Around divorcing my worth from my sense of self. My creative worth from my sense of self. But it's like... No, this is the process. And so, yeah, trying to just understand circumambulation and trying to actually embody it and practice it is kind of where I'm at.
Speaker #0
Yeah, that's really cool. I was actually, it's interesting you bring this up because I was going to, I recently started a sub-stack and I was about to write a sub-stack article about how healing is never over. And I really think that's one of the great points of life is that if you ever think you're going to arrive, that's actually not the point. Like the point is to continue to go on the journey and just chip away a little bit every day.
Speaker #1
Yep.
Speaker #0
And that's what all of the great spiritual texts suggest too. Like I got the idea because I'm reading this book about Mary Magdalene and the way she was removed from Christianity and that like the early version of Christianity is not what we have now. And one of the points that like Jesus shared, like via Mary Magdalene, that healing spiritual level. evolution is eternal it's not a place where you arrive because if that were the case why don't we all just ascend like what are we here for right so i love that i love what you're bringing up because i think it's something that is needed right now it's like one of those universal eternal truths that we need to be reminded of in many different ways well i think you're a wonderful human and i really appreciate your artistry and your creativity and The fact that you're willing to take a chance on yourself. And, you know, one thing I do want to ask, because, like, I'm going to be in the stage of having kids, hopefully, next year or two of my life.
Speaker #1
Yeah, I hope so for you.
Speaker #0
Thank you. So, how are you talking to your kids about making sure they know who they are is the best thing about them, not their achievements, not what they do?
Speaker #1
Well, there's, like, a good example, like, when they make, when they draw something. Like, I comment on, like, how hard they're trying rather than, like, how good it is. So I think it's, like, that. But what else? I love that question. It seems like more than anything, it's, like, putting the phone away.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
And just, like, being with them. being present with them is going to teach them presence um and that you know what they need lies within them um that sounds that's that sounds a little trite but um yeah like our best our best moments are like when we're on the bike and just like looking out at buildings or when like we're in bed before they go to sleep or when we're drawing side by side or um yeah i mean it's i think it's so simple um just just being with them is like kind of the only thing what
Speaker #0
part of your inner child has been healed by being a father my mom's a painter a really talented painter and uh she i mean she was she was amazing at cultivating like a
Speaker #1
arts and crafts studio at our house and just praising whatever we did no matter what it was but i always felt like um i'm not a visual artist um and just drawing with my kids or collaging with my kids and not not needing it to be anything like just being like i i throw i throw whatsoever
Speaker #0
stuff away after we make it that's just there would just be your house would be one big paper mache yeah exactly um and just that being okay um i
Speaker #1
think that has helped a lot um like what you were saying about it's about it's about the journey and not the process like it's just about sitting next to each other and drawing Nothing, nothing more. But also we were talking earlier before we started rolling how lucky you and I both are to have really supportive parents. Like I had some wounds, but like my inner child was celebrated. Like my mom especially was so is and was an artist raising kids. And she was a preschool teacher before she had me. Like she's like the best. And so I was really loved up.
Speaker #0
Yeah. It's a lot of times it's not your parents. It's like other people outside of them. Yeah. Yeah. Like, you know, we talked about on your pod teachers.
Speaker #1
Yep.
Speaker #0
I had other family members, not my parents that, you know, did some damage. Love, you know, they loved me, but they also had limitations. So, yeah, it's true. So I have one final thing because, I mean, I feel like we need to get some of the weirdly helpful stuff on my show, too.
Speaker #1
Okay.
Speaker #0
What is your weirdly helpful little... piece you want to share do you have anything that either somebody said to you on the show or that you have yourself the thing that i think about a lot there's there's like a kind of canon in my head of like my favorite ones are the ones that i go back to the most one
Speaker #1
of them is about um i'm trying to stand out of the wind one of them is about like how can we actually untangle our self-worth from the stuff we make in the world? Like, what's an exercise to do that? And this woman who was a very successful designer and artist. uh she actually quit that life and became a therapist and she finds that like the way for her to actually untangle those two things is just to go outside and watch birds and realize that like there is a world happening right outside our window like beyond us that has nothing to do with us um and i find like whenever i'm like getting egoic about about my work stuff it's just like Just look at the birds. They're just like flying around. They don't give a shit about you. And that's kind of great.
Speaker #0
Yeah. I love that. That's also like one of my favorite Bible verses. It says something like, you know, I take care of the birds. You think I'm not going to take care of you? That's very crass way of saying it. But it's like, it's, they're always a good reminder. Like nature is our best reminder that like we're, we're part, very small part of like a big thing and everything is doing its piece.
Speaker #1
Absolutely.
Speaker #0
Yeah. Zach, thank you for being here on Unleash. You're awesome. This is so cool. Thanks, Lauren. Getting me out of my comfort zone. Thanks for walking with me. Walking around Belle Isle, then sitting in my office.
Speaker #1
Oh my God, this is great. Thank you.
Speaker #0
Thank you so much for listening. If this conversation resonated with you, I hope you take this away. You're allowed to evolve. You're allowed to outgrow old versions of yourself. And you're allowed to change your mind about what success looks like. Your creativity is not a fixed identity. It's a living, breathing relationship. And no matter how your world shifts, pivots, or transforms, you will always be bigger and more important than what you make. If you love this episode, it would mean so much if you'd share it with a creative in your life who might need the permission to reinvent themselves right now. And go ahead and rate and review, follow on Apple Podcasts and Spotify, and leave a comment on Spotify. This really helps creatives find the show and helps it grow. And make sure to go check out Zach. You can listen to his podcast, Weirdly Helpful. Go to his website, ZachRosen.com, Zach spelled Z-A-K, and check out his Instagram page at Weirdly Helpful. I love you and I believe in you. Talk with you next week.

About Unleash Your Inner Creative with Lauren LoGrasso (A Creativity Podcast)

Unleash Your Inner Creative is a Webby Award-winning podcast designed to help you break free from self-doubt, embrace your creativity, and live an authentic, purpose-filled life. I’m Lauren LoGrasso, a multi-passionate creative, and I believe that repressed creativity is one of the root causes of unhappiness—which is why I’m here to help you unleash yours! Through a blend of inspiring interviews, solo episodes, and coaching sessions, this show explores creativity, mental health, spirituality, and self-development.

On the pod, you'll hear from incredible guests like The Artist’s Way author Julia Cameron, How I Built This host Guy Raz, brain coach Jim Kwik, and Codependent No More's Melody Beattie, as well as artists and performers like Chrisette Michele and Hannah Berner. Together, we share the tools and insights to help you rewire your mindset, overcome fear, and follow your heart’s deepest desires. Whether you’re a lifelong creative or just feeling a spark, I invite you to tune in, tap into your true potential, and unleash your inner creative!

New episodes are out every Wednesday - follow, rate and review wherever you get your podcasts :)

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About Unleash Your Inner Creative with Lauren LoGrasso (A Creativity Podcast)

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Description

How do you know when it’s time to reinvent yourself creatively? And once you do, how do you remember that through it all, who you are in the best thing about you?

You’ll hear the wind moving through the trees and the ice crunching beneath our feet and sheer creative vulnerability as Zak discusses how he knew it was finally time to shift a long-term project.

We talk about:

Listen to Zak's Pod: https://weirdlyhelpful.show/

Follow the show: @unleashyourinnercreative

Follow me: @LaurenLoGrasso

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Transcription

Speaker #0
Have you ever felt the quiet nudge that it might be time to change? Not because you failed, not because something broke, but because something didn't quite feel right and you couldn't ignore that feeling anymore. Today's guest is going to speak to creative change and how to know when it's time to shift, stop, or rebrand a long-term project. Welcome to Unleash Your Inner Creative with Lauren LaGrasso. I'm Lauren LaGrasso. I'm a three-time Webby Award-winning podcast host and producer, singer-songwriter, public speaker, and creative coach. This show is meant to give you tools to love, trust, and know yourself enough to claim your birthright to creativity and pursue your wildest dreams. Creative Cutie, on today's pod, I got out of my comfort zone majorly. This podcast was recorded when I was back home in Detroit at the end of the year, walking around Belle Isle, which is a state park in Detroit that is actually an island. And I did it with podcast host, producer, and my friend, Zach Rosen. In this recording, it's pretty cool, actually. You'll hear the wind moving through the trees, loudly at times. Sorry about that. The ice crunching beneath our feet. And because we are literally moving through physical obstacles as we walked, I really feel when you listen, there's a deeper level of honesty and vulnerability in this chat. To give you a little background on Zach, he is an expert storyteller and audio professional, and the host of the beloved indie podcast, Weirdly Helpful. His work has been featured on NPR, and and he's worked with all sorts of creatives. He's a deeply thoughtful creative who knows what it means to evolve in public. In this conversation, we talk about creative reinvention, identity, and the courage it takes to untangle who you are from what you make. We talk about how he decided to rebrand his show too, which is really interesting and will be helpful to anyone who's in the middle of like, hmm, I don't really know if this thing I've been doing for a while works the way it is anymore. If that sounds like you, this episode will really be helpful. But really, it's for anybody who is trying to go forth on their creative journey with all the joy and also to realize you are not what you do. So let's get into it. Here is my incredible conversation with Zach Rosen. I am so excited to be here with you on Unleash Your Inner Creative. You got me way out of my comfort zone, Zach. We're literally walking. through Belle Isle right now which is a little it's a state park right?
Speaker #1
It's uh yeah it's technically a state park a 1,000 acre state park it's an island off off the coast of Detroit.
Speaker #0
Yeah so we're walking through this gorgeous state park in Detroit and recording in the field so uh welcome to Unleash Your Inner Creative in Belle Isle.
Speaker #1
So nice to be here on this slippery beautiful day.
Speaker #0
Yes. Zach invited me to walk on a literal sheet of paper. So we're, you know, looking down to make sure we don't die, but we're still here with you. Yeah. And I wanted to talk with you because you have recently done this rebrand on your show. It was since 2020 or before 2020?
Speaker #1
Yeah, I started the Best Advice Show in 2020.
Speaker #0
So since 2020, it had been called the Best Advice Show. And then over the past couple months, and I think it was in October, you rebranded it to be weirdly helpful.
Speaker #1
Yeah.
Speaker #0
I would love if you would talk about how you ended up deciding you wanted to do that. What were the steps to be like, something's not right here. I think I'm going to change. I'm going to change. I'm changing.
Speaker #1
I don't know when it quite started, but there was a time, I think it's been years even, where someone would ask me about my podcast. and I'd be excited to tell them about it, but I wouldn't be excited to tell them the name of it. And it didn't even occur to me until more recently that maybe that's a problem that I don't, I'm not proudly saying, yeah, it's called the Best Advice Show. It's more like, it's called the Best Advice Show. You know, it kind of like rushed through the title. And that's everyone's entry point to the show. And a certain part of it was like, I didn't have anything to lose. It's not like, you know, this show is my creative project, my passion project. I don't have... sponsors you know big enough to be like nope we're what we're doing is working pal you got to just keep doing that it's give me some best advice yeah it's just like i i make the show i edit it i it's a it's a one-person show and so i really only answer to me and i was just thinking like the word best is i think can rub some people the wrong way Because they might think that I'm saying that my show is the best. But the premise is like, I want you to share your best advice with me. And that's not clear to someone who doesn't know the show. And then the word advice, too, I found is like, can be super alienating to people because they don't think they have any.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
I think advice is like relegated to, you know, Tony Robbins and Glennon Doyle. But I like maintain like, no, no. No, we all have this stuff that we do, this kind of weird stuff that we do that just makes our lives a little bit better or a lot better or that helps us just make it through our days. And so I wanted to kind of get more precise with what is it that I'm after. And the episodes of The Best Advice Show that were my favorite were the ones that just delighted me and surprised me and that were weird.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
Like this woman called I have a hotline that people can call and leave. their advice and she called me this is five years ago it was one of the first episodes and she said like every friday after a long week of work what she likes to do is like sit back from her desk and howl like a wolf listen to this episode yeah so good and she's like owl for for loneliness or despondence or just like it's just this kind of cathartic move um and it's funny and It just feels great. And that's like the kind of thing. So I'm interested in like, what are your, what's your howl?
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
You know, at a random person. What's the weirdly helpful thing that you do that just, you know, makes you smile.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
Brings you some peace. And so that's the kind of precise thing that I'm after.
Speaker #0
I love that. So was there any, should we walk this way? Yeah. Okay. Okay. Was there any self-doubt that came up as you were like. Like, okay, I think the show is going to be really helpful. Was any part of you like, no, I can't do that. Like making up these fake creative rules for yourself?
Speaker #1
Well, I have self-doubt every day. And strangely, I didn't have any from this. This felt like true in a way that the Best Advice Show never did. And so, yeah, it's not to say I am not full of doubt, but this felt like a really kind of...
Speaker #0
true pivot for me yeah what do you attribute that to hmm that's a good question that i did what do i attribute to not having the self-doubt for yeah because if you say you have it every day like i'm assuming that sometimes you have self-doubt even when things are true so
Speaker #1
what about this was so pure that it released you from that chain of self-doubt i think it just feel like just i was talking before about how my body didn't like the feeling of saying the best advice show yeah conversely i like saying weirdly helpful like i feel like it just locates i feel like it's a self uh like a self-portrait like that's what that's my aim right i want to be helpful but i don't want to just be like regular helpful i want to be kind of goofy really helpful regular helpful yeah i love that helpful doesn't have a good ring to it yeah
Speaker #0
So what would be the takeaway for someone? Because I feel like that's a really interesting thing that you could just, part of why we feel uncomfortable and feel self-doubt is because maybe there's some little part of what we're doing or saying. It's not the whole thing, but it's a partly part of the thing that isn't actually true for us. Like, how can you be a detective in your own life, find the grain of truth and then make something make more sense? Like, what is that process?
Speaker #1
So it was... it was locating my um discomfort and dislike for the old name um mustering up enough confidence to be like maybe i should rebrand and then this is key um i have a group of best friends since kindergarten who i'm in touch with all day long on discord and so they're like my brain trust and so once i thought okay maybe i should change it i i uh ran it by them and they didn't say like you know they were encouraging yeah and so i think i think that like i didn't want to go public with it too early so they're not public they're kind of my private you know consiglieres oh gorgeous we love a consigliere yeah so it's basically what i talk about um is
Speaker #0
like building up your creative courage or microdosing courage you bring it to yourself first You admit it to yourself. Then you bring it to a small group of creatives that are your friends, that you trust, that have your best interests in mind. Like they really see you. They believe in you, but they'll be honest with you. Yep,
Speaker #1
exactly.
Speaker #0
And then once you've done the litmus test there, you start to take the steps to bring it out into the world if it is a forward facing thing.
Speaker #1
Yep. Yep. Yeah, I was like, tell my boys, talk to Shira, my wife about it, a couple other people. Talked to Jeff at the Podglomerate. And I got really positive feedback.
Speaker #0
Wow. And how does it feel now having this thing that just feels true out in the world? What is the difference when you... you tell people about it and have you seen any actual impacts from it other than how you feel well the thing about um a rebrand is that you can like market around it yeah and so like i got apple to feature me i got some newsletters to write about it i
Speaker #1
got lauren lagrasso to interview me um you know so like there's like a hook on which to pitch myself whereas before it's like you know Best advice show, 700 episodes and going strong. Like there wasn't anything new there.
Speaker #0
Right.
Speaker #1
And so if only for that, if only to just create, you know, a new hook for yourself, there's that. And I also probably unrealistically thought like, okay, once I change to Weirdly Helpful, it's all going to start coming to me, baby. you know, Squarespace is going to come knocking.
Speaker #0
They might still.
Speaker #1
They might. And the truth is there was like the honeymoon. I'm still kind of in that honeymoon phase of having just changed it. But like, it's still just me in my goddamn office trying to find, you know, people that I am interested in.
Speaker #0
Right.
Speaker #1
So the mission remains pretty similar. I am also, but I think that the other difference is I'm just scrutinizing a little more. Kind of what I want to feature. Right. Before it was any advice. And now it's got to be a little weird.
Speaker #0
Right.
Speaker #1
Yeah.
Speaker #0
Well, I love that because I think anytime we believe that, like, I don't remember the exact word. I think it's called like a salvation fantasy. Like anytime you believe like, if I do this, then I will be saved. If I do this, then I will feel good. Yes. It's typically a lie. Yeah. And so, I mean, that's something you and I talked about. How are you dealing with that part of you that... Has that belief that if square space comes knocking, you will finally ascend. You know, how are you managing that piece of yourself and holding it with like, I love this. This is my creative baby. And I'm so thrilled that I get to do it.
Speaker #1
Yeah. I still I still I'm suffering from that fallacy. I think like I just recently got to start doing host read ads. And it actually did make me happy for a little while. I'm like, oh my God, I'm doing the thing that I've been wanting to do for all these years. And so at the same time, though, we have like a health emergency in our close circle of friends now. That has just changed everything in the last week and made me a lot less precious about any of my work. And, you know. recalibrate my priorities to where they should be which is the health of the people closest to me and so that's like really where my head's at and the show is just like a fun um side thing but like the main thing is making sure my kids feel that i'm actually like staring you know, staring them in the eye and that my friend who's sick feels taken care of by us. And so I think the timing of that has changed things a bit.
Speaker #0
Yeah. Moments like that are really like a wake up call. Because I mean, I felt the same thing when my dad got sick. It was like, I don't care about anything. I just want to be with my dad. My dad, the only reason I even feel like I can pursue my dreams is because my parents believed in me and came and saw every performance growing up. There's no point without the health and well-being of your loved ones. But it's just so easy to get wrapped up in that thought process. Even once things improve, it's so easy to go back there. It's a daily practice to remind yourself.
Speaker #1
For sure.
Speaker #0
of we're trying to avoid goose poop right now one of the challenges of metro detroit is goose poop especially belle isle oh my gosh um but yeah to remind yourself that that that's what really matters and that's what you're going to be thinking about on your deathbed not like did squarespace sponsor my podcast which yeah it's so dark but it's true it's like And I think it's especially hard because I relate to you in that we both produced some really successful products and projects. And so when you have that as the litmus test of success, it's very easy to feel like you are failing or not. succeeding in the way you should because you're putting yourself up against something that had a huge budget, had like many different people working on it, had a marketing team. And it's really not fair to put your work toe to toe with something that just simply didn't have those resources. But it feels like, well, I'm still the person behind it. So why isn't it doing that? Do you struggle with that at all?
Speaker #1
I think I've come to peace a little bit more lately with this idea that, like, if I never, if the show doesn't blow up, it's okay.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
Because I've been, like, so wanting it to.
Speaker #0
Right.
Speaker #1
And have had months at a time or years where I've been, like, obsessed with the idea. Because still, like, when at my resting brain, like... before bed my show is the one that i spend the most time kind of daydreaming about right um and i just have to remember what like all the smart creative people say is like you have no control over how your thing is gonna be received no like what do you have control over like actually the the process of making it and whenever i just remember like the whole point of it is like to get to talk to people I admire and turn those into little morsels. Like, I don't think about, I'm not thinking about it when I'm, like, deep in an edit. You know, like, I'm just, like, having fun in the flow.
Speaker #0
Right.
Speaker #1
It's only, like, after I release a thing and I'm, like, waiting for people to talk about it on social media. It's so, it's so dumb.
Speaker #0
Oh, I also just think that we have such a limited, like, we, because we live in a capitalistic society, we're like, does it make money from ads? good if it does it bad worthless but like there's so many different measures of success other than that yeah and also i mean like if we are going to look at the money thing there's a lot of ways you can make money from a podcast i have nothing to do with ads like for instance i would not have a speaking career right now if i didn't have a podcast i wouldn't have a manager i wouldn't have a strategist like i met some of my best friends through my podcast i wouldn't know you without my podcast. Like there's so many measures of success that are beyond what. the traditional model would suggest. And it's unfortunate we get really like trapped in what the system has provided instead of using our own creativity to say, what are other ways I could beyond just like the creative process that I could like feel good about this, or this could be generative in my life.
Speaker #1
Absolutely. It's such an important reminder. Everything good that's happened to me professionally has been because of...
Speaker #0
one thing leading to another but the initial thing was like oh i'm really interested in this radio thing let's let me let me write some emails and see what i can get going right you follow what fuels you what makes you feel passionate and amazing things can happen it's not always the thing you thought it was going to be sometimes it's better than what you thought it was going to be like you know we talked on your podcast about acting from my experience with acting Acting broke my heart, but music healed it. And if I hadn't had my heart broken by acting, I never would have discovered music. And then I never would have discovered podcasting. And then I never would have discovered speaking and coaching. So it's like all those things came from just trying and failing, getting disappointed, and trying something else. Yep. You have to follow what feels good.
Speaker #1
Yep.
Speaker #0
I don't know.
Speaker #1
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker #0
It's hard, but it sounds like you're in a much better place than...
Speaker #1
you have been um agree with that or no yeah no i do i do because i mean the reality is my i don't have a job i which is my goal my goal isn't to have a job my goal is to just do work that i find meaningful and work with people whom i respect and love yeah and i work on a bunch of shows and everyone i work with is genuinely lovely and we're walking through the woods on a Thursday morning and I have no boss asking me where I am. Like that's the, that's the dream. This is the dream.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
This is the dream. And I have to remind myself that I'm living it right now. It's fantastic.
Speaker #0
Yeah, it's true. I heard somebody on one of the podcasts I produced the other day say, my idea of success is the ability to take my son to the pool at 1 p.m. on a Tuesday.
Speaker #1
There it is.
Speaker #0
And I,
Speaker #1
that's it.
Speaker #0
I just think, yeah, freedom is such a gift and a privilege that so many people don't have. And if you, if. that's a value of yours and you found a way to do it.
Speaker #1
Yep.
Speaker #0
That's huge.
Speaker #1
Yep.
Speaker #0
So what, I want to know, like, what are you fueled by right now from a creative perspective? And also just like, what are you fueled by and interested in and a self-development way? Because I believe in looking at creativity through the lens of self-development. What are you working on and like fueled by creatively? And what are you working on just like internally?
Speaker #1
It's this idea of circumambulation.
Speaker #0
Ooh, tell me more. I don't know this phrase.
Speaker #1
It's, well, there's, like, religious, different religions use circumambulation. So, like, it's walking around, like, a holy statue or something. So, like, Buddhists will, like, walk around a temple. In a Jewish wedding, the bride walks around the groom seven times. They're now more progressive people. They do like three and a half, three and a half. Aw. And there's this idea that I read from Carl Jung.
Speaker #0
Yes.
Speaker #1
I need to bring it up because I like to read it. And we're talking about this as you and I are circumambulating this peninsula.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
circle in the way of an island yep is that what you meant by that yeah and we're exactly um let me find it carl jung wrote i began to understand that the goal of psychic development is the self there is no linear evolution there is only a circumambulation of the self uniform development exists at most at the beginning later everything points toward the center This insight gave me stability and gradually my inner peace returned, he wrote. And at my worst, I'm thinking like, okay, I did this thing. So now that means that I should progress to the next step of the ladder. But that's not what life is. It's not this linear thing where you start out as a rookie and then end up as a master. You're just going around in circles. And the second time you're going around the circle, You've gained some insight from the first time, but it also looks a little different. And now you're closer to the center. Now you're further away from the center. And it's like this constant state of becoming rather than, you know, this, yeah, this linear path toward enlightenment or something. And so I've been trying to make a piece. I don't know if it's going to be like an audio installation or a podcast episode, but something that kind of evokes this circumambulating. So there's no like first, second, and third act, but instead it's like it has some circular form. And so I don't know what it is. I don't know, you know, and so I feel like it's just kind of mirroring my life. We get up in the morning and we're seemingly kind of doing the same things. Like I'm making my kids breakfast every day. And the days can feel like Groundhog Day, but they're actually not. We're recording this at the end of the year. Where I feel like I'm having similar thoughts to the ones that I had last year. Around divorcing my worth from my sense of self. My creative worth from my sense of self. But it's like... No, this is the process. And so, yeah, trying to just understand circumambulation and trying to actually embody it and practice it is kind of where I'm at.
Speaker #0
Yeah, that's really cool. I was actually, it's interesting you bring this up because I was going to, I recently started a sub-stack and I was about to write a sub-stack article about how healing is never over. And I really think that's one of the great points of life is that if you ever think you're going to arrive, that's actually not the point. Like the point is to continue to go on the journey and just chip away a little bit every day.
Speaker #1
Yep.
Speaker #0
And that's what all of the great spiritual texts suggest too. Like I got the idea because I'm reading this book about Mary Magdalene and the way she was removed from Christianity and that like the early version of Christianity is not what we have now. And one of the points that like Jesus shared, like via Mary Magdalene, that healing spiritual level. evolution is eternal it's not a place where you arrive because if that were the case why don't we all just ascend like what are we here for right so i love that i love what you're bringing up because i think it's something that is needed right now it's like one of those universal eternal truths that we need to be reminded of in many different ways well i think you're a wonderful human and i really appreciate your artistry and your creativity and The fact that you're willing to take a chance on yourself. And, you know, one thing I do want to ask, because, like, I'm going to be in the stage of having kids, hopefully, next year or two of my life.
Speaker #1
Yeah, I hope so for you.
Speaker #0
Thank you. So, how are you talking to your kids about making sure they know who they are is the best thing about them, not their achievements, not what they do?
Speaker #1
Well, there's, like, a good example, like, when they make, when they draw something. Like, I comment on, like, how hard they're trying rather than, like, how good it is. So I think it's, like, that. But what else? I love that question. It seems like more than anything, it's, like, putting the phone away.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
And just, like, being with them. being present with them is going to teach them presence um and that you know what they need lies within them um that sounds that's that sounds a little trite but um yeah like our best our best moments are like when we're on the bike and just like looking out at buildings or when like we're in bed before they go to sleep or when we're drawing side by side or um yeah i mean it's i think it's so simple um just just being with them is like kind of the only thing what
Speaker #0
part of your inner child has been healed by being a father my mom's a painter a really talented painter and uh she i mean she was she was amazing at cultivating like a
Speaker #1
arts and crafts studio at our house and just praising whatever we did no matter what it was but i always felt like um i'm not a visual artist um and just drawing with my kids or collaging with my kids and not not needing it to be anything like just being like i i throw i throw whatsoever
Speaker #0
stuff away after we make it that's just there would just be your house would be one big paper mache yeah exactly um and just that being okay um i
Speaker #1
think that has helped a lot um like what you were saying about it's about it's about the journey and not the process like it's just about sitting next to each other and drawing Nothing, nothing more. But also we were talking earlier before we started rolling how lucky you and I both are to have really supportive parents. Like I had some wounds, but like my inner child was celebrated. Like my mom especially was so is and was an artist raising kids. And she was a preschool teacher before she had me. Like she's like the best. And so I was really loved up.
Speaker #0
Yeah. It's a lot of times it's not your parents. It's like other people outside of them. Yeah. Yeah. Like, you know, we talked about on your pod teachers.
Speaker #1
Yep.
Speaker #0
I had other family members, not my parents that, you know, did some damage. Love, you know, they loved me, but they also had limitations. So, yeah, it's true. So I have one final thing because, I mean, I feel like we need to get some of the weirdly helpful stuff on my show, too.
Speaker #1
Okay.
Speaker #0
What is your weirdly helpful little... piece you want to share do you have anything that either somebody said to you on the show or that you have yourself the thing that i think about a lot there's there's like a kind of canon in my head of like my favorite ones are the ones that i go back to the most one
Speaker #1
of them is about um i'm trying to stand out of the wind one of them is about like how can we actually untangle our self-worth from the stuff we make in the world? Like, what's an exercise to do that? And this woman who was a very successful designer and artist. uh she actually quit that life and became a therapist and she finds that like the way for her to actually untangle those two things is just to go outside and watch birds and realize that like there is a world happening right outside our window like beyond us that has nothing to do with us um and i find like whenever i'm like getting egoic about about my work stuff it's just like Just look at the birds. They're just like flying around. They don't give a shit about you. And that's kind of great.
Speaker #0
Yeah. I love that. That's also like one of my favorite Bible verses. It says something like, you know, I take care of the birds. You think I'm not going to take care of you? That's very crass way of saying it. But it's like, it's, they're always a good reminder. Like nature is our best reminder that like we're, we're part, very small part of like a big thing and everything is doing its piece.
Speaker #1
Absolutely.
Speaker #0
Yeah. Zach, thank you for being here on Unleash. You're awesome. This is so cool. Thanks, Lauren. Getting me out of my comfort zone. Thanks for walking with me. Walking around Belle Isle, then sitting in my office.
Speaker #1
Oh my God, this is great. Thank you.
Speaker #0
Thank you so much for listening. If this conversation resonated with you, I hope you take this away. You're allowed to evolve. You're allowed to outgrow old versions of yourself. And you're allowed to change your mind about what success looks like. Your creativity is not a fixed identity. It's a living, breathing relationship. And no matter how your world shifts, pivots, or transforms, you will always be bigger and more important than what you make. If you love this episode, it would mean so much if you'd share it with a creative in your life who might need the permission to reinvent themselves right now. And go ahead and rate and review, follow on Apple Podcasts and Spotify, and leave a comment on Spotify. This really helps creatives find the show and helps it grow. And make sure to go check out Zach. You can listen to his podcast, Weirdly Helpful. Go to his website, ZachRosen.com, Zach spelled Z-A-K, and check out his Instagram page at Weirdly Helpful. I love you and I believe in you. Talk with you next week.

About Unleash Your Inner Creative with Lauren LoGrasso (A Creativity Podcast)

New episodes are out every Wednesday - follow, rate and review wherever you get your podcasts :)

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

About Unleash Your Inner Creative with Lauren LoGrasso (A Creativity Podcast)

New episodes are out every Wednesday - follow, rate and review wherever you get your podcasts :)

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

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Description

How do you know when it’s time to reinvent yourself creatively? And once you do, how do you remember that through it all, who you are in the best thing about you?

You’ll hear the wind moving through the trees and the ice crunching beneath our feet and sheer creative vulnerability as Zak discusses how he knew it was finally time to shift a long-term project.

We talk about:

Listen to Zak's Pod: https://weirdlyhelpful.show/

Follow the show: @unleashyourinnercreative

Follow me: @LaurenLoGrasso

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Transcription

Speaker #0
Have you ever felt the quiet nudge that it might be time to change? Not because you failed, not because something broke, but because something didn't quite feel right and you couldn't ignore that feeling anymore. Today's guest is going to speak to creative change and how to know when it's time to shift, stop, or rebrand a long-term project. Welcome to Unleash Your Inner Creative with Lauren LaGrasso. I'm Lauren LaGrasso. I'm a three-time Webby Award-winning podcast host and producer, singer-songwriter, public speaker, and creative coach. This show is meant to give you tools to love, trust, and know yourself enough to claim your birthright to creativity and pursue your wildest dreams. Creative Cutie, on today's pod, I got out of my comfort zone majorly. This podcast was recorded when I was back home in Detroit at the end of the year, walking around Belle Isle, which is a state park in Detroit that is actually an island. And I did it with podcast host, producer, and my friend, Zach Rosen. In this recording, it's pretty cool, actually. You'll hear the wind moving through the trees, loudly at times. Sorry about that. The ice crunching beneath our feet. And because we are literally moving through physical obstacles as we walked, I really feel when you listen, there's a deeper level of honesty and vulnerability in this chat. To give you a little background on Zach, he is an expert storyteller and audio professional, and the host of the beloved indie podcast, Weirdly Helpful. His work has been featured on NPR, and and he's worked with all sorts of creatives. He's a deeply thoughtful creative who knows what it means to evolve in public. In this conversation, we talk about creative reinvention, identity, and the courage it takes to untangle who you are from what you make. We talk about how he decided to rebrand his show too, which is really interesting and will be helpful to anyone who's in the middle of like, hmm, I don't really know if this thing I've been doing for a while works the way it is anymore. If that sounds like you, this episode will really be helpful. But really, it's for anybody who is trying to go forth on their creative journey with all the joy and also to realize you are not what you do. So let's get into it. Here is my incredible conversation with Zach Rosen. I am so excited to be here with you on Unleash Your Inner Creative. You got me way out of my comfort zone, Zach. We're literally walking. through Belle Isle right now which is a little it's a state park right?
Speaker #1
It's uh yeah it's technically a state park a 1,000 acre state park it's an island off off the coast of Detroit.
Speaker #0
Yeah so we're walking through this gorgeous state park in Detroit and recording in the field so uh welcome to Unleash Your Inner Creative in Belle Isle.
Speaker #1
So nice to be here on this slippery beautiful day.
Speaker #0
Yes. Zach invited me to walk on a literal sheet of paper. So we're, you know, looking down to make sure we don't die, but we're still here with you. Yeah. And I wanted to talk with you because you have recently done this rebrand on your show. It was since 2020 or before 2020?
Speaker #1
Yeah, I started the Best Advice Show in 2020.
Speaker #0
So since 2020, it had been called the Best Advice Show. And then over the past couple months, and I think it was in October, you rebranded it to be weirdly helpful.
Speaker #1
Yeah.
Speaker #0
I would love if you would talk about how you ended up deciding you wanted to do that. What were the steps to be like, something's not right here. I think I'm going to change. I'm going to change. I'm changing.
Speaker #1
I don't know when it quite started, but there was a time, I think it's been years even, where someone would ask me about my podcast. and I'd be excited to tell them about it, but I wouldn't be excited to tell them the name of it. And it didn't even occur to me until more recently that maybe that's a problem that I don't, I'm not proudly saying, yeah, it's called the Best Advice Show. It's more like, it's called the Best Advice Show. You know, it kind of like rushed through the title. And that's everyone's entry point to the show. And a certain part of it was like, I didn't have anything to lose. It's not like, you know, this show is my creative project, my passion project. I don't have... sponsors you know big enough to be like nope we're what we're doing is working pal you got to just keep doing that it's give me some best advice yeah it's just like i i make the show i edit it i it's a it's a one-person show and so i really only answer to me and i was just thinking like the word best is i think can rub some people the wrong way Because they might think that I'm saying that my show is the best. But the premise is like, I want you to share your best advice with me. And that's not clear to someone who doesn't know the show. And then the word advice, too, I found is like, can be super alienating to people because they don't think they have any.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
I think advice is like relegated to, you know, Tony Robbins and Glennon Doyle. But I like maintain like, no, no. No, we all have this stuff that we do, this kind of weird stuff that we do that just makes our lives a little bit better or a lot better or that helps us just make it through our days. And so I wanted to kind of get more precise with what is it that I'm after. And the episodes of The Best Advice Show that were my favorite were the ones that just delighted me and surprised me and that were weird.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
Like this woman called I have a hotline that people can call and leave. their advice and she called me this is five years ago it was one of the first episodes and she said like every friday after a long week of work what she likes to do is like sit back from her desk and howl like a wolf listen to this episode yeah so good and she's like owl for for loneliness or despondence or just like it's just this kind of cathartic move um and it's funny and It just feels great. And that's like the kind of thing. So I'm interested in like, what are your, what's your howl?
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
You know, at a random person. What's the weirdly helpful thing that you do that just, you know, makes you smile.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
Brings you some peace. And so that's the kind of precise thing that I'm after.
Speaker #0
I love that. So was there any, should we walk this way? Yeah. Okay. Okay. Was there any self-doubt that came up as you were like. Like, okay, I think the show is going to be really helpful. Was any part of you like, no, I can't do that. Like making up these fake creative rules for yourself?
Speaker #1
Well, I have self-doubt every day. And strangely, I didn't have any from this. This felt like true in a way that the Best Advice Show never did. And so, yeah, it's not to say I am not full of doubt, but this felt like a really kind of...
Speaker #0
true pivot for me yeah what do you attribute that to hmm that's a good question that i did what do i attribute to not having the self-doubt for yeah because if you say you have it every day like i'm assuming that sometimes you have self-doubt even when things are true so
Speaker #1
what about this was so pure that it released you from that chain of self-doubt i think it just feel like just i was talking before about how my body didn't like the feeling of saying the best advice show yeah conversely i like saying weirdly helpful like i feel like it just locates i feel like it's a self uh like a self-portrait like that's what that's my aim right i want to be helpful but i don't want to just be like regular helpful i want to be kind of goofy really helpful regular helpful yeah i love that helpful doesn't have a good ring to it yeah
Speaker #0
So what would be the takeaway for someone? Because I feel like that's a really interesting thing that you could just, part of why we feel uncomfortable and feel self-doubt is because maybe there's some little part of what we're doing or saying. It's not the whole thing, but it's a partly part of the thing that isn't actually true for us. Like, how can you be a detective in your own life, find the grain of truth and then make something make more sense? Like, what is that process?
Speaker #1
So it was... it was locating my um discomfort and dislike for the old name um mustering up enough confidence to be like maybe i should rebrand and then this is key um i have a group of best friends since kindergarten who i'm in touch with all day long on discord and so they're like my brain trust and so once i thought okay maybe i should change it i i uh ran it by them and they didn't say like you know they were encouraging yeah and so i think i think that like i didn't want to go public with it too early so they're not public they're kind of my private you know consiglieres oh gorgeous we love a consigliere yeah so it's basically what i talk about um is
Speaker #0
like building up your creative courage or microdosing courage you bring it to yourself first You admit it to yourself. Then you bring it to a small group of creatives that are your friends, that you trust, that have your best interests in mind. Like they really see you. They believe in you, but they'll be honest with you. Yep,
Speaker #1
exactly.
Speaker #0
And then once you've done the litmus test there, you start to take the steps to bring it out into the world if it is a forward facing thing.
Speaker #1
Yep. Yep. Yeah, I was like, tell my boys, talk to Shira, my wife about it, a couple other people. Talked to Jeff at the Podglomerate. And I got really positive feedback.
Speaker #0
Wow. And how does it feel now having this thing that just feels true out in the world? What is the difference when you... you tell people about it and have you seen any actual impacts from it other than how you feel well the thing about um a rebrand is that you can like market around it yeah and so like i got apple to feature me i got some newsletters to write about it i
Speaker #1
got lauren lagrasso to interview me um you know so like there's like a hook on which to pitch myself whereas before it's like you know Best advice show, 700 episodes and going strong. Like there wasn't anything new there.
Speaker #0
Right.
Speaker #1
And so if only for that, if only to just create, you know, a new hook for yourself, there's that. And I also probably unrealistically thought like, okay, once I change to Weirdly Helpful, it's all going to start coming to me, baby. you know, Squarespace is going to come knocking.
Speaker #0
They might still.
Speaker #1
They might. And the truth is there was like the honeymoon. I'm still kind of in that honeymoon phase of having just changed it. But like, it's still just me in my goddamn office trying to find, you know, people that I am interested in.
Speaker #0
Right.
Speaker #1
So the mission remains pretty similar. I am also, but I think that the other difference is I'm just scrutinizing a little more. Kind of what I want to feature. Right. Before it was any advice. And now it's got to be a little weird.
Speaker #0
Right.
Speaker #1
Yeah.
Speaker #0
Well, I love that because I think anytime we believe that, like, I don't remember the exact word. I think it's called like a salvation fantasy. Like anytime you believe like, if I do this, then I will be saved. If I do this, then I will feel good. Yes. It's typically a lie. Yeah. And so, I mean, that's something you and I talked about. How are you dealing with that part of you that... Has that belief that if square space comes knocking, you will finally ascend. You know, how are you managing that piece of yourself and holding it with like, I love this. This is my creative baby. And I'm so thrilled that I get to do it.
Speaker #1
Yeah. I still I still I'm suffering from that fallacy. I think like I just recently got to start doing host read ads. And it actually did make me happy for a little while. I'm like, oh my God, I'm doing the thing that I've been wanting to do for all these years. And so at the same time, though, we have like a health emergency in our close circle of friends now. That has just changed everything in the last week and made me a lot less precious about any of my work. And, you know. recalibrate my priorities to where they should be which is the health of the people closest to me and so that's like really where my head's at and the show is just like a fun um side thing but like the main thing is making sure my kids feel that i'm actually like staring you know, staring them in the eye and that my friend who's sick feels taken care of by us. And so I think the timing of that has changed things a bit.
Speaker #0
Yeah. Moments like that are really like a wake up call. Because I mean, I felt the same thing when my dad got sick. It was like, I don't care about anything. I just want to be with my dad. My dad, the only reason I even feel like I can pursue my dreams is because my parents believed in me and came and saw every performance growing up. There's no point without the health and well-being of your loved ones. But it's just so easy to get wrapped up in that thought process. Even once things improve, it's so easy to go back there. It's a daily practice to remind yourself.
Speaker #1
For sure.
Speaker #0
of we're trying to avoid goose poop right now one of the challenges of metro detroit is goose poop especially belle isle oh my gosh um but yeah to remind yourself that that that's what really matters and that's what you're going to be thinking about on your deathbed not like did squarespace sponsor my podcast which yeah it's so dark but it's true it's like And I think it's especially hard because I relate to you in that we both produced some really successful products and projects. And so when you have that as the litmus test of success, it's very easy to feel like you are failing or not. succeeding in the way you should because you're putting yourself up against something that had a huge budget, had like many different people working on it, had a marketing team. And it's really not fair to put your work toe to toe with something that just simply didn't have those resources. But it feels like, well, I'm still the person behind it. So why isn't it doing that? Do you struggle with that at all?
Speaker #1
I think I've come to peace a little bit more lately with this idea that, like, if I never, if the show doesn't blow up, it's okay.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
Because I've been, like, so wanting it to.
Speaker #0
Right.
Speaker #1
And have had months at a time or years where I've been, like, obsessed with the idea. Because still, like, when at my resting brain, like... before bed my show is the one that i spend the most time kind of daydreaming about right um and i just have to remember what like all the smart creative people say is like you have no control over how your thing is gonna be received no like what do you have control over like actually the the process of making it and whenever i just remember like the whole point of it is like to get to talk to people I admire and turn those into little morsels. Like, I don't think about, I'm not thinking about it when I'm, like, deep in an edit. You know, like, I'm just, like, having fun in the flow.
Speaker #0
Right.
Speaker #1
It's only, like, after I release a thing and I'm, like, waiting for people to talk about it on social media. It's so, it's so dumb.
Speaker #0
Oh, I also just think that we have such a limited, like, we, because we live in a capitalistic society, we're like, does it make money from ads? good if it does it bad worthless but like there's so many different measures of success other than that yeah and also i mean like if we are going to look at the money thing there's a lot of ways you can make money from a podcast i have nothing to do with ads like for instance i would not have a speaking career right now if i didn't have a podcast i wouldn't have a manager i wouldn't have a strategist like i met some of my best friends through my podcast i wouldn't know you without my podcast. Like there's so many measures of success that are beyond what. the traditional model would suggest. And it's unfortunate we get really like trapped in what the system has provided instead of using our own creativity to say, what are other ways I could beyond just like the creative process that I could like feel good about this, or this could be generative in my life.
Speaker #1
Absolutely. It's such an important reminder. Everything good that's happened to me professionally has been because of...
Speaker #0
one thing leading to another but the initial thing was like oh i'm really interested in this radio thing let's let me let me write some emails and see what i can get going right you follow what fuels you what makes you feel passionate and amazing things can happen it's not always the thing you thought it was going to be sometimes it's better than what you thought it was going to be like you know we talked on your podcast about acting from my experience with acting Acting broke my heart, but music healed it. And if I hadn't had my heart broken by acting, I never would have discovered music. And then I never would have discovered podcasting. And then I never would have discovered speaking and coaching. So it's like all those things came from just trying and failing, getting disappointed, and trying something else. Yep. You have to follow what feels good.
Speaker #1
Yep.
Speaker #0
I don't know.
Speaker #1
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker #0
It's hard, but it sounds like you're in a much better place than...
Speaker #1
you have been um agree with that or no yeah no i do i do because i mean the reality is my i don't have a job i which is my goal my goal isn't to have a job my goal is to just do work that i find meaningful and work with people whom i respect and love yeah and i work on a bunch of shows and everyone i work with is genuinely lovely and we're walking through the woods on a Thursday morning and I have no boss asking me where I am. Like that's the, that's the dream. This is the dream.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
This is the dream. And I have to remind myself that I'm living it right now. It's fantastic.
Speaker #0
Yeah, it's true. I heard somebody on one of the podcasts I produced the other day say, my idea of success is the ability to take my son to the pool at 1 p.m. on a Tuesday.
Speaker #1
There it is.
Speaker #0
And I,
Speaker #1
that's it.
Speaker #0
I just think, yeah, freedom is such a gift and a privilege that so many people don't have. And if you, if. that's a value of yours and you found a way to do it.
Speaker #1
Yep.
Speaker #0
That's huge.
Speaker #1
Yep.
Speaker #0
So what, I want to know, like, what are you fueled by right now from a creative perspective? And also just like, what are you fueled by and interested in and a self-development way? Because I believe in looking at creativity through the lens of self-development. What are you working on and like fueled by creatively? And what are you working on just like internally?
Speaker #1
It's this idea of circumambulation.
Speaker #0
Ooh, tell me more. I don't know this phrase.
Speaker #1
It's, well, there's, like, religious, different religions use circumambulation. So, like, it's walking around, like, a holy statue or something. So, like, Buddhists will, like, walk around a temple. In a Jewish wedding, the bride walks around the groom seven times. They're now more progressive people. They do like three and a half, three and a half. Aw. And there's this idea that I read from Carl Jung.
Speaker #0
Yes.
Speaker #1
I need to bring it up because I like to read it. And we're talking about this as you and I are circumambulating this peninsula.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
circle in the way of an island yep is that what you meant by that yeah and we're exactly um let me find it carl jung wrote i began to understand that the goal of psychic development is the self there is no linear evolution there is only a circumambulation of the self uniform development exists at most at the beginning later everything points toward the center This insight gave me stability and gradually my inner peace returned, he wrote. And at my worst, I'm thinking like, okay, I did this thing. So now that means that I should progress to the next step of the ladder. But that's not what life is. It's not this linear thing where you start out as a rookie and then end up as a master. You're just going around in circles. And the second time you're going around the circle, You've gained some insight from the first time, but it also looks a little different. And now you're closer to the center. Now you're further away from the center. And it's like this constant state of becoming rather than, you know, this, yeah, this linear path toward enlightenment or something. And so I've been trying to make a piece. I don't know if it's going to be like an audio installation or a podcast episode, but something that kind of evokes this circumambulating. So there's no like first, second, and third act, but instead it's like it has some circular form. And so I don't know what it is. I don't know, you know, and so I feel like it's just kind of mirroring my life. We get up in the morning and we're seemingly kind of doing the same things. Like I'm making my kids breakfast every day. And the days can feel like Groundhog Day, but they're actually not. We're recording this at the end of the year. Where I feel like I'm having similar thoughts to the ones that I had last year. Around divorcing my worth from my sense of self. My creative worth from my sense of self. But it's like... No, this is the process. And so, yeah, trying to just understand circumambulation and trying to actually embody it and practice it is kind of where I'm at.
Speaker #0
Yeah, that's really cool. I was actually, it's interesting you bring this up because I was going to, I recently started a sub-stack and I was about to write a sub-stack article about how healing is never over. And I really think that's one of the great points of life is that if you ever think you're going to arrive, that's actually not the point. Like the point is to continue to go on the journey and just chip away a little bit every day.
Speaker #1
Yep.
Speaker #0
And that's what all of the great spiritual texts suggest too. Like I got the idea because I'm reading this book about Mary Magdalene and the way she was removed from Christianity and that like the early version of Christianity is not what we have now. And one of the points that like Jesus shared, like via Mary Magdalene, that healing spiritual level. evolution is eternal it's not a place where you arrive because if that were the case why don't we all just ascend like what are we here for right so i love that i love what you're bringing up because i think it's something that is needed right now it's like one of those universal eternal truths that we need to be reminded of in many different ways well i think you're a wonderful human and i really appreciate your artistry and your creativity and The fact that you're willing to take a chance on yourself. And, you know, one thing I do want to ask, because, like, I'm going to be in the stage of having kids, hopefully, next year or two of my life.
Speaker #1
Yeah, I hope so for you.
Speaker #0
Thank you. So, how are you talking to your kids about making sure they know who they are is the best thing about them, not their achievements, not what they do?
Speaker #1
Well, there's, like, a good example, like, when they make, when they draw something. Like, I comment on, like, how hard they're trying rather than, like, how good it is. So I think it's, like, that. But what else? I love that question. It seems like more than anything, it's, like, putting the phone away.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
And just, like, being with them. being present with them is going to teach them presence um and that you know what they need lies within them um that sounds that's that sounds a little trite but um yeah like our best our best moments are like when we're on the bike and just like looking out at buildings or when like we're in bed before they go to sleep or when we're drawing side by side or um yeah i mean it's i think it's so simple um just just being with them is like kind of the only thing what
Speaker #0
part of your inner child has been healed by being a father my mom's a painter a really talented painter and uh she i mean she was she was amazing at cultivating like a
Speaker #1
arts and crafts studio at our house and just praising whatever we did no matter what it was but i always felt like um i'm not a visual artist um and just drawing with my kids or collaging with my kids and not not needing it to be anything like just being like i i throw i throw whatsoever
Speaker #0
stuff away after we make it that's just there would just be your house would be one big paper mache yeah exactly um and just that being okay um i
Speaker #1
think that has helped a lot um like what you were saying about it's about it's about the journey and not the process like it's just about sitting next to each other and drawing Nothing, nothing more. But also we were talking earlier before we started rolling how lucky you and I both are to have really supportive parents. Like I had some wounds, but like my inner child was celebrated. Like my mom especially was so is and was an artist raising kids. And she was a preschool teacher before she had me. Like she's like the best. And so I was really loved up.
Speaker #0
Yeah. It's a lot of times it's not your parents. It's like other people outside of them. Yeah. Yeah. Like, you know, we talked about on your pod teachers.
Speaker #1
Yep.
Speaker #0
I had other family members, not my parents that, you know, did some damage. Love, you know, they loved me, but they also had limitations. So, yeah, it's true. So I have one final thing because, I mean, I feel like we need to get some of the weirdly helpful stuff on my show, too.
Speaker #1
Okay.
Speaker #0
What is your weirdly helpful little... piece you want to share do you have anything that either somebody said to you on the show or that you have yourself the thing that i think about a lot there's there's like a kind of canon in my head of like my favorite ones are the ones that i go back to the most one
Speaker #1
of them is about um i'm trying to stand out of the wind one of them is about like how can we actually untangle our self-worth from the stuff we make in the world? Like, what's an exercise to do that? And this woman who was a very successful designer and artist. uh she actually quit that life and became a therapist and she finds that like the way for her to actually untangle those two things is just to go outside and watch birds and realize that like there is a world happening right outside our window like beyond us that has nothing to do with us um and i find like whenever i'm like getting egoic about about my work stuff it's just like Just look at the birds. They're just like flying around. They don't give a shit about you. And that's kind of great.
Speaker #0
Yeah. I love that. That's also like one of my favorite Bible verses. It says something like, you know, I take care of the birds. You think I'm not going to take care of you? That's very crass way of saying it. But it's like, it's, they're always a good reminder. Like nature is our best reminder that like we're, we're part, very small part of like a big thing and everything is doing its piece.
Speaker #1
Absolutely.
Speaker #0
Yeah. Zach, thank you for being here on Unleash. You're awesome. This is so cool. Thanks, Lauren. Getting me out of my comfort zone. Thanks for walking with me. Walking around Belle Isle, then sitting in my office.
Speaker #1
Oh my God, this is great. Thank you.
Speaker #0
Thank you so much for listening. If this conversation resonated with you, I hope you take this away. You're allowed to evolve. You're allowed to outgrow old versions of yourself. And you're allowed to change your mind about what success looks like. Your creativity is not a fixed identity. It's a living, breathing relationship. And no matter how your world shifts, pivots, or transforms, you will always be bigger and more important than what you make. If you love this episode, it would mean so much if you'd share it with a creative in your life who might need the permission to reinvent themselves right now. And go ahead and rate and review, follow on Apple Podcasts and Spotify, and leave a comment on Spotify. This really helps creatives find the show and helps it grow. And make sure to go check out Zach. You can listen to his podcast, Weirdly Helpful. Go to his website, ZachRosen.com, Zach spelled Z-A-K, and check out his Instagram page at Weirdly Helpful. I love you and I believe in you. Talk with you next week.

About Unleash Your Inner Creative with Lauren LoGrasso (A Creativity Podcast)

New episodes are out every Wednesday - follow, rate and review wherever you get your podcasts :)

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

About Unleash Your Inner Creative with Lauren LoGrasso (A Creativity Podcast)

New episodes are out every Wednesday - follow, rate and review wherever you get your podcasts :)

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Description

How do you know when it’s time to reinvent yourself creatively? And once you do, how do you remember that through it all, who you are in the best thing about you?

You’ll hear the wind moving through the trees and the ice crunching beneath our feet and sheer creative vulnerability as Zak discusses how he knew it was finally time to shift a long-term project.

We talk about:

Listen to Zak's Pod: https://weirdlyhelpful.show/

Follow the show: @unleashyourinnercreative

Follow me: @LaurenLoGrasso

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Transcription

Speaker #0
Have you ever felt the quiet nudge that it might be time to change? Not because you failed, not because something broke, but because something didn't quite feel right and you couldn't ignore that feeling anymore. Today's guest is going to speak to creative change and how to know when it's time to shift, stop, or rebrand a long-term project. Welcome to Unleash Your Inner Creative with Lauren LaGrasso. I'm Lauren LaGrasso. I'm a three-time Webby Award-winning podcast host and producer, singer-songwriter, public speaker, and creative coach. This show is meant to give you tools to love, trust, and know yourself enough to claim your birthright to creativity and pursue your wildest dreams. Creative Cutie, on today's pod, I got out of my comfort zone majorly. This podcast was recorded when I was back home in Detroit at the end of the year, walking around Belle Isle, which is a state park in Detroit that is actually an island. And I did it with podcast host, producer, and my friend, Zach Rosen. In this recording, it's pretty cool, actually. You'll hear the wind moving through the trees, loudly at times. Sorry about that. The ice crunching beneath our feet. And because we are literally moving through physical obstacles as we walked, I really feel when you listen, there's a deeper level of honesty and vulnerability in this chat. To give you a little background on Zach, he is an expert storyteller and audio professional, and the host of the beloved indie podcast, Weirdly Helpful. His work has been featured on NPR, and and he's worked with all sorts of creatives. He's a deeply thoughtful creative who knows what it means to evolve in public. In this conversation, we talk about creative reinvention, identity, and the courage it takes to untangle who you are from what you make. We talk about how he decided to rebrand his show too, which is really interesting and will be helpful to anyone who's in the middle of like, hmm, I don't really know if this thing I've been doing for a while works the way it is anymore. If that sounds like you, this episode will really be helpful. But really, it's for anybody who is trying to go forth on their creative journey with all the joy and also to realize you are not what you do. So let's get into it. Here is my incredible conversation with Zach Rosen. I am so excited to be here with you on Unleash Your Inner Creative. You got me way out of my comfort zone, Zach. We're literally walking. through Belle Isle right now which is a little it's a state park right?
Speaker #1
It's uh yeah it's technically a state park a 1,000 acre state park it's an island off off the coast of Detroit.
Speaker #0
Yeah so we're walking through this gorgeous state park in Detroit and recording in the field so uh welcome to Unleash Your Inner Creative in Belle Isle.
Speaker #1
So nice to be here on this slippery beautiful day.
Speaker #0
Yes. Zach invited me to walk on a literal sheet of paper. So we're, you know, looking down to make sure we don't die, but we're still here with you. Yeah. And I wanted to talk with you because you have recently done this rebrand on your show. It was since 2020 or before 2020?
Speaker #1
Yeah, I started the Best Advice Show in 2020.
Speaker #0
So since 2020, it had been called the Best Advice Show. And then over the past couple months, and I think it was in October, you rebranded it to be weirdly helpful.
Speaker #1
Yeah.
Speaker #0
I would love if you would talk about how you ended up deciding you wanted to do that. What were the steps to be like, something's not right here. I think I'm going to change. I'm going to change. I'm changing.
Speaker #1
I don't know when it quite started, but there was a time, I think it's been years even, where someone would ask me about my podcast. and I'd be excited to tell them about it, but I wouldn't be excited to tell them the name of it. And it didn't even occur to me until more recently that maybe that's a problem that I don't, I'm not proudly saying, yeah, it's called the Best Advice Show. It's more like, it's called the Best Advice Show. You know, it kind of like rushed through the title. And that's everyone's entry point to the show. And a certain part of it was like, I didn't have anything to lose. It's not like, you know, this show is my creative project, my passion project. I don't have... sponsors you know big enough to be like nope we're what we're doing is working pal you got to just keep doing that it's give me some best advice yeah it's just like i i make the show i edit it i it's a it's a one-person show and so i really only answer to me and i was just thinking like the word best is i think can rub some people the wrong way Because they might think that I'm saying that my show is the best. But the premise is like, I want you to share your best advice with me. And that's not clear to someone who doesn't know the show. And then the word advice, too, I found is like, can be super alienating to people because they don't think they have any.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
I think advice is like relegated to, you know, Tony Robbins and Glennon Doyle. But I like maintain like, no, no. No, we all have this stuff that we do, this kind of weird stuff that we do that just makes our lives a little bit better or a lot better or that helps us just make it through our days. And so I wanted to kind of get more precise with what is it that I'm after. And the episodes of The Best Advice Show that were my favorite were the ones that just delighted me and surprised me and that were weird.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
Like this woman called I have a hotline that people can call and leave. their advice and she called me this is five years ago it was one of the first episodes and she said like every friday after a long week of work what she likes to do is like sit back from her desk and howl like a wolf listen to this episode yeah so good and she's like owl for for loneliness or despondence or just like it's just this kind of cathartic move um and it's funny and It just feels great. And that's like the kind of thing. So I'm interested in like, what are your, what's your howl?
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
You know, at a random person. What's the weirdly helpful thing that you do that just, you know, makes you smile.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
Brings you some peace. And so that's the kind of precise thing that I'm after.
Speaker #0
I love that. So was there any, should we walk this way? Yeah. Okay. Okay. Was there any self-doubt that came up as you were like. Like, okay, I think the show is going to be really helpful. Was any part of you like, no, I can't do that. Like making up these fake creative rules for yourself?
Speaker #1
Well, I have self-doubt every day. And strangely, I didn't have any from this. This felt like true in a way that the Best Advice Show never did. And so, yeah, it's not to say I am not full of doubt, but this felt like a really kind of...
Speaker #0
true pivot for me yeah what do you attribute that to hmm that's a good question that i did what do i attribute to not having the self-doubt for yeah because if you say you have it every day like i'm assuming that sometimes you have self-doubt even when things are true so
Speaker #1
what about this was so pure that it released you from that chain of self-doubt i think it just feel like just i was talking before about how my body didn't like the feeling of saying the best advice show yeah conversely i like saying weirdly helpful like i feel like it just locates i feel like it's a self uh like a self-portrait like that's what that's my aim right i want to be helpful but i don't want to just be like regular helpful i want to be kind of goofy really helpful regular helpful yeah i love that helpful doesn't have a good ring to it yeah
Speaker #0
So what would be the takeaway for someone? Because I feel like that's a really interesting thing that you could just, part of why we feel uncomfortable and feel self-doubt is because maybe there's some little part of what we're doing or saying. It's not the whole thing, but it's a partly part of the thing that isn't actually true for us. Like, how can you be a detective in your own life, find the grain of truth and then make something make more sense? Like, what is that process?
Speaker #1
So it was... it was locating my um discomfort and dislike for the old name um mustering up enough confidence to be like maybe i should rebrand and then this is key um i have a group of best friends since kindergarten who i'm in touch with all day long on discord and so they're like my brain trust and so once i thought okay maybe i should change it i i uh ran it by them and they didn't say like you know they were encouraging yeah and so i think i think that like i didn't want to go public with it too early so they're not public they're kind of my private you know consiglieres oh gorgeous we love a consigliere yeah so it's basically what i talk about um is
Speaker #0
like building up your creative courage or microdosing courage you bring it to yourself first You admit it to yourself. Then you bring it to a small group of creatives that are your friends, that you trust, that have your best interests in mind. Like they really see you. They believe in you, but they'll be honest with you. Yep,
Speaker #1
exactly.
Speaker #0
And then once you've done the litmus test there, you start to take the steps to bring it out into the world if it is a forward facing thing.
Speaker #1
Yep. Yep. Yeah, I was like, tell my boys, talk to Shira, my wife about it, a couple other people. Talked to Jeff at the Podglomerate. And I got really positive feedback.
Speaker #0
Wow. And how does it feel now having this thing that just feels true out in the world? What is the difference when you... you tell people about it and have you seen any actual impacts from it other than how you feel well the thing about um a rebrand is that you can like market around it yeah and so like i got apple to feature me i got some newsletters to write about it i
Speaker #1
got lauren lagrasso to interview me um you know so like there's like a hook on which to pitch myself whereas before it's like you know Best advice show, 700 episodes and going strong. Like there wasn't anything new there.
Speaker #0
Right.
Speaker #1
And so if only for that, if only to just create, you know, a new hook for yourself, there's that. And I also probably unrealistically thought like, okay, once I change to Weirdly Helpful, it's all going to start coming to me, baby. you know, Squarespace is going to come knocking.
Speaker #0
They might still.
Speaker #1
They might. And the truth is there was like the honeymoon. I'm still kind of in that honeymoon phase of having just changed it. But like, it's still just me in my goddamn office trying to find, you know, people that I am interested in.
Speaker #0
Right.
Speaker #1
So the mission remains pretty similar. I am also, but I think that the other difference is I'm just scrutinizing a little more. Kind of what I want to feature. Right. Before it was any advice. And now it's got to be a little weird.
Speaker #0
Right.
Speaker #1
Yeah.
Speaker #0
Well, I love that because I think anytime we believe that, like, I don't remember the exact word. I think it's called like a salvation fantasy. Like anytime you believe like, if I do this, then I will be saved. If I do this, then I will feel good. Yes. It's typically a lie. Yeah. And so, I mean, that's something you and I talked about. How are you dealing with that part of you that... Has that belief that if square space comes knocking, you will finally ascend. You know, how are you managing that piece of yourself and holding it with like, I love this. This is my creative baby. And I'm so thrilled that I get to do it.
Speaker #1
Yeah. I still I still I'm suffering from that fallacy. I think like I just recently got to start doing host read ads. And it actually did make me happy for a little while. I'm like, oh my God, I'm doing the thing that I've been wanting to do for all these years. And so at the same time, though, we have like a health emergency in our close circle of friends now. That has just changed everything in the last week and made me a lot less precious about any of my work. And, you know. recalibrate my priorities to where they should be which is the health of the people closest to me and so that's like really where my head's at and the show is just like a fun um side thing but like the main thing is making sure my kids feel that i'm actually like staring you know, staring them in the eye and that my friend who's sick feels taken care of by us. And so I think the timing of that has changed things a bit.
Speaker #0
Yeah. Moments like that are really like a wake up call. Because I mean, I felt the same thing when my dad got sick. It was like, I don't care about anything. I just want to be with my dad. My dad, the only reason I even feel like I can pursue my dreams is because my parents believed in me and came and saw every performance growing up. There's no point without the health and well-being of your loved ones. But it's just so easy to get wrapped up in that thought process. Even once things improve, it's so easy to go back there. It's a daily practice to remind yourself.
Speaker #1
For sure.
Speaker #0
of we're trying to avoid goose poop right now one of the challenges of metro detroit is goose poop especially belle isle oh my gosh um but yeah to remind yourself that that that's what really matters and that's what you're going to be thinking about on your deathbed not like did squarespace sponsor my podcast which yeah it's so dark but it's true it's like And I think it's especially hard because I relate to you in that we both produced some really successful products and projects. And so when you have that as the litmus test of success, it's very easy to feel like you are failing or not. succeeding in the way you should because you're putting yourself up against something that had a huge budget, had like many different people working on it, had a marketing team. And it's really not fair to put your work toe to toe with something that just simply didn't have those resources. But it feels like, well, I'm still the person behind it. So why isn't it doing that? Do you struggle with that at all?
Speaker #1
I think I've come to peace a little bit more lately with this idea that, like, if I never, if the show doesn't blow up, it's okay.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
Because I've been, like, so wanting it to.
Speaker #0
Right.
Speaker #1
And have had months at a time or years where I've been, like, obsessed with the idea. Because still, like, when at my resting brain, like... before bed my show is the one that i spend the most time kind of daydreaming about right um and i just have to remember what like all the smart creative people say is like you have no control over how your thing is gonna be received no like what do you have control over like actually the the process of making it and whenever i just remember like the whole point of it is like to get to talk to people I admire and turn those into little morsels. Like, I don't think about, I'm not thinking about it when I'm, like, deep in an edit. You know, like, I'm just, like, having fun in the flow.
Speaker #0
Right.
Speaker #1
It's only, like, after I release a thing and I'm, like, waiting for people to talk about it on social media. It's so, it's so dumb.
Speaker #0
Oh, I also just think that we have such a limited, like, we, because we live in a capitalistic society, we're like, does it make money from ads? good if it does it bad worthless but like there's so many different measures of success other than that yeah and also i mean like if we are going to look at the money thing there's a lot of ways you can make money from a podcast i have nothing to do with ads like for instance i would not have a speaking career right now if i didn't have a podcast i wouldn't have a manager i wouldn't have a strategist like i met some of my best friends through my podcast i wouldn't know you without my podcast. Like there's so many measures of success that are beyond what. the traditional model would suggest. And it's unfortunate we get really like trapped in what the system has provided instead of using our own creativity to say, what are other ways I could beyond just like the creative process that I could like feel good about this, or this could be generative in my life.
Speaker #1
Absolutely. It's such an important reminder. Everything good that's happened to me professionally has been because of...
Speaker #0
one thing leading to another but the initial thing was like oh i'm really interested in this radio thing let's let me let me write some emails and see what i can get going right you follow what fuels you what makes you feel passionate and amazing things can happen it's not always the thing you thought it was going to be sometimes it's better than what you thought it was going to be like you know we talked on your podcast about acting from my experience with acting Acting broke my heart, but music healed it. And if I hadn't had my heart broken by acting, I never would have discovered music. And then I never would have discovered podcasting. And then I never would have discovered speaking and coaching. So it's like all those things came from just trying and failing, getting disappointed, and trying something else. Yep. You have to follow what feels good.
Speaker #1
Yep.
Speaker #0
I don't know.
Speaker #1
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker #0
It's hard, but it sounds like you're in a much better place than...
Speaker #1
you have been um agree with that or no yeah no i do i do because i mean the reality is my i don't have a job i which is my goal my goal isn't to have a job my goal is to just do work that i find meaningful and work with people whom i respect and love yeah and i work on a bunch of shows and everyone i work with is genuinely lovely and we're walking through the woods on a Thursday morning and I have no boss asking me where I am. Like that's the, that's the dream. This is the dream.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
This is the dream. And I have to remind myself that I'm living it right now. It's fantastic.
Speaker #0
Yeah, it's true. I heard somebody on one of the podcasts I produced the other day say, my idea of success is the ability to take my son to the pool at 1 p.m. on a Tuesday.
Speaker #1
There it is.
Speaker #0
And I,
Speaker #1
that's it.
Speaker #0
I just think, yeah, freedom is such a gift and a privilege that so many people don't have. And if you, if. that's a value of yours and you found a way to do it.
Speaker #1
Yep.
Speaker #0
That's huge.
Speaker #1
Yep.
Speaker #0
So what, I want to know, like, what are you fueled by right now from a creative perspective? And also just like, what are you fueled by and interested in and a self-development way? Because I believe in looking at creativity through the lens of self-development. What are you working on and like fueled by creatively? And what are you working on just like internally?
Speaker #1
It's this idea of circumambulation.
Speaker #0
Ooh, tell me more. I don't know this phrase.
Speaker #1
It's, well, there's, like, religious, different religions use circumambulation. So, like, it's walking around, like, a holy statue or something. So, like, Buddhists will, like, walk around a temple. In a Jewish wedding, the bride walks around the groom seven times. They're now more progressive people. They do like three and a half, three and a half. Aw. And there's this idea that I read from Carl Jung.
Speaker #0
Yes.
Speaker #1
I need to bring it up because I like to read it. And we're talking about this as you and I are circumambulating this peninsula.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
circle in the way of an island yep is that what you meant by that yeah and we're exactly um let me find it carl jung wrote i began to understand that the goal of psychic development is the self there is no linear evolution there is only a circumambulation of the self uniform development exists at most at the beginning later everything points toward the center This insight gave me stability and gradually my inner peace returned, he wrote. And at my worst, I'm thinking like, okay, I did this thing. So now that means that I should progress to the next step of the ladder. But that's not what life is. It's not this linear thing where you start out as a rookie and then end up as a master. You're just going around in circles. And the second time you're going around the circle, You've gained some insight from the first time, but it also looks a little different. And now you're closer to the center. Now you're further away from the center. And it's like this constant state of becoming rather than, you know, this, yeah, this linear path toward enlightenment or something. And so I've been trying to make a piece. I don't know if it's going to be like an audio installation or a podcast episode, but something that kind of evokes this circumambulating. So there's no like first, second, and third act, but instead it's like it has some circular form. And so I don't know what it is. I don't know, you know, and so I feel like it's just kind of mirroring my life. We get up in the morning and we're seemingly kind of doing the same things. Like I'm making my kids breakfast every day. And the days can feel like Groundhog Day, but they're actually not. We're recording this at the end of the year. Where I feel like I'm having similar thoughts to the ones that I had last year. Around divorcing my worth from my sense of self. My creative worth from my sense of self. But it's like... No, this is the process. And so, yeah, trying to just understand circumambulation and trying to actually embody it and practice it is kind of where I'm at.
Speaker #0
Yeah, that's really cool. I was actually, it's interesting you bring this up because I was going to, I recently started a sub-stack and I was about to write a sub-stack article about how healing is never over. And I really think that's one of the great points of life is that if you ever think you're going to arrive, that's actually not the point. Like the point is to continue to go on the journey and just chip away a little bit every day.
Speaker #1
Yep.
Speaker #0
And that's what all of the great spiritual texts suggest too. Like I got the idea because I'm reading this book about Mary Magdalene and the way she was removed from Christianity and that like the early version of Christianity is not what we have now. And one of the points that like Jesus shared, like via Mary Magdalene, that healing spiritual level. evolution is eternal it's not a place where you arrive because if that were the case why don't we all just ascend like what are we here for right so i love that i love what you're bringing up because i think it's something that is needed right now it's like one of those universal eternal truths that we need to be reminded of in many different ways well i think you're a wonderful human and i really appreciate your artistry and your creativity and The fact that you're willing to take a chance on yourself. And, you know, one thing I do want to ask, because, like, I'm going to be in the stage of having kids, hopefully, next year or two of my life.
Speaker #1
Yeah, I hope so for you.
Speaker #0
Thank you. So, how are you talking to your kids about making sure they know who they are is the best thing about them, not their achievements, not what they do?
Speaker #1
Well, there's, like, a good example, like, when they make, when they draw something. Like, I comment on, like, how hard they're trying rather than, like, how good it is. So I think it's, like, that. But what else? I love that question. It seems like more than anything, it's, like, putting the phone away.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
And just, like, being with them. being present with them is going to teach them presence um and that you know what they need lies within them um that sounds that's that sounds a little trite but um yeah like our best our best moments are like when we're on the bike and just like looking out at buildings or when like we're in bed before they go to sleep or when we're drawing side by side or um yeah i mean it's i think it's so simple um just just being with them is like kind of the only thing what
Speaker #0
part of your inner child has been healed by being a father my mom's a painter a really talented painter and uh she i mean she was she was amazing at cultivating like a
Speaker #1
arts and crafts studio at our house and just praising whatever we did no matter what it was but i always felt like um i'm not a visual artist um and just drawing with my kids or collaging with my kids and not not needing it to be anything like just being like i i throw i throw whatsoever
Speaker #0
stuff away after we make it that's just there would just be your house would be one big paper mache yeah exactly um and just that being okay um i
Speaker #1
think that has helped a lot um like what you were saying about it's about it's about the journey and not the process like it's just about sitting next to each other and drawing Nothing, nothing more. But also we were talking earlier before we started rolling how lucky you and I both are to have really supportive parents. Like I had some wounds, but like my inner child was celebrated. Like my mom especially was so is and was an artist raising kids. And she was a preschool teacher before she had me. Like she's like the best. And so I was really loved up.
Speaker #0
Yeah. It's a lot of times it's not your parents. It's like other people outside of them. Yeah. Yeah. Like, you know, we talked about on your pod teachers.
Speaker #1
Yep.
Speaker #0
I had other family members, not my parents that, you know, did some damage. Love, you know, they loved me, but they also had limitations. So, yeah, it's true. So I have one final thing because, I mean, I feel like we need to get some of the weirdly helpful stuff on my show, too.
Speaker #1
Okay.
Speaker #0
What is your weirdly helpful little... piece you want to share do you have anything that either somebody said to you on the show or that you have yourself the thing that i think about a lot there's there's like a kind of canon in my head of like my favorite ones are the ones that i go back to the most one
Speaker #1
of them is about um i'm trying to stand out of the wind one of them is about like how can we actually untangle our self-worth from the stuff we make in the world? Like, what's an exercise to do that? And this woman who was a very successful designer and artist. uh she actually quit that life and became a therapist and she finds that like the way for her to actually untangle those two things is just to go outside and watch birds and realize that like there is a world happening right outside our window like beyond us that has nothing to do with us um and i find like whenever i'm like getting egoic about about my work stuff it's just like Just look at the birds. They're just like flying around. They don't give a shit about you. And that's kind of great.
Speaker #0
Yeah. I love that. That's also like one of my favorite Bible verses. It says something like, you know, I take care of the birds. You think I'm not going to take care of you? That's very crass way of saying it. But it's like, it's, they're always a good reminder. Like nature is our best reminder that like we're, we're part, very small part of like a big thing and everything is doing its piece.
Speaker #1
Absolutely.
Speaker #0
Yeah. Zach, thank you for being here on Unleash. You're awesome. This is so cool. Thanks, Lauren. Getting me out of my comfort zone. Thanks for walking with me. Walking around Belle Isle, then sitting in my office.
Speaker #1
Oh my God, this is great. Thank you.
Speaker #0
Thank you so much for listening. If this conversation resonated with you, I hope you take this away. You're allowed to evolve. You're allowed to outgrow old versions of yourself. And you're allowed to change your mind about what success looks like. Your creativity is not a fixed identity. It's a living, breathing relationship. And no matter how your world shifts, pivots, or transforms, you will always be bigger and more important than what you make. If you love this episode, it would mean so much if you'd share it with a creative in your life who might need the permission to reinvent themselves right now. And go ahead and rate and review, follow on Apple Podcasts and Spotify, and leave a comment on Spotify. This really helps creatives find the show and helps it grow. And make sure to go check out Zach. You can listen to his podcast, Weirdly Helpful. Go to his website, ZachRosen.com, Zach spelled Z-A-K, and check out his Instagram page at Weirdly Helpful. I love you and I believe in you. Talk with you next week.

About Unleash Your Inner Creative with Lauren LoGrasso (A Creativity Podcast)

New episodes are out every Wednesday - follow, rate and review wherever you get your podcasts :)

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

About Unleash Your Inner Creative with Lauren LoGrasso (A Creativity Podcast)

New episodes are out every Wednesday - follow, rate and review wherever you get your podcasts :)

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

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