Caring for the Poor: The True Role of Geneva’s Hospitals in the Reformation Era | Really Calvin, is this an ideal life? A historical podcast.

Description

Welcome to Really Calvin, is this an ideal life? A historical podcast. In today’s episode, we dive into some fascinating excerpts from a French academic study that takes a deep dive into the history of Geneva’s "hospitals" during the Reformation—a time when things were changing faster than you can say “John Calvin.”

Using a treasure trove of Geneva’s archives—think dusty Council records, financial ledgers, and notarial documents—the author pieces together the puzzle of how many hospices there were, where they were located, and how they actually worked before and during this whirlwind of religious and political upheaval.

Along the way, the study clears up a few historical mix-ups (because even historians need to fact-check), and gives us a clear picture of how Geneva’s social care system was reshaped to deal with the new Protestant reality. So, buckle up as we explore how caring for the poor, the local bourgeois, and weary travelers got a serious makeover in 16th-century Geneva—no miracle potions required!

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This historical popularization podcast is developed as part of the interdisciplinary project entitled "A semantic and multilingual online edition of the Registers of the Council of Geneva / 1545-1550" (RCnum) and developed by the University of Geneva (UNIGE), as part of funding from the Swiss National Scientific Research Fund (SNSF). For more information: https://www.unige.ch/registresconseilge/en.

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Transcription

Speaker #0
You know, when we think about Geneva around the time of the Reformation, 16th century, Calvin often comes to mind, right? Big debates.
Speaker #1
Yeah. The theological shifts.
Speaker #0
But what about like the everyday stuff, the city's institutions? Today, we're diving into Geneva's hospitals during that transition. It's, well, it's pretty fascinating.
Speaker #1
It really is. And often overlooked, I think. These places were changing dramatically. Our main guide here is Christophe Chazalon's work on the hospitals at this turning point.
Speaker #0
Right. Les hôpitaux de Genève au tournant de la Réformation.
Speaker #1
Exactly. And we'll bring in some context from broader medieval studies, too, like Dupar-Kerman, just to paint a picture.
Speaker #0
OK, so the mission today is to sort of untangle this history of the hospitals right before and during the early Reformation. It can get a bit confusing.
Speaker #1
It definitely can.
Speaker #0
So first off, the sheer number of hospitals. I pictured maybe one or two, you know.
Speaker #1
Yeah, that's a common thought. But the sources, like Chaponnier and Sode, they suggest... maybe two before the mid-1300s. Okay. But then, almost boom, three more pop up pretty much simultaneously, which probably points to, you know, population growth, maybe more foreigners coming in.
Speaker #0
And it didn't stop there, did it?
Speaker #1
No. In the 15th century, another two were founded, thanks to a generous citizen. Wow.
Speaker #0
So by 1535, right when things are really heating up with the Reformation?
Speaker #1
We're looking at at least nine hospitals under Geneva's control. Some earlier accounts said seven, but Chazalon finds more.
Speaker #0
Including a tenth one?
Speaker #1
Yes, the Opel de Temple, also called Saint-Jean de Jerusalem. It was down in Ovives.
Speaker #0
Okay, so way more than you'd initially guess.
Speaker #1
Definitely. And another thing to keep in mind, something Chazalon stresses is the names. They weren't fixed. Ah,
Speaker #0
that's bound to cause confusion.
Speaker #1
Exactly. A single hospital might have two, three, even more names, depending on the benefactor or the time period. It makes tracking them tricky.
Speaker #0
Right. So let's maybe look at a few key ones before everything got centralized into the Hopital General.
Speaker #1
Good idea. Where should we start? How about the Coupe de Notre-Dame de Pont-du-Rhône, also called Saint-Gervais?
Speaker #0
Okay, where was that one?
Speaker #1
En route de la Cité. Now, it was linked in name to the Chapelle de Notre-Dame de Pont-du-Rhône.
Speaker #0
The chapel.
Speaker #1
Right, they weren't attached. Often confused, though.
Speaker #0
And the chapel itself has a history?
Speaker #1
Oh, yeah. Possibly an old defensive tower, 11th, 13th century, near the bridge. Weird orientation, too, not facing east. Later, wealthy Italians, Florentines, revamped it, became the Chapelle de Florentin.
Speaker #0
But it didn't survive.
Speaker #1
No, torn down in 1541. City fortifications needed the space. Records show payments for demolition and all that.
Speaker #0
But the hospital itself, it wasn't right there. No,
Speaker #1
this is interesting. It was actually about 60 meters upstream from the famous chapel. Huh.
Speaker #0
So easy to get wrong.
Speaker #1
Very. And after the Reformation, it wasn't needed in the same way, so it was sold off in 1537.
Speaker #0
Okay. What about another big one? Maybe the Hôpital de Notre-Dame et Saint-Georges.
Speaker #1
Ah, yes. Also known as du Borgue de Four or de Saint-Joy or du Boulomier. See the name thing again? Uh-huh.
Speaker #0
Yeah, definitely. Where was this one?
Speaker #1
Rue Verdun, right next to the Sainte-Claire content. And this location is key.
Speaker #0
Why is that?
Speaker #1
Because in November 1535, this is the very spot that became the Hôpital General. Ah.
Speaker #0
Yeah. Okay. The seed of the central hospital.
Speaker #1
Precisely. Its multiple names likely reflect different founders or benefactors, like maybe Mathieu Clarié, Émance Bonjoir, Guillaume Boulomier. The council even had a say in appointing the Hospitallier the manager.
Speaker #0
And it grew over time.
Speaker #1
Yes. There was expansion around it in the mid-15th century, tied into the founding of that Sainte-Claire convent next door. Land donations, purchases. Okay.
Speaker #0
Any others we should quickly mention from before the big merge?
Speaker #1
Well, there was the Hôpital de Saint-Bernard-de-Montju, or Saint-Nicolas, on Rue Saint-Antoine. Its story pre-Reformation is fairly short, sold in 1536 to a peer Tito who built a house there.
Speaker #0
Got it. What about the Hôpital de l'Eucharistie? That one sounds intriguing. Lots of names, too.
Speaker #1
Yes. Also called the François de Versonnais de la Fête Dieu, des pauvres honteux or vergogneux, even Saint-Esprit sometimes, near the Reeve convent.
Speaker #0
And it had a specific purpose.
Speaker #1
It did. Founded in 1434 by François de Vercenay, specifically for the pauvre hontou.
Speaker #0
The shameful poor.
Speaker #1
Exactly. People from, you know, privileged backgrounds who'd fallen on hard times and were ashamed to beg. Managed by a merchant confraternity.
Speaker #0
That's just quite a nuanced approach to poverty, even back then.
Speaker #1
It really does. After the Reformation, the name shifted more towards pauvre vergogneux, but the concept remained for a while.
Speaker #0
So this idea of consolidating hospitals. It wasn't totally new in 1535.
Speaker #1
No, there were earlier attempts, apparently in 1508 and 1531, but they failed. It took the momentum of the Reformation, really.
Speaker #0
For the Grand Conseil to finally decide, OK, we need just two main ones.
Speaker #1
Right. The General Hospital using the Sainte-Claire convent buildings.
Speaker #0
Which was right next to the old Opadal de Notre-Dame et Saint-Georges we mentioned.
Speaker #1
Exactly. And then the plan was to keep Saint-Jacques for the passing poor travelers.
Speaker #0
So what happened to the Femmes-Virgonnes from the Opadal de l'Eucharistie? Did they move straight to the General Hospital?
Speaker #1
Well, that was the plan in 1536. But it seems they didn't move immediately. Oh. Records show they were still in their original hospital until at least January 1540. The transition wasn't always instant.
Speaker #0
So gradual changes.
Speaker #1
Yeah. Eventually, their hospital was sold in June 1541, and the remaining women were moved then.
Speaker #0
And what about the Opital de Saint-Antoine et Saint-Sebastien near La Madeleine, also founded by Versanet?
Speaker #1
That one, too, seems to have had a gradual phase-out. There's evidence of repairs happening in 1539-1540.
Speaker #0
So still in use after the main decision?
Speaker #1
Apparently. And people were even renting rooms there between 1539 and 1542. So not a sudden closure, more of a winding down.
Speaker #0
It paints a complex picture, doesn't it? All these different places, different purposes slowly being brought together.
Speaker #1
Absolutely. It shows the existing social fabric before the Reformation reshaped it.
Speaker #0
So late 1535, the big decision, create the Opital General, consolidate.
Speaker #1
Yes. And as we said, Saint-Jacques-du-Pont-d'Orone was initially earmarked for travelers, though Another hospital seems to have played that role, too, at least for a time.
Speaker #0
Which one was that?
Speaker #1
The Opel de la Trinité, which got renamed Opel de Saint-Esprit after the Reformation.
Speaker #0
Okay, tell me about that one.
Speaker #1
Founded around the mid-15th century, likely by the Conferie de la Saint-Trinité. Though there's a mention of an earlier donation back in 1360.
Speaker #0
But after the Reformation.
Speaker #1
It was renamed Saint-Esprit. And it definitely continued to function. We see records of people being housed there at the city's expense, like Jacques Chapuis.
Speaker #0
So maybe it took over that role for passing poor instead of Saint-Jacques.
Speaker #1
It seems possible, or at least shared it. They even leased out its chapel for a while before deciding in 1550 to renovate the chapel specifically to house passing poor.
Speaker #0
But it didn't last forever.
Speaker #1
No, it was sold off just two years later, in 1552.
Speaker #0
Why sell it if they'd just renovated part of it?
Speaker #1
Well, Cheslon floats the idea that maybe the city needed the money. Or perhaps the Hopital General needed more space itself for the growing number of poor. This is also the period after Calvin's influence on poor relief really solidifies.
Speaker #0
Ah, interesting link. So political and religious shifts influencing property decisions.
Speaker #1
Plausibly, yes.
Speaker #0
And Saint-Jacques-du-Pont-de-Rhône, the one originally planned for travelers, what happened there?
Speaker #1
That one had been around since 1359, near the old bridge gate. But despite the initial plan,
Speaker #0
It got repurposed.
Speaker #1
Completely. By 1543, it had become the Geneva Mint.
Speaker #0
The Mint. Okay, that's a definite change of function.
Speaker #1
Shows the city adapting its assets, doesn't it?
Speaker #0
It does. We should probably also mention the Bois de Toutoum.
Speaker #1
Ah, the alms box. Yes, crucial.
Speaker #0
This is the main channel for public charity, wasn't it? Collections and churches, etc.
Speaker #1
Exactly. Throughout the city and nearby areas. And importantly, after the Reformation, the properties and funds associated with this box likely got folded into supporting the new Hôpital General.
Speaker #0
So a key source of funding for the centralized system.
Speaker #1
Very likely. Right. And Hôpital General also took immediate responsibility for orphans and some illegitimate children. Centralization in action.
Speaker #0
Okay, one more major institution, the plague hospital. Hôpital de Notre-Dame de la Miséricorde.
Speaker #1
Or Hôpital de Peste Ferrée. A grim necessity. This one was relatively newer, late 15th century.
Speaker #0
Founded after a vow.
Speaker #1
Yes, the syndics, the city magistrates, vowed in 1469, during an outbreak, to build one out in Plain Palais.
Speaker #0
Was it always open?
Speaker #1
No, only activated when the plague hit. But after the Reformation, strict rules came in, like mandatory burials in its cemetery during outbreaks.
Speaker #0
Must have been incredibly difficult to run.
Speaker #1
Unimaginably. Staffing was a nightmare. Records show immense difficulty keeping hospitaliers, barbers who acted as surgeons, and even... ministers ministers were reluctant oh yes there's a famous uh dramatic episode where ministers basically refused to go citing various reasons even sebastian castellio was considered but didn't end up going wow they eventually ordained a minister specifically for the plague hospital pierre blanchet but he caught the plague almost immediately and died just horrific shows the sheer terror the plague inspired absolutely they had ordinances for running the place based on older models But managing it during an outbreak was just chaos and survival.
Speaker #0
A stark reminder of the realities of the time.
Speaker #1
Definitely puts things in perspective.
Speaker #0
Briefly, there were others too, right? Like the Temple Hospital.
Speaker #1
Yes, the Hôpital du Temple, or Saint-Jean-de-Jerusalem in Auviv. Origins with the Knights Templar, then the Hospitallers.
Speaker #0
Did it function as a hospital right up to the Reformation?
Speaker #1
Probably not really. By the 15th century, it seems it was more of a religious and administrative center for their lands. Its church outside the walls was destroyed in 1534 during political tensions.
Speaker #0
And after the Reformation?
Speaker #1
Disputes between Geneva and Bern over its properties and tithes. It wasn't really an active hospital then.
Speaker #0
And there was one in Marlios. Saint-Jacques-les-Majeurs is Saint-Antoine-l'Ermite.
Speaker #1
Right. Some thought its fate was unknown after 1539. But Chazlon shows the Geneva Council was still involved. ordering inspections in the 1540s. Its chapel fell into ruin later, but has actually been restored.
Speaker #0
Okay. And finally, the maladiers, leprosy hospitals.
Speaker #1
Yes, older institutions. Carouge and Chayne. Lepers had strict rules, confinement. After the Reformation, responsibility was split. Geneva managed Carouge. Bern managed Chayne.
Speaker #0
Were they full?
Speaker #1
Often kept closed, actually, to save money, as there weren't many lepers. There were disputes about admitting new ones in the late 1530s, early 1540s. Shows the practical difficulties.
Speaker #0
Right. So wrapping this up, it's clear the Reformation wasn't just about theology in Geneva. It profoundly reshaped the city's social welfare system.
Speaker #1
Absolutely. You go from this diverse, sometimes confusing landscape of many small, specialized institutions.
Speaker #0
Each with its own story, its own founders.
Speaker #1
To a much more centralized approach, focused on the whole general. But it wasn't always a clean sudden break.
Speaker #0
No, we saw that gradual change, the continued use of some older places for a time.
Speaker #1
And behind all these institutional shifts are, you know, human stories. The people who founded these places, the Paul Verlaine II, the plague victims, the staff struggling in horrific conditions.
Speaker #0
It really makes you think about how those big religious and political changes directly impacted the most vulnerable people on the ground, how care was actually delivered.
Speaker #1
Yeah, what does this shift tell us about the priorities of the time, the values?
Speaker #0
Maybe a final thought for our listeners. How might the consolidation under the Huppertal general, perhaps influenced by figures like Calvin, have changed the experience of being poor or sick in Geneva? Was it better, worse, just different? Something to ponder?
Speaker #1
Definitely. Comparing it to how other cities handled similar changes during the Reformation could be revealing, too.

About Really Calvin, is this an ideal life? A historical podcast.

Step into the cobblestone streets of 16th-century Geneva, where faith, politics, and daily life collide in the shadow of John Calvin's influential reforms. This podcast that we could have called "Echoes of Reformation: Calvin's Geneva Unveiled" peels back the layers of history to reveal a city in transformation, bringing you face-to-face with the characters, controversies, and cultural shifts that defined an era.

Join historian Dr. Christophe Chazalon as he unearths hidden gems from the "Registers of the Council of Geneva," breathing life into forgotten stories and challenging long-held assumptions. From heated theological debates to the whispers of everyday citizens, each episode offers a vivid, immersive journey into the heart of the Reformation.

Discover:

- The human side of John Calvin beyond the pulpit

- Power struggles and political intrigue in the Genevan council chambers

- How ordinary people navigated the tumultuous waters of religious change

- Surprising facts that rewrite our understanding of this pivotal period

Whether you're a history buff, a theology enthusiast, or simply curious about the forces that shaped our modern world, "Echoes of Reformation" delivers a fresh, engaging look at a city and a movement that changed the course of history. Subscribe now and let the echoes of the past resonate in your present!

We're passionate about bringing the history of Calvin's Geneva to life. Join the conversation and access exclusive documents, episode transcripts, and more on my website at https://geneva16th.org/ !

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

About Really Calvin, is this an ideal life? A historical podcast.

Discover:

- The human side of John Calvin beyond the pulpit

- Power struggles and political intrigue in the Genevan council chambers

- How ordinary people navigated the tumultuous waters of religious change

- Surprising facts that rewrite our understanding of this pivotal period

We're passionate about bringing the history of Calvin's Geneva to life. Join the conversation and access exclusive documents, episode transcripts, and more on my website at https://geneva16th.org/ !

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Description

***********

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Transcription

Speaker #0
You know, when we think about Geneva around the time of the Reformation, 16th century, Calvin often comes to mind, right? Big debates.
Speaker #1
Yeah. The theological shifts.
Speaker #0
But what about like the everyday stuff, the city's institutions? Today, we're diving into Geneva's hospitals during that transition. It's, well, it's pretty fascinating.
Speaker #1
It really is. And often overlooked, I think. These places were changing dramatically. Our main guide here is Christophe Chazalon's work on the hospitals at this turning point.
Speaker #0
Right. Les hôpitaux de Genève au tournant de la Réformation.
Speaker #1
Exactly. And we'll bring in some context from broader medieval studies, too, like Dupar-Kerman, just to paint a picture.
Speaker #0
OK, so the mission today is to sort of untangle this history of the hospitals right before and during the early Reformation. It can get a bit confusing.
Speaker #1
It definitely can.
Speaker #0
So first off, the sheer number of hospitals. I pictured maybe one or two, you know.
Speaker #1
Yeah, that's a common thought. But the sources, like Chaponnier and Sode, they suggest... maybe two before the mid-1300s. Okay. But then, almost boom, three more pop up pretty much simultaneously, which probably points to, you know, population growth, maybe more foreigners coming in.
Speaker #0
And it didn't stop there, did it?
Speaker #1
No. In the 15th century, another two were founded, thanks to a generous citizen. Wow.
Speaker #0
So by 1535, right when things are really heating up with the Reformation?
Speaker #1
We're looking at at least nine hospitals under Geneva's control. Some earlier accounts said seven, but Chazalon finds more.
Speaker #0
Including a tenth one?
Speaker #1
Yes, the Opel de Temple, also called Saint-Jean de Jerusalem. It was down in Ovives.
Speaker #0
Okay, so way more than you'd initially guess.
Speaker #1
Definitely. And another thing to keep in mind, something Chazalon stresses is the names. They weren't fixed. Ah,
Speaker #0
that's bound to cause confusion.
Speaker #1
Exactly. A single hospital might have two, three, even more names, depending on the benefactor or the time period. It makes tracking them tricky.
Speaker #0
Right. So let's maybe look at a few key ones before everything got centralized into the Hopital General.
Speaker #1
Good idea. Where should we start? How about the Coupe de Notre-Dame de Pont-du-Rhône, also called Saint-Gervais?
Speaker #0
Okay, where was that one?
Speaker #1
En route de la Cité. Now, it was linked in name to the Chapelle de Notre-Dame de Pont-du-Rhône.
Speaker #0
The chapel.
Speaker #1
Right, they weren't attached. Often confused, though.
Speaker #0
And the chapel itself has a history?
Speaker #1
Oh, yeah. Possibly an old defensive tower, 11th, 13th century, near the bridge. Weird orientation, too, not facing east. Later, wealthy Italians, Florentines, revamped it, became the Chapelle de Florentin.
Speaker #0
But it didn't survive.
Speaker #1
No, torn down in 1541. City fortifications needed the space. Records show payments for demolition and all that.
Speaker #0
But the hospital itself, it wasn't right there. No,
Speaker #1
this is interesting. It was actually about 60 meters upstream from the famous chapel. Huh.
Speaker #0
So easy to get wrong.
Speaker #1
Very. And after the Reformation, it wasn't needed in the same way, so it was sold off in 1537.
Speaker #0
Okay. What about another big one? Maybe the Hôpital de Notre-Dame et Saint-Georges.
Speaker #1
Ah, yes. Also known as du Borgue de Four or de Saint-Joy or du Boulomier. See the name thing again? Uh-huh.
Speaker #0
Yeah, definitely. Where was this one?
Speaker #1
Rue Verdun, right next to the Sainte-Claire content. And this location is key.
Speaker #0
Why is that?
Speaker #1
Because in November 1535, this is the very spot that became the Hôpital General. Ah.
Speaker #0
Yeah. Okay. The seed of the central hospital.
Speaker #1
Precisely. Its multiple names likely reflect different founders or benefactors, like maybe Mathieu Clarié, Émance Bonjoir, Guillaume Boulomier. The council even had a say in appointing the Hospitallier the manager.
Speaker #0
And it grew over time.
Speaker #1
Yes. There was expansion around it in the mid-15th century, tied into the founding of that Sainte-Claire convent next door. Land donations, purchases. Okay.
Speaker #0
Any others we should quickly mention from before the big merge?
Speaker #1
Well, there was the Hôpital de Saint-Bernard-de-Montju, or Saint-Nicolas, on Rue Saint-Antoine. Its story pre-Reformation is fairly short, sold in 1536 to a peer Tito who built a house there.
Speaker #0
Got it. What about the Hôpital de l'Eucharistie? That one sounds intriguing. Lots of names, too.
Speaker #1
Yes. Also called the François de Versonnais de la Fête Dieu, des pauvres honteux or vergogneux, even Saint-Esprit sometimes, near the Reeve convent.
Speaker #0
And it had a specific purpose.
Speaker #1
It did. Founded in 1434 by François de Vercenay, specifically for the pauvre hontou.
Speaker #0
The shameful poor.
Speaker #1
Exactly. People from, you know, privileged backgrounds who'd fallen on hard times and were ashamed to beg. Managed by a merchant confraternity.
Speaker #0
That's just quite a nuanced approach to poverty, even back then.
Speaker #1
It really does. After the Reformation, the name shifted more towards pauvre vergogneux, but the concept remained for a while.
Speaker #0
So this idea of consolidating hospitals. It wasn't totally new in 1535.
Speaker #1
No, there were earlier attempts, apparently in 1508 and 1531, but they failed. It took the momentum of the Reformation, really.
Speaker #0
For the Grand Conseil to finally decide, OK, we need just two main ones.
Speaker #1
Right. The General Hospital using the Sainte-Claire convent buildings.
Speaker #0
Which was right next to the old Opadal de Notre-Dame et Saint-Georges we mentioned.
Speaker #1
Exactly. And then the plan was to keep Saint-Jacques for the passing poor travelers.
Speaker #0
So what happened to the Femmes-Virgonnes from the Opadal de l'Eucharistie? Did they move straight to the General Hospital?
Speaker #1
Well, that was the plan in 1536. But it seems they didn't move immediately. Oh. Records show they were still in their original hospital until at least January 1540. The transition wasn't always instant.
Speaker #0
So gradual changes.
Speaker #1
Yeah. Eventually, their hospital was sold in June 1541, and the remaining women were moved then.
Speaker #0
And what about the Opital de Saint-Antoine et Saint-Sebastien near La Madeleine, also founded by Versanet?
Speaker #1
That one, too, seems to have had a gradual phase-out. There's evidence of repairs happening in 1539-1540.
Speaker #0
So still in use after the main decision?
Speaker #1
Apparently. And people were even renting rooms there between 1539 and 1542. So not a sudden closure, more of a winding down.
Speaker #0
It paints a complex picture, doesn't it? All these different places, different purposes slowly being brought together.
Speaker #1
Absolutely. It shows the existing social fabric before the Reformation reshaped it.
Speaker #0
So late 1535, the big decision, create the Opital General, consolidate.
Speaker #1
Yes. And as we said, Saint-Jacques-du-Pont-d'Orone was initially earmarked for travelers, though Another hospital seems to have played that role, too, at least for a time.
Speaker #0
Which one was that?
Speaker #1
The Opel de la Trinité, which got renamed Opel de Saint-Esprit after the Reformation.
Speaker #0
Okay, tell me about that one.
Speaker #1
Founded around the mid-15th century, likely by the Conferie de la Saint-Trinité. Though there's a mention of an earlier donation back in 1360.
Speaker #0
But after the Reformation.
Speaker #1
It was renamed Saint-Esprit. And it definitely continued to function. We see records of people being housed there at the city's expense, like Jacques Chapuis.
Speaker #0
So maybe it took over that role for passing poor instead of Saint-Jacques.
Speaker #1
It seems possible, or at least shared it. They even leased out its chapel for a while before deciding in 1550 to renovate the chapel specifically to house passing poor.
Speaker #0
But it didn't last forever.
Speaker #1
No, it was sold off just two years later, in 1552.
Speaker #0
Why sell it if they'd just renovated part of it?
Speaker #1
Well, Cheslon floats the idea that maybe the city needed the money. Or perhaps the Hopital General needed more space itself for the growing number of poor. This is also the period after Calvin's influence on poor relief really solidifies.
Speaker #0
Ah, interesting link. So political and religious shifts influencing property decisions.
Speaker #1
Plausibly, yes.
Speaker #0
And Saint-Jacques-du-Pont-de-Rhône, the one originally planned for travelers, what happened there?
Speaker #1
That one had been around since 1359, near the old bridge gate. But despite the initial plan,
Speaker #0
It got repurposed.
Speaker #1
Completely. By 1543, it had become the Geneva Mint.
Speaker #0
The Mint. Okay, that's a definite change of function.
Speaker #1
Shows the city adapting its assets, doesn't it?
Speaker #0
It does. We should probably also mention the Bois de Toutoum.
Speaker #1
Ah, the alms box. Yes, crucial.
Speaker #0
This is the main channel for public charity, wasn't it? Collections and churches, etc.
Speaker #1
Exactly. Throughout the city and nearby areas. And importantly, after the Reformation, the properties and funds associated with this box likely got folded into supporting the new Hôpital General.
Speaker #0
So a key source of funding for the centralized system.
Speaker #1
Very likely. Right. And Hôpital General also took immediate responsibility for orphans and some illegitimate children. Centralization in action.
Speaker #0
Okay, one more major institution, the plague hospital. Hôpital de Notre-Dame de la Miséricorde.
Speaker #1
Or Hôpital de Peste Ferrée. A grim necessity. This one was relatively newer, late 15th century.
Speaker #0
Founded after a vow.
Speaker #1
Yes, the syndics, the city magistrates, vowed in 1469, during an outbreak, to build one out in Plain Palais.
Speaker #0
Was it always open?
Speaker #1
No, only activated when the plague hit. But after the Reformation, strict rules came in, like mandatory burials in its cemetery during outbreaks.
Speaker #0
Must have been incredibly difficult to run.
Speaker #1
Unimaginably. Staffing was a nightmare. Records show immense difficulty keeping hospitaliers, barbers who acted as surgeons, and even... ministers ministers were reluctant oh yes there's a famous uh dramatic episode where ministers basically refused to go citing various reasons even sebastian castellio was considered but didn't end up going wow they eventually ordained a minister specifically for the plague hospital pierre blanchet but he caught the plague almost immediately and died just horrific shows the sheer terror the plague inspired absolutely they had ordinances for running the place based on older models But managing it during an outbreak was just chaos and survival.
Speaker #0
A stark reminder of the realities of the time.
Speaker #1
Definitely puts things in perspective.
Speaker #0
Briefly, there were others too, right? Like the Temple Hospital.
Speaker #1
Yes, the Hôpital du Temple, or Saint-Jean-de-Jerusalem in Auviv. Origins with the Knights Templar, then the Hospitallers.
Speaker #0
Did it function as a hospital right up to the Reformation?
Speaker #1
Probably not really. By the 15th century, it seems it was more of a religious and administrative center for their lands. Its church outside the walls was destroyed in 1534 during political tensions.
Speaker #0
And after the Reformation?
Speaker #1
Disputes between Geneva and Bern over its properties and tithes. It wasn't really an active hospital then.
Speaker #0
And there was one in Marlios. Saint-Jacques-les-Majeurs is Saint-Antoine-l'Ermite.
Speaker #1
Right. Some thought its fate was unknown after 1539. But Chazlon shows the Geneva Council was still involved. ordering inspections in the 1540s. Its chapel fell into ruin later, but has actually been restored.
Speaker #0
Okay. And finally, the maladiers, leprosy hospitals.
Speaker #1
Yes, older institutions. Carouge and Chayne. Lepers had strict rules, confinement. After the Reformation, responsibility was split. Geneva managed Carouge. Bern managed Chayne.
Speaker #0
Were they full?
Speaker #1
Often kept closed, actually, to save money, as there weren't many lepers. There were disputes about admitting new ones in the late 1530s, early 1540s. Shows the practical difficulties.
Speaker #0
Right. So wrapping this up, it's clear the Reformation wasn't just about theology in Geneva. It profoundly reshaped the city's social welfare system.
Speaker #1
Absolutely. You go from this diverse, sometimes confusing landscape of many small, specialized institutions.
Speaker #0
Each with its own story, its own founders.
Speaker #1
To a much more centralized approach, focused on the whole general. But it wasn't always a clean sudden break.
Speaker #0
No, we saw that gradual change, the continued use of some older places for a time.
Speaker #1
And behind all these institutional shifts are, you know, human stories. The people who founded these places, the Paul Verlaine II, the plague victims, the staff struggling in horrific conditions.
Speaker #0
It really makes you think about how those big religious and political changes directly impacted the most vulnerable people on the ground, how care was actually delivered.
Speaker #1
Yeah, what does this shift tell us about the priorities of the time, the values?
Speaker #0
Maybe a final thought for our listeners. How might the consolidation under the Huppertal general, perhaps influenced by figures like Calvin, have changed the experience of being poor or sick in Geneva? Was it better, worse, just different? Something to ponder?
Speaker #1
Definitely. Comparing it to how other cities handled similar changes during the Reformation could be revealing, too.

About Really Calvin, is this an ideal life? A historical podcast.

Discover:

- The human side of John Calvin beyond the pulpit

- Power struggles and political intrigue in the Genevan council chambers

- How ordinary people navigated the tumultuous waters of religious change

- Surprising facts that rewrite our understanding of this pivotal period

We're passionate about bringing the history of Calvin's Geneva to life. Join the conversation and access exclusive documents, episode transcripts, and more on my website at https://geneva16th.org/ !

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

About Really Calvin, is this an ideal life? A historical podcast.

Discover:

- The human side of John Calvin beyond the pulpit

- Power struggles and political intrigue in the Genevan council chambers

- How ordinary people navigated the tumultuous waters of religious change

- Surprising facts that rewrite our understanding of this pivotal period

We're passionate about bringing the history of Calvin's Geneva to life. Join the conversation and access exclusive documents, episode transcripts, and more on my website at https://geneva16th.org/ !

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

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Transcription

Speaker #0
You know, when we think about Geneva around the time of the Reformation, 16th century, Calvin often comes to mind, right? Big debates.
Speaker #1
Yeah. The theological shifts.
Speaker #0
But what about like the everyday stuff, the city's institutions? Today, we're diving into Geneva's hospitals during that transition. It's, well, it's pretty fascinating.
Speaker #1
It really is. And often overlooked, I think. These places were changing dramatically. Our main guide here is Christophe Chazalon's work on the hospitals at this turning point.
Speaker #0
Right. Les hôpitaux de Genève au tournant de la Réformation.
Speaker #1
Exactly. And we'll bring in some context from broader medieval studies, too, like Dupar-Kerman, just to paint a picture.
Speaker #0
OK, so the mission today is to sort of untangle this history of the hospitals right before and during the early Reformation. It can get a bit confusing.
Speaker #1
It definitely can.
Speaker #0
So first off, the sheer number of hospitals. I pictured maybe one or two, you know.
Speaker #1
Yeah, that's a common thought. But the sources, like Chaponnier and Sode, they suggest... maybe two before the mid-1300s. Okay. But then, almost boom, three more pop up pretty much simultaneously, which probably points to, you know, population growth, maybe more foreigners coming in.
Speaker #0
And it didn't stop there, did it?
Speaker #1
No. In the 15th century, another two were founded, thanks to a generous citizen. Wow.
Speaker #0
So by 1535, right when things are really heating up with the Reformation?
Speaker #1
We're looking at at least nine hospitals under Geneva's control. Some earlier accounts said seven, but Chazalon finds more.
Speaker #0
Including a tenth one?
Speaker #1
Yes, the Opel de Temple, also called Saint-Jean de Jerusalem. It was down in Ovives.
Speaker #0
Okay, so way more than you'd initially guess.
Speaker #1
Definitely. And another thing to keep in mind, something Chazalon stresses is the names. They weren't fixed. Ah,
Speaker #0
that's bound to cause confusion.
Speaker #1
Exactly. A single hospital might have two, three, even more names, depending on the benefactor or the time period. It makes tracking them tricky.
Speaker #0
Right. So let's maybe look at a few key ones before everything got centralized into the Hopital General.
Speaker #1
Good idea. Where should we start? How about the Coupe de Notre-Dame de Pont-du-Rhône, also called Saint-Gervais?
Speaker #0
Okay, where was that one?
Speaker #1
En route de la Cité. Now, it was linked in name to the Chapelle de Notre-Dame de Pont-du-Rhône.
Speaker #0
The chapel.
Speaker #1
Right, they weren't attached. Often confused, though.
Speaker #0
And the chapel itself has a history?
Speaker #1
Oh, yeah. Possibly an old defensive tower, 11th, 13th century, near the bridge. Weird orientation, too, not facing east. Later, wealthy Italians, Florentines, revamped it, became the Chapelle de Florentin.
Speaker #0
But it didn't survive.
Speaker #1
No, torn down in 1541. City fortifications needed the space. Records show payments for demolition and all that.
Speaker #0
But the hospital itself, it wasn't right there. No,
Speaker #1
this is interesting. It was actually about 60 meters upstream from the famous chapel. Huh.
Speaker #0
So easy to get wrong.
Speaker #1
Very. And after the Reformation, it wasn't needed in the same way, so it was sold off in 1537.
Speaker #0
Okay. What about another big one? Maybe the Hôpital de Notre-Dame et Saint-Georges.
Speaker #1
Ah, yes. Also known as du Borgue de Four or de Saint-Joy or du Boulomier. See the name thing again? Uh-huh.
Speaker #0
Yeah, definitely. Where was this one?
Speaker #1
Rue Verdun, right next to the Sainte-Claire content. And this location is key.
Speaker #0
Why is that?
Speaker #1
Because in November 1535, this is the very spot that became the Hôpital General. Ah.
Speaker #0
Yeah. Okay. The seed of the central hospital.
Speaker #1
Precisely. Its multiple names likely reflect different founders or benefactors, like maybe Mathieu Clarié, Émance Bonjoir, Guillaume Boulomier. The council even had a say in appointing the Hospitallier the manager.
Speaker #0
And it grew over time.
Speaker #1
Yes. There was expansion around it in the mid-15th century, tied into the founding of that Sainte-Claire convent next door. Land donations, purchases. Okay.
Speaker #0
Any others we should quickly mention from before the big merge?
Speaker #1
Well, there was the Hôpital de Saint-Bernard-de-Montju, or Saint-Nicolas, on Rue Saint-Antoine. Its story pre-Reformation is fairly short, sold in 1536 to a peer Tito who built a house there.
Speaker #0
Got it. What about the Hôpital de l'Eucharistie? That one sounds intriguing. Lots of names, too.
Speaker #1
Yes. Also called the François de Versonnais de la Fête Dieu, des pauvres honteux or vergogneux, even Saint-Esprit sometimes, near the Reeve convent.
Speaker #0
And it had a specific purpose.
Speaker #1
It did. Founded in 1434 by François de Vercenay, specifically for the pauvre hontou.
Speaker #0
The shameful poor.
Speaker #1
Exactly. People from, you know, privileged backgrounds who'd fallen on hard times and were ashamed to beg. Managed by a merchant confraternity.
Speaker #0
That's just quite a nuanced approach to poverty, even back then.
Speaker #1
It really does. After the Reformation, the name shifted more towards pauvre vergogneux, but the concept remained for a while.
Speaker #0
So this idea of consolidating hospitals. It wasn't totally new in 1535.
Speaker #1
No, there were earlier attempts, apparently in 1508 and 1531, but they failed. It took the momentum of the Reformation, really.
Speaker #0
For the Grand Conseil to finally decide, OK, we need just two main ones.
Speaker #1
Right. The General Hospital using the Sainte-Claire convent buildings.
Speaker #0
Which was right next to the old Opadal de Notre-Dame et Saint-Georges we mentioned.
Speaker #1
Exactly. And then the plan was to keep Saint-Jacques for the passing poor travelers.
Speaker #0
So what happened to the Femmes-Virgonnes from the Opadal de l'Eucharistie? Did they move straight to the General Hospital?
Speaker #1
Well, that was the plan in 1536. But it seems they didn't move immediately. Oh. Records show they were still in their original hospital until at least January 1540. The transition wasn't always instant.
Speaker #0
So gradual changes.
Speaker #1
Yeah. Eventually, their hospital was sold in June 1541, and the remaining women were moved then.
Speaker #0
And what about the Opital de Saint-Antoine et Saint-Sebastien near La Madeleine, also founded by Versanet?
Speaker #1
That one, too, seems to have had a gradual phase-out. There's evidence of repairs happening in 1539-1540.
Speaker #0
So still in use after the main decision?
Speaker #1
Apparently. And people were even renting rooms there between 1539 and 1542. So not a sudden closure, more of a winding down.
Speaker #0
It paints a complex picture, doesn't it? All these different places, different purposes slowly being brought together.
Speaker #1
Absolutely. It shows the existing social fabric before the Reformation reshaped it.
Speaker #0
So late 1535, the big decision, create the Opital General, consolidate.
Speaker #1
Yes. And as we said, Saint-Jacques-du-Pont-d'Orone was initially earmarked for travelers, though Another hospital seems to have played that role, too, at least for a time.
Speaker #0
Which one was that?
Speaker #1
The Opel de la Trinité, which got renamed Opel de Saint-Esprit after the Reformation.
Speaker #0
Okay, tell me about that one.
Speaker #1
Founded around the mid-15th century, likely by the Conferie de la Saint-Trinité. Though there's a mention of an earlier donation back in 1360.
Speaker #0
But after the Reformation.
Speaker #1
It was renamed Saint-Esprit. And it definitely continued to function. We see records of people being housed there at the city's expense, like Jacques Chapuis.
Speaker #0
So maybe it took over that role for passing poor instead of Saint-Jacques.
Speaker #1
It seems possible, or at least shared it. They even leased out its chapel for a while before deciding in 1550 to renovate the chapel specifically to house passing poor.
Speaker #0
But it didn't last forever.
Speaker #1
No, it was sold off just two years later, in 1552.
Speaker #0
Why sell it if they'd just renovated part of it?
Speaker #1
Well, Cheslon floats the idea that maybe the city needed the money. Or perhaps the Hopital General needed more space itself for the growing number of poor. This is also the period after Calvin's influence on poor relief really solidifies.
Speaker #0
Ah, interesting link. So political and religious shifts influencing property decisions.
Speaker #1
Plausibly, yes.
Speaker #0
And Saint-Jacques-du-Pont-de-Rhône, the one originally planned for travelers, what happened there?
Speaker #1
That one had been around since 1359, near the old bridge gate. But despite the initial plan,
Speaker #0
It got repurposed.
Speaker #1
Completely. By 1543, it had become the Geneva Mint.
Speaker #0
The Mint. Okay, that's a definite change of function.
Speaker #1
Shows the city adapting its assets, doesn't it?
Speaker #0
It does. We should probably also mention the Bois de Toutoum.
Speaker #1
Ah, the alms box. Yes, crucial.
Speaker #0
This is the main channel for public charity, wasn't it? Collections and churches, etc.
Speaker #1
Exactly. Throughout the city and nearby areas. And importantly, after the Reformation, the properties and funds associated with this box likely got folded into supporting the new Hôpital General.
Speaker #0
So a key source of funding for the centralized system.
Speaker #1
Very likely. Right. And Hôpital General also took immediate responsibility for orphans and some illegitimate children. Centralization in action.
Speaker #0
Okay, one more major institution, the plague hospital. Hôpital de Notre-Dame de la Miséricorde.
Speaker #1
Or Hôpital de Peste Ferrée. A grim necessity. This one was relatively newer, late 15th century.
Speaker #0
Founded after a vow.
Speaker #1
Yes, the syndics, the city magistrates, vowed in 1469, during an outbreak, to build one out in Plain Palais.
Speaker #0
Was it always open?
Speaker #1
No, only activated when the plague hit. But after the Reformation, strict rules came in, like mandatory burials in its cemetery during outbreaks.
Speaker #0
Must have been incredibly difficult to run.
Speaker #1
Unimaginably. Staffing was a nightmare. Records show immense difficulty keeping hospitaliers, barbers who acted as surgeons, and even... ministers ministers were reluctant oh yes there's a famous uh dramatic episode where ministers basically refused to go citing various reasons even sebastian castellio was considered but didn't end up going wow they eventually ordained a minister specifically for the plague hospital pierre blanchet but he caught the plague almost immediately and died just horrific shows the sheer terror the plague inspired absolutely they had ordinances for running the place based on older models But managing it during an outbreak was just chaos and survival.
Speaker #0
A stark reminder of the realities of the time.
Speaker #1
Definitely puts things in perspective.
Speaker #0
Briefly, there were others too, right? Like the Temple Hospital.
Speaker #1
Yes, the Hôpital du Temple, or Saint-Jean-de-Jerusalem in Auviv. Origins with the Knights Templar, then the Hospitallers.
Speaker #0
Did it function as a hospital right up to the Reformation?
Speaker #1
Probably not really. By the 15th century, it seems it was more of a religious and administrative center for their lands. Its church outside the walls was destroyed in 1534 during political tensions.
Speaker #0
And after the Reformation?
Speaker #1
Disputes between Geneva and Bern over its properties and tithes. It wasn't really an active hospital then.
Speaker #0
And there was one in Marlios. Saint-Jacques-les-Majeurs is Saint-Antoine-l'Ermite.
Speaker #1
Right. Some thought its fate was unknown after 1539. But Chazlon shows the Geneva Council was still involved. ordering inspections in the 1540s. Its chapel fell into ruin later, but has actually been restored.
Speaker #0
Okay. And finally, the maladiers, leprosy hospitals.
Speaker #1
Yes, older institutions. Carouge and Chayne. Lepers had strict rules, confinement. After the Reformation, responsibility was split. Geneva managed Carouge. Bern managed Chayne.
Speaker #0
Were they full?
Speaker #1
Often kept closed, actually, to save money, as there weren't many lepers. There were disputes about admitting new ones in the late 1530s, early 1540s. Shows the practical difficulties.
Speaker #0
Right. So wrapping this up, it's clear the Reformation wasn't just about theology in Geneva. It profoundly reshaped the city's social welfare system.
Speaker #1
Absolutely. You go from this diverse, sometimes confusing landscape of many small, specialized institutions.
Speaker #0
Each with its own story, its own founders.
Speaker #1
To a much more centralized approach, focused on the whole general. But it wasn't always a clean sudden break.
Speaker #0
No, we saw that gradual change, the continued use of some older places for a time.
Speaker #1
And behind all these institutional shifts are, you know, human stories. The people who founded these places, the Paul Verlaine II, the plague victims, the staff struggling in horrific conditions.
Speaker #0
It really makes you think about how those big religious and political changes directly impacted the most vulnerable people on the ground, how care was actually delivered.
Speaker #1
Yeah, what does this shift tell us about the priorities of the time, the values?
Speaker #0
Maybe a final thought for our listeners. How might the consolidation under the Huppertal general, perhaps influenced by figures like Calvin, have changed the experience of being poor or sick in Geneva? Was it better, worse, just different? Something to ponder?
Speaker #1
Definitely. Comparing it to how other cities handled similar changes during the Reformation could be revealing, too.

About Really Calvin, is this an ideal life? A historical podcast.

Discover:

- The human side of John Calvin beyond the pulpit

- Power struggles and political intrigue in the Genevan council chambers

- How ordinary people navigated the tumultuous waters of religious change

- Surprising facts that rewrite our understanding of this pivotal period

We're passionate about bringing the history of Calvin's Geneva to life. Join the conversation and access exclusive documents, episode transcripts, and more on my website at https://geneva16th.org/ !

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

About Really Calvin, is this an ideal life? A historical podcast.

Discover:

- The human side of John Calvin beyond the pulpit

- Power struggles and political intrigue in the Genevan council chambers

- How ordinary people navigated the tumultuous waters of religious change

- Surprising facts that rewrite our understanding of this pivotal period

We're passionate about bringing the history of Calvin's Geneva to life. Join the conversation and access exclusive documents, episode transcripts, and more on my website at https://geneva16th.org/ !

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Description

***********

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Transcription

Speaker #0
You know, when we think about Geneva around the time of the Reformation, 16th century, Calvin often comes to mind, right? Big debates.
Speaker #1
Yeah. The theological shifts.
Speaker #0
But what about like the everyday stuff, the city's institutions? Today, we're diving into Geneva's hospitals during that transition. It's, well, it's pretty fascinating.
Speaker #1
It really is. And often overlooked, I think. These places were changing dramatically. Our main guide here is Christophe Chazalon's work on the hospitals at this turning point.
Speaker #0
Right. Les hôpitaux de Genève au tournant de la Réformation.
Speaker #1
Exactly. And we'll bring in some context from broader medieval studies, too, like Dupar-Kerman, just to paint a picture.
Speaker #0
OK, so the mission today is to sort of untangle this history of the hospitals right before and during the early Reformation. It can get a bit confusing.
Speaker #1
It definitely can.
Speaker #0
So first off, the sheer number of hospitals. I pictured maybe one or two, you know.
Speaker #1
Yeah, that's a common thought. But the sources, like Chaponnier and Sode, they suggest... maybe two before the mid-1300s. Okay. But then, almost boom, three more pop up pretty much simultaneously, which probably points to, you know, population growth, maybe more foreigners coming in.
Speaker #0
And it didn't stop there, did it?
Speaker #1
No. In the 15th century, another two were founded, thanks to a generous citizen. Wow.
Speaker #0
So by 1535, right when things are really heating up with the Reformation?
Speaker #1
We're looking at at least nine hospitals under Geneva's control. Some earlier accounts said seven, but Chazalon finds more.
Speaker #0
Including a tenth one?
Speaker #1
Yes, the Opel de Temple, also called Saint-Jean de Jerusalem. It was down in Ovives.
Speaker #0
Okay, so way more than you'd initially guess.
Speaker #1
Definitely. And another thing to keep in mind, something Chazalon stresses is the names. They weren't fixed. Ah,
Speaker #0
that's bound to cause confusion.
Speaker #1
Exactly. A single hospital might have two, three, even more names, depending on the benefactor or the time period. It makes tracking them tricky.
Speaker #0
Right. So let's maybe look at a few key ones before everything got centralized into the Hopital General.
Speaker #1
Good idea. Where should we start? How about the Coupe de Notre-Dame de Pont-du-Rhône, also called Saint-Gervais?
Speaker #0
Okay, where was that one?
Speaker #1
En route de la Cité. Now, it was linked in name to the Chapelle de Notre-Dame de Pont-du-Rhône.
Speaker #0
The chapel.
Speaker #1
Right, they weren't attached. Often confused, though.
Speaker #0
And the chapel itself has a history?
Speaker #1
Oh, yeah. Possibly an old defensive tower, 11th, 13th century, near the bridge. Weird orientation, too, not facing east. Later, wealthy Italians, Florentines, revamped it, became the Chapelle de Florentin.
Speaker #0
But it didn't survive.
Speaker #1
No, torn down in 1541. City fortifications needed the space. Records show payments for demolition and all that.
Speaker #0
But the hospital itself, it wasn't right there. No,
Speaker #1
this is interesting. It was actually about 60 meters upstream from the famous chapel. Huh.
Speaker #0
So easy to get wrong.
Speaker #1
Very. And after the Reformation, it wasn't needed in the same way, so it was sold off in 1537.
Speaker #0
Okay. What about another big one? Maybe the Hôpital de Notre-Dame et Saint-Georges.
Speaker #1
Ah, yes. Also known as du Borgue de Four or de Saint-Joy or du Boulomier. See the name thing again? Uh-huh.
Speaker #0
Yeah, definitely. Where was this one?
Speaker #1
Rue Verdun, right next to the Sainte-Claire content. And this location is key.
Speaker #0
Why is that?
Speaker #1
Because in November 1535, this is the very spot that became the Hôpital General. Ah.
Speaker #0
Yeah. Okay. The seed of the central hospital.
Speaker #1
Precisely. Its multiple names likely reflect different founders or benefactors, like maybe Mathieu Clarié, Émance Bonjoir, Guillaume Boulomier. The council even had a say in appointing the Hospitallier the manager.
Speaker #0
And it grew over time.
Speaker #1
Yes. There was expansion around it in the mid-15th century, tied into the founding of that Sainte-Claire convent next door. Land donations, purchases. Okay.
Speaker #0
Any others we should quickly mention from before the big merge?
Speaker #1
Well, there was the Hôpital de Saint-Bernard-de-Montju, or Saint-Nicolas, on Rue Saint-Antoine. Its story pre-Reformation is fairly short, sold in 1536 to a peer Tito who built a house there.
Speaker #0
Got it. What about the Hôpital de l'Eucharistie? That one sounds intriguing. Lots of names, too.
Speaker #1
Yes. Also called the François de Versonnais de la Fête Dieu, des pauvres honteux or vergogneux, even Saint-Esprit sometimes, near the Reeve convent.
Speaker #0
And it had a specific purpose.
Speaker #1
It did. Founded in 1434 by François de Vercenay, specifically for the pauvre hontou.
Speaker #0
The shameful poor.
Speaker #1
Exactly. People from, you know, privileged backgrounds who'd fallen on hard times and were ashamed to beg. Managed by a merchant confraternity.
Speaker #0
That's just quite a nuanced approach to poverty, even back then.
Speaker #1
It really does. After the Reformation, the name shifted more towards pauvre vergogneux, but the concept remained for a while.
Speaker #0
So this idea of consolidating hospitals. It wasn't totally new in 1535.
Speaker #1
No, there were earlier attempts, apparently in 1508 and 1531, but they failed. It took the momentum of the Reformation, really.
Speaker #0
For the Grand Conseil to finally decide, OK, we need just two main ones.
Speaker #1
Right. The General Hospital using the Sainte-Claire convent buildings.
Speaker #0
Which was right next to the old Opadal de Notre-Dame et Saint-Georges we mentioned.
Speaker #1
Exactly. And then the plan was to keep Saint-Jacques for the passing poor travelers.
Speaker #0
So what happened to the Femmes-Virgonnes from the Opadal de l'Eucharistie? Did they move straight to the General Hospital?
Speaker #1
Well, that was the plan in 1536. But it seems they didn't move immediately. Oh. Records show they were still in their original hospital until at least January 1540. The transition wasn't always instant.
Speaker #0
So gradual changes.
Speaker #1
Yeah. Eventually, their hospital was sold in June 1541, and the remaining women were moved then.
Speaker #0
And what about the Opital de Saint-Antoine et Saint-Sebastien near La Madeleine, also founded by Versanet?
Speaker #1
That one, too, seems to have had a gradual phase-out. There's evidence of repairs happening in 1539-1540.
Speaker #0
So still in use after the main decision?
Speaker #1
Apparently. And people were even renting rooms there between 1539 and 1542. So not a sudden closure, more of a winding down.
Speaker #0
It paints a complex picture, doesn't it? All these different places, different purposes slowly being brought together.
Speaker #1
Absolutely. It shows the existing social fabric before the Reformation reshaped it.
Speaker #0
So late 1535, the big decision, create the Opital General, consolidate.
Speaker #1
Yes. And as we said, Saint-Jacques-du-Pont-d'Orone was initially earmarked for travelers, though Another hospital seems to have played that role, too, at least for a time.
Speaker #0
Which one was that?
Speaker #1
The Opel de la Trinité, which got renamed Opel de Saint-Esprit after the Reformation.
Speaker #0
Okay, tell me about that one.
Speaker #1
Founded around the mid-15th century, likely by the Conferie de la Saint-Trinité. Though there's a mention of an earlier donation back in 1360.
Speaker #0
But after the Reformation.
Speaker #1
It was renamed Saint-Esprit. And it definitely continued to function. We see records of people being housed there at the city's expense, like Jacques Chapuis.
Speaker #0
So maybe it took over that role for passing poor instead of Saint-Jacques.
Speaker #1
It seems possible, or at least shared it. They even leased out its chapel for a while before deciding in 1550 to renovate the chapel specifically to house passing poor.
Speaker #0
But it didn't last forever.
Speaker #1
No, it was sold off just two years later, in 1552.
Speaker #0
Why sell it if they'd just renovated part of it?
Speaker #1
Well, Cheslon floats the idea that maybe the city needed the money. Or perhaps the Hopital General needed more space itself for the growing number of poor. This is also the period after Calvin's influence on poor relief really solidifies.
Speaker #0
Ah, interesting link. So political and religious shifts influencing property decisions.
Speaker #1
Plausibly, yes.
Speaker #0
And Saint-Jacques-du-Pont-de-Rhône, the one originally planned for travelers, what happened there?
Speaker #1
That one had been around since 1359, near the old bridge gate. But despite the initial plan,
Speaker #0
It got repurposed.
Speaker #1
Completely. By 1543, it had become the Geneva Mint.
Speaker #0
The Mint. Okay, that's a definite change of function.
Speaker #1
Shows the city adapting its assets, doesn't it?
Speaker #0
It does. We should probably also mention the Bois de Toutoum.
Speaker #1
Ah, the alms box. Yes, crucial.
Speaker #0
This is the main channel for public charity, wasn't it? Collections and churches, etc.
Speaker #1
Exactly. Throughout the city and nearby areas. And importantly, after the Reformation, the properties and funds associated with this box likely got folded into supporting the new Hôpital General.
Speaker #0
So a key source of funding for the centralized system.
Speaker #1
Very likely. Right. And Hôpital General also took immediate responsibility for orphans and some illegitimate children. Centralization in action.
Speaker #0
Okay, one more major institution, the plague hospital. Hôpital de Notre-Dame de la Miséricorde.
Speaker #1
Or Hôpital de Peste Ferrée. A grim necessity. This one was relatively newer, late 15th century.
Speaker #0
Founded after a vow.
Speaker #1
Yes, the syndics, the city magistrates, vowed in 1469, during an outbreak, to build one out in Plain Palais.
Speaker #0
Was it always open?
Speaker #1
No, only activated when the plague hit. But after the Reformation, strict rules came in, like mandatory burials in its cemetery during outbreaks.
Speaker #0
Must have been incredibly difficult to run.
Speaker #1
Unimaginably. Staffing was a nightmare. Records show immense difficulty keeping hospitaliers, barbers who acted as surgeons, and even... ministers ministers were reluctant oh yes there's a famous uh dramatic episode where ministers basically refused to go citing various reasons even sebastian castellio was considered but didn't end up going wow they eventually ordained a minister specifically for the plague hospital pierre blanchet but he caught the plague almost immediately and died just horrific shows the sheer terror the plague inspired absolutely they had ordinances for running the place based on older models But managing it during an outbreak was just chaos and survival.
Speaker #0
A stark reminder of the realities of the time.
Speaker #1
Definitely puts things in perspective.
Speaker #0
Briefly, there were others too, right? Like the Temple Hospital.
Speaker #1
Yes, the Hôpital du Temple, or Saint-Jean-de-Jerusalem in Auviv. Origins with the Knights Templar, then the Hospitallers.
Speaker #0
Did it function as a hospital right up to the Reformation?
Speaker #1
Probably not really. By the 15th century, it seems it was more of a religious and administrative center for their lands. Its church outside the walls was destroyed in 1534 during political tensions.
Speaker #0
And after the Reformation?
Speaker #1
Disputes between Geneva and Bern over its properties and tithes. It wasn't really an active hospital then.
Speaker #0
And there was one in Marlios. Saint-Jacques-les-Majeurs is Saint-Antoine-l'Ermite.
Speaker #1
Right. Some thought its fate was unknown after 1539. But Chazlon shows the Geneva Council was still involved. ordering inspections in the 1540s. Its chapel fell into ruin later, but has actually been restored.
Speaker #0
Okay. And finally, the maladiers, leprosy hospitals.
Speaker #1
Yes, older institutions. Carouge and Chayne. Lepers had strict rules, confinement. After the Reformation, responsibility was split. Geneva managed Carouge. Bern managed Chayne.
Speaker #0
Were they full?
Speaker #1
Often kept closed, actually, to save money, as there weren't many lepers. There were disputes about admitting new ones in the late 1530s, early 1540s. Shows the practical difficulties.
Speaker #0
Right. So wrapping this up, it's clear the Reformation wasn't just about theology in Geneva. It profoundly reshaped the city's social welfare system.
Speaker #1
Absolutely. You go from this diverse, sometimes confusing landscape of many small, specialized institutions.
Speaker #0
Each with its own story, its own founders.
Speaker #1
To a much more centralized approach, focused on the whole general. But it wasn't always a clean sudden break.
Speaker #0
No, we saw that gradual change, the continued use of some older places for a time.
Speaker #1
And behind all these institutional shifts are, you know, human stories. The people who founded these places, the Paul Verlaine II, the plague victims, the staff struggling in horrific conditions.
Speaker #0
It really makes you think about how those big religious and political changes directly impacted the most vulnerable people on the ground, how care was actually delivered.
Speaker #1
Yeah, what does this shift tell us about the priorities of the time, the values?
Speaker #0
Maybe a final thought for our listeners. How might the consolidation under the Huppertal general, perhaps influenced by figures like Calvin, have changed the experience of being poor or sick in Geneva? Was it better, worse, just different? Something to ponder?
Speaker #1
Definitely. Comparing it to how other cities handled similar changes during the Reformation could be revealing, too.

About Really Calvin, is this an ideal life? A historical podcast.

Discover:

- The human side of John Calvin beyond the pulpit

- Power struggles and political intrigue in the Genevan council chambers

- How ordinary people navigated the tumultuous waters of religious change

- Surprising facts that rewrite our understanding of this pivotal period

We're passionate about bringing the history of Calvin's Geneva to life. Join the conversation and access exclusive documents, episode transcripts, and more on my website at https://geneva16th.org/ !

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

About Really Calvin, is this an ideal life? A historical podcast.

Discover:

- The human side of John Calvin beyond the pulpit

- Power struggles and political intrigue in the Genevan council chambers

- How ordinary people navigated the tumultuous waters of religious change

- Surprising facts that rewrite our understanding of this pivotal period

We're passionate about bringing the history of Calvin's Geneva to life. Join the conversation and access exclusive documents, episode transcripts, and more on my website at https://geneva16th.org/ !

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

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