- Speaker #0
It's called The Joys of Jetlag, How to Use a Traveler's Mindset to Not Be an A-Hole in Daily Life. It acts kind of like a guidebook for how to use this traveler's mindset to experience more joy in daily life. Because most of us only get, you know, a couple weeks of vacation each year, when we go on these trips, these vacations, we all know that feeling when we get there. It's like the stress and the worries just melt away and... we're quicker to laugh and more spontaneous and able to see setbacks as part of the adventure. So I kind of wrote this as a way to teach readers how to seek out moments of awe and fulfillment, regardless of whether they're standing in line at a Trader Joe's or watching the sunrise over the mountains of Nepal or wherever they choose to vacation, just to bridge the gap between when we feel like Like we're at ease and at peace and enjoying our life on vacation versus the daily grind when we're in this whole autopilot mode.
- Speaker #1
Welcome to the Wingin' It Travel podcast with me, James Hammond. Every Monday, I'll be joined by guests to talk about their travel stories, travel tips, backpacking advice, and so much more. Are you a backpacker, gap year student, or simply someone who loves to travel? Then this is the podcast for you, designed to inspire you to travel. There'll be stories to tell, tips to share and experiences to inspire. Welcome to the show. Hello and welcome to this week's episode where I'm joined by Kat Medina, the author of The Joys of Jetlag, which I'm currently reading at the minute. So we're going to discuss that book and some interesting topics in there, such as using your travel experiences in your real life, if you like, in your day-to-day life. So I'm going to talk about that because I'm very bad at that. And Kat has traveled to over 35 countries and lived... in Ecuador, Argentina, France and Spain. So a lot of questions, a lot of travel discussion today. Kat, welcome to the show. How are you doing?
- Speaker #0
I'm doing good. Thanks so much for having me on.
- Speaker #1
That's a pleasure. Can you tell the listeners where you are right now?
- Speaker #0
I'm in California in South Lake Tahoe. So right in the mountains next to a big, beautiful lake.
- Speaker #1
It sounds pretty idyllic. Can you explain to my European listeners and viewers if they're watching where Bats in California is? Because obviously it's a big state. It covers... an amazing array of different types of weather from north to south. So whereabouts are you?
- Speaker #0
Kind of northeastern by Sacramento and just on the border of Nevada. So Nevada is about a 15 minute drive from my house.
- Speaker #1
Oh yeah, I think people would know that. Okay, that's cool. I went to California last year on a road trip and we got stuck because there's a wildfire. So we had to go to Acaxia. Is that how you pronounce it? It's right by Crescent City. You know that far north up there?
- Speaker #0
Yeah, yeah.
- Speaker #1
Yeah, so that's where we kind of not got stuck. We were planning to go down south and work our way back up the 101, right? But we kind of had to go through the, I guess, the middle of that road in Northern California. But amazing area. Love the area.
- Speaker #0
It is. Yeah, it's unfortunate. There's so many wildfires by it, though.
- Speaker #1
Yeah, we have the same thing here. Yeah, it's just a constant daily. Yeah, I guess daily battle in the summer, I suppose. Yeah.
- Speaker #0
Yeah, it seems like wildfire season's now extending to more and more of the year.
- Speaker #1
Yeah, it's pretty grim, isn't it? Yeah. Okay. I'd like to go back to the backstory of our guests and understand where travel came into your life. So can you explain where you grew up and was travel part of your growing up as well?
- Speaker #0
I am originally from Santa Rosa, California, which is the North Bay. It's about an hour, hour and a half north of San Francisco. And from a very young age, I was always interested in traveling. I kind of, as a young girl, daydreamed about exploring the world instead of, you know, meeting Prince Charming. And, you know, getting married. I wanted to, to my, my dream career as a kid was to be, uh, an explorer MacGyver type person, which I don't really know if that's a career, but it,
- Speaker #1
uh,
- Speaker #0
yeah. Piques my interest in adventure and experiencing new cultures. And I had gone on a couple of trips as a kid, but, um, what really kicked off my. wanderlust was studying abroad in France when I was 17. I went for six months and didn't know a soul, hardly knew any French. I could barely say my name, like where I was from or what my name is. I just knew how to like count to 10 and sing songs because the public education that I got fantastic. But it forced me so far outside of my comfort zone. And just it. it kickstarted this, this shift in me where I, I just really enjoyed my own company. Like in the beginning before you make friends, especially when you can't. talk to a lot of people and express yourself and you're stuck with like gestures. You can't, it's hard to cultivate friendships at that base. And so I really had to kind of lean in and trust in myself and enjoy my own company for a while. And it, it just proved to me like how exhilarating it is to do incredibly hard things and come out through the other side. And then as like growing up, I moved a ton. I moved almost 20 times before I even graduated high school. Oh, wow. So I think maybe it was a bit of nature and nurture of just kind of having this restless spirit of always wanting to go to the next place and experience new things.
- Speaker #1
But 17 is young, isn't it? If you look back, that is 17.
- Speaker #0
Yeah. Lots of the travels I've been on and things that I've done, like in the moment, it just feels like, yes, this makes sense. This is exactly what I should be doing. And then when I look back, I'm like, I can't believe I did that.
- Speaker #1
Yeah, they kind of get the nostalgia going, don't they? A little bit because you kind of hop back to those days because it is so fresh and new. And I'm not saying like post travels after that is not the same, but there is an element of truth to that. Like Culture Shock could be an example where when you land somewhere for the first time and it is. genuine culture shock you kind of remember that because it hits you right but then things do get easier after that because you experience that one first dose of culture shock unless you're going somewhere really abnormal um but yeah going to france at 17 i think a lot of americans come on the podcast and they say they do their university swap wasn't really a thing in the uk i don't really remember that's definitely not an option at my university i don't remember too many people taking that as an option but then you in those days you could just go to eu and work anywhere so i don't think it would be as
- Speaker #0
such a bigger thing but I get the impression that Americans kind of take that opportunity like with both hands really at university yeah yeah exactly and I think like so I was still in high school and I did that one but then I also went in university to Spain but one of the the things that really shocked me when I was in France is I attended a French high school and it was eye-opening because I heard a completely different version of world history you And it was one in which the United States wasn't the protagonist, but France was. And I think seeing how everyone has their own version of history and reality based on where they live, it was fascinating because I learned about things that I had no clue they happened, but they definitely involved the U.S. And so it was kind of a humbling experience of seeing that and, you know, history affects culture, but also just. a great way to learn that there's, there's so many different ways to live life. And just because I'm used to one way doesn't mean it's the right way.
- Speaker #1
Yeah, absolutely. I think we'll come to that as one of the lessons of travel later on. How did you find the French opinion on Americans? What was that like? Did you get a sense of what they were generally thinking? You want to generalize too much, but like the general consensus?
- Speaker #0
Yeah, so I went, it was 2003 when I went, which was uh, you know, during the time of the Iraq war and America, you know, wasn't looking so hot in the eyes of others. It was the time of like, you know, Americans were calling French fries, freedom fries. And so there was a lot of divisiveness. And, um, I, I mean, my experience was pretty great. Like I met some really kind people and I know that There's like the French stereotype that they aren't the nicest, but I had the opposite experience. Like once I really, maybe it was because I was like plopped into a family, into a high school. Although I did notice a difference with like some of the other exchange students. They were from all over the world with the program that I participated in. And there were a couple of Americans. One was from... Idaho and the other was from like Kansas or Kentucky or something. And so we'd, we'd meet people and they'd be like, where are you from? And they'd say their States. And they'd be like, Oh, American. And I'd be like, I'm from California. And they'd be like, do you know Brad Pitt? And so I had, I had an advantage with my state. It wasn't very, but Yeah. You know, I went with it. And so my experience was that they were very kind and interested and curious. And their perception of California was that we went to school in our swimsuits and everyone was a cheerleader and we'd pass celebrities all the time. I lived in Northern California, so the beaches are much cooler there.
- Speaker #1
Yeah, absolutely. And what about Spain? Fast forward a few years, what was the reaction like there? Because obviously a slightly different history there, an interesting history between America and Spain. If you look at the continent of America and North America and how it's all kind of been divided out, like how was that?
- Speaker #0
So I had studied abroad in Barcelona for a year and it was my sophomore year. So my second year of university. And I... Went there in hopes to learn Spanish, but I found it to be pretty challenging because it is such a big touristy city. And also like the main language is Catalan more so than Spanish. And I noticed that like, you know, trying to learn a language where you just you realize so many of the things that kind of fill the space like signage. And. stuff like that. Like it all plays a part in language learning. So we went to Madrid for a weekend and all of the signs were in Spanish. And I was like, Oh, I'm learning so much without even trying. Um, but my, my experience in Barcelona was like, everyone was, um, eager to speak English with me. Um, and it was a little bit tougher to make friends there. Cause I felt like maybe it was Maybe it was the time that I went, you know, in university, everyone already has their groups of friends. And so that was a bit more challenging. But overall, I found, gosh, in pretty much every place that I've been, it just feels like when you're traveling and when you're kind of going about it, like open and curious and eager to learn about the other culture, the other people, who they are.
- Speaker #1
um you're generally treated with kindness for the most and so another great experience really yeah Barcelona is interesting isn't it because it's rare to go to a country where you have such a strong I don't want to say independence movement but a strong culture within a country right because when I went to Barcelona it's like Catalan flags everywhere we all have Barcelona the football team they speak different language like you say you can speak Spanish there but obviously they're not speaking Spanish amongst themselves it's like a quite a strong like opinion isn't there no we're going to speak Catalan I guess I'll speak Spanish like tourists maybe but like there's a pride and they have such a distinctive culture and language and food and the rest of it yeah and I met a couple people from there who thought that so it yeah it's very interesting yeah yeah very interesting did you manage to travel much of Europe when you're based in in Spain I guess France were you too young or were you out into Europe as well uh when I was in France it was it was mostly like I
- Speaker #0
lived with a host family so it was just kind of like doing what they typically did and while I was with them we did one trip to the Alps in Italy but mostly we just stayed in the town that I was living in which was really cool still yeah and when I was in Barcelona I took full advantage of how close and easy it was to travel across borders yeah Ryanair or trains and just try to go as often as I could because you know where I'm from it's the United States is so big and we're not close to many countries and it's very expensive to get to other countries and so
- Speaker #1
I just took full advantage yeah I don't blame you because I kind of feel that pain in Vancouver right yeah the only place I think in terms of flights I find is cheap in quotation marks is the west coast where you are You can get cheap flights down to LA, San Fran and Portland. Seattle is pretty close as well. But going anywhere else, it is a mission in terms of time, but also the cost does get to you after a while. And I kind of miss Europe for that, I think, a little bit.
- Speaker #0
Yeah, absolutely.
- Speaker #1
For Europe, when you're traveling around, was there any highlights in that Spain year that you're there, where you visited, thought, oh, wow, maybe you didn't expect anything. You probably read about Portugal or Spain or England, right? But did you go anywhere that was quite unique?
- Speaker #0
Yeah, I went with my roommate and another friend to Morocco. And I would say that was the one that really stood out as being different than anywhere I'd previously traveled. I hadn't done too much research. It was we took advantage of a last minute flight and just kind of scrambled it together. And we had a bit of culture shock with it. We. went in through Tangier and it was kind of intense within the first couple hours where And this is back in the day. So I don't know how it is now. And so it's like 2003. And at the time, one of the challenges with like these port cities is and a lot of bigger cities is the challenge of fake guides.
- Speaker #1
Yeah.
- Speaker #0
People try to take you different places. And a lot of times the places they go, they have connections with and they try to pressure you to get something there or we read about that and we're mentally prepared for it. No, thank you. Like, we don't need a guide. Thank you anyway. And just within like within 20 minutes of arriving, this one man was so persistent. And we like even went into these little shops to try to get him away from us. But what he did is he kept walking ahead of us and being like, come on, my friends, come on. And then turning back, we're like, we're just walking in this general direction. Like. we're not following you. This is not a guide situation. And we kept changing and he kept going in front of us. And it was very odd. And he kind of stuck with us the whole time. And we just needed to kill about two hours before we went on a train to a different city. And after about an hour and a half of this going on, when we're trying to explore the city and he keeps staying about 10 feet in front of us the whole time, pretending that he's our guide. We're like, we, okay. Like by we were leaving, um, and he started to demand money, even though he wasn't our guide. And, um, we were like, we, we don't have any, like, I held out coins and he like slapped my hand and the coins were flying and started screaming at us. And a different guy, like a different local guy came up and like, he had seen what was happening towards the tail end of it. And started getting in an argument with the fake guide in Arabic. And we didn't really understand what was going on. But the guy that intervened was kind of like, you guys just get to the train station. Don't talk to anyone. Don't leave the train station and go right now. And so we started kind of running to the train station and they got into like a fist fight.
- Speaker #1
Oh, they did? Yeah. Oh, wow.
- Speaker #0
And that was our welcome to the country kind of. And we were... Very shocked and kind of unsettled, but so grateful for the stranger to step in and help us when he saw what was happening.
- Speaker #1
I didn't expect that. I thought he would come in and just kind of calm it down, understand the situation, and that'd be it. But the fact they got into a fight is a bit extreme, isn't it?
- Speaker #0
Yes, I think it is a very unusual and rare situation. I think we just got some random guy just trying to... cling on to us and we were very clear this is not not a guide situation um but the the stranger helped us out and then once we went on the train and uh got to a city like we went to marrakesh next and then fez and then chef shaowen which is smaller and this is pre-instagram you know like blowing up and in popularity so it was still very very quiet um And it felt kind of off the beaten path in that year. And we just after we got out of that port city and that initial experience, everyone was very hospitable and welcoming. And it was just it was like a polar opposite from the initial introduction. So that trip was maybe like a week or 10 days long. And. it was really eye-opening too, just seeing how different people live. We happened to travel during Ramadan. And so that made it a bit interesting trying to figure out where to eat. Generally, back in the day before TripAdvisor or other websites where you can figure out what the most delicious restaurant is, you just kind of went where there were a lot of people eating. But during Ramadan, no one's really eating. So it was a guessing game. At one point it was, yeah, like stomach roulette. And we did lose out one of the times.
- Speaker #1
Yeah, we experienced the Ramadan travel last year. And I think we were in Jordan and, yeah, maybe Oman as well. But it's quite interesting because we found that they kind of do help you eat, but like very secretively. So what happens is like... around the corner from our hostel. The local cafe we always went to for a drink. Did seem to serve that, and that was fine. But any food is obviously out of the question. But then he did say, oh, I have got some soup and stuff, but if you're going to eat it, that's absolutely fine, but I need to pull down the blinds. Almost like to put you in the corner and hide you away. So it was possible, but it was tough, because even Jordan, which is a tourist destination, if you like, even that in Amman, the capital, was pretty tough to find. Not hard to find iftar meals in the evening. There's plenty of options for that. but during the day was interesting i think the only advice i could probably give people is like hotels they seem to have food on site for tourism purposes maybe they're owned by non-muslims maybe i'm not sure so that's like an option but similar experience like one
- Speaker #0
thing that really shocked us was um once uh it was the time that they could eat um if we happen to be walking like down the street where there's like little stalls or shops they would invite us in and offer us food before they even had a chance to eat themselves oh wow and I was just shocked because that would not happen where I was from no absolutely not we kind of had a rule because if we're in a
- Speaker #1
restaurant where it's obviously clearly for the iftar meal in the evening we actually let people go first because they'll be so kind to let you join the queue and go in front but like no no you haven't eaten all day we kind of have getting invited in no not really i think we had that sort of invite maybe in like the desert like wadi rum they would like create that sort of vibe even though it's ramadan it's like a family vibe but not really on the street and
- Speaker #0
i didn't get much of that but that's amazing though isn't it yeah yeah i was i was shocked we like generally just politely declined because it was like this is just you know
- Speaker #1
sometimes someone offers something and it just feels so nice like you can't accept it yes or you're unfortunately a bit um suspicious yeah because what you said earlier about the constant you know the fake guys and the constant harassment like something like delhi is a bit it's a bit like that if you go in the center of delhi you don't get left alone and even if you want to go somewhere just like a rickshaw or tuk-tuk to somewhere else they will try and take you to a restaurant or a shop and you do have to make that clear like no restaurant no shop yeah they get annoyed because travelers then use uber but at least uber you get the price which is guaranteed and it's as normal and you don't get taken to any rogue restaurants or shops right so i can see why travelers do do that yeah yeah i agree we i had a similar experience in delhi actually oh yeah okay yeah interesting place in terms of culture shock that was my second one you my first one was Bangkok I was like wow what is this never been to Asia and you think you get used to that and Vietnam's very busy but Delhi was like whoa that is a different level yeah I
- Speaker #0
I agree completely it was like every sense that I had yeah oh overstimulated like sight sound smell taste like everything and it was unlike anything I'd ever experienced yeah hardcore
- Speaker #1
I think if you're going to India you probably are going to land in Delhi aren't you so I would advise people giving it a go but the dust the smell the smog in the evening where and you don't really see the sun properly yeah and just the food obviously is incredible but you need to have a strong stomach for that belly belly yeah got that a few times car so ill before we get to your book I want to ask obviously you're traveling when you're younger in high school but also university how did you then develop maybe thinking of, I want to travel alongside a career? How did you bring those two together? Or were they completely separate of all times?
- Speaker #0
Initially, it was separate. I studied international business and then graduated during the recession. And so it was tough to get a job. And I got one at a solar company doing marketing. And after like a year, the business went under. And so I started waitressing, which is what I had done in college. And during that time, I was chatting with my then boyfriend, now husband, and two other friends. And we were like, we were all kind of recent graduates and just lamenting about how different we expected it to be once we graduated and how challenging it was to get a job and a career. And we're like, we should just start our own business. So. We ended up starting a web design business and my husband had studied like design and development and the other two friends hadn't. But we all learned it using free online resources. Yeah. And. So we created that business. And the beautiful thing about it is it could all be done remotely. And because we were working for ourselves, we had this priority to make sure that the time that we were working was efficiency-based. Like, put in the time, get a project done. You don't have to clock in and out nine to five just to stretch out the clock. It doesn't matter when you do it, as long as it's done and done well. I meant that I could do it anywhere. And so I quit the waitressing job. And for as long as I can remember, I've always wanted to travel to South America. It's just always I feel like everyone has a certain spot that they're drawn to. Yeah. And maybe it's a country. For me, it was a continent. But I was thinking like, gosh, I really want to do this. I want to. just experience it and learn Spanish and just finally go on this adventure. Um, when I don't have a lot of things really that I need to be, you know, at home for, like, I didn't have a mortgage. I didn't have kids. I wasn't married yet. Um, but, or a job that, that had going in every single day. And so I. decided to go to Ecuador and, and then to Argentina. And I have happened to have like the most encouraging and supportive then boyfriend now husband who knew from the start, like this, this is what really, really lights me up. And so he, like, we did the long distance thing while I was there. And, um, it, it just, when I was there, I was able to still do the the web design business. And so in a sense, I kind of used my degree international business, just binding the two interests. But web design was never really my passion. It was more just a means to an end. It made it so that I was able to have the lifestyle that I wanted. And it wasn't until I think 2018 or 2019 when I finally took the leap and pursued a writing career which is what I had kind of always wanted to do but never really fully admitted it until then and both of those the both of those jobs it's it's lucky because you can do it anywhere so that's
- Speaker #1
made it really wonderful to be able to pair the two passions so you're like one of the early sort of pioneers of digital nomad and like you literally are going out needing internet on the laptop I guess to work but You kind of hear that recently, right? Maybe last five years, maybe because of COVID as well. That's a thing that's come in the last five, six, seven years, but you were doing it like five, six, seven years before that.
- Speaker #0
Yeah, it was, but it wasn't like the full-time thing. So I would go on longer trips and then come back. And I like, besides like the study abroad stuff, the South America trip was just over six months. Yeah. And other than that, they've been like kind of capped at three to four weeks. just because life has shifted a bit um but i still try to go as often as i can but the people like nowadays that you see i i'm so a bit envious but also really respectful of the fact that they can pull off the full-time full-time nomad yeah
- Speaker #1
i've had quite a few come on the podcast talk about that it's quite an interesting area and something i'd love to give a go at but it is maybe not as glamorous maybe sometimes people perceive on the internet or on social media i think it's a few things got to weigh up right especially yourself you've got to know yourself which will come to your book but I think that's great you've got to go for six months so that's a that's a good amount of time to go for in terms of a trip but even if you're going three or four weeks at a time to South America you've still got the choice to right I mean how many people in America don't get that as a vacation time yes
- Speaker #0
exactly yeah most people they get like two weeks yeah but you give yourself the opportunity to go yeah exactly and I mean a lot of people like they they you they get like two to three weeks but then almost have to kind of reserve it just in case something comes up and they don't have enough sick days or so it's it's challenging and then also the travel time to get places too yeah because South America is
- Speaker #1
so far from here isn't it in terms of the flight time I mean it's crazy I mean it's five hours here to Mexico City so you're barely in Central America really before you get to like I don't know Buenos Aires or Rio whatever it's way down there so It's a heck of a journey.
- Speaker #0
It is. Yeah. And when I did that trip, I was just focused on budget. So I think I had like four or five layovers. It took almost two days to get there.
- Speaker #1
Best way.
- Speaker #0
Like it was long, but I was just, I was by myself and it was like fine. And it's not like I had to rush back. I was like, I'm going for a couple of months. It doesn't. It's okay. I can manage. But in the middle of it, it was pretty brutal. We went to Chile a year ago, two years ago. It was my husband and my two-year-old son at the time. And with that one, we tried for as few layovers as possible. Because toddler travel is, you don't want to do a lot of layovers.
- Speaker #1
I can imagine. I think my rule for layover is on the way there, it's fine. Because you have the anticipation and excitement, but on the way back. If I can, as short as possible. You just want to get over and done with.
- Speaker #0
That's a good rule. I like that.
- Speaker #1
Yeah. Okay. I'm going to come back to Ecuador and Argentina in a bit because I've got some questions. But I want to dive into your book, The Joys of Jetlag. Can you tell the listeners the premise of your book and why you wrote it?
- Speaker #0
Yeah. Kind of like what we were talking about. So it's called The Joys of Jetlag. How to use a traveler's mindset to not be an a-hole in daily life. And it acts kind of like a guidebook. for how to use this traveler's mindset to experience more joy in daily life. Because most of us only get, you know, in the US anyway, a few weeks, a couple weeks of vacation each year. When we go on these trips, these vacations, we all know that feeling when we get there. It's like the stress and the worries just melt away. And we're quicker to laugh and more spontaneous and able to see setbacks as part of the adventure. And so I kind of wrote this as a way to teach readers how to seek out moments of awe and fulfillment, regardless of whether they're standing in line at a Trader Joe's or, you know, watching the sunrise over the mountains of Nepal or wherever they choose to vacation, just to bridge the gap between, you know, when we feel like we're at ease. peace and enjoying our life on vacation versus the daily grind when we're in asshole autopilot mode. So the reason I wrote this is because for most of my life, I've been two different people. I, you know, I've traveled pretty extensively and then lived in four other countries. And I noticed that when I traveled, I was my best self and joy was effortless. But then When I returned home, it felt like it was elusive and forced. I'd try to control the uncontrollable. I'd get frustrated when things didn't go as planned, and I stopped appreciating the little things like clean drinking water or a hot shower, even though I knew firsthand from so many of the places that I'd been just how rare those things were in so many parts of the world. And so I'd focus on my next trip. And when I could feel fully alive again and being my best self, the person I was most proud of. And then one day I realized that as much as I prioritize traveling, I still spent most of my time at home. And it felt like such a waste to spend my days wishing I was somewhere else instead of enjoying where I was. So I made it my mission to bridge the gap between who I was when I traveled and who I was at home. And I realized that it all came down to this mindset, a traveler's mindset. And by embodying a traveler's mindset in daily life, when I wasn't traveling, I was able to feel the joy that I craved no matter where I was. And I kind of pinpointed the different characteristics that I naturally adopted as soon as my feet hit the tarmac and brought those home. Because I knew that I could already do this. When I was abroad, it was effortless. So now I just had to figure out the details of what I was doing different and actively try to do it at home. And so I did that for a while and then COVID happened. So I really got to put it to the test.
- Speaker #1
Yeah, put the test.
- Speaker #0
And then I decided to write about it in hopes of providing people with simple but impactful strategies that they could use in their life to experience more joy. great adventure on the day to day, instead of just when they're on vacation.
- Speaker #1
Such an interesting topic. I've got so many points, because I struggle with this big time. I'd even say I'm probably a bit like you, maybe like, I don't know, two, three, four years ago, where you're like this, because I am a polar opposite between local real life to travel. A few examples would be when you travel, I don't know if this is natural, or this is like normal, but I would be out. all the time exploring every you know all day every day easily getting 10 15 000 steps in exploring all different types of maybe hiking trails cities towns nature islands whatever it is i'm walking around so i'm active and probably heart rate's going up and i seem to be a bit happier but in in home life i'm completely opposite i'm lazy i don't go out that much sometimes it's completely opposite as as one example right so i really struggle with this the side of it because it feels like you are living two lives where if you're not away, you're probably thinking about it all the time like I do most days. So therefore you're not living in the present, are you? You're kind of like wishing you're somewhere else or doing something else or at least just letting days go by. It's quite a strong feeling, but also a struggle.
- Speaker #0
Yeah, absolutely. I know exactly what you're talking about.
- Speaker #1
Yeah. So this book was really interesting because you laid out your personal experiences with travel and life. to the different topics of the of the chapters right so i like that because you're kind of giving an example of maybe your travel life and the story relating to that but then that same type of feeling could be openness i think it's one of them the first one into real life you're like are you not like that you are someone different trying to get that cat travel self into cat local self you know on the ground day to day so an awesome book you start off with a poon hill adventure what a trek that is in terms of Nepal. It's quite a tough hike, isn't it? And we got to the top and we couldn't believe our eyes how spectacular that was.
- Speaker #0
Yeah, it's pretty amazing. Worth the hike for sure.
- Speaker #1
And the legs do get a bit of a seeing too. Yeah. When you're traveling, were you thinking in your back of your mind, I need to write about this as like a travel blog, vlog type thing? Or were you always thinking, maybe I need to like do travels, come back home? sort yourself out in brackets there and then maybe see how you do with that and then that led on to the book like how did that journey take place so
- Speaker #0
I before I left for that first trip to France at 17 my best friend gave me a journal like two days before I left I had I'd never even thought to keep a journal but it and it was right before I left and I it started this habit where since that trip every single trip I've been on, I keep a journal and I write every day that I'm traveling. And it's a lot of it's observations or just little interactions that happened, just things that I've noticed. And so that's the main focus when I'm traveling is just filling out that journal. And then whatever comes of it comes of it down the line. But In writing the book, it was really, really helpful because I had just like this huge stack of journals of every place that I'd been to. And one thing I learned is like in the places that I lived for longer periods of time, because I was trying to learn the language, I would try to fill in the words as I learned them. So in France, like the beginning of it is like all English, but then it starts to. slowly switch over to primarily French with a few English words. Yeah. I did the same thing when I was living in the Spanish speaking countries. The downside is since learning Spanish, I've completely forgotten French.
- Speaker #1
I thought that was coming.
- Speaker #0
It's the motivation to learn it eventually because I don't know what I wrote.
- Speaker #1
That's quite funny.
- Speaker #0
Motivations of a 17 year old. I don't know. I can't imagine they're too profound.
- Speaker #1
Too profound, yeah. It's quite funny but frustrating because you might have some nice or interesting nuggets in there. I guess you can Google translate it, I suppose.
- Speaker #0
Probably. It's probably talking a lot about croissants and Nutella because I was obsessed.
- Speaker #1
Maybe that's volume two of the book. Yeah. Or like a special edition at the end.
- Speaker #0
Yeah,
- Speaker #1
that's funny. You go to quite in-depth subjects of your daily life as well. I think it's quite profound in that way, right? Because you talk through the scenarios relating to each of the chapters.
- Speaker #0
in your daily life which are quite raw I think I must admit um when I'm reading I think definitely about you trying to have a child that's quite an interesting part of the first chapter yeah I try and that's one of those things that but outside of traveling I didn't really keep a journal but then I started to and um it's much easier to do when I travel because you know you're you're seeing new things and it's feeling very exciting But then at home, I tried to just, I took a little break after having kids because life got a little bit nuts, but to just do like three pages each morning and. just, it could be total crap, but just right and right and right. And so during that time, like my husband and I had been trying to have kids for a couple of years and had a couple pregnancy losses. And I maintained a journal through that, which I felt was really cathartic and helped me navigate what was a pretty tough time because so much of my life, I had it kind of down to a science of goal setting, like come up with it. You have a plan, you follow the steps, you get it done no matter what. Certain things in life, though, doesn't matter how great of a plan or how driven you are and how many actions you take, it just won't happen. And so that was one of those scenarios where I had to, like, it was life telling me like, okay, you got to learn how to surrender and let go. And it, you know, it was really, really challenging. But there were so many gifts involved with the whole thing. Like that was the tipping point for us deciding to move from San Jose, which is like big city concrete, everything like it was great for careers, um, very fast paced and, um, you know, achievement driven, but I, that was never where I wanted to be long-term. I always wanted to live in the mountains. Um, and when we first got pregnant and then we had the loss, that was kind of like, okay, like, what are we waiting for, for this dream to move? Like let's shit or get off the pot. Cause I think that with it not working out, we were able to pursue that dream and kind of look at like, what's really keeping us here. Um, nothing like, like, yeah, we still have our friends and stuff. But to pull the trigger and make that decision, like there weren't any like we could make it work if we wanted it badly enough. And that was one of those things that we could actually pull off, you know. But I think if if that pregnancy was viable, then we would have gotten comfortable because all of our friends like we were late to the game. And so all of our friends already had kids. So we had our village kind of built in. Yeah. And I think we would have stayed. And so. Besides that, it also led us to, led me to learn the lesson of like surrendering and letting go. And I realized so much of my life, even though it has been focused on, you know, making a plan and getting things done and enjoying progress and achievement and things like that. A lot of it came. kind of like white knuckle controlling the process and the outcome. And I think that was also a big difference between home version of me versus travel me is that at home, I would just try to control and force everything to happen the way that I wanted to get what I wanted. And in the end result, it all worked out. But it's when I traveled, I just like I have an idea. of what I hope to experience and see and do, but I left a ton of room for spontaneity and synchronicity and life to step in and give me just an incredible trip. I'm being open to that. And so when you're forced into surrendering and letting go, it kind of wakes you up to like, hey, maybe life isn't meant to just be done my way. Maybe if I loosen the grip a little bit. and see what's being presented to me and choosing to participate in it, whatever it may be, as much as I may not like it or love it, but instead just try my best to accept it as if it was given to me as a gift and show up as authentically as I can and try to make a positive impact just by showing up fully. And so it was a hard lesson to learn, but
- Speaker #1
man it was a game changer for me and eventually once i did ease up like my grip on how i wanted things to be it all kind of worked out even better than i had planned hey yeah just a quick one i just want to say there are many ways to support this podcast you can buy me a coffee and help support the podcast with five dollars or you can go to my merch store with the affiliate link with t public where there's plenty of merch available to buy such as t-shirts jumpers hoodies and also some children's clothing thirdly which is free You can also rate and review this podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Podchaser or Goodpods. Also, you can find me on social media on Instagram, Twitter. Facebook and TikTok. Simply just search for Winging It Travel Podcast and you'll find me displaying all my social media content for travelling, podcasts and other stuff. Thank you. That sort of statement there is interesting because with travel, you can't really control too much of it anyway, because you're in another country, another culture, you can try and control what you're going to see and to an extent you might go to a cafe for a coffee or something, but because you're not in a familiar land... there are going to be things that are going to happen that are just not on the radar. So I think travel kind of does teach you to be, I think I'm going to come to these in a minute, but you kind of listed some of your chapters with certain points that you need to be like focusing on. And one of those is openness because you need to be open to change and accept that spontaneity is going to play a part. But at home, you can obviously go the other way and be really controlled, like you just said. I think maybe this is where I struggle as well, where travel, I've got no choice but to let things go and just kind of go with the flow, right? don't know who I'm going to meet don't know what's going to happen today I got a rough idea but then accepting that it might not go the way you planned but that's fine and accepting that as part of that day and not trying to control it too much yeah exactly I don't want to like list everything because people got to buy the book and read it but I've got three ways to live I've picked three out in certain chapters and the first one is I have an open heart I think we talked about that second one is authenticity that's quite key isn't it I think to give an example, podcasting, you don't want to try and be someone else. You've got to be yourself because then what's the point? Yeah. That's quite key in life, isn't it? Being authentic because once you start trying to come away from that, I don't think it goes down a good road. I don't think.
- Speaker #0
Yeah. I, I completely agree. I think that people can tell when someone's being authentic and genuine and we're naturally attracted to that because I think that's how we're meant to be. Yeah. But I mean, just. In the way that we're raised and needing to belong and fit in, we kind of lose that. And I think most of us have to unlearn it, unlearn the way that like who we've become and take away all the stuff that we've put on that's kind of hiding who we really are. And a lot of like really wonderful friendships. You know, those are the people who have seen you like fully and they're the ones who would like do anything for you. And if you're not authentic, you can't achieve that same level of connection. I really think that's what it's all about. It's like being courageous enough to show who you really are so that you can fully connect with other people. And it adds just a richness and depth to the human experience.
- Speaker #1
How did you find that with travel? Because you're going to meet so many different people and they are only going to know you for the first day they meet you, right? That's like, there's no previous history. There's no knowing you. So they literally know you from day one of probably like 20, in your 20s or something, right? For a few days, maybe a week or even a few months if you're living in Argentina, whatever, Ecuador. But how was that experience compared to home in terms of the friendships?
- Speaker #0
You know, I think I... It's funny because like when I like growing up, I've always been like super shy and I had have some really wonderful friendships, but it takes some time warming up. Except for like the occasional few were just like you immediately click. Yeah. But when I travel is kind of like I'd be effortlessly outgoing. And so. That was very confusing to me because it felt like shyness wasn't a choice. It was just a thing that happened without me even knowing how to stop it. But I think the difference is at home, I'd be so focused on like, oh gosh, I hope I'm showing up okay. I hope they like me, just getting all caught up in my head. And then when I traveled, I... go into it really curious like i want to know about you like tell me your your story i want to know everything and you know be more open to talking to strangers the non-creepy ones of course not the big guides everyone but going into it and seeing the differences and listening to learn not to agree or disagree or respond but just like quality listening, what you're doing with your podcast, you know, and it just, it helps you when you go into it with that mindset of curiosity and vulnerability. Showing up, maybe, you know, making mistakes or blunders, especially if you're dealing in another language and just being like, I don't know, like not taking it so seriously. And then you're able to speed up for me the warm up time and go deeper, quicker. I think that's it, too, because you're in places for shorter periods of time. I don't know. It's just it's easier to bypass the small talk and get right into the good stuff. You know,
- Speaker #1
how do you deal with. There's like small periods of time where you maybe you meet a group of people or someone you get on really well, like almost at the time in life, like two or three days. And then you both kind of saunter off into your own lives, whether you're carrying on traveling or going home, knowing the fact that you might not ever see them again. How do you deal with that?
- Speaker #0
Yeah, it felt like a long time ago. It definitely there was much more of a finality to it because of. social media wasn't as prominent. Yeah. Now it's like you can, it's cool. You can stay connected with people you meet. And that part's really neat about social media. But I think prior to that, or in the other circumstances where you don't end up connecting online or exchanging contact information, I don't know, I feel like you kind of have closure in it. You show up, you have this experience. I write about it in my journal and I just think back really fondly of the different people that I've encountered. And I'm OK with this. Like I just acceptance like, oh, yeah, well, they're living there and I'm here and that's that.
- Speaker #1
There is kind of a beauty to it, isn't there? A little bit. It's quite tough sometimes, but I think there is a beauty to it where that is designed for that moment and that's it.
- Speaker #0
And sometimes sometimes it's the opposite. And like, let's say you're compelled to like, let's exchange emails or something. And there have been a handful of those relationships where they've circled back. And, you know, several years later, someone's traveled close by and you end up being able to meet meet up with them. And that's super cool, too.
- Speaker #1
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. A few times people met traveling. Yeah. In the last 10 years, it's been very interesting, isn't it? My third point for your book is finding the funny. I think you mentioned that a few times. That's key as well, isn't it? Because you do need to kind of let loose a little bit sometimes and not take anything. too seriously because otherwise what's the point that there is there is a time and place I guess for being serious but you even meet these people traveling they're kind of a bit serious when they travel you think oh you just need to let go a little bit I think you mentioned being vulnerable this podcast is definitely that because some people I interview I know and we have that connection already but someone like you for example I don't know so I met you for the first time literally an hour ago so that there is like a different type of connection and vibe there because I've got to get to know you and there's like Aaron Cora that we're talking but that is different someone I know right so you kind of need to be open-minded but also a bit vulnerable and kind of turn up for a bit of a laugh really because otherwise it can't go the other way so yeah I think that's a key point as well yeah
- Speaker #0
and I think like I don't know so many of the mishaps that happen on travel like during travels that might be really frustrating at home like those are the things that you end up telling to your friends stories later it's like that that's the comic relief and the time at the time it might not feel funny but travel speeds up the amount of time it takes for you to laugh about some sort of mishap or setback or you know when you mess up on saying something and um i the more that we can bring that back to daily life the more enjoyable it'll be and just like being able to laugh at yourself it's It's contagious and it just is kind of like, yeah, it doesn't have to be so serious. It's way more enjoyable when we can just kind of recognize that and laugh it off and see it all as a gift, you know?
- Speaker #1
Yeah, absolutely. Which is your favorite chapter in the book?
- Speaker #0
Oh, that's tough. I think actually the first one, Openhearted. I just that's what led me. to do to make so many decisions and that's that's been one of my main guiding compasses in in life is like get out of my my freaking head get into my heart and have that be the decision maker it hasn't really steered me wrong and it just is it's led to so many incredible friendships and adventures and um so i i would say that one okay that's good because people got to start there right
- Speaker #1
so yeah yeah i'm not saying that i've got some questions about what type of traveler you are um based on what you've talked about so far in your book but also outside of the of the book are you but like me like a budget backpacker or are you sort of mid-range luxury do you prefer overland travel or do you mind flying like what type of traveler are you do you think uh
- Speaker #0
that's kind of shifted so for most of my travels it was more budget to mid-range um I stay in hostels but I do private room um you And that's mostly because I had like some horror stories from friends and like where she woke up in the shared dorm with a guy licking her face. And I'm like, I'm cool off that. I don't even like when cats do that to me, let alone random guys in the middle of the night. But usually I would say, OK, this is all like pre-kids. That's where things kind of shifted for me. free kids it was more budget focused try to get um as much like i i alternate between like slow travel and get as much in as i can so i kind of find a balance of that you know and i like having home bases but i also like seeing different cities it changes but i love going to places that are kind of off the beaten track um that can really shock my senses um i would say three kids most recently that was just before COVID. And that's when I had done the Nepal, India and Myanmar trip.
- Speaker #1
Oh, yeah.
- Speaker #0
It was just everything I'd hoped for. Like we saw a lot of places we met so many people, you know, did a lot of hiking and just went really far outside of our comfort zone. And, and it was amazing. So just kind of saying yes to whatever shows up. When we were in Myanmar, we were staying in this like guest house type thing in Inley Lake. So it's boarding village and you had to take this little boat to get there. And on our last day when we were it was me and my friend Amber and we were taking the boat back to go to the next city. And his wife, the boat driver's wife and son were in the little boat with us. And they didn't speak English and we didn't speak Burmese, but they invited us to lunch at their house. And so we went like it was just like, you know what? We have time. Sure. And they ended up like getting a bunch of food and setting it up on the floor with a roll of toilet paper to use as a napkin. And it was like just this this two room wooden house on stilts on the water. And they had three cats. And for entertainment, it's like, how do you have a lunch with people when you don't speak the same language? Awkward. Home Catherine would be just flipping out. What do I do? Travel Cat was like, let's just see what happens. And so what happened was a lot of laughter and gestures and showing photos and videos. And. then the husband had taught his cats how to do tricks. And so he was showing us these tricks where they jumped through hoops and it was an amazing lunch. And one of the, our most, like for me, one of the best memories of the whole trip. And it just came from a random, yes, you know? So that was, that was the type of travel that I liked. And then I have now two boys, a three-year-old and a one-year-old. And so the travel has kind of shifted. The places that we go are a little bit different. Like we went to Canada with my first son and did Banff and Jasper and then Chile. And then we just got back a week and a half ago from Norway. And I so places were. what we learned is that we had a bit of a health scare when we were traveling once. And we're like, note to self, like, at least until they're like out of the really young baby stage, go to a place with decent healthcare, just in case. Yes.
- Speaker #1
Yeah. Yeah. Makes sense.
- Speaker #0
And also like transportation wise, like how comfortable are we going to place in South America where the car seats are hard to come by and we don't really want to travel with it. Like. So, um... Just taking those things into account. And then it's also like a slower pace because we don't want to be moving to different hostels, hotels, Airbnbs like every couple nights. So in the Norway trip, we only did we were there a little over two weeks. We only did two cities in Norway and then Denmark on the way out because it was a direct flight back. Stopped at a lot of playgrounds, which I never would have done without. But it's kind of nice because although I do miss the more adventurous stuff, I know that'll come in the future or whenever they're a little bit older and I can start doing like solo trips or these kind of more adventurous ones with them. I do enjoy the slower pace and it's cool because going to these like. you know, local playgrounds. We do like to see what we want to see pop off at a playground and then hang out at a cafe and you'd get to meet other local parents. And that was pretty cool. And just see the different ways that people parent, which is different everywhere you go. And just a little bit slower, kind of taking more like, okay, let's pretend we're locals here for a little bit. And if we don't get to see all the sites, that's okay. Um, but it's, so it's different and I'm not going to lie. The, the Norway trip, like there was one or two, maybe three moments where I said, I'm never traveling with kids again. Oh, okay. Very jet lagged. And, and then it happened on the way back to when I was super jet lagged and we all got COVID. And so that was, it was amidst of that. And I'm like, never again. And then we finally all got sleep and weren't sick anymore. And I was like, Oh, where next? So it was short lived, luckily.
- Speaker #1
Yeah, that's a bit of a journey, right? From the 17 year old in Paris.
- Speaker #0
Yeah, yeah, it's it's different. It's a different kind of adventure. But it's for me, like, I just I'm kind of obsessed with seeking out moments of awe. And I think that's one of the things that I love so much about travel is that it's really, really easy to do that because you're going into these. generally these amazing places that are, you know, visited for a reason and you're seeing extraordinary things. And so of course you're going to experience awe. And what I, that's one of those things I really try to make an active effort to bring that back to daily life because that makes me feel so alive and so connected to everyone and everything, every aspect of the environment around me. fills me with wonder. So how can you do that when you have like the daily grind and everything's always kind of the same? How do you see, how do you get that same feeling? And so I've been trying really hard to do that. And it's been kind of cool because seeing like my, my kids show me how, like, Hey, how about instead of overlooking the same tree that you walk past every day, we stop. We pick up the most fascinating rock in the world and look at the tree bark. And at first you're like, come on, we got to walk the dog and get exercise. And you just like pause for a second. You see their sense of awe and wonder because for a lot of this, it is the first time. Yeah,
- Speaker #1
yeah, yeah.
- Speaker #0
So to make that effort to be like, whoa, pause. Let me just put on a different here and pretend like this is the first time. And it is absolutely incredible. it's an active effort but when I really try I notice a difference it's pervasive it spreads to everything else in my life and it kind of eases it up and reminds me like gosh it is all really magical if you look for it yeah that's a great point actually about that because imagine
- Speaker #1
being like one of those like most travel people right which I've interviewed a few of my podcasts and it's great they get to go to all these places but then you don't want to run out of places to go to do you and that'd be pretty sad yeah The three places you mentioned in this conversation, Chile, I'm like thinking, well, you can get a boat down the coast towards the Patagonia area. That'd be incredible getting a boat down there. I'm like, I can't imagine the views there. Norway, I've never been to, unbelievably. So I can imagine it's fjords and it's like the roads go all the way through the islands. I think that'd be incredible. You mentioned Myanmar. We went to Bagan. That was incredible. And Yangon, bit of a crazy city. These places do invoke awe because how can it not? um so that is the the draw right but yeah you're right locally it's like taking that different road or that different street and making yourself do that because otherwise we just do the same walk again even if you like it you do need to change it up a little bit just to keep things fresh.
- Speaker #0
I recently heard this podcast interview and this woman was talking, this woman had cancer and like a recurrence of it. And she had first been diagnosed when she was like in her twenties. And then now it's like several years later after she went into remission, it came back and was chatting with her doctor. And she was just like the way that it. showed up is that she kind of has to be on chemo indefinitely and she's like I don't know how to do that without an end time like and he was like just live live each day like it's your last and and she was like that that is very stressful like and and confusing you know sell everything and don't plan future and and that I I you know we've all heard that advice just live each day like it's your last and it's always stressed me out too because I was like how how do you do that, but then also take into account the future. Cause those are two different things and very differently. And she thought about it and she said, you know, I, I think for me that the better option, the one that, that doesn't fill me with stress, but instead peace is to live each day. Like it's my first. And that's how you experience off offer, you know, the mundane. And and are able to see the extraordinary within the ordinary. And I think that's one of the main keys for being able to, you know, tap into that traveler's mindset, no matter where you are.
- Speaker #1
Yeah, 100%. Definitely agree with that. Yeah, that's quite an interesting statement. Okay. And has there been one place that blew your mind?
- Speaker #0
Oh, man, so many.
- Speaker #1
Or even one area within a place?
- Speaker #0
Oh, one place that blew my mind. Um, I would say, so I would, I think New Zealand. Um, I went there and did a, like a road trip for my honeymoon and it has to be the most consistently beautiful place I've ever seen. It's like, usually you go on a road trip and we were there for like almost four weeks. um a four-week road trip through like california you pass by some armpits you know like some places just drive keep going let's get to stuff and in new zealand it was like you know such diverse environments just every couple hours and um stunningly beautiful nature and the the roads kind of are designed for enjoying it so there's all these little signs like this little hike and viewpoint like all along so you'd stop what we had to do is like once we got used to the view and stopped kind of appreciating it we'd be like the hike break we need to get out of the car and get back because it was just like so stunning everywhere yeah so that one really blew my mind nature-wise
- Speaker #1
i'd say yeah we used to live there for a year i think we do think most days where did you live i lived in wellington okay Yeah. Because it's on the base of the North Island, but you can get a ferry across to the South, right? So it's quite a place to be.
- Speaker #0
We were there for, I think, just a couple of days before hopping over to the South Island.
- Speaker #1
I do love that city. God, yeah. I think I shared a meme the other day about New Zealand about said something like most days we think or we tell people we're okay, but actually we're just thinking about getting a flight to New Zealand tomorrow. I think that's pretty true. I think as a place, incredible. yeah kind of do miss it quite a lot yeah okay time to go back yeah yeah yeah it's just a little bit it's bad timing unfortunately for us because we got permanent residency in canada but i think if we went to canada first then new zealand obviously it would have been new zealand yeah i think do i prefer it to canada maybe i do i don't know background to ecuador and argentina because you live there um what are some like the key traits that you need to maybe like adapt to life in those countries Or similar countries to those where it's different language maybe and a different way of doing things?
- Speaker #0
So, you know, those two were very different. We'll start with Ecuador. I lived in a town called Loja, which is in the Andes Mountains. It's kind of close to Peru, but it's not one of the go-to spots that people visit. And... It's a university town. So even though it was small, it still felt a little bit bigger, but not a lot of people spoke English there. And so I would say. you know, considering studying a year in Barcelona and then taking Spanish classes in high school and in college, truly where I learned Spanish is there in the several months that I lived there. Cause it was like, if I want to talk, learn Spanish or get good at like gestures. And I did like, I'm really good at charades experiences. Um, but I ended up renting a room from this older couple that were empty nesters. And I was hesitant to rent a room. I really wanted my own place because when I had done a homestay in France, I had two different host families and it was not great experiences. Like I had to switch the first one. And so I was like, I don't want to do that. I just want to have my own place. But this is pre Airbnb. And like at the time. Google Maps hadn't mapped out Loja. Like, so it was like, yeah, and this was, this was 2012. It was just kind of, you know, it was right before everything really shifted in that aspect of travel. And so I talked to this, basically the whole reason I went there is I was talking with my aunt and I was saying, I really, really want to go to South America and like learn Spanish and explore. And she's like, well. I work with someone whose cousin lives in Ecuador. Maybe I can connect you guys. And I was like, let's do it. And he happened to be the dean at this university. So we wrote each other. And he's like, if you get down here, we can create like an internship or something for you at the university. And I'm like, all right, if you're serious, I'm coming. So through him, I was able to find this family who was willing to rent the room. And I- I think so one of the hard things to adjust to, and it was just changing my conditioning, and that is learning how to accept genuine hospitality. Like they were so kind and so welcoming. And I think like not all places are like this. in the U.S. and not all people are like this but for the most part like this the American culture generally it's like we're not we're not known to be like super super hospitable like in like Latin cultures here um and a lot of times my experience was like if someone offers you something or maybe offers help it's kind of like they always remember it and almost expect something in return.
- Speaker #1
Yeah.
- Speaker #0
And there's just that vibe. And when I was there, people would offer to help. And I'd be like, no, no, no, no, no. And it was almost like insulting to them that I wouldn't accept their help. And then it took a while, but I finally started to. And it shifted something in me. And I got to see like... how amazing it is when I offer someone something or some help or whatever. And I do it just for the intention of giving, Oh, it feels so good when people accept that, you know? And so that was, that was a big shift for me to, to accept that that was a cultural thing. Like so many people and like the first day I moved into this, this couple's house, it was a Friday and they had a party. weekly family meals where their kids and their grandkids came over for a Friday lunch. And I had just walked into my room and put down my luggage and they were like, you know, through gestures and stuff like, yeah, we're, we're having lunch. Like, do you want to join? And I was like, Oh no, no, I don't want to interrupt. And they insisted. And then from then on out, I was invited to their family lunch every single week. And like, we've stayed in contact. They've, they've so. that was just that was very different and so many people I met were just so eager to help.
- Speaker #1
Argentina I guess it must have the same sort of welcoming culture right surely?
- Speaker #0
Yes but it it felt a bit like yeah have you been there before?
- Speaker #1
I have been to the north yeah Salta and Iguazu Falls yeah.
- Speaker #0
Okay yeah so um in Buenos Aires it is like a huge city and it does kind of have a a bit of a european feel to it and that makes sense so many people immigrated from here yeah there but it it did it did feel a bit more like big cities so like once you got to know people yes they'd be eager to help but it wasn't as much like like Ecuador, like, please, please let me help. So it was a bit different. It definitely felt more fast paced. But again, met some really wonderful people there that I still stay in contact with.
- Speaker #1
For these travels, how do you explain these to your friends at home? Like, how do you, or do you struggle with people maybe not being interested actually, even though not much or asking many questions? How do you navigate that?
- Speaker #0
Yes, both. depends on the people like I was younger uh like in a lot of the travels you know I'd notice certain certain friends or whoever just would kind of be like oh like here we go again especially like also like the planning and the excitement of where I'm going and and then returning and telling people about it but I don't know like just a lot of those friendships faded And now I'm surrounded by a lot of people who like just really amazing friends who we share our wins just as much as our struggles.
- Speaker #1
Nice.
- Speaker #0
And so my friends know that like this is what really lights me up. And so when you care about something, you want to hear about what lights them up. And so right now, people are eager, eager to listen. And some places are. hard to describe uh some experiences it's kind of like i don't know you have to you have to be there but you just do the best you can and sometimes i can see that it's not really translating well um but i i just i i just tried to do my best like i i love words that's why i'm a writer but unfortunately like mom brain has ruined my brain for thinking of words um But I just like an example is I went to Cuba in 2017. It was right after Americans were able to go again, but you still had to get like special visas and permits to be able to go legally. And we were there for 10 days. And it was the first time since the Internet became prominent in my life that I went for. that length of time without it at all. Because we did the people to people visa or permit, I forget what it was called. And so you stayed in these homestays while you were there. And very few places had internet, except for like, a lot of these like really big hotels. And it was just a really wild experience. And I went with a friend, the Amber, she was like my travel friend, the same one that I've mentioned before. and then two of her friends. And we noticed that like the first couple days, we kept like pulling out our phones, like,
- Speaker #1
yeah,
- Speaker #0
notifications. And then once we got that out of our system, we just started to, like, it's like we could breathe easier. And we noticed so much like, we were present without trying to be and saw that so many of the people there, same thing like You'd go into like a plaza or something and see just people sitting around on benches, engaging with each other. Or like if a guy was there by himself, he'd just be sitting there like looking around, observing. And like nowadays and back then here where I live, it's like everyone, if there's any downtime, you're being productive or just looking on your phone. Yeah. There it was like if there's downtime, you're looking around or talking to people. And to. to see that it was just so refreshing and you'd be like walking down the street and it just felt like cuba was like laughter and and people talking and enjoying life and then you'd walk past one of these like big hotels and it almost felt like someone turned down the volume of cuba and like everything went cold because you just see people huddled up looking down at their screens because there was like wi-fi extending out sure And then you just like keep walking past and you'd be like, it's crazy. It's like tough in it.
- Speaker #1
Yeah. Yeah.
- Speaker #0
Their body's here, but their mind is in another place. And so during that time, Fidel Castro actually passed away. Like we were there for a week and then he passed away. And then like the remaining time, it was a much different experience because the country went into mourning. Yeah. But we came back to the U.S. and. it was like reverse culture shock you know we walked through the airport and like the like there was you know all of the the bars had tvs above it and people were sitting at the bars with their laptops out looking at their phones and and like the tvs had like news it was like felt like so much stuff, like trying to grab at your attention. And it was just such a weird feeling. And I just remember trying to describe the whole experience to friends. And it was hard to put into words. They'd be like, oh my gosh, you were there when Fidel Castro passed away? What was that like? And I was like, I don't know how to describe it because the whole experience was just so different.
- Speaker #1
And Cuba is an interesting country, isn't it, for Americans? Because you hear, obviously read or hear so much about it and the history. So I wonder if people in America have that preconceived idea about Cuba.
- Speaker #0
I think so, about so many places.
- Speaker #1
Oh, true, yeah.
- Speaker #0
Yeah, but especially Cuba. And I know like a lot has changed just in the few years that I've been, so.
- Speaker #1
Yeah, I think we're going in April. That's our little trip in April, yeah. And I do know because I've spoken to... a cuban american uh a podcast event actually a few weeks ago it's coming on on the podcast and we talked for an hour 45 minutes about cuba right and it's just i can't wait to go because i think you're right i'm actually fully expecting not to be on my phone which is quite a nice relief because it because the internet is not really as uh available as what you think maybe it's more available now than when you went um but i don't think it's still gonna be easy right and but i'm just looking forward to not having that to go off and just really soak it in
- Speaker #0
It's really nice. Do you know which cities are you going to?
- Speaker #1
Well, we've got two weeks and obviously Havana is going to be one of them. So I'm not sure where to go after that for a week or 10 days. Still deciding. I've got a few more questions left before we get to the quickfire travel questions to finish the episode. I've got a point here about being creative because we're both creatives. You write a book. I'm actually writing a book, but also doing this podcast. So how do you keep creative in the modern day? Because obviously you've done your travels, you still go travel, you've got kids. How do you keep that going? Because it's key, right? It's crucial. You need that, I guess, arrow to escape just to write or podcast or whatever you do. So how do you keep that going?
- Speaker #0
Well, James, that was like the perfect segue based on what we just talked about. It's what I found is creating that space for presence, like Cuba forced that on me during those 10 days. And my like, my mind was like, just going nuts with all these observations and thoughts and curiosities and creating time for that and it's really hard to do nowadays especially like culturally we don't make time for nothing quote-unquote you know for just being we fill every space at least like where we're where I am in California maybe not so much in South Lake Tahoe where I used to live absolutely it's like you like you're not living unless you're productive and to be productive you need to be like listening to something or doing something not just with your thoughts and like I just what I noticed a while ago is like I'd be like there's and also there's so much great content out there like podcasts and audio books and books and shows and like so much stuff like that I do want to you know, read or listen to. But what I noticed is that I would like take my dog, I have a golden retriever named Donut. I was taking him on a walk and like, I'd pop in my headphones and listen to a podcast or an audio book and felt good because I was multitasking and learning. But I realized that like throughout my day working and just going through the routine. There's not a lot of time where I don't have any form of distraction and distraction of like even email or work or anything. The maybe like the shower. I think about it. All of us even look at our phones when we're on the toilet. Like their time to just be with your thoughts. And like, I, I'm, I was born in 1985. So I'm one of those people who kind of like, First chunk of my life, no internet. Second chunk, yes. I'm grateful for that because, like, I was a kid. I hated being bored. But I value it because boredom is the gateway to curiosity, wonder, and creativity. And so I started to try to, some walks I would listen to stuff just because I enjoy it. You know, it makes me happy and I like learning and listening to things. Other walks, I started to, you know, at least once a week, just no, no listening to anything. And so go with my dog and. walk around. And I noticed in the very beginning when I started doing this, I was like, oh my gosh, like, this is so boring. And then I have all these weird thoughts and I'd be like, this isn't like creative inspiration. Like these are just like, oh, I wonder what that is. Or like, and, but doing it enough, it, it opens the door. It creates a bit of space for you to not just think about, oh, what's next or thinking about the past of, of. how you could have done things differently or better but instead like have a bit of time to think about what you can make like what's your heart telling you to make and you have you have to schedule time for that nowadays you can't just wait for it to happen yeah
- Speaker #1
and I think for us we're in that weird age where we do remember the tape days you might listen to music on tape and no internet and you just go outside because what you're gonna do inside then then switches really quickly doesn't it and goes into this sort of social media smartphone era in quite a short space of time but i think we both traveled in pre-smartphone times as well which is a different type of travel i find unless you're in somewhere like cuba where it's kind of forced but having no internet and no phone and no way of knowing when you're going that they're kind of some of the best stories really because you just get lost exactly i was going to say i got lost all the time just with the way that you went
- Speaker #0
Then I got it especially last. Oh, he's found again. Here I am.
- Speaker #1
There you go. I'll tell you what's interesting for you is obviously your kids, right? How are you going to install those moments of boredom where they need that, right? They can't be fully stimulated all the time. For anyone who's got kids, I'd imagine, because I think you need boredom to appreciate those things that you said. But it's so easy, isn't it, just to probably give them an iPad or get them to watch TV. I don't know how you straddle that.
- Speaker #0
I saw, well... Well... you know luckily like where i live the community is very outdoorsy and active that's good so that that plays a part like peer group but i saw this uh this meme so irony that i saw it like on instagram yeah of course yeah like these two is this little cartoon and it had these two moms with their kids sitting on a bench and one of the kids was just on an ipad And the mom next to that kid was holding her phone and she turned next to the mom who was reading a book with her kid reading a book. And she was like, how do you get your kid to read? And it's like, the thing is like, uh, I just have to lead by example and create space for boredom too. Cause that's what they're going to see. If I'm always on my phone, always distracted, I I'm the role model for these years. So I need to. to you know lead by example yeah i guess is there anything you can do okay um we're gonna circle back around to your book and where we can find you so um you have a newsletter is that right um where can people sign up for that uh on my website katmedina.com and it's kat with a k and uh yeah i send out a newsletter once a month and it's very short and sweet and just has five tips or things to think about to hopefully you gets you thinking about ways to feel more joy.
- Speaker #1
And then talking of joy, where can people find your book?
- Speaker #0
All the usual places, Amazon, Barnes and Noble, but I recommend trying to find it at your local independent bookstore or bookshop.org, which is the online way to purchase through indie bookstores. And if your indie doesn't have it, you can just request it from them.
- Speaker #1
Okay. And talking of books, actually, do you have a recommendation? One fiction, one nonfiction, maybe? that you like or are currently reading?
- Speaker #0
So what comes to mind is the one that I just read is called The Women by Kristen Hanna. And it's historical fiction and written about the women who served in the Vietnam War as nurses and were experienced during and after. And it was just one of those books where you finish it and you go, shit, now what am I going to read?
- Speaker #1
Okay. It's called The Women, right? Okay.
- Speaker #0
Yeah. By Kristen and all of her stuff's great. Yeah. And then nonfiction. Well, the one that I'm reading right now is called good inside and it's a parenting book and it's, you know what, even though it's a parenting book, it's a book about relationships. So I found it, I found it helpful to use regardless of whether it's like husband or family or with my kids.
- Speaker #1
Okay. And we can find you on your website. Do you have social media as well?
- Speaker #0
Yeah, on Instagram, I'm Kat Medina Ryder. And that's Kat with a K.
- Speaker #1
Cool. I'll put that in the show notes so people can click on that. And my last question before the quickfire travel questions, what's coming up for 2025? Or the rest of 2024 for travel?
- Speaker #0
So we just got back from the Norway and Denmark trip. And now is the exciting time where I get to plan. So I think is is fully decided yet. But I feel like Every other year, I like to end up back in either South America or Central America. So we're going to give you continent.
- Speaker #1
Okay, fair enough. Yeah, I'm off to Central America in November. So I'm going to El Salvador, which will be pretty cool.
- Speaker #0
See, that was really high on my list. Okay.
- Speaker #1
I don't know how it goes.
- Speaker #0
Yeah, I'd love to hear about it. Because I actually was just chatting with someone who's from there. And I was like, oh, yes, I want to go there. Yeah, that'll be amazing.
- Speaker #1
Yeah. Okay, cool. We're going to finish. with some quickfire travel questions these are normally some of your favorite things you've seen on your travels forever so it could be from the early days to now and i'm gonna kick off with it's travel question time three favorite countries colombia new zealand yeah and nepal okay god you got some of mine in there and what about three countries next on your hit list you might mention one already there
- Speaker #0
but yeah um well let's see Kenya, Mongolia,
- Speaker #1
Pakistan. Okay and if you could move somewhere tomorrow for a year to live in a different country where are you going to live?
- Speaker #0
I want to live in so many different spots I kind of want to live in New Zealand for a bit especially after talking you about it.
- Speaker #1
Got to yeah okay and are you a sunrise or sunset person? sunrise oh the first in a while good to hear it okay and what about if you could sit anywhere in any place in the world with a cup of coffee and watch the world go by where are you going to sit that is one of my favorite things to do when i travel actually 100 yeah journal yeah cafe i that is like my favorite activity el salvador i'll be sitting in san salvador somewhere for two hours probably reading and just watching the world can't wait yes yeah that is the best um
- Speaker #0
hmm I really enjoyed doing that in Argentina because it was just like so much to so such great people watching but then I also like there's something special about like the the quintessential European cafes too like France or Spain like Sevilla or something I yeah I'm going to give you a couple different answers and
- Speaker #1
Do you have a favourite country for coffee? Like drinking it?
- Speaker #0
Guatemala, I think, actually.
- Speaker #1
Oh, that's part of my trip in November. Okay. What about if you could pick three favourite cuisines that you like worldwide?
- Speaker #0
Mexican food and Italian food and... Ecuadorian food.
- Speaker #1
Oh, interesting. Not had that before. Okay. And what about somewhere that is the best place for budgeting? So where does a dollar go the furthest?
- Speaker #0
I think from the places I've been, Bolivia and I like Myanmar also.
- Speaker #1
Oh, Myanmar is a crazy, crazy cheap. Okay. And. What about a favorite landmark? Can be nature or man-made.
- Speaker #0
Let's see. You know, I think this is just on my mind because of the recent trip, but fjords, like I first went to Milford Sound and I had never seen anything like that before. And then that's what kind of led to the idea of like, okay, where can I see more fjords? And so the Norway trip kind of came out of that. So I'm going to say.
- Speaker #1
the fjords fair enough in multiple countries this might be the same answer for next question what about three places where you love to do a road trip
- Speaker #0
Canada which I did and loved it and it's like I waited so long to go there because I just felt like I heard oh it's kind of like the US and it's so close to the US and it just didn't feel different enough I've been three or four times now and I just love it. It's so beautiful. So I would go back and do another road trip there for sure.
- Speaker #1
Okay. And the last question is going to be, what words of advice or wisdom can you give someone who's been a bit nervous about going to travel either locally or even internationally to a new culture?
- Speaker #0
Curiosity, kindness, and empathy can remedy any situation. And I feel like when you travel and you have that intention to focus on those three things, like... life kind of favors you and the right people will come into contact with you when needed if there's trouble or if there's just like some random adventure or something I just feel like if you're open and you and you focus on those three things you're
- Speaker #1
gonna be okay and if you aren't you're gonna have a really amazing story that's brilliant love that ending okay Kat thanks for coming to the podcast love hearing your stories I think there's loads more to hear about for that. But a lot of them are in your book, The Joys of Jet Lag. So I'm going to look forward to getting through those, through this book. So it's amazing. I'll put this in the show notes so people can click and have a look. And thanks for making time. Appreciate you coming on.
- Speaker #0
Thank you so much. It was a lot of fun.
- Speaker #1
Thank you. Cheers. Thanks for tuning in to the podcast episode today. If you've been inspired by today's chat and want to book some travel, if you head to the show notes, you'll see some affiliate links below, which helps support this podcast. You'll find Skyscanner to book your flight. You'll find Booking.com to book that accommodation. Want to stay in a super cool hostel? You'll see Hostelworld down there too. You'll find Revolut to get your travel card sorted. Click the GigSky link to get your eSIM ready for your trip. And more importantly, you'll find Safety Wing Insurance to get that travel insurance for your trip. There are many more to check out. So when you click that link and book your product, a small commission goes towards me and the Wigging It Travel podcast. Thank you in advance and enjoy your travels.
